BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England

Subject: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 01:48 PM

Said pub, known aptly as the Red Dragon at the time, was Marx's local when he was defining the concept of communism. He also used to meet his pal Engels there and I like to think that they used to put the world to right over a pint or two :-)

Sadly, although a grade 2 listed building it now seems to be under threat. Its location, on the main A6 into Manchester and its proximity to Salford University and a host of new developments would seem to make it an ideal place for a bustling pub but, alas, it seems not. It was in the CAMRA good beer guide for over 20 years and it oozes character. Albeit faced grandeur now. I have many fond memories of it, including listening to a music session involving musicians from all over the world after a cultural event, welcoming new immigrants to Salford, at Peel Hall, across the road. The event was a bit formal and stuffy. The session was wild :-)

Latest talk is of demolishing it to make way for a Chinese cultural centre :-( I have nothing against the Chinese I hasten to add! Would it not be better though if Salford's Labour council would step in and make sure this historic and cultural landmark was saved? Or do they, as is my impression, not really want to be reminded of the working class and left-wing heritage they should be proud of?

Dirty Old Town? I suspect Ewan is turning in his grave.

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 02:11 PM

I'm sure Ewan wouldn't have had too many problems with the idea of making room for a Chinese Cultural Centre
He was a great admirer of The progress that country had made, from regressive feudal to an advanced contender on the world stage

I was lucky enough to get to see The Young Karl Marx early this year - one of the most intelligent and moving films I have ever seen
Unfortunately they missed the bit about Marx and Engles getting pissed and breaking the street lamps
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 02:21 PM

Was breaking street lights a bit of a gas at the time? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 02:41 PM

I don't think anybody ever shone any light on the matter , which still leaves mot people in the dark Dave :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:01 PM

I think we are going up the pole with this one, Jim. Maybe it's time we snuffed it out before it puts the original topic in the shade.

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:08 PM

Best left in the shadows I think
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:20 PM

Chinese cultural centres belong in China (where I am briefly visiting again in a couple of months, after first enjoying China and its fine culture in 1988), and English pubs belong in England - it's our world/our UN that should be multicultural.

My poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, on "China and India in 1988"

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:37 PM

I believe it is a Chinese company that has bought the building. I wonder if they realise the significance to communism? I may try writing to them. Not that I expect it would do much good but it would be a start. Anyone know how I would go about finding who now owns it?

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Sep 19 - 03:43 PM

China needs a socialist revolution to get rid of the Chinese Capitalist Party, and it is highly likely that those who have bought the building are capitalising/not here for the sunshine or our culture and traditions.

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 03:42 AM

"Anyone know how I would go about finding who now owns it?"
It has to be registered somewhere - myb the Salford Working Class Library can help - I know very little about what they're doing nowadays
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 04:46 AM

Good idea, Jim. The Working Class Movement Library is on The Crescent, a couple of hundred yards down from the pub. Maybe they should have the building instead of the one they are in. A match made in heaven surely:-) I reckon it would attract a lot more custom, particularly students, if they sold real ale as well!

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 05:17 AM

Dave the Gnome asked "Anyone know how I would go about finding who now owns it?"

You will have to pay but you can find out the information here:

Search for property information from HM Land Registry

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 08:04 AM

Thanks Rain Dog. Much appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 09:00 AM

Dave
By coincidence, I've just found a pamphlet in my garage entitled, Fredrick Engels in Manchester by someone I know to be a reliable researcher, an old Marxist friend, Mick Jenkins
I intend to digitise it when I have time; when I do, I see little point in my keeping it
I'm sure the WC Library already have a copy but if you should know of anybody who might like it, feel free to let me know
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 12:55 PM

Will do. Thanks Jim. My daughter in law or her Mum may be interested.

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Sep 19 - 01:08 PM

THe're welcome to it Dave
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 05:44 AM

The irony of a communists' icon being removed to celebrate the culture of a communist regime is somehow humorous.

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 07:55 AM

I found it so too, Mr Red. :-)

From what I can gather it is just at proposal stage. The company would need to app!y for planning permission but, sadly, Salford council are not sympathetic towards the history of the city. I think with it being a listed building other bodies need to be involved. However there have been a number of instances in Salford where listed buildings on sites scheduled for redevelopment have mysteriously burst into flames.

I never saw the job advert for council arsonist though...

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 12:00 PM

If all fails and a Chinee Cultural centre is established, you could do worse than go along there and take advantage of the nosh, as long as it's real Chinese ford and not the ersatz pap that's dished up in most of Britain's 'Chinese' restaurants
I still remember with pleasure when The Critics Group were invited to a buffet meal at the Chinese Legation in London - the dozens of different dishes from the carousel buffet were to die for - and the maotai was streets ahead of any poitín I've ever tasted
Every cloud Dave :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 12:35 PM

"the WC Library"...???

Does it cost a penny to use their study cubicles...?????

Subject: RE: BS: The Crescent Pub. Salford. England
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Sep 19 - 01:14 PM

Yes, but you come out flushed with success
Jim