BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:07 AM

"vapourware will reduce."
I doubt it - what politicians promise will always be "like the barber's cat - all wind and piss (as my mam used to say) unless Corbyn breaks the mold
So far, so good
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:22 AM

”Facts are very awkward! Little jimmie first said:
Britain has always been ruled by educated apes.

I merely queried his nonsensical statement. The backward man should try to keep up with the narrative. Perhaps the name is very apt?”

Nothing to do with Jim, Baby Staines. You brought up Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown, not Jim - time to take responsibility for your own nonsense, all there in black and white for everyone to see.

And, in true barrack-room lawyer ex-squaddie fashion, you resort once again to insults when you have no case. Pure muppetry, and completely ineffectual - I couldn’t care less about a fool who has nothing but insults in his armoury.

Back to ignoring the ignorant, methinks.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:25 AM

not long now!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:31 AM

Jim if you propose childish arguments backed with childish jibes it would seem eminently sensible to treat you as a child. Serious communication with you is demonstrated to be an impossibility time after time.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 08:12 AM

Just a reminder that at the time Climate Change has now become a major international probe - - major flooding in Britain and Venice, Bush Fires in Australia, regular devastating hurricanes............... all the climate change chickens coming home to roost at the same time, The Tories have pulled Britain out of the International Climate Change Discussions on the orders to the White House thug now being investigated for impeachment
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:44 AM

There are two programs on BBC4 this evening (UK) about climate change. The first at 9 pm is a documentary investigating a data breach at the University of East Anglia in 2009 that suggested scientists had manipulated data to exaggerate evidence of climate change. and the second at 11:20 pm called Climate change by numbers. I'll be watching both with interest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:16 PM

"I'll be watching both with interest."
Doubt if Trump the Tweeter and Boris the Braindead will be
One will be changing the locks in preparation for the result of the forthcoming impeachment, the other will be awaiting his master's orders
Both area largely responsible for what is happening to the Planet
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:34 PM

The 'Climate change by Numbers' programme says three mathematicians 'reveal three numbers that tell the story about the past, present and future of the earth's climate."

I have yet to see it, but I am EXTREMELY sceptical that three numbers can reveal any such thing. It would be at best an extremely gross generalisation. Not least because it is numbers: three formulae would still be extremely coarse, but might give some vague chance. But even then, it would probably be curve fitting to data, not explaining data.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 04:26 PM

For this reason alone, no decent, responsible, ordinary person should vote for the bunch of A-holes who have put the NHS into this position...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:23 PM

And get this. Migration from the EU down by two-thirds. Migration from outside the EU up by 21%. Businesses who depend on EU migrants struggling. The immigration we could control, from outside the EU, is not controlled and it won't be a lot different after brexit. And the nasty smirking arrogant bugger who's spouting her vicious bile about "controlling our borders," Patel, wouldn't even be here at all had "our borders been controlled" when her folks wanted to move here. You couldn't make it up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:57 PM

What I never understood about the immigration business is this.

Those poor people who died in the container, and those people in camps at Calais - why are they so desperate to get here? To risk their lives!

After all they're out of the danger zone. they're in a country with a better economy that us. by all accounts better health service, better wages, better education system...

What is the attraction of Britain?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 02:42 AM

You’ve been reading the Daily Fail and listening to that pair of lying c**ts Farage and Johnson again, Al. You’ve fallen for their nonsense, which is designed to appeal to their audience’s confirmation bias’, a.k.a. ‘Tell them what their prejudices want to hear’.

The truth is that the UK gets fewer asylum applicants than many of the other ‘top’ EU Member-States - fewer than Hungary, Sweden, Italy, France, around the same number as Belgium, Austria, and Switzerland, and considerably fewer than Germany - click the link and scroll down to the table headed ‘Number of First-Time Asylum Applicants’.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis

And the answer to your question is, why wouldn’t the minority of migrants who attempt to come to the UK want to come here? Over the past couple of centuries at least, we have been a country that welcomes the weak and disadvantaged, we have stood up and fought tyrants not only for our own freedom but, more importantly, the freedom of other, weaker nations, we have built a successful economy, and we have (for the time being at least) a reasonably decent system of health and social care.

And we speak English - still the standard business-language and Lingua Franca of the whole world.

You like living here - so much so that you want to pull up the drawbridge, isolate us from the world’s biggest trading bloc - our nearest neighbours - and stop ‘them foreigners’ from coming here. Isn’t that what the Brexiteers’ mantra, Cummings’ rabble-rousing slogan ‘Take Back Control’ is all about?

In other words, they see the UK as Safety and Opportunity. Why wouldn’t somebody running from rape, murder, starvation, and other horrors we can only imagine, or even simply economic need, want to come here? And why would any decent, civilised, humane person want to stop them?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 04:50 AM

Taking that a little further, Backwoodsman.

Let us focus on just that section who have for to Calais and still want to get to the UK. why don't they just stop in France?


well, a lot do, as BWM said. Then again as he said, the UK has a history of tolerance. while we have plenty to worry about here with racial attacks we are still a more welcoming country in many respects. For example, France has laws banning the hijab in public. Whatever you may think about that, these migrants have lost home, family, and jobs. Almost all they have left is their sense of identity. And banning the hijab takes even that away from them.

When Belsen-Bergen was freed by the allies there were lots of things sent to their aid: food, clothes, medicine. One day they recieved a large box of lipsticks. The initial response was, in modern terminology WYF? But afterwards some of the people involved said it was the single most important parcel they recieved because it gave the women back a sense of identity" they were women again, not objects.

It does not do to underestimate the importance of the sense of identity; it can outweigh everything else. In some ways, that is the real driving force of Brexit for many people.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:19 AM

I would have thought the vietnamese would have a closer cultural ties with france than us.

You're not listening BWM,   to what I'm saying. You're just coming with the dial a remoaner typical response.

I am genuinely puzzled as to why someone would risk their life to come here from Austria - I believe it was in the case of the Vietnamese. The EU generally though. As I believe you keep telling us. We will losing all the brilliant opportunities of employment in the EU for our own citizens, if we were to leave the EU. These people are not just trotting down the road to find another job. They are risking their lives. There must be some logic in it. I realise I won't get it from you.

I don't read any newspaper s these days. I have always driven on the left when it comes to voting - none of the right wing papers have ever disgraced my home.
You thought processes have been got at BWM.. Try to to achieve some independence of mind in your dotage. take a leaf out of jim's book.

here he is every day defending his pitch against the barbarians. try to be more like him. you know it makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: JHW
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:32 AM

'National polls will not greatly influence my voting decision.'
Nor do I expect that my voting decision will affect the national result.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:35 AM

The broadband initiative is a brilliant move.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:38 AM

National polls will not greatly influence my voting decision.'
Nor do I expect that my voting decision will affect the national result.

That depends where you live, JHW. In my ward, the Conservatives had a majority of 31. The Tory is an ERG member, the defeated Labour man was strongly remain. There was at least one vote on the Brexit dance where speaker had a casting vote, and cast it with the government (which Brexiteers overlook as it does not fit their tale about him.) Had a handful of people voted, or voted differently, that vote and possibly the course of Brexit itself could have changed.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:51 AM

Y’know Al, for somebody who has achieved notoriety for playing the victim, and pissing and moaning about other people’s rudeness, you can be a very insulting fucker yourself, can’t you?

I tried to present a case which makes sense and isn’t mired in the racist propaganda of the Brexit Brigade. If you’re so intellectually bereft that you can’t understand the perfectly sound facts and reasons I presented, and feel the need to vent your considerable spleen on me, there’s nothing more I can say, other than that I suggest you find another victim.

Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM

The broadband initiative is a brilliant move.
Snigger, snigger
BT’s share price dropped almost 4% on opening this morning, following Labour’s late-night announcement yesterday that they plan on nationalising parts of BT to provide free full-fibre broadband to every household. They’ve costed it at £20 billion, which, in comparison to the rest of Labour’s manifesto, borders on pocket change…

Doing the media rounds this morning, McDonnell has promised re-nationalising British Telecoms really is the “limit of their ambitions”, however it has been pointed out he said the same thing when announcing he’d nationalise water, energy, rail and the post office…

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 07:56 AM

BWM - much as I love you and would never abuse you.

You are not engaging with the point that puzzled me, you are calling me a Daily mail reader - which frankly hurts. And comes nowhere in answering my question.

i really don't think our history, which has as many bloody tyrants as any other country, is the reason why people would risk their lives to get from Austria to here. I REALLY don't get it. And by the look of it - neither do you. Its just never occurred to you.

i will probably vote for he veggie munching little bumhole - but I don't have to agree with him, or like what he's done to the party I have voted for all my life.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 09:59 AM

At the moment the BT share price is down 1%, which is higher than it was on Nov 12 and roughly on trend for the last month. The announcement does not look as if it had a sustained impact. Of course, as with all share prices, that can change.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 06:20 PM

I think things are getting interesting. The NHS stats that came out yesterday, reflecting pretty accurately nine years of Tory misrule, and the broadband coup today that has wrongfooted the other parties and that is difficult to argue against, could be gamechangers. On top of that, Farage and his motley crew are rapidly imploding on the back of his severe political misjudgements. It's just whether anyone's listening...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:20 AM

I will vote for the labour party

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:30 AM

This could be an interesting week. The Labour Manifesto will be issued, but the Conservative one is not expected just yet. That will create a difficult few days for people like Javid who are stressing their fictitious costs of the Labour proposal. Time and again they are likely to be challenged that the figures they quote are for things not in the manifesto, while simultaneously still unable to cost theirs. And if they start saying what they think the actual manifesto will cost, they will again be open to challenge that they are putting more effort into costing the Labour proposals than their own.

I am convinced that this is going to be an election of individual wards. The conventional approach of seeing what Sunderland does (or other early declarer of the ward result) and basing predictions assuming that everywhere is likely to be an unusually poor guide to what actually happens.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:40 AM

Latest polls:

Panelbase: CON: 43% (+3) LAB: 30% (-) LDEM: 15% (-) BREX: 5% (-3)

PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

       Tories: 8/15 (4/7)(1.53)
       No overall: 7/4 (13/8)(2.75)
       Labour: 20/1 (20/1)(21)
       Lib Dems: 150/1 (150/1)
       Brexit Party: -* (250/1)
If Paddy Power is correct, it is looking GOOD!!!!
Seems the also rans are stumbling at the first fence!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:42 AM

From the poetry of Christopher Logue


I shall vote Labour
I shall vote Labour because
God votes Labour.
I shall vote Labour to protect
the sacred institution of The Family.
I shall vote Labour because
I am a dog.
I shall vote Labour because
upper-class hoorays annoy me in expensive restaurants.
I shall vote Labour because
I am on a diet.
I shall vote Labour because if I don't
somebody else will:
AND
I shall vote Labour because if one person
does it
everybody will be wanting to do it.
I shall vote Labour because if I do not vote Labour
my balls will drop off.
I shall vote Labour because
there are too few cars on the road.
I shall vote Labour because I am
a hopeless drug addict.
I shall vote Labour because
I failed to be a dollar millionaire aged three.
I shall vote Labour because Labour will build
more maximum security prisons.
I shall vote Labour because I want to shop
in an all-weather precinct stretching from Yeovil to Glasgow.
I shall vote Labour because
the Queen's stamp collection is the best
in the world.
I shall vote Labour because
deep in my heart
I am a Conservative.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:51 AM

When I first read that poem, which was when I was back at school, I found it quite confusing. It becomes clearer when you learn Logue was a pacifist and very active in CND. So it is very likely that he felt Labour was not left wing enough: hence the 'deep in my heart/I am a Conservative' couplet.

I am sure he would be far closer to Corbyn than Johnson - but still think Corbyn is not left wing enough.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 04:55 AM

It really is about time the working-class Tories (or ‘Mucky Toffs’ as my dad always called them) woke up...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-brexit-bus-election-vote-leave-campaign-jeremy-corbyn-a9204591.html?fbclid=Iw

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 05:29 AM

Good resource here

Boris Johnson fact checker

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 07:36 AM

The above is an article explaining the fact checker BTW. The actual fact checker is linked in the third paragraph of the article as "publish them online" or directly here - https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 08:23 AM

First visit by a campaigner (Tory: Royston Smith)

I opened by referencing the report that he had had least interventions in Parliament of any MP and had reacted to the news by saying "Someone has to come bottom of such lists".   

The poor guy then asked if I had any other concerns about Royston. "Well, yes, quite a lot, but I think being the least active MP is quite an important one, don't you agree?"

So we didn't even get round to any policy issues....

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 08:59 AM

The Tory Party is now under investigation accused of bribing two Brexit Party candidates to stand down - this early in the contest !!!!
Javid and "denied it, your honour"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 10:37 AM

Shit! If I'd have stood for election - perhaps someone would have bribed me.....just in case anyone is in doubt, I am totally corrupt, and very much open to offers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 11:20 AM

This Sky News piece goes to show how, once the Right-Wing-Extremist bullshit, bollocks, and spin is removed, the truth about Corbyn’s economics is that his ideas and policies are, in fact, mainstream policies, far removed from the Far Left policies his opponents accuse him of.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 12:07 PM

"perhaps someone would have bribed me..."
The punchline of an old Miners story about a scab recorded by MacColl was "The bosses only buy the best, not sh**" Al :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM

Priti Patel, Sajid Javid and Ben Wallace have blocked at the last minute an agreed plan to repatriate 60 children, including some orphans, of UK Isis families in Syria. A safe exit from the country had been organised, flights home arranged and care plans put in place by various councils across the country. This staggering inhumanity for pure political gain has to be exposed. These Tories know that this kind of ploy chimes nicely with the "tough on foreigners" sentiment they wish to encourage. I thought I couldn't get any more disgusted with these scumbags than I already am, but I was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:14 PM

""tough on foreigners" "
Thought Brexit had sorted that out years ago with its spike in hate crimes
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 04:16 AM

From the Observer:

"Jennifer Arcuri: ‘I’ve kept Johnson’s secrets – now he’s cast me aside like a one-night stand’"

I don't about anyone else, but to me that reads "Be careful, I still have your secrets I can use when it suits me."

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 05:31 AM

It will be interesting to see if the latest revelations of British atrocities in Iraq ('Britain's Abu Ghraib'), and elsewhere will become an election issue - and how the Tories will inevitably attempt to explain them away, of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 07:00 AM

It just occurred to me - this election campaign has a certain resemblance to that old TV programme - The Wacky Races!
I leave you to work out who is Dastardly, Muttley and Penelope Pitstop.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 07:24 AM

I have to say Al that this is the first time for a long time I regret not being able to vote in a British Election
Must be going barmy in my old age !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:28 AM

The culture that's developed of those in high places being able to lie blatantly to us and think they can get away with it is getting worrying. We all know about Johnson and Trump, masters of the art. But last night we had Prince Andrew telling us that he never saw anything to concern him at Epstein's house, that he couldn't remember a thing about the girl in the photo and nothing at all ever happened with her, that he only went back to stay with post-jail Epstein at his house (not a posh hotel or the British consulate) for FOUR DAYS just to tell him he was breaking it off... I found the whole thing absolutely jaw-dropping.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:32 AM

We're taking bets here whether Prince Eddie the Educated is going to be asked to resign !!
Interesting days
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:48 AM

 But last night we had Prince Andrew telling us that he never saw anything to concern him at Epstein's house.

Possibly true. But whether it would have concerned a police officer or a social worker might have a different answer.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 10:10 AM

Your jaw drops too easy Steve. i'd have it seen to.

You should see the things he got up to with Budgie the Helecopter.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 11:39 AM

It will be interesting to see if the latest revelations of British atrocities in Iraq ('Britain's Abu Ghraib'), and elsewhere will become an election issue - and how the Tories will inevitably attempt to explain them away, of course
all under Bliar and the Broon I believe. I wonder what comrade corbyn has to say about it?
Obviously not just spellchecker required!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:08 PM

”He takes a breath and adds: “The sole aim of Brexit is to enable the super-rich to move their money around the world, avoiding the regulation and taxation that the EU seeks to impose. They get richer, we get poorer.”

Never a truer word, and a very good reason to get rid of Johnson and the Tories in this election.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM

Blair and Brown were honourary Tories - That's what New Labour Was about
Blair sueezed out of war criminality because he wasn't considered a threat to the status quo
Corbyn would have been banged up in the Tower for have the damage Blair did to British Societ
It's will be fascinating to see how Prinny will be lifted off the hook he is now hung on
They are demanding he gives evidence under oath - wonder if he'll plead diplomatic immunity (or just blame his poor upbringing)
A teminder how the GREAT AND THE GOOD LET THEIR HAIR DOWN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM

Blair and Brown were honourary Tories - That's what New Labour Was about
Blair sueezed out of war criminality because he wasn't considered a threat to the status quo
Corbyn would have been banged up in the Tower for have the damage Blair did to British Societ
It's will be fascinating to see how Prinny will be lifted off the hook he is now hung on
They are demanding he gives evidence under oath - wonder if he'll plead diplomatic immunity (or just blame his poor upbringing)
A teminder how the GREAT AND THE GOOD LET THEIR HAIR DOWN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

200!