comedy songs - why do they get boring?

Subject: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Andy7
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 11:57 AM

Comedy songs hold a vital place in the folk music canon; an essential lighthearted relief from the tales of doom relayed by so many folk songs.

And yet ... if we hear the same comedy song too frequently, it becomes boring. We need a bit of a break in between its outings.

Why is that, I wonder? Why can we enjoy a fine ballad, for example, being sung over and over in a short space of time, but not an equally good comedy song?

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 12:10 PM

Merely my opinion...

Like good jokes, over familiarity with punchlines leads to indifference...

Comedy songs too often don't have interesting enough melodies to be of value
long after the joke has worn thin...


someone else can take over now.. I need to go to the bog...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Andy7
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 12:20 PM

Yes, but we also know by heart how the popular ballad is going to end!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Pfr on the bog via wireless
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 12:34 PM

Well, to be honest I'll get bored with any song of any kind,
if I heard it too often...

For instance, I still love the Beatles
but can only listen to them with refreshed ears,
after a few years of abstinence...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 12:41 PM

I think it's to do with our constant demand for the 'new' and impatience with anything we've heard before.

I remember at the start of the revival, we laughed repeatedly at the simple joke of such as 'Geordie's lost his penker'and indeed maybe enjoyed the fairly simple punch line better every time, week after week!


it simply doesn't work in 2019, times have changed- we were a lot easier to please in days gone by, but is it better now?

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 12:43 PM

There are some wonderful comedy songs that don't get boring. Yip Harburg's
"Lydia the Tattooed Lady" for example. Tom Lehrer's songs for another.W.S.Gilbert's lyrics are not boring for example, "The Nightmare Song" from Iolanthe.

It depends on what's called a comedy song. For example, "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ya'"
was originally intended as a humorous song. "Finnegan's Wake" is sung a great deal.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 12:46 PM

well folk music comedy songs - the humour tends to be very arch. and ironically enough delivering stuff like that calls for a sort of gravitas.

also i think maybe they are the songs which attract beginners - and perhaps artists who are finding themselves funny don't tend to be good interpreters.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Reinhard
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:09 PM

I think comedy lives from the surprise in the punch line, and if you know it by heart it isn't that funny anymore. On the other hand, ballads grow on me with familiarity.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:13 PM

Sensory fatigue + selective memory.

Olfactory fatigue is when you get "used to" a smell and don't notice it anymore until you leave the room for awhile and then come back.

Our brains are continually making way for new and interesting sensory input by ignoring or setting aside the present. If one knows the punchline it's old news. But it can work on a new audience or as an "oldie" if it's been awhile.

Including hormones, mobile phones are one of the most powerful drug delivery systems ever invented. Attention span is now measured in seconds.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: G-Force
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 01:46 PM

Perhaps comedy songs should all start with the line 'Stop me if you've heard it...'.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: meself
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 02:08 PM

My question is just the opposite: why do comedy song NOT get boring - to most people?

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 04:08 PM

"...why do comedy song NOT get boring - to most people?"

You are being held prisoner in a dinner theater somewhere in suburban Tennessee?

Risk/reward: Really funny to you means more often for you but I'd avoid anyone who put anything on 24/7 loop.

Comedy is the novelty genre.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 05:41 PM

Comedy is much more complex than what is being suggested here. It appeals in different ways to different people and can be dependent on the occasion and the company involved. It doesn't have to be innovative. Lots of people find things funny over and over again, and there are other factors involved, audience participation for one. If you're only hearing a funny monologue with lots of gags once a week or once a month it can still entertain.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 06:49 PM

Comedy moves differently but it's not unique. How often can I binge GoT 1-7? Ooooooor did I have to Google "GoT" just to understand the question?

On a global scale, the number one answer for any one thing is... "don't know, don't care." The overall percentage only goes up with time.

Obviously, how long before one may be entertained again (and again &c) is a direct function of how entertained, or not, one was on the first go round (&2nd-3rd &c.) It's a moving target, to say the least.

If you simply hated it with a burning passion the first time you'll 'probably' feel the same on repeat but not absolutely, positively, necessarily so.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 07:03 PM

When I was 17 I found an ancient dusty text book in the college library
called something like "A Scientific Analysis of Comedy"..

I don't remember there being anything funny in it at all,
but I walked around with it in my hand for a while trying to look more clever...

I also found a book on constructing trench warfare latrines,
that was a better read, aso I wrote a liberal studies essay on it...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 07:04 PM

I agree that we all differ, in that some of us enjoy hearing the same gag, comic song (such as the Bantam Cock) or comedy sketch (the parrot sketch) over and over again, but others will not find something funny once they have heard it before and have already experienced the surprise ending. To my mind, comic songs have a limited shelf life, in that once everyone has heard it, you have to park it until later on when audiences might have changed or forgotten it and the ending.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 09:22 PM

I suppose the age of the great folk comedians is over.

Acts like Jasper Carrot , Billy Connolly, Mike Harding, Brownsville Banned, Bob Williamson, Joe Stead....they were edgy in an age when folk music to most people was The Corries and The Spinners.

Alongside them were raconteur/musicians Alex Campbell, Derek Brimstone, Cosmotheka, Bernard Wrigley, Jake Thackeray. Artists presenting quite serious music in a light hearted way - entertaining....but not primarilly high powered comics. You can still see elements of this approach in Ralph MacTell's presentation

It was an age of professional entertainers. Men who honed their 'schtick' and performed for fees, several times a week, in small venues up and down England.

They were abused as 'piss artists'. by the serious curators of the tradition, but once they had gone - the folk clubs were gone.

When you are sitting in some dire singers club listening to someone who expects you to find Bread and Cheese or The Mole Catcher, read from an exercise book, amusing. Shed a tear for the skills that have been lost and an age gone forever.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 02:29 AM

There aren't that many 'comedy' songs in the tradition, but there are a great number of humourous ones - the former rely on a punch line, and have little else, but the genuinely humourous ones are based on cleverness and trickery, and quite often have wider implications - a servant getting the better of his master, a 'weaker' woman, outwitting a dominant man, a city slicker being floored by a local 'bumkin'
Probably, the most dominant and entertaining of the humourous songs are the ballads - 'King John and the Bishop', 'The Duke of Atholl's Nurse', 'Long Johnny Moore'.
Probably the longest surviving of these, 'Get up and Bar the Door', appears in song and story and dates back to Ancient Egypt, and was still to be found among Irish Travellers in thwe 1970s as a cante-fable

12 - Go for the Water (Story - Aarne-Thompson 1351:The Silence Wager)   
Mikeen McCarthy, Cahersiveen, Kerry
There was a brother and sister one time, they were back in the West of Kerry altogether, oh, and a very remote place altogether now. So the water was that far away from them that they used always be grumbling and grousing, the two of them, now, which of them’d go for the water. So they’d always come to the decision anyway, that they’d have their little couple of verses and who’d ever stop first, they’d have to go for the water. So, they’d sit at both sides of the fire, anyway, and there was two little hobs that time, there used be no chairs, only two hobs, and one’d be sitting at one side and the other at the other side and maybe Jack’d have a wee dúidín (doodeen), d’you know, that’s what they used call a little clay pipe (te). And Jack’d say:
(Sung)
Oren hum dum di deedle o de doo rum day,
Racks fol de voedleen the vo vo vee.

So now it would go over to Mary:
Oren him iren ooren hun the roo ry ray,
Racks fol de voedleen the vo vo vee.

So back to Jack again:
Oren him iren ooren hum the roo ry ray,
Rack fol de voedleen the vo vo vee.

So, they’d keep on like that maybe, from the start, from morning, maybe until night, and who’d ever stop he’d have to go for the water.
So, there was an old man from Tralee, anyway, and he was driving a horse and sidecar, ‘twas… they’d be calling it a taxi now. He’d come on with his horse and sidecar, maybe from a railway station or someplace and they’d hire him to drive him back to the west of Dingle. So, bejay, he lost his way, anyway. So ‘twas the only house now for another four or five miles. So in he goes anyway, to enquire what road he’d to take, anyway, and when he landed inside the door, he said: "How do I get to Ballyferriter from here?" And Mary said:

(Sung verse)

So over he went, he said, "What’s wrong with that one, she must be mad or something", and over to the old man. He said, "How do I get to Ballyferriter from here?"

(Sung verse)

So he just finished a verse and he go back over to Mary and he was getting the same results off of Mary; back to Jack. So the old man, he couldn’t take a chance to go off without getting the information where the place was, so he catches a hold of Mary and started tearing Mary round the place. "Show me the road to Ballyferriter", he go, and he shaking and pushing her and pull her and everything:

(Sung verse)

And he kept pulling her and pulling her and tearing her anyway, round the place, and he kept pucking her and everything.
"Oh, Jack," says she, "will you save me?"
"Oh, I will, Mary," he said, "but you’ll have to go for the water now."

Mikeen’s story, set in his own native Kerry, is widely travelled, both as a tale and as a ballad. A version from India, entitled The Farmer, his Wife and the Open Door is described as claiming ‘the highest possible antiquity’. It is also included, as part of a longer story, in Straparola’s Most Delectable Nights (Venice 1553). In Britain it is popular in ballad form, best known in Scotland as Get Up and Bar the Door and in England as John Blunt.
Mikeen has a large repertoire of stories, at least half a dozen of them having Jack and Mary as hero and heroine.
Ref: Folk Tales of All Nations, F H Lee, George G Harrap & Co, 1931.

For me, these 'humourous' songs never lose their edge, while the 'joke' ones pale after a few hearings
In my opinion, the genuinely 'comic' song possibly originate from outside the traditional communities and have little more significance than producing a quick 'laugh'
Quite often the teller feels the need to 'act them out' with gestures and funny-faces
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 02:50 AM

Humour 'tis a funny thing.

Humour relies on surprise. The logic that tells you the premise is wrong, and the logic that tells you there is a neatness to make it right. If you already know the two logics before the punchline there is no surprise.

An exception to this was Gerrard Hoffnung's "Respected Sir Letter" (Paddy's Sick Note - put to music by Pat Cooksey) which I think relies on empathy. We feel the bricklayers pain, but we don't suffer pain. Conflict in logic again though, so similar cerebral mechanisms..

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 03:00 AM

'Dates back to Ancient Egypt'. Evidence, please?

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 04:34 AM

"'Dates back to Ancient Egypt'. Evidence, please?"
The Ancient Egyptian tale of two tomb robbers eating stolen figs in a tomb they were raiding and deciding which of them should stand and keep watch by who spoke first is indexed and motifed in the Stith Thomson index and is referred to in a number of collections

Humour relies on surprise.
Not necessarily - 'funny' usually is
Humour, in my opinion, is based on observing absurdity - Billy Connolly is humourous in his observation of human frailty, based on observation
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 04:45 AM

Thanks Jim for reference3 to indexBut still awaiting 'evidence' if you can give it. What is the source for this 'tale'?

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 05:24 AM

Personally, I am not in favour of humorous songs that go on too long: it seems to come up in some song-writing competitions that people will pen 12-15 verses, EACH of them independently funny, but it really is over-egging it (They could try separating all those superb funnies into 3 standalone songs.) 5-6 verses max, please, gives the song more thrust.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 05:47 AM

"What is the source for this 'tale'?"
Sorry guest - if it's good enough for Stith Thomson, it's good enough for me
The 'Ancient Indian' reference in Lee's 'Folk Tales of the World, are indicative that the tale, in one form or the other for a long time
WE know that Ballads like Hind Horn can be traced as far back as Homer's 'Odyssey' and Lord Gregory back to Chaucer

Can't see why drawn-out 'humour' should be disapproved of in any way Tattie, they take as long as they take
The humour of 'Shaggy Dog' stories are based on their length annd would be unfunny if shortened -
I think I agree with songs or stories being 'unnecessary' long, but that's a different issue (I always think that those who put an extra or repeat verse to 'Will Ye Go Tae Flanders' manages to miss the point of the song spectacularly)
Long books like 'Catch Twenty Two' need the time to develop their satire
One of the problems seems to be that attention span has reduced so much as to make many of the great creations of the past 'too long'
Jim

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 06:36 AM

Was it frank Carson who said, its the way you tell 'em. I think that holds true.

Song is a bit like Shakespeare - you have put the time in and find out how it can work for you, and what can work for you.

Not all of us were cut out to play Hamlet.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 06:38 AM

Perhaps I didn't explain myself terribly well Jim. Yes, attention span could have something to do with it, but I don't mond a shaggy dog story rhat really draws tou in, and has a good punch (woof?) line.
The songs I'm talking about seem to have a new scenario/joke in each verse: just too much!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 07:31 AM

I won't name names [can't actually - I've not woke up sufficiently to remember..]

But I shudder at the thought of smug posh musical comedy acts...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 07:34 AM

I shudder at all my typos on that last post: trying to do it in the back of a moving car, with sun on he screen!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 07:44 AM

"The songs I'm talking about seem to have a new scenario/joke in each verse: just too much!"
I agree totally - that's the stuff of Music Hall
One of the things that distu=inguishes traditional songs for me is the economy - nowt put in except what's needed
Jim

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 07:53 AM

I had a binge listen to Ivor Biggun on Prime streaming a few weeks ago..

He strikes a fine balance between crude, clever, and crap...

There is one song in particular I can play to my old mum over the phone,
the first verse and chorus are guaranted to instantly cheer her up
and leave her in tears [perhaps not just tears...] of laughter...

It helps that her dementia makes it a fresh new comic experience every time...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 08:01 AM

I suppose we're all different.

My love for comedy songs springs from my family's reverence for George Formby.

My Dad used to cut his hair and he was always a generous tipper (1 shilling).

Anyway this year I am making my first trip to the george Formby convention in Blackpool in Novemeber....really looking forward to it.

The chinese are making a banjolele for less than fifty quid and it really is a belter. i got one for my birthday in January. Absolutely fabulous little thing. Sounds just like the real thing!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 08:10 AM

I've been a George Formby fan since my teens...

George and punk rock just semed to fit together so well in my mind back then..

Also Stanley Holloway, I'd listen over and over to the lion and albert 78rpm disc when i was a small kid..

Apparently i voluntarily learnt it for a party piece...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 09:10 AM

ps.. my 87 year old mother's favourite Ivor Biggun song..

Though I don't think she's ever managed to listen to more than the first couple of verses
before laughing herself silly...

..but she never get's bored with it..

Laughter keeps her alive...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hECEMEoMLaE

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 09:17 AM

I like comedy songs. They just don't work once you know the punch line.
"Oh...THAT one. Haha."

(I've only sung this once.)

Sing, oh sing, that old song once more
Some people aren't sick of it yet
It's like hearing the same joke again and again
From someone we've all met
I remember it as clearly as yesterday's lunch
But I'd like the chance to forget

Chorus:
It might have been funny the first time
Whether I laughed, I don't know
It might have been funny the first time
But I heard it so long ago

Poor Mary Ellen was sunk
Then she rose once again
And she's been dragged around, and up follows down
Like a glass of rot-gut gin
The first parody was amusing, perhaps
But it's been a long time since then

And there's holiday cheer, and poor Santa
They only come once a year
But how long can your grandma stay funny
Long after she's squashed by reindeer
The songs might have sleighed a decade ago,
But don't sing that one again here

There's dead dogs in cider, dead people in poop
Dead skunks in the road, and what's more
Can't swing a dead cat without a good song,
And we've got dead cat songs galore
One truth about people - the living - it seems
Is there's nothing as funny as gore.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 12:36 PM

So just to be clear, are we saying that a good comedy song is one that has no laughs in the verses, until the last one? That sounds more like a straight song that finishes on a laugh. The trouble is one joke songs don’t bearing hearing twice, whereas ones with some gentle laughs along the way, building up to a big finish, at least can be enjoyed a few times more. George Formby songs certainly had more than one gag in them, even if it was just comic wordplay and innuendo.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 12:44 PM

Happy Birthday to Tim Curry. ;)

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 12:47 PM

My only hit was a comedy song


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKu98Xvyfd8

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Gda Music
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 01:40 PM

Although not so much a relatively short life "comedy song" as per thread, I`m sure that Sparrow`s *My Little Sister* will make you smile for ever.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ghzO2hN4o
GJ

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 01:43 PM

'I had a binge listen to Ivor Biggun on Prime streaming a few weeks ago..

He strikes a fine balance between crude, clever, and crap...'

I played alongside Ivor in his Doc Cox persona for nearly ten years in a comedy covers band, and found that audiences were only too happy to welcome his songs as old friends, however often they'd heard them. I suppose it helps that he is an excellent musician, and an endlessly inventive lyricist. Luckily the crude and clever outweighed the crap.......

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 02:47 PM

Rusty - Collecting his CDs costs a fortune these days...
It's all mp3s nowadays.
The one I want most with my mum's favourite on it
is way out our price range...
If you're still in touch hint they need reissue...
Cheers...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Andy7
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 04:47 PM

That's a pretty catchy song, Big Al W!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 06:00 PM

thankyou Andy7

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 06:14 PM

Not at all Jerry. A good humorous song, IMHO, will stay on the same tack/subject throughout (the 5-6 verses I mentioned), and not deviate off into other unrelated subjects just for the sake of another totally unrelated joke. But there will be a good laugh in each verse, but save the biggest one for the last verse. A good, simple, easily learned chorus helps too. That's my formula if I'm songwriting.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 06:34 PM

Then yes, I would agree with that; there needs to be some laughs in each verse along the way, to build up gradually to a big pay off at the end, as in classic sitcom structure, as long as it is, as you say, all relevant to the main plot line. Coming back to the original query, that then provides a story that we might enjoy hearing again, even though we already now know the ending.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 06:38 PM

Frank Sidebottom
Jilted John / John Shuttleworth
Jonathan Richman

various other offbeat and outsider performers..

Where do they fit into the analysis...???

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Johnny J
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 07:03 PM

Topical comedy songs get boring even quicker, especially when they become less relevant.

However, more traditional humourous songs are more likely to stand the test of time.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 19 Apr 19 - 09:19 PM

As has been said above,(most)comedy songs are akin to telling a joke - generally, once the punchline has been delivered it becomes a spent bullet.
There are exceptions of course. Fawlty Towers (though not a song)is a good example of comedy writing that is eternally funny because of its consistant high quality. In the same way, comedy songs written to a similar level will always survive (providing the content does not get dated). It's worth remembering, there's a whole new generation every couple of decades to whom the song(s) will sound brand new.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: BobL
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 02:36 AM

Sometimes a comic song continues to work simply as a good song.
e.g. Flanders & Swann's Hippopotamus Song.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 02:53 AM

punkfolkrocker - you will be pleased to know that there are plans to issue a five-CD compilation of the appalling Biggun's career, the fifth being new studio and pub recordings (with myself on a couple of tracks (banjo and mandolin) in a geriatric bid for chart success by association).

I shall post on the 'Cat if anything comes of it, but in the meantime Doc is usually to be heard on a Thursday evening annoying punters at the 'Eel's Foot' pub, Eastbridge, Suffolk.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 03:17 AM

Rusty - That's good news..

btw.. my mum is 87.. so if Doc/Ivor can hurrry it up a bit..

I played her "down by the riverside" again this afternoon,
she was in hysterics before the song even got to Birmingham,
her birth place..

She then spent a fair time reminicing on the single shared toilet
in the tenement block she was raised in before being bombed out evacuated..

The Doc's treatment is a valuable tonic for dementia care...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 03:48 AM

A good comic song is a lot more than just telling a joke, or even a series of jokes, to my mind. It’s more about describing a situation and responses to it, (as in sitcoms and farces), but interlaced with clever wordplay, a consistent rhythm to the lyrics and both good and deliberately bad rhyming (ideally in triplets with the best saved until last, plus multiple internal rhymes, sometimes tortuous). Check out songs by George Formby, Victoria Wood, Jake Thackray, Miles Wootton, etc. for examples).

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 03:51 AM

errr.. "bombed out and evacuated.."...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 03:56 AM

Flight of the Conchords.. Tim Minchin.. Bill Bailey..

Musically impressive.. but can't make my mind up how funny I think they are...???

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 04:35 AM

I like all those too, but that’s more ‘post modern’, with irony, parody and experimental, but more dangerous territory because your audience needs to be on the same level, or they’ll be just non-plussed (looking for jokes that are not necessarily included or needed).

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 04:54 AM

A friend heard about my recent decision to master the uke and enthusiasm for George - so when she went round a charity shop she got me Formby's greatest hits for 50p.

yesterday i put it on the car stereo. ....up comes With Me Little Stick of Blackpool Rock....and those immortal lines

It may get sticky, but I never complain...
I like to have a nibble of it now and again

DEnise and I were both laughing at the line. why is it, some bits still tickle your fancy after numerous hearings and you don't get bored?

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 05:43 AM

Billy Connolly is funny. More than humorous. But Like Tommy Cooper - there is a huge visual content adding in.

And the difference between surprise and absurdity in this context is marginal. We are bandying words, when we should be inspecting concepts.
I refer you to my proposition** that there is a conflict in competing logics. Which can be, IMNSHO, absurdity or surprise.

Now consider the unfunny joke, in this I specify "heard it before" but it could equally be poking fun at your "favourite", it is still absurd though there is no surprise. We park it in the "heard it" pigeon hole or the "non-PC" one. And kill the laugh that would have ensued 250 mS later (yes that is the speed the brain processes - at best).

**borrowed from commedians like Jimmy Carr &/or Ken Dodd

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 08:21 AM

My songs still make me laugh, but at my age I don’t remember hearing them before

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 11:02 AM

Warwick Slade...so right. I'm always finding songs I wrote at some time long forgotten , for what reason...god knows, i certainly don't!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 11:15 AM

I knows a gal a real fine gal, down in Roxham way
She were whooly nice to me back in the old school days
She would smile all the while, but Daddy didn't know all
What she used to say to me down by the garden wall
"Have you got a light Boy?
Have you got a light?"

Chorus.
Molly Lindley, she smokes like a chimney
But she's my little nicotene gal

Now you'll see her and me never more to part
We would wander hand in hand together in the dark
'Til one night I held her tight in the old back yard
But when I tries to hold her close she says "Now hold you hard!"
Have you got a light boy?
Have you got a light?

Chorus

Then one day she go away. I don't see her no more
'Til by chance I see her down along the (Mundley?) shore
She be there twice as fair but will she now be true
So when she sees me passing by she says "I'm glad that's you!
Have you got a light boy?
Have you got a light"

Chorus

By and by we decide on a wedding day
So we toddles off to church to hear the preacher say
Will you now take this vow to honour all the time
Before I has a chance to stop her, she begins to pine
"Have you got a light boy?
Have you got a light?"

Chorus

Now the doctor tells me a daddy I shall be
but when I asks him "Whats the score?" he says there's only three
So here I go Cheerio, to see how she do fair
I know what she will say to me as soon as I get's there
"Have you got a li..............ght, b.............o................y?"

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Andy7
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 11:17 AM

I just came across a song I must have written and forgotten about. It's called "Bridge Over Troubled Water"; and it's not bad, though I say it myself.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 11:24 AM

Producer-package-consumer. You can't break 'em up.

Two sides of the same coin: Songs of bad taste

George Lopez gets a very different reaction from Republicans at a $5,000/plate charity event than the typical casino lounge set.

Entertainment can be "stale" even when it's brand new. Doesn't matter if you've got the audience for it. Other nights.... [thunk-thunk] "Is thing turned on?"

Funny or taste aren't in the songs or jokes per se. It's in the relationship the audience has with the producer (suits, venue, artist &c) and the material.

Understanding your guests, very important in hospitality.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 06:46 PM

There are people who simply sing comedy songs, often without learning the lyrics, cadence, comic pauses etc and sometimes try to sing them and read the words at the same time. This approach doesn't work.

Then there are people who PERFORM comedy songs!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Neil D
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 09:33 PM

pfr, I watched a Tim Minchin concert on Amazon and was pretty much done half way through. I did like him as Atticus Fetch on "Californication".
Bill Bailey I only know from Black Books, very funny but not musical.
Now Flight of the Conchords, I love those guys and never tire of them. "Issues" is classic and when Britt in the guise of The Rhymenoceros raps "Ain't no party like my nana's tea party" I just about spit my coffee.

As to the premise of this thread, I'm reminded of a guy who was really popular when I was young, Jim Croce. Songs like "Don't Mess Around with Jim" and "Roller Derby Queen" have long since lost there charm and if I never hear "Leroy Brown" again it'll be too soon. On the other hand songs like "Time in a Bottle" and "It Doesn't Have to Be This Way" are moving and timeless.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 02:19 AM

Bill Bailey is very musical. I like him in Black books. he does stand up as well, which argues courage.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 02:00 PM

John the Murderer - a Business Plan

I am a trainee murderer - my name is John
I do hope you will bear with me -please don’t get me wrong
My aim’s a career in homicide - the college course is Murder 101
There’s two modules - Killing for Profit - and the other’s Psychopathic Fun
I’ll start off working for meself - but I’m not trying to be funny
Long term aim is workin’ for the mafia - I’ve heard they do pay decent money.

You can use a gun, or axe, a rope or even cyanide
The possibilities will be endless - When I get qualified.

You need an interesting angle - you need that creative knack
You can have a mate to help you, or you can do it on your jack
We’ll be THE BANANA KILLERS - which sounds quite rock’n’roll
And in this folie a deux - I have worked out my role.
I’ll shove bananas in the victim’s mouth - that bit will be fun
And murderer number two can shove bananas up his bum

You can use a gun, or axe, a rope, a banana or even cyanide
The possibilities will be endless - When I get qualified.

There’ll be late night TV shows about us, if we do it well
Perhaps a thinly veiled portrait of moi, in a book by Ruth Rendell
But of course justice always triumphs, the baddies always fail
They’ll get the banana’s DNA profile, and the whole bunch will get jail.
Basically that is my business plan - how I think it could be done
By John, trainee assassin, studying Murder101

Words and music by Alan Whittle Copywright October 27th 2018

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 02:40 PM

Bill Bailey's not musical?

Keyboard gens

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 03:15 PM

As a former teacher, the cry of 'Sir, this is boring' invariably came from inattentive and uninterested students, not those who actually listened to what was being offered.- a parallel?

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 03:38 PM

no, not really...

We, don't know how boring or interesting a teacher you were...???

How many crap deluded wannabe comedians blame their audiences...?????

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 03:52 PM

i dunno - how many?

i would imagine every comic has died in his arse sometime or other. i remember this twat of a social secretary telling me with great pride how he had paid off the late Marti Caine.

The bravery of a showbusiness footsoldier is something that many folk artists could learn from. The music wasn't always for Cecil Sharp and his followers to frolic on the lawn around to. Its got hairs on its arse.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 04:11 PM

Al - well said sir... bet you were a good teacher...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 04:55 PM

"As a former teacher, the cry of 'Sir, this is boring' "

As a former teacher, I'd say the pupils were often right. You can't make everything sound interesting. A lot of what you are required to teach IS bloody boring, endless dates and politics, and pointless maths they're never going to use unless they become maths teachers or rocket scientists; ticking boxes, teaching towards jumping through endless hoops. And then of course there's always 'one man's meat....

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 19 - 05:08 PM

alasno! i was bloody awful. totally inadequate. story of my life!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Apr 19 - 02:55 AM

My songs still make me laugh, but at my age I don’t remember hearing them before

If you entertained yerself when writing it, and you haven't re-visited it for a long time, you are probably laughing at yer own cleverness. And nothing wrong with that, it is confirmation that it is worth singing again. I am sometimes amazed at the poetc/lyric twists I used to put into my words, but back then when the song just dun gotta come out you were in the zone and out it came. But is your own creation boring? All ego aside, if you are proud of it, you may rest it, but boring? Never!

It's called "Bridge Over Troubled Water" - you sure you didn't call it "Trouble over Bridgwater"?

Bill Bailey I only know from Black Books, very funny but not musical - not musical? He did a concert tour of classical music. He does say, having trained classically, with a face like his, who would take him seriously? But from little I know of the genre, his skill on the piano is way up there. And I doubt he would intersperse the music with anecdotes.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 19 - 09:53 AM

Mr Red,
I did not mean to suggest that Bill Bailey isn't musical. I meant that his role as Dylan Moran's sidekick in Black Books didn't feature his musical talent, at least not in the episodes I found on YouTube. Since that is the only place I've seen him, I can't comment on him as a musician. That's what I meant.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: CupOfTea
Date: 22 Apr 19 - 10:22 AM

I take delight in comedy songs, and their even less respected cousin, parodies. The aspect I think that keeps them from being boring is enough wit to keep being amusing and/or something fun to sing. Everyone's milage will vary on how they percieve the wit & humor of the song. I am particularly fond of a number of the songs of Lou & Peter Berryman, not least because they involve a stupendous vocabulary, sharp observation of human (and other) nature, and are endlessly inventive.

Yet, as Tattie Bogle observed above, sometimes there are just too many verses of the same joke. I was taking great delight in the Berrymans' "Chantey from the British Isles" with silly invented terms, yet Margaret Nelson, who has herself sung a number of comic songs, found the point of the joke was well established, and could stop, about halfway through the song. I never, ever, tire of their best known "A Chat With Your Mother/F-word song" and think it's sing-along chorus helps keep it enjoyable. I think many parodies become boring as performed, because they go on and on with variations of the same joke, with no audience participation. Others might be fun in a sing around session where folks can throw in the verses they know - Old Time Religion is a good example of that.

I also think that weariness of a comic song is as liable to happen as with any song that is over-used in a particular audience.

Joanne in Cleveland who still thinks the Berrymans are brilliant

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,former teacher
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 08:49 AM

So teachers have to please ALL the pupils ALL the time & if one out of the 35 says 'sir this is boring' the teacher has failed??? That's what you are saying!

It's a bloody difficult job to start with and if that is the view of the current generation of non-teachers, no wonder teachers are leaving in droves - I did & get my self-respect back eventually

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 09:15 AM

GUEST - calm down - I'm married to a teacher.
I partially trained as a teacher, I know lots of teachers..

You sir are over heated and starting to talk bollocks...
maybe you weren't cut out to be a teacher..??

Like most folks aren't good enough performers to succeed at comedy...???

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: GUEST,former teacher
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 12:15 PM

you know nothing about me nor is your opinion of any interest to me- you know the situation with education today (or you should)-

I'm not the enemy !! but the word 'boring' to me IN ANY CONTEXT normally (not always) indicates a deficiency in the listener.

And so does bad language

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 12:21 PM

GUEST - file as 'nutter'...

It's a good day for bonkers GUESTS on mudcat.. well entertaining...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 01:22 PM

wash your mouth out pfr!

there is no excuse for exposing us to you using bollocks in an unsavoury manner - this is a folk music website....a bollocks free zone!

shame on you!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 01:25 PM

in fact i should like to apologise for the pfr mentioning his knackers.

you've let us all down pfr.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 01:26 PM

Al - I know other rude words, if they'd be more acceptable...???

I'm very versatile...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 01:35 PM

Not sure what this fuuss is about - I get fed up hearing kids describing things they don't like as "boring" - I only hope they grow out of it when/if they grow up
Don't believe there is any such thing as 'bad language' only badly used language
I'm a great fan of both John Wilmott and Rabbie Burns
Jim

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 01:45 PM

Jim - that's kids innit..

But as they grow older, more sensible, and more experienced,
they should have a better notion of what and who is genuinely boring...

The fuss is about a GUEST who claims to be an ex teacher
seemingly embittered by possibly justifiably being called boring...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 01:58 PM

"But as they grow older, more sensible, and more experienced,"
I wonder
I'd want a lot of money to take on a teaching job nowadays`````
Kids are doing nobody but themselves harm by sitting back and waiting to be entertained an them ups tairs are making a fortune out of their boredom
Jim

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 02:10 PM

Jim - I realised early on when considering teaching as a career
I didn't have a suitable personality for the profession...

I lack patience, am too easily provoked, and have never liked kids that much...

However, I do have some background in comedy entertainment,
but definitely wouldn't pay good money to see myself [our band] perform..
My standards are too high...

My mrs has survived the profession for over 30 years,
it's never been more exhausting and despairing than since Blair,
and then the tories got back in...

She sees younger trainees cracking up regularly...

Anyway, more than a few comedians are ex teachers...

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Andy7
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 02:22 PM

Kids these days, they even find folk music boring.

But just wait until they mature a bit; once they reach the age of 75, they'll come flocking into the folk clubs!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Acorn4
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 02:50 PM

With their ipads of course!!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Andy7
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 02:51 PM

Hahaha!

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 19 - 02:56 PM

" they'll come flocking into the folk clubs!"
Somebody needs to - and quick
Rag
I love kids, preferably with a sprinkling of fava beans
Don't mean that - I've always found that talking to kids with a degree of interest usually works - maybe that's a generation thing
Two of the most hopeful events recently has been the wave of nationwide strikes by schoolkids here in Ireland, protesting about climate change, and how about that wonderful Swedish girl who told Parliament she could recognise liars when she met them - one of Iains's "ecoloons", no doubt
Kids like those can have my pocket money any day
Jim

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 11:45 AM

strange really -if we'd done that, they would have beat the living shit out of us.

I remember the Cuban missile crisis. i was convinced we were all going to die that afternoon, incinerated. i said to my mum and dad, let's all stay home and be together when we die.

my parents though said - it won't happen they'll work something out - and sure enough they did.

years later i heard a few kids had gone down to the copper kettle milk bar. to die there amongst the milk shakes and kit kats. the headmistress of the girls school came down to the copper kettle and took her girls away from all that temptation.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 01:28 PM

An obvious career path...teaching to stand-up comedy. You wouldn't last five minutes in a classroom without a strong sense of humour.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 02:47 PM

A better question would be "Do comedy songs get boring?". I must be fair, I love some of the 'songs' of Les Barker (Reg: The lonely glow-worm. Dachshunds with erections can't climb stairs). And, although his poems often to seem to be set to well-known tunes (and are often parodies thereof) he doesn't actually sing them. It's more of a poetry recital.
If you get a chance to be at one of his evenings, you will likely enjoy it. But as the evening goes on he gets requests for certain items which are part of his regular repertoire, and people join in with the punchlines. These are just as amusing as the first time you hear them, possibly more so. Les is not only a writer, but quite clearly a 'performance artist'. Just reference to his performances seems to negate the original question.

Subject: RE: comedy songs - why do they get boring?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 19 - 03:00 PM

Obvious answer to the thread title is..

"Some do, some don't - but which ones are variable depending on diverse audiences..."

any analysis beyond that is interesting to debate,
but ultimately leads to even more question marks...

Though academics still try to define comedy...

Maybe time to google AI computer generated jokes...???

That Amazon Alexa thinks she's a comedian,
but right now I'm sure she still depends on human gag writers...