Origins: Lover's Ghost

Subject: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From:
Date: 26 May 97 - 07:45 AM

It's a sad lovesong about a couple and a cock  If you know the lyrics please help me. Thank you!

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 26 May 97 - 11:59 AM

Assuming the cock had feathers, there are lots of such songs. Try the database and if its not there, come back with more clues

Regards

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: LaMarca
Date: 26 May 97 - 02:14 PM

I think the song you're looking for is called "The Grey Cock". It's and English night-visiting song, in which the young man's true love lets him into her chamber, kisses him, asks why his lips are so cold. He informs her that he's dead; she says, "Okay, then we don't have much time left (another one of them traditional necrophilia songs). As ghosts must leave the earth at break of day, the young woman asks the cock not to crow too soon. The cock betrays them by crowing "full three hours early" in some versions, and the lover's ghost must leave.

There's two versions in the DT database, but not the really haunting one that starts:

"Awake, awake, my own true lover,
The burning Thames I've had to cross,
I will be guided without a stumble,
Into the arms that I love best."

I don't quite have the words right; this version was sung by Martin Carthy, and stolen by his daughter Liza on their first Waterson:Carthy album.

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 27 May 97 - 04:42 AM

Speaking of Eliza Carthy: her version of "Claudy Banks" on the latest Waterson/Carthy CD is magnificent. Air used sounds like a "Banks of the Nile" variant.

In fact, there are several tracks there that neatly subvert one's view of a song - and help put off the urge to "ditch" songs, as discussed in another thread!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: LaMarca
Date: 28 May 97 - 02:11 PM

Martin, Waterson/Carthy's "Claudy Banks" sounds like it's set to a variant of the "Dives and Lazarus/Star of the County Down" tune to me. Is "Banks of the Nile" also set to that tune?

I think I liked the first Waterson/Carthy album a little better than the new one, though I like Norma Waterson's version of "Flash Company" a lot.

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: Martin
Date: 29 May 97 - 05:33 AM

LaMarca

Yes I think it is! Star of the County Down/Flower of Sweet Strabane/Banks of the Nile ......

I once heard someone at a singing festival remark that there were only four tunes in the Ulster singing tradition - and three of them were versions of the Star of the County Down!

Haven't heard the first album. To me, the main problem with the second is not the singing - but the fiddle! (We Irish are very fussy about fiddles!)

Regards

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: LaMarca
Date: 29 May 97 - 01:12 PM

Martin, Yesterday our issue of "Sing Out!", an American folk magazine came in the mail, with a feature article on Eliza Carthy (good timing). She said that for the second album she was trying to concentrate on tunes that were English. By the time people started getting interested in English traditional fiddling, many of the traditional players were quite elderly, so there isn't such a wealth of particularly English fiddle styles that have been passed down or collected, as there are for the Irish and Scottish styles. Therefore, she's kind of making it up as she goes along... I don't know if she's been interviewed in Folk Roots or one of the other UK folk magazines lately. If you want to E-mail me your postal address, I'll send you a copy of the article (if you don't have access to Sing Out! in Ireland- I guess I've always assumed you live on the Other Side!).

[e-mail]

Regards, Mary

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: Ran Coleman
Date: 02 Jun 97 - 10:12 PM

Don't overlook Ian & Sylvia's version entitled "The Ghost Lover":

When will I see you, my love, she cried, When will I see you again?

When little fishes fly and the seas they do run dry And the hard rocks do melt with the sun.

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From:
Date: 26 Jul 98 - 12:08 PM

Does anyone know where I can find the music and the lyrics to the version of "Claudy Banks" used by Gustav Holst in his military band song. Second Suite in F for Military Band ? Please respond to my e-mail address if you can help me. Thank you!

 Joseph Romano                            __________
  Director of Bands                       /          \
  General Douglas MacArthur High School _|   o    o   |_
  Levittown, New York                  |_      <       _|
                                         |   \____/   |
                                          \__________/

HTML line breaks & preformat commands added. --JoeClone, 6-May-02.

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: Martin Ryan.
Date: 26 Jul 98 - 06:13 PM

"Claudy Banks" for military band! Now I've heard everything"! Brilliant!

Regards

Subject: Lyr Add: THE GREY COCK or THE LOVER'S GHOST
From: JB3
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 06:09 AM

The version of "The Grey Cock" or "The Lover's Ghost" sung by Eliza Carthy can be found in "The Peguin Book of English Folk Songs" edited by Ralph Vaughan Williams and A. L. Lloyd.

sung by Mrs. Cecilia Costello, Birmingham 1951

I must be going no longer staying,
The burning Thames I have to cross
I must be guided without a stumble
Into the arms of my dear lass

When he came to his true love's window
He knelt down gently on a stone
And it's through a pane he whispered slowly
It's my dear girl are you alone?

She rose her head from her down-soft pillow
And snowy were her milk-white breasts
Saying: Who's there, who's there at my bedroom window
Disturbing me from my long night's rest?

Oh, I'm your lover and don't discover
I pray you rise, love, and let me in
For I am fatigued from my long night's journey
Besides I am wet into the skin.

Now this young girl rose and put on her clothing
She quickly let her own true love in
Oh they kissed, shook hands and embraced together
Till that long night was near an end

O Willie dear, O dearest Willie
Where is that colour you'd some time ago?
O Mary dear, the grave has changed me
I'm but the ghost of your Willie O.

Then O cock, O cock, O handsome cockerel,
I pray you not crow until it is day
And your wings I'll make of the very first beaten gold
And your neck I'll make of the silver grey

But the cock it crew and it crew so fully
It crew three hours before it was day
And before it was day, my love had to leave me
Not by the light of the moon or the light of day

Then it's Willie dear, O dearest Willie,
Whenever shall I see you again?
When the fish they fly love, and the sea runs dry, love
And the rocks they melt in the heat of the sun

(Eliza has a few words different, improvements, really. The tune is the same.)

Cecil Sharp collected a version of the song in 1916, at Hot Springs N.C., sung by Mrs. Jane Gentry. Still called "The Grey Cock" (#36 in his collection), but lacking the supernatural element, it's simply a plea for the cock not to crow too soon, as it would mean the lovers' parting.

All on one summer's evening when the fever were a-dawning
I heard a fair maid make a mourn.
She was a-weeping for her father and a-greiving for her mother
and a-thinking all on her true love John.
At last Johnny came and he found the doors all shut
And he ding-led so low at the ring
Then this fair maid she rose and she hurried on her clothes
To make haste to let Johnny come in.

Al around the waist he caught her and unto the bed he brought her
And they lay there talking awhile.
She says: O you feathered fowls, you pretty feathered fowls,
Don't you crow till 'tis almost day
And your comb it shall be of the pure ivory
And your wings of the bright silver-grey.
But he a-being young, he crowed very soon
He crowed two long hours before day
And she sent her love away, for she thought 'twas almost day
But 'twas all by the light of the moon.

It's when will you be back, dear Johnny, she said,
When will you come back and see me?
When the seventh moon is done and past and shine on yonder lea
And you know that will never be
What a foolish girl I was when I thought that he was true As the rocks that grow to the ground
But since I do find he has altered in his mind
It is better to live single than bound.

Another fragment of this song is "Fly Up My Cock", which I believe was recorded by Maddy Prior, but I forget just where. This is my recollection of the lyrics:

Fly up my cock, you're my well-feathered cock
But don't cry til the break of day
And your red rosy comb shall be of the beaten gold
And your neck of the silvery grey

My cock, he flew up and my cock, he flew down
But he crowed one hour too soon
This young man arose and he hurried on his clothes
But it was all by the light of the moon

When will you come back, my dear Jimmie, she said
For to wed with a gay gold ring
Seven moons said he shining on yonder lea
And the sky to yield up no more rain

For now I do see all the contrary way
A man is forced to live single or be bound.

Cheers,

June

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 12:13 PM

G'day,
"The Lover's Ghost/The Grey Cock/Saw You My Father" is Child Ballad #248. The tunes listed in Bronson seem to be different from the one in "The Peguin Book of English Folk Songs" which varies its time signature between 3/2 and 4/4, making it difficult to post here in MIDItext form.

Maddy Prior's "Fly Up My Cock" is on the album "Summer Solstice" which she and Tim Hart recorded after Steeleye Span's first album.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: Lyr Add: LOVER'S GHOST
From: HelenII
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 04:31 AM

I know another version under that name, same theme of course, with the lyrics as follows:

Oh you´re welcome home again
Said the young man to his love
I have waited for many a night and day
You look tired and you´re pale
Said the young man to his love
You shall never again go away

I must go away again when the little cock will crow
For here they will not let me stay
Oh but if I had my way
Said the young man to his love
This night would be never ever day

Oh my pretty pretty cock
Oh my handsome little cock
I pray you never crow before the day
And your comb shall be made
Of the finest beaten gold
And your wings of the silver so grey

But oh this little cock, this handsome little cock
He crew out a full hour too soon
Oh my darling she said, it is time for us to part
It is now the going down of the moon

Then where is your bed
My dearest dear? he said
And where are your fine holland sheets?
And where are your waiting maids,
Dearest dear? He said, to wait upon you
While you are asleep

The clay is my bed, my dearest dear she said
The shroud is my fine holland sheet
And the worms and the creeping things
Are me waiting maids to wait upon me
While I am asleep

Best,
HelenII

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: Bruce O.
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 04:15 PM

Re: JB3's post above. Cecelia Costello sings "The Lover's Ghost" (The Grey Cock) on a 33 1/3 phono record, Leader LEE 4054. There she has another verse (9th of 10), preceding the last above:

When she saw her love disappearing
The tears down her pale cheeks in streams did flow
He said, Weep no more for me, dear Mary
I am no more your Willie O.

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From:
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 07:43 PM

The first one quoted by Bruce O. I have sung by Chris Foster on All Things In Common.

There is an eastern Canadian version, from the Helen Creighton collection I think, but I haven't heard it sung in years. I think it is called The Ghostly Lover, or something like that, and begins "Here's a health unto all true lovers", as a great many songs do.:)

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From:
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 08:01 PM

Sorry, I meant JB3's posting.

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From:
Date: 29 Jul 98 - 08:33 PM

The Eliza Carthy-type version has also been recorded by Ewan Maccoll on f.i. "The Real Maccoll". Sophie

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From:
Date: 05 May 02 - 06:34 AM

thankyou so much for the useful replies on this I appreciate it Jenny Dunbar.

Subject: RE: Lover's Ghost Lyrics
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 10:34 AM

I have a tune but no reference to lyrics. Is a tune still required?

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From:
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:48 AM

brilliant--i used to sing "ghost lover" with ian and sylvia back in early '60's--glad to find so much research going on. this will be very useful for us Hartt Kodaly students(grads) putting folksong back in the classroom in truest form possible. Thought their version would show up in a Creighton collection but no luck--anybody find it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:52 AM

Johnny, he promised to marry her
She fears he's with some fair one and gone
There's something that ails him and she don't know what it is
And she's weary of laying alone

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: Maija
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 11:54 AM

Does anyone know a(n accessible) recording of the version of Lover's Ghost of the Version posted above that goes "Oh, you're welcome home again"?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From:
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 12:15 PM

great--seems that lots of us sing this nowadays--but was it ever in print with an authorization or broadsided as unknown? Does anyone have a Creighton collection with either versions? Sylvia did some original source work but was mum about this tune!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: GUEST,Scotus
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 12:46 PM

Duncan Williamson sings a pretty old version of 'Sweet William's Ghost' which retains all the supernatural elements. Hamish Henderson recorded a later version he called 'The Night Visiting Song' at Blairgowrie in Perthshire (he was accompanied by Kenneth Goldstein) in the the mid 1950s. This version has lost most of the supernatural stuff but still retains the reference to leaving before the cock crows. An even later version to a more 'up-beat' tune has very similar words to the Blairgowrie one but only a passing reference to the cock ("the cocks were crowing, the birds were whistling")- this version is called 'I'm a Rover' and is just basically a drinking song (or maybe a wishful thinking song). Duncan's version can be found on a cassette caled 'Put Another Log on the Fire'and the other two on CDs by me - 'Half Ower Half Ower tae Aberdour' on the Tradition Bearers label and 'O Lassie, Lassie' on Greentrax.

Jack

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: GUEST,BETSY
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:00 PM

To HelenII and Maiia undoubtedly the first version of THAT song I heard , and still the best version is sang by Vin Garbutt - whether its on C.D or not check here . It was on one of his L.P's but I cannot remember which

http://www.vingarbutt.com

Best o' luck

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:25 PM

Maija, I have a recording of Niamh Parsons singing that version, beautifully. Not to hand, but I'll find out which recording for you.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 05:00 PM

Maija, it's called
Lover's Ghost on Niamh Parsons' recording Loosely Connected
click here for details and samples to listen to, on amazon.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: Maija
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 03:16 AM

@Betsy and Noreen: cheers a lot! Found both versions (the Vin Garbutt one was available for download as an mp3) - good to hear the song again :)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: GUEST,BETSY
Date: 02 Dec 04 - 02:54 PM

Maija,
Wait 'til you hear Garbutt sing it on stage .It's unbelievably brilliant .

Subject: Lyr Add: THE LOVER'S GHOST, or THE LITTLE FISHES
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Oct 13 - 05:59 PM

THE LOVER'S GHOST, or THE LITTLE FISHES
Karpeles MSS., Newfoundland 1929.

1
She said unto her mamma, she said unto her dada:
There's something the matter with me
There's something the matter and I don't know what it is
And I'm weary from lying alone.
2
John he came there at the very hour appointed,
He tapped at the window so gay.
This fair maid arose and she hurried on her clothes
And let her true love John in.
3
She took him by the hand and on the bed she laid him,
Felt he was colder than clay.
If I had my wish and my wish it would be so,
This long night would never be morn.
4
Crow up, crow up, my little bird,
And don't crow before it is day
And your cage shall be made of the glittering gold, she says,
And your doors of the silver so gay.
5
Where is your soft bed of down, my love, she cries,
And where is your white Holland sheet,
And where is the fair maid that watches on you
While you are taking your long silent sleep.
6
The sand is my soft bed of down, my love he cried,
The sea is my white Holland sheet,
And long hungry worms will feed off of me
While I'm taking my long silent sleep.
7
O when will I see you, my love, she cries,
And when will I see you again?
When the little fishes flies and the seas they do run dry
And the hard rocks they melt with the sun.

Bronson, 1976, The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular Ballads, Child No. 248, The Grey Cock, or, Saw You My Father?, p. 439, Princeton University Press.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 10:40 PM

needs some cleanup

http://www.petrvacl.cz/zpevnik/ps.php?id=361&ak=0

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lover's Ghost
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 31 Oct 20 - 07:46 AM

Lovely memory of hearing Vin sing his version, Thanks Pete, both of you alas RIP.
Can I suggest Chris Manners - '13th night', new lover's ghost writ by him but haunting melody. 99YRCD02.
Happy Halloween