Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version

Subject: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 07:26 AM

Wonder if anybody can advise
I heard an Irish language version of 'The Unquiet Grave' (A Ógánaigh an Chraobhaigh) earlier this year sung by Máire Ní Cheileachair - I now have her CD which includes it, but with no printed text or translation - the source is given as 'Journal of the Folk Song Society Vols-23-25 - I'm buggered if I can find it in mine, which is difficult to search

Does anybody know where I can obtain a text and translation for my Irish Child ballads project ?
I could ask Máire or the friend who found the ballad for her, but I would rather not bother then if it is freely available elsewhere

Along with 'The Cherry Tree Carol' it's increased the number of Child Ballads in Irish from the previously thought four to six (with another possible in the pipeline)
Thanks in anticipation
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 07:47 AM

There seem to be many English translations under the title 'How Cold the Wind Doth Blow', but one would need to speak/read both Irish and English to ensure the translation is correct or apt, and I'd be no help with that.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 08:26 AM

https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/sm/ft/orig/musicsales-NOV170665_2.jpg?1359379979   

That's one example, but as to its accuracy . . .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 08:51 AM

Thanks S - I'm ok with English versions - I sing one myself
I want to check wheter the one I mentioned is actually an Irish version of the ballad or just based on it
Thanks for your efforts
Jim

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 08:54 AM

You're welcome. I misunderstood. If I find anything worthwhile I'll get back to this thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 09:31 AM

This may be worth a look if you haven't seen it, JC.

https://songsinirish.com/a-oganaigh-an-chuil-chraobhaigh-lyrics/

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 10:41 AM

The link Starship posted above goes to ‘A ógánaigh an chúil chraobhaigh'
which seems to use the same air as 'Táim Sínte Ar Do Thuama' here sung by Diarmuid Ó Súilleabháin. Itself a version of 'I am stretched on your grave' FWIW, Jackie Daly recorded a version of the air, which could be taken as a version of The Star of the Co Down.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 11:05 AM

Thanks Peter - that makes sense
I was aware of that song but have never heard it and never made the connection
Máire got her song from Dairmuid's sister Eilish - I'll check later to see if it's the same song
I think I'll have to contact Eilish or Máire for a translation - a second examination of the Journals proved fruitless
Best
Jim

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 11:05 AM

Hi Jim
This all sounds very familiar. Like you I can't find anything in volumes 23 to 25. But if you look at volume 44 (1941, 4. part 2, p49) Ruth Harvey's article bottom of p55 she refers to 'the Irish folk-song which bears a great resemblance to TUG (Folk-Song Journal, Vol VI, p71)' which to me seems to be wrong as there's something else at that page. m'the dead girl warns the man against another marriage which she says "assuredly would be your destruction". If this is what you are referring to it would not be directly related to TUG, only contain similar material.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 11:30 AM

Jim
They don't help much but there are indexes in vol 25, both in Irish and translations.

This is a long shot but in Vol 23 at page 171 (not 71 as Harvey says) there is a song with vague resemblance to TUG in that it seems to be a living lover conversing with a dead lover. However I can't find any words like the ones you post anywhere in it. Its Irish title is Cailin A Chuil Chravuig. The last word looks similar to yours and I know there are different versions of written Irish.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 12:52 PM

Thanks Steve
I've got the Journals referenced in the note (have a full set anyway) and after three goes I have been unable to find the song
It may well be that Máire us using another title or a first line
I will contact her and Eilish when I get their addresses - they both offered to assist at the time
The problem, of course is that the revenant them of the song is a popular one both in English and Irish that searching out a specific song is somewhat needle/haystackish
Will push on
Jim

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 02:57 PM

Hmmm.....

I take it that's the Journal of the IRISH Folk Song Society she references? At first glance, the volume numbers cited don't throw up anything obvious, but - Vol. 26 has "A Ógánaigh Uasail" with a dead lover theme.

I may have Máire's CD somewhere and will check it out.

Regards

p.s. I'm sure she's be delighted to help, incidentally.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 19 - 03:04 PM

" take it that's the Journal of the IRISH Folk Song Society she references?"
It isn't Martin - the location given on Máire's CD (which I have) places it right in the middle of a few dozen Irish language songs in the English Journals
If you happen to have her e-mail address or Eilish's, I'd be very grateful for them - both agreed to assist during the Clancy Week
I've e-mailed Roisín White who, I'm sure will have them, but I think they might be in Spain
As usual thanks Martin - hope you enjoy Kinvarra tonight, if you go
Jim

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Sep 19 - 10:19 AM

Jim,

Jackie recorded the air as 'a ógánaigh an chúil chraoibhin'. I have in the past heard Eilish O Suilleabhain sing the song and she was in fact recorded by ITMA, singing it : A ógánaigh an chúil chraobhaigh, song / Eilís Ní Shúilleabháin, singing in Irish

Same song as I posted above, sung by her brother.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Unquiet Grave - Irish Language Version
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 19 - 11:05 AM

Thanks again Peter - and all
I've finally found the text referred to in the notes, as I suspected, under a different title, Caílin a Chual Chravuig' (The Girl of the Branching Tresses)
It is not, as claimed, a version of 'The Unquiet Grave' (in my opinion), but sharing the revenant motif
A similar claim is made of a mermaid song which is often linked to 'The Two Sisters'
It is an interesting example of how many of our songs and (particularly) ballads don't really stick to the rules when it comes to national boundaries.
Thanks for all your help
Jim