BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 04:16 PM

You have not asked for ANY citations from those you agree with.

Why should I bother giving them to a person who has stated she will not accept ANY data that she does not apriori agree with?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 04:14 PM

Where are your citations for this?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 04:12 PM

Iains,

You are not taking into account the megatons of gasses such as CO2 released. When I was EO1 Data Manager, we watched the plumes from two eruptions in less than one year that each exceeded the CO2 release by man for the century.

Couldn't POSSIBLY have had an effect on climate change, that is KNOWN to be entirely Man's fault (NOT).

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 04:09 PM

Over hundreds of thousands of years, there HAVE been warm periods and periods of glaciers. Those who cite such an obvious fact as denial of the effect that billions of humans with coal & oil digging & burning and lumbering and burning and mechanized fishing...etc... can have are just wearing blinders to avoid what they don't like to think about.
   "Senator Snowball" of Oklahoma personified that attitude by his stupid confusion of "current weather where he was" to international climate.

It is complicated to prove one way or another that 'it is too late to do anything'............. but I will tell you that ANY progress in cutting back on fossil fuels and stopping the destruction of the world's rain forests and banning many pesticides and altering fishing habits....yes... and slowing population growth WILL be better than what we are doing now. IF we don't make the effort, it WILL one day be too late. I am old enough I will 'probably' not see the inevitable panic, but when Florida is half submerged and Mexico is like Saudi Arabia and penguins can barely find nesting places in Antarctica, I don't want decide how... or whether... to defend my house. My son may need to...

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 04:08 PM

No, the jury it isn't "still out." Only in your opinion. The ash eventually clears the air, the ozone and the CO2 remain, and the http://350.org site will offer you tons of science to prove this.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 04:02 PM

but we all understand that human pollution is as bad or worse than the explosion of a supervolcano for super-charging the atmosphere.

The jury is still out on that statement. You also overlook the importance of timescale.
"If yellowstone erupted (or more accurately when)for volcanologists, the biggest worry is prevaiing wind and ash distribution. A circle about 500 miles (800 kilometers) across surrounding Yellowstone might see more than 4 inches (10 centimeters) of ash on the ground, scientists reported( Aug. 27, 2014, in the journal Geochemistry, Geophysics, Geosystems.)

The ash would be pretty devastating for the United States, scientists predict. The fallout would include short-term destruction of Midwest agriculture, and rivers and streams would be clogged .
People living in the Pacific Northwest might also be choking on Yellowstone's fallout.

"People who live upwind from eruptions need to be concerned about the big ones," said Larry Mastin, a USGS volcanologist and lead author of the 2014 ash study. Big eruptions often spawn giant umbrella clouds that push ash upwind across half the continent, Mastin said. These clouds get their name because the broad, flat cloud hovering over the volcano resembles an umbrella. "An umbrella cloud fundamentally changes how ash is distributed," Mastin said."
Yellowstone Volcano's next supereruption is likely to emit vast quantities of gases such as sulfur dioxide, which forms a sulfur aerosol that absorbs sunlight and reflects some of it back to space. The resulting climate cooling could last up to a decade. The temporary climate shift could alter rainfall patterns, and, along with severe frosts, cause widespread crop losses and famine.
These events outlined, although largely conjectural, would have an immediate undeniable impact. The only real question is the extent of the ash, the duration and extent of the impact on climate, That these events would occur is inevitable, the uncertainty is the severity.
Just as well the Snowdonia supervolcano in Wales is extinct.
Krakatoa was a smaller event yet killed up to 130000 people and Average global temperatures fell by as much as 1.2 °C (2.2 °F) in the year following the eruption. Weather patterns continued to be chaotic for years and temperatures did not return to normal until 1888.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 04:02 PM

"Over a period of many decades, several thousand papers were published establishing the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) from about 900 A.D. to 1300 A.D. and the Little Ice Age (LIA) from about 1300 A.D. to 1915 A.D. as global climate changes."

So obviously we are NOW entering a period of warming, REGARDLESS of Man.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 01:40 PM

https://heated.world/p/bird-man-cries-wolf

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 01:30 PM

Stop the name calling. We assume, when that's all you have left to deploy, is that you have nothing.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 01:24 PM

Why are you even discussing Dr. Mann? There's way more going on in that tempestuous teapot than you can use here to suggest climate change doesn't really exist. In his own field Mann has been largely discredited (though the AAAS seems to like his outreach attempts); he's right up there with the British doctor who suggested (with no evidence) that vaccines cause autism. He has a tight reign on his own publicity and clearly monitors the Wikipedia page about himself. He seems to be protecting his brand, he isn't contributing to science.

Now try looking at the 97% of scientists who acknowledge that climate change has sped up due to human activity.

Easterbrook:
Oxygen isotope studies in Greenland, Ireland, Germany, Switzerland, Tibet, China, New Zealand, and elsewhere, plus tree-ring data from many sites around the world all confirm the presence of a global Medieval Warm Period.

The Hockey Stick Trick
Over a period of many decades, several thousand papers were published establishing the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) from about 900 A.D. to 1300 A.D. and the Little Ice Age (LIA) from about 1300 A.D. to 1915 A.D. as global climate changes. Thus, it came as quite a surprise when Mann et al. (1998) (Fig. 28) concluded that neither the MWP nor the Little Ice Age actually happened on the basis of a tree-ring study and that became the official position of the 2001 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Mann appears to have tried for a paradigm shift, but it backfired and scientists resumed doing real science and paid attention to studies that show actual facts.

The contrived elimination of the MWP and Little Ice Age by Mann et al. became known as “the hockey stick” of climate change where the handle of the hockey stick was supposed to represent constant climate until increasing CO2 levels caused global warming, the sharp bend in the lower hockey stick.

The Mann et al. “hockey stick” temperature curve was at so at odds with thousands of published papers, including the Greenland GRIP ice core isotope data, sea surface temperatures in the Sargasso Sea sediments (Fig. 29) (Keigwin, 1996), paleo-temperature data other than tree rings (Fig. 30) (Loehle, 2007), and sea surface temperatures near Iceland (Fig. 31) (Sicre et al., 2008) one can only wonder how a single tree-ring study could purport to prevail over such a huge amount of data. At best, if the tree-ring study did not accord with so much other data, it should simply mean that the tree rings were not sensitive to climate change, not that all the other data were wrong. McIntyre and McKitrick (2003, 2005) evaluated the data in the Mann paper and concluded that the Mann curve was invalid “due to collation errors, unjustifiable truncation or extrapolation of source data, obsolete data, geographical location errors, incorrect calculation of principal components and other quality control defects”. Thus, the “hockey stick” concept of global climate change is now widely considered totally invalid and an embarrassment to the IPCC.

Why, then, did Mann's hockey stick persuade so many non-scientists and gain such widespread circulation? The answer is apparent in revelations from e-mails disclosed in the Climategate scandal (Mosher and Fuller, 2010; Montford, 2010). These e-mails describe how they tried to “hide the decline” in temperatures, using various “tricks” in order to perpetuate a dogmatic view of anthropogenic global warming.

With this kind of friend, Mann or Easterbrook, climate scientists don't need enemies. Scientists didn't need to deny previous cool spells in order for climate change to be accepted as real. We understand that there are lots of factors that have warmed and cooled the planet over billions of years, but we all understand that human pollution is as bad or worse than the explosion of a supervolcano for super-charging the atmosphere.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 01:17 PM

The ONLY method that mankind presently has to CHANGE the present climate trend is a good, old fashioned nuclear winter- and that takes care of the excess population as well.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 01:00 PM

The protesters are well meaning idiots.

IF climate change is controlled my our actions ( a very debatable point, but no-one listens to facts here - re analysis of climate models presently being used, solar variability and historical trends)) it would make a LOT more sense to try and SAVE the people threatened by said change than to try and stop it- IT HAS ALREADY passed beyond simple correction by ANY amount of CO2 reduction. ( see methane release from polar regions et al)

But it is MUCH easier for Politicians to just say "Do what I tell you and everything will be ok" than to actually move people away from regions impacted by sea level rise or climate shift, and redistribute food production instead of money ( that just flows into the said politician's pockets) All that land that WAS tundra could now be breadbasket- but that would take an effort that no-one wants to make. Far better to get rid of all private transportation, and let the government decide where ( we get to go ( and who can go there.)

The idea that ANY beef production ( or dairy) can be sustained ( given the methane produced ) while calling for the draconian CO2 reductions ( and THEIR impact on the environment AND human lives) is a fantasy.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 12:04 PM

Donuel you may well be correct but I do not believe the science is as settled as the media would have you believe.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/medieval-warm-period
I am more than a little sceptical. Politics is driving the science and funding the results.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 11:05 AM

Where are we now and what are 'we' doing?
We are only in the global agitation phase.
For example since 6AM today DC has demonstrations to block major pinch points of traffic with thier bodies. Making inconveiniences for commuters having to sit in their gasoline cars at rush hour is a pithy response at this late date.

Population will be the last thing we ever address seriously.

On the bright side the bastards like the climate denying Kochs are dying in front of us. However the climatastrophe of the melting tundra and the great methane release of the Cheney fracking scheme makes the advance of climate change a hundred times faster.

Some countries like Germany are taking extraordinary but tiny steps compared to what the US, Russia and China could do.

Coinciding with this agitation phase, is the pioneering efforts of renewable energy, but that takes a great deal of time we do not have.

Every year these last 5 years has exceeded the prior years in high temperatures. If a future energy source technology arrives it better do so immediately.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 08:56 AM

So I assume both Carrol and stilly river sage deny the findings if the New Brunswick court. How laughable!

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 08:39 AM

More Limbaugh-dancing here
Racism, Christian fundamentalism, trumpism, supporter of extending the criminalising of drug use, Capital punishment, removal of need for sexual consent, opposes homosexual equality, feminism......

His views on the Environment
"Environmental issues
Limbaugh is critical of environmentalism and climate science.[87] He has disputed claims of anthropogenic global warming, and the relationship between CFCs and depletion of the ozone layer, saying the scientific evidence does not support them.[81] Limbaugh has argued against the scientific consensus on climate change saying it is "just a bunch of scientists organized around a political proposition."[88] He has also argued that projections of climate change are the product of ideologically-motivated computer simulations without the proper support of empirical data, a claim which has been widely debunked.[89][90] Limbaugh has used the term "environmentalist wacko" when referring to left-leaning environmental advocates.[91] As a rhetorical device, he has also used the term to refer to more mainstream climate scientists and other environmental scientists and advocates with whom he disagrees.[92] Limbaugh opposed pollution credits, including a carbon cap-and-trade system, as a way to disproportionately benefit major American investment banks, particularly Goldman Sachs, and claimed that it would destroy the American national economy.[93]
Limbaugh has written that "there are more acres of forestland in America today than when Columbus discovered the continent [sic] in 1492," a claim that is disputed by the United States Forest Service and the American Forestry Association, which state that the precolonial forests have been reduced by about 24 percent or nearly 300 million acres.[94][95]
Limbaugh strongly opposed the proposed Green New Deal and its sponsor Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.[96]"

Just the place to look for tolerance and humanity
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 08:19 AM

Rush Limbaugh
New one on me so I looked him up
"Limbaugh frequently criticizes what he regards as liberal policies and politicians, as well as what he perceives as a pervasive liberal bias in major U.S. media. Limbaugh is among the highest-paid people in U.S. media, signing a contract in 2008 for $400 million through 2016.[5] In 2017, Forbes listed his earnings at $84 million for the previous 12 months, and ranked him the 11th highest-earning celebrity in the world.[6] His most recent contract, signed on July 31, 2016, will take his radio program to 2020, its 32nd year."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 08:05 AM

This says it all about that link above. From Wikipedia:

Steyn has been published by magazines and newspapers around the world, and is a regular guest host of the nationally syndicated Rush Limbaugh Show. He also guest hosts Tucker Carlson Tonight on Fox News, on which he regularly appears as a guest.

In other words, facts don't matter, the politics and the spin do. You're judged by the company you keep.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 06:51 AM

https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/19/15/2019BCSC1580.htm

Terrible things facts! attackthe messenger all you want, the message cannot be refuted. You just make yourself seem silly.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 05:29 AM

Shit
Canada has got it's own Guido - bet he supports 'Blood and Honour'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 04:07 AM

Of course much has been made of the hocky stick graphs in the perambulations of climate science and Dr Mann is very protective of his graph and jumps into court to protect it. Hence the recent case below is rather important. Essentially Dr Mann had 8 years to submit his data to the court to substantiate his case. He refused and his case was dismissed.
Unfortunate things facts.

https://www.steynonline.com/9742/michael-e-mann-loser
All carefully ignored by the mainstream media! Too many taxes and cosy sinecures rely on the stick being inviolate.

It does need to be pointed out that this is the same branch of science that had some predict global cooling and a new ice age in the 70's, although it must be said that this was largely a minority view hyped up by the media

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 03:08 AM

Echoed loudly Steve
It seems the dinosaurism extends beyond yaking care of our planet to misogyny and eugenics
Mankind has survived as long as it has because it constantly sought to understood and adapted to its natural environment - that ability seems to be as lost as all the other skills that have been temporarily replaced by so-called advance
I see little point in discussing with someone who can't tell the difference between effects of producing children out of necessity for survival and the neglect and deliberate destruction of our most essential natural assets because it is 'profitable' to do so or not 'economically beneficial' to maintain them   
The thought that some people might lose the use of their SuVs seems to fill people with uncontrollable dread, yet the production of cheap oil to run them has caused more ecological damage than a whole history of floods and forest fires, as well as destabilising our existence with permanent wars and mass migration
Greta Thunberg is, as yet, an unknown figure, yet in a few months she has managed to put our generation to shame and forced (some of) us to think of what damage we are doing to our fellow man
I don't know what she's on but a lot more people need to try it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 19 - 09:24 PM

Dear me.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Sep 19 - 07:54 PM

Because females are the narrow part of the flow chart. You know the old joke: You can't get a baby in 9 months by putting 9 men on the job?

Sci-fi authors for many years have based 'moving humans to a new star' by assuming that a colony ship would need X times more women than men.

If anyone ever took the idea seriously... sure.. do something with men also, but hormonal contraceptives are already worked out for women.

... and I don't pretend that *I* have the only possible solution... just that all the others I can think of are pretty extreme.. Soylent Green, anyone?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 19 - 04:44 PM

Why girls?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Sep 19 - 12:25 PM

"i've always thought the problem isn't so much population as politics. not children but greed."

Levels of causality....
If we were all suddenly altruistic and reasonable, it is not clear that the situation would improve. Earth will not support 79 trillion people, no matter how nice and sharing they are and no matter whether politicians begin to look beyond their own re-election.

We artificially control deer populations and thin herds of cattle, but the very concept of mandatory birth control on ourselves seems to trigger all sorts of rationalizations. "But the bible says be fruitful and multiply" "I need children to help with the farm" and the simple one.. "I forgot to use..."

Just imagine if a proposal were made to implant timed-release contraceptives in 1/3 of all girls at at puberty....

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Sep 19 - 06:15 AM

NOT BEFORE TIME
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 07:48 AM

Gillymor :-D *BG*

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 07:24 AM

Take courage from and have compassion for these children, get out in the streets with them, live as green as you can, support candidates that are green and actually have a chance at getting elected, get rid of Trump the deregulator who would take us back to the '50's in terms of environmental awareness and ignore the programmed zombies of the status quo like Guido Jr. and Pete.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 06:04 AM

Well, SRS, you illustrate well the point that good-hearted individuals may have made small mitigations, and that we haven't all been willingly signed up to the depredations that the ruthless and self-interested big guns have visited on the environment, but the looming disaster has come about on our watch whether we like it or not. Plenty - by no means all - of those Woodstock-era hippies rapidly turned into the ruthless capitalists that in large part have got us to where we are, that is, in a horrid pickle with no clue as to how we get out of it. We can hope - and help to avoid it - that the recoil of the children doesn't end with the history of the last 50 years repeating itself.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 05:53 AM

"They made a difference"
Didn't they just - they may not have got everything but at least they gacve us the pleasure of seeing the Saigion embassy staff scrambling into the helicopters on the roof
Almost as pleasurable as seeing Mad Maggie being driven away in tears when her favourite toys were taken from her
I was in the front line next to Peggy Seeger in Grosvenor Square that glorious day - her enthusiasm scared me shitless

I never understand why the most hate-filled dinosaurist bile so often comes with a religious quote (or maybe I don't)
I seem to remember that Pete kicks with that foot
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 05:33 AM

Hey - I remember the demonstrations in Grosvenor Square about Vietnam. And the US had plenty more. They made a difference. They told the politicians something you can't put on a ballot paper.

A single issue in a highly complex world. A pointed message.

And there were a lot of young people in Grosvenor Square.

True the young have more to gain/loose from climate change/mitigation/reversal. But if they are anything like us, they will prove "good" (actually better IMNSHO).

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 03:02 AM

I go along with Steve - the potential potential for our kids to make the world a better place kids is unbelievably is unbelievable but it's being sold out in every way
Technology should be a massive stepping stone to a better world - instead it's being used to turn them into zombies
Ihe were stopping in a Gaway hotel a couple of weeks ago and were horrified to see a toddler who could only just walk sitting on the floor and playing games on a mobile phone - a few yards away her parents were doing the same - sick !
I got interested in folk song at the beginning of the swinging sixties - in Liverpool
The machine got hold of our music for a time and turned it into sellable pap - unfortunately 'Bobbie' allowed himself to become part of that
The bad company I fell in with became part of the Aldermaston marches, and later the Anti-Apartheid and Anti Vietnam movements, but there were few of us and we were regarded as freaks
I became a refugee and escaped to Manchester because my home town had become 'Beatles-infested' - it even drove some of the best jazz in Britain out of The Cavern
When Pat and I started working with Travellers we were looked on with suspicion at first, but eventually managed to show we were genuinely interested in their culture
At first they asked us "are you the wobs? (police) - "No" "Are you social workers?" "No"
Then they called us "The Students", associating us with the groups of young people who used to give up their spare time helping them fight prejudice and push for better conditions
Woodstock was fine (until Altamont turned it into a nightmare) as long as you could take it and leave it to get on with real life
These climate climate kids made me remember the time when enough young people were aware enough of the bad things happening in the world to want to do something about it
I hope they don't get patronised and marginalised by the politcians

I regard one hate-filled comment made not a hundred miles from here little more than child abuse, I'm afraid - let's hope it isn't shared by too many
These young people are doing something our generation should never have made necessary - they deserve both our respect and our gratitude - and a deep apology from all of us
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 10:46 PM

Steve, don't sell our generation short (I'm 65, my ex is 72). Some of our cohort may be part of the problem but we raised children in a way to recognize that they are part of the solution. The "Greatest Generation" gave rise to the Baby Boomers, and this Boomer was in her 30s when she had children (though her children have friends whose grandparents are my age). I'd had a lot of time to think about our place in the world, about environmental issues (the first Earth Day happened when I was in high school - perhaps more significant to the environment that Woodstock? Woodstock had more baggage about ending the Vietnam war.)

I grew up with the Population Bomb and Fahrenheit 451 and Silent Spring and any number of other excellent examinations of mid-twentieth century life and impact on the world. My bi-racial children were raised in a multi-cultural environment and have good educations but it wasn't handed to them - one, though hard work in high school, won a full scholarship to a Tier 1 university and the other, just as smart but not great at math or she'd have had the same scholarship, worked her way through. Their father helped with rent for one and tuition for the other, but the rest was up to them. They are in a position to earn more than their parents, but we guided them through their early years to see the advantages of finishing their educations (and advanced degrees—graduating debt free). It took a village to raise my children and their classmates, but I think they are fully cognizant of the world before them and that we all have to work on a solution. It doesn't help that there is a blip in this, the asshole in the White House determined to support big business by undoing every environmental law and standard he can get his hands on. We all know what is going on, and once he's out, will have to work to solidify regulations so another asshole can't undo them (and to clarify that a president who breaks the law can be indicted in office).

/rant off/

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 06:00 PM

The young people who have turned out today are amazing. Greta is, to me, a hero. I watched a recording this evening of Billy Connolly's last tour of America. He was there on the Woodstock site with three "veterans" of Woodstock. He mused that Woodstock had changed the world. Well I love Billy and admire his uncanny ability to celebrate the small things. But Woodstock changed nothing. The Woodstock generation, which includes me (I was 18), have screwed this world up big-time, in all manner of ways including climate change. I look at those kids on the telly tonight and I cheerfully suspend my usual cynical view that it's unwise to work with children and animals. The children are bloody brilliant, and I am ashamed.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 05:39 PM

There is no alleged about it, Pete. It is a man made problem. And yes, I would forego any amount of convenience or pay any extra taxes to ensure the planet's future for our children and grandchildren.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 05:39 PM

Clearly you're not interested, Pete, so why bother to remark, just to cast shade on the discussion? These young people want to lead a life that makes the planet is a healthier place for all. And yes, it will mean a shift in spending, and there is nothing "alleged" about it. Humans have pushed the CO₂ level in the atmosphere to such an extent that things are changing rapidly for all of us.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 03:25 PM

That's a lot of kids and adults up for saving the planet . I suppose they are all living a green life , and willing to forego all the conveniences that consume the dwindling energy supply . I'm sure too that they will be happy to pay higher taxes that may be entailed in the enactment of measures to combat the alleged man made problem                                 Or maybe not .........

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 01:28 PM

Proud to say that one of my daughters, who works for an art supplies company, is running a pop up shop in their store tomorrow to show how to be more environmentally friendly when creating art works. It was her idea. She had to convince management it was worthwhile and they have now taken it on board big time.

Every little helps as they say:-)

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 12:10 PM

Thanks Stilly
That's a very impressive organisation
Makes you ashamed to have left it in the hands of youngsters, though you don't have to look far to see why
I was amused to see from television reports that the crowds in Dublin jammed up Merrion Square so much today that it must have been near impossible to get into 'The Irish Traditional Music Archive', but I'm sure the people there were as chuffed to see them there as much as I was
Jim

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 10:39 AM

For boots on the ground you can join 350.org and participate in a climate strike.

https://globalclimatestrike.net/?source=350org It looks like the closest one for some of you is at:

County Square, Ulverston. County Square Ulverston England United Kingdom LA12 7LA

Or you can hop over to the continent and go to one in France, Germany, or Spain. Heck, there's even one out in the middle of the Atlantic on Santa Maria and one in the far north on Iceland.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 10:27 AM

Britain produces widgets 1/13 of the value of China. Power generation is China, to produce said widgets is very dirty compared to Europe.
The protestors should try their luck in Tiananmen Square. I am sure the Chinese would be delighted to demonstrate how to disperse ecoloons.
The ecobrat has a lot to answer for.
They may bring a lump to your throat,but the majority undoubtedly regard then as a pain in the arse.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Sep 19 - 08:10 AM

LARGEST CLIMATE CHANGE PROTEST IN HISTORY
Brings a lump to the throat
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 03:49 AM

Population is the biggest threat. If you spread the wealth evenly around the world, we in the west would be poorer (howdyalikethat?) and and the starving millions in 3rd and 2.5 world countries would be able to consume more. Net result, more pollution.

As I keep saying "we won't like the consequences". see above.

Reduce the population and you reduce the pollution. Not a solution that is ever going to work without starvation, pestilence or war. And they are all hovering like the sword of Damocles. As I said "we won't like.............."

Or we could limit families to one child for a while and end up with criminality like India, or a preponderance of bachelors (and prostitutes) like China. As I said "we won't like.............."

Science and technology will sort it all out. As I said "we won't like.............."

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 10:52 AM

Then read them and follow-up: use them as sources you actually cite.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:25 AM

If you are trying to lecture me I can assure you it is a wasted effort.
I prefer to be educated by recognised experts.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 08:28 PM

Yes. The screen must have been open for a while so I didn't see yours.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 08:19 PM

upstairs on the right...

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 08:09 PM

I assume that's a response not to me but to the post before mine.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 19 - 07:12 PM

You don't have an understanding of how the term has shifted in philosophical terms over the years. Marxism is a perfectly acceptable approach to many discussions and solutions to problems. I'm not accepting your short and limited definitions of anything, but I'm also not getting into an argument with you because your sources are too unreliable.