BS: Conservative Leadership Contest

Subject: BS: Conservative Leadership Contest
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 10:34 AM

Well three of the ten candidates have been eliminated and Johnson has a resounding lead at the first ballot.

I cannot help but be cynical and suggest that as the Tory leader to take us out of the EU, he and he alone, will be held responsible when all the **** hits the fan in future years.

In other words he is dispensable to the Tory party, a sacrificial lamb.

The rest of them will claim they had nothing to do with any of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 12:00 PM

Early days yet,but I do admire Boris and his threat to prorogue Parliament.
With an impartial speaker such an extreme step would probably    not arise. No deal has to be kept as a bargaining position otherwise we might as well roll over and accept vassalage. Career politicians have no business sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 12:17 PM

Iains - you'd probably also accept a coup d'etat to get yer own way...???

A lot of rabid brexiteers are quite keen on an armed revolution - fact...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 12:40 PM

Where on earth do you get that bizarre idea from? A majority democratic vote decided to leave the EU. Certain members of Parliament have decided to frustrate that process, exemplified most recently by 10 tory mps defying the whip and voting with the opposition. We made a decision to leave the EU not to sign up to Brino or a revocation of article 50. If proroguing Parliament is required to frustrate the partisan speaker, certain labour MPs and quisling tories then so be it.
Her Majesties government is the legal entity to rule, not an upstart rabble.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 12:54 PM

Iains - where...???

Internet social media, where I spend too much time 'having a laugh' with the looniest brexiteers..
Some dangerouly unhinged, many with military training, ex coppers, etc...

Obviously a lot of it is fantasy banter,
but amongst them are people who should definitely be on a security services watch list...

We've already had one feminist labour MP assassinated... just saying...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 01:05 PM

but amongst them are people who should definitely be on a security services watch list...

Like Corbyn then!
"UNSAFE LEADER? Ex-MI6 boss thinks Jeremy Corbyn could be a security risk as PM due to past ‘terrorist ties’

The Labour leader has associations with militant Islamist groups Hezbollah and Hamas and took part in Irish Republican events while IRA terrorists were active"

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 01:12 PM

I spoke to a couple of Tory members today. One liked Boris because he had the charisma and face recognition to beat Farage and Corbyn. The other didn't like that Rory Stewart 'looked too odd to be a leader.'

Neither mentioned whether they thought they would be any good at running the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 01:28 PM

RS - he looks a bit the middle one of the BeeGees.

Its a bit like, who's got the ugliest dog competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 01:38 PM

Iains - Corbyn may not have a spotless political back history,
but somehow I can't quite see him storming a conservative social club Bridge evening
with an AK-47 and a bomb belt...???

Your lot let their imaginations run away with them
when it comes to falsely accusing and demonising lefty politicians...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 01:44 PM

He comes the closest I've seen for a long time to being that phenomenon that's as rare as rocking horse shit, a decent Tory.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 01:45 PM

I meant Rory Stewart.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 01:52 PM

Yeah - Stewart looks like an interesting and sincere bloke...
A man with genuine substance perhaps..???

Unlike that clump of arse fluff Boris...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 02:10 PM

Your lot let their imaginations run away with them
when it comes to falsely accusing and demonising lefty politicians...

Back when Wilson was PM the story was that Tories were planning a coup.
NYT "There is clear evidence that, with varying degrees of seriousness, there were at least two plots against the Labour Party leader Harold Wilson during his two terms as prime minister (from 1964 to 1970, and from 1974 to 1976). In 1968, the press baron Cecil King proposed a coup to replace Wilson’s elected government with a regime headed by Lord Mountbatten, a war hero and second cousin to the queen.

There is a lunatic fringe in any society and probably exist in all political parties. That is why allowing Jo Brand speaking on Radio 4 about hurling acid at politicians without any censure is totally wrong.
It is also wrong that the police have taken no action. Some have short memories.
On 16 June 2016, Jo Cox, the British Labour Party Member of Parliament for Batley and Spen, died after being shot and stabbed multiple times in Birstall, West Yorkshire.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 02:25 PM

By a white supremacist, a person just one step away from Staines and Farage, and no steps away from "Tommy Robinson." Heroes to some around here.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 02:41 PM

"By a white supremacist, a person just one step away from Staines and Farage, and no steps away from "Tommy Robinson." Heroes to some around here."

You are either betraying your own gross ignorance or abject stupidity by making such a deeply offensive remark. Care to clarify which?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 03:07 PM

”Your lot let their imaginations run away with them
when it comes to falsely accusing and demonising lefty politicians...”

Of course they do pfr - it’s all they’ve got.

And Steve, you’re doing it again! He’s not satisfied with trying to provoke Jim into a row on a 13 year-old zombie-thread about MacColl (and succeeding) - for gawd’s sake don’t fall for his school-playground games here too.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 04:17 PM

And Steve, you’re doing it again! He’s not satisfied with trying to provoke Jim into a row on a 13 year-old zombie-thread about MacColl (and succeeding) - for gawd’s sake don’t fall for his school-playground games here too.
I can only assume from the timing that the post is aimed at me.

You are making totally unfounded allegations without any scrap of proof.

Why on earth would I post as a guest, I have no need to hide my identity? Unlike the former muskets.
Why are you dragging your false assumptions from one thread simply to stir up trouble on another?

Can the moderators please deal with this.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 04:27 PM

Tories in disarray

Oh look. Corbyn the terrorist

Brexit is a shambles

Oh look. Corbyn the antisemite.

Social care is going down the pan

Oh look. Corbyn the security threat

For heaven's sake. How long do the right wing press and their rabid readers think this can go on?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 04:28 PM

“...Simply to stir up trouble...”

Thus spake the biggest trouble-maker on the forum - the real one the Mods should be dealing with. Everyone knows you by your constant bad behaviour on the forum, you’re fooling no-one, the only person you are fooling by your protestations of innocence is yourself.

Thou dost protest too loud, methinks.

And what have ‘the former muskets’ got to do with anything?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 05:05 PM

Perhaps when you guys stop bickering you may return to the subject matter of the thread.

The latest "whisper" is that his "rivals" are discussing an alliance to ensure his defeat in the leadership contest.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 19 - 10:45 PM

Last time Parliament was prorogued in this kind of manoeuvre was back in Charles I's time. And that didn't end too well, for the country or for Charles...

Can't be done without the Queen's consent, and that would put her right in the middle of a political firefight. It would set off a process that would very probably ultimately mean the end of the monarchy - as it did last time. I reckon she'd insist it couldn't be done without the agreement of the Privy Council and probably the Speakers of both the Commons and Lords.

Rory Stewart is by a long long way the best candidate to be Prime Minister, which is why he hasn't a hope of winning.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 12:44 AM

the dark horse is Javid, just the person they might want to win asian votesand strike free trad deals with the middle east, not as accident prone as boris and a nasty bit of work imo

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 01:55 AM

Not really sure what you expect The Daily Mail to say - Corbyn is a super guy - its not going to happen, is it?

Anyway, what's it got to do with tory party leadership?

The Mail would support a kangaroo as PM, if it were tory.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 01:56 AM

Skippy for PM!

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 03:10 AM

What's that Skipy? Corbyn has fallen down a well?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 03:29 AM

I can't see that Javid's dreadful decision to strip Shamima Begum of her citizenship is exactly going to help him to win "Asian votes," Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 04:58 AM

Just a reminder of BoJo's views on people becoming PM without being elected

Boris Johnson blasted leaders becoming PM without election


I hope he meant it when he said he was asking the public to vote at once on him, on the new EU treaty, and on the implications of the devolutionary settlement. Let’s have an election without delay

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Jos
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 04:59 AM

All I hear, at least on BBC radio, from Javid is complaints that he was not invited to the Trump banquet.

If I was organising a banquet for someone and knew that that person and one of the possible guests had been exchanging insults in public - guess who wouldn't be invited.

But perhaps Javid is annoyed because he was denied the chance of boycotting the event.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 06:54 AM

The latest "whisper" is that his "rivals" are discussing an alliance to ensure his defeat in the leadership contest.
Interesting 'whisper', but a little lacking in achievability. As long as Boris doesn't lose any of his existing supporters he is already in line to be in the final two to be put to the membership.
He had 114 of the 313 available votes. That is more than 1/3 so (if unchanged) would guarantee being in the last two.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:07 AM

The BBC summary if the papers says "But the Spectator website says with Mr Johnson looking increasingly unassailable among both MPs and the wider Tory membership, the second place candidate will come under pressure to step aside before the grassroots get a say."

That strikes me as very unwise. The last few Tory leader 'coronations' have not gone well, and it would, I suspect, hand yet another card to Farage about "Parliament rigging." If they are confident Boris would win in amongst the ordinary members, it is safer for even his supporters in the party to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:08 AM

(Seek the wider remit, that is.)

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:33 AM

The final two candidates have to stump up £150,000 each to pay for the vote amongst the membership.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 08:49 AM

DMcG wrote: The last few Tory leader 'coronations' have not gone well,

Would you care to expand on this?

Mrs May won all the votes barring the last one and that was avoided only because her opponent, who was trailing, made a bit of a gaff and withdrew. She went on to fight a general election and, despite having a reduced majority, did actually win.

So, with regard to your 'few' Tory leaders, who are the others?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 08:59 AM

So you think May did a brilliant job?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 09:18 AM

DMcG wrote: So you think May did a brilliant job?

I think she was rubbish!

I was asking about your 'few' Tory leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 09:37 AM

You can find out who was elected unopposed as easily as I can, stanron. And also have an opinion on how well the country and/or party did while they were leader.

I won't argue, as this is all the past. The interesting question is whether the leader is to be picked based on what are perceived to be the best interests of the party or the country. Boris for example is highly popular amongst the Tory faithful, we are told, but has a long history of gaffes and errors, including on the international stage. Will these just be ignored, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 10:20 AM

I have already pointed out that Mrs May was not elected unopposed. I think that the last Tory leader who was appointed unopposed was Sir Alec Douglas-Home. If you had watched yesterday's Politics Live you might have noticed Andrew Neill filling in the wait for the leadership vote result by reviewing past Tory leadership contests. Your claim was that

" The last few Tory leader 'coronations' have not gone well,"

The last time that happened was forty of fifty years ago or more. The line I quoted was a slur and it has absolutely no basis in fact. I presume that now you move the goal posts?

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 10:32 AM

It all depends on the who is defining 'not gone well'. If it is couldn't give a shit about anyone but themselves Tories, things have gone swimmingly. For the remaining compassionate and caring population who believe that social care is important, nothing the Tories have done has gone well.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 11:17 AM

It is a coronation in my book if the ordinary members are not offered the choice between the two candidates because at that point the candidate is unopposed. You may choose to use a different definition if you wish: that is mine.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 11:39 AM

"The final two candidates have to stump up £150,000 each to pay for the vote amongst the membership."

Democracy in action...

You can't become Leader of the tory party,
and by default standing PM,
unless you or your donors are rich enough...


All that bollocks they brainwashed us with at Grammar school in the early 1970s
about meritocracy and social mobility... Ha.. ha..ha...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 12:21 PM

Boris is a survivor. Without the "interesting times" we live in it would be a foregone conclusion that he wold be PM shoe-in.
Goddamit he has admitted drugs & adultery, and his campaign suffers no ill. Gove admits it and his campaign dips.

And I have come to the annoying conclusion it will run to prediction.

Despite: the Corbyn debacle
Trump surprise
& Brexshit.

Or Syrian status quo remaining, although with hindsight .....................

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 12:30 PM

Now Stewart has gained atention, he'd be better off aiming for leadership
in the next contest after brexit a few years down the line..

Boris will win so he tick off the box on his CV,
then f@ck up, and f@ck off...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 01:52 PM

May didn't win with a reduced majority, Stanron. She lost her majority. And one reason why a "coronation" would ostensibly suit the Tories is that it could be done quickly so that the new leader would have far more time (ha ha) to "negotiate" with the EU. A late-July victory would leave hardly any useful time, what with holidays, recesses, etc, before that much-vaunted Oct 31 deadline. Well, I've heard it said anyway... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 02:04 PM

So will the tories remember to reprint their offical party calendars and diaries for next year...

That'll be hilarious if come next year they realise they forgot to...

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: peteglasgow
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:15 PM

is there any forum on the internet where rational and caring patriotic people can discuss the awful events that are happening in our country? who is disgusted and upset by what the likes of the tories and their supporters are doing to our country? why is donald trump or guy verhofstadt even a question? anyone remember the picture of our country that danny boyle showed to the world at the opening olympic ceremony in london? anyone recall the incredible string band, viv stanshall, billy connolly, specials, ivor cutler, michael marra , bonzos, stones, clash, richard thompson and many more - folk who offered a decent and open vision of our world. nowt wrong with all that stuff - hate and greed is going nowhere - it's people and love that matter. life can be brutish and short - our purpose is to help each other through it. come on everyone, get real.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:15 PM

Boris could always implode. He looked decidedly shifty in the two public events this week when his minders allowed him out, more like a hostage, or perhaps someone in a police interview trying to avoid saying the wrong thing.

His unambiguous statement in an interview today that the only time he ever tried cocaine was on one occasion when he was 19 could prove dangerous. It doesn't sound too plausible to me, and if it isn't and someone grasses him up it could cause pretty serious problems for him.

It looks pretty certain he'll be one of the two finalists, and on the face of it that should ensure he's home and dry. Unless he blows it.

The thing a lot of the MPs backing him are relying on is his dishonesty and lack of principle. Just because he promises something disastrous to get elected doesn't mean he'll stick to his words.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: peteglasgow
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:34 PM

indeed. what the fuck is going on here - these people are really horrible and we are considering them seriously as potential leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 19 - 07:38 PM

If human civilisation is predicted to end within the next 30 years,
this is where it really starts to lose all hope....

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: BobL
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 02:38 AM

I think she[May]was rubbish!

I dunno, she managed to stave off the Brexit disaster, which nobody including its supporters seems to know how to handle, and hand over the poisoned chalice without spilling it over all and sundry.

Subject: RE: BS: Conservative LeadershipContest
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jun 19 - 03:20 AM

There is a TV show called 'The Last Leg', which has an audience that I suspect is very much the younger, left-leaning part of the population. Last night they asked people to tweet for their preferred PM.

SO let me stress again that this is completely biased (in the technical sense) type of survey: it is of twitter users (who tend to be younger), it is self selecting, and they did not report actual numbers of responders, just the percentages. And the sample is not representative of the entire population.

With all those caveats in mind, Rory Stewart got 70% and Boris 13%. We can put no value on the actual numbers because of all the caveats. But there is enough there, I think, to not quite rule Stewart out yet. I do not expect him to get the 33 votes for the next stage, but even so I would not be entirely surprised if he got a sliver over the threshold.