BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:58 AM

Right you are Al. A Labour MP from an affluent urban area who got elected last week says to a Labour MP from a working-class area who lost her seat: “I’m glad my voters aren’t as stupid as yours.”

YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:41 AM

Yes I get it, everyone who talks about what they see every day is stupid, racist and ignorant. Only 'nice liberal' people are allowed to have conversations and express their niceness, because they're so very nice. And all the rest of the people are hopelessly ignorant, racist and lets face it - stupid.

I think Boris is going to be there in No 10 for ever.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:12 AM

Just because someone tells you an uncomfortable truth Dave

But it's not an uncomfortable truth, Al. It's not any sort of truth.

http://theconversation.com/immigration-and-crime-is-there-a-link-93521

Direct from the article

a large scale European study on the effects of immigration on crime concluded that while an increase in immigration generally does not affect crime levels, it does go hand-in-hand with increased public anxiety and anti-immigration stances.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:42 AM

The voice of reason, DMcG - as ever! Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:42 AM

Wish there was no truth in what I said, but like many Boston exiles, that is the message we keep getting. Bitching about the subject has been banned on the Boston website.

Just because someone tells you an uncomfortable truth Dave, it doesn't mean its motivated by malice.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:17 AM

How does that speech end, Ians?

Ah yes,

That England that was wont to conquer others
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.

=====

We are where we are. For me, this conquest is not 'Brexit', but a willingness to adopt a leader who avoids scrutiny and whose manifesto is so light. But, as I indicated, it seems possible to me we follow a BRINO deal in the end. Do not forget that Johnson is famed for writing those two articles before the referendum. Even if he went for Leave in the end, that implies he saw some positives in our relationship with Europe, unlike some of the hardest ERG who seem it think it is all bad almost tautologically. It may stretch me a bit, but I am not without hope.

The 'Remain' side need to recalibrate. I and other sare convinced that any form of Leave is worse than Remaining. I still think that, but it no longer the question. The focus now must be - as to be honest it should have been from the referendum onwards - how to get the best Leave deal.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:57 AM

No Dave - that was your fantasy

Was it, Al? So your are going to deny posting this then?

People in my home county Lincolnshire are very. upset at the influx of Eastern Europeans, and the lawlessness they have bought to towns like Boston

If that is not saying that East Europeans are lawless, just what is it saying? Oh, and I do not have Polish neighbours. I am half Polish. I suppose being told to tuck off back to Poland where I belong is not racist either.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:54 AM

when a private citizen can't express a simple and obvious truth, without being accused of spouting crap designed to stir people up.

I think we have reached a crisis point. I don't want to stir anyone up.

But maybe you need to know why the party I have voted for all my life is so unpopular. Basically it won't address the legitimate concerns of this country's citizens.

Tells them they are fools, ignorant racists, spouting crap.

Look to yourself as to why you lost that election.

Calling Boris an albino piglet won't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:46 AM

@ Big Al Whittle. I said for months that compo's postion on brexit was nonsense. When you are having a general election vote hijacked by brexit it would seem obvious to a two year old that clarity was required.
To argue a foggy neutral stance on brexit was a guaranteed recipe for disaster for labour. As events clearly demonstrated.
For future events the intent is already laid out.
As for Boris being weird he is popular.
He will lead us out of the wilderness and into the promised land of blue passports and real border controls, just like days of yore.

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for her self
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in a silver sea
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:42 AM

I can't believe there is so much gloating going on in this thread. I wish I had the means to p*** off away from this cesspit of a country. Women voting to be robbed of 7 years of their pensions????? Very commendable that they want to die before they get back any of what they have paid in National Insurance so that their betters pay less tax.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:39 AM

No Dave - that was your fantasy.

I live happily next door to a Polish guy who pays his taxes, works every day and has two lovely kids.

I told you that I had a friend whose quid shop on Boston green was routinely robbeed by an East European gang that the police couldn't be arsed to chase after.

You refused to accept that.

You are one of the myriad of voices who called me racist because I asked a simple question.

Why did those Vietnamese people risk their lives to come to England when they are living in European countries that, by their own account at least, have better health systems, pay better wages, enjoy greater political freedom, have wonderful open opportunities to all residents.

And yet people risk their lives every single day live years in squalid refugee camps to come to this shitty little country of unfriendly racists, money grabbing tories, not to mention their bloody awful folk music.

Doesn't really add up.

Are you sure you got your facts right?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:30 AM

With comments like that you are a racist, in fact worse than a racist because you are spouting crap aimed at stirring up prejudicies.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:15 AM

I'm not a racist but...

then along comes the free movement of European citizens. they all want council houses, free education, free health care.

Showing your true colours there, Al. You are going to tell us east Europeans are criminals next. Oh, hang on, you already have!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:15 AM

Iains - Boris is weird. Stop pretending you know what is going to happen.

I'm pretty sure there will be casualties. Just hold your breath and hope we're still alive.

Nobody really wanted him as PM. It was just that JC was unspeakably and very obviously bad.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:56 AM

'But Tories are always in it for what they can get'

Just where have you got in these tortured ponderings where ordinary people are not allowed to have any material aspirations?

And the people you're taking this gospel from Mark Steel (on the richest comedians register) and Diane Abbot (net worth 3 million)

When I started work as a teacher, my wage packet was thirteen quid a week. that was after 3 years at college. A third of my wage packet was confiscated by the government and half of my wife's. But we figured that was allright. the government were going to take care of us.

Then along comes Thatcher with the dutch auction offering lower taxes each election. then along comes the free movement of European citizens. they all want council houses, free education, free health care.

So surprise surprise! the government can't afford to pay my teaching pension - have to delay for five years. Ladies born a couple of years after me fare even worse.

just why British citizens aren't allowed to be 'in it for themselves' to the extent of getting a decent pension that they have paid for, even.

the hole in the bottom of the Corbyn boat finance wise was the fact that - however much he raised by tax (and most people thought he was bullshitting) that free movement of EU citizens would gobble it up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:53 AM

Jeremy Corbyn was accused of being in denial yesterday after issuing a Labour recruitment video in which he says his manifesto had been “popular”. He claimed to “have won the arguments” and “inspired millions to engage in politics”.

He inspired millions all right! To kick labour out of power for a generation. Music to my ears.
3 rousing cheers for Bojo.

Good to see he has the BBC in his sights. Do a maggie, sell them off and cancel the annual tax.
Then carry out the delayed electoral boundary commission recommendations.
That will reduce labour even more.
Then we can have a reform of postal votes
Then put a stake through the heart of labour with the Equality and Human Rights Commission's findings on antisemitism.

OOOH happy days!
I hate to say I told you so but I will anyway:
Iains - PM
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 10:24 AM

The Boris bounce versus the compo corpse.
Spiffing news from the last survey results: Boris has taken a lead of 14 points over Labour in a new Kantar TNS poll, with the party jumping by 17% since May. What a lad! You can read all about it on Guido's site,
the font of truth and editorial accuracy
(Font as in once dipped in it you are baptized into a life of truth and righteousness and drop all those foolish leftie ideas.
(Remember Ecclesiastes 10:2)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:24 AM

Then that big mistake on brexit... but isn't hindsight wonderful

Yes it is. But when I resigned my Labour party membership I included a fairly long (and hopefully more organised) explanation that said the same sort of things I did in my earlier post. And that was long before an election was in the offing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:16 AM

Sure, Blair got Murdoch onside. He was young and dynamic and bloody popular with a massive majority, and the Tories threw up a succession of dolts as party leaders. Corbyn had every attack dog at his throat in both this and the previous election. In both cases he chose to take the high road. To an extent it worked with May because she was a seriously unattractive and stodgy figure. It looks like his advisers told him to adopt the same ploy this time, but the Tory backroom boys saw that coming, kept their poster boy out of the glare as much as humanly possible and did what Tories always do best: tell the public lies in insultingly simple slogans. It works because the electorate in this country is largely politically illiterate. Remember all those Beeb vox pops, enough to make a grown man weep at times...I agree about missing open goals. Attacks on the Tory record over a decade were couched in general and mild terms, rarely bigging up those irrefutable specific facts and figures about crumbling schools with huge classes and slashed funding, hospital waiting lists going through the roof, bed shortages, patients dying on trolleys, A&E disaster areas, millions more workers suffering the abuses of zero-hours contracts and the gig economy, homelessness burgeoning, benefits claimants suffering destitution because of a severely ballsed-up and inhuman benefits system,, food banks... All the numbers were out there but we didn't hear anywhere enough of them. Then that big mistake on brexit... but isn't hindsight wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:49 AM

”The thing is BWM, when you play the ukulele, you need the hours before light to listen to your george Formby dvds and work on your split stroke and your triple strum.”

Never gonna happen. I have enough trouble playing guitar and mando.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:47 AM

I found these two commentaries on the result interesting.

Johnathan Pie - not his usual comic wild fury, but some serious points

Rory Stewart

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:28 AM

Watched Jc and macDonnel's interviews.

they were going to take it on the chin. Then they blamed the media.

Bit like the captain of The Titanic blaming the iceberg. if you are sailing on these oceans you have a responsibility not sail into these things.

Sneer at will, but Blair calmed them down.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:20 AM

The thing is BWM, when you play the ukulele, you need the hours before light to listen to your george Formby dvds and work on your split stroke and your triple strum.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:18 AM

Bit of a random collection of thoughts here!


I posted here many months ago that I thought Labour's policy on addressing Brexit was mature and intelligent, but unfortunately completely 'unsellable' on the doorstep. I forget who it was but some famous author - Samuel Johnson, perhaps - said when writing you needed to do in such a way:

Not that it can be understood by those who want
But that it must be understood, whether they want to or not

The policy certainly met the first criteria, but failed dismally at the second. Now, there was actually a faint chance it could have succeeded if it was argued strongly as that grown up position, but time and again - even in Corbyn's articles after the result - that is was necessary because Labour's base straddled Leavers and Remainers.

That presents it, not as a sensible idea, but as a squalid attempt to get maximum advantage for the Labour party, with the wishes of the actual constituents of secondary importance. [Out of interest, this was when I left the Labour party. ]

So yes, I do see Labour's Brexit policy as the biggest reason why they lost so badly. This is not to excuse Corbyn, who basically showed no enthusiasm or ability to think on his feet. He was presented with no end of open goals during PM's Questions, but almost always ignored them, sticking to his pre-prepared notes. Then in the election period the one time I thought 'Yes! This is the Corbyn of 2016' was at the launch of the manifesto: the fire and passion was there. But it was missing from all the televised debates and interviews.


But as I and many others have said, we are not 'getting Brexit done':   just taking the first step. So whoever becomes the next Labour leader will still have Brexit on their plate. Not Leave/Remain, of course, but how close to the EU we remain. And I think we might well see interesting things happening in the new Parliament on that front. A constant cry of the Remainers was that "people voted to Leave the EU: They did not vote to be poorer and lose their rights." Given his majority, especially in the red wall constituencies, I find it plausible that Johnson seeks a deal that is very 'BRINO' according to some people. I don't think we will see signs of that in the immediate cabinet, but after the bigger shuffle predicted after 31 Jan, we should see clues one way or the other.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:07 AM

Unless you are a millionaire and/or tax evader, you are indeed an idiot (fuckwit is not a word I use) if you voted brexit and/or Tory. Over the next three or four years you will see this in spades. You were taken in by the mass media. You were taken in by a hubris-ridden, testosterone-fuelled liar. You were all too easily fooled by a hostile media into thinking that Jeremy, a principled man who drops hot shit on Johnson when it comes to honesty, is the devil incarnate. If you're not actually an idiot, you're a racist. It really is that simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmJLxpkzysI

I do object to be called an idiot and racist, especially by an idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:49 PM

I’m obviously not the only one with insomnia tonight! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:29 PM

I think it's time the liberals disbanded,
and each member decide if they are more Labour or tory...

I can persuade myself that a streamlined two party system
might work more effectively...???

[ Maybe Independents, comic nutter candidates, and single issue no hope parties,
might still serve some purpose...???]

That'd provide plenty enough overlap room in the middle to strengthen centrist moderates
from both sides in co-operation on specific issue by issue basis,
as if in coalition...


well it's an idea...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:45 PM

You don't actually know what you're talking about. Corbyn voted remain. I'm a member of the party but I disapprove of the image conveyed by Momentum and I will never join them. Momentum haven't learned the lessons of the Derek Hatton days. But your post is predicated on the lie that Jeremy is a brexiteer. He is not, and his stance, though horribly naive and there for the taking by the tabloids you presumably get your "information" from, was in fact grown up when put alongside the brainless "get brexit done" shit from your party and the disastrous "revoke" LibDem ploy (disastrous but not undemocratic, as I insist on saying). Read better papers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:35 PM

The question as I see it is will whoever gets elected be a leader or a figurehead? It appears to me that Momentum lead the Labour party at the moment. To a certain extent Jeremy Corbyn was led by Momentum or the party membership. It is widely known that he was personally in favour of leaving the EU. The party membership or Momentum decided against leave and so the party line became a second referendum after a new deal.

Now it turns out that that was the policy that swung the election. Momentum and the party take no responsibility for this decision. They blame Corbyn and no one mentions that he was all for leaving and had he actually led on that the result would have been very different.

If the new 'leader' is just a figurehead for Momentum I don't see much hope for Labour in the next five years.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:29 PM

I'm going to bed now, Al, but before I go I'll just say this. There are Tories who talk nice. There are Tories who talk gentle. But Tories are always in it for what they can get. Tories are in it for self-interest. Nice Tories are actually not nice at all. They are out to delude you. Just before the election, a poll found that 48% of Tory voters admit that they are racist. Blimey, that's just the ones who admit it, excluding the ones who say "I'm not a racist, but..."

I'm sure your aunt was a lovely woman but I'm also sure that you never forensically dissected her questionable politics. She was family, after all. Yeah, my grandad was just the same. Luvly feller, worked on Salford docks all his life, always voted Tory...

The trouble is, Al, that the alternative to what you see as detestable Corbynist policies is not Tory policies. That false message has been sold to the electorate this time, especially up north, and it worked. I'm saying that the Tory campaign has sold you a pup. You appear not to able to see that, along with millions of others. Well, it's going to come back to bite you. Soon, and big time. I take no joy in that either.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:14 PM

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:09 PM

Steve look at that comment the one before last.

You sound like the guy about to climb the clock tower
with an attack rifle. Time to come down from interplanetary Zog.

My aunt was a tory councillor for one of the roughest parts of Liverpool all her life. A gentler more decent lady, you could never meet. My Grandad was a miner from the age of twelve til he was 70. He played dominoes every week in the Conservative Club in St Helens.

Whoever has convinced you that ANYONE will vote for this shit you're coming out with has lied to you and misled you.

This rage is totally unproductive. If you insult people they will not vote for you. Its a stupid policy, and only a very stupid leader could have sanctioned and encouraged it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 08:38 PM

Party members were asked in a poll today who should be the next leader. I struggle a bit with this. Half of me sez that principle should rule the day but the other half of me sez that the Corbyn project has been totally scuppered by the media, and that a new leader tarnished by the past would be trounced next time round. I'd have gone for Rebecca Long-Bailey, but she is tainted. In the end I voted for Jess Phillips. I dislike her intensely, but we simply have to win the next election. She's feisty enough to take on Johnson...and she's a woman... The only bloke in with a chance as I see it is Keir Starmer. But he ain't half a man in a suit...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 08:28 PM

You are a liar. Those things were never said and you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 06:44 PM

If you're not actually an idiot, you're a racist.

"Labour spokesmen said that they are “pretty sure” they lost so many seats because, “they didn’t call enough people ‘racist’.”

Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the main opposition Labour Party, said, “We clearly didn’t call enough people racist during this campaign. We’re going to have to step up our game next election and call people racist 50 percent more.”

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 06:39 PM

Oh well. Keep it up lads. Should see Boris in power for about eighteen years.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 05:52 PM

Unless you are a millionaire and/or tax evader, you are indeed an idiot (fuckwit is not a word I use) if you voted brexit and/or Tory. Over the next three or four years you will see this in spades. You were taken in by the mass media. You were taken in by a hubris-ridden, testosterone-fuelled liar. You were all too easily fooled by a hostile media into thinking that Jeremy, a principled man who drops hot shit on Johnson when it comes to honesty, is the devil incarnate. If you're not actually an idiot, you're a racist. It really is that simple. There is no such thing as a Tory with a conscience. There is no such thing as a one-nation Tory. The Tory party is the party of self-interest, devil take the hindmost. It is and always was. In the last nine years, food banks have done a roaring trade. People have died on hospital trolleys and the A&E waiting time is the worst by streets that it's ever been. People cruelly denied benefits have died in the jobcentre queue. Millions have "contracts" which ensure that they don't know whether tomorrow will provide any work or pay. Meanwhile, tax cuts for the wealthy are on the cards. Non-doms and off-shorers are indulged. Another Eton cabinet will rule us. Welcome to Tory Britain. And Boris's soft talk beyond the red wall is simply another of his lies. One might have thought that you'd have seen it by now. More fool you.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 05:33 PM

You are back to referring to the mysterious "you" again, Al. Are you going to continue hiding just who you are referring to? Stop trying to insinuate things about people and backing off when confronted about it. If you want to accuse someone of something at least have the courage to name them.

As to "nasty" comments on Facebook, I refer you back to Backwoodsman's points earlier. How many times have you been told you are a traitor and deserve to be killed? I can also refer you to my own experience where, although I was born and raised in England, I have been told to "fuck off back to Poland" because I want to stay in Europe. Finaly, and tragically, how many brexit supporters have been killed for supporting their cause like poor Jo Cox was? Come off it. You are not a victim. You are aligning yourself with the hate campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 04:46 PM

Point Three

Poor jeremy has been demonised.
not half as much as Leave people on the FB. And don't tell me that the saintly JC wasn't aware of the stream of abuse his momentum gang were spewing out over Facebook at traditional Labour voters.

Two tradtional Labour ladies well into their 70's have been called Fascist Tory bitches this week that I know. Mark Steel called us all fuckwits. I suppose it makes a change from Brexshitters. Such a hoot calling us oiks silly names.

Now how about voting for JC....? Tommy Robinson is fuck all to do with anything. they're pondlife - and frankly the Momentum gang on FB make more convincing brownshirts than that shit for brains gang.

he's not THAT bloody out of touch, or if he is he should be a trappist monk not PM.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 04:35 PM

Al - disaffected Labour voters have been reading, viewing videos, and agreeing
with relentless blatant far right internet propaganda for some years now...

I know this as fact as I join in with them frequently to stay aware and informed...
and attempt a trickle of resistance to see how they respond...

WE now have our answer...

Who needs the Mail...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 04:34 PM

Okay next point - this phenomenon is mirrored over the pond.

Tr8ump is a wanker, everyone agrees. (cept possibly Iains)

However the democrats reek of New England smart arsiness (plus anasty shot of tamany hall/whitewater corruption) to the midwest in the same way the Hampstead socialists do to Northern labour Voters.

And what do the democrats do - of course just like their Brit mirror image. they blame it on racism, ignorance, etc.

oh life's so unfair!! When we really are nice.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 04:27 PM

i tried that and it didn't come back.

the substance of what i was aying was that if Boris is as bad as you say. You've got to be pretty shit to lose to him. And instead of looking inwardly you're blaming The daily Fucking mail - which I'm willing to bet none of the disaffected Labour voters woud be seen dead reading.

let's try that bit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 03:17 PM

Pete - I should have joined Labour and been an activist,
but there's something wrong with my personality that makes me asocial,
and a reclusive outsider..

However, it keeps me relatively objective as an observer...

Many of my best old mates are high up in local Labour party organization,
so I expect some interesting conversations to come...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 02:40 PM

PFR: Examples of Mudcat account hacking exists even into the PM messages section where I received 3 Private Message accusations of dire proportions and each were totally changed in a matter of hours.

Perhaps you feel funny drawing attention to allegations you can not prove. I know I did. Trust and honesty are relegated to the past especially when the future of news itself can be faked in both audio and video.

It looks as if creating uncertainty is a weapon in itself, but to what ends?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 02:38 PM

as a labour party member and union rep in workington constituency i'm always very interested in the views of people who have nothing but the best interests of the labour party at heart to give us advice on where we should go now. locally we have decided to abstain from the decisions on who should be the next leader, who should form the national executive and what our policy priorities should be. we have submitted a motion for the party to consider that we allow these decisions to be taken for us by the editorial board of the daily mail. please, if you have the time. forelock-tuggingly yours, dave spart and a few others.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 02:25 PM

Iains - nice to see you back out of attack mode...

yes.. I've never been a member of any political party,
but Labour values are more consistent with my own..

Values I'd see as universal to humanity,
not just the monopoly of a specific political party...

If Boris now has the power to keep the far right toffs and USA corporations at bay,
we'd hope his opportunism and pragmatism might lead him
to adopting moderate economic, employment, and social welfare policies
more in accord with the needs of his new working class voters...???

It'll be a tough ask of him, and not something we can expect
with too much optimism...??????

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 02:01 PM

Pfr no one benefits from the labour party collapse, Democracy is best served by a credible opposition party. A viable opposition tempers extremism, regardless of who is in the majority. For that to happen Labour needs to be a broad church - that is not the reality today.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 01:12 PM

Big Al Whittle wrote: Then its come up 'service not available'

If your browser has a 'Back' button, click on that and you should get your post back. It's on the top left on my screen, an arrow pointing to the left.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 01:06 PM

Just keep your post short and then it doesn't matter if you lose it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 12:50 PM

BWM - yes absolutely the right advice, which I also tell folks..

Sadly that don't stop me being a clot and typing in the mudcat message box... duh...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 12:48 PM

Al - you've always been one of the mudcatters I've most liked..
but recently something's got to you and soured your opinions...???

It's almost like your mudcat account has been hijacked...

But what you have been saying and getting upset about,
mirrors the general malaise amongst traditional working class labour voters,
which has lead to the party's severest electorial arse kicking...

Over the last few years I've been aware of the growing mass disaffection with labour,
becoming more and more hostile,
as ukip and tommy robinson supporters have exploited the problems
to recruit unhappy labour voters to their far right cause...
Which the tories have now obviously reaped the benefit of...

When I've engaged with folks on the internet,
my message has been; yes, labour is going off track,
but it would be better to stay and fight to bring the party back to it's working class roots,
than buggering off and becoming useful idiots for the far right...
Clearly, my attempts fell on deaf eyes and minds...