Pop songs done in the 'folk style'

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jun 19 - 06:00 AM

There are many ways of categorizing a song, most of them subjective.
It would seem that putting labels on them and assigning them to various boxes is merely a convenience that allows a vast overlap.
Putting rigid definitions to somewhat arbitrary divisions results in an argument just waiting to happen. Better to just accept that different opinions exist and not get het up over it.
While academics may wish to discourse the bulk of humanity merely wishes to listen, or a small minority perform. If the song is not popular it dies. In the corpus of pop how many pass the old grey whistle test?
"yesterday" is over 50 years old. Do we regard it as pop or folk.
"Dancing queen" is equally as popular but I would argue it's impact is ephemeral whereas Yesterday plays on deeper emotions and to my mind give it greater longevity. My thoughts-others may have other conclusions.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST,Some folk
Date: 03 Jun 19 - 07:14 AM

If Harry Chapin were alive today, he'd be upset to be classed as anything but a folk singer...

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 03 Jun 19 - 07:37 AM

Martin Carthy does the Bee Gees

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jun 19 - 02:14 PM

PFR - Re pop stars and ukeleles etc.

Check this out

Watch right to the end :-)

Enjoy.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Jun 19 - 05:06 PM

Then there is that great Theo Bikel performance where he demonstrates how to turn anything (Ghost Riders in the Sky) into a folk song.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: StephenH
Date: 04 Jun 19 - 06:12 PM

Thanks so much for that link, Dave the Gnome, it made my day.
One of the best things I've seen in a long time - nice to see musicians really enjoying themselves!
then, of course, I got lost down the rabbit hole.....

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 19 - 06:42 PM

the PRS doesn't bother collecting for songs that are used and logged by mainstream radio stations. unless you have a lot of plays.

they really don't give a tinkers turd about what goes on in folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 19 - 04:25 AM

Folk & traditional song words are deep & meaningful while most pop song words are shallow & ephemeral so anyone who can bring the latter to the level of a folksong has achieved something useful.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jun 19 - 04:34 AM

J admit all my early ideas about folk music were quite wrong.

At school we learned many real traditional folksongs in Singing Together radio programmes. However I would never have described them as folk songs, when I was a kid.

I suppose , the first time I heard music on the radio that I loved and heard described as folksong was The Kingston Trio singing Where have all the Flowers Gone?

I know now that my ideas were factually wrong. Tommy Roe's sentimental song The Folksinger, I probably would thought of that as folk music as well.

The thing is though, it was those radio friendly songs that were my first foray into acoustic guitar strumming. Those plummy voices with hearty piano accompaniment on Singing Together weren't the motivating factor.

So I don't sneer at people who think they're playing folk music when they try to strum out Ed Sheeran, or whatever. It's a start. And as Joey Fagan says in The Committments - I believe in starts!

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 19 - 04:36 AM

Folk & traditional song words are deep & meaningful

What, like in seven drunken nights or froggie went a'courting or the Tailor's britches or... Oh, I think you get the picture :-)

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST,GUEST, Larry Poole
Date: 05 Jun 19 - 11:53 PM

I do a pop song from the eighties called "Banana Republics" written by Jimmy Buffett and Steve Goodman. I never heard the original (or havent heard it in thirty years) but learned it from a friend, who says I have now folked it (up?). I play it diatonically on a latin style harp, so I guess I have simplified the chords (and melody) slightly and play it as a medley with a Columbian melody (Tupinamba) which has my gringo version of a pasaje rhythm. The snide lyrics make it an "Unamericana" protest song in the best sixties tradition. Is it a folk song yet?

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: BobL
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 02:24 AM

Buddy Holly's "It Doesn't Matter Any More" is one of the few out-and-out pop songs that works on a G/D melodeon. Any others?

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 06:51 AM

Wake the Dead, a band based in No. California, approaches some of the more accessible Grateful Dead/Jerry Garcia songs from a "Celtic" angle and grafts them to traditional Irish and O'Carolan tunes. The instrumental work is stellar but the vocals can be a bit lacking, IMHO. They've recorded 2 or 3 CD's of this type of material.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 07:22 AM

Did anyone mention Fox on the Run. I think it was The Country Gentlemen who turned the Manfred Mann song into a Bluegrass standard here in the U.S.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 07:23 AM

Downes and Beer used to do Fox on the Run as well

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 07:57 AM

Any fans of "Hayseed Dixie" around here?

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 09:29 AM

When I pick up my concertina in a spare moment my fingers play whatever comes to them, mostly folk tunes, but they occasionally stray into all sorts of other genres. Not my fault at all. I'm not responsible for them as soon as they slip into those straps. As for style, they don't seem to know anything about that.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 10:16 AM

Right, when I play the mandolin one of my warm-ups is that riff (sounds like an electric 12 string) that kicks off Herman's Hermits cover of Silhouettes. A scale exercise I do morphed into it.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 10:26 AM

I forgot this - Phil Beer sings The Hollies (Graham Gouldman)

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 10:59 AM

I occasionally play in a group called "Wee Five Folk"; acoustic guitar, banjo, baritone ukelele and me on my B/C box or keyboard, + limited percussion. Most of the repertoire is early pop stuff, Doris Day, Elvis Presley, Beach Boys, Buddy Holly, Beatles, Lonnie Donegan, Eagles, Kris Kristofferson, Simon and Garfunkel, etc, etc. A brief nod to some of our own songs and Scottish and Irishfolk, but the majority of each set list is pop.
Our audience is a couple of clubs for people with various disabilities, and they love it: and they know a lot of the words and sing along lustily.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 01:38 PM

As a twist to the theme there was Dave Burland's piss-take of Martin Carthy's one time 'honking' singing style using 'Blue Suede Shoes' sung to the tune of, if memory doesn't fail me, 'The Banks of the Sweet Primeroses'!

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 02:29 PM

I've been known to sing the chorus of Chantilly Lace to the tune of the Parting Glass.

Steve - I accidentally discovered that the Smoke on the Water riff is easy on an Anglo :-)

I went on a quest to find my store mentioned version of "Superstition"

Here it is!

Enjoy.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jun 19 - 02:30 PM

Store=afore

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 19 - 08:59 AM

There are many songs from the era of early pop- define it yourself- which can be played on a basic melodeon or concertina & much more fun than many folk songs.
Sam cooke, Al Bowlly, Hoagy Carmichael, Lonnie Donegan, Dr Hook to name a few & did you ever hear Bob Davenport singing Memphis Tennessee or jim Bainbridge singing 'Rum & Cocacola' with his melodeon?

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 07 Jun 19 - 09:44 AM

There's The Wurzels version of British Sea Power's "Remember Me":

Wurzels - Remember Me

That was on a vinyl release a few years back, and the "Other" side (double "A" side) was BSP doing a version of "Oi Am A Zuyder Drinker":

BSP - I Am A Cider Drinker

You can't call it a "rocked up" version, more a "heavily rocked down" version!

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Jun 19 - 03:48 PM

Da Do Ron Ron is very easy (only 3 notes in it!) on my box, as is Doo Wah Diddy Diddy Dum Diddy Dum!

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST,Some glam rock bloke
Date: 09 Jun 19 - 02:15 PM

Fox on the run???

The Sweet

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jun 19 - 11:36 AM

There's another Sweet song more appropriate for old folkies..

"Little Willy"...

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Jun 19 - 09:43 AM

I agree with the post that said that putting labels on things was an argument waiting to happen.
Yes, a good song is a good song.
And I enjoy all sorts of music BUT I prefer my folk mainly traditional, so labels have their purpose.
Just as if I go to a concert I'd rather hear Bach than 'songs from the shows'
Others are welcome to have other preferences.

What do people think about folk songs sung in 'choir style' arrangements? Our choir sings from the OUP book 'Folk Songs for Choirs' Arrangements by people like Grainger, Moeran, RVW. Don't sound much like folk songs to me.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST,Fyldeplayer
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 01:20 AM

Several years ago we saw Lynne Heraud and Pat Turner sing 'Sympathy' by Rarebird, a Capella, pop or protest song? Who cares, what a gem. Don't Give Up by Peter Gabriel is working well in clubs with 3 vocals, guitars and concertina. Some pop songs were folk in style - Home Loving Man sung by Andy Williams I do, great chorus.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 03:11 AM

Good point about the choir, Mo. It highlights the fact that sometimes the style in which a song is done is as important as the song itself. On that basis I think songs from the shows, pop songs or even folk songs would be acceptable at an orchestral concert as long as they were done in an orchestral style. Conversely, seeing as you mention a specific composer, there have been plenty of instances of classical music used in pop - It does not remain classical if done in a pop style. In my opinion.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 03:12 AM

I should have added that there is a pop phrase that sums it up perfectly.

It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it :-D

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 04:51 AM

I've never attempted to define folk OR traditional music- here be dragons.

Some of the above posts give me some encouragement, as I've said for years that any kind of music is a STYLE (or many different ones) rather than a repertoire, and I still believe that.

Hear a song?tune, learn it, then make it your own & sod the PRS

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 12:10 PM

'Sympathy' by Rarebird, is imho one of the best naive protest songs ever
and should be a folk standard...

An old drippy hippy prog rock lyric just as relevant as ever...

The LP also happens to be one of the first rock records I ever owned when I was about 12..

It was in a clearance sale in Woolworths, and I liked the cover picture..

Just by pure coincidence, a few days ago I discovered a 1970s Soviet Bloc cover version
sung in Georgian...

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 03:21 PM

I could be a Muscat theme too

Half the world hate the other half...

:D tG

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 03:32 PM

Anyone who thinks American pop and rock are somehow above English folk and classical music (or Irish or Scottish, etc., for that matter) is a fruitcake, frankly; we can beat them, so don't join them

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 03:44 PM

WalkaboutsVerse - it's that kind of talk that exposes folks as out of touch narrow-minded nutters...

careful now...

A sensible person could say that much of American music owes a big debt to British and European folk music..
Roots, foundations that Americans have built upon, which enriches their modern music,
and makes it so good and appealing world wide...

Then you could pat yourself on the back for being so proud of our heritage folk music...

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 03:57 PM

Things ARE bad, PFR - e.g., Mongolian throat singing sounds amazing but now the huge majority of young Mongolians set their lyrics to rap and pop, very sadly. If you love our world being multicultural, we have to be more militant.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 04:26 PM

.. militant...???
Banjos and AK-47s...

Don't worry, there's bound to be mongolian trad folk fanatics clinging on and complaiing..

What's mongolian for "mudcat"..
I'd expect they have their own forum just like this for folks like us...???

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 04:38 PM

Definitely not AK-47 type militancy, PFR! I wrote a poem about that - "Monopoly on Weaponry"

Traditions exist due to folks being impressed by how their own forebears did this - so many youth around the world are impressed, rather, by how young Americans do things. I worry.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 04:48 PM

Worry..???

I don't - ordinary folks can do both..
Continue their own folk traditions, and enjoy the music of other nations...
New and old..

We, all nationalities can co-exist through music much better than politicians and corporations want us to..

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 05:00 PM

"Continue their own folk traditions, and enjoy the music of other nations..." (PFR)...I agree with that 100% - enjoying listening to the music of other nations BUT practising my own good English culture, including English folks songs, hymns and carols.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 05:12 PM

Why on earth would anyone think that any type of music is "above" any other type? That is what causes conflict. Different people like different things. I don't "get" some types of music. Even some kinds of folk. That doesn't mean they are bad, just different. What is wrong with young Mongolians enjoying rap for heaven's sake? There is plenty enough room in the world for all tastes. For what it's worth young Mongolians are not all into rap anyway. Many are into Mongolian folk rock

Enjoy :-)

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 05:25 PM

But, as I say, Dave, I like hearing traditional Mongolian throat singing and want it to be kept alive.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:35 PM

Heard this tonight for first time in years..

Here's a pop song that really ought to be included in the folkified repetoire...

"Look inside
Look inside your tiny mind
Now look a bit harder
'Cause we're so uninspired
So sick and tired of all the hatred you harbor
So you say
It's not okay to be gay
Well, I think you're just evil
You're just some racist who can't tie my laces
Your point of view is medieval
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
'Cause we hate what you do
And we hate your whole crew
So, please don't stay in touch
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
'Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So, please don't stay in touch
Do you get
Do you get a little kick out of being small-minded?
You want to be like your father
It's approval you're after
Well, that's not how you find it
Do you
Do you really enjoy living a life that's so hateful?
'Cause there's a hole where your soul should be
You're losing control a bit
And it's really distasteful
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
'Cause we hate what you do
And we hate your whole crew
So, please don't stay in touch
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
'Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So, please don't stay in touch
Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you
Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you
Fuck you
You say
You think we need to go to war
Well, you're already in one
'Cause it's people like you that need to get slew
No one wants your opinion
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
'Cause we hate what you do
And we hate your whole crew
So, please don't stay in touch
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you very, very much
'Cause your words don't translate
And it's getting quite late
So, please don't stay in touch
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you (fuck you)
Fuck you (fuck you)
Songwriters: Gregory Kurstin / Lily Allen"

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 08:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=SN&hl=fr&v=yFE6qQ3ySXE

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 02:29 AM

Keeping something alive is fine Walkabout. There is room for everything and as long as something is liked, even by a small number of people, it will live. But don't think it is any better or worse than anything else. Trying to force something on someone else is the kiss of death.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 05:09 AM

PFR - I had a quick look at the Isle of Wight last night and thought Lily Allen could just as well be turning up at English folk clubs and festivals, with that voice and creativity of hers but, instead, Dave, she is one of so many English sucked into thinking American pop is the cool thing to get into, very sadly.

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 05:46 AM

Why is it sad that any artists are doing what they want rather than being restricted by geographic locations and genres, Walkabout?

Subject: RE: Pop songs done in the 'folk style'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 05:47 AM

Oh, and 100 :-)