BS: Understanding the other political side

Subject: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 05:52 PM

"Americans often lament the rise of “extreme partisanship,” but this is a poor description of political reality: Far from increasing, Americans’ attachment to their political parties has considerably weakened over the past years. Liberals no longer strongly identify with the Democratic Party and conservatives no longer strongly identify with the Republican Party.

What is corroding American politics is, specifically, negative partisanship: Although most liberals feel conflicted about the Democratic Party, they really hate the Republican Party. And even though most conservatives feel conflicted about the Republican Party, they really hate the Democratic Party.

America’s political divisions are driven by hatred of an out-group rather than love of the in-group. The question is: Why?"


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/republicans-and-democrats-dont-understand-each-other/592324/?utm_medium=offsit

"Perhaps because institutions of higher learning tend to be dominated by liberals, Republicans who have gone to college are not more likely to caricature their ideological adversaries than those who dropped out of high school. But among Democrats, education seems to make the problem much worse. Democrats who have a high-school degree suffer from a greater perception gap than those who don’t. Democrats who went to college harbor greater misunderstandings than those who didn’t. And those with a postgrad degree have a way more skewed view of Republicans than anybody else."

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 08:33 PM

sounds a bit like - the other side is too dim to share my wonderful insights.

that's pretty much where we are at in England too.

Its easier to see the speck of sawdust in someone else's eye than the plank in your own. I think Bob Dylan said that.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 08:41 PM

I had a lot higher opinions of Republicans before they cheated in the '00 election,before Mitch McConnell went over permanently to the dark side "Our purpose is to deny Obama a second term" flouting what was good for the country, then cheating again to deny Obama his right to appoint a middle of the road justice to the Supreme Court, and that yellow stained Speaker, Boner or something, bragging about shafting Hillary, and many other Republicans adding cowardice to their evil ways and first fighting then endorsing a man with deep personality issues to be the 'leader' of the free world, which he, therefore WE (USA) no longer is and are.

That now goes by default to Merkel.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 08:45 PM

Did you read the article before your rant?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:01 PM

Well who'd have thunk that education makes people thicker, but only if you happen to be a Democrat...and that never following the news helps you to understand people better...

I can only conclude from all this that Trump was elected exclusively by extremely well-educated people who avidly keep up with world affairs...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:09 PM

Typical Bruce, Steve- better not to waste your time methinks.

However,its really quite easy to understand the current Republican party.

‘Brain dead’: Conservative writer explains how the right wing abandoned its principles

Alex Henderson        January 4, 2019

Jennifer Rubin has spent a considerable amount of time attacking President Donald Trump and his followers. But the friendly tone Rubin has had with Rachel Maddow, Joy Reid and other MSNBC liberals doesn’t erase the fact that she is a conservative, and Rubin’s most recent Post column asserts that there is still “intellectual energy” and “depth” among those on the right who haven’t succumbed to Trumpism.

As she makes clear, the Trumpist version the party is completely devoid of these attributes, giving her piece the title, “The right need not be brain-dead.” The conservative movement of 2019, Rubin laments, is “dominated by bootlicking from state TV, climate change denial, ‘blood and soil’ nationalism and economic illiteracy.” ....

Watching smart people fruitlessly insist on arguing evidence and facts with conservatives who clearly have no respect for either got under my skin. "Triggering the libs" has become the single most important goal of the modern American right.

All it requires is a shameless willingness to say obviously false things, and then watch your opponents -- still romantically attached to the idea of reasoned debate -- grow increasingly desperate in insisting that objective reality should inform one's opinions.

The maxim to live by is that you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into. Evidence, facts and rational argument are all pretty useless when you're dealing with a person who rejects the value of all those things.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:11 PM

We're in serious danger of getting the same thing here.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:12 PM

No, one can only conclude that the people electing Trump found the Democratic candidate to be even worse than Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:18 PM

Well if you're right you have the stupidest electorate on earth.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:24 PM

Obviously- after all, the claim is that a greater number voted for Hillary. THAT proves your statement, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:27 PM

Trump is merely a shady businessman, who shoots his mouth off.

Hillary was a traitor, who put her preferences above
the safety of the United States while serving in a high level Federal position.
"Classified information is material that a government body deems to be sensitive information that must be protected. Access is
restricted by law or regulation to particular groups of people with the necessary security clearance and need to know, and
intentionally mishandling of the material can incur criminal penalties. A formal security clearance is required to view or handle
classified documents or to access classified data. The clearance process requires a satisfactory background investigation.
Documents and other information must be properly marked by the author with one of several (hierarchical) levels of sensitivity—e.g.
restricted, confidential, secret and top secret. The choice of level is based on an impact assessment; governments have their own
criteria, which include how to determine the classification of an information asset, and rules on how to protect information
classified at each level."

Top Secret is the highest level of classified information. Information is further compartmented so that specific access using
a code word after top secret is a legal way to hide collective and important information. Such material would cause
"exceptionally grave damage" to national security if made publicly available.

Secret material would cause "serious damage" to national security if it were publicly available.

Yet she says "What does it matter?"

That is a kick in the gut to everyone who has ever had a clearance, and protected the information held as expected .

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:34 PM

Security for Idiots and Democratic Politicians

When a piece of information is crucial and can cause serious damage to the national security can be considered classified information. Based on the severity of the damage, classified information can be categorized as top secret (if leaked can cause highest level of damage), secret and confidential (will not cause significant damage if confidential information get leaked).

You may have to hand classified information if you are working with intelligence agency or come across classified information for your professional reason. If you have vague idea of how to handle classified information, remember and follow the following general guidelines when you handle classified documents.

If you are an approve custodian of classified information, you need to remember that it is your duty to protect the confidentiality of the information. You must safeguard this information or documents all the times. If this information get lost, disclosed or get compromised for any reason from you, you will be held accountable for it and may be persecuted according to the law of your local or state laws.
Normally, when you join a job that requires you to handle with classified information, your supervisor or security office will brief you about their rules for handling sensitive documents. If you are not briefed for any reason or if you have doubt about anything, consult with your immediate supervisor for guidance.
If you are a custodian of classified documents, you need to make sure that it is kept in a proper security container that is approved by the authority. When you are leaving office you need to ensure that all classified material is secured as per organizational security guidelines.
When you find that classified document is unattended such as in someone’s desk, you need to ensure it security. You must inform about it to the security personals or the custodian the information. Do not leave the information in unattended state. You can either carry the information with you or hand it over to the proper person, or you can lock it in a safe place and then inform it to the authority.
If you are working with classified material, do not carry it to your home. You must avoid working with classified document at home
When you need to dispose classified information, do not dispose it in any waste basket. You can either shred or burn it so that information becomes irretrievable.
You may have to send email for business reason or have to post information in the job board for recruitment. Before posting anything online or sending email make sure that your content does not have any classified information. If your organization has a policy for use of Internet, follow it and become absolute sure about which information is considered unclassified according to your organization’s policy.
When you make a draft make sure if it conations any classified information. If your draft contains any sensitive information, you must destroy it properly when you no longer need it.
When handling any hard disk and other storage devices, make sure they do not contain any classified data unless they are supposed to do so.
You should pay similar attention and care when handling any foreign documents that you may need for your project or any other endeavor.
If you have to transmit sensitive document from one location to another location, make sure you receive a receipt from the recipients and preserver it in the sender’s office.
Some classified documents may be subject to special security measures and controls because the normal security measures are not sufficient to protect the information. Therefore, when you handle classified information, make sure if it is subject to any special type of controls. If it needs to be handled with special control you need to follow the exact procedures that ensure you handle it with extra security measures.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:36 PM

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/798

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 09:41 PM

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/clintons-handling-of-classified-information/

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 10:07 PM

Security Bruce is throwing another tantrum and talking to himself again. Ignore him, and hopefully he'll run out of hot air.

To review:

Evidence, facts and rational argument are all pretty useless when you're dealing with a person who rejects the value of all those things.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jun 19 - 10:15 PM

I'll just mention it's hard enough understanding your own side a lot of the time.
Even more confusing if sometimes you're not even certain which side you're on any more,
or if you even ever were on a side...?????

Perplexing or what...!!!???

Sides are a bit shit really when you think about it...

Centre.. all together in the middle.. hmmmm.. sounds good..
but that doesn't really work either, does it...

What with the far right claiming to be the real centre,
the true voice of normality,
whilst accusing the liberals and left of being the intolerant fascists...???

The world's gone bonkers...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 12:15 AM

BB:

I don't know about you, but I enjoyed the rant if I do say so myself. I could probably embellish on it, but hey...Now I'm gonna stick with the article, which I think had a deep grasp of the superficial.

I know many conservatives, and since I'm in Alaska, I have to navel gaze to sample the liberals...

There is a lot of BS that people who follow Twitter and the unanalyzed un-Snope checked articles might believe. I just heard of a recent case where a snapchat was aimed at young people which was a photograph of a text therefore had passed through any check software which didn't perceive the text. It was a poorly spelled article which claimed that Hilary was assassinating FBI folks. This is but a sample of the outright challenge being made to rational discourse, specifically to undermine democracy.

I have read some good Atlantic articles. This is a short shrift from a contributor and I wasn't impressed.

Among the conservatives I know, LGBTQ and interracial relationships are old hat. Among the liberals I know, there is a core of common sense.

The Atlantic article you reference just rehashes the old misperception meme which is true enough, but does not address the high strangeness we are truly in making every attempt to maximize political torsion.

In times like this I go to my old psychological bedrock reference, Star Trek (TOS). There was an episode where some incorporeal aliens gained access to both Federation and Klingon personnel and fed on the hatred it could evoke between them by what we call 'stirring the pot'. At last they were driven off and the Feds and Klings could go on hating each other normally.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: meself
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 12:54 AM

One party supports the separation of children from parents, their warehousing, and their subsequent neglect. The other party opposes same. Fine people on both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 02:28 AM

I have to modify my recent post. I meant Instagram being used as a means of disinformation. Reference story here. Note that when "IRA" is mentioned in that article it refers to an innocuous sounding "Internet Research Agency" but it's a Russian hacking group, according to the article.

Hillary was not a perfect candidate, but prior to the election she'd been identified as the most likely Democratic candidate for 2016 and savagely attacked with anything that might 'stick to the wall.' The Benghazi fantasies flew far and wide and never really made much sense, but they were unrelenting. As for email. It was just email.

On the other hand, the story of how her campaign manager John Podesta got his email account penetrated with a fairly stupid ploy is pretty outrageous. Falling for that and not getting wise to it rapidly is a dumb low-level fail.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 04:01 AM

people electing Trump found the Democratic candidate to be even worse than Trump

Looking from the relative distance of the UK, what did for Hilary was the revelation of her e-mails. Which was from the interference of Russia. And Twitler still claims he never asked Russia. He didn't have to ask, he has minions and Russia would be only too glad to oblige.

And anyone who thinks Fakebook is not a conduit for manipulation, should look to its history. Obama used it to summon the faithful, the Arab Spring. And Russia are past masters at cyber crime and propaganda, and have a vested interest in the result. Make the connection!
There is evidence of refugees earning $1000 a month producing Fake Fakebook accounts and propagating whatever they were told to. Certainly one going public just post the UK referendum, revealing he was not alone.

Other anti-social media are available.

There are psychological techniques to propaganda that you would miss. Like showing horrific pictures is likely to move people towards the right, and it only needs a small percentage to be swayed in a first past the post type election. Large bold typeface, coloured background we know it is shouting but do we spot that or read the message?

These tricks are not about the other side that will refuse to "understand". It is just a nudge in the middle distance of the political landscape.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 09:40 AM

"Evidence, facts and rational argument are all pretty useless when you're dealing with a person who rejects the value of all those things."

And most of the liberals here have rejected ALL facts that they do not apriori agree with.(SRS rule)


Let me see..

Hillary lies to FBI- Nothing happens
Republicans lie to FBI- Jail Time

Hillary intentionally mishandles classified information- Nothing happens
ANYONE ELSE who even unintentionally violates the rules for handling classified information - Jail time


Obama says that Hillary is innocent- Nothing said about it
Truump says his aides were innocent- Liberals say that is interference with the investigation



As a former AISSR and COMSEC Custodian at the Secret level, I do NOT think that the NSA would consider that "As for email. It was just email."


As long as EITHER side is unwilling to LISTEN to the other side, there can be NO resolution of the problems that this country has.


Mossback and his ilk are providing more support for Trump than Trump is capable of getting on his own.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 09:53 AM

Hillary was the best-qualified candidate in decades. But no penis, so, bad and evil were the only arguments against her. Worked, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 09:53 AM

"Hillary lies to FBI- Nothing happens
Republicans lie to FBI- Jail Time"

Trump lies to everybody all the time - will probably be re-elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 09:57 AM

Hillary was a traitor, who put her preferences above
the safety of the United States...

A Traitor? Jesus wept.

The e-mails episode was thoroughly investigated by the FBI which determined there was no criminal wrong-doing.

Of course if one thinks the FBI is 'the enemy of the people' and has no use for the rule of law or 'innocent until proven guilty' as Poor Persecuted Benghazi Bruce apparently does, then all bets are off.

To review:

....you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into. Evidence, facts and rational argument are all pretty useless when you're dealing with a person who rejects the value of all those things.


As a former AISSR and COMSEC Custodian at the Secret level...

WOW Can't begin to tell you how impressed we all are. And of course that makes you infallible. What A Guy!

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 11:20 AM

"Hillary was the best-qualified candidate in decades."

Almost as qualified as Nixon- except he HAD been VP. ASk someone about her being the head of the American Red Cross, and how that went...

Condeleeza Rice would have made a great president, but of course was not a rich Democrat, so she could never run.

https://news.yahoo.com/civil-war-coming-democratic-party-100010457.html

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 11:24 AM

I had to sign the official secrets act..
For a job that involved pushing amputees around in wheelchairs,
and taking them to the toilet.

I'm certainly not at liberty to divulge how I had to accomodate the needs of men who'd lost both arms..

That's how seriously we Brits take secrecy..

oops.. I shouldn't have disclosed that much...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 11:30 AM

Oh, shouldn't that be
'innocent until proven Republican'?

Since that is what those here have been putting forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 11:34 AM

I'm sure you must have some sensible republicans - many most probably.
If I lived in the USA I'd have no problems interacting with them as a friend.
Unless they proved too hostile to knowing me because I'm a not only a bit of a lefty,
but also a limey....

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 11:36 AM

I once extracted a secret decoder ring from a box of cereal. Proud day for me in my young life.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 12:00 PM

Try again:

"WOW Can't begin to tell you how impressed we all are. And of course that makes you infallible. What A Guy!"

No, it means that I have had security training that you seem incapable of understanding.


"Of course if one thinks the FBI is 'the enemy of the people' and has no use for the rule of law or 'innocent until proven guilty'"

Which is what YOU have done:

We now know from the FBI investigation that:

More than 2,000 of the 30,490 emails Clinton turned over to the State Department contained classified information, including 110 emails in 52 email chains that contained classified information at the time they were sent or received. (Most emails were retroactively deemed to contain classified information by the U.S. agencies from which the information originated.)
Some of the emails containing classified information “bore markings indicating the presence of classified information,” contrary to Clinton’s claims that none was marked classified. Comey did not provide a specific number.
“[S]everal thousand work-related emails” were not turned over to the State Department in 2014, but were recovered by the FBI. Comey said “three of those were classified at the time they were sent or received.”
At his July 5 press conference, Comey announced his office will not recommend that charges be brought against Clinton or her staff. But the FBI director said Clinton and her staff “were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.”

“Only a very small number of the emails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information,” Comey said. “But even if information is not marked ‘classified’ in an email, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it.”



I will note that
" Poor Persecuted Benghazi Bruce apparently does, then all bets are off." is ok, but to mention the illustrious Mossback is reason to have a post deleted.

Thank you for demonstrating the Liberal View that Free Sperech is only allowed when the Mudelves agree with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 12:07 PM

I think that anyone who complains out loud that their post has been deleted should be deleted. There's too much of it going on here at the moment. Get a life is my advice. It's not your gig.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 12:23 PM

Thank you for demonstrating the Liberal View that Free Speech is only allowed when the Liberal Authorities agree with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 12:25 PM

"Comey announced his office will not recommend that charges be brought against Clinton or her staff. But the FBI director said Clinton and her staff “were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information."

Sounds a lot like Mueller, but of course you Liberals have all stated that means that Trump should be impeached.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 12:32 PM

Ya know, Secret Agent Bruce, if you actually believed in 'free speech' or even knew what it was, you wouldn't piss and moan so much when someone exercises THEIRS to call you out on the absolute bullshit you post.

And now I'm done with this godforsaken thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 12:42 PM

bearded bruce, you say: "Yet she says "What does it matter?"

You have just been outed- as if there had been any doubt- as dishonest. As you must very well know, that statement is used by dishonest people who hope that no one knows the truth. You have joined the ranks.

I dare you to give the context.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 01:23 PM

Since I was referring to her making fun of the questions about the emails, LET ME REPHRASE:

Hillary was a traitor, who put her preferences above
the safety of the United States while serving in a high level Federal position.
"Classified information is material that a government body deems to be sensitive information that must be protected. Access is
restricted by law or regulation to particular groups of people with the necessary security clearance and need to know, and
intentionally mishandling of the material can incur criminal penalties. A formal security clearance is required to view or handle
classified documents or to access classified data. The clearance process requires a satisfactory background investigation.
Documents and other information must be properly marked by the author with one of several (hierarchical) levels of sensitivity—e.g.
restricted, confidential, secret and top secret. The choice of level is based on an impact assessment; governments have their own
criteria, which include how to determine the classification of an information asset, and rules on how to protect information
classified at each level."

Top Secret is the highest level of classified information. Information is further compartmented so that specific access using
a code word after top secret is a legal way to hide collective and important information. Such material would cause
"exceptionally grave damage" to national security if made publicly available.

Secret material would cause "serious damage" to national security if it were publicly available.

Yet she says makes light of it, and by her joking shows she does not consider the welfare of the United States to be as important as her convenience.


Is that better?

NOW explain how someone who willfully treats classified information in violation of the rules is NOT a traitor?

Comey announced his office will not recommend that charges be brought against Clinton or her staff. But the FBI director said Clinton and her staff “were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information."


That is a kick in the gut to everyone who has ever had a clearance, and protected the information held as expected .

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 01:35 PM

From a British perspective she was a poor candidate.
She looked too much of a liability,
too easy for the opposition to persuade undecided voters to reject her..

We thought, surely the Dems must have better...???

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 01:41 PM

They did, but she bought the Dem leadership. Too bad so many Liberals feel it a requirement to support her- in spite of her proven illegal acts in getting the nomination.

The ONLY person Trump could have beaten was Hillary- so I guess that means they wanted Trump to win.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 06:40 PM

Once again, she beat President Racist Dumbass Misogynist Asshole by 3 million votes so it wasn't the candidate that was lacking it was the antiquated electoral system that is a holdover from the slavery era. Not too hard to understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 06:43 PM

BB: Comey obviously did not find Hillary's behavior criminal. He and the FBI did a thorough going over of her email, including the spill-over/ copies found on her aide's husbands computer. I think that justifies his comment that she could have handled the emails better, but it was emails not secrets.
I'm pretty sure that there were comments to the effect that other highly placed government officials such as Colin Powell, handled their email with less than official discretion.

As for Hillary getting away with something, I think that is obviously fallacious.

I've listened to folks like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and they are not in any manner purveyors of truth. They are similar to The Current Occupant in that they are BSers. They tell neither lie nor truth. They continually toss stuff at the wall until something sticks. They've been doing it for years. I think there is an atmosphere of contempt on their parts for anyone who either bothers to argue against such obvious crap and even a little more for those who swallow it whole.... Remember Trump's "I love the uneducated!" No lie there.

Now BB: you might just be spinning up folks your own self, so I'm not going to get into a whole 'thing' with you here. There is plenty wrong with some of the so-called Liberals out there, there is a maximizing of 'identity politics', a fresh term for an old and legitimate practice, which borders on racism. But that is relatively minor in the totality of American politics.

Besides, harping on Hillary is a loser's tactic IMHO. It's a clear diversive tactic on the part of the FOX bloviators who are constantly drawing attention from Trump using the argument: "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"

I think you're better than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 06:45 PM

Maybe a better candidate mght have won by a far more decisive and indesputable majority...???

We couldn't help thinking the Dems had let down all of us in the rest of the world...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 08:01 PM

I stated that

"No, one can only conclude that the people electing Trump found the Democratic candidate to be even worse than Trump."

Can ANY of you find real fault with that statement, to justify the abuse heaped on me?

YOUR opinion of Hillary is just fine- you want to elect someone who has demonstrated her disdain for the US, and her support of her husband rape of women, do so.

But the comments made here about Trump indicate many have a double standard, and chastise him for actions that the same poster permits Hillary to get away with unremarked.



"Comey obviously did not find Hillary's behavior criminal"

Or felt he could not go against the sitting President who had declared her innocence before the investigation even started.    (JUST like Trump did with his aides who lied to the FBI ( As Hillary did, according to the FBI https://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/clintons-handling-of-classified-information/   -- but it is impeachable for Trump, and acceptable for Obama, right?)

As Mueller did not find Trump's behavior to be criminal- but the Dems want to impeach him anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 09:36 PM

I think you're better than that.

Obviously an erroneous conclusion, Robo, as 08:01 PM demonstrates, and as will succeeding fact-free bloviations.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jun 19 - 11:39 PM

I didn't know Bill Clinton had been convicted of rape, or even was suspected of it.

Over in England he's still rather respected for heping to bring peace to Northern Ireland.

As a young man he studied in England as a Rhodes scholar ( as Kris Kristoferson had), people who knew him thought he was of good character.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: meself
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 12:17 AM

So - what the Republican monsters are doing to the children at the border is okay because - Hilary, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 10:18 AM

Dunno what happened there so I'll try again: what "rape of women," Bruce? Care to elaborate?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 10:22 AM

Just one of Super-Security Bruce's "alternative facts", Steve. Points up the truthiness of the rest of his bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 10:55 AM

As an experienced bureaucrat and trained historian who spent her entire working life in or near the belly of the security state, I am here to tell you this very important truth:

To a very large extent, information security programs -- including COMSEC -- are excellent examples of the famous self-licking ice cream cone.

And yes, I have been a COMSEC custodian. I have also been through the NSA operations security course, and served on the OPSEC working group at a military operational headquarters.

But for many years I earned my living declassifying old military operational records. From that experience, I learned that nothing is quite so dead as an overtaken-by-events military or diplomatic secret, and the only reason most governments want to restrict such information is that it often shows that Our Fearless Leaders can be credulous goofs.

As for Hillary and her emails, yawn.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 11:21 AM

Say it ain't so, Charmion! You'll wound poor little Superpatriot Security Brucie's fragile ego & surely make him cry!

Or at least rant, which is much worse for everyone..

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:08 PM

Charmion,

And your thought on those people who willfully violate the rules established by the NSA? What is your opinion on that- The information that Hillary exposed was current, and in many cases ( NOT ALL) was not even classified until AFTER she had gotten it. The exposure of THAT information can even be waved away- but the information taht she received as classified, and then exposed ( at all levels, including TS) deserves to, and in the case of anyone else would have, gotten multiple 5 year terms of jail time.

Right?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:11 PM

People who knew Desert Storm had started told me they found out because "we sat at the end of the flightline and watched the planes take off".

As for this thread, it's one of those things I can observe, but not feel involved in. Mostly, this shit is a wear sado-masochistic circle jerk with Bruce as the pivot man. "Oh feed me more shit, so I can respond, and feel special."

Have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: meself
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:12 PM

What they're doing to the children pales beside what Hillary did to those poor emails!

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:13 PM

For anyone who even bothers to look at facts:

Broaddrick, who was known as Juanita Hickey at the time, first met Clinton when he made a visit to her nursing home during his 1978 gubernatorial campaign. Clinton was the Arkansas Attorney General at the time. Broaddrick wanted to volunteer for the campaign, and says Clinton invited her to stop by the campaign office in Little Rock.[12] She said she contacted the office a few weeks later while in the area for a nursing home conference and that Clinton said he would not be in the campaign office that day and suggested they meet at her hotel's coffee shop instead. Upon his arrival, however, he allegedly requested that they instead have coffee in her room to avoid a crowd of reporters in the lobby, and Broaddrick agreed.[3]

Broaddrick said the two spoke briefly in her room, with Clinton describing plans he had to renovate a prison visible from her window if he became governor. Then, according to Broaddrick, Clinton suddenly kissed her. Broaddrick says she pushed Clinton away and told him she was married and not interested, but he persisted. As recounted in the NBC interview:[3]

Then he tries to kiss me again. And the second time he tries to kiss me he starts biting my lip ... He starts to, um, bite on my top lip and I tried to pull away from him. And then he forces me down on the bed. And I just was very frightened, and I tried to get away from him and I told him 'No,' that I didn't want this to happen but he wouldn't listen to me. ... It was a real panicky, panicky situation. I was even to the point where I was getting very noisy, you know, yelling to 'Please stop.' And that's when he pressed down on my right shoulder and he would bite my lip. ... When everything was over with, he got up and straightened himself, and I was crying at the moment and he walks to the door, and calmly puts on his sunglasses. And before he goes out the door he says 'You better get some ice on that.' And he turned and went out the door.

When asked if there was any way Clinton could have thought it was consensual, Broaddrick said "No, not with what I told him and with how I tried to push him away. It was not consensual."[3]

Broaddrick shared the hotel room with her friend and employee Norma Rogers. Rogers attended a conference seminar that morning, and says she returned to their room to find Broaddrick on the bed "in a state of shock", with her pantyhose torn in the crotch and her lip swollen as though she had been hit. Rogers says Broaddrick told her Clinton had "forced himself on her".[12] Rogers helped Broaddrick ice her lip, and then the women left Little Rock. Rogers said that Broaddrick was very upset on the way home and blamed herself for letting Clinton in the room.[3] Broaddrick says she did not tell her husband, Gary Hickey, about the incident, and told him she accidentally injured her lip. He told NBC he did not remember the injury or her explanation.[3][13] David Broaddrick, however, has said he noticed her injured lip, and she told him that Clinton had raped her when he asked about it. Three other friends confirmed that Broaddrick had told them about the incident at the time: Susan Lewis; Louis Ma; and Jean Darden, Norma Rogers' sister.[3] Broaddrick did not recall the date of the alleged incident, but said it was spring of 1978 and that she had stayed in the Camelot Hotel. Records show Broaddrick attended a nursing home meeting at the Camelot Hotel in Little Rock on April 25, 1978.[3][13] The Clinton White House would not respond to requests for Clinton's official schedule for the date,[14] but news reports suggest that he was in Little Rock that day, with no official commitments in the morning.[3]

Three weeks after the alleged assault, Broaddrick participated in a small Clinton fundraiser at the home of a local dentist. Broaddrick said she was "in denial" and felt guilty, thinking that she had given Clinton the wrong idea by letting him into her room.[3] When she arrived at the event, she says, her friend who had picked the Clintons up from the airport told her that Hillary Clinton had asked if she would be at the event. Broaddrick says Bill Clinton did not speak to her at the event, but Hillary Clinton approached her, took her hand, and said "I just want you to know how much Bill and I appreciate what you do for him." When Broaddrick moved her hand away, she says, Hillary Clinton held on to her and said, "Do you understand? Everything that you do." Broaddrick says she felt nauseated and left the gathering. Broaddrick says she interpreted the incident as Hillary Clinton thanking her for keeping quiet.[15][16][17]

***

Caitlin Flanagan of The Atlantic wrote "Yet let us not forget the sex crimes of which the younger, stronger Bill Clinton was very credibly accused in the 1990s. Juanita Broaddrick reported that ..." before recapping the case.[44] During an NPR interview Flanagan said, "And so there were a series of women throughout the course of his presidency who came forward with accounts of things they said he did to them which really mirror the kinds of things we're looking at now in the very worst of the cases. Juanita Broaddrick, most prominently, said that he raped her very violently in a way that is quite like the Harvey Weinstein accusations in terms of the hotel room and the suddenness and the bleak horror of it all."[45]

Goldberg wrote an op-ed in The New York Times entitled "I Believe Juanita", where she said, "In this #MeToo moment, when we're reassessing decades of male misbehavior and turning open secrets into exposes, we should look clearly at the credible evidence that Juanita Broaddrick told the truth when she accused Clinton of raping her. But revisiting the Clinton scandals in light of today's politics is complicated as well as painful."[46]

Following the allegations made against Alabama senate candidate Roy Moore, Broaddrick said, "All victims matter. It doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or a Republican ... We all have the right to be believed."[47]

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:23 PM

DDSS

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:24 PM

Meself,

The Dems are responsible for a large part of the suffering of the immigrants, ant the deaths and rapes of many of those illegally trying to enter. THAY have refused to fund the border security, have encouraged illegal immigration by refusing to allow enforcement of the law, and effectively told the world that anyone can come here and not bother going through our ( very easy) border checkpoints.

I am in favor of immigration, and will invite in those who ask to come here.

I am against those who try to break in to our country illegally, as I am against those who would enter a house through the window or break down a door without invitation. Same principle-
If you lock your door when you leave, or at night, you are a hypocrite to demand open borders.

When I travel to foreign nations, I have a passport and visa, if required, and GO THROUGH A PORT OF ENTRY. Tell me what country does NOT have greater security of it's borders than the US.

When I last went to Canada, I had to prove I had sufficient funds to last the duration of my trip. Should I sneak over the border and expect them to be OK with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:26 PM

Dems.. please, the rest of the saner parts of the world
implore you to field a more electable candidate next time...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:30 PM

Just for the record, here is the context and the exact words that Hillary Clinton said in that hearing: "With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided that they’d they go kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, senator. Now, honestly, I will do my best to answer your questions about this, but the fact is that people were trying in real time to get to the best information. The IC has a process, I understand, going with the other committees to explain how these talking points came out. But you know, to be clear, it is, from my perspective, less important today looking backwards as to why these militants decided they did it than to find them and bring them to justice, and then maybe we’ll figure out what was going on in the meantime."

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:32 PM

Trump CANNOT win the next election on his merits, BUT he can win if the Dems keep at their present course, and continue as only being anti-Trump and not pro-America. Right now, it is the Dems who are the party of hate, not the Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:37 PM

Ebbie,
Just for the record, I took the phrase YOU see as a problem out of my statement. Please read what I wrote. 25 Jun 19 - 01:23 PM

Charmion,
"overtaken-by-events military or diplomatic secret"- I agree, but these were NOT in that category- they concerned schedules of FUTURE travel and information that endangered CURRENT information sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 01:40 PM

Sorry, punkfolkrocker
'The Democratic Party is working very hard to find the perfect candidate- as in 2016, when they were "persuaded" by illegal action on her part to run Hillary, who was the ONLY person in the party who Trump could beat.

Watch them and weep.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 02:16 PM

WEEP INDEED
NOT A LOT OF TEARS HERE - GOD BLESS AMERICA

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: meself
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 03:39 PM

"When I last went to Canada, I had to prove I had sufficient funds to last the duration of my trip. Should I sneak over the border and expect them to be OK with that?"

No - but I would demand, if necessary, that you be treated humanely. And if you were a toddler, I would demand that you be kept with your mother, and be kept clean, warm, and fed.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 03:58 PM

If you sneak over the border into Canada in the dead of winter and call 911 because you’re African and freezing to death, they will stay on the phone with you until the cops arrive with blankets and coffee in a thermos.

Truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 04:05 PM

Bruce, you mention five-year prison terms for security breaches.

Not in this country.

In Canada, you don’t go to prison for a security breach unless and until the prosecution can prove that the unauthorized release of sensitive information caused actual harm.

Wild indignation from government officials and party apparatchiks does not constitute “actual harm”.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 04:05 PM

So when a person commits a crime, their children should be incarcerated with them? That was ruled out by Liberal judges, hence the children being separated from parents. Yes, they should be taken care of, but that requires funds the Dems have not been willing to allocate for Border security.

And in Canada, after they save me, they would either arrest me or ship me out of the country.

Sort of like the US policies that the Liberals here are complaining about.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 04:15 PM

In the US, the NSA training stated up to 5 years for each occurrence.


The enlisted man who served time for taking a selfie with his girlfriend (authorized on-board visit) that had classified equipment in the background would like to have been in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 05:03 PM

Jeri, how bloody right you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 05:59 PM

From Jim's clicky:

"President Donald Trump's administration has for months warned that the US immigration system was at a "breaking point". The administration has asked for $4.5bn in emergency humanitarian funding and for Congress to change laws that would allow agencies to detain families longer and deport them more quickly.

Many immigration detention facilities are overflowing and unequipped to house families with young children, especially as the numbers of families crossing the US-Mexico border surge to record highs. The Border Patrol made 99,000 apprehensions on the southern border just in April. More than half were parents and children travelling together. "


Yet the Dems refused to fund it, for political reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 06:08 PM

Or humanitarian reasons. We all know how to decide, except for you. And didn't your hallowed nation exploit, shamelessly, expediently, terribly, Mexicans to pick your fruit then send them home forcing them to pay the fare that exactly matched what they'd earned? We of the former British Empire know exactly how these paybacks work...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 06:33 PM

"didn't your hallowed nation exploit, shamelessly, expediently, terribly, Mexicans to pick your fruit then send them home forcing them to pay the fare that exactly matched what they'd earned?"

Not heard of that. I wonder when it was, and who had that idea?

Got any details or supporting information?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:07 PM

You need to get out more, mate. Your country and mine are a bit shit when it comes to exploiting "foreigners" then ditching them when they become inconvenient. Face it.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:27 PM

Once again we seem to be stranded on the rocky headlands of linguistic differences.

Biting people would be regarded as an unpleasant personal defect and biting someone without their willing consent to being bitten could get you in trouble with the law in England.

However, rape is a somwhat different offence in English common usage, and jurisprudence.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:29 PM

As I said,

Not heard of that. I wonder when it was, and who had that idea?

Got any details or supporting information?


I do NOT disagree with your statement, but am asking for information on this particular situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:33 PM

" with her pantyhose torn in the crotch"

"she told him that Clinton had raped her when he asked about it. "

"When everything was over with, he got up and straightened himself, and I was crying at the moment and he walks to the door, and calmly puts on his sunglasses"

"When asked if there was any way Clinton could have thought it was consensual, Broaddrick said "No, not with what I told him and with how I tried to push him away. It was not consensual."[3]"


Sorry if she did not provide all the details for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 19 - 09:46 PM

So let's have the details of the actual conviction. I know how hard you're working on this. But you made a pretty clear allegation. So let's have your facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 12:54 AM

Once again - putting on sunglasses - possibly reprehensible.....;
tearing panty hose at the crotch...if Bill tried anyhing like that with my pantyhose, I'd be furious....

In England, rape means.....oh never mind Bruce...ask your Mum about these things.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 02:13 AM

""President Donald Trump's administration has for months warned that the US immigration system was at a "breaking point"."
A country based on wiping out the native population in order to make room for immigrants fleeing poverty and persecution, herding immigrants into camps and allowing them to die of starvation and disease.... !!!!!!
Almost as ludicrous as the only country to have used weapons of mass destruction against civilians (to a massive and devastating effect) telling other countries that are not to be trusted with weapons of mass destruction   
Don't think so - on either counts
America is now in th hands of an unstable, self-serving extremist with his finger on the nuclear trigger and the future of the planet relies on putting him back in his cage before he destroys it
Understanding today's world politics really doesn't get any more complicated than that and all roads to that understanding lead back to the padded cell in the White House
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 05:04 AM

Amen.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 12:07 PM

Big Al,

I think that the definition of rape is the same here, and used to mean actual sexual attack.



"David Broaddrick, however, has said he noticed her injured lip, and she told him that Clinton had raped her when he asked about it. Three other friends confirmed that Broaddrick had told them about the incident at the time: Susan Lewis; Louis Ma; and Jean Darden, Norma Rogers' sister.[3]"


"Broaddrick said that after the assault, Clinton told her not to worry about pregnancy because childhood mumps had rendered him sterile.[7] When contacted about the issue, Gennifer Flowers, who Clinton later admitted to a sexual relationship with, also said that Clinton had thought he couldn't have children.[24]"

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 12:20 PM

THen it's ok to be a rapist, sexist antisemite President as long as you can pin similar behaviour on other politicians
Is 'whataboutism' part of "understanding the other political side" ?
Never understand in a thousand years how someone who screams 'Jew hater' as often as some people do can take up that political side
Beyond me

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 12:32 PM

No Jim, it NOT OK.

But the LAW is supposed to treat even Democrats and Republicans by the same standard.

We do not have an exempt class of Liberals who are not required to follow the same rules as they want everyone else to follow.

If you need a double standard in order to be able to complain about the flaws of your opposition, you have a serious problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:01 PM

I had stated:

"No, one can only conclude that the people electing Trump found the Democratic candidate to be even worse than Trump."

Can ANY of you find real fault with that statement, to justify the abuse heaped on me?

YOUR opinion of Hillary is just fine- you want to elect someone who has demonstrated her disdain for the US, and her support of her husband rape of women, do so.

But the comments made here about Trump indicate many have a double standard, and chastise him for actions that the same poster permits Hillary to get away with unremarked.




It seems to me that everyone now says that Trump has deficiencies- I agree, but AT THE TIME OF THE ELECTION, Hillary's flaws were already KNOWN.

From the Liberal Godhead:

"Getting rid of Trumpshit won't accomplish a thing unless we can get rid of the 62,984,828 fuckwits who originally voted for him"


So I can REASONABLY state that there were at least that many ( according to LIBERAL claims) fuck-wits who voted for Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:25 PM

"But the LAW is supposed to treat even Democrats and Republicans by the same standard."
Clinton was ruined for having consensual sex - Trump was elected after being seen of film advocating sexual assault because "that's what women expect"
Very equal, , I'm sure
Clinton's sexual behaviour was "allaged" and unproven, Trump wears his like a male badge of honour
Now anti semitic Trump has been accused of rape you leap to his defence - I can see you and your ilk have a well balanced set of priorities
Anybody with that set of values deserves every bit as much abuse as the shit he's defending
Funny how American Patriots seem happy to see their country defined by such scum - beyond me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:32 PM

Clinton ruined?

You have not been keeping up with the news.

"Now anti semitic Trump has been accused of rape you leap to his defence "

OK, let me see...
1) while SOME of his supporters are anti Semetic, so are some of the elected Democrats.
2) **I** have never defended him against accusations of rape ( unlike Liberals and Clinton). I have stated they should be investigated and THE TRUTH DETERMINED.

BUT he should have the SAME level of scrutiny that the Liberals insisted on in the case of another President, Clinton. Otherwise, there is a double standard.

Even YOU should be able to understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:40 PM

How much of the present day shitshow is to do with the ealy white invaders who populated and built America,
being the mad religious cult fanatics rejected & ejected by Europe;
and forced to flee to the new world...???

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:48 PM

Your whataboutism is defence enough - his praise for the Charlottesville marchers would have had you screaming yourself hoarse if anybody else had done it
American politicians are known fro their sexual peccadilloes - the Kennedys, Johnson... all at it like rabbits
Most have had the good sense to do it in private - Trump and his 'golden showers' has made them a spectator sport   
"1) while SOME of his supporters are anti Semitic, so are some of the elected Democrats."
More whataboutism - it appears the Jewish People are no longer an issue with you
The word is Semitic by the way - shows just how important the subject is

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:51 PM

It appears that you have a hair up your ass. You should look (further) into that.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:57 PM

”I think that the definition of rape is the same here, and used to mean actual sexual attack.”

Then your understanding of the definition of rape is seriously deficient. ‘Grabbing them by the pussy’ can be ‘sexual attack’, but it is not rape.

A bit of reading for you to educate yourself on the Sexual Offences Act 2003

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 01:58 PM

Don't try using finger nail scissors for that...
I did once 45 years ago.. and never will again...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 02:54 PM

"It appears that you have a hair up your ass"
LEST WE FORGET - as you have chosen to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:00 PM

It's dead simple, Bruce. If Clinton was a rapist, he would have been tried, found guilty and locked up. If you can prove he is guilty of rape then I suggest you contact the authorities and give them your evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:05 PM

And if Trump was a rapist, it would already have been tried, so he is JUST as innocent as Clinton.


RIGHT?????


Are you saying that Clinton would not have pulled his political muscle to get it ignored? If so, than how can Liberals complain about Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:08 PM

I have not accused anyone of rape, Bruce. You have. I have nothing to prove. You have. Feel free.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:27 PM

So, you will admit that Trump is as innocent as Bill Clinton?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:49 PM

If there are rumours that 2 powefull wealthy men are guilty of rape and got away with it..
I'd want further investigations of both of them,
no matter how protected by inner circle they may be...

Harvey has started the balls rolling...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 03:52 PM

BOTH of them I would agree with.

To single EITHER out and ignore the other is a simple double standard.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:03 PM

Trump is hardly "innocent".

There are thirteen - not one - (or maybe more, by now?) instances in which he's apparently sexually assaulted women in one way or another AND MAKES JOKES ABOUT IT.

So lets apply Bruce logic:

Accused by one person: Almost certainly guilty.
Accused by 13 people: Almost certainly innocent.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:11 PM

Accused by more than half a dozen- almost certainly needs investigation, EVEN WHEN HE IS A DEMOCRAT.

BOTH of them paid off accusers. BUT YOU ##### Liberals are OK with that, as long as he is a Democrat.


You, Mossback, have lied about me. I STATED THAT BOTH SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED.


Care to tell how much the Clintons have paid you, or what they are blackmailing you with? Or are you just as fucked-up stupid as you come across in your posts???

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:18 PM

Care to tell how much the Clintons have paid you, or what they are blackmailing you with? Or are you just as fucked-up stupid as you come across in your posts??

Be happy to tell you, Bruce, if you tell ME how much you pay Joe not to delete your constant, foul-mouthed personal attacks on all & sundry.

Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:29 PM

Clinton's accusers were complelely believable, and if you think that his guilt means he'd'a been tried then you have never lived in (or followed the news in) the States. Of *course* he wasn't arrested. Doesn't for a minute even *imply* he was innocent. Remember, this was something like 20 years before MeToo.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 04:29 PM

I have never made any attacks on ANYONE who did not attack me first.

You have searched out my posts and deliberately attacked me. Your posts are far nastier and unwarranted than anything I post.



"constant, foul-mouthed personal attacks on all & sundry."

I think you are looking in a mirror, in this post of yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 05:12 PM

You have searched out my posts and deliberately attacked me.

Sorry Bruce, but no. Everything isn't all about YOU, and the world does not revolve around you, nor does the sun shine out of your arse.

I don't have to "search out" your posts; you spew them in most every thread at one point or another. Its difficult to avoid them.

I don't attack YOU, I attack . If you can cite instances of personal attacs, IN CONTEXT, by all means do so.

I have never made any attacks on ANYONE who did not attack me first.

Nonsense. You know it,I know it, and the rest of the folks on here know it as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 05:22 PM

What astonishes me is the fact that anyone can be bothered to interact with him. Trying to have a sensible discussion with people like BB is like trying to knit fog - pointless and impossible.

Don’t feed the troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 05:28 PM

"I don't attack YOU, I attack ."

A mad dog should not be surprised to be kicked after it bites several times.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 05:51 PM

So, you will admit that Trump is as innocent as Bill Clinton?

Of rape, yes. They are both guilty of sexual misconduct. As far as I am aware Clinton is not guilty of being a self-serving, over inflated egoist with the empathy and compassion of a common slug. Trump has proven himself to be just that.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:05 PM

As far as you are aware.... Have you spent the time looking at the accusations against Clinton and his activities equal to the time the MSM has been telling you to think that about Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political sidook e
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:08 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:14 PM

A position of high power such a potus*
will never be attained by the nicest people on the planet...
They need to be at least a bit of a ruthless sociopath to win it..




[*errrm.. are the more elderly presidents impotus...???]

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:22 PM

Apologies, all;   27 Jun 19 - 05:12 PM got garbled somehow. Spell check? Glitch? Anyway, corrected copy below.

You have searched out my posts and deliberately attacked me.

Sorry Bruce, but no. Everything isn't all about YOU, and the world does not revolve around you, nor does the sun shine out of your arse.

I don't have to "search out" your posts; you spew them in most every thread at one point or another. Its difficult to avoid them.

I don't attack YOU, I attack the bullshit you post for what it is. If you can cite instances of personal attacks by me upon you, IN CONTEXT, by all means do so.

I have never made any attacks on ANYONE who did not attack me first.

Nonsense. You know it, I know it, and the rest of the folks on here know it as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:29 PM

Repeating your lie does not make it true. Who do you think you are, Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump??

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:29 PM

What an incredibly stupid thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:40 PM

As you are one who contributed 10% of the posts, what does that say?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:49 PM

It says that I have far too much tolerance for idiots like you. The thread should be closed. After all, you old mate Joe closed his out of sheer embarrassment after being exposed for making a very silly call via his awful song. I think you should petition him to do the same for this shambles. We don't mind, honest. Honest, which is more than you are...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 06:50 PM

Well, Steve, the problem is that its drifted off topic.

We need to get back to Yascha & Bruce's original thesis, to whit:

"Being ignorant and stupid actually makes you really smart, and the better educated and informed you are the the more stupid and ignorant you get."

I guess that just keeps going around in circles forever........

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:16 PM

"It says that I have far too much tolerance for idiots like you."

If I WAS an idiot, I would always agree with Mossback and you.

Sorry you have reading and comprehension problems, Mossy


"What is corroding American politics is, specifically, negative partisanship: Although most liberals feel conflicted about the Democratic Party, they really hate the Republican Party. And even though most conservatives feel conflicted about the Republican Party, they really hate the Democratic Party.

America’s political divisions are driven by hatred of an out-group rather than love of the in-group. The question is: Why?"

You seem to be determined to justify the Republican viewpoint.

All by yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:17 PM

Also, much as I dislike them both, Trump is not the GOP.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:22 PM

What I've never understood is how a continent of 50 odd states
that is so obsessed with democracy,
can allow a single person to abuse the position of president
as though he is an absolute Monarch...???

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:25 PM

And Hillary was not the Democratic Party, although she rented it for the last election.


I should correct my post:

Mossy,

You seem to be determined to justify the conservative viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:29 PM

pfr,

It is simple- as long as we have folks like Mossback saying
"From: Mossback - PM
Date: 19 Jun 19 - 09:14 PM

Getting rid of Trumpshit won't accomplish a thing unless we can get rid of the 62,984,828 fuckwits who originally voted for him and more importantly the utter fuckwits that account for his current 40% - 45% approval rating."

The choice is between Trump and something worse.

I just wonder if Mossy will be happy to just keep us from the polling stations, or if he has more active plans.

I am not accepting any train reservations from his ilk.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:34 PM

BeardyB - no that's not a proper answer to a serious question...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:40 PM

You've got what you want, Brucie. A thread that grandstands your incredibly daft and infantile take on US politics, peppered with lies about rapes that you simply can't substantiate. Your opponents are laughing at you and your friends are clenching their buttocks in embarrassment. Nice work. Now have an early night is my advice. I hope your teddy bear doesn't look too much like Joe... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:45 PM

Actually, it is.

As I have posted, it is impossible for Trump to win on his own merits- but the Democrats can offend enough of the larger middle that would then vote AGAINST the Democrat, and hence for Trump. Happened last time, looks like it will happen again.


Until the Liberals get the idea that others have opinions and do not take kindly to being declared "utter fuckwits" for daring to not agree with a far Left ( by US standards) plan.

Just look at the accusations by Mossy on Joe Offer, for NOT treating those that disagree with him like total shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 07:48 PM

My post was in reply to PFR


As for Steve, I did not here any comments about the accusations against Trump that had far LESS supporting evidence.

Seems like you like to pick and choose your facts even more than Trump does.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 08:05 PM

You appear to not realise that I give not a flying fart. The amusement is over. Further adherence to this risible thread will have me questioning my own sanity. Nighty night, and don't let Joe The Ted bite...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 08:33 PM

So join the rest of us in questioning your sanity.

Sleep well.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 09:29 PM

Steve,

When you come back all rested and bright-eyed, perhaps YOU can substantiate your accusation, since you complained about me ( after I gave you the information, no less)


Date: 26 Jun 19 - 06:33 PM

"didn't your hallowed nation exploit, shamelessly, expediently, terribly, Mexicans to pick your fruit then send them home forcing them to pay the fare that exactly matched what they'd earned?"

Not heard of that. I wonder when it was, and who had that idea?

Got any details or supporting information?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 09:30 PM

Do the words " you simply can't substantiate." ring a bell?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jun 19 - 11:20 PM

Dang, Bruce, I thought from the first message that you had finally come to understand and respect the rest of us, and then quickly you moved back to wanting Hillary in Prison and Trump on the Golden Throne.

All that "Hillary for Prison" stuff is kind of a moot point by now, not that it ever had much weight. She did the best she could about Benghazi, in an impossible situation. Her "What does it matter?" remark has been twisted in so many ways, that nobody seems to remember its original context. I heard the remark in context, and it seemed to me that she was expressing anguish at the loss of people who were working for her and wondering why this was a time for her questioners to be working to make political hay off the tragedy.

As for the email question, were Hillary's emails stolen by anyone, by any foreign power or by Wikileaks or somebody? Don't agency heads have authority to make policy regarding the security of their agencies' communications? She may not have followed procedures exactly, and for that she might be blamed for carelessness or failure to follow rules - but treason? No, I don't think it's treason.

And for that matter, the security of Hillary's email seems to have been better than the failed security of the communications of most federal agencies, including my own.

But anyhow, Bruce, I'm disappointed that you haven't come to understand us. We're very nice people. So are you....much of the time.

-Joe-

P.S. Bruce, you may have had security training, and that's nice. I gave security training, and conducted security clearance investigations for 25 years....and I'm not particularly impressed by people who say they had security training, even if they are nice people.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 01:46 AM

‘Treason’ and ‘traitor’ are words bandied freely about far too frequently by Right-Wing Extremists and Fascists nowadays. Especially when many of those bandying them about can’t even spell them.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 03:54 AM

I would like to thank Bruce. He has given me great joy by proving that the USA has its fair share of knobheads as well. It makes me feel much better to realise that it is not purely a UK phenomenon.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 04:11 AM

What i could never understand about the Hillary/e-mails thing, is what were the the White House security thinking about?

Surely people in that sort of position should have their net presence ringfenced , firewalled, mott and baillied and totally secure. Sheer carelessness, I think is unacceptable.

Its like that idiot we hho was discovered putting top secret documents into a waste paper bin in Hyde Park.

If the individuals themselves are not bright enough to observe security procedures(and lets face it we're staring into a future with Boris Johnson and Donald Trump as head honchos), there is still no excuse. Our security services should have the situation covered. That's what we pay them for - a degree of professionalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 04:48 AM

Strange to see you bewailing the impending PM-ship of Bozo the Buffoon, Al - I’d have expected you to be dancing a jig at the prospect of a Hard-Brexshit-Crackpot taking the helm to drive the ship hard onto the rocks with the likelihood of catastrophic damage below the waterline...perhaps even a total loss. He’s the BrexShitters wet-dream, I’d have thought?

And, rather than indulging old Fuzzy-Face, everyone would do better to ignore him. He’s obviously an attention-seeking Billy-No-Mates who posts provocative horse-puckey here in order to get a reaction from normal people then, when they run rings around him and make him look the fool he is, he plays the victim to try for attention by that route. He reminds me of the skinny, inadequate kid who gets no attention at home, so he goes to school and gives lip to the school bully because even a beating from the bully is attention **of a sort**, and therefore an ‘improvement’ on being ignored by his folks.

Hes a troll, and best ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 05:09 AM

we'll see BWM, nothing is quite what it seems.

I envy your certainty about the rightness of Remain. Everything that has happened since joining back in 74 seems bloody awful. I voted against it then. The collapse of manufacturing, beggars on the street, dysfunctional families, hard drugs

As far as Boris is concerned, I wouldn't trust anyone with those sort of right wing credentials. One thing is certain - and I'm not sure he has any intention of enacting Brexit. Remember May saying Brexit means Brexit - well it didn't
Boris won't be doing anything for honourable reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 05:47 AM

The collapse of manufacturing, beggars on the street, dysfunctional families, hard drugs

And these are the fault of the EU because?

If you are blaming the EU for them why not give the EU credit for unrelated good things as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:01 AM

News to me that there weren't beggars on the street before 1974. What was that Charles Dickens thinking, writing all that stuff about problems which didn't exist then. As for dysfuncional families, you can't have done any family history research if you think that is a new problem. And that stuff about opium dens in the 19th and early 20th century, all made up. And what was the other one? Collapse of manufacturing? We all know why that was, and it wasn't in 1974 and wasn't to do with the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:27 AM

the fault of EU. Yes I believe it is.

I'd worked in industry for Aveling Barford - a highly profitable section of British Leyland.

When I saw the regulations about not not subsidising British industry, I knew back then in 74, that we would be in shit alley.

I watched it unfold - pretty much as I expected. Industries like textiles, and much else going down like dominoes. Those beggars on the street - a generation worked in factories and the only worry was paying for the fitted carpets in their council houses.
Later I worked as a musician in Europe - not the posh folk middleclass fantasy world/ MU rates section - the tough treat people like shit, crooked publishers norm, hard gigging end. And I saw the protectionism that our EU (ho ho!) partners practised. The regulations are a joke.

Just in case you haven't noticed those pricks in Brussels are talking to themselves, and its only us who are stupid enough to listen.

Brexit should mean Brexit because it won't. The constituencies voting for Brexit are the walking wounded of the EU - not tory ones. Whatever Boris says - he doesn't mean it. Its like Thatcher on capital punishment - its window dressing.

Sorry to go on - but I had to get out of the Brexit thread. The abuse was insufferable and being called a Brexshitter. Those are my sincere opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:38 AM

the fault of EU. Yes I believe it is.

Well, I and many others don't. Who is right?

Carry on blaming the EU by all means but don't expect anyone to believe you. The global economy has drastically shifted since 1974. How is that the fault of the EU? Manufacturing in the USA decreased dramatically since 1974. How is that the fault of the EU? I suppose that climate change, the fact that pop music is not as good nowadays and my knees starting to ache are the fault of the EU as well.

You are making the age old mistake of seeing a result and finding something to blame it on. And picking the wrong reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:41 AM

I was around in the 60s and early 70s, and there were a lot more beggars on the street than there are now. Maybe there were more in the 80s, but I was in different countries then. And the solution with British industry was and is to make it productive, not subsidise it. And there have been many programmes to make industry more productive, some even funded by the EU through the Framework programmes and now Horizon2020. I saw the difference that ERDF made to Merseyside. Liverpool was the city of the Boys from the Blackstuff, and now with EU help it has many new, thriving industries. Britain has to compete at the things it is good at, not the things it is rubbish at. And the EU is there to help.

Despite Thatcherism in the intervening years, Britain is an infinitely more prosperous place than it was in 1973.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 06:52 AM

Oh, and one more thing, Al. If the EU is responsible for the demise of British industry, would you care to give us an estimate of how long it will take to re-establish it once we leave the EU?

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 07:36 AM

No I don't expect you to believe me, Dave. Its not a question of belief. I just explained what I saw happen. Its not an abstract concept. I do not wish to persuade you (convert you like rabid preacher)- just explain my thoughts on the matter.

To repair the damage done by the EU (even to just our marine environment) will take decades - and much more morally upright politicians than are presently in evidence.. But the the longest journey starts with one step.

I was born 1949 . I remember 60's, 70's and indeed the 1950's with clarity.

I remember the Streets of London gang round Trafalgar Square, but the other places I lived in, London, Birmingham, Tamworth, Grantham, Boston - Lincs - were pretty much free of beggars - prior to Thatcher taking a wild pleasure in applyine EU regulations to our industry and closing down 28% of manufacturing industry in 1980-81.

FRom then on - you wouldn't couldn't find a town in England without beggars. The very institution of Big Issue in that era is testimony to the veracity of my recollection.

I'm sorry if you were living in some place twinned with New Delhi - but beggars were a rarity in this country pre THatcher for most of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 07:40 AM

I just explained what I saw happen.

No you didn't. You saw an industry go into decline and blamed one thing for it.

Now that is "an abstract concept".

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 07:45 AM

People who sell the Big Issue are not beggars.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 08:15 AM

Sorry Dave . Predicted it . Saw it. It was bleeding obvious it was going to happen. And I didn't see one industry go into decline. I saw many industries exterminated by governments who latched onto and adopted the idea joyfully that they bore no responsibility for the health of our industries. Remember Thatcher - you can't buck the market...ring any bells?

the Isabel barnett types on Any Questions type shows were saying -'when we join the common market, there will be more opera houses, and we will start to appreciate European culture instead of these ghastly beat groups....'

Then as now, the debate was dominated by our ghastly upper classes, and their deep conviction that they know everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 08:59 AM

So it was our own governments and the ruling classes in the U.K. wot dun it then, using 'EU Rules' as a scapegoat? You've just said exactly what we've been telling you for the past three years, FFS!

You BrexShitters are like the farmer in Keith Marsden's 'Prospect, Providence', who kicks his sheep because the mill-workers buggered up the weaving of the cloth.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 09:33 AM

RE: 27 Jun 19 - 11:20 PM :

Somewhat encouraging, but way too little, and much, much too late.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 09:50 AM

Beyond me, I'm afraid, Al. You reckon the EU is at the root of all our problems. I disagree but let's leave that for now. You also say that "To repair the damage done by the EU (even to just our marine environment) will take decades - and much more morally upright politicians than are presently in evidence." We know the latter is never going to happen and, to be honest, our manufacturing base is never going to be what it was, so just why are you so insistent that we should leave the EU? Surely working within and improving the framework we already have is a better route to recovery that demolishing everything we have done and starting again. You are voting for and trying to sell something that will never benefit you and it is highly unlikely that in will benefit your children or your children's children. You are grasping for the two birds in the bush rather than the one in your hand. And, to be honest, the birds you saw in the 1970s have long since flown away.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 09:52 AM

Is the Big Issue still going...???

..or has it been forced to go internet only...???


Not seen it round here for ages..

The only beggars I see in our town just stick to begging...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 09:57 AM

Amen, DtG, a thousand amens.

Good common sense and logic. Though I'm afraid it's 'casting pearls before swine' (not 'abuse', Al - it's a biblical quotation from Matthew 7:6, The Sermon on The Mount).

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 10:30 AM

Also, I received some training from a CIA guy (I did "medical intelligence", as in diseases prevalent in the area The classified stuff would include info about chemical/biological/nuclear info.)

The number 1 way to gather information was by watching CNN and using a brain to figure stuff out. I seriously quit talking about everything, because I was never sure whether I got it from an unclassified source or a classified document. Some of the classified stuff felt like "I thought everybody knew that" to me.

Better, more qualified minds, have analyzed the Hillary stuff, and recommended nothing be done.

Bringing it up now is a sign that somebody ain't got nuthin' better.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 10:45 AM

”Bringing it up now is a sign that somebody ain't got nuthin' better.”

Bringing it up now is a sign that somebody has a serious wasp up his ass that he needs radical treatment for. Like a Strait-Jacket maybe.

”Anything from Bruce is better deleted without reading, anyway.”

Agreed. There’s a reason he has hair around his mouth.

I’m guessing he’ll be along any minute, playing the victim as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 10:47 AM

Brexit, like the election of Trump was a majority vote under the respective laws of where the respective events occurred. Why does the left refuse to acknowledge this reality. Trump is still the boss despite all the wittering and likely to run a second term.
Trump and Farage make a great team!

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 11:18 AM

Brexit, like the election of Trump was a majority vote

Right you are, squat-for-brains - except for the fact that neither vote represented a majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 12:06 PM

"I'm sorry if you were living in some place twinned with New Delhi "

Oxford if you think that should be twinned with New Delhi. I was there as a student in the early 70s. Ok, it might be a bit selective as students are regarded by some beggars as a soft touch. But there were loads.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 12:20 PM

No , I never said the EU was rge root of our problems. The problems lie with our being governed by rich scoundrels. THe EU facilitates their activities.

It absolves them from all blame. The reason we don't invest in you, the reason our seas are having all the fish hoovered outby foreign fishermen, the reason we can't help...EU regulations mate, sorry mate..

To be honest for those of us with some recollection of the past = to give Brussels its due - it started as it meant to go on.

Initially they wanted to ban our district nurse system - to bring it into line with Europe - were the the buzz words back then.

Look you've got your opinion. You're more than entitled to it - every tory constituence, every fat cat financial guru, every MP virtually agrees with you. Its just the communities devastated you have to covince.
Every day on FB you have a go at bullying and abusing us brexshitters. I don't think your policy is working. And I'm not sure it deserves to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 02:02 PM

I’m older than you. I worked in engineering in the ‘70s - a company which supplied conveyors and coal-prep plant to the NCB - I worked in shipping, stevedoring, and haulage through the ‘80s and ‘90s, I worked in plastics processing from 1999 until 2014.

I remember the way it was, I remember the under-investment and shitty management, the crappy pay-rates, the stinking industrial relations, and the steadfast refusal to modernise and try to compete because “The whole world wants British goods and always will, because they’re the best”. Until they didn’t. Bugger-all to do with the EU, everything to do with the UK.

I remember a ginger, combed-over tosser and a foul, plummy-gobbed hag of a PM going at it hammer and tongs in their personal battle of conflicting political ideologies, neither giving a flying fuck about the destruction they were wreaking on the families and communities of men who were the true Salt of the Earth. Bugger-all to do with the EU, everything to do with the UK.

You’re kicking the sheep when you should be bollocking the weaver. If your peripheral vision wasn’t so blocked by the chips on your shoulders, you might stand a chance of seeing it.


I remember something

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 02:04 PM

”I remember something”

No idea where that came from.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 02:37 PM

The EU has actually done more good for the people of the UK than any UK government since we joined, even Blair's. Far more opportunities through the EU than through UK initiatives. When has the UK even attempted anything as ambitious as ERDF or ESF or the Framework programmes? It hasn't, and the reason is that no UK government ever cares for its people, and the rhetoric in the current tory leadership contest has taken that to new heights.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 02:59 PM

Initially they wanted to ban our district nurse system

Just one of the many Euromyths I'm afraid, Al. If you can find any evidence of anyone interfering in our health service, it will not be the EU. Try either the Tories or the US.

Every day on FB you have a go at bullying and abusing us brexshitters.

Utter and complete bollocks. I don't post on Facebook every day. I don't use the term "brexshit" (although it is apt) and I do not bully anyone. Telling lies about me just confirms that you have no valid argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 03:10 PM

The tory brexit project is certainly working effectively
to set pals against pals...

Traditional tory divide and rule strategies.. errmm.. well... rules...

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 03:20 PM

"Initially they wanted to ban our district nurse system"

Yes, complete and utter bollocks hardly worthy even of the Daily Express.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Iains
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 03:25 PM

Brexit, like the election of Trump was a majority vote

Right you are, squat-for-brains - except for the fact that neither vote represented a majority.

A majority sufficient for it to be acted on, and regarded as a majority in law. Perhaps you have shit for brains or an inability to understand English.

Subject: RE: BS: Understanding the other political side
From: Mossback
Date: 28 Jun 19 - 04:54 PM

I think you meant to say rigged to appear as a legal majority- in one case by Russia & the other by Brexshitters.

---

I think it's time to close this. -Joe Offer-