BS: Understanding the other political side

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 04:54 PM

I think you meant to say rigged to appear as a legal majority- in one case by Russia & the other by Brexshitters.

---

I think it's time to close this. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 03:25 PM

Brexit, like the election of Trump was a majority vote

Right you are, squat-for-brains - except for the fact that neither vote represented a majority.

A majority sufficient for it to be acted on, and regarded as a majority in law. Perhaps you have shit for brains or an inability to understand English.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 03:20 PM

"Initially they wanted to ban our district nurse system"

Yes, complete and utter bollocks hardly worthy even of the Daily Express.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 03:10 PM

The tory brexit project is certainly working effectively
to set pals against pals...

Traditional tory divide and rule strategies.. errmm.. well... rules...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 02:59 PM

Initially they wanted to ban our district nurse system

Just one of the many Euromyths I'm afraid, Al. If you can find any evidence of anyone interfering in our health service, it will not be the EU. Try either the Tories or the US.

Every day on FB you have a go at bullying and abusing us brexshitters.

Utter and complete bollocks. I don't post on Facebook every day. I don't use the term "brexshit" (although it is apt) and I do not bully anyone. Telling lies about me just confirms that you have no valid argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 02:37 PM

The EU has actually done more good for the people of the UK than any UK government since we joined, even Blair's. Far more opportunities through the EU than through UK initiatives. When has the UK even attempted anything as ambitious as ERDF or ESF or the Framework programmes? It hasn't, and the reason is that no UK government ever cares for its people, and the rhetoric in the current tory leadership contest has taken that to new heights.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 02:04 PM

”I remember something”

No idea where that came from.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 02:02 PM

I’m older than you. I worked in engineering in the ‘70s - a company which supplied conveyors and coal-prep plant to the NCB - I worked in shipping, stevedoring, and haulage through the ‘80s and ‘90s, I worked in plastics processing from 1999 until 2014.

I remember the way it was, I remember the under-investment and shitty management, the crappy pay-rates, the stinking industrial relations, and the steadfast refusal to modernise and try to compete because “The whole world wants British goods and always will, because they’re the best”. Until they didn’t. Bugger-all to do with the EU, everything to do with the UK.

I remember a ginger, combed-over tosser and a foul, plummy-gobbed hag of a PM going at it hammer and tongs in their personal battle of conflicting political ideologies, neither giving a flying fuck about the destruction they were wreaking on the families and communities of men who were the true Salt of the Earth. Bugger-all to do with the EU, everything to do with the UK.

You’re kicking the sheep when you should be bollocking the weaver. If your peripheral vision wasn’t so blocked by the chips on your shoulders, you might stand a chance of seeing it.


I remember something

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 12:20 PM

No , I never said the EU was rge root of our problems. The problems lie with our being governed by rich scoundrels. THe EU facilitates their activities.

It absolves them from all blame. The reason we don't invest in you, the reason our seas are having all the fish hoovered outby foreign fishermen, the reason we can't help...EU regulations mate, sorry mate..

To be honest for those of us with some recollection of the past = to give Brussels its due - it started as it meant to go on.

Initially they wanted to ban our district nurse system - to bring it into line with Europe - were the the buzz words back then.

Look you've got your opinion. You're more than entitled to it - every tory constituence, every fat cat financial guru, every MP virtually agrees with you. Its just the communities devastated you have to covince.
Every day on FB you have a go at bullying and abusing us brexshitters. I don't think your policy is working. And I'm not sure it deserves to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 12:06 PM

"I'm sorry if you were living in some place twinned with New Delhi "

Oxford if you think that should be twinned with New Delhi. I was there as a student in the early 70s. Ok, it might be a bit selective as students are regarded by some beggars as a soft touch. But there were loads.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 11:18 AM

Brexit, like the election of Trump was a majority vote

Right you are, squat-for-brains - except for the fact that neither vote represented a majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 10:47 AM

Brexit, like the election of Trump was a majority vote under the respective laws of where the respective events occurred. Why does the left refuse to acknowledge this reality. Trump is still the boss despite all the wittering and likely to run a second term.
Trump and Farage make a great team!

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 10:45 AM

”Bringing it up now is a sign that somebody ain't got nuthin' better.”

Bringing it up now is a sign that somebody has a serious wasp up his ass that he needs radical treatment for. Like a Strait-Jacket maybe.

”Anything from Bruce is better deleted without reading, anyway.”

Agreed. There’s a reason he has hair around his mouth.

I’m guessing he’ll be along any minute, playing the victim as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 10:30 AM

Also, I received some training from a CIA guy (I did "medical intelligence", as in diseases prevalent in the area The classified stuff would include info about chemical/biological/nuclear info.)

The number 1 way to gather information was by watching CNN and using a brain to figure stuff out. I seriously quit talking about everything, because I was never sure whether I got it from an unclassified source or a classified document. Some of the classified stuff felt like "I thought everybody knew that" to me.

Better, more qualified minds, have analyzed the Hillary stuff, and recommended nothing be done.

Bringing it up now is a sign that somebody ain't got nuthin' better.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 09:57 AM

Amen, DtG, a thousand amens.

Good common sense and logic. Though I'm afraid it's 'casting pearls before swine' (not 'abuse', Al - it's a biblical quotation from Matthew 7:6, The Sermon on The Mount).

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 09:52 AM

Is the Big Issue still going...???

..or has it been forced to go internet only...???


Not seen it round here for ages..

The only beggars I see in our town just stick to begging...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 09:50 AM

Beyond me, I'm afraid, Al. You reckon the EU is at the root of all our problems. I disagree but let's leave that for now. You also say that "To repair the damage done by the EU (even to just our marine environment) will take decades - and much more morally upright politicians than are presently in evidence." We know the latter is never going to happen and, to be honest, our manufacturing base is never going to be what it was, so just why are you so insistent that we should leave the EU? Surely working within and improving the framework we already have is a better route to recovery that demolishing everything we have done and starting again. You are voting for and trying to sell something that will never benefit you and it is highly unlikely that in will benefit your children or your children's children. You are grasping for the two birds in the bush rather than the one in your hand. And, to be honest, the birds you saw in the 1970s have long since flown away.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 09:33 AM

RE: 27 Jun 19 - 11:20 PM :

Somewhat encouraging, but way too little, and much, much too late.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 08:59 AM

So it was our own governments and the ruling classes in the U.K. wot dun it then, using 'EU Rules' as a scapegoat? You've just said exactly what we've been telling you for the past three years, FFS!

You BrexShitters are like the farmer in Keith Marsden's 'Prospect, Providence', who kicks his sheep because the mill-workers buggered up the weaving of the cloth.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 08:15 AM

Sorry Dave . Predicted it . Saw it. It was bleeding obvious it was going to happen. And I didn't see one industry go into decline. I saw many industries exterminated by governments who latched onto and adopted the idea joyfully that they bore no responsibility for the health of our industries. Remember Thatcher - you can't buck the market...ring any bells?

the Isabel barnett types on Any Questions type shows were saying -'when we join the common market, there will be more opera houses, and we will start to appreciate European culture instead of these ghastly beat groups....'

Then as now, the debate was dominated by our ghastly upper classes, and their deep conviction that they know everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 07:45 AM

People who sell the Big Issue are not beggars.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 07:40 AM

I just explained what I saw happen.

No you didn't. You saw an industry go into decline and blamed one thing for it.

Now that is "an abstract concept".

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 07:36 AM

No I don't expect you to believe me, Dave. Its not a question of belief. I just explained what I saw happen. Its not an abstract concept. I do not wish to persuade you (convert you like rabid preacher)- just explain my thoughts on the matter.

To repair the damage done by the EU (even to just our marine environment) will take decades - and much more morally upright politicians than are presently in evidence.. But the the longest journey starts with one step.

I was born 1949 . I remember 60's, 70's and indeed the 1950's with clarity.

I remember the Streets of London gang round Trafalgar Square, but the other places I lived in, London, Birmingham, Tamworth, Grantham, Boston - Lincs - were pretty much free of beggars - prior to Thatcher taking a wild pleasure in applyine EU regulations to our industry and closing down 28% of manufacturing industry in 1980-81.

FRom then on - you wouldn't couldn't find a town in England without beggars. The very institution of Big Issue in that era is testimony to the veracity of my recollection.

I'm sorry if you were living in some place twinned with New Delhi - but beggars were a rarity in this country pre THatcher for most of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:52 AM

Oh, and one more thing, Al. If the EU is responsible for the demise of British industry, would you care to give us an estimate of how long it will take to re-establish it once we leave the EU?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:41 AM

I was around in the 60s and early 70s, and there were a lot more beggars on the street than there are now. Maybe there were more in the 80s, but I was in different countries then. And the solution with British industry was and is to make it productive, not subsidise it. And there have been many programmes to make industry more productive, some even funded by the EU through the Framework programmes and now Horizon2020. I saw the difference that ERDF made to Merseyside. Liverpool was the city of the Boys from the Blackstuff, and now with EU help it has many new, thriving industries. Britain has to compete at the things it is good at, not the things it is rubbish at. And the EU is there to help.

Despite Thatcherism in the intervening years, Britain is an infinitely more prosperous place than it was in 1973.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:38 AM

the fault of EU. Yes I believe it is.

Well, I and many others don't. Who is right?

Carry on blaming the EU by all means but don't expect anyone to believe you. The global economy has drastically shifted since 1974. How is that the fault of the EU? Manufacturing in the USA decreased dramatically since 1974. How is that the fault of the EU? I suppose that climate change, the fact that pop music is not as good nowadays and my knees starting to ache are the fault of the EU as well.

You are making the age old mistake of seeing a result and finding something to blame it on. And picking the wrong reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:27 AM

the fault of EU. Yes I believe it is.

I'd worked in industry for Aveling Barford - a highly profitable section of British Leyland.

When I saw the regulations about not not subsidising British industry, I knew back then in 74, that we would be in shit alley.

I watched it unfold - pretty much as I expected. Industries like textiles, and much else going down like dominoes. Those beggars on the street - a generation worked in factories and the only worry was paying for the fitted carpets in their council houses.
Later I worked as a musician in Europe - not the posh folk middleclass fantasy world/ MU rates section - the tough treat people like shit, crooked publishers norm, hard gigging end. And I saw the protectionism that our EU (ho ho!) partners practised. The regulations are a joke.

Just in case you haven't noticed those pricks in Brussels are talking to themselves, and its only us who are stupid enough to listen.

Brexit should mean Brexit because it won't. The constituencies voting for Brexit are the walking wounded of the EU - not tory ones. Whatever Boris says - he doesn't mean it. Its like Thatcher on capital punishment - its window dressing.

Sorry to go on - but I had to get out of the Brexit thread. The abuse was insufferable and being called a Brexshitter. Those are my sincere opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:01 AM

News to me that there weren't beggars on the street before 1974. What was that Charles Dickens thinking, writing all that stuff about problems which didn't exist then. As for dysfuncional families, you can't have done any family history research if you think that is a new problem. And that stuff about opium dens in the 19th and early 20th century, all made up. And what was the other one? Collapse of manufacturing? We all know why that was, and it wasn't in 1974 and wasn't to do with the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 05:47 AM

The collapse of manufacturing, beggars on the street, dysfunctional families, hard drugs

And these are the fault of the EU because?

If you are blaming the EU for them why not give the EU credit for unrelated good things as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 05:09 AM

we'll see BWM, nothing is quite what it seems.

I envy your certainty about the rightness of Remain. Everything that has happened since joining back in 74 seems bloody awful. I voted against it then. The collapse of manufacturing, beggars on the street, dysfunctional families, hard drugs

As far as Boris is concerned, I wouldn't trust anyone with those sort of right wing credentials. One thing is certain - and I'm not sure he has any intention of enacting Brexit. Remember May saying Brexit means Brexit - well it didn't
Boris won't be doing anything for honourable reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 04:48 AM

Strange to see you bewailing the impending PM-ship of Bozo the Buffoon, Al - I’d have expected you to be dancing a jig at the prospect of a Hard-Brexshit-Crackpot taking the helm to drive the ship hard onto the rocks with the likelihood of catastrophic damage below the waterline...perhaps even a total loss. He’s the BrexShitters wet-dream, I’d have thought?

And, rather than indulging old Fuzzy-Face, everyone would do better to ignore him. He’s obviously an attention-seeking Billy-No-Mates who posts provocative horse-puckey here in order to get a reaction from normal people then, when they run rings around him and make him look the fool he is, he plays the victim to try for attention by that route. He reminds me of the skinny, inadequate kid who gets no attention at home, so he goes to school and gives lip to the school bully because even a beating from the bully is attention **of a sort**, and therefore an ‘improvement’ on being ignored by his folks.

Hes a troll, and best ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 04:11 AM

What i could never understand about the Hillary/e-mails thing, is what were the the White House security thinking about?

Surely people in that sort of position should have their net presence ringfenced , firewalled, mott and baillied and totally secure. Sheer carelessness, I think is unacceptable.

Its like that idiot we hho was discovered putting top secret documents into a waste paper bin in Hyde Park.

If the individuals themselves are not bright enough to observe security procedures(and lets face it we're staring into a future with Boris Johnson and Donald Trump as head honchos), there is still no excuse. Our security services should have the situation covered. That's what we pay them for - a degree of professionalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 03:54 AM

I would like to thank Bruce. He has given me great joy by proving that the USA has its fair share of knobheads as well. It makes me feel much better to realise that it is not purely a UK phenomenon.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 01:46 AM

‘Treason’ and ‘traitor’ are words bandied freely about far too frequently by Right-Wing Extremists and Fascists nowadays. Especially when many of those bandying them about can’t even spell them.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 11:20 PM

Dang, Bruce, I thought from the first message that you had finally come to understand and respect the rest of us, and then quickly you moved back to wanting Hillary in Prison and Trump on the Golden Throne.

All that "Hillary for Prison" stuff is kind of a moot point by now, not that it ever had much weight. She did the best she could about Benghazi, in an impossible situation. Her "What does it matter?" remark has been twisted in so many ways, that nobody seems to remember its original context. I heard the remark in context, and it seemed to me that she was expressing anguish at the loss of people who were working for her and wondering why this was a time for her questioners to be working to make political hay off the tragedy.

As for the email question, were Hillary's emails stolen by anyone, by any foreign power or by Wikileaks or somebody? Don't agency heads have authority to make policy regarding the security of their agencies' communications? She may not have followed procedures exactly, and for that she might be blamed for carelessness or failure to follow rules - but treason? No, I don't think it's treason.

And for that matter, the security of Hillary's email seems to have been better than the failed security of the communications of most federal agencies, including my own.

But anyhow, Bruce, I'm disappointed that you haven't come to understand us. We're very nice people. So are you....much of the time.

-Joe-

P.S. Bruce, you may have had security training, and that's nice. I gave security training, and conducted security clearance investigations for 25 years....and I'm not particularly impressed by people who say they had security training, even if they are nice people.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 09:30 PM

Do the words " you simply can't substantiate." ring a bell?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 09:29 PM

Steve,

When you come back all rested and bright-eyed, perhaps YOU can substantiate your accusation, since you complained about me ( after I gave you the information, no less)


Date: 26 Jun 19 - 06:33 PM

"didn't your hallowed nation exploit, shamelessly, expediently, terribly, Mexicans to pick your fruit then send them home forcing them to pay the fare that exactly matched what they'd earned?"

Not heard of that. I wonder when it was, and who had that idea?

Got any details or supporting information?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 08:33 PM

So join the rest of us in questioning your sanity.

Sleep well.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 08:05 PM

You appear to not realise that I give not a flying fart. The amusement is over. Further adherence to this risible thread will have me questioning my own sanity. Nighty night, and don't let Joe The Ted bite...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:48 PM

My post was in reply to PFR


As for Steve, I did not here any comments about the accusations against Trump that had far LESS supporting evidence.

Seems like you like to pick and choose your facts even more than Trump does.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:45 PM

Actually, it is.

As I have posted, it is impossible for Trump to win on his own merits- but the Democrats can offend enough of the larger middle that would then vote AGAINST the Democrat, and hence for Trump. Happened last time, looks like it will happen again.


Until the Liberals get the idea that others have opinions and do not take kindly to being declared "utter fuckwits" for daring to not agree with a far Left ( by US standards) plan.

Just look at the accusations by Mossy on Joe Offer, for NOT treating those that disagree with him like total shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:40 PM

You've got what you want, Brucie. A thread that grandstands your incredibly daft and infantile take on US politics, peppered with lies about rapes that you simply can't substantiate. Your opponents are laughing at you and your friends are clenching their buttocks in embarrassment. Nice work. Now have an early night is my advice. I hope your teddy bear doesn't look too much like Joe... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:34 PM

BeardyB - no that's not a proper answer to a serious question...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:29 PM

pfr,

It is simple- as long as we have folks like Mossback saying
"From: Mossback - PM
Date: 19 Jun 19 - 09:14 PM

Getting rid of Trumpshit won't accomplish a thing unless we can get rid of the 62,984,828 fuckwits who originally voted for him and more importantly the utter fuckwits that account for his current 40% - 45% approval rating."

The choice is between Trump and something worse.

I just wonder if Mossy will be happy to just keep us from the polling stations, or if he has more active plans.

I am not accepting any train reservations from his ilk.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:25 PM

And Hillary was not the Democratic Party, although she rented it for the last election.


I should correct my post:

Mossy,

You seem to be determined to justify the conservative viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:22 PM

What I've never understood is how a continent of 50 odd states
that is so obsessed with democracy,
can allow a single person to abuse the position of president
as though he is an absolute Monarch...???

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:17 PM

Also, much as I dislike them both, Trump is not the GOP.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:16 PM

"It says that I have far too much tolerance for idiots like you."

If I WAS an idiot, I would always agree with Mossback and you.

Sorry you have reading and comprehension problems, Mossy


"What is corroding American politics is, specifically, negative partisanship: Although most liberals feel conflicted about the Democratic Party, they really hate the Republican Party. And even though most conservatives feel conflicted about the Republican Party, they really hate the Democratic Party.

America’s political divisions are driven by hatred of an out-group rather than love of the in-group. The question is: Why?"

You seem to be determined to justify the Republican viewpoint.

All by yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:50 PM

Well, Steve, the problem is that its drifted off topic.

We need to get back to Yascha & Bruce's original thesis, to whit:

"Being ignorant and stupid actually makes you really smart, and the better educated and informed you are the the more stupid and ignorant you get."

I guess that just keeps going around in circles forever........

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:49 PM

It says that I have far too much tolerance for idiots like you. The thread should be closed. After all, you old mate Joe closed his out of sheer embarrassment after being exposed for making a very silly call via his awful song. I think you should petition him to do the same for this shambles. We don't mind, honest. Honest, which is more than you are...