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Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?

Jay Ricketts 31 Dec 99 - 01:25 PM
Jay 31 Dec 99 - 02:46 PM
31 Dec 99 - 02:54 PM
31 Dec 99 - 02:57 PM
Jay again 31 Dec 99 - 03:42 PM
31 Dec 99 - 04:05 PM
31 Dec 99 - 04:27 PM
Susan of DT 31 Dec 99 - 04:53 PM
Bruce O. 31 Dec 99 - 06:23 PM
Murray on Saltspring 31 Dec 99 - 09:44 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 01 Jan 00 - 02:43 PM
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Subject: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From: Jay Ricketts
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 01:25 PM

A quick turnaround (jig? do-si-do?) appreciated!!!

looking for the tune age, not the text.

O WALY WALY
AULD LANG SYNE (I heard that the tune predated the poem?)
WILD MOUNTAIN THYME (aka The Braes o' Balquhidder?)
DANISH AMEN (10-9-8-7-6-9-8-7-8)

also, if you know them (but less important to my immediate mission):

BUNESSAN
BONNIE GEORGE CAMPBELL

Thanks, Happy New Year!

Jay


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From: Jay
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 02:46 PM

A very good hymnal which gives elaborate and meticulous data about its tunes, lyrics, harmonizers, &c., &c. gives only "trad. English melody" for O WALY WALY , for which it gives in parentheses the tune name GIFT OF LOVE Not much help, eh? But I love to date tunes, too.

Happy Y2K, eh?

Dennis in Manitoba


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From:
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 02:54 PM

Waly Waly, 1825, Auld Lang Syne: Which song and which tune? Old song and old and new tunes are in Scarce Songs 2 at www.erols.com/olsonw. (That called the original in DT isn't the original; It's Allan Ramsay's) Wild Mountain Thyme: Which song and which tune? What is Bunessan? Child #210 first appeared with tune in Smith's Scottish Minstrel in the 1820's (1st tune in Bronson's 'Traditional Tunes...'


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From:
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 02:57 PM

Sorry that should have been 1725 for "Waly Waly" (Orpheus Caledonius).


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From: Jay again
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 03:42 PM

sorry about the formatting last time, guess I have to doublespace to get line breaks: Here's what I get so far, from y'all and from rec.music.celtic:

O WALY WALY: 1725

WILD MOUNTAIN THYME: 1796 (from 24 Scots Songs, probably predates collection)

AULD LANG SYNE: 1700s somewhere

BUNESSAN (tune for Morning Has Broken): Got as far back as early 1800s - songs "Child in the Manger" and "Leanabh an Aigh".

DANISH AMEN: no info yet

BONNIE GEORGE CAMPBELL: no info yet

Didn't understand the "Child #210" entry above -dense of me, sorry.

Thanks everyone, have a great holiday.


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From:
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 04:05 PM

Just search the DT for #210


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From:
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 04:27 PM

The old "Auld Lang Syne" tune was published in 1700. For the newer one there is some disagrement about what are and aren't variants of the same tune, at any rate it seems to be of the 1770's or 80's. For these see Auld Lang Syne 1 and 2 in the Scots Tune Index at www.erols.com/olsonw


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 04:53 PM

Jay - I put in the breaks for you - it is br within angle brackets <>, like [br] using the angles


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 06:23 PM

To file S2.HTM on my website I've added a few more "Auld Lang Syne" variants, AULDLNG1 & 2 are the old tune and 3-9 are variants of the newer tune (Miller's Daugthter, Comin thro' the rye, Shield's overture to Rossina, Sir Alex. Don's Strathspey.)


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 31 Dec 99 - 09:44 PM

The trouble is that a title can refer to two (or more) tunes. -- One Scottish, one English, for instance; which MAY be related, but probably of different dates. Anyhow, the "English" trad tune for "Waly Waly" might be the one collected by Sharp, I think, back around 1904 or so, ageless because truly traditional. There's a whole complex of songs gathered round this. Sharp called the song he got "Waly Waly", seeing a resemblance to the Scottish text in Orpheus Caledonius (1725). But his tune is not the same. "Bonny George Campbell" is a similar case--no way to date the tune unless one knows how it goes, and I've heard at least two. "Bunessan" was dealt with on this Forum not that long since.Ditto for "Wild Mountain Thyme"--as far as I can see the modern tune as sung by the McPeakes is a good variation on the old one for "Braes o' Balquhidder".


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Subject: RE: Help: ages of these trad British Isles tunes?
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 01 Jan 00 - 02:43 PM

The recent forum on Bunessan is here.

T.


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