BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 03:13 AM

What a frighteningly appalling display of goose-stepping violence in yesterday's Westminster gathering - made the Winter Palace Gatherings way back look like tea on the lawn
I fear this is the start of something really nasty
Something far more sinister slipped quietly under the wire yesterday when a court ruled that it wasn't illegal for referenda such as this to be funded by foreign money, so letting one of the Brexiteer backers off the hook
Some time ago. Marine LePen called or an international confederation of ultra-right groups - incidents like these and Russian interference in British and American politics are signs that this is beginning to happen
Even the efforts of a group of locals in Co Galway banded together to block the establishment to a refugee center went international this week and was heralded as a great victory by the European arm-raisers
I have little doubt that, (if he survives), Johnson will turn to Tump (if he avoids impeachment) to create a Brave New World (Adolph and Benito ride again - no prizes for guessing which is which)
Happy days really do seem to be here again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 04:50 AM

Something far more sinister slipped quietly under the wire yesterday when a court ruled that it wasn't illegal for referenda such as this to be funded by foreign money, so letting one of the Brexiteer backers off the hook

A typical pack of lies and distortions by little jimmy. I really cannot understand why he is continually allowed to post garbage.

THE REALITY

The National Crime Agency (NCA) has said it has found 'no evidence that any criminal offences have been committed' after the Electoral Commission referred allegations against Leave.EU and businessman Arron Banks.

Britain's FBI accepted a referral from the Electoral Commission of a number of alleged offences against Leave.EU, its chief executive Elizabeth Bilney, businessman Arron Banks and a company called Better for the Country Ltd.

It claimed that Mr Banks was not the true source of £8 million in loans, and that the company through which they were made, the Isle of Man registered Rock Holdings Ltd, should not have been used to make donations because it is registered outside the UK.

But, in a statement the NCA said it had 'found no evidence that any criminal offences have been committed under PPERA or company law by any of the individuals or organisations referred to it by the Electoral Commission.

'It will therefore take no further action against Mr Banks, Ms Bilney, Better for the Country Ltd or Leave.EU in respect of this specific matter'.   

Banks, nicknamed the 'Bad boy of Brexit', has been dogged by claims he was backed by the Kremlin to help bring about the UK's divorce from the EU - but he has repeatedly branded it 'b*****s'.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 05:24 AM

WHY IS THIS INDIVIDUAL STILL BEING ALLOWED TO CONTINUE POSTING THE WAY HE IS MODS ?
I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE AN EXPLANATION FOR THIS STRANGE LAPSE - ARE YOU ALL ON HOLIDAY?
Respectfully
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 07:18 AM

I'm getting fed up of saying this. The nonsense about fears of a "European army" was one of the many lies propagated during the leave campaign, and, though I've mentioned this umpteen times here, it's depressing to see the lie still being told in this thread (cf post of 01.57pm yesterday). So here it is again: the European Commission can't propose a European army, no matter what the expressed aspirations of EU leaders are. It is beyond its remit. If individual EU countries want to get together to join forces, well good for them, but an official EU army is impossible unless ALL 28 MEMBER STATES AGREE. As the UK does not agree, the whole notion has been effectively vetoed. To put it simply, while we are members, there will never be a European army of the kind being vexatiously postulated by lying brexiteers.

So what's the lie? "As members of the EU we will be forced to participate in a European army" (a lie oft embellished with the threat of our young lads and lasses thereby being vulnerable to conscription).

So what's the truth? There will be no European army, no matter what any EU bigwig says, while we are members of the EU. What's more, if and when we leave the EU it will mean one state fewer demurring at the notion, therefore actually increasing the possibility of its happening.

I really do think that this one should be put to bed once and for all.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Stanron
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 09:49 AM

You are expecting me, a Europhobe, to believe two impossible things, although it is after breakfast. First that the EU will not get the veto removed by promising to various opponents that if they vote 'correctly' they will be guaranteed a position on the Commission a few years after retiring and second that the politicians will resist the temptation.

I believe that the veto has little time left.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 10:10 AM

Your mistrust of Europe is hardly conducive with the threat of sectarian violence that now hangs over Northern Ireland Stanron
The possibility of a return to that violence was raised by a Northern Ireland Baroness in The House of Lords yesterday
ou people have not shown the slightest interest your Brexit is already doing to other countries and you have compounded that by accusing Ireland of being intransigent on the border issue, despite the increase in paramilitary activity and the recent sectarian attack in Glasgow   
Now you are making Europe the threat in the same way you have made The British Parliament an obstacle to your ambithings
It's about time you people got yourselves a big mirror and contemplate what you are doing to peace and stability
JIm carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 10:12 AM

And where's your evidence for that particular piece of fearmongering?

I've just seen a tweet from Katya Adler, the Beeb's Europe editor: "Chances of getting a deal with UK by the EU leaders’ mid Oct summit were never seen here to be high. Now contacts describe the likelihood as « pretty much nil »" She posted that after getting reaction in Europe the disgusting display by Boris Johnson in the Commons yesterday.

She generally has her finger on the pulse, I've found...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 10:12 AM

My question was to Stanron.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 10:18 AM

Sorry for the interruption both
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 10:24 AM

Feel free to interrupt any time you like when I'm talking to a brexit fancier, Jim!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 10:49 AM

Apparently, the earliest we can have an election now is Bonfire Night (I have my Guido Fawkes effigy ready and I have a little placard next to it which says "I wouldn't give you tuppence for the guy"). But it behoves all the opposition parties to continue to refuse him an election until no deal is off the table and we've extended. That's not frit, Boris dear boy. That's tactics. We don't need any assistance to make you look like an even bigger failing idiot than you already are, but every little helps. It's good to see them all united on this. I was slightly worried that the SNP were getting a bit over-excited about it but all's well. Wouldn't it be good to see that united front continuing. I saw quite a good idea in the paper this morning. Unite under Jeremy Corbyn to win an election with him as PM (there's no alternative right now) on condition that there's a firm commitment to bring in PR as quickly as possible during that first term, then promptly call another election under its terms. In the meantime, that new referendum will keep us where all sane people know where we should be in our best interests, right here in the EU. We live in hope!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 10:51 AM

Gosh, that's an awful lot of elections in a short time, I suppose...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 11:04 AM

I'm getting fed up of saying this. The nonsense about fears of a "European army" was one of the many lies propagated during the leave campaign, and, though I've mentioned this umpteen times here, it's depressing to see the lie still being told in this thread (cf post of 01.57pm yesterday). So here it is again: the European Commission can't propose a European army, no matter what the expressed aspirations of EU leaders are. It is beyond its remit.

Not nonsense, not a lie, FACT:An Advisory Mission in Iraq, a Military Training Mission in the Central African Republic, a Maritime Operation in the Mediterranean and an Assistance Mission in Ukraine are among the most recent additions to over 30 civilian missions and military operations launched by the EU since the Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP) became a reality almost 15 years ago.EU Factsheet

1)Opening Statement in the European Parliament Plenary Session by Ursula von der Leyen, Candidate for President of the European Commission
I believe Europe should have a stronger and more united voice in the world – and it needs to act fast. That is why we must have the courage to take foreign policy decisions by qualified majority. And to stand united behind them.

The cornerstone of our collective defence will always be NATO. We will stay transatlantic and we have to become more European. This is why we created the European Defence Union. Our work for our European Union of security and defence is embedded in comprehensive security. Stabilisation always comes with diplomacy, reconciliation and reconstruction.

Our servicemen and servicewomen work side by side with police officers, diplomats and development aid workers. These men and women deserve our utmost respect and recognition for their tireless service for Europe.

2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy

3)https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/world/europe/eu-military-force.html
Let us revisit the question in 10 years and see who is right and who is wrong. The EU defence force already exists in all but name. Even a
unified command and control structure is only just over the horizon
https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-8798-2019-INIT/en/pdf If Brexit finally occurs all the above will race ahead.
I look forward to seeing your retraction and apology for calling me a liar

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 01:26 PM

Brexit nutter breaks into MP's office screaming "fascist"
It's started
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 03:04 PM

Cummings has now told a Labour MP to vote for Brexit to avoid death threats. Are there no depths these people will not sink to? I hope our resident brexiteers are proud of the people they support.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 03:25 PM

And I see BoJo's sister is now denouncing his language.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 03:30 PM

Brexit?? nutter breaks into MP's office screaming "fascist"

More lies off little jimmie.
There is no mention at all as to the political affiliation of the man arrested.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 03:34 PM

It's not all bad Dave. Johnson suffered his seventh loss in the vote yesterday to close Parliament for the Conservative party conference.

In fact, as far as I am aware he has yet to win a vote!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 03:54 PM

Further to the denial of an EU army, I wonder why armoured cars have EU markings while being used against protestors in Paris? I wonder if the crews are French?

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/gilet-jaunes-paris-eu-flag-16824885

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 05:39 PM

As you all know, I'm a very simple man. Tell 'em, Raggytash! So here, hopefully for the last time, is a very simple and very simply true statement emanating from me as a very simple man: while the UK is a member of the EU, there can be no EU army. Anyone can check this. No need to elaborately resort to straw-clutching links that are virtually unreadable. So there. Why do I bother. Someone here is going to severely strain themselves to prove that I'm wrong. But I'm not. Anyone can check. Preferably via neutral sources not designed to feed your confirmation bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 06:08 PM

It is rather surprising Steve that "some" posters cannot differentiate between mainland Europe and the UK.

Mind you considering some of the ranting that goes on .............!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 07:50 PM



From The Independent, September 2019
"Does the public support Leave or Remain?

Polls show the public now consistently supports Remain.

The polling has showed Remain in front in a hypothetical re-run of the original referendum since soon after the Brexit vote in 2016.

That's not necessarily a slam dunk - Remain was also ahead in many polls before the original vote - but there has been clear daylight between the two for several years now, and there is evidence the gap is growing.

The most recent results from NatCen's "What UK Thinks" report show Remain on 55 per cent and Leave on 45 per cent.

The running average at Britain Elects, which takes in all relevant polling, shows Remain at 53.3 per cent and Leave at 46.7 per cent.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 08:00 PM

It looks as if asked to give an extension the 27 national governments will agree - but I'd be pretty sure that, if there was a referendum across the EU, the popular vote would be to refuse any extension, and wave goodbye. Trying to keep the UK in the EU is really, I suppose, an example of the EU's notorious "democratic deficit".

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 19 - 09:17 PM

It's a rock-solid cert that an extension will be granted. It isn't quite a rock-solid cert that we'd vote remain next time, but it's a rock-solid cert that such a result would have leavers moaning that democracy had been betrayed. Even though democracy had been served very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 02:47 AM

take back control..vote labour

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 03:01 AM

"take back control..vote labour"
No Dick - that should be, "Learn to co-operate with other peoples in order to build a better world for all"
Britain has historically proved it is not fit to be in control of anything and nowadays it it proving itself "not ready for independence" as it used to tall its Colonies

I agree with Steve that it is uncertain how any future vote on Britain would go and , given the right circumstances, I'm not sure how I'd vote on being part of a confederation of States whose political aims I basically oppose (I really can't forget what happened when Greece attempted to adopt policies based on humanitarianism and fairness for all)
The dangerous rise of right wing extremist Populism disguised as democracy makes it imperitive to stay in Europe at present, but if Brtian does leave, it can only be described as democratic if the people who vote for it to do so hare given all the facts and consequences and be allowed to have them discussed openly with the xenophobic hate taken out
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 05:39 AM

while the UK is a member of the EU, there can be no EU army. Anyone can check this. No need to elaborately resort to straw-clutching links that are virtually unreadable. So there. Why do I bother.
It already exists in all but name. Military operations occur that are EU badged.
How long do you think the individual veto is going to last?

Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission
"....... That is why we must have the courage to take foreign policy decisions by qualified majority."

Do you seriously think it will end with just that? It is the thin end of the wedge. Below an old article but nothing has really changed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/9289992/At-the-heart-of-Europes-crisis-is-the-abolition-of-the-nation-state-an

At the entrance to the Visitors Centre of the European Parliament, there is a plaque with these words:

    “National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times….The only final remedy for this evil is the federal union of the peoples.”
They were written by Philip Kerr, later the Marquess of Lothian, who was a British diplomat and arch-appeaser in the build up to the Second World War.

Guy Verhofstadt (at the LibDem conference)
“In the world order of tomorrow, the world order of tomorrow is not a world order based on nation states or countries, it’s a world order that is based on Empires

Those rose tinted glasses you insist on wearing are doing you a great disservice! It seems pretty obvious to me that complete federalism is the end game, with all that it entails. There is plenty of disseminated data floating about in cyberspace that can be pieced together to see what the varlets are up to. You just require the nous to gather it up and ponder! The drawback of having a particular political persuasion is that it infects you with tunnel vision dictated by the party line. It will sleepwalk you into a nightmare.
Take a look about, smell the coffee and try thinking for yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 07:42 AM

I watced Question time last night with disgust as the Tory Moron refused rto answer whether he believed Johnson should apologise for using the murser of a dedicated politician to promote Brexit - as he did
The nasty little prick was forced in the end to say he believed Johnson had nothing to apologise for
Nobody questioned Johnson's well established contempt for women when de described complaining of th threats against women politicians as "humbug"
His misogyny is not confine to throwing glasses of wine at them, it seems - just the kind of leader Britain needs
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 08:17 AM

It seems everyone is fair game now

Lawyers arguing case against Johnson now in danger

Any of our leavers had death threats yet?

Thought not...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 08:34 AM

It must be unprecedented to have two leading world leaders accused, (and in the case of Johnson found guilty) actin illegally
Wouldn't it be good if they were forced to share the same cell ?   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 09:09 AM

Johnson's action was found to be unlawful.
Trump is being accused of acting illegally.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 09:23 AM

"If all the elements are made out of the offence then there would be a criminal conviction and a sentence, which can be up to life imprisonment."
WISHFUL THINKING, I KNOW!!

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 09:39 AM

I noticed a Johnson defender making that distinction this morning, Raindog. The two words illegal and unlawful have been used interchangeably for several days in much of the media and by politicians, so I'd suggest that trying to hang on to the distinction in the current context is, for now, fruitless. We all know what we mean. I've been saying unlawful, simply because that's what the justices said. But I'm not that bothered.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 02:25 PM

Surely the distinction is that Mr Johnson has been found guilty of acting illegally, by a panel of judges. Mr Trump has not as yet. And of course he won't be, because in impeachment the redict is purely political, and there's a Senate majority that will dismiss all charges, irrespective of any evidence.

Illegal and unlawful are essentially synonymous terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 27 Sep 19 - 02:46 PM

Interesting extract from the Supreme Court ruling:
In paragraph 34, the Supreme Court states that its ‘proper function’ under our constitution is to give effect to the separation of powers (which justifies court intervention in relation to prorogation). Then, in what appears to be an innocuous sentence in paragraph 55, it says that it is to be “remember[ed] always that the actual task of governing is for the executive and not for Parliament or the courts.”
In paragraph 46 it says:

    “Ministers are accountable to Parliament through such mechanisms as their duty to answer Parliamentary scrutiny of the delegated legislation which ministers make. By these means, the policies of the executive are subjected to consideration by the representatives of the electorate, the executive is required to report, explain, and defend its actions, and citizens are protected from the arbitrary exercise of executive power.”
The Benn Act then arguably destroys the very principle of parliamentary accountability, which the Supreme Court cited as a cornerstone of the British constitution.

If the Benn Act is unconstitutional, the next question to ask is whether the Court has the ability to rule that it violates constitutional norms and provide a legal remedy.
The way is now open for Boris Johnson to refuse to comply with the Benn Act on the legitimate ground that the Act is unconstitutional and that the courts (and ultimately the Supreme Court) will agree; and even if the Court won’t go so far as declaring it an actual nullity, then at least they will refuse to enforce it.

The Law of unintended consequences kicking in early?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 05:23 AM

Wonderfully succinnct summing up by Banksy of what Britain's politicians have been turned into by thus bunch of thugs -
The fact that it was painted a decade ago makes it all the more a thoughtful work of art

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/and-finally/banksy-says-artwork-of-mps-as-chimps-put-on-display-to-mark-brexit-day-37961570.html

Can't blue-clickie it unfortunately but I would be grateful if somebody can - every home should have one
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 05:53 AM

When his own sister speaks out, even the most brain-washed and addled Brexiteers must surely begin to see that there’s something very, very rotten going on in the dark, secret recesses of the Brexit- Brigade’s Bunkers...??

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 06:58 AM

WHAT JOHNSON'S SISTER SAID
Well worth a read, especially how her brother "honoured Jo Cox's memory" tpby using her death to promote something she had given her life defending
These are truely sick bastards

Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay has reprimanded members of the Government for attempting to present a watered down version of the backstop - "The Backstop has to go"
This indicates that there are no meetings with Europe planned because Johnson has no intention of coming to an understanding with the E.U.
Europe can't agree to removing the backstop betraying its member states and the British Parliament have forbidden leaving without a deal
Johnson is promoting mob rule to replace the democracy he can't control - hence the IMPENDING VIOLENCE
No doubt BORIS'S LITTLE HELPERS will be there to give the boys in blue a hand
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 07:32 AM

Little helpers?

27 Sept
"Police in Lewes in East Sussex are investigating a spate of suspected hate crimes committed overnight on Thursday, including the bricking of an anti-Brexit campaigner’s window, antisemitic graffiti on a garden fence and Nazi symbols daubed on a house.
Eugene Gill woke up to find a half brick had been thrown through his kitchen window where he was displaying a “Stop Brexit” poster, residents in The Avenue found "Fuck the Jews Soros's Whores Traitor's [sic]" sprayed in 2ft-high red letters along a fence, and a wall on Paddock Close was sprayed with the slogan: "Save Old Sussex Kill a DFL SOS" with the S’s written in the style of the Nazi SS logo. DFL is a derogatory term for someone who has moved down from London to the South Downs market town."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 08:21 AM

Fascism has been prodded out of it's not so long sleep big-time by scum like Farage, Robinson and now Johnson's Junta
Ukip more or less goosestepped and blundered its way aot of existence - a rejected laughing stock, but guess what
NATURAL RUNNING-MATES
If things don't get sorted pronto Jo Cox is going to find herself in company if her sactifice isn't given the respect it merits
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 11:42 AM

Yet another example of the violence of the leave campaign.

This time Nigel Farage is being investgated for remarks he made to a rally in Newport when he is alledged to have stated "once Brexit is done, we will take a knife to the pen-pushers in Whitehall'

Could someone please link to the article in the Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 03:35 PM

I'm still waiting for a report of violence, or threat of violence from the remain side. To datev I haven't heard or read of one.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 03:49 PM

Churchill's clumsy idiocy was responsible for depriving me, at Souvla Bay, of what might have been a wonderful great uncle, who might have been showing this little lad how to play footie in the park in Whitefield and taking me to Prestwich carnival to pay for me on the rides and play roll-a-penny with me and tell me stories and sing some of those ould Irish songs. That's what that "great historian" Churchill did for me. And for tens of thousands of others. They even spelled Uncle Jimmy's surname wrong on the memorial in Salford Cathedral.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 05:55 PM

Raggy - there may be some reported vandalism from the remain side in the 'little helpers' link I gave earlier. Maria Caldwell says her car's tyres were damaged with nails and screws. That is possible. On the other hand when I lived near one of the many areas where building work is going on, I went through about three sets of tyres over a two year period due to nails and screws being driven over. So quite possibly vandalism by leave supporters, but not proven without more information.

But ieven so, it is hardly a threat of rape, or violence, or bricks thrown through windows.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Sep 19 - 05:57 PM

Sorry, Maria Caldfield, not Caldwell.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 03:24 AM

Philip Hammond in The Times:

”Boris Johnson asserts, ever more boldly, that we will leave the EU on October 31, “with or without a deal”. But as his sister has reminded us, he is backed by speculators who have bet billions on a hard Brexit — and there is only one outcome that works for them: a crash-out no-deal Brexit that sends the currency tumbling and inflation soaring. So they, at least, will be reassured to see no evidence at all that his government has seriously pursued a deliverable deal; still less that it has been pursuing a deal that could get us out by October 31.”

I wonder if any of our Brexit-supporters here could explain to the rest of us precisely how such a crash-out, no-deal Brexit Would benefit the 64 million or so people in the U.K. who don’t have billions staked on it?

I do have to smile sympathetically, too, when I hear Brexiteers saying they “Just want it done and over on 31/10/19”. Of course, even if we crash out on 31/10/19, it’s wont be ‘done and over’, it won’t be ‘the end’ of Brexit, it will be just the beginning. There’s no such thing as a ‘no-deal Brexit’ - the deals will still have to be done. It’s just that, instead of being done pre-Leaving, when we have a strong negotiating position, they will have to be done post-Leaving, when we will be in a far weaker position.

Never have so many been given it straight up the arse by so few.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 03:34 AM

A former Cabinet Minister and Johnson's sister is now claiming that Brexit financiers backing Johnson are doing so for personal financial gain - this has now been put into the hands of the police
It seems Trump and his UK ventriloquists dummy have other things in common other than their incompetence, threat to decency and democracy and CLOWNISH APPEARANCE
Both are under scrutiny for possible criminal activity AT THE SAME TIME - NOW THAT HAS TO BE SOME SORT OF A RECORD
Out feller is way out in front as far as the number of votes that he has lost

The latest and greatest threat to democracy is the suggestion by Johnson that the British State Judiciary should follow the US pattern and become appointed by the politicians
Fascism in large red letters
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: Iains
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 04:00 AM

Interesting articles in some of the papers today about remainer MPs colluding with foreign powers to frustrate Brexit. Maybe Boris should throw them in the tower while the claims are investigated.

Seems a Prima facie case of treason to me.
Treason:adhering to the sovereign's enemies, giving them aid and comfort, in the realm or elsewhere

They are also in breach of UN law by refusing to honour the outcome of the referendum,
(I did explain at great length how this was so but some kind soul deleted it- The truth must obviously hurt!)

It will be an education to see what guido fawkes makes of it all

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 04:04 AM

I think leaving on october 31without a deal puts the uk in a weak bargaining position with other trading nations.
Winston Churchill was not a successful peace leader he was someone who managed to win a war with the help of some friends, particularly stalin and the usa,and some help from hitler who made the same mistake as napoleon, fighting on two fronts ,he was lucky, hitler was a poorer war leader than him ,that does not make him a good war leader, he was quite good at speeches and had some good speech writers but tactically he made at least one serious miscalculation

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Sep 19 - 04:17 AM

There is some framing going on with talk of 'the surrender bill' beyond the more obvious one in the term 'surrender'. To be clear:

A Bill is not an Act of Parliament. A Bill becomes an Act if it is approved by the House of Commons and the House of Lords, and is formally agreed to by the reigning monarch (known as the Royal Assent). An Act of Parliament is a law, enforced in all areas of the UK where it is applicable. (www.parliament.uk)


The difference is that a bill is a proposed law that has not been passed yet, and a law has been passed as an Act.

So it is no longer 'a bill'. It is an act of Parliament. But calling it 'a bill' is intended to avoid drawing attention to the fact it is now law, and to go against it is to break the law.