When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...

Subject: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,SB
Date: 22 May 19 - 11:36 PM

and still is ....

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.music.folk/BUewf4HUPZE

"The governments plans to tighten up on illegal folk singing and morris dancing on licence premises is already with us. Plain clothed Police will be diverted from other duties such as investigating house breaking, armed robberies etc. in order to stop folkies engaging in their disturbing illicit activities."

And this stupidity is still current.

SB

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,SB
Date: 22 May 19 - 11:41 PM

Re: Belper Folk Club - closed after a police raid ....

A poster says

"I'm not from the Belper club, but as I recall the venue had been in use for some 30 years without PEL. (one of the 95% of licensed premises that don't have PEL),

" In order to run legally it was a members only venue. Not open to the public, no PEL required. However, two visitors came to the club, took out membership on the door, stayed for half an hour or so and left. They turned out to be plain clothes police.

The Licensee and organisers were then notified that either the club cease or a proceedings would be taken. Membership of a private club cannot be taken at the door but must be at least 24 hours and preferably 48 hours in advance of first attendance.

Please note that the police did not specify a time scale but 'prefered' a 48 hour membership, that they joined the club in order to obtain evidence that this was not being applied although the club had been functioning for such an extended period. No noise complaints, no safety issue and as far as I know no nude floor spot!"

And the situation pertains today.

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:33 AM

Those events took place in 2002. A new Licensing Act was passed the following year and came into force in 2005.

If you have evidience that police are ignoring the termos of the 2003 Licensing Act then give it.

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:52 AM

Quite a story!

However the situation is not so bleak as all that in Belper!

Belper Folk Club has a current facebook page and appears to be actively involved in quite a lot of folk music. Derbyshire is a lovely area of the UK for anybody thinking of visiting, far less busy and wet than its more famous cousin the Lake District, if less dramatic perhaps than the Yorkshire Dales.

I seem to remember people being concerned about new licensing regulations, so for more information here is a link to some government information pages about them.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/entertainment-licensing-changes-under-the-live-music-act#do-i-need-a-licence-for-music-entertainment

The most recent guidance relating to licensing and clubs does state that immediate membership of the sort apparently given to the police is not allowed.

I'm thinking, from having read the guidance, that enforcing alcohol licencing laws rather than banning folk music may have been the purpose of the intervention.

I suppose that all club members will want to feel confident that whoever is in charge ensures that licensing regs are complied with to avoid such situations arising!

But it really does seem an odd priority for law enforcement!

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 19 - 05:00 AM

Indeed Belper is a lovely town.....with a folk club, French restaurant, rivergardens, scenic views...

Unfortunately the police headquarters are in nearby Ripley, and as local folklaw has it, theres that many queers in Belper, if y' drop a tanner, yermuss kickiter Ripley afore y'dost bend down an' pick it up.

The policemen were probably Ripley types.

Apologies for lack of political correctness.

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 19 - 05:36 AM

Funnily enough I was near Belper on Sunday at the Makeney Gate House. Lovely big house for hire that I would recommend for anyone having a 'do' that their own house will not accommodate. I didn't get to the folk club though

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 23 May 19 - 07:00 AM

Pseudonymous,

Whilst I absolutely agree that "Derbyshire is a lovely area, I would contest your view that [it's] far less busy and wet than its more famous cousin the Lake District.

Of course, the sadly now hideous, Bowness is utterly rammed. Castleton, although not hideous, has suffered something of the same fate. I don't know the White Peak as well as I do the Dark, but try and find a parking space for a Sunday walk in Lathkill Dale...

However, in both National Parks, it only takes a little thought, and map reading skills, to get "far from the madding crowd", and enjoy solitude.

Your comment regarding rainfall and whether Derbyshire is 'less wet', piqued my interest. I've lived in the Lakes, and currently reside in Buxton.

According to climate-data.org, Buxton's rainfall is 1133 mm per year, and Kendal's 1137. Less that 0.011% a day difference.

All the best,

Ed

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 19 - 07:16 AM

I have the original cutting of this somewhere - it comes from a 1960 newspaper
Jim Carroll

SOME STRANGE FACTS ABOUT THE LATEST CRAZE……
JUST HOW INNOCENT ARE SIGNS LIKE THIS
By PETER BISHOP

A NEW TEENAGE CRAZE IS SWEEPING BRITAIN—FOLK MUSIC. BEARDED, DUFFLE-COATED YOUNGSTERS SQUAT ON THE FLOOR OF CELLAR CLUBS LISTENING TO FOLK SONGS TELLING OF LOVE, OF DEATH, OF OPPRESSION.
There are more than 200 of these clubs in Britain, with 250,000 members. More clubs open every week.
But this boom has some people very worried. For many of the movement's big names—singers, agents or record sellers—are either Communists or they hold extreme left-wing views.
And it is feared that, with folk music attracting more and more young people, there is a danger of their being wooed by Red propaganda. Just how great is that danger? Last week I took a close look at the folk music world.
There is no doubt that the Communist and left-wing element among its leading personalities is powerful.
For example, Topic Records, Ltd., of Hampstead, London, the leading company specialising in folk music, is controlled by a top intellectual Communist.'
He is 62-year-old Alan Bush, a rugged, bearded composer of serious music. His work is familiar and well liked in Russia. He has been there many times as a composer, conductor and as a fraternal; representative at the congress of Communist Composers.
Folk music fans who want to buy the latest records can go to a shop in New Oxford Street specialising in folk songs. It is owned and run by Collet's Holdings, Ltd. Collet's also run several book shops selling left-wing publications.
The company was once described in the Communist "Daily Worker" as a "commercial firm, but not a capitalist one," with its directors taking neither dividends nor profits.
The Folksong Agency, in Paddington, London, represents such top artists in the folk field as Ewan MacColl, Dominic Behan and Peggy Seeger.

'REVOLUTIONARY'
It is run by Bruce Dunnett, a Communist. He told me: "I have been a member of the Communist Party for many years.
"But I can assure you that politics and folk music don't mix.
"There are left revolutionary songs, of course. But then there are also traditional songs, songs of love and songs of protest.
"I am interested only in promoting and developing interest in folk music.
“If I or any other Communist, or Tory for that matter, tried to trot out dogma at a folk music club or concert they would soon tell me to shut up."
Mr. Dunnett agreed that folk music circles have a definite left-wing atmosphere.
"That is because most folk songs have been, and are even now being, created by ordinary working people," he said.
The biggest name among folk singers in Britain is Ewan MacColl, a. bearded ex- playwright from Salford, Lancs, and a Communist,   
He sings in clubs up and down the country on such themes as the sad Irish workmen who laboured on the Ml, and on Timothy. Evans, the man hanged for a murder which some people; believe he did not commit.

CANDLELIGHT
MacColl, aged 45, told me: “Of course there are Communists and left-wing people who go to folk-song clubs.
"But then there are also Tories, Socialists, and Liberals. They go to listen to the music, not politics.
"They are inclined to tie individualistic, who would make known their objections if they thought attempts were being made to organise them politically or any other way."
Another folk singer is Karl Dallas. He specialises in the guitar and contributes articles to the "Daily Worker."
Now let's take a look at one of the clubs. The 200-strong Swindon Folksingers Club is run by, Ted Poole, aged 37, and his wife, Ivy. Mr. Poole is a Communist. He told me:
"The music we sing is left-wing because it comes from the workers.
"Most of the songs reflect the thoughts, emotions, oppres¬sions, passions and struggles of the working peoples."
The club meets on Friday nights in a candle-lit room at the rear of the Greyhound, Hotel, Swindon. It costs 2s. 6d. to join and admission to sessions is 3s.—non-members 4s
Mr. Poole added: “There is no sinister political motive in the background."
Finally, I talked to 42-year-old Eric Winter, folk singer, journalist, authority on folk music, and editor of a lively folk song magazine called "Sing."    .
He told me: "It's true to say that folk music and the clubs have a strong left-wing atmosphere.
"Many people who enjoy folk music are anti-Bomb, anti-apartheid, anti most things
“They’re not sure what they are for- but they would resent any attempt to introduce politics of any sort.”
So even if the Communist Party is contemplating a planned program to recruit from the folk-singing fans, it seems they will be out of luck.
BUT CLEARLY, IT IS A SITUATION WHICH NEEDS WATCHING

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 May 19 - 09:03 AM

If that Jeremy Kremlin gets into Number Ten there'll be Russian tanks rolling down the High Street before you know it!

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 19 - 09:13 AM

no need to worry these days, unfortunately.

one wonderful Welsh teacher of English told me. Never worry if the kids are nicking the books, it shows you are buying the right ones.

different people see cause for concern in different ways.

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 23 May 19 - 11:33 AM

Jim, your description sounded very much like the 'shock horror' item written many years ago (1960s?) for one of the Sunday rags by one wOODROW WYATT (MP?)- am I right?

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 19 - 11:52 AM

Don't know Jim - the author was given as Peter Bishop, but that may be a pen name - wouldn't surprise me
I'm pretty certain it was a Sunday rag and the reference to Ewan's age makes it 1960
It used to amuse me that Woodrow Wyatt was entitled 'Baron Wyatt of Weeford'
Jim

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 23 May 19 - 01:39 PM

I remember Belper FC well - The Old King's Head. Don't stamp too heavily 'cos plaster from the ceiling falls into the beer on the downstairs bar.......Long, long ago now - I was even slightly involved in the club.

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:10 PM

i played the lounge there once. the only audience was a lady who said she was a witch, and that i had an aura of grey mist surrounding me, but only she could see it.

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:22 PM

I was there that night, Al. You couldn't see us for the grey mist and we couldn't see you. We thought it was a background track playing so we all went home, except for the witch of course who could see through the mist.

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 23 May 19 - 03:52 PM

Red mist would be better for folk clubs to judge by the content of some threads on mudcat

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 May 19 - 04:22 PM

Or maybe Scotch mist?

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 23 May 19 - 04:59 PM

haar haar

(sorry the red mist was me)

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 May 19 - 05:05 PM

Do I hear the sound of rorquous laughter?

Subject: RE: When UK Folk Music Was Illegal ...
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 23 May 19 - 06:11 PM

never mist the opportunity to make a pun