BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:14 PM

You have hit on something there, Steve. Burning climate change deniers at the stake could provide a renewable source of energy.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:36 PM

and other public transport provision... Shank's pony not good enough, huh?

I have been lucky to be able to walk to work for maybe 10 of my work years, off and on. But things outside your control can change, as well as personal ambition. It does set you up for the day, and wind you down again.

Meanwhile the Environment Agency are toughening us up with scares stories like this Coastal floods warning in UK as sea levels rise, but it has that inevitability the simple stats should tell you. Changing onset of spring, record temperatures. Who gives a fuck arguing about the causation, the sea level is rising, year on year, and there is no inflection in the curve of the rises. If the sea don't get us, the hot summers will, or some bastard child of COVID-19.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:38 PM

Doug that sounds like smelly air pollution to me

The syncopated
cosmic drumph beat
in the universe
stretches and squeezes
our soul and being.
It takes silence
for deniers to rule.
They are full of stool
And True to tell
they have a smell
Even Light years
away from hell

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:47 PM

Steve there has been a great breakthrough in the manufacture of electric cars. It replaces all the expensive materials including platinum for mere pennies.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 05:11 PM

Mr Red - Plan for future mass public transport starting with consideration for folks
who can't walk..

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:44 PM

You have to tell people that a battery will reliably take them four or five hundred miles, summer and winter, and that you can recharge at tens of thousands of places in five minutes flat, without queueing. If you can't persuade, you'll have to use force. We can't persuade people to turn thermostats down by one degree, or to stop buying things in plastic bottles. We have a job on, don't we?

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 08:03 AM

Wake up to this TED talk - How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change | Allan Savory

Basically he is advocating livestock. Mimicking what nature did for millions of years.

Large herds for safety in numbers (think buffalo style) where they graze , shitting and pissing on the land (aka manuring). And moving on to pastures new (aka not overgrazing). Locking carbon in the soil which allows grass to grow for next season. Agricultural version of rotation farming?

This guy is advocating, out of practical experience, not just his academic prowess. He shows success stories, but he can't do it for the 50% of the deserts of this planet on his own!

Science (aka from nature) can provide solutions, but vegans and veges won't like the answer!

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 08:40 AM

we could set gangs of livestock free - we don't have to eat them. (though i fear this concept would be impossible to understand for our climate change denying capitalist overlords) and if they do their thing effectively they have less chance of being burned en masse. as a (not very consistent) vegetarian it's factory farming that really concerns me.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 01:01 PM

Rotational grazing can restore land overgrazed in the past. Rotate crops and ungulates and do your property some good.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Feb 20 - 05:07 AM

And get ready for when the locusts descend, can we have giant vacuum cleaners sucking in the protein and mincing it into a burger? Make profit from inevitability.

Crazy, but - ya gotta find ways to feed the billions. Mana from heaven with 5 loafs and 2 small fishes ain'ta gonna cut it, PAL!

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 20 - 05:33 AM

The last ungulate I tried to rotate wasn't at all happy about it...

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 03:53 AM

did it spit?

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 05:27 AM

It spat fire and warmed the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 05:37 AM

Just to say, by the way, that your humorous allusion didn't escape me...

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 12:00 PM

It's not that there isn't enough food on the planet, it is that it is unevenly distributed. A lot of it goes to waste in the Western World.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:37 AM

Sir James will say the "hard truth" is that it may be better for some communities to relocate UK EA Head.

What I have been saying that the EA in the UK have known for years. They are also saying we shouldn't build houses in the flood plain (duh?), but anticipate it will happen so say we should build above the water and use the ground floor for the cars that created this situation.

BBC reports what the head of the UK EA will be saying tonight at a water symposium.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 05:06 PM

For about 1o years, Australia's federal government had the Liberal Party in control and that party is very much in denial about the urgent need for taking action to address climate change.

The issue of climate change was one of a number of important and urgent issues which created a change of government in May 2022. The people have spoken and there is now a government with a majority of Labor Party representatives and a significant number of Green Party and independent representatives in power. The majority of these representatives have made a strong commitment to take proactive actions to address climate change and I believe that the Labor Party and the Greens will work well together to start to play catch-up for all of those years of climate change denial, and hopefully make a strong and positive difference.

I have voted for the Greens for decades, and my second choice on the ballot papers has always been the Labor Party. I fully support whatever action is needed to turn this planet around and start making a positive difference.

It won't happen overnight, and I suspect there will arguments in the government about exactly what the targets should be, but we are now heading in the right direction, in my opinion.

Someone once said that making changes like these are like doing a U-turn in a semi-trailer truck. It's not quick and simple. It's a complicated process and it takes time. But decisions and commitments are being made to make that U-turn.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 05:46 PM

But is Oz still selling millions of tons of iron ore to China so that China can make cheap steel with huge carbon emissions at massive cost to the environment? Reminds me of other western countries who claim to be reducing emissions whilst China makes most of their goods...

Too much lying, too much cheating, too much virtue signalling, too much hypocrisy. Donuel is right. We won't put this right.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 07:53 PM

Following the 21 May 2022 federal election, the newly appointed Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, stated that the new Parliament would first meet on 26 July 2022.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 08:09 PM

Australia's lucrative iron ore deal with China was instrumental in making Oz just about the only western nation to avoid the economic meltdown after the 2008 crash. My prediction is that little will change, regardless of who's in power. Self-interest is a powerful motivator.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jul 22 - 08:17 PM

Your predictions are not normally very accurate so let's wait and see.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 06:14 AM

Sometimes picturing an ideal and working backwards to to see how to get there works. This could ultimately mean that business would not be the driver of civilization, particularly nature killing business'. Its a big ask but strategies to get to an ideal will be radical and alien to our way of thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 06:15 AM

Ach, the trade is far too lucrative and Oz depends on it greatly. Maybe if China invades Taiwan and two or three other countries besides, Oz'll be forced to cut the trade with China. Can't see it happening otherwise. Mind you, I hear that China has some issues with it these days, but the temptation to undercut all other steel industries in the world via cheap ore imports must be all but irresistible. And western countries can pretend that they're going all net-zero, whatever the latest con is called, whilst buying cheap steel, toys, clothing and plastic goods from China, all the while tut-tutting at China's burgeoning carbon emissions. Everything I'm standing up in this morning was made in China. My camera, iPhone, the iPad I'm typing this on and the new Swingball Pro I bought yesterday for my grandson, all made in China. We're all in big trouble, aren't we. In spite of all the promises, conferences and target-setting, atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are still rising inexorably year on year. Check the stats.

I wonder whether you can post without making it personal. Just musing. I've seen lots of posts of yours in recent months that I could easily have taken issue with but I've refrained. You could try it it too.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 03:41 PM

Do what you can on a personal level. Who knows - the butterfly effect? (as the hot wind blows all existing butterflies into an abyss that cracks open in the hot pavement)

Guidance would be welcome. There isn't much of it. As long as the banks and lobbyists can get what they want, no one else will really see progress. First thing to help the environment: get the big money out of politics.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 22 - 04:06 PM

Well I agree with that. I spent half an an hour this afternoon at the local recycling, posting cardboard, paper, plastic, glass bottles, waxed cartons and a bit of scrap metal into the multifarious separate skips. I reflected on the people who produce all this packaging junk, who force me to have all manner of storage bins at home, after which I then have to expend extremely expensive petrol to get it to the local recycling, a good few miles away. I'm supposed to wash out all my cans, cartons, bottles and the like (with washing-up detergent and expensive hot water). Then I wonder whether the operatives at the local tip don't just send a lot of it to landfill or incinerators anyway. I get home then read about film stars routinely doing seventeen-minute journeys in private jets, each trip generating more carbon than the average person generates in a year. It all makes me feel like a bit of a mug, frankly. Yeah, we should all do our bit. Then you find out that you almost might as well not bother. As I said, we are failing. I feel incredibly sorry for the next couple of generations.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 05:36 AM

Doesn't your local council collect the majority of your recycling from your home?

I agree that manufacturers could do more to cut down on packaging. They should also aim to produce packaging that can be easily recycled.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 08:33 AM

Yes they will do, but it means waiting for two weeks between collections and lugging all my stuff up to the local farm by car. Last time, my nice clean bags and bottle box got mixed up and I ended up with an insanitary bottle box. Also, we live in a very windy area, and unless you're obsessively careful the stuff blows around everywhere, including the emptied bags. By the time I've loaded it all in my car I might as well keep going to the dump, and I can take my non-recyclable there at the same time. Oh, the joys of rural life, eh? However, Morrisons is on the way home from the dump so I can kill two birds...

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 10:03 AM

Despite how much is taken to recycle bins, a lot of it still goes to the trash. People put the wrong stuff in, they contaminate the stream with food items, etc.

I've resolved to try to buy drinks in only glass or cans; this does mean the boxes they come in will be a lot heavier, but cans and glass are two items that are consistently recycled.

Last year I started buying the paper envelopes with sheets of laundry soap instead of the big heavy plastic containers of laundry detergent. I'm sure it costs more this way, but sometimes that is how it goes. Trouble is, people in low-income situations don't always have the choice, so until more environmentally sound options are available across the board, it isn't going to have a huge affect.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jul 22 - 08:13 PM

The 500 year floods are due to the fact the increased temperature so far will hold 4 times as much water so when it used to rain 2 inchs now it can release 8 or 9 inchs of rain.
This week it happened in Kentucky.

- how do we go from here? We will go by fire and flood.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 03:17 AM

Science has spent thousands of years trying to get it right. Do try to stick with it.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 06:12 AM

"Science has spent thousands of years trying to get it right. Do try to stick with it. "

Even though all Scientific Knowledge has an 80% chance of being proved wrong in twenty years time.

QI fact, of maybe five years ago. So perhaps in fifteen years you might be right.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 06:31 AM

I only said TRYING to get it right, Stanron. And I wouldn't lay much store by stats given out on a quiz show...

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 06:42 AM

> all Scientific Knowledge has an 80% chance of being proved wrong
> in twenty years time

Apologies, but I can't let this go unchallenged. All scientific theories are approximations to what people think is The Truth. Theories aren't usually proven "wrong" so much as "not sufficiently right" in the light of new evidence. The classic case is Newton's laws: they're still accurate enough for NASA to use it as-is to launch rockets, but not *quite* accurate enough for the clocks on Sat-Nav satellites (which require a General-Relativity correction to keep in step with groundside clocks).

Oh, and QI is entertainment, lightly leavened with enlightenment. Go not to the comedians for scientific rigour, for they tell both truth and jest.

.... Again apologies: I'm short on minutes (we're going to Eat Out soon), and writing diplomatically is a slow artform.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Aug 22 - 08:04 AM

Whatever the cause we have problems, imo, it is doubtful politicians will solve it. why travel great diastances to discuss it when it can be discussed on or over the phone zoom
peat harvesting has been banned here in ireland, so what happens peat is imported from germany, so extra fuel usage and travel pollution occurs, better if they had allowed restricted peat harvesting in ireland

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 08:12 AM

Talk about climate extremes, Death Valley floods! https://news.yahoo.com/floods-strand-1-000-californias-125314832.html
The US has its 1st climate change bill this week.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 11:36 AM

The Democrats in the Senate just passed the largest bill that includes $300B to support countering climate change.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 03:03 PM

I now have options with federal rebates on underground heat pumps, vertical wind mills and solar. Remember Iains, he had a water driven turbine for electricity.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 01:00 PM

The destination is obvious, leave the oil in the ground and bite the bullet of limited energy supply as renewables catch up with demand. But the trillion dollars a year that big oil makes is a behemouth that uses its money to control politics and finance. They can pay off every scientist in the world. We can buy time if we sacrifice as India and China catch up and move away from coal, then share the new energy solution that has not yet been invented.

What has been invented is putting enough reflective material in the stratosphere to reflect enough heat and hope to arrive at the proper global thermostat setting. But that diminishes solar collection and undoing the process may prove impossible.

For every tenth degree increase climate extreme events increases by 20%.
Self reliance is our job so
in the meanwhile compost - no fertillizer and no tilling. Keep mycellium alive. Use as little gas as possible. Whether we win or lose we will suffer so suffer as gladly as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 01:51 PM

This year the US has spent 9 Billion dollars on climate related disasters. River flood plains used to be easy to throw up home developments. Houses in the woods are cute except after a 30 year drought.

Looking for a home today has entirely different criterion to consider.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 03:11 PM

WINTER IS COMING   and with it a predicted 1,200 mile storm is destined for California that will dump 16 inches of rain for a month long mega storm. The snow at high altitude will be a record setting first of its kind. This event will make earthquakes look puny.

I am anxious to see how spot on this comptuter model prediction will be.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Aug 22 - 11:06 AM

Dallas got 9 inches overnight. Sounds pornographic.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 07:52 AM

I am reading a 2013 article about the "Little Ice Age", a group of researchers (contentious at the time) reckoned it was caused by massive volcanic blow-outs. So went looking for it. Way bigger than Tambora 1815 which was followed by a year without summer. Karakatoa (West of Java BTW) was a mere muted rumble, albeit heard 6000 miles away. They reckon from the ash deposits centring on Segara Anak crater on Lombok, the 1257 explosion contributed to the long years of cooling.

Now my point here is we could see another such catastrophe (killing millions some way).
Because the earth's crust is like toffee on global scales. It is softening as the planet warms. And anyone who thinks 1.5?C (aka 2.5) ain't relevant, please declare a datum temperature to calculate the percentages. If you can!

Magma can push though more easily. And if it happens at a coastal location water gets in and becomes super-heated and expands suddenly. Boom!

And permanent winter follows. Crops fail. People starve. (did I mention acid ran?) And the Russian people for one ain't gonna support Putin after!

And it won't be the government's fault except at the ballot box!

It won't alter the basic problem of CO₂ build-up, but could buy us time. If anyone is listening!

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 08:16 AM

The post before this one demonstrates a very poor understanding of vulcanism, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 08:22 AM

Steve you have a poor understanding of yourself.

closer than you think

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 09:22 AM

Is that so, now, Mr Magic Mushroom? Well perhaps you could combine with Mr Red to provide us with the evidence that supports this assertion:


"Because the earth's crust is like toffee on global scales. It is softening as the planet warms....Magma can push though more easily."

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 10:35 AM

I suspect we are engaged in an experiment which we do not know the outcome.

As we pump the ground water out to extremes, the crust becomes lighter and drier.
Brown has been the author and whistle blower for 30 years regarding groundwater depletion.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 10:54 AM

Perhaps you should study the water cycle.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 11:06 AM

As for Mister " I'll drink anything, out of sheer politeness."

I am proud to point out society's misconceptions about substances, UAP evidence and other things that need to be examined more closely like additional quantum human sensory abilities, material science and cosmological questions.

I am not a drinker but I see evidence of the damage it has caused other folks. In no way do I believe it makes me superior.

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 11:20 AM

info for everyone but Steve

Subject: RE: BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 03:19 PM

That's all about aquifers being depleted and not allowed to sufficiently replenish. That has nothing to to do with your lazy and throwaway assertion that the crust is getting "lighter and drier," which is just arrant nonsense. As for my drinking anything out of politeness, perhaps you should unstuff those psilocybes from your puffy cheeks so that you too can do tongue-in-cheek.