Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK

ChanteyLass 06 Oct 19 - 08:43 PM
ChanteyLass 06 Oct 19 - 08:48 PM
robomatic 06 Oct 19 - 09:38 PM
Dave Hanson 07 Oct 19 - 02:43 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Oct 19 - 03:02 AM
Iains 07 Oct 19 - 07:02 AM
Mrrzy 07 Oct 19 - 09:44 AM
Iains 07 Oct 19 - 09:48 AM
Mrrzy 07 Oct 19 - 12:32 PM
Iains 07 Oct 19 - 02:02 PM
Mrrzy 07 Oct 19 - 02:41 PM
Mossback 07 Oct 19 - 06:59 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Oct 19 - 02:59 AM
Iains 08 Oct 19 - 04:31 AM
G-Force 08 Oct 19 - 05:00 AM
gillymor 08 Oct 19 - 08:50 AM
Dave Hanson 08 Oct 19 - 10:32 AM
Howard Jones 09 Oct 19 - 04:06 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Oct 19 - 04:34 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Oct 19 - 04:52 AM
Iains 09 Oct 19 - 06:29 AM
Big Al Whittle 09 Oct 19 - 06:43 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Oct 19 - 07:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Oct 19 - 07:57 AM
Charmion 09 Oct 19 - 09:22 AM
Mossback 09 Oct 19 - 03:06 PM
Mrrzy 09 Oct 19 - 05:49 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Oct 19 - 07:18 PM
Mrrzy 09 Oct 19 - 09:41 PM
Backwoodsman 10 Oct 19 - 02:47 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Oct 19 - 04:32 AM
Iains 10 Oct 19 - 04:37 AM
Rob Naylor 10 Oct 19 - 06:06 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Oct 19 - 06:33 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Oct 19 - 06:43 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Oct 19 - 06:44 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Oct 19 - 06:50 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Oct 19 - 06:52 AM
Iains 10 Oct 19 - 06:53 AM
gillymor 10 Oct 19 - 07:02 AM
Mossback 10 Oct 19 - 09:17 AM
Rob Naylor 10 Oct 19 - 09:38 AM
gillymor 10 Oct 19 - 10:36 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Oct 19 - 11:00 AM
Mrrzy 10 Oct 19 - 11:32 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Oct 19 - 01:49 AM
Iains 11 Oct 19 - 11:02 AM
Mrrzy 11 Oct 19 - 11:43 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Oct 19 - 01:23 PM
Iains 11 Oct 19 - 03:21 PM
Iains 11 Oct 19 - 03:35 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Oct 19 - 03:36 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Oct 19 - 03:45 PM
Gurney 12 Oct 19 - 01:09 AM
Iains 12 Oct 19 - 03:43 AM
Monique 12 Oct 19 - 04:05 AM
Dave Hanson 12 Oct 19 - 08:29 AM
Dave Hanson 12 Oct 19 - 08:34 AM
Mrrzy 12 Oct 19 - 11:12 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Oct 19 - 12:20 PM
Mrrzy 13 Oct 19 - 10:01 AM
Mrrzy 13 Oct 19 - 10:17 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Oct 19 - 01:20 PM
Mr Red 14 Oct 19 - 04:04 AM
Mrrzy 14 Oct 19 - 10:37 AM
Backwoodsman 14 Oct 19 - 11:30 AM
Mrrzy 14 Oct 19 - 04:55 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Oct 19 - 06:12 PM
Mrrzy 15 Oct 19 - 03:48 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Oct 19 - 03:54 AM
Mrrzy 15 Oct 19 - 05:16 AM
Iains 15 Oct 19 - 05:53 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Oct 19 - 06:08 AM
Mrrzy 16 Oct 19 - 01:25 PM
Mossback 16 Oct 19 - 02:17 PM
gillymor 17 Oct 19 - 06:03 AM
Iains 17 Oct 19 - 06:55 AM
Rain Dog 17 Oct 19 - 07:28 AM
Donuel 17 Oct 19 - 07:31 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Oct 19 - 07:55 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Oct 19 - 07:56 AM
Donuel 17 Oct 19 - 09:14 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Oct 19 - 09:27 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 08:43 PM

I'm so very sorry.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/06/harry-dunn-death-parents-trapped-nightmare-amid-growing-calls/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 08:48 PM

I don't know where the rest of my thread title went, and I had trouble making a working link, but at least that seems okay.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 09:38 PM

The Diplomat's wife should do the right thing. Return to the U.K. and go through the legal process.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 02:43 AM

Not a chance of this coward returning to the UK. We've seen it all before. And the US Government will simply compound this by doing nothing.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 03:02 AM

"And the US Government will simply compound this by doing nothing."
Trump is quite likely to demand that any future trade deals depend on Britain desisting from perscuting this poor, innocent American citizen with 'Fake News'
Don't kid yourselves - this is the shape of things to come
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: Iains
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 07:02 AM

The diplomatic immunity claimed by 42 year old Anne Sacoolas is as a result of an agreement put in place in 1994. The special deal was put in place between the UK and the US which gives diplomats and their families based at RAF Croughton diplomatic immunity.Usually, diplomatic immunity only covers those diplomats and their dependants based in London.
Sky News reported that the alleged driver was advised to leave the UK by the American Embassy.
An attempt by Northamptonshire Police to stop her leaving was declined, and the US Embassy has confirmed she's no longer in the UK.

This evading justice by claiming diplomatic immunity is totally wrong when their actions have caused a death. It is not fair on the victim, the parents, or other UK citizens that may be killed ot maimed in the future.
Justice must be seen to be done and hiding behind a veil of immunity is not right. At the very least she should be banned from ever returning to the EU if she will not face justice.
Causing death by dangerous driving can can result in 14 years imprisonment.
This is a weasel action that will be remembered if justice is not seen to be done.
Would the reaction of the US be the same if the boot was on the other foot?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 09:44 AM

People in the US claim diplomatic immunity for all kinds of crimes, and get it. People everywhere claim diplomatic immunity and get it. None of that should be happening- but that's the way it is.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: Iains
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 09:48 AM

I think all extradition proceedings against Julian Assange should be halted until this matter is resolved in an English Court


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 12:32 PM

Assange doesn't have diplomatic immunity, does he? And the driver can't *be* tried, that's the point.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: Iains
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 02:02 PM

Other countries have withdrawn diplomatic immunity in similar circumstances. Immunity was not designed to let this kind of lawbreaking go unsanctioned. No one has said Assange has immunity,the US wishes to incarcerate him for whistle blowing.
Interestingly Under the Vienna Convention, diplomatic immunity does not apply to civil actions relating to vehicular accidents,if not being used for diplomatic purposes.
That would leave her wide open to trial in an American court.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic I
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 02:41 PM

And people have waived immunity, as when such a driver would be worse tortured at hime, maybe stoned for driving while female...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mossback
Date: 07 Oct 19 - 06:59 PM

Hey, Amerkuns is exempt- twas always thus.

HEIL TRUMP!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 02:59 AM

It never fails to amuse me how outrageous behaviour such as this are immediately watered down by a sudden attack of 'whataboutism'
THere are many incidents of the misuse of diplomatic immunity - we have yet to here any steps being taken to right the wrongs of the Salisbury attempted assassinations
But that doesn't mean we have to sort all of these out before we can discuss individual cases - or does it ?
I suspect that the most sinister aspect of cases like this is, given Donald the Div's approach to international diplomacy, incidents like this will become bargaining chips in future trade negotiations come Brexit - as will the buying and selling of offshore islands
Our leaders are really going to brush up on their Dancing to Donald's Tune skills
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 04:31 AM

Boris Johnson:
"I must answer you directly, I do not think that it can be right to use the process of diplomatic immunity for this type of purpose.

"And I hope that Anne Sacoolas will come back and will engage properly with the processes of law as they are carried out in this country.

"That's a point that we've raised or are raising today with the American ambassador here in the UK and I hope it will be resolved very shortly.

"And to anticipate a question you might want to raise, if we can't resolve it then of course I will be raising it myself personally with the White House."


I suspect this issue is not going away


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: G-Force
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 05:00 AM

It may be a big story here in the UK, but is it being covered in the US? What do people over there think?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 08:50 AM

It is getting coverage on the national news here in the U.S. I can't speak for anyone else but I found it outrageous, how can she live with herself.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 10:32 AM

Cos she's an absolute cunt, end of.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Howard Jones
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 04:06 AM

Diplomatic immunity is an essential protection for diplomats worldwide. If it means that legitimate charges cannot be pursued, sometimes that is a price which has to be paid. However situations like this bring the system into disrepute. Countries can and do waive immunity, and this would seem to be an appropriate situation to do so.

Of course the honourable thing to do would have been for her not to have claimed immunity in the first place.

What especially riles us here is that the US is quick to demand extradition of UK citizens for alleged breaches of US law while refusing to yield up its own citizens. Not quite the same situation, but a close enough parallel.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 04:34 AM

As I understand it, her husband is not actually a registered diplomat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 04:52 AM

I strongly suspect that, like the case of Nazanin Zaghawi Ratcliff, this is very much on the back burner while our serial-liar, serial-adulterer, pole-dancer-shagger, incompetent scumbag of a PM is completely consumed by engineering a no-deal crash-out BrexShit.

Preserving his bosses’ tax-dodging opportunities comes far higher up his list of priorities than looking after the well-being of British citizens.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 06:29 AM

Backwoodsman I am afraid you are letting brexit prevent any rational thinking. Boris has already made his comments. Do you suppose he is lying? Countries can and do waive diplomatic immunity in certain circumstances. As we are supposedly a trusted ally and not a third world dictatorship I would expect a sensible response from the US. Neither the wife or husband are diplomats as such, the husband is a spy and has the courtesy of immunity extended to him,and by extension his wife. Fleeing from the scene of a crime with the public connivance of the American embassy simply brings both America and her embassy into widespread public disrepute. Morally the offender is totally in the wrong by using diplomatic immunity to flee a crime, as is the US for aiding and abetting. The person was responsible for a death. A UK court needs to make a determination as to circumstances, liability and punishment(if found guilty)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 06:43 AM

'pole dancer shagger'

now that's what i call a floorspot...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 07:34 AM

Wrong thread Al! ;-). :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 07:57 AM

It's easy to tell when the albino greased piglet is lying.

His lips move


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:22 AM

A notorious Canadian case provides a useful precedent: Russian drink-driving diplomat goes on trial in Moscow and Russian drink-driving diplomat convicted of involuntary manslaughter

At the time of the incident, the Ottawa police could do nothing to collect evidence against the accused -- even take a breathalyzer test -- because he invoked diplomatic immunity. Fortunately, the then Russian government wished to retain a working relationship with Canada, so the accused was dismissed from the diplomatic service, charged under Russian law, tried, and convicted.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 03:06 PM

UN-fortunately, Trumpistan (Formerly the U.S. of A.) has no wish to retain a working relationship with any one or any thing.

Watch This Space...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 05:49 PM

Didn't think she was drunk, just driving on the right side of the road for pretty much the whole world. Why on Earth does the UK still drive on the wrong side of the road? They must expect these accidents. I went the wrong way around roundabouts when in Ireland, luckily/ skillfully didn't hit anyone.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 07:18 PM

Australia, the Caribbean, India, South Africa, Japan and the UK drive on the left. That's almost half the world. So, as we were all here before you, why do YOU drive on the right, arsehole?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:41 PM

How in the world did that handful of countries, most if not all colonized by the Brits, become half the world?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 02:47 AM

Well of course Mrrzy, for the many hundreds of millions of inhabitants of the countries that Steve mentioned, the left is the ‘right’ side of the road. When we travel overseas, we have to drive according to the rules of the country(ies) we visit, and we have to drive on the right. It’s no different to an American having to drive on the left here, and we just accept it as a minor problem to get accustomed to.

But the issue in this case isn’t so much that the woman got confused and drove on the ‘wrong’ side of the road, is it? It’s that, having done that, and having caused the death of a young man who was driving on the correct side of the road, and having promised the police that she would not claim diplomatic immunity and remain here, she did the cowardly, dishonest thing, claimed DI, and fled back to the US in order to evade prosecution, All this in the knowledge that the US never accedes to requests for the extradition of a US citizen to face criminal charges abroad.

Can you imagine Trump’s reaction if the situation was reversed?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 04:32 AM

The population of India alone out of my list is 1.4 billion, and do pray tell me when Japan (a titchy 127 million) was "colonised by the Brits." Keep digging why don't you...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 04:37 AM

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-that-drive-on-the-left/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 06:06 AM

Dave Hanson: Cos she's an absolute cunt, end of.

Dave H


Not necessarily. My understanding is that her initial reaction was that yes, she'd "stay and face the music" but she was pressured (basically ordered) by the US State Dept to leave, presumably to try and minimise media interest (as her husband is in the intelligence service).

It's backfired "bigly" . If she'd stayed, local media would have picked it up but it would probably not have gone national/ international. Since it was a genuine mistake she would probably have been charged with Dangerous Driving and got a large fine/ suspended sentence and maybe a driving ban.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 06:33 AM

"...just driving on the right side of the road for pretty much the whole world. Why on Earth does the UK still drive on the wrong side of the road?"

So 35% of the world drives on the left. Take China out of the mix and we have a majority. I forgot Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia. That's a lot of "wrong" people. I suppose "whole world" is in the sense of Trump's America First and sod the rest and of your very stupidly-titled "World Series" rounders contest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 06:43 AM

Whilst I’m in complete agreement with you Steve, I think it’s only fair to point out that the ‘World Series’ doesn’t infer a world-wide competition (in the way it does with the football ‘Copa Mundial’, the World Cup) - it refers, if my information can be relied upon, to The World newspaper, which was the original sponsor of the competition.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 06:44 AM

Mo':

From Country Life magazine:

"The Americans, of course, drive on the right. Initially, when it was a British colony, the inhabitants drove on the left, but following their rebellion in 1776, they forswore all practices they associated with their colonial masters. Of course, the influx of settlers from European countries who had been subjected to the dread influence of the French also helped." [The "dread influence" was that of Napoleon, who enshrined driving on the right in much of Europe).

So yanks drive on the right because their forebears were just peevish. Though it should be said that the change didn't happen all in one go.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 06:50 AM

It's still a stupid title, John. At least the footie World Cup involves teams from all over the actual world. Had I sent my school rounders team over the pond to join in the yanks would never have let them! :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 06:52 AM

And your information is wrong in any case.

"The real reason behind the name is thanks to Barney Dreyfuss who was the owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates. In 1903, he wrote to the owner of the Boston Red Sox challenging them to a ‘World’s Championship Series’. The Pirates were the best team in the National League and the Red Sox were the best in the American League.

The games went ahead and Boston won the series five games to three. Over time, the 'World’s Championship Series' name has been shortened to the World Series and has been played every year apart from 1904 and 1994."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 06:53 AM

https://time.com/5696300/diplomatic-immunity-harry-dunn/

You have to admit that if the US hoped the case would remain under the radar it has backfired in a spectacular fashion

In 1974, police reported that a car driven by an attache at the Panamian Embassy ran a red light and collided with a car in which Dr. Halla Brown, a professor at George Washington University Medical School, was a passenger. Brown was paralyzed for life. The attache, uninsured, couldn't be compelled to pay damages. Some congressmen threatened to cut off aid to Panama, and eventually its government paid $100,000 toward Brown's medical expenses.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 07:02 AM

Right, BWM, the New York World, a now defunct newspaper, was the original sponsor of the Fall Classical and, btw, congratulations to the Nats for closing out the mighty Dodgers with a glorious come from behind victory last night.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mossback
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 09:17 AM

I hate to say I told you so(09 Oct 19 - 03:06 PM), but I told you so:

Briefing notes for a press conference on Wednesday told the president: “(If raised) Note, as Secretary Pompeo [the US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo] told Raab [the UK foreign secretary, Dominic Raab], that the spouse of the US government employee will not return to the United Kingdom.”"

And then (Thread Drift Alert) President Incredible Colossal Dumbfuck went on to explain:

Trump defended his decision to withdraw US troops from Syria and enable a Turkish offensive against US-backed Kurdish fighters in the region by noting that the Kurds “didn’t help us in the second world war, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example –


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 09:38 AM

Trump defended his decision to withdraw US troops from Syria and enable a Turkish offensive against US-backed Kurdish fighters in the region by noting that the Kurds “didn’t help us in the second world war, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example –

Not in Normandy, no, but they did form part of the allied OOB in the middle east, as "The Iraq Levies":

By 1942, the Iraq Levies consisted of a Headquarters, a Depot, Specialist Assyrian companies, 40 service companies and the 1st Parachute Company, which consisted of 75% Assyrian and 25% Kurd.

By 1943 the Iraq Levies' strength stood at 166 British officers controlling 44 companies: 22 Assyrian; five mixed Assyrian/Yazidi; 10 Kurdish; 4 Marsh Arabs and 3 Baluchi. Eleven Assyrian companies served in Palestine and another 4 served in Cyprus. The Parachute Company was attached to the Royal Marines Commando.

But they weren't on Omaha Beach, so I guess it doesn't count!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 10:36 AM

It looks like Steve had it right, I'd always bought into the New York World explanation but I'll blame my other gaffe, "Fall Classical" on my Kindle.

And thanks for that post, Rob Naylor.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 11:00 AM

Well bugger me backwards! Another long-held illusion shattered!

https://www.rulesofsport.com/faq/why-is-the-world-series-called-the-world-series-if-only-american-teams-play.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 11:32 PM

Is it the case that the embassy got her out under their orders rather than her request?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 01:49 AM

Well if so, Mrrzy, that makes it even worse - again I ask, can you imagine the Tweetstorm from Herr Drumpf if the situation was reversed, and an American teenager was killed by a British diplomat’s wife driving dangerously on the wrong side of the road, and who was then whisked away back to the UK in order to avoid responsibility?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 11:02 AM

It has been suggested the American ambassador should be declared persona non grata unless the diplomatic immunity to the CIA spy's wife is revoked. The accident is the third   caused by personnel from US military installations driving on the wrong side of the road.
"Houston. You have a problem"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 11:43 AM

You keep saying spy as if that mattered. The hubby's position is irrelevant to the wife's driving and to the state dept's decision to whisk her away. She killed someone accidentally, they used her immunity; that's what immunity is for. Or do you think that her hubby's job made her murder that poor kid? If not, why keep bringing up irrelevancies? The issue is the *existence* of immunity, not the fact that it was appropriately applied. Other countries protect their dips in the US and Europe and all over the world. That's what it's for.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 01:23 PM

Mrrzy, under UK law, anyone who drives on the wrong side of the road and kills another driver coming the other way on the correct side of the road is guilty of the criminal offence of ‘Causing Death by Dangerous Driving’.

DI exists to prevent the wrongful prosecution and/or persecution of Diplomatic personnel and their families, and as a deterrent to them being detained as hostages. It does not, or should not exist to enable those people to engage in criminal activity and avoid responsibility for their criminality.

If I drove on the wrong side of the road in the US and killed a US citizen, I would be prosecuted under US law - absolutely rightfully. If you drove on the wrong side of the road in the UK and killed a UK citizen, you would be prosecuted under UK law - absolutely rightfully.

Why should this woman be able to evade responsibility for her criminal activity - which you and I would, under similar circumstances, be subject to prosecution over - simply because her husband works for the US government?

THAT is the issue.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 03:21 PM

The issue is not simply cutting and running but the US abusing an agreement extending diplomatic immunity to spies and their dependents under SOFAS agreements. This is not diplomatic immunity sensu stricto.
The United States has been party to multilateral and bilateral agreements addressing the status of U.S. armed forces while present in a foreign country. These agreements, commonly referred to as Status of Forces Agreements (SOFAs), generally establish the framework under which U.S. military personnel operate in a foreign country, addressing how the domestic laws of the foreign jurisdiction shall be applied toward U.S. personnel while in that country.
Under similar circumstances the US has a history of leaning on countries to revoke diplomatic immunity in order to bring charges.

In the vernaciular you (the US)are taking the piss, and I do not like it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 03:35 PM

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/its-wrong-%E2%80%93-widow-blasts-us-troops-impunity-coroner-rules-captains-death

Who in their right mind uses a forklift instead of a flatbed to move a shipping container 3km ?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 03:36 PM

”You keep saying spy as if that mattered.”

Errrrrrrmmm...no! I haven’t referred to anyone as a ‘spy’. I don’t see where ”anyone on this thread has referred to anyone as a ‘spy’. The only reference I notice is from Steve, where he says that he’s read that the husband is ‘not a registered diplomat’. That’s very different to saying that he’s a ‘spy’.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 03:45 PM

There seems to be a lot of victim-blaming by Americans going on - both from Drumpf in respect of the Sacoolas case, and the soldiers in the case Iains linked to above.

Yet again I ask, what would be the reaction of Americans - especially Herr Führer Drumpf - if the circumstances were reversed, and Americans had been killed by British citizens in the US, who were then whisked away home in secret in order to avoid responsibility for their own fatal stupidity?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Oct 19 - 01:09 AM

Steve Shaw has it right up there. I used to wonder, as a child, why America drove on the right when in all their films, their stagecoaches drove on the left. It was explained to me that everyone drove on the left in those days so that the driver could swing his whip right-handed.
Then there was that Napoleon bloke who took over most of Europe and ordered that everyone did everything to his way of thinking.
I wonder if HE was left-handed?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 12 Oct 19 - 03:43 AM

Background for those that are inquisitive:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-sacoolas-american-diplomat-wife-fled-england-after-killing-19-year-old-harry-dunn-with-her-ca

Diplomat or convenient cover?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Monique
Date: 12 Oct 19 - 04:05 AM

Iains' link.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Oct 19 - 08:29 AM

Shame on the USA for denying justice to the English family bereaved by this woman, it's a disgrace to democracy.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Oct 19 - 08:34 AM

How many times have US Forces opened fire and killed friendly forces because of their gung ho attitude, and the USA defends them and denies justice ? It's time the rest of the world gave good old Uncle Sam the same respect.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Oct 19 - 11:12 AM

Search for Spy. More than one mention.

You are a dip in US who commits a crime, your embassy can get you out. That is immunity.

That's why the issue is immunity, not that it was applied here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 19 - 12:20 PM

A very interesting article here claiming complicity on the part of the UK’s own FCO, raising the issues of who, in fact, was driving the car, the fact that Mr. Sacoolas is not a diplomat within the meaning defined in the Vienna Convention, his role in assisting GCHQ to spy on British citizens’ communications, and asking important questions about this whole sordid, outrageous business.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 19 - 10:01 AM

Spy, again.

After the Tehran embassy takeover, we all got dip passports so that people (terrorists) couldn't tell who the CIA employees were.

That did not give us all diplomatic immunity except coming into the country, when our bags could not be searched. Has something illegal been seen, customs could not have done anything about it, even though we were not actually diplomatic. Again, that is how immunity works.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 19 - 10:17 AM

Ooh https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/13/uk/harry-dunn-immunity-intl-gbr-scli/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

Immunity now irrelevant says UK because she fled.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 19 - 01:20 PM

The parents of the dead boy are awaiting a meeting with the culprit
She appears to have agreed to meet them (with her lawyer present), but I don't think anything has happened yet
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 04:04 AM

The BBC reported that:

not only did the UK gov point out that being in America means she has no immunity now, the American gov confirmed the situation.

Which would suggest extradition was the route, though it looks like the family of the dead lad are looking into using the American courts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 10:37 AM

Try her in abstensia.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 11:30 AM

Not satisfactory, Mrrzy.

Justice should be seen to be done (R v Sussex Justices, ex parte McCarthy ([1924] 1 KB 256, [1923] - impossible whilst the accused is skulking in another country and refusing to face her accusers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 04:55 PM

Yeah... But no US court has jurisdiction. It's not as if she killed him *in* the embassy, which is technically DC.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Oct 19 - 06:12 PM

Precisely. She should be returned to the UK to be tried under UK Law.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 03:48 AM

Why does diplomatic immunity even exist? I'd rather my dips behave themselves...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 03:54 AM

Bingo! Right on the button!

In fairness, it exists in order to prevent individuals on diplomatic service and their families from being persecuted by less-than-friendly countries in which they have to serve - an example being where they could be arrested on trumped-up charges...effectively taken as hostages.

But my understanding is that DI does not absolve them from their responsibility to behave within the laws of the host country.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 05:16 AM

Trumped-up charges aahahahaha sorry.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 05:53 AM

Interesting piece in the guardian some days ago:
Mark Stephens, an acknowledged legal expert on diplomatic immunity law, challenged whether Jonathan Sacoolas enjoyed full immunity under the Vienna convention, saying he had not been registered as such with the Foreign Office.

He suggested Sacoolas and his dependents instead only had more limited immunity under the Visiting Forces Act, and its derivative bilateral orders that provide immunity to personnel on specific UK bases. That immunity, according to Crown Prosecution Service guidance, is restricted to specific offences that “arose out of and in the course of the service person’s duties as a member of the visiting force including whether the act occurred in the course of the individual’s professional duties”.

The US air force has in the past, according to the CPS, interpreted professional duties to include driving from an air base to a home address. The Sacoolas family was reportedly living on the base, which would mean they could not claim that defence.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 19 - 06:08 AM

”Trumped-up charges aahahahaha sorry.”

And I apologise for the weak pun - it seemed funny at the time! ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Oct 19 - 01:25 PM

Did you hear that the parents are in the US and got invited/summoned to the white house, where unbeknownst to them the driver was already there? Crass doesn't begin to cover it.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-sacoolas-grieving-parents-ambushed-by-trump-who-was-hiding-spy-wife-at-the-white-house?ref=scroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Mossback
Date: 16 Oct 19 - 02:17 PM

Yep, just goes to show what an absolute piece of shit Trump is.

Not content with perverting the course of justice by sequestering the perpetrator, he now attempts to use this tragedy to produce a photo-op/campaign rally spot.

Impeachment can't come too soon - get this goddamn son of a bitch NOW.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 06:03 AM

Of all the shabby things the dickwad has done that attempt at a Reality TV Show moment with those grief-stricken parents ranks up there with the shabbiest.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Iains
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 06:55 AM

All done at the instigation of Boris, If the media are to be believed!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 07:28 AM

Don't you mean if Trump is to believed?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 07:31 AM

Today Congress will have a vote to overturn
a Trump order to reverse Obama's clean air and water regs.
Another crack in the dam for the vile Frump administration.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 07:55 AM

Money, money money
Must be funny
In a rich man’s world....

<©> B. Ulvæus/B. Andersson


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 07:56 AM

Money, money money
Must be funny
In a rich man’s world....

© B. Ulvæus/B. Andersson


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 09:14 PM

We should rethink diplomatic immunity. I works well in cases of cultural confusion or misunderstanding but in cases of murder or manslaughter I feel there is a universality of understanding the need for respondsibility.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: US Diplomatic Immunity in UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 09:27 PM

If the woman had remained in the UK and faced the consequences of her actions, it’s highly unlikely she would have been charged with murder or manslaughter. She would possibly have been subject to the lesser charge of ‘Causing Death by Dangerous Driving’.

But, as it seems not to be politically expedient so far as your President and our Prime Minister are concerned, it seems unlikely we will ever know.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 20 October 8:06 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.