Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings

robomatic 07 Sep 19 - 02:28 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Sep 19 - 02:31 PM
Iains 07 Sep 19 - 02:36 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Sep 19 - 02:53 PM
Big Al Whittle 07 Sep 19 - 03:17 PM
Backwoodsman 07 Sep 19 - 03:37 PM
DMcG 07 Sep 19 - 04:34 PM
robomatic 07 Sep 19 - 04:44 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Sep 19 - 07:14 PM
DMcG 08 Sep 19 - 02:01 AM
DMcG 08 Sep 19 - 02:05 AM
The Sandman 08 Sep 19 - 02:53 AM
The Sandman 08 Sep 19 - 02:56 AM
The Sandman 08 Sep 19 - 03:02 AM
The Sandman 08 Sep 19 - 04:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Sep 19 - 04:17 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 19 - 04:17 AM
The Sandman 08 Sep 19 - 04:30 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 19 - 04:39 AM
DMcG 08 Sep 19 - 04:40 AM
The Sandman 08 Sep 19 - 04:42 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Sep 19 - 05:32 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Sep 19 - 08:40 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Sep 19 - 11:33 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 Sep 19 - 06:51 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 19 - 08:34 PM
Big Al Whittle 08 Sep 19 - 08:49 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 19 - 09:06 PM
Big Al Whittle 08 Sep 19 - 10:20 PM
The Sandman 09 Sep 19 - 01:13 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 03:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 19 - 03:28 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Sep 19 - 04:04 AM
Big Al Whittle 09 Sep 19 - 05:22 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 19 - 05:32 AM
Iains 09 Sep 19 - 05:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 19 - 07:15 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 07:22 AM
Big Al Whittle 09 Sep 19 - 08:21 AM
Raggytash 09 Sep 19 - 08:31 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 19 - 08:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 19 - 08:47 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 09:17 AM
Iains 09 Sep 19 - 09:21 AM
Big Al Whittle 09 Sep 19 - 09:30 AM
Rain Dog 09 Sep 19 - 09:41 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 19 - 10:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 19 - 10:05 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 10:51 AM
Rain Dog 09 Sep 19 - 11:13 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 19 - 11:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 19 - 11:41 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 19 - 12:02 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 12:17 PM
Rain Dog 09 Sep 19 - 12:29 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 01:16 PM
Big Al Whittle 09 Sep 19 - 01:28 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 19 - 01:36 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 19 - 01:47 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Sep 19 - 02:02 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 19 - 02:47 PM
Raggytash 09 Sep 19 - 02:55 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Sep 19 - 03:13 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Sep 19 - 03:25 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Sep 19 - 06:29 PM
The Sandman 10 Sep 19 - 02:00 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 03:53 AM
Iains 10 Sep 19 - 04:01 AM
peteaberdeen 10 Sep 19 - 10:01 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 11:17 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 11:49 AM
Iains 10 Sep 19 - 12:01 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 12:41 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Sep 19 - 12:51 PM
peteaberdeen 10 Sep 19 - 12:54 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 01:11 PM
Big Al Whittle 10 Sep 19 - 01:14 PM
Iains 10 Sep 19 - 01:41 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Sep 19 - 02:37 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Sep 19 - 03:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 10 Sep 19 - 03:41 PM
Iains 10 Sep 19 - 04:34 PM
The Sandman 10 Sep 19 - 04:41 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 10 Sep 19 - 05:58 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Sep 19 - 07:10 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Sep 19 - 07:40 PM
The Sandman 10 Sep 19 - 10:53 PM
Iains 11 Sep 19 - 03:51 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Sep 19 - 05:56 AM
Iains 12 Sep 19 - 04:39 AM
The Sandman 12 Sep 19 - 04:49 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Sep 19 - 04:55 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 05:08 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Sep 19 - 05:13 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Sep 19 - 05:13 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 06:00 AM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Sep 19 - 06:07 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 07:08 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Sep 19 - 07:10 AM
Big Al Whittle 12 Sep 19 - 07:24 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Sep 19 - 07:27 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Sep 19 - 07:44 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 08:13 AM
Iains 12 Sep 19 - 09:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Sep 19 - 10:11 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 10:37 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Sep 19 - 10:50 AM
Raggytash 12 Sep 19 - 11:12 AM
Iains 12 Sep 19 - 12:05 PM
The Sandman 12 Sep 19 - 12:09 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Sep 19 - 12:13 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 12:21 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Sep 19 - 12:56 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Sep 19 - 02:37 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Sep 19 - 06:42 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Sep 19 - 09:20 AM
Iains 13 Sep 19 - 09:45 AM
Raggytash 13 Sep 19 - 01:46 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Sep 19 - 01:56 PM
Dave the Gnome 13 Sep 19 - 02:10 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Sep 19 - 02:29 PM
Iains 13 Sep 19 - 02:50 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Sep 19 - 03:13 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Sep 19 - 06:02 PM
peteaberdeen 14 Sep 19 - 02:28 AM
Iains 14 Sep 19 - 03:22 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Sep 19 - 03:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Sep 19 - 03:38 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 04:00 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Sep 19 - 04:10 AM
peteaberdeen 14 Sep 19 - 04:20 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 04:21 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Sep 19 - 04:41 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Sep 19 - 04:53 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 05:10 AM
Iains 14 Sep 19 - 05:48 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Sep 19 - 06:30 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 06:33 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 06:55 AM
Iains 14 Sep 19 - 10:13 AM
Raggytash 14 Sep 19 - 10:57 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Sep 19 - 11:55 AM
Iains 14 Sep 19 - 01:33 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Sep 19 - 02:20 PM
Jim Carroll 14 Sep 19 - 02:55 PM
Iains 15 Sep 19 - 08:08 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Sep 19 - 08:20 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Sep 19 - 01:53 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Sep 19 - 02:04 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Sep 19 - 05:36 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Sep 19 - 08:45 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Sep 19 - 01:01 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Sep 19 - 01:02 PM
Iains 16 Sep 19 - 01:14 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Sep 19 - 01:16 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Sep 19 - 08:17 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Sep 19 - 08:19 PM
Jim Carroll 17 Sep 19 - 03:03 AM
peteaberdeen 17 Sep 19 - 03:34 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Sep 19 - 04:21 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Sep 19 - 04:38 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Sep 19 - 05:24 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Sep 19 - 05:38 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Sep 19 - 05:49 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Sep 19 - 08:31 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Sep 19 - 08:39 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Sep 19 - 08:43 AM
Iains 18 Sep 19 - 02:00 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 03:28 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 03:31 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Sep 19 - 05:07 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 05:43 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 06:11 AM
DMcG 18 Sep 19 - 06:44 AM
Iains 18 Sep 19 - 07:16 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 08:16 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 08:18 AM
Iains 18 Sep 19 - 09:00 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 09:20 AM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 09:59 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Sep 19 - 10:12 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Sep 19 - 10:47 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Sep 19 - 11:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Sep 19 - 11:02 AM
DMcG 18 Sep 19 - 11:04 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Sep 19 - 11:19 AM
DMcG 18 Sep 19 - 12:00 PM
DMcG 18 Sep 19 - 12:01 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 12:40 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 01:23 PM
Jim Carroll 18 Sep 19 - 06:08 PM
DMcG 18 Sep 19 - 06:29 PM
Iains 19 Sep 19 - 03:31 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 03:37 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 03:50 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 03:52 AM
DMcG 19 Sep 19 - 04:05 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 04:26 AM
Iains 19 Sep 19 - 04:59 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 05:01 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 05:29 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 05:59 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 08:22 AM
Jim Carroll 19 Sep 19 - 01:14 PM
Iains 19 Sep 19 - 01:49 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Sep 19 - 05:34 AM
DMcG 20 Sep 19 - 06:04 AM
DMcG 20 Sep 19 - 06:08 AM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: BS: BXIT 'TAKE BACK CONTROL' D Cummings
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:28 PM

The New York Times has an opinion piece centered on Dominic Cummings, who is probably unknown to the bulk of Americans even if they are concerned with the current pandemonium regarding Brexit in the U.K.

He is apparently a man of the single idea.

The author of the New York Times article mentions:

"Mr. Cummings, a spindly, socially diffident, unsmiling figure, spoke next. He was emphatic, evocative. He talked about pride, independence, nationhood, sovereignty, dignity, making our own laws and decisions.

I detested Brexit and all it stood for, but I was captivated. Mr. Cummings was making it sound like the noble path. I came home anxious and uneasy. Remainers were way ahead in the polls, but would they come up with something effective to combat the deep emotions that Mr. Cummings’s campaign was tapping into?

They never did. Mr. Cummings went on to drive Brexit, pushing it to a narrow victory against huge internal opposition, by focusing aggressively on what worked. He outwitted Britain’s establishment by combining a brilliantly simple slogan — “Take back control” — with shameless lies about the European Union, the National Health Service and the danger that Turks could soon emigrate to Britain en masse, all backed up by a huge and hidden microtargeted social media campaign. Every element was designed to have a powerful, visceral appeal.

Mr. Cummings proved that stories and lies, allied to strategic cunning, conviction, secrecy, ruthlessness and upending convention, could be much more appealing than reason and fact.


I think Cummings is portrayed by Benedict Cumberbatch in last year's movie: "Brexit - The Uncivil War."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BXIT 'TAKE BACK CONTROL' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:31 PM

Anarchist !!!
Gives a bad name to Syndicalism
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BXIT 'TAKE BACK CONTROL' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:36 PM

He probably learnt his trade by studying the antics of Alastair Campbell, the Downing Street Director of Communications and spokesman for the Labour Party under bliar blair. The man who insisted Dr Kelly be named and shamed, and who sexed up dodgy dossiers of WMD to take us to war in Iraq. Dominic Cummings has a long and winding road to follow in order to equal Campbell in infamy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BXIT 'TAKE BACK CONTROL' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 02:53 PM

”Cummings went on to drive Brexit, pushing it to a narrow victory against huge internal opposition, by focusing aggressively on what worked. He outwitted Britain’s establishment by combining a brilliantly simple slogan — “Take back control” — with shameless lies about the European Union, the National Health Service and the danger that Turks could soon emigrate to Britain en masse, all backed up by a huge and hidden microtargeted social media campaign. Every element was designed to have a powerful, visceral appeal.

Mr. Cummings proved that stories and lies, allied to strategic cunning, conviction, secrecy, ruthlessness and upending convention, could be much more appealing than reason and fact.”


And the indoctrinated half-wits, on this forum and elsewhere, still turn themselves inside-out in their efforts to defend the indefensible. You really could not make it up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BXIT 'TAKE BACK CONTROL' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 03:17 PM

oh well if you say we're halfwits BWM, we'll definitely take your word for it.

I regularly write to my MP and he understands my concerns, even if doesn't agree with me. You willfully misunderstand and then sling insults around. If anything loses another referendum for the Remainers- which is looking quite likely this week - it will be their rudeness.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BXIT 'TAKE BACK CONTROL' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 03:37 PM

There are as many insults hurled around by Leavers as there are by Remainers Al - the most abusive and insulting poster on this forum is one of your lot, a Leaver.

I’ve never made death-threats against Leavers the way they have against me and many other Remainers, Al. I’ve mentioned it before - several times - and you haven’t responded even once.

And you really do need to grow a skin, and stop taking things said as generalities personally - if I’d wanted to insult you, I would have directed my comment at you personally, but I didn’t and I didn’t. But if you wish to identify yourself as one of the ‘indoctrinated half-wits’, and choose to be ‘offended’, there’s nothing I can do to stop you.

So - any comment on the piece I quoted in italics, or are you only interested in picking a fight with me...yet again?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 04:34 PM

I think Al is partially right: rudeness, from whoever to whoever, hardens opinion, it does not change it. But I disagree that it is most likely reason: I think few remainers have genuinely tried to understand the reasons people voted leave. Too often it is only asked to get a reason to insult (racist! Stupid!) rather than to find out what motivates people who do not fall into such simple categories. There is no point repeating arguments that were not convincing first time around. Remainers need to show remaining is a better answer to those concerns than leaving. Unless it does that, it will fail.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 04:44 PM

The photo of Cummings in the NYT piece makes him look, to me, scary crazy even more bughouse than Wayne LaPieere (of the American NRA).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 19 - 07:14 PM

Whilst I appreciate your efforts to understand leavers, DMcG (and, dammit, I've tried...), I do things like listen to Question Time and Any Answers (did you listen to today's, fer chrissake...), and attend to the cheap telly vox pops that the Beeb indulges in, and I'm afraid that there's no other conclusion to be reached than that the huge majority of leave voters are uninformed, quite likely racist and, at best, have an extremely superficial understanding of our politics. They are thereby suckered in by the likes of the Sun, Mail and Express and, by dint of their ignorance, are easy meat for right-wing populism. To me, that's how it is, and it goes a bloody long way towards explaining why the Tories, after everything, are still ahead in the polls...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:01 AM

Yes, Steve, but we don't have to deal with the majority of Leavers. I have no idea how accurate it was, but in the dramatisation of Cummings with Benedict Cumberbatch the point was made that there were committed Remainers, and there was no point wasting the Leave team wasting effort there. Nor was there much point preaching to the already committed Leavers. All the focus needed to be on the undecided. And remember in the last referendum it only needed around 2% of the people who voted to swing the result, and of course far less than that of the whole population. So no matter how many there are on either side who will not change their view, they are not the critical ones.

Of course, time marches on, and it is extremely hard to predict what all the effects of changes in demographics, the sorry saga of the past few years, and what might happen during a campaign but I don't think either side can assume it will be anything other than a struggle with an uncertain outcome. So I see no point in alienating anyone unnecessarily.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:05 AM

Or to put it another way, I am not saying understand the opposition to be nice. I am saying understand them as a means to win.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:53 AM

if anyone has read Diary of a Nobody Cummings is like his name sake, an insiinficant twerp who has risen above his station, he does not know if he is coming or going[ cummings or gowings=.
His contributions to the bigger picture of history will be as significant as being savaged by a dead sheep. he appears tro have a serious drink problem.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 02:56 AM

itis difficult to understand someone who his actions are fuelled by too much alcohol, most of the time he seems to be unfit to be able to drive a car himself let alone drive an economy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 03:02 AM

Cummings is a political vandal a negative force whose destruction seems to be fueeled by bottles of booze


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:11 AM

It has to be understood that there were some leavers who did not vote for leave with a no deal, Denis Skinner has always been opposed to europe. i do not know how he voted, but i am sure he is opposed to leaving without a deal


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:17 AM

I have also tried to understand the leave logic, DMcG, and have asked extensively on here and elsewhere why they voted as they did. A simple summary of the responses is

1. Control immigration
2. Not be bound to EU laws
3. Not be controlled by unelected beurocrats
4. Not pay into Europe
5. The EU is corrupt and inefficient

When I point out that 1, we do control immigration, 2, we help to create and approve those laws and 3, we elect the EU parliament, I am met with, at best, silence or, at worse, abuse. Point 4 could be valid. We do pay more in than we take out financially but I believe the non monetary benefits outweigh that. Point 5 may be true but we stand no chance of changing that if we leave and will still have to deal with them. I have not, to date, had any response to my last 2 points.

Some of my closest friends are leavers. I know they are not stupid. I do believe however that they have been conned by masters at the game. No shame in that. Those masters are still at it. They have no response to the predictions of dire consequences so it is all labelled project fear. They cannot address the genuine fears of remainers so they label them traitors and rebels. So, full circle, back to "Mr. Cummings proved that stories and lies, allied to strategic cunning, conviction, secrecy, ruthlessness and upending convention, could be much more appealing than reason and fact." Sad but true.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:17 AM

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say, DMcG. Focusing on the undecided seems to be something that the devious and the possessors of ulterior motives are much better at than the honest and straightforward. The devil has all the best tunes, the leaver-liars had all the best slogans and we never seem to see that coming.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:30 AM

Dave, good points ,there is much to be critical of about the EU. FIRST originally we voted to join something different,.. the common market. HOWEVER points 1,3,5,also apply to the uk.
I am opposed to leaving the uk without a deal. from a purely personal point of view, I prefer to remain in europe.if however the uk were to leave and be in a similar position to Norway, that would not be as harmful in an economic sense[ for bothe the uk and ireland] as leaving without a deal.
point 2 .well there are good and bad european laws, but right now I TRUST the Eu to be more socially democratic than a conservastive controlled independent uk. in view of that I prefer europe, and if i get a chance to vote on a second referendum would vote remain


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:39 AM

From The Observer today.

The message Johnson wanted to convey was that the MPs’ attempts to block no deal were taking the heat off Brussels. During an hour of discussions, [Greg] Clark asked for some specific details on particular issues and Johnson said someone from his office would get back to him. Later that day, Clark received a phone call from Johnson’s closest aide, Dominic Cummings, which failed to provide answers. Instead Clark found himself on the end of a foul-mouthed tirade.

According to sources aware of the exchange, Cummings bawled at him, saying: “When are you MPs going to realise that we are leaving on 31 October?” before adding: “We are going to fucking purge you.”


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:40 AM

It seems very likely that the theme of the leave side in a further referendum will either be "Tell them again" or "People versus Parliament". Neither line says anything whosoever about whether being the EU is beneficial, or even anything about the EU at all. So it would be very easy for remain to campaign on the wrong ground. That is the kind of thing I mean when I say we need to addressing the things that people are being energised about.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 04:42 AM

to con tinue, if there was a genuine chance of a socialist independent uk , that would be preferable ,but i do not think the establishment will allow that to ever happen, so i find remaining in Europe a slightly better option.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 05:32 AM

The Times this morning suggests that Cummings is more interested in destroying the Labour Party than he is about Brexit Corbin has him and his ilk scared shitless enough to destroy Britain rather than let Labour win
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 08:40 AM

Amber Rudd has said that the Government is no longer attempting to get a deal on Brexit - "90+% of its efforts are now concentrating on crashing out of Europe without a deal"
A
She describes the sacking of 21 MPs as "an assault on decency and democracy" - she gives this as a reason for her resignation

A matter of business:
Can I suggest that we now use this thread for the Brexit discussion rather than wait for the other one to reach the basement each time we want to post
It seems to cover all the angles
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 11:33 AM

Get Ready for No-Deal Brexit...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 06:51 PM

1. Control immigration
2. Not be bound to EU laws
3. Not be controlled by unelected beurocrats
4. Not pay into Europe
5. The EU is corrupt and inefficient

When I point out that 1, we do control immigration, 2, we help to create and approve those laws and 3, we elect the EU parliament, I am met with, at best, silence or, at worse, abuse. Point 4 could be valid. We do pay more in than we take out financially but I believe the non monetary benefits outweigh that. Point 5 may be true but we stand no chance of changing that if we leave and will still have to deal with them. I have not, to date, had any response to my last 2 points.

Some of my closest friends are leavers. I know they are not stupid. I do believe however that they have been conned by masters at the game. No shame in that. Those masters are still at it. They have no response to the predictions of dire consequences so it is all labelled project fear. They cannot address the genuine fears of remainers so they label them traitors and rebels. So, full circle, back to "Mr. Cummings proved that stories and lies, allied to strategic cunning, conviction, secrecy, ruthlessness and upending convention, could be much more appealing than reason and fact." Sad but true.


Just once more. (point 1) We do not have control of immigration (from EU) freedom of movements prevents this.

(point 2) Self-explanatory


(Point 3) The bureaucrats in the EU who are unelected, are the only ones permitted to put forward new legislation. It doesn't really matter if we get the option to put a minority vote against them. We cannot put forward new legislation, and any suggested legislation which does not fit the mindset of the EU just doesn't get put forward.


(point 4) again, self-explanatory. We are one of the few countries making a positive financial contribution to the EU.


(point 5) The EU has failed to get its budget 'signed off' by auditors in many years. A business with that record would not be permitted to trade.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 08:34 PM

Bunch of lies, Nigel, and you know it.

First, immigration. We have total control, if we want it, over non-EU immigration. Yet non-EU immigration routinely exceeds EU immigration. Care to explain?

Next, EU laws. We are bound only by laws concerning food standards, animal welfare standards and the rest that are not only rather good laws (chlorine chicken, anyone?) but which we have wholeheartedly agreed with. We have wholeheartedly agreed with over 95% of EU laws and regulations over the last 30 years, abstained on about two percent and been outvoted on the rest, most of that "rest" being pretty trivial. In general, most EU regulations are unanimously agreed to without the need to go to a vote. That is, agreed to by 28 countries, Nigel. In the case of important issues that we may wish to disagree with, we, as a large EU nation, have the veto. For example, there can never be an EU army whilst we are members because we have vetoed it. Finally on this point, the EU has no control over our domestic laws, none whatsoever. They can't control our policies on taxation, housing, health service, education, welfare, policing and the rest.

Next, "unelected bureaucrats." Yes, the Commission (in which we are intimately involved) suggests policy. But that can't be executed without the express consent of the European Parliament, which is an ELECTED body (did you vote, Nige?). As you say, the bureaucrats can "put forward" legislation. But that's all they can do. You appear to think that we're stupid enough to think that "put forward" means the same thing as "agree to" or "execute." Tough shit, Nigel. You may be hoping that the electorate in general are stupid enough to swallow that lie, but some of us here on Mudcat can see right through you, old bean.

Next, the money. Well, we were lied to about the amount we pay in, as you know, but yes, we do make a net contribution as one of the richest economies in the world. But, Nigel, our overall EU financial involvement is about one percent of our GDP. For that, we get to help poorer EU countries in order to enable them to continue to run themselves according to high standards in terms of democracy, human rights and the rule of law, the sort of thing that has kept the peace across Europe for the last seventy-five years, and, in return, we get assistance for the poorer regions in the UK and massive subsidies for our farmers. The net deficit is tiny in comparison with our overall GDP and we get lots in return in terms of standards and security. A small price to pay, some would say. And a bloody small price compared with what we'll be paying if we crash out. Think tariffs, Nige...

Next, budget not signed off. This is blatantly untrue. Last time I comprehensively dealt with that was with Teribus donkeys' years ago. I'm not going to keep countering blatant lies, Nigel. I'll be charitable to you on this occasion and assume that you haven't actually looked it up, rather that you've swallowed a bit of propaganda from somewhere or other.

Keep trying, Nigel, but do try not to keep casting yourself as a brexiteer desperado. If you think we're better out, give us your reasons, but stop wailing about what we all know is by far the best setup for the UK, imperfect though it is, which is to stay in. Your challenge is to give us the good news about life outside the EU. We're waiting...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 08:49 PM

The main reasons I vote leave is that I do not believe our position is sustainable within the EEC.

Our environment and economy are controlled by people who are are in an unanswerable position of power. they are observably doing us down at every juncture.

BWM always blames the fact that about 75% of cars on our roads before we went in were of British manufacture and now they're not - on being the result of our lousy government. But what complexion of government could have made it work. We've had everything from Wilson, who had bona fide communists (with the Spycatcher gang waging war against them) right up to Thatcher who was just a bit right of Mussolini.

I think you have to accept that the motives of Johnson etc have little of the public interest at heart. But fuck it - we need out - while theres still a fish in the waters round our coast, while theres still the remnants of an industrial workforce in the north.

You point out that there is some conspiracy going on with Trump. But there are some bloody dodgy characters in your camp. Major the who masterminded the ERM business. Blair - nuff said. then there are these sinister millionaires who seem to be actively engaged whilst keeping a low profile. Web millionaires, who probably make more money in a morning than I've done in a lifetime.

I don't know why you have no doubts about your position. certainly I have doubts about mine. but I see no convincing answers - I just get told I'm a half wit, a racist, unintelligent....which may be true, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 09:06 PM

"Our environment and economy are controlled by people who are are in an unanswerable position of power. "

Just not true, Al. I don't know where you're getting that from. With respect, you appear to be dealing with received wisdom. Read my last post and feel free to counter, with facts, what I said. The EU is no less democratically accountable than is our own government. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the EU consists of 28 fiercely nationalistic countries. That's very healthy. The EU operates on the basis of mutual consent. And if we don't agree on massively important issues, we have the veto. These are the facts of the matter, Al.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Sep 19 - 10:20 PM

No Steve, the information is I'm dealing with is not received other than receiving the self evident facts before my eyes.

the countries in the EU have their own citizens to look after which they do with a zeal, alien to the patricians of Westminster.

What is quite evident when talking to my MP is that central government feels it has a blank cheque once elected. they're like Henry VIII , having signed a death warrant. they do what the fuck they like.   think of how Thatcher, once she had the constituencies in her pocket that would retain her power, the rest of the country could go hang and be pillaged at will.

Ask yourself - why in God's name a gang of twats over in Europe would feel themselves more accountable or less. the statospheric salaries we pay often to people unable to run a whelk stall in English politics really tells its own story.

Anyway I see no reason for bitterness, abuse, and insult. In a way, we are all victims of the situation that we find ourselves in. If there is a way through this chaos, it will be found by more divergent thinkers than the loudmouth gang currently in the House of Commons. Perhaps the first important step would be making a rule that when the speaker is speaking -everyone else shuts up and listens.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:13 AM

ACCORDING TO THE GUARDIAN.British shellfish sales to the EU (mostly France and Spain) are worth £430m a year – more than a quarter of all UK fish exports by value. They are vital to small-scale fishermen in Scotland and the West Country. They will be devastated overnight if the UK loses paper-free access to the EU single market.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 03:03 AM

NIgel's claims seem to have dropped the actual benifits on fisheries and farming they once did - they are now almost entirely based on unproven and largely unmeritd negative claims

"EU" laws are rules agreed mutually by by members of any organisation - they are not laws and they are changeable by those members
They are not made by faceless beurocrats, they are devised and agreed on by the members for the benefit of their own states
Britan has its own version of Rules and regulations for exactly the same reason
"nelected bureaucrats" - everything we doo is governed by rules made by "unelected bureaucrats" - safety, trade, working conditions.....
This is amorphously meaningless
You pay of the upkeep of everything you join - we are at present being asked to pay for Trump's Wall - if we refuse he will refuse to trade with us
Unsubstantiated corruption and efficianecy is a nonsensical suggestuion
C and I exists everywhere in and out of Europe - from our parliament to the overuse of the plastics which is helping destroy our planet
Within an organisation lke Europe it is possible to expose and control these thisngs - outside it is not
These are absolutely pathetic excuses and justifications grabbed from the ait=r, not reasoned out arguments

That immigration should be at the top of your list says everything that needs to be said about Brexit
Immigration in no way contributes to the problems of the UK and it has bnever nbeen claimed other than by fundamentalists of the like of the NF, the BNP and Ukip, that it has
There are no faxcts and figures behind this disgusting claim, on the contrary, the establishment itself has produced arguments of the beneficial aspects of emigration
One of the facts that has emerged during Brexit is that our science and medicine =industries will be be severely hit if scientists from abroad are not allowed to work freely in Britain
Britain is one of the leading nations to create the conditions which have caused the need of foreigners to leave home
We have financed, armed, and politically supported despots in countries like Saudi Arabia, Syria, and other parts of the Middle East and Africa
We are part of the demand for oil that is a major contributor to the conflicts that are creating mass immigration and refugeeism
We fill our shops with goods produced under slave-like conditions - we are a part of a new, international slave-trade that has brought about an economic migration of massive proportions
It is inhuman and totally immoral to suggest we should not be part of something we are feeding and have come to rely on
But thank you for confirming that this is totally based on keeping people out
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 03:28 AM

Our environment and economy are controlled by people who are are in an unanswerable position of power. they are observably doing us down at every juncture.

The EU parliament is elected, just like the UK one is. Our own representatives have more say in what goes on in Europe than most of the other countries. The are not only answerable but totally replaceable. You have been sold a lie, Al.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 04:04 AM

”BWM always blames the fact that about 75% of cars on our roads before we went in were of British manufacture and now they're not - on being the result of our lousy government.”

That’s a lie, Al, as you very well know. Disagree with me by all means, but don’t demean yourself by stooping to barefaced lies.

What I’ve actually said - on several occasions - is that the decline of British industry was due to a complex set of circumstances, amongst which were...

1) Poor industrial relations
2) Under-investment by businesses
3) Short-sighted, complacent managements who believed that the customers would always ‘buy British’, no matter the quality (or lack of it) of the product
4) During the Thatcher years, a government policy which was designed to destroy TU power.

”But what complexion of government could have made it work. We've had everything from Wilson, who had bona fide communists (with the Spycatcher gang waging war against them) right up to Thatcher who was just a bit right of Mussolini.”

And if that’s the case, exactly how was it the fault of the ECM/EEC/EC/EU?

You’re a victim of your own prejudices, reinforced by the lies of Dom & Dumber, and the cabal of tax-dodging multi-millionaires driving and controlling the entire Brexit campaign.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:22 AM

Its their fault because they have entered into an agreement with a party - that they have no intention of respecting - how ever they were approached and by whom.

its our fault - because a generation of plonkers (who could see very plainly that Edward Heath was Mr English twit personified) still went and voted for him.

And Jim it has fuck all to with keeping people out. It has much to with respecting the wishes of the coastal communities and northern communities of industrial workers, whose efforts supplied much of the wealth of this country and virtually all the political support for the party who made the place liveable in.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:32 AM

One more time then:

"Our environment and economy are controlled by people who are are in an unanswerable position of power."

EU policy and regulations are agreed either by consensus among 28 states (better be pretty uncontroversial before THAT can be achieved, eh!) or by an ELECTED European Parliament. Constantly churning out the blatant lie that anything is forced on us by unelected, unanswerable people in Brussels, etc, will never make it more true. I can't think where your "self-evident" conviction can possibly be coming from. Not from reality, that's for sure. And again, ninety-nine percent of our economy, in terms of GDP, has nothing to do with the EU. As for the environment, tell me exactly how you think the EU is damaging or controlling it via unanswerable people then tell me why the Green Party is desperately trying to keep us in the EU.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 05:49 AM

To get back on track I wonder what cunning wheezes the master of the dark arts Mr Cummings has for our delectation and delight today? He has just been joined by an Irishman as head of digital communications, to reach the parts that others cannot reach.

Magic grandad is slipping nicely in the polls, 10 points behind Boris, and that is not even counting the brexit party. They are chewing away nicely at all those northern labour heartlands.

Should be an interesting week in politics


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 07:15 AM

In the meanwhile Baldric has a cunning plan to send 2 contradictory letters to the EU.

BoJo to send contradictory letters

Where is this story from you ask. The Guardian, that hotbed of communist revolution maybe? No, that well known fascist bum-wipe, the Daily Heil.

Maybe Dom boy is in the pay of BoJo's enemies? Maybe it is a plan of the clowns ringmasters to make Tess of the Dumbervilles original plan look good after all?

Who knows. Still, unless something happens before parliament is suspended we will have to wait a month. Hopefully the prorogation of parliament will have shot BoJo in both oversize feet as well :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 07:22 AM

"And Jim it has fuck all to with keeping people out. "
I'm afraid it has Al - go dig out Farage's Rivers of Blood Poster and put it alongside the spike in racist incidents
We've been through all this coastal communities shit - they are now running scared about having no access to European waters
FISHING
The Northern industrial communities are set fair to be hit hardest by Brexit
HERE
DETAILED STUDY
The North supported it because Farage persuaded them that immigratants were taking their jobs (they would have added "and women", if they thought they could have got away with it)
Not one of you stoppers inners have been able to put forward a single, viable reason for leaving
You've allowed yourself to be conned Al
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 08:21 AM

Let's put it another way - we've ended up in the shit.

We need to try another route. If you are content with a situation where your tax money goes to buy police cars from Skoda - if you want to extend this sort of largesse to our European neighbours - fair enough, I can see why you're really happy this week.

Of course the EU will hit us with everything they've got when over 12% of their funding disappears. But we didn't get into this shit overnight, and sometimes you've got to take the high road.

BWM -of course no one invests in us. Why would they when EU policy sticks the kybosh in wherever is most painful.

Jim - would it be possible for you to stretch your mind back to when we had virtually an open door policy to Commonwealth citizens coming here to work. West Germany at the time at the time had a strict gasterarbeiter policy and once their usefulness was over they had to piss off. East Germany actually had a wall round it. These countries had some making up to do. Our histories do not really start from the same page.

Anyway what the the bloody point. there are never any sensible rebuttals just reworded insults. the self righteousness quotient of the Remainers is up there in the guzillions. the last time i remeber anything like this was when the trots stopped Callaghan from making a single campaign speech, so clever and superior was their knowledge. And of course it ended in tears - 18 years of Thatcher.

By frustrationg moderate opinion on this matter - you will usher in the period of Farage/ and Boris - -possibly the most right wing gang of bastards in the history of electable British politicians. Well done fellas. You victory is virtually complete. because it will come to an election and you will lose.

I never really understood those lines about Lester Maddox in rednecks by Rany Newman- till I saw Boris in extremis last week - 'he may be a fool, but he's our fool. If they think they're better than him . - they're wrong.'


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 08:31 AM

It may help you if you got the simple facts correct Al. Thatcher was in power for 18 years.

Almost every report into Brexit has said that the UK will be worse off out of the EU.

These reports come from many sources which have studied the probably outcome.

Reports from the Banking & Finance industry, the Medical industry, insurance industry etc etc have all said we will lose jobs, we will go into a recession, we do not have agreements in place to ensure food and medicine etc etc.

If I thought for one second that the UK would be better off I would vote for it, but the truth is we will damage ourselves. For decades.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 08:34 AM

Your opinions are neither particularly moderate nor particularly well-informed. In my opinion, of course. It makes for very frustrating exchanges with you at times.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 08:47 AM

You also think that east Europeans are more inclined towards criminality than others, Al. You were wrong about that as well.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 09:17 AM

"Let's put it another way "
Why not responds to the points made Al ?
You're beginning to behave like Theresa May did when she was faced with questions she couldn't answer
Are you sure you're not her in drag ?
The driving force behind Brexit was always stopping immigration - can you explain why that is not the case ?
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 09:21 AM

Parliament to be prorogued tonight. Goody!
Wot abaht that bill that went stratospherically through the commons and Lords last week.
It is still but a bill I believe and the green grass wherein it lies is a growing longer by the day

OH happy happy days!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 09:30 AM

well seeing as I'm not well informed or moderate - let's see whose predictions come to pass. You clever well informed people or me.

not long to wait.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 09:41 AM

What some of the remainers here appear to forget is the fact that there has always been a sizeable number of people who, never wanted to join in the first place and then never wanted to remain back in 1975.

I don't think that has ever changed. For whatever reason some people have never liked the idea of being in the EU and they never will.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:05 AM

So why should they have had THEIR second referendum whilst we are denied one and denigrated for even suggesting it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:05 AM

What predictions are those Al? Those that every economic, comercial and political agency are making that there will be a lot of hardship or those of yours that when we leave the EU we will go back to the heady days of the 1960s where the British car industry was the envy of the world?

BTW - Playing the passive/aggressive victem does not suit you in the slightest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 10:51 AM

"For whatever reason some people have never liked the idea of being in the EU and they never will."
Hey have had over forty years to protest or make their displeasure known in some way or other - not a murmer until someone promised to get rigd of the foreigners Rain Dog
Shows exactly how opposed they were, I would have thought
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:13 AM

Jim Carroll posted "Hey have had over forty years to protest or make their displeasure known in some way or other - not a murmer until someone promised to get rigd of the foreigners Rain Dog"

I don't know what part of the country you were living in Jim, but in the past 40 years I heard quite a few making their displeasure know. A fair amount of it in the media as well. There has ALWAYS been people who did not like being in the EU. I don't think that any of you can deny that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:36 AM

I don't see what it has to do with "like." It's a unfortunate aspect of this world that underdogs either stay underdogs or go under completely. Sadly, that usually means smaller or less wealthy or less developed nations, or all three of those. The EU is a relatively benign institution which operates mostly with a light touch, with occasional very unfortunate exceptions (before someone chucks Greece at me), but always insisting on the rule of law, on democratic government and on human rights. Smaller and weaker nations are assisted and bigger and stronger nations help. That has done a huge amount to preserve peace and stability. It suffers from the disease of gigantism, as do China, India, the US and as did the old Soviet Union. Institutions seem remote and are vulnerable to attacks from naysayers who claim incorrect and negative things, such as that the EU is undemocratic or is run by faceless bureaucrats. Those things are no more true of the EU than they are of any of those other giants and also of ruthless giant multinationals. You don't have to "like" the EU in order to acknowledge these things. Just two little words: nothing's perfect.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 11:41 AM

Not even you, Steve? :-D


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 12:02 PM

Well, maybe... ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 12:17 PM

"I don't know what part of the country you were living in Jim, but in the past 40 years I heard quite a few making their displeasure know."
The North of England which is now experiencing some of the worst effects of leaving Europe
My nephew, who works fro Westland, is wondering if he is going to have to learn how to stack shelves in Sainsbury's because of his chances of not being able to travel to Europe with his job, I should imagine
Want a list of all the North of England firms threatened with having to move their business elsewhere
Try responding to what is happening if you don't believe what the govenment have predicted will happen RD
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 12:29 PM

You ignored my point Jim. I said there has long been a sizeable and variable number of people here in the UK who did not want to join the EU or remain in the EU. I have no doubt that has been the case in the north as well. Labour was split on joining and during the referendum of 1975.

As I said earlier in one of these Brexit threads, I voted to remain in the EU. I don't think there will be any substantial benefit by us leaving. In the short term I think there will definitely be disadvantages to us leaving. If we do leave I doubt that I will live long enough to see if gain benefit from leaving.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:16 PM

"You ignored my point Jim."#
And you ignore miine - if they continued to hold that view they would have shown their displeasure before now - either at the polls or on the streets
Has this happened - not to my recollection
Only a minority of the British people voted to leave a papeer thin majority of those who voted
Surely, if those who were unhappy amounted to a serious number it would have shown up in the referendum
The referendum was sold on stopping immigration, not economic advantage and a better standard of life for the people - that's mob-rule populism which touches the fringes of hate-incitement illegality, not democracy
As I said, you're ducking and diving the fact that Brexit has failed the country miserably and will be even worse if things proceed as they are
So farr it's brought down two Prime Ministers and closed down the democratic voice of Britain - Parliament
Britain stands on the threshold of ending up with an unelected dictatorship because it now has a Prime Minister who has shown himself to be willing to break the law
Don't know about you but it scares the shit out of me
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:28 PM

What predictions are those Al?
I suppose if you don't listen you won't hear.

I predicted that the antics of the Remainers will result in the the most right wing government this country has ever seen.

Most of it is to do the unmannerly way you have conducted yourselves and and refusal to engage with the reality of the fact that there is no way we will ever make the EU or EEC work for us.

Whatever list you produce Jim - it will be a smaller list than the industries that the period of the EEC/EU has done for. Not small firms - firms which were the basis of economic life for thousands of communities and millions of people.

Sneer away. Smear away like Dave indenial because my friend had a shop that Eastern Ruropean gangs robbed - calls me a racist. Drags it up now, after how many years.

like I say - no point in discussing with people who have no answers for the unanswerable. Just smears and sneers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:36 PM

There must have always been a number ofof people who didn't want to join the EU or stay in it, Jim. The simple fact that UKIP gained enough ground to twist Cameron's arm is enough proof of that. Because people were not demonstrating on the streets or causing civil unrest is no proof that they did not exist. It may have been a coordinated effort by those who wanted out and their press lackeys but enough leavers existed to provide them with fertile ground to sow their seeds of dissent.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 01:47 PM

Wrong again, Al. I was referring to this

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Big Al Whittle - PM
Date: 15 May 15 - 05:18 AM

People in my home county Lincolnshire are very. upset at the influx of Eastern Europeans, and the lawlessness they have bought to towns like Boston.


As I said. You are wrong about East Europeans being lawless and you are wrong about the EU being the cause of all our ills. Excuse me if I take the rest of your specious arguments with a pinch of salt.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 02:02 PM

I live in Lincolnshire. A family of Turkish Muslims live across the road from me, and a polish family live two doors away. They work and presumably pay their taxes, their kids go to school, they keep their houses and gardens clean and tidy, they are friendly and sociable, they are good, law-abiding people getting on with making lives for themselves.

Over the past 14 years, I’ve had numerous hospital stays - probably amounting to a total of nine months - and I’d estimate that 60% of the NHS staff have been ‘foreigners’, and 60% of those were Eastern European. When someone is keeping you clean, comfortable and, in my case on several occasions, alive, you really don’t give a flying fuck where they were born.

I’m not ‘upset’ at all.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 02:47 PM

Ducking and diving with your "must-bes again Al
Facts are facts and government predictions are what they are
Brexit is a fuck up incomaprable to anything that has happened soince the war
Shame on you
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 02:55 PM

Heh heh, just when you thought Johnson's term in office couldn't possibly get any worse ............. it has done.

"MPs have backed the Grieve motion requiring the release of some no-deal planning documents, and private messages from No 10 officials about prorogation, by 311 votes to 302 – a majority of nine."

I am slightly disappointed that only "some" of the documents will be released, although I reluctantly accept the reasoning behind this.

Sacrificial lamb come to mind for some reason!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 03:13 PM

This is plenty of Brexit threads - any more will be combined or closed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 03:25 PM

It's whether the people of the nation, y'know, all those knowledgeable leave voters, give a flying fart about any of this. They see big bluff Boris, shirt untidily tucked into his pants over his fat belly, and they see a hale fellow well met. A no-nonsense-sod the details-blokish bloke who hates Muslims, piccaninnies and women. Right up their alley, that lot. Then there's Jezza, ridiculed by four-fifths of the media and every public Tory and brainless, opportunistic Tory-lite LibDem who ever drew breath. Boris could stick out his fat arse and shit before the cameras and the thickie section of the public (the majority apparently) would love him for it. It worked for Trump. It'll work with this charlatan, unless we can come up with what the left are rubbish at, a cunning plan...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 19 - 06:29 PM

I believe Boris is a cult. At least that's how I think you spell it...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 02:00 AM

it seems to be getting more unpredictable by the day, how can Johnson talk about democracy when he does undemocratic actions.I believe any other government other than the presenT conservatives or Farage, would get a better deal from Europe right now, I resent the fact that the UK has become the laughing stock of the world.I also think that some of the people whovoted leave would never have done so if they knew that this mess was going to happen


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 03:53 AM

"I believe Boris is a cult. At least that's how I think you spell it..."
Seriously Dave - I'm afraid he is not
Johnson is now a part of the 'populist' mob who hold the key to success being used by politicians to overstep democracy (of sorts) by directly appealing to genuine fears and built in prejudices of the electorate
It hasn't been too successful since it was used to seize power in pre-war Germany, but the Brexit referendum reintroduced it into 'Free-World' politics bigtime - Trump came close on its heels and neo-fascist groups are using it all over Europe now to gain power and a degree of popular acceptance
We had a classic example of it here in Ireland when, in the Presidential election, a totally unknown (and very disgusting) Peter Casey deliberately targeted Travellers and leapt from nowhere to second place effortlessly

It would be a fatal mistake to put Johnson down as merely the talentless buffoon he obviously is - he is far more (less) than that - any moron ruthless enough to appeal to the people with a mob-message now has a major route to power

The really worrying aspect of all this is that when Powell made his 'Rivers of Blood' speech he was so much of an embarrassment to British politics that he was dropped like a lump of warm shit - now, the same message has given us Brexit
Johnson has been absorbed into the British political system and, in a matter of weeks has all but destroyed that system completely, and democracy along with it
Laughing and deriding Johnson is missing the point - that's what the bastard wants - he's a ****** showman

I'm afraid I feel the same about describing the electorate as stupid and gullible - they are most certainly not
They are people trying to survive in a rapidly deteriorating political situation, a major effect of which is a massively widening gap between haves and have nots
The facts of what is really happening, and why, is being deliberately withheld by the establishment and the lap-dog press
The referendum was typical of the dishonesty and distortion of what we are given in order for them to make decisions
We vote on what information we have at hand - if that information is incomplete or agenda-ised the decisions we make reflect that adversely
The people didn't vote for losing industries or threatened shortages or loss of jobs, or at least 20 years uncertainty for us and our children, but that's what we got
Please stop blaming that on the stupidity of the voters - that only plays into the bastard's hands
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 04:01 AM

how can Johnson talk about democracy when he does undemocratic actions

What can possibly be undemocratic in attempting to deliver the majority decision of the people's referendum?

THe remainers hijack parliament, ram through legislation with zero accountability, all to frustrate the majority. How do you manage to explain that away as being democratic?

Needless to say you will not answer because there is no possible cogent justification or explanation that you can offer.
You are a noisy, belligerent, insulting minority that shows nothing but contempt for democracy!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 10:01 AM

seems clear to me that a majority of mps are doing their best to deliver a brexit that will not be too damaging for the UK. by doggedly insisting on going for a no-deal the ERG etc are making any brexit less likely. if we have to go back to the referendum it's obvious that the country is evenly split. we cannot ignore majority opinion for a deal that will not harm the country. those of us who are remainers could probably go along with that as long as workers rights/freedom of movement/ environmental protection are protected (personally i'm not too bothered about trade deals i want my children to be able to continue working in italy and estonia - or to return here- a return to some closed border nonsense is a huge loss of our rights, goodwill with our neighbours and a more peaceful world)

it's horrible what is happening to our country - there is no place for loud insults and threats and accusations. i may be able to continue in my job in a cumbria town if i keep my mouth shut - otherwise i am a 'traitor' and 'will end up in hospital with views like that'

sorry - strayed off my main point which was that there will never be a majority in this country for a no-deal brexit. it may suit the very wealthy and trump and putin obviously, but no-ne wants to support the risk to their livelihood, security, human rights - or continual argument. our mps are trying their best to support a more positive outcome (at last) good luck to them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 11:17 AM

What strikes me over and over again is the comparison between to two warring factions - the dignity and adherence to common sense and democracy of those opposing this travesty of a Government, and the lying, distorting bullying thuggery of the Johnsonites who pretend to acting on the will of the same people they have previously referred to as "The Enemy Within" for refusing to do as they are told
I can remember one of their supporters here describing attempts to rehouse survivors of a horrendous London fire in unused private property as "theft", indicating that he would rather see them sleeping rough than infringe sacred property rights.
That's how deep these people's respect for the opinions of the people are when they can't be used for profiteering
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 11:49 AM

Incidentally
There iare signs of a marked increase in sectarian violence taking place in the Six Counties as a result of the controversy over Brexit at present - the main cause being the threat of a hard border.
This is echoed on the Mainland with a riot instigated by sectarian Loyalists in Glasgow a few weeks ago - if these bastards don't get their fingers out, 'Happy Days really will be Here Again'
Meanwhile, back at the Downing Street ranch, the DUP with its history of Sectarianism and its links with Paramilitarism, heve been invited to take part in 'intense and extensive discussion' on leaving Europe
Did someone mention "Contempt for Democracy" - I could have sworn they did ?
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 12:01 PM

"Contempt for Democracy" Yes you have, have you not?
In a democracy the majority vote wins. The majority voted very clearly to leave the EU. A FACT! What part of that simple statement can you not understand or accept. Your posturing is simply ridiculous. As you no longer have a vote in the UK I fail to understand why you continue to inflict your corrosive opinions on us. You cannot influence outcomes anymore so why continue to babble?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 12:41 PM

"so why continue to babble?"
Basically to draw out the frustrated and increasing violence your postings are beginning to display in order to show the true face of the undemocratic nature of this Government and of Brexit itself
If you can't conduct yourself without insulting and abusing those who disagree with you I suggest you remove yourself until you can
JIm Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 12:51 PM

How many times, Jim... :-(


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 12:54 PM

brexiteers who are convinced that there is a majority for a no-deal brexit would be the loudest advocates for a new referendum. if they were confident, they would. but as they aren't they try to deflect attention from the weakness of the argument and lack of a coherent plan by bashing away at the keyboard insulting or attacking MPs with principles and a bit of intelligence, while aggressively shouting down or attacking more thoughtful people at street/pub level. in my experience. i used to feel comfortable in my local pub. where, incidentally, a common narrative to the question of the day is to blame the irish (and jeremy corbyn and tony bliar for talking to them back in the day) for'stopping us getting our brexit'


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 01:11 PM

"How many times, Jim... :-( "
As many times it takes to put an end to this abusive and threatenign vomit Steve :-(
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 01:14 PM

I'm sorry you don't agree with that, but I was merely stating fact. People are upset about that very subject - to such an extent that comment on the subject has been banned on the Boston facebook page. Check it out if you think I'm bullshitting you.

A fact, despite its unpalatable nature, remains a fact.

Would you prefer it if I'd said people were deleriosly fucking happy because of the increase in lawlessness and its been a marvellous cross cultural experience for those getting robbed?

Okay, I'll say that.

Boris is a cult - surely a missprint!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 01:41 PM

There are still those posting here whose stance defies all logic and maintain the losers won. Is there no limit to their delusions.

brexiteers who are convinced that there is a majority for a no-deal brexit would be the loudest advocates for a new referendum
Why would that be?
WE had a referendum, we decided to leave, we wait for the government to obey the instructions of the majority of the electorate.
This is not a TV program, there are no action replays because you, in your arrogance, think voters got it wrong the first time around.

Your perpetual bleating is getting very tedious. You lost. Get over it.

Will we cross into the promised land in November, or will the rebellious remainiac knaves continue to frustrate the will of the majority? Have Cummings and Baldeick hatched a cunning plan?

Cromwell had the right idea. One step beyond proroguing


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 02:37 PM

Why not try my technique, Jim? I see his "name" (who knows...) at the top of a post and I DON'T READ THE POST. Been doing that now for two or three weeks. In my head, he's simply not here. It's liberating, like a breath of fresh air, I promise. Go on, give it a whirl!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 03:00 PM

In my opinion, if he's there, why not use him occasionally as a prime example of the extremists who support Brexit
He's like offensive graffitti - if you cant remove it, piss against it so people notice how bad it smells
Doesn't help to make a n issue of it
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 03:41 PM

Totally missing the point, Al. You are repeating the lie that east Europeans are more lawless than "us decent British". The facts do not bear that out. Just like the facts do not bear out your nonsense about the EU causing the demise of the car industry. Your comments do bear out Jim's contention that brexit and racism are inexorably linked though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 04:34 PM

The only reason shaw does not respond is because his only counter arguments are based on drivelling dogma regurgitated from the Guardian.
No logic, no facts, no links, no sense!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 04:41 PM

Avery small majority voted to leave, however none of those people have been asked whether they want to leave with or without a deal that is undemocratic


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 05:58 PM

Re Brexit & Westminster, you born-&-breds could lower your pride & let The Repatriate takeover: born in Manchester the day we won the FIFA World Cup, I was very highly trained in Australia; & if ever a nation needed a benevolent dictator for a few years... http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.com/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 07:10 PM

Not even a real majority, Dick, just 38% of the electorate in fact. We are allowing just over a third of the electorate, and a quarter of the population, to drag us out of the EU. Long before the referendum vote I was arguing that the bar for leave was set way too low. My view was that two-thirds of a minimum turnout of 75% would have been appropriate. It wasn't like a general election, which we can reverse after a few years. It was, in effect, an irrevocable decision to end a 47-year status quo. Allowing a simple majority to do that was totally inappropriate. The referendum was fatally skewed in favour of leave. Add to that, as you imply, that the campaign was mostly heat without light which made it difficult for everyone to avoid being uninformed and misinformed, and we end up with democracy trashed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 07:40 PM

There's a good discussion about the need for a supermajority (high bar) for important and irrevocable policy changes put to referendums on the website politics.stackexchange.com entitled "Why was the Brexit referendum conducted as a simple majority vote?" No ranting, no raving, no yah-boo-suck you lost, just rational discussion on a tightly-moderated board (and not everyone there agrees with me either). This may not be blue but it's still a sort of link.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 19 - 10:53 PM

Good points Steve, the other point about Democracy[ WHEN IT WORKS WELL] is that it should be able to take in to account changing situations
Democracy must be built through open societies that share information. When there is information, there is enlightenment. When there is debate, there are solutions. When there is no sharing of power, no rule of law, no accountability, there is abuse, corruption, subjugation and indignation. Atifete Jahjaga


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 03:51 AM

Hilarious to see the quiet valiant Brexiteer MAJORITY labelled as extremists by Carroll.

Mr Goebbels has done a real number on you!
"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty" This should seem very familiar to you. It is the only tactic you have.
But the majority can see straight through it and recognize it for the lie that it is.




While the remainer rats fight, as in a sack, the great believer continues to scheme. 'Who Dares Wins' they say. We shall see!

https://reaction.life/what-if-dominic-cummings-is-right/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 19 - 05:56 AM

One wonders whether the medical shortages predicted by Yellowhammer will include those for the treatment of the latest epidemic sweeping Britain - Brhysteria


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 04:39 AM

One wonders whether the medical shortages predicted by Yellowhammer will include those for the treatment of the latest epidemic sweeping Britain - Brhysteria

I do like to see a bit of balance

https://www.pgeu.eu/medicine-shortages/
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/post-authorisation/availability-medicines
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/post-authorisation/availability-medicines/shortages-catalogue

This has of course been pointed out previously but remainiacs do like to exhibit selective amnesia if it enables a boost to project fear.

I suspect they read a Gruniard article on the problem where EU was misspelt as UK


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: BS: revoking article 50
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 04:49 AM

if johnson revokes article 50 and then calls an election, if he wins the election with a majority, he could, then trigger article 50 again , then he can possibly leave the next day?, because the extension does not have a minimium limit. he would not have to say for two years because the 2 years is apparently a maximum time.
i mention this because this is just the machiavellian type of trick johnson might try to pull


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 04:55 AM

I live next door to Eastern Europeans, they are a decent well behaved family. They are my friends.

My old school friend's store got robbed continually by eastern european gangs. the police were totally overwhelmed by the situation, in atown where my Dad was a cop when I was a kid, and could keep the streets safe. The situation had deteriorated.

Those are simply the facts I reported and in your opinion gave you the right to call me a racist.

I didn't call you anything - despite the provocation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 05:08 AM

It seems to me that appealing against a judgement making the closure of Parliament illegal at a time when all of us, at home or away, needs to heal the devastation caused by Brexit is satotal betrayal of everything Parliamentary Democracy claims to stand for
No matter what Loord Haw-Haw drags up, Yellowhammer (what we have been allowed to see of it) has exposed a nightmare situation of cuts, shortages and civil disorder
The twats who closed Perlient and his those facts for so long, are not going to do anything about it even if they wanted to, which is doubtful and they have locked those who might be able to out so they can't do what they were elected too do
This is now an act of treason and should be punished as such
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 05:13 AM

The simple fact is that you said, on 15 May 15 at 05:18 AM,

People in my home county Lincolnshire are very. upset at the influx of Eastern Europeans, and the lawlessness they have bought to towns like Boston.

There is no way to interpret that as anything other than Eastern Europeans have brought lawlessness to these towns. No ifs or buts. By repeating that lie you are perpetuating the myth that East Europeans are causing more crime than the indigenous population. The only word for that is racist.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 05:13 AM

Al, a polite request - when you’re addressing an individual whose last post was several days previously, would you mind indicating in your post which individual you’re addressing please? It’s very confusing when you simply address your target as ‘You’. ‘You’ and ‘Your’ could refer to anyone.

Thanks in advance.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 06:00 AM

THE JUNTA'S RESPECT FOR THE BRITISH PEOPLE WRIT LARGE
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 06:07 AM

Hi guys, just for reference, is there a policy on this thread just to ignore the troll mouthpiece? Pity this forum does not have a block/ignore feature by which its posts won't show up under our log ins. Maybe something for the tech experts to look at?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 07:08 AM

"is there a policy on this thread just to ignore the troll mouthpiece? "
Ignore the goose-stepping clown - the Mods have described him as a troll and told us to do so ("like a fart", as one put it so eloquently)
Beyond me why he has to be tolerated at all after five years of his shit, but "Mod moves in a mysterious way" as they say
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 07:10 AM

”Hi guys, just for reference, is there a policy on this thread just to ignore the troll mouthpiece? Pity this forum does not have a block/ignore feature by which its posts won't show up under our log ins. Maybe something for the tech experts to look at?”

Yes SPB, there is - it's set out in ‘FAQ’ under ‘Etiquette and Advice - Dealing with Flamers and Trolls’...I’m not c&p-ing it here as it's fairly lengthy, but it’s easy to look up.

Also, we’re not supposed to discuss each other, or a thread of itself.

Most of us have adopted a policy of ignoring the resident troll, it’s a pity the remaining two or three who steadfastly continue to invite his nonsense don’t do the same.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 07:24 AM

Okay - lets just leave it - theres a bloke in manchester who thinks I'm a racist, cos I listen to my old school friends and he lives at the other side of the country and doesn't give a shit about what they have to say.

he knows better what going on - even though he's never been there - never talked to any of the people involved.

not interested.

Reallly like allthe remainers. just totally disinterested and disbelieving of everything a large part of the population are saying.

Communication is not going to happen. let's accept the fact.

Lucky we still have the vote.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 07:27 AM

100


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 07:44 AM

Do you believe that East Europeans are lawless then, Al? Dead simple question. Nothing to do with what people have said or where anyone lives. A simple yes or no will suffice.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 08:13 AM

"is there a policy on this thread just to ignore the troll mouthpiece? "
A large part of the country have been shown to be racist Al - between a quarter and a third of them
You, like Johnson, Moogie and Gove, are refusing to respond what is actually happening and are hiding behind the people to help you ignore the mess Britain is now in and likely to be in deeper and for a long time
You dismiss the facts as just facts - unimportant
I really did think better of you
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 09:41 AM

The Belfast High Court dismisses no-deal Brexit challenge.

Miller's case fails because Parliament demonstrates it can act quickly when minded too.Hence totally undermining the argument that Parliament needed more time(as if 3 years is not long enough.) e.g. The speed last week with which a bill was passed to cripple the freedom of action of the PM.

I do enjoy seeing factual content totally rebutting your asinine arguments labelled as trolling.I see you call all brexiteers racists as well. You all really need to learn the correct meanings of words and expand your vocabularies beyond the gutter.
When all you can produce is nonstop criticisms and insults it is clear you have no sensible arguments.You know what they say:You are on target when the flak gets thickest! For the last three years you and your ilk have faithfully followed the game plan designed by Goebbels. BUT! We can all see through it. No matter how much noise you make, or how many posts you manage to get deleted, you are a minority and you lost the referendum. Yet you continue, in your arrogance, to act as though you won.
I still await the day you justify your insults and manage to refute my arguments.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 10:11 AM

I know I shouldn't really but there are times when the temptation is too great.

It's working a treat chaps. Keep it up and I think we will witness the online equivalent of apoplexy before long :-D


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 10:37 AM

"It's working a treat chaps"
'Tis indeed, though I think your missing the permanent apoplexy
A bit like when Pat was taken to see Lucia Di Lammermoor and was asked, "What did you think of the mad scene?"
"What mad scene?", she asked
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 10:50 AM

Just as a general point, it might be a good idea if we stopped actually naming dead Nazis in posts criticising other forum users. As Dick Gaughan said on his sadly-demised website, in his advice to forum users, it's fine to call living people Nazis - as long as they actually ARE Nazis. On the whole, the practice gets us nowhere. Just a thought.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 11:12 AM

Anyone got any GOOD news about Brexit itself.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 12:05 PM

It is nice to see our proposed 35 billion contribution being put to good use. In Poland The retirement age has been brought back to 65 years of age, for men and 60 years, of age, for women. The previous government had introduced a phased increase of the retirement age to 67 years by 2020 for men and by 2040 for women.
Meanwhile back in Blighty we have the lowest pension in Europe and work the longest to get it

IN 2017 Britain was the second largest contributor to the EU and Poland the largest beneficiary(by a country mile)Source

The above is even more blatant misuse of funds than the CAP.
Embarrassing things facts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 12:09 PM

if johnson revokes article 50 and then calls an election, if he wins the election with a majority, he could, then trigger article 50 again , then he can possibly leave the next day?, because the extension does not have a minimium limit. he would not have to say for two years because the 2 years is apparently a maximum time.
i mention this because this is just the machiavellian type of trick johnson might try to pull


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 12:13 PM

I've just had a deja vu...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 12:21 PM

" it might be a good idea if we stopped actually naming dead Nazis in posts criticising other forum users."
Tend to agree Steve, after all, those guys aren't around any more to defend themselves from such comparisons :-)
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 12:56 PM

These are the kind of people the Leavers have put their shirts on.

And they wonder why we think they’ve let themselves be conned....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Sep 19 - 02:37 PM

Jays - don't they look at hom behind bars Bacckie
Fingers crossed
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 06:42 AM

Why be told what to do by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 09:20 AM

One of the best, and most unexpected analyses of Brexit I heave come across so far
Cor blimey - you could’a knocked me dahn wiv a fevver
Jim Carroll

Irish Times, this morning

HISTORIAN SAYS BREXIT BEING DRIVEN BY A ‘CRAZY NOSTALGIA’ FOR THE PAST
Max Hastings says those keen to exit E.U. need to realise that Britain is no longer important
Ronan McGreevy

Max Hastings, a former newspaper editor and now a historian, accused Boris Johnson and his government of being ‘completely indifferent’ to the fate of Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate..
Britain is not an important country any more and Brexit is being driven by an “almost crazy nostalgia” for the past, the historian Max Hastings has said.
Mr Hastings, who specialises in military history, said Brexiteers were leading “a dash for the past” for Britain in the belief that the country was somehow better before.
“They think that they can rebuild the Britain of the past and that will be great for Britain. I don’t share that view at all,” he said.
“Britain is not an important country any more and we are going to find it difficult. I never suffer from nostalgia. I never kidded myself that it was better to live in the second World War or to live in the time of Downton Abbey. ”
Mr Hastings is a former editor of The Daily Telegraph newspaper and was Boris Johnson’s editor when the now British prime minister was its Brussels correspondent. He said his former newspaper, which supports Mr Johnson, and others in the Brexit-backing press have allowed their papers to act “recklessly and irresponsibly” when it comes to the issue of the UK leaving the EU.
He told RTÉ’s Today with Seán O’Rourke programme that he had not changed his view that Mr Johnson was “wholly unfit” to be prime minister.

‘Falsehoods’
“Boris Johnson is peddling a budget of falsehoods and unfulfillable promises which I fear will lead us into terrible trouble,” Mr Hastings added.
“I keep hoping for the sake of our poor country that things would turn out better than I feared they would, but so far there is not much evidence of it.”
In his early days as a reporter, Mr Hastings was based as a correspondent in Northern Ireland.
He accused Mr Johnson and his government of being “completely indifferent” to the fate of Northern Ireland and the British government’s policy towards the North is being driven by “sheer insouciance and carelessness”.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 09:45 AM

Mr Hastings posts but an opinion with zero facts to back up his assertions(like someone else who posts with monotonous regularity here)

Interesting finding in the Belfast court case trying to scupper brexit.

    “Neither NIA 1998 nor the international treaty scheduled to the Belfast Agreement (or, for that matter, the Agreement itself) has the effect in law of requiring the continued membership of the EU on the part of the UK. In his judgement Lord Justice McCloskey thoroughly slapped down the spurious arguments that the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement hinges on membership of the European Union

    The Supreme Court was alert to this in Miller: Furthermore, none of the sources mentioned subjects the EU 27 to conclude an Article 50 Withdrawal Agreement in any particular terms.”

    “Once again, neither the Belfast Agreement nor this suite of provisions was predicated on the basis that UK membership of the EU would continue forever. Neither of them can be construed as requiring a customs Union or continued regulatory alignment. More fundamentally, there is no sufficient evidential foundation for the incompatibility assert"ed. There is no suggestion that the incompatibility has already materialised”..............
" Considered in their totality they point inexorably to the conclusion that these cases trespass upon the prohibited domain of the non-justiciable."

That finding has left egg on more than a few faces.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 01:46 PM

Selective copy and paste with no link.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 01:56 PM

Guido - who the hell do you think - his intelligence doesn't reach beyond that
In fact it is a typical distortion of the truth
The verdict was that it was political situation - not oe that could be decided legally
It was pretty much in line with the situation described by the woman legal expert of last night's interesting 'Question Time'
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 02:10 PM

I do wish you chaps would stop it. All that happens when you kick shit is that it spreads it about, causes a stink and makes a mess of your shoes!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 02:29 PM

"I do wish you chaps would stop it."
Dave
With resprcy, I've been intending to comment alll day on last night's programme and how it impinged on this decision, which is what I did
I have no problem whatever helping Rag to learn the information (sic) put up was strate from the ling pen of our extremist right wing blogger with direct links to the British National Party
The more people know where this shite is coming from, the batter
Stop making an issue of it - you're drawing more attention to him than anybody else has
More later, when I've washed up
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 02:50 PM

The fact that it is that Guido tends to be ahead of the mainstream on things political because he has many feeds from inside Westminster. The cabal have yet to find any lies or misrepresentation on his site
but to prevent further nonsense, I will take great delight in giving you some links, if only to highlight the stupidity of some of your remarks.

https://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-case-boris-johnson-4805883-Sep2019/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/northern-irish-court-dismisses-case-against-no-deal-brexit

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/uk-regions/northern-ireland/news/106487/northern-ireland-court-throws-out-claim-no-deal

https://www.irishlegal.com/article/high-court-three-challenges-to-brexit-strategy-found-non-justiciable

Strange the BBC thinks it not worthy of reporting, but like many items I post it goes against the narrative.

One moderator asks I supply links!
Another moderator deletes many of my posts containing links!
Tis a funny old world!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 03:13 PM

I wasn't looking forward to last night's 'Question Time' - always foung Norwich a tad redneck - what a pleasant surprise
A number of the audience appeared a bit fed up with Brainless Boris's idiocy, but there was not a single voice in favour of what the Government were doing
Fiona Bruce (much better than Dimbleby) won my heart forever when, after one questioner trying his best to get an answer from the Brexiteer businessman about Brainless Boris's criminal behaviour, she said - "Leave it at that - you're not going to get anything from him - take it from me"
The two Brexers were humiliated by the other speakers hands down - wonderful stuff
The DUP sectarian has the nerve to deny that the bung they were given wasn't to buy their votes (maybe he had an eye on another one

The icing on the cake was when not one of the audience supported thuggish wife beater Boycott's being on the Honours list - not one !!

I halw wished one would, explaining that it might help expose the fact that these honours are meaningless back-slaps for the Hons and Debs - from the wealth to the wealthy
Enjoyable night (with Rush to look forward to)
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 19 - 06:02 PM

It wouldn't, in my opinion, be too much of a stretch to say that, but for Jim and Raggytash, Iains would be long gone.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 02:28 AM

if it hadn't been for cameron he wouldn't have been here at all. mind you , nor would we. the whole of the uk dragged into this stupid tory argument. we are all to blame for getting involved. even if the tory party implode we will all still be stuck in the arguments for years - all remainers, squabbling. given that this is our inescapable fate we must learn how to do it with a lot more respect, wit, compassion and 'who-gives-a- fuck-anyway' than we have managed so far


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 03:22 AM

the whole of the uk dragged into this stupid tory argument.
Nice try at deflection but simply not true, as you know.

Howsabout this?
Blair:( 20 April 2004)
"The British people will have the final say on the proposed EU constitutional treaty in a referendum."

Labour election manifesto in 2005.Blair promises: "We will put it [the constitution] to the British people in a referendum.

He reneged on the deal as did the Broon.

Labour promised twice to have a referendum but did not follow through.
To argue it is purely a Tory problem is obviously nonsense.
Terrible things FACTS! This is the same Labour party demanding an election constantly over the last two years and when offered one twice
immediately ran away.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 03:29 AM

I note that the ghastly Cameron is blaming Johnson and Gove for, well, just about everything...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 03:38 AM

I agree with Steve's comment of 13 Sep 19 - 06:02 PM, Jim.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 04:00 AM

Let's move on
I've taken to watching late night Sky News programmes lately and I watched an interesting debate on Brexit last night which was chaired by the the historian on Question time
It made me realise what a depressingly divided and damaged country my late home has now become - I can't see my wanting to ever visit it again
People are now openly lying about everything
So many people seem to be ignoring the dangerous use which is being made of Populism which is swinging Britain further and further into the arms of the Extreme right
Not one speaker dealt with the rise of racism because of its use in the election - even the decent ones are talking about the paper thin majority ad 'democratic', which it most certainly was not
One twat claimed the referendum a "massive majority in favour of leaving" hen it was a paper-thin anomaly which even Farage never expected - even the decent members of the debate didn't challenge him
What's happening to Britain - isn't it enough that the politicians are the laughing stock of the Planet without the rest becoming so ?

"Iains would be long gone."
Dream on Steve - he has vomited his filth on this forum far longer than we
became the sole commenters on his behaviour
Anybody as impervious to the contempt he has earned with his extreme and insulting behaviour as long as he has been, is not going to move off, and the Mods are obviously going to do nothing to clean up this forum
If he behaves in Staffordshire as he does here, I doubt if he has anybody to talk to there - we are all he has - work it out for yourself
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 04:10 AM

I repeat my previous comment.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 04:20 AM

since WW2 there has been a general consensus in the west to unite, to make treaties and attempt to keep the peace and keep the trade flowing, for growth and prosperity - for the already wealthy, obviously. this capitalist version of 'progress' allows obscenities like grinding poverty in the south, like the proxy wars we fight in poor countries, like the gross exploitation in poor countries to provide us with the shit we feel we need to validate our existence. and of course w must spend countless trillions of dollars on weapons of war and expand the reach of the (mostly us) military. we spend far more weapons than we need to solve all the problems of health, education and security for everyone on the planet. (this is all one with the climate emergency we now face as the above has moved on to a destruction of the planet led by crazed neo liberal and fascist leaders but that is probably an argument for another thread)

my old man read the daily mail for maybe 75 years til he died at 93 a couple of years back. it rotted his mind. he used to cut pictures out of, say diane abbott getting out of a car, cherie blair looking a mess or harriet harman stealing our taxes to show us. he couldn't understand why we weren't impressed, as all his family were of a far more positive/feminist/green/left mindset. anyway, like many of us he was completely sucked into this adversarial, PMQs interpretation of politics where a politician's appearance meant everything - all explained for him through the lens of the daily mail. he was an old soldier who never fought in the war but kept an abiding distrust of foreigners and was an instinctive brexiteer. of course, he voted to leave though lied to his family about where none of his 6 grandkids had any time for that shit as they are surrounded by friends and partners from many parts of the world. they are also aware of the importance of unity and peace and the environment as the only really important things in these dangerous times. 'our house is on fire but most of us aren't bothered' - someone else will fix it.

(to attempt to return to the point) here in the uk the european question has split the tories since thatcher times. occasionally grubby little fascists like farage and various bnp/edl/nationalist groups try to divide us and make the situation worse. cameron's crime (and blair too as Iain says above) was to fail to deal with these depressing messages from the far right other than by trying to appease them with a referendum. our politicians have consistently apologised for immigration rather than celebrated it; they have supported war rather than fought for peace; they have been intensely comfortable with the very wealthy rather than pursue equality; they have messed about (eg PFI) with our precious public services and are now actively trashing them. to add insult to injury when the banks crashed they were bailed out with public money. by - ffs- a labour government.

we are where we are now - in a mess. and really the petty squabbles about brexit - whose fault it is? - are really silly and the sort of thing that would have exercised my dad if he wasn't reading about the vegetables on corbyn's allotment or whether megan markle was killing the royal family. my opinion is that our faults on a larger scale i went on about above are what has caused brexit - that and our leaders complete failure to offer a more positive vision for our country and the planet.

while we can all see that johnson/corbyn/trump/gove is a dick. does it really matter? (though mogg/IDS/farage are on a different level of hideousness altogether) - shouldn't we be looking away from this horror show to a more interesting, hopeful and colourful future. (with greta thunberg, caroline lucas, chris packham, alexandria orcasia-cortez, naomi klein etc) it's going to be a hard fight but we may have a chance if us old gits could manage to die off before we have finished our job of trashing the planet entirely.

sorry for going on - i just woke up this morning read some naomi klein and thought - i've been getting really bored and pissed off with the whole brexit thing but it doesn't really matter much - far more important to look at the poverty in this country and everywhere and fight climate change - green new deal is the only way, innit?


i got a bit


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 04:21 AM

"I repeat my previous comment."
Don't bother Dave and stop prolonging giving him the attention you keep sayin he wants
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 04:41 AM

So, what you mean, Jim, is that everyone should stop discussing it apart from you and after you have had the last word? Fair enough. Feel free to carry on dancing to his tune. No skin off my nose but we all know who's responses are feeding his need. Have the last word. I guess I need to ignore both sides of the exchanges rather than just one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 04:53 AM

Well it is a brexit thread, Pete, but I fully share your sentiments. Every day I wake up to this continuing insanity.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 05:10 AM

"So, what you mean, Jim, is that everyone should stop discussing it apart from you "
Ill make a donation to a named charity if you can point out where I have entered int discussion with him - I use his contradictory vicious idiocy to underline his stupidity and the stupidity of Brexit - no more
If the mods are going to put up with their being described as "politically biased" and their deleting his offensive postings as "censorship" and on occasion "fascist" he is with us as long as the mods decide they want him here
We need to face that fact ans deal with it as best we can
I'm not prepared to stay silent while he uses threads like this as a propaganda hate site sor Tommy Robinson and his brother-in- hate, Paul Staines - sorry
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 05:48 AM

Good to see the usual idiocy at play. Attack the messenger because the message is unassailable.
Classic argumentum ad hominem

It is all you remainiacs have to fight with!

Here again for your delectation and delight are some self evident truths, namely we brexiteers won the referendum and expect to see it delivered.
Leave         17,410,742         51.89%
Remain         16,141,241         48.11%

51.89 TRUMPs 48.11 Only one vote more is required in a democracy.

After all Fiona Onasanya, the former jailbird, wearing an ankle tag, voted against a No Deal Brexit, which lost by one vote. Her vote.’
Should that vote be retaken, did she breach her curfew by voting, should we let the people decide?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 06:30 AM

I don't know how to be plainer, Jim. First, he can't use this as a hate propaganda site because if nobody looks at it it isn't very good propaganda. I'm guessing that no more than three or four people here ever read his posts. I'm not one of them any more. Now let's predict what will happen if:

Nobody reads his posts

Nobody mentions him

Nobody falls into the trap of seeming to be responding to any point in his posts

Nobody mentions the mods in the context of his posts

Nobody falls into the trap of responding to his occasional "seemingly-reasonable" posts (he always reverts to type within minutes).

See what I did at 03.29. I followed his post as quickly as I could with something entirely unconnected. That's the way to show him that we are blanking him. In the short term he'll become even more shrill, even more neurotic, even more insulting and even more irrational than he is now. Let it all sail on by. One of two things will then happen: he'll get sick of talking to himself and evaporate away, or the mods will see how well we've isolated him and strike him out. It's all about outcomes, Jim, outcomes.

This will be followed by a silly ranting post from him. Well, now that I've said that, it might not happen. But this is the very last time I'm going to refer to him in any way at all. Let him stew, Jim. His idiocy is actually on display to very few people, and if you let it rile you then it makes you a sucker. I only said "if" there, note. I've tried, dammit, I've tried. On this topic, it's over and out from me.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 06:33 AM

"Staines has four alcohol-related convictions including two for drink driving. In 2002, Staines was banned from driving for 12 months for drink driving. ... He was banned from driving for three years, as well as being given an 18-month supervision order and wearing an electronic tag for three months."
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 06:55 AM

Sorry lads
The sheer imbecility of accusing someone of criminality and defending a fourfold criminal in the same posting was really too good an opportunity to miss
Won't happen again
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 10:13 AM

I did not accuse Fiona Onasanya of criminality, it was the Crown Prosecution Service that brought the prosecution. Onasanya was found guilty on 19 December 2018 of perverting the course of justice for lying to police to avoid being prosecuted for speeding. She unsuccessfully sought to secure permission to appeal the conviction. Her expulsion from the Labour Party, effective in December 2018, was announced in January 2019. On 29 January 2019 she was sentenced to three months in prison. She was removed from office on 1 May 2019 after a successful recall petition, automatically triggered in cases of a custodial sentence of a year or less, under the Recall of MPs Act 2015, prompting a by-election, making her the first MP to lose their seat through this process.
On 12 March 2019, Onasanya voted against the Government's Brexit withdrawal agreement, leading to its defeat in the second "meaningful vote". This was reported to be her first vote in the House of Commons since her release from prison and the first occasion that a MP voted while wearing an electronic tag
It always is useful to check your facts, lest you appear stupid.

The remainder of your drivel is simply attacking the messenger rather than the message. Do you not all get bored by such puerile activities.
Here is something Guido posted that will not make the headlines:
Labour's Anti-Semitic conference fringes Tsk, tsk!!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 10:57 AM

In my defence Steve, I was making an observation not commenting on what was posted or replying to it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 11:55 AM

As long as we all know what to do. Enough's enough, eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 01:33 PM

Rats in a sack boyos, you are behaving like rats in a sack!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 02:20 PM

Another Tory joins the Tories - oops, sorry, I mean the LibDems...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Sep 19 - 02:55 PM

"I was making an observation not commenting on what was posted or replying to it."
Me too
It seems a lost opportunity to waste such perpetual idiocy
Otherwise I agree totally with the Mod who advised that we "treat it like a fart"
Occasionally I like to reprimand my fart when it has been a particularly bad one

One for the joke thread
Trump was attending a Royal dinner at Buck House when Madge lets off a skirt-lifter of a fart
A gentleman a few seats down the table stood up hurriedly, apologised profusely and quickly walked out of the room
Trump whispered (loudly) to his neighbour, "What's with him - she dropped it?"
He was told, on occasions such as this, a gentleman always takes responsibility for such mishaps".
Five minutes later Madge drops another one.
Trump stands up and says, "It's OK ma-am - this one's on me"
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 08:08 AM

A truly shocking indictment of the Mother of all Parliaments.
Brought about directly by the rogue speaker and those that cannot accept the referendum result


Comres poll findings.
The poll showed that Remain voters were fed up with MPs, with 73 percent of them saying Parliament is in desperate need of reform, compared to 85 percent of Leavers.
The results also show that 73 percent of all voters believe that Parliament does not attract the brightest and best, and that as an institution it puts political point-scoring above the interests of the country.

“To say that Parliament is in desperate need of an overhaul is a gross understatement,” said ComRes’s chairman Andrew Hawkins.


In a boost to Boris Johnson, 59 percent agreed there should be an election if the Labour/Remainer “surrender bill” to force another extension of EU membership succeeds.
In the week that John Bercow announced he is to step down as Speaker, the findings are a damning indictment of his decade-long tenure and confirm that the divide between Parliament and the people is at crisis point.

It follows a shambolic end to Parliament which saw anti-Brexit MPs singing songs and waving placards in the chamber.

Last week, BBC Question Time audience member Charlie Neil received an ovation when he told panellists: “You’ve had three years and three months, and you’ve done nothing but argue among yourselves like little kids.

“You’ve got no respect for each other and you’ve got no respect for the British people.
Just go away.”

ComRes’s Mr Hawkins said that the disillusionment was sparked by Parliament’s failure to deal with those trying the thwart the 2016 Brexit result.

Remainiacs would happily trash democracy rather than accept the very clear fact that they lost the referedum.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 08:20 AM

Liberal Democrats at thei Conference are planning to scrap leaving Euope indefinitely without a Second Referendum and concentrate of repairing the damage done by this fuck up

David Cameron has revealed that Borish Johnson has never supported Brexit but decided it was a way of repairing his pathetic image
The fluttering sound of chickens coming home to roost is becoming deafening
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 01:53 PM

Camerons confessions seem to have sent the Klarts straight into the fan
Thieves falling ut - all great stuff - beats Downton Abbey any day
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 02:04 PM

So Cameron tells us, accurately, that Johnson and Gove are both massive gits (we didn't need to be told, actually, call-me-Dave). What he doesn't tell us is that he's the most massive git of all. Prepare to be massively lied to about why he called that massively disastrous referendum.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 05:36 PM

And the pink Tories (oops, sorry, "LibDems"), that ragbag collection of protest-vote winners and ex-disaffecteds, have decided that when they win a majority (some time in the twenty-second century if they're lucky), they'll overturn brexit in summary fashion. Which puts them at odds with Labour, the Welsh Nats, the SNP and the Greens. Ditching a potential alliance that could get rid of the Tories. Handing the election to the Tories on a plate. Well they've done it once, and they're Tories in all but name, so why should I be surprised? Useless bunch of tossers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Sep 19 - 08:45 PM

Amazing turn of events - now Johnson thinks he's THIS FELLER
How long are Brits going to allow this retard to embarrass them !!
YOU REALLY COULDN'T MAKE THESE MADMEN UP
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 19 - 01:01 PM

Summed up nicely in The London Economic

Best quote from there, Michael Dragon's tweet. "My favourite episode of The Incredible Hulk is the one where a small group of people shouted too loudly so he ran away" :-D


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 19 - 01:02 PM

Dragon's? Deacon's! Unless my spill chucker knows something...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 16 Sep 19 - 01:14 PM

A very interesting commentary of where we are and the dangerous forces remainiacs are playing with by denying the outcome of one of the biggest biggest votes in UK history.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uUYRcFXVQ8

I wonder if the supreme court finds Boris guilty or decides the judiciary has no place in the proceedings. They also play a dangerous game by potentially giving a rabble a slight element of credibility, despite them not having the guts to let the people decide by way of an election.

Dangerous times. A rogue parliament defying the majority of the electorate. If democracy is broken, what happens to the rule of law?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Sep 19 - 01:16 PM

European meeting ended with nothing resembling a deal
European Prime minister's office too small to house all the journalists so he took questions outside while Johnson pissed off without saying anything - must have heard a whisper that the's cheap wine to be had in Luxomberg
Nice to know that 'The Incredible Hulk' is batting for Britain with all his strength
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/16/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-talks-juncker-eu-must-show-flexibility-says-raab-ahead-of-boris-johnsons-key-meeting-with-juncker-live-news-latest-news
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 19 - 08:17 PM

Well what a day. Johnson has behaved comically, making a complete fool of himself in Europe, looking unprepared and rambling, making us embarrassed to be British.

In the meantime, we have Swinson. The Swinson who called for an in-out referendum almost before it was a twinkle in call-me-Dave's eye. The Swinson who, as a minister in the coalition, helped to enable ten years of austerity, pitching millions into misery. The Swinson who helped to break so blatantly the solemn LibDem promise on tuition fees. So now, ha bloody ha, she's telling us that a majority LibDem government would scrap brexit just like that. As Tommy Cooper might have said, not like that, like that. No referendum. And she would refuse to support either Labour or the Tories in a hung parliament.

Well I'll tell you summat. My constituency, North Cornwall, and the West Devon one next door, we're always traditional LibDem seats. Like nearly all the seats in this one-time LibDem stronghold which is the south-west, most people voted leave. So that's screwed it then. The Tories keep 'em all. She and her ragbag assortment of a handful of electees and a tawdry bunch of opportunist disaffecteds are going to be very disappointed when they get about a tenth of the seats needed to get their majority. And they WILL support one of the Big Two. It's what glory-seeking LibDems always do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 19 - 08:19 PM

Damn that rogue apostrophe...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 03:03 AM

"Johnson has behaved comically, making a complete fool of himself in Europe,"
I think it is a mistake in ignoring what Johnson is actually doing here Steve
I believe he is deliberately creating for himself the image of the champion of the people leading the fight against the foreign interlopers
I watched the one-man press conference yesterday and was struck by the articulate dignity of Bettel who, instead of slating Johnson, just pointed out his cowardly absence from an vitally important opportunity to publicly put the case for leaving Europe - a total betrayal of the British people fot sake of self-promotion
The Brexiteers and their media lap-dogs are presenting this as a slight of the British and their leader
THat's how populism and extremism works - "any criticism of my master is a slight on my people"
These have become dangerous times
One of the main influences on Brexit was initiated by the creator of the disgraced Ukip Party which appeared to collapse under its own ridiculous excesses
THIS HAS BEEN ON THE CARDS FOR SOME TIME NOW
When the Tory Party finally collapses, as any party at war with itself and the people it represents inevitably will, you can bet that the scum of the right will scramble to fill the gap
You can lay good money that political careerists like Johnson will take any support they get to scramble the greasy pole - The Brexit Party is little more than an organised Ukip replacement in a suit
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 03:34 AM

mods - didn't like it when ads started to appear in the threads on mudcat. however, this morning i find 2 ads asking me to define my personality on what kind of gun owner i am? what the fuck! do you have any concept of how offensive this, particularly in the uk? do you have no control who advertises on here? once we start to normalise the idea of gun owning we may as well give up...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 04:21 AM

The ads are getting more intrusive and more strident. I can't think that Joe would approve the one that split my last post in two - something about passion, a large photo of a crucifix complete with the nailed-on Christ and a caption urging me to make her "scream all night..."

I wasn't ignoring what Johnson is trying to do, Jim, and I agree with your post. I've made plenty of comments to that effect. Mrs Steve doesn't post here, but if she did she'd confirm the amount of ranting and raving at the telly I did during those news bulletins yesterday. Of course, Johnson's idiocies will go down only too well with those unfortunately large numbers of brexiteers who are feeble-minded, bigoted and ignorant.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 04:38 AM

"Of course, Johnson's idiocies will go down only too well with those unfortunately large numbers of brexiteers who are feeble-minded, bigoted and ignorant."
Many of these are as much victims of Brexit as much as those who oppose it
We are all suffering now from this stupidity - think how bad it's going to get if it ever gets through
If Johnson and his circus represents Britain , then Britain has become a feeble-minded, viciously misogynist and racist place, devoid of humanity - that's what Johnson and his junta has proved themselves to be over and over again
I prefer to think of my birthplace as far superior than that, but of course, everyone views ther home-place with fondnes and respect - very different from Brave New Brexit
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 05:24 AM

Well, Jim, it'll take an election to find out whether Johnson really represents Britain. Only a few mostly-white, mostly-rich, mostly-male Tories have so far voted for him. And the next few weeks will be a very long time in politics. He hasn't put a foot right so far. Can you see this unprepared oaf improving that situation?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 05:38 AM

Have just PMd you Steve
I thing the penultimate posting above makes my and your PM points perfectly, don'y you
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 05:49 AM

I don't agree with you and I've responded to you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 08:31 AM

"Well, Jim, it'll take an election to find out whether Johnson really represents Britain."
Having watche the opening shots of the appeals, actually it won't Steve
The appeal is that Johnson has breached hia authority as PM and has placed himself above the rule of parliament for political and personal purposes
They argue that the period for which parliament was closed is unprecedented and thet Johnson has lied when he clams it was common practice; that it was, in fact, to prevent Parliament debating a nationally important subject in order to over-ride it
This not only goes against the Constitution, but is in fact illegal
Johnson was expected to provide an opening statement explaining his actions - he has not done so
When asked what he will do if the decision goes against him, he says he will see what that decision is
This smacks of a political coup which, if successful, will be out of the hands of the electorate
One way or the other, either the courts will decide whether he is fit to represent Britain or he and his cronies will
No politicians who has behaved as he has can never be allowed to stand as leader again, especially as he has openly undermined the British legal system
He has behaved exactly as Trump has in the US - he is dismantling British democracy and making it fit his own extremist, perverted political outlook
He is rapidly becoming an openly out-of-the-closet fascist with his little army of insignificant nodding dogs backing him
The world has been here before - in my lifetime
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 08:39 AM

The only surprise AFAIC is that anyone is surprised.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 08:43 AM

Incidentally
The argument has been that attacking Johnson is attacking the British people
If you believe that this turd in any way represents Britain, or anything other than his oen ambition, you have a far lower view of Britain than I do
He is a self-promoting right-wing extremist using the British People as his Stairway to the Stars - nothing else
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 02:00 AM

This not only goes against the Constitution, but is in fact illegal

opinion not fact!

The bill of rights clearly states: Debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament'

I fail to see how the court action can possibly succeed. The judiciary are playing with fire.

"the key issue is about “justiciability”, or whether the prime minister’s use of the royal prerogative should be subject to legal scrutiny. The Judicial Power Project at the thinktank Policy Exchange has argued that judges are usurping parliament’s powers through excessive “judicial activism”

This constant recourse to law in recent times cuts both ways of course.?
Can a law be passed when the Queen's consent was not granted?
Can a rabble pass laws in Parliament when they have no accountability.
This latter point is further strengthened by the argument that twice the rebels were offered an election to give legitimacy for their decisions. Twice they refused. In essence the majority of MPs constitute a rogue parliament in opposition to the will of the people.

The inescapable conclusion is that the rebels are very happy to thwart the minority government wish for an election because they know full well, that should an election take place, they would end up with no mandate from the people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:28 AM

"No politicians who has behaved as he has can never be allowed to stand as leader again, "
Having given this a bit more thought, I think it needs refining
Politicians who have behaved as johnson and his army of zombies have should be permanently disbarred from becoming involved in politics again
They have deliberately betrayed those who elected them by damaging the institution that give people their only say in how our lives are organized - the electoral system
We vote for those who we wish to represent us - Johnson has seized the right to dismiss them if they get in the way of his ambitions and intentions
He has deliberately lied to both Parliament and to the people; he probably lied to the queen
He has hidden facts on medical supplies, food, jobs, the future of industries in Britain, transporting goods... his whole technique is based on a string of lies and secrecy
His party commissioned an enquiry on what might happen after a hard Brexit, it was hidden from the public, it was said to be out of date, now it is claimed to have been sorted

Most politicians lie but few base their carers on it, as the otherwise unelectable Clown that is Johnson has
No-one who is even suspected of behaving as he obviously has is fit to be involved in representing the British people, let alone being a national leader

He doesn't have to worry about being out of a job - I have little doubt that he would be welcomed with open arms, with its reactionary and archaically conservative history.
If they gave Mad Enoch a seat, Barmy Boris would be dragged through the front door
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:31 AM

That last was a reference to the DUP, of course
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 05:07 AM

Opposition parties resisting government policy with all their might is absolutely why we have a multi-party system in the first place, the keystone of our democracy. I note that the word "rebel" has been massively employed in recent weeks to characterise pejoratively every MP who doesn't support the Boris line. The correct term for them is opposition, not rebels. I suppose the 21 (or have I lost count) Tories who defected might justifiably be called rebels, but even then I wonder whether you can still be a rebel when you're not even in the party. Words make good weapons. I note that a recent much-overused Cummingsism, popping up in just about every Johnson pronouncement, is the reference to "our friends and partners in the EU." Repeated use of mantra-words is an attempt at brainwashing. Resist!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 05:43 AM

Whatever the figure, you need to add the 43 cabinet or government ministers who went before Johnson shat on the Parliamentary scene
Among the three women who resigned together, Anna Sourby wone my heart fror describing Nigel Farage as "looking like someone who has inserted his finger up his bottom and is rather enjoying it"
She can have my babies anytime
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 06:11 AM

It has not been disclosed how many of the women who resigned did so to escape Johnson's 'gropey' proclivities
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 06:44 AM

Dominic Cummings: Boris Johnson aide given formal powers to sack cabinet ministers' advisers


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 07:16 AM

Of course those that do not like the way Boris is behaving have a very easy solution. This was offered twice to the opposition, by way of a General Election. On both occasions the opposition chickened out.
Why was that do you suppose? Could it be they know they would be thrashed?

Your perpetual whining is rather comical as you have not the courage to rectify your complaints. How pathetic is that?
You are all acting like a lettuce that has been left out in the sun for a week, limp and vapid!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 08:16 AM

Dominic Cummings has been given formal permission to sack advisers to cabinnet ministers
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-cummings-boris-johnson-cabinet-minister-aides-civil-service-sajid-javid-a9109836.html

British Parliamentary Democracy is now in the hands of Johnson's Gestapo
The move follows the furore over the dismissal of Sonia Khan, an aide to the chancellor Sajid Javid, who was frogmarched out of Downing Street by an armed police officer last month.
This is a scene familiar to all of us fans of films of wartime Germany
We can only hope Ms Khan Mr Khan takes up her option to sue the arse of these goose-steppers before they extend their grip to the rest of us
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 08:18 AM

Sorry Mac - was so angry I didn't notice your posting
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 09:00 AM

Sonia Khan was sacked after a leak of plans for a secretive Privy Council meeting for the Government to ask the Queen to suspend Parliament for a month in the run-up to the planned Brexit day on October 31.

Any compensation would revolve around her guilt or innocence. If guilty summary dismissal is entirely reasonable.

Jumping to conclusions and making wild allegations such as :
We can only hope Ms Khan Mr Khan takes up her option to sue the arse of these goose-steppers before they extend their grip to the rest of us
is wild, hysterical nonsense, and deeply insulting to the 17.4 million that won the vote for brexit to happen.

As usual no proper reasoned argument, just the usual string of insults
(that are never deleted)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 09:20 AM

Interesting sting in the tail regarding dominic Cummings been given gestapo-rights because he is said to be the "architect of Brexit"
The architect of Britain's

From 'Farming Independent, August 14th 2019
Vote Leave Brexit campaign and the senior advisor to Boris Johnson has been labelled 'a hypocrite' after it emerged a farm he co-owns received more than £200,000 in EU subsidies.
Dominic Cummings' farm received CAP farming subsidies that he described as "absurd" before the Brexit referendum. According to the UK's CAP Beneficiary database, the Durham farm Mr Cummings co-owns with members of his family received around €20,000 per annum for a number of years.


These people are pulling our collective pissers
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 09:59 AM

Incidentally
THe heroic Ms Khan was sacked for her pert in the heinous crime of passing on the findings of a report which revealed that people needing vital medicines might not be able to get them when they needed them, that people whose jobs relied on a free flow of transport to and from Europe, might well find themselves out of a job within three weeks, and that anybody protesting about it could be part of a "civil disorder" problem and end up banged up in one of Johnson's new jails
Rather than being " frogmarched out of Downing Street by an armed police officer", she merits a medal for her services to humanity and those attempting to conceal such information deserve to be put in a pillory in Trafalgar Square and have excrement thrown all over them for the rest of their disgusting and miserable lives
In my opinion, of course !!!
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 10:12 AM

Would this Dominic Cummings, who has been ‘given formal powers to sack Cabinet Ministers’ advisors’, be the same kind of ‘unelected bureaucrat’ that Brexiteers declared themselves so fed-up with being told what to do and when to do it by?

WTF happened to Dom & Dumber’s very own battle-cry, ‘Take Back Control’? Oh, of course - they’ve given control to...... errrrrmmmmmmm.....an ‘unelected bureaucrat’!

You couldn’t make it up. And if you did, nobody would believe it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 10:47 AM

Trouble is, John, every single complaint that brexiteers come up with can be dismissed in seconds:

"We need to take back control"... what of ? Our borders that we have got full control over when it comes to non-EU immigrants but which we don't bother to control? Our money, of which the princely sum of one percent of our GDP is actually tied up with the EU and which affords us the benefits of tariff-free trade with by far our biggest trading partner across invisible borders? Our laws, the ones having anything to do with the EU having been overwhelmingly agreed to by mutual consent - bearing in mind that our domestic laws have nothing to do with the EU and that we are free to run our lawmaking and judiciary in any way we like? Our sovereignty: any brexiteer care to tell us, in this era of May being FORCED to consult parliament and Johnson being in court for trying to bypass parliament, what "sovereignty" the EU is stealing from us?

"Ever-closer union": not without our say so. As one of the largest member states we can veto any moves in that direction that we don't like.

"There'll be a European army"...impossible whilst we're members. We've vetoed it. Of course, when we leave it'll probably happen!

"Unelected Brussels bureaucrats dictating our laws"... a profound lie. The Commissioners (a body to which we belong) suggest laws and regulations which are either adopted by common consensus or put to the ELECTED European Parliament. No unelected bureaucrat has any power to enforce new laws or regulations on anyone.

Any more for any more, brexiteers? Don't forgot to tell us how things will improve if you get your way, please! And by the way, if you want to moan about gravy trains and inefficiencies, which I heartily agree are present, don't forget to tell us how we are any better in this country now and how things will get better if we'll leave.

To quote the mighty Raggytash, and in a nutshell, any good news yet about brexit?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 11:02 AM

Spot-on Steve. But, of course, it’ll fall on deaf Brexiteer ears.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 11:02 AM

Not only control over non-EU immigrants, Steve. We have control over EU immigrants as well. See the Full Fact article detailing how. Once again though, our government choses not to. Nothing to do with the EU.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 11:04 AM

Trouble is, John, every single complaint that brexiteers come up with can be dismissed in seconds

Only when they are arguments. I was talking to someone earlier today who voted remain but would support anything including no deal because she 'just wants it all over'. Yes, I know whatever path we take it won't be over for decades, but that siren call of 'get it all over with a clean break' appeals to many, I fear.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 11:19 AM

But a ‘clean break’ is nonsense, According to an ex-official of the Brexit Dept. There simply is no such thing, no matter how the Brexit-Brigade wish for it.

Another pig in a poke Dom & Dumber have sold them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 12:00 PM

There simply is no such thing, no matter how the Brexit-Brigade wish for it.

I agree, but it will not be a matter of wishing for it. It will be another promise. What's another lie, after all? Farage was at the vote in the EU today spelling out what no deal means from the EU's point of view and the consequence to the UK, but I imagine it will slip his mind when we talks to the public.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 12:01 PM

*he talks


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 12:40 PM

It seems to me the only way out of this is to remove non-elected minders like Cummins, allow Parliament to return asap and agree some sort of coalition, approach Europe for at least a year's stay of execution to sort our a provisional compromise with the elements which have caused the now known problems (particularly those involving the growing increase in racism), and after a long, open discussion to put to the people to see if they wish to reaffirm or withdraw their original decision
The damage and slits done to the various communities has to be a priorityn
Nobody can then say they haven't had a chance to vote based on information and experience
If the decision remains unchanged - duck
The alternative seems to be decades of disruption and conflict and an extremely damaged country
An unattainable long shot maybe, but what alternative is there ?
This nonsense has to be nipped in the bud soon
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 01:23 PM

If it was my choice Brexit would be taken of the table and used as a the bum-wipe it deserves rot be, but that's not going to happen
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 06:08 PM

Johnson sinks to new low in lying when confronted by irate parent on photo opportunity visit to hospital
Talking about his sick daughter's inadequate treatment at Whipps Cross Hospital, our gallant PM was told he has no right to use hospitals for media opportunity political gain when they are in the state they are in
JOHNSON LIED - IN FRONT OF A PRESS CAMERA - THAT THERE WAS NO MEDIA PRESENT
You really could not make this level of idiocy up - Britain really is in safe hands with these moron mental deficiants
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 06:29 PM

I am hardly one to leap to the defence of MR Johnson's approach to governing, and nor do I have much criticism of the parent's complaints, but on this one the PM may be being treated a little unfairly. What people are calling a lie is more likely a 'category error': when he says 'the press' he is thinking of the Telegraph, Times and the Guardian, the Mirror and the Sun, and when moving to wider media the BBC, ITV, CNN and the rest. It is press conferences and and podiums. So a few people with cameras - and I can't find out who they were - probably are not enough to count as 'the press' in his mind. For people with a less public profile, a person carrying a video camera beyond the consumer level probably says 'press' to us.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 03:31 AM

Time for judges to butt out of politics. A reasoned argument, unlike the preceding hysterics( I read the"father" was miked up ahead of the ambush of Boris- a bit of Déjà vu methinks)


https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/judgment-day-the-danger-of-courts-taking-over-politics/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WEEK%2



Sky News's tweet - ""What do you mean there's no press here ...
https://www.trendsmap.com › twitter › tweet
11 hours ago - @BorisJohnson was confronted by a Labour activist during a visit to a hospital .... Anothe ambush on behalf of the left. ... He was there visiting his critically ill daughter but ”father at the hospital with his sick daughter” ... A Labour activist who just happened to be mic'd as well ???? ... he was microphoned up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 03:37 AM

It was obviously a deliberately set up photo-opportunity Mac - he wasn't at Whipps Cross visiting his mam
He was actually challenged (a more and more apt word as far as Johnson is concerned) by the irate father on why he should have been using a hospital for publicity which had caused his daughter such problems because of poor treatment
He obviously panicked and deliberately lied, saying there was no media there
Sky news showed film of the event
Whatever the level of coverage, it was a piece of self promotion held at a hospital that has obviously fallen victim to the present situation

One of the most outrageous aspects of this whole situation is that Dominic Cummings (the mover and shaker of most of this) has encouraged/ordered him to close Parliament at a time when our politicians need to be discussing a national (even international) crisis and what exactly is the self-appointed dictator of the UK doing -
Maria Callas-like diva impressions in Europe by flouncing off and refusing to talk to the press and friggin' self promotion jaunts around failing hospitals
Wonder were he's doing to hold his rallies - Trafalgar Square's far too small
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 03:50 AM

It seems you are not allowed to critices Herr Johnson if you happen not to agree with him
THis gets more and more sinister
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-hospital-brexit-nhs-cuts-labour-activist-parent-whipps-cross-a9111261.html
You will only be entitled to comment on the state of hospitals if you support the New Order
This is an attept to silence all opposition - inside and outside Parliament
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 03:52 AM

And it's apparently placing itself above the law by attacking the courts in case their judgement goes against the Coup
Creepier and creepier
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 04:05 AM

I agree it was a photo op created to pass a message *to* the press, Jim. But if the photographers were hired by his PR staff he may have thought of them as 'my staff' rather than 'the press'. But we are talking about what might be going on in the mind of a third person, so it is obviously very uncertain. I was simply saying I could imagine a way where it is not an outrageously blatant lie, but a more human failing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 04:26 AM

He was there to be seen on camera and attempted to create the impression he wasn't - that was a lie, albeit politicians lie
Doesn't make the slightest difference to the main point Mac
Having silenced Parliamentary activity at a time like this, this feller is poncing around self promoting
LOOK FAMILIAR !!!
Meanwhile his vicious supporters are shrieking when a member of the only real opposition party points out what has happened to his daughter on the very day of Johnson's visit
The black shirts would really have been on display if Labour had gotten off their bums and organised political activity to stop this insanity
I hope to christ they get their arses into gear and organise some real opposition before the cliff-edge gives way
Having been criticised for speaking to Lord Haw-Haw, I think it's times like this when they are needed to show us exactly the nature of the sewers we are having to wade through
Since when has demanding answers from your elected representatives been considered AMBUSHING, especially when it concerns the health of a member of your own family ???
THis gets sicker and sicker (as does the child, apparently
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 04:59 AM

And it's apparently placing itself above the law by attacking the courts in case their judgement goes against the Coup

Freedom of speech is guaranteed by article 9 of the Bill of Rights 1689: `freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament'.

I see no ambiguity in article 9. The court case is a farce


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 05:01 AM

Fabulous news
Labour is beginning to reverse Blair's destruction of its principles with a re-establishment of Clause Four
Instead of our industries pissing off abroad like the Dysons of this sick world or simply collapsing, perhaps they'll fare better in the hands of those who actually do the work rather than just leech of it
Hope it's not too late and we actually have any left industries after this sorry xenophobic-created mess
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 05:29 AM

"left industries "
Freudian slip - we can but hope
I meant industries lef, of course
"British Justice a farce"
Thate - you have it from the donkey's mouth
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 05:59 AM

May as well repeat this heer

Never thought I'd agree with this man -

Sir John Major has compared Boris Johnson to a dishonest estate agent,
saying that he had “ulterior motives” when he prorogued parliament.      
The former Tory prime minister,       whose lawyers will intervene today at the Supreme Court, has said in written submissions that Mr Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament was “unlawful”.
He argued that Mr Johnson’s justification for prorogation to bring forward       a new legislative programme “makes no sense and cannot be the true explanation”.
In a clear suggestion that Mr Johnson should not be believed, Sir John wrote that it would be “artificially naive” for the court to accept the prime minister’s stated reasons for the prorogation.

Talk about thieves falling out
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 08:22 AM

Whatever the outcome to today it seems to be a case of U.K. - RIP
Wales has appealed against Johnson, a Northern Ireland representative has described the devastating effect all this will have on the Good Friday Agreement and Scotland has already won their case back home
No organisation of States can possibly survive that
Add to this Cameron's confession that he attempted to influence the Queen on the Devolution Referendum - you have Britain going to war with itself
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 01:14 PM

It seems Madge has just handbagged Cameron for telling tales out of school
It seems nobody loves this dreadful minority Government any more, including many of it's own members
Bout time it was put out to grass - one Britain clears up the devastation it has caused, of course
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 01:49 PM

Instead of our industries pissing off abroad like the Dysons of this sick world or simply collapsing, perhaps they'll fare better in the hands of those who actually do the work rather than just leech of it
Hope it's not too late and we actually have any left industries after this sorry xenophobic-created mess


More drivelling nonsense!
Let us take an example of British Leyland, where the unions thought they ran the show. Mr Edwards,was a veteran of corporate confrontation; his chairmanship of the British Leyland group was one of the definitive battles against trade union dominance in British industry. He was appointed in 1977 a year in which Leyland had lost production of 250,000 cars through industrial disputes. The shop stewards thought that with a Labour government they had the whip hand and could force Edwards to back down. BIG MISTAKE. He did not! They caused the loss of both factories and jobs and the company survived to fight another day.
I suppose you think that canny entrepreneurs like Dyson and Branston leech off the workers, yet their perspicacity actually created all the jobs. You obviously know absolutely nothing about business, but as you were but a sparky this is hardly surprising. If letting the workers control everything was the panacea you claim it to be it would be in worldwide use with clever people like Dyson and Branston leading the pack. Sensible people recognise the stupidity of the idea, hence it is not practised.

The UK is the second largest manufacturing country in the EU and still ranks number 6 in the world so to talk about Britain having any industries left is rather a silly statement.

Perhaps you need to add fact checker along with spellchecker to your Christmas list.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 05:34 AM

Boris Trump-Johnson, on a self promotion romp in Wiltshire yesterday, told reporters (he managed to recognise them this time) that he would not rule out closing down Parliament again next month
He would wait for the outcome of the Appeal Court's findings before deciding anything
It appears that if this appeal fails he will be given carte blanche the right to crown himself Emperor of Britain
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 06:04 AM

That is supported by a point raised in the closing remarks for the government yesterday. They said that if the court were to rule the prorogation were illegal, that should be its limit: it should not rule on what should happen next.

An interesting consequence of the Scottish Court decision what that the prorogation should be 'null and void'. That means it should be as if prorogation had never happened. As a result, the ability to prorogue would be as it was before the prorogation happened, and so there would be no obstacle to proroguing again immediately.

Given that the case has - in my interpretation - hinged on whether if illegality arose it did so from the duration or the claimed motivation of preventing scrutiny, I would be surprised if the Supreme Court decided it was illegal because of an attempt to prevent scrutiny but left open the route to do precisely that again.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 06:08 AM

I find it mildly amusing that if the ruling goes against the Government they can appeal - to the ECJ.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 21 September 3:42 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.