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BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Dave the Gnome 01 Nov 19 - 01:08 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Nov 19 - 01:12 PM
DMcG 02 Nov 19 - 05:20 AM
DMcG 02 Nov 19 - 05:47 AM
peteaberdeen 02 Nov 19 - 06:12 AM
peteaberdeen 03 Nov 19 - 04:56 AM
Iains 03 Nov 19 - 05:10 AM
Iains 03 Nov 19 - 06:10 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Nov 19 - 06:17 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Nov 19 - 09:05 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Nov 19 - 09:20 AM
Backwoodsman 03 Nov 19 - 05:22 PM
DMcG 06 Nov 19 - 02:25 AM
DMcG 06 Nov 19 - 02:32 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 19 - 03:12 AM
Iains 06 Nov 19 - 06:19 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Nov 19 - 06:43 AM
Mr Red 06 Nov 19 - 06:44 AM
DMcG 06 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Nov 19 - 07:35 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Nov 19 - 08:17 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Nov 19 - 08:46 AM
Iains 06 Nov 19 - 08:57 AM
Big Al Whittle 06 Nov 19 - 09:16 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 19 - 10:09 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 19 - 10:40 AM
Iains 06 Nov 19 - 11:20 AM
Doug Chadwick 06 Nov 19 - 11:40 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 19 - 11:46 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 19 - 11:48 AM
Doug Chadwick 06 Nov 19 - 11:49 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 19 - 11:59 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 06 Nov 19 - 01:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Nov 19 - 01:28 PM
DMcG 06 Nov 19 - 01:59 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Nov 19 - 02:07 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Nov 19 - 02:41 PM
Iains 06 Nov 19 - 03:11 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 06 Nov 19 - 03:48 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Nov 19 - 04:00 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Nov 19 - 07:17 PM
Iains 07 Nov 19 - 01:17 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Nov 19 - 01:55 PM
Jim Carroll 07 Nov 19 - 02:54 PM
Nigel Parsons 07 Nov 19 - 04:22 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Nov 19 - 05:45 PM
Big Al Whittle 07 Nov 19 - 06:00 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Nov 19 - 06:20 PM
DMcG 08 Nov 19 - 01:50 AM
DMcG 08 Nov 19 - 02:21 AM
The Sandman 08 Nov 19 - 03:20 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Nov 19 - 03:29 AM
Iains 08 Nov 19 - 04:12 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 19 - 05:14 AM
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Iains 08 Nov 19 - 05:41 AM
Jim Carroll 08 Nov 19 - 05:47 AM
Iains 08 Nov 19 - 05:49 AM
DMcG 08 Nov 19 - 05:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Nov 19 - 07:47 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM
bobad 08 Nov 19 - 08:10 AM
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DMcG 08 Nov 19 - 08:24 AM
gillymor 08 Nov 19 - 09:23 AM
Mossback 08 Nov 19 - 10:17 AM
Iains 08 Nov 19 - 10:22 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 Nov 19 - 10:36 AM
Iains 08 Nov 19 - 11:05 AM
DMcG 08 Nov 19 - 11:37 AM
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Backwoodsman 08 Nov 19 - 11:04 PM
DMcG 09 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM
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The Sandman 09 Nov 19 - 04:15 AM
DMcG 09 Nov 19 - 05:37 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM
DMcG 09 Nov 19 - 06:26 AM
Bonzo3legs 09 Nov 19 - 06:29 AM
Iains 09 Nov 19 - 06:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Nov 19 - 06:55 AM
peteaberdeen 09 Nov 19 - 07:53 AM
peteaberdeen 09 Nov 19 - 08:18 AM
DMcG 09 Nov 19 - 08:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Nov 19 - 03:00 AM
Iains 10 Nov 19 - 03:27 AM
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Dave the Gnome 10 Nov 19 - 06:07 AM
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Iains 10 Nov 19 - 07:36 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Nov 19 - 08:11 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Nov 19 - 10:08 AM
Iains 10 Nov 19 - 11:07 AM
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Iains 10 Nov 19 - 11:56 AM
Dave the Gnome 10 Nov 19 - 12:38 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Nov 19 - 12:41 PM
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Iains 10 Nov 19 - 01:30 PM
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Backwoodsman 10 Nov 19 - 02:20 PM
Iains 10 Nov 19 - 03:00 PM
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DMcG 11 Nov 19 - 05:23 AM
DMcG 11 Nov 19 - 05:27 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Nov 19 - 06:16 AM
DMcG 11 Nov 19 - 06:24 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 19 - 07:07 AM
DMcG 11 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM
bobad 11 Nov 19 - 07:58 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 19 - 08:43 AM
Mossback 11 Nov 19 - 09:36 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Nov 19 - 02:53 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 19 - 02:56 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Nov 19 - 04:12 PM
Mossback 11 Nov 19 - 05:49 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Nov 19 - 08:39 PM
Iains 12 Nov 19 - 04:37 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Nov 19 - 07:38 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Nov 19 - 08:26 AM
Iains 13 Nov 19 - 04:06 AM
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Iains 13 Nov 19 - 04:44 AM
DMcG 13 Nov 19 - 04:57 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 05:25 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Nov 19 - 06:06 AM
Iains 13 Nov 19 - 06:11 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Nov 19 - 06:25 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Nov 19 - 06:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 06:56 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Nov 19 - 07:01 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Nov 19 - 07:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Nov 19 - 07:08 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Nov 19 - 07:14 AM
Iains 13 Nov 19 - 09:01 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Nov 19 - 09:45 AM
DMcG 13 Nov 19 - 10:27 AM
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Backwoodsman 13 Nov 19 - 11:22 AM
Big Al Whittle 13 Nov 19 - 11:25 AM
Iains 13 Nov 19 - 11:31 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Nov 19 - 08:12 AM
Stanron 14 Nov 19 - 09:44 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Nov 19 - 03:16 PM
DMcG 14 Nov 19 - 03:34 PM
Backwoodsman 14 Nov 19 - 04:26 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Nov 19 - 05:23 PM
Big Al Whittle 14 Nov 19 - 09:57 PM
Backwoodsman 15 Nov 19 - 02:42 AM
DMcG 15 Nov 19 - 04:50 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Nov 19 - 05:19 AM
JHW 15 Nov 19 - 05:32 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Nov 19 - 05:35 AM
DMcG 15 Nov 19 - 05:38 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Nov 19 - 05:51 AM
Iains 15 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Nov 19 - 07:56 AM
DMcG 15 Nov 19 - 09:59 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Nov 19 - 06:20 PM
The Sandman 16 Nov 19 - 03:20 AM
DMcG 16 Nov 19 - 03:30 AM
Iains 16 Nov 19 - 03:40 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 19 - 03:42 AM
DMcG 16 Nov 19 - 03:51 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Nov 19 - 04:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Nov 19 - 05:29 AM
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DMcG 16 Nov 19 - 08:23 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Nov 19 - 08:59 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 19 - 10:37 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Nov 19 - 11:20 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Nov 19 - 12:07 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM
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DMcG 17 Nov 19 - 04:16 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Nov 19 - 05:31 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Nov 19 - 07:00 AM
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DMcG 17 Nov 19 - 09:48 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Nov 19 - 10:10 AM
Iains 17 Nov 19 - 11:39 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Nov 19 - 12:08 PM
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Jim Carroll 17 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM
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Backwoodsman 17 Nov 19 - 02:48 PM

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Subject: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 01:08 PM

May as well start it now. The brexit thread is getting a bit long in the tooth and although the election may be fought around brexit, there are many other issues at stake.

Good summary from Mark Steel in The Independant Main headline -

After nine years running us into the ground, the Tories declare that ‘Britain deserves better’ than them

Enjoy :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 01:12 PM

Boris's nightmare: "With friends like Donald and Nigel, who needs enemies..."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 05:20 AM

A comic, but fairly accurate, account of the Brexit Party launch from Tom Peck in the Independent. The italics are his.

====

And so we turn to Nigel Farage, standing on a stage in a church hall in Westminster, demanding Boris Johnson both rip up his withdrawal agreement – the one, single achievement of his time as prime minister – and also to stand down Tory candidates in dozens of seats, to allow his party a clear run at them.


Or else? Or else what? Or else Nigel Farage will put up Brexit Party candidates in every single constituency, and do exactly what he did last time round in 2015. Which, he even actually explained, was to steal Eurosceptic votes from Labour voters who just can’t countenance voting Conservative, and as a consequence hand David Cameron his majority.

That, for now, is the plan. Give me what you can’t possibly give me or else I’ll win you the election.

=====
Whether it is true that he would be able to steal more votes from Labour than from Conservatives in the Labour heartlands is not clear, but it is what Nigel threatened...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 05:47 AM

Another thing I was saying to my wife this morning: the broadcasters will be scrutinised with a much greater intensity than ever at this election. Many parties will want them to be an uncritical conduit of whatever spun messages they want to promote, and the parties will be up in arms about any occasion that the distortions in the messages are pointed out. Expect lots of Trumpish calls of fake media and bias.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 06:12 AM

i have such exciting news. after seeing the headline 'Workington Man to decide election' imagine my reaction to the news i was the Workington man chosen to make the decision'!

'thanks very much, brenda-now you and all your family can take a well-earned rest, choose one palace'

'well, not quite yet, pete, your job is to decide the election result not future policy - choose wisely'

'aye sorry - i was getting ahead of myself there'

'well-it's understandable in the circs'

anyway, we are going to have a labour/green coalition with a large majority. scotland will have a SNP/green split. the rest none'


ok, hope that saves everyone a lot of effort and argument - now we can all settle down and be nice to each other and the planet - peace comrades!


(if there is anyway of putting this on the new general election thread i would be grateful)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 04:56 AM

a friend was saying last night he reckoned it was bad that the tories were going to get an easy win. instinctively, i thought that was unlikely - but am i just getting my hopes up again? so doomed to be pissed off again. it's the hope that kills - i wish had the strength to just ignore the whole thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:10 AM

Boris's nightmare: "With friends like Donald and Nigel, who needs enemies..."


I think not!
Mr Trump won the presidency
The brexit party cleaned up in the EU elections.
Boris may pick up a few tips and thereby gain more popular support off populists.
A win win situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 06:10 AM

The lefty luvvies will not like this clip on the Marr program. Even the flat earthers among them need to wise up. The stunning selection of newspapers on the table makes the point well.


https://order-order.com/2019/11/03/mcdonnell-shown-jewish-newspapers-condemning-labour/#disqus_thread

From guido(of course)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 06:17 AM

Whoever wins, the UK will be run by idiots. johnson has become (arguably always was) a gold medal prick of the highest order, corbyn defies any description the English language cares to offer, and as for big tits swindon????????????


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM

swindon????? swinson!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 09:05 AM

A Scandinavian view, demonstrating the ridiculous horse-shit spread by the vile Tory liars about Corbyn - showing it up as the utter nonsense it most surely is.

An old (2017) piece, but no less true for that.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 09:20 AM

The period between now and Dec 12 will be a very long time for Boris Johnson. And you can bet your bottom dollar that this Sunday morning the Tory Party will be praying fervently that there'll be no flu epidemic before the election. That would just about cause the NHS to implode and expose the shabby way it's been treated since the Tories took over, resulting in a lack of beds, understaffing, ballooning waiting lists and the disastrous state of A&E departments. My sister has been highlighting the terrible state of crumbling school buildings. These are Labour's strong points to emphasise in the campaign. They mustn't let the issues raised by the likes of the dreadful Nicky Morgan and co, important though they are, usurp the headlines at the expense of the real issues that face the country as a whole. Threats and abuse are far more to do with the unregulated culture of social media and a vicious us-and-them ethos whipped up by the right-wing press, not to speak of the rotten example set by Boris Johnson and his baying moronic friends in the Commons.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:22 PM

And a very interesting opinion here from Prof. Sir John Curtice, the UK’s leading election expert, on the possible outcome of the election, and the very different effect the result may have on the two main parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:25 AM

I posted a comment on the Brexit thread about Andrew Bridgen's attempted defence of Jacob Rees-Mogg's comments on the Grenfell fire.

Here are Rees-Mogg's remarks:

if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do.


And Nigel's response to me:
RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons - PM
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 02:43 PM

It's all very well to portray it as guidance from patricians, but the thought process at the time would have been:
"I'm in a burning building, should I follow my instincts, and get out, or follow the advice of the fire brigade and stay put?"


While the fire brigade were giving what they believed (at the time) to be the best advice, it has since transpired that "I'm in a burning building, I need to get out" would have been the best response for most of the victims.
JRM may not have phrased that well, and it may be that there is no way to phrase it without risking offending someone. But, generally speaking, his comments were truthful.

And what has this to do with Brexit anyway?


I have several problems with that, Nigel. Firstly, we live life forwards, not retrospectively. Agreed, on this occasion the advice was tragically flawed. But no one knew that at the time: they just had to go on the situation as it was. Even now, we can't be absolutely certain that there would have been less lives lost if people had not followed the advice.

The second problem is that we are talking about a tower block full of people. If you are on the thirteenth floor, you have very little understanding of the situation on, say, the fourth floor. So you may well be walking *into* the fire in an attempt to walk away from it. You are certainly reducing the number of fire doors between you and the fire *if it is from the inside of the building, not the outside.*
Then you could well find yourself in a crush on the stairs with lots of other residents, some of whom may be in a state of panic. That risks 'Hillsborough' effects.

Thirdly, the fire brigade did not conjure this advice out of the air for the fun of it. It is based on much experience, and it is foolhardy, not common sense, to just ignore it.

But all of this is just background to what was really offensive in RM's remarks - that it was in some way the fault of the victims because they failed to use common sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:32 AM

And I said, I was originally talking about Andrew Bridgen, not Rees-Mogg, so is a link to Sky News' comments on Bridgen.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 03:12 AM

Victim-blaming. How low can those arrogant Tory pieces of shit go? And how can any decent, self-respecting person vote for them?

Defies belief.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 06:19 AM

Thirdly, the fire brigade did not conjure this advice out of the air for the fun of it. It is based on much experience, and it is foolhardy, not common sense, to just ignore it.

Yet the Piper alpha enquiry highlighted the fact that mustering in the galley was a very bad idea and caused deaths that might have been preventable. There comes a time when you have to make your own mind up about your response. Having worked on an adjacent platform and watched the smoke rising from Piper Alpha, staying put would be the last thing on my mind.

I fully agree with what Rees Mogg had to say. I believe the fire brigade had no platforms capable of reaching the uppermost floors of Grenfell tower. Telling people to stay put when the chance of external rescue was nil is extremely flawed advice and for that alone whoever issued the advice should be prosecuted for gross negligence,


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 06:43 AM

So the Tories doctored a video in an attempt to misleadingly show Keir Starmer in a bad light, and have spent hundreds of thousands of in taxpayer money to lie to universal credit claimants. It looks like we are going to be confronted by a campaign of Tory lies. These tactics are not only undemocratic, they are anti-democratic. I also note that the attacks on Corbyn are in full flow, one of the latest of which compares him with Stalin. Bring it on, Tories. These are the tactics that lost you your majority last time. More please.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 06:44 AM

SNP, DUP, LidDems and maybe the Greens in the context of the youth eco-movements and Generation X signing on to vote.

The parliament should be hung. And may very well be. Plus ça change? We are living in interesting times.

But the majority of votes are split four ways now, at least.

Brexshit yes/no
& left/right

Throw in a soupçon of tactical voting, and ...... I leave it hanging


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM

So Alun Cairns resigns as Welsh Secretary minutes before Parliament is dissolved for the election. Is he still a candidate? If not, it is hardly a great sacrifice, is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 07:35 AM

Don't blame Parliament for doing its job, which is patently NOT to be a poodle to the Tory brexit attempts. The divisiveness of brexit in the country at large is accurately reflected in Parliament. In spite of persistent Tory attempts to undermine it, Parliamentary democracy is in a pretty good state at the moment. Which can't exactly be said for this botched and damaging Tory brexit.

I see that the Tory Welsh secretary has had to go, after being embroiled in a scandal in which he lied about what he knew about a discredited aide. The lying ads about universal credit have been banned by the ASA. And Boris has had to scupper his plan to use the civil service, whose wages we taxpayers pay, to produce numbers for him so that he can attack Labour spending plans. And Charlie Elphicke, embroiled in his own sex scandal, is still working for the Tory campaign despite being suspended from the party. Desperate times!   

The Grenfell issue will keep coming back to bite the Tories and could have a huge impact on this campaign. I note that Tory MPs at the final PMQ laughed at Corbyn's green tie, apparently not realising that he was wearing it that day as a tribute to the Grenfell victims. Oops!

Deceit, arrogance, entitlement, lies and more lies. The Tory way, given a new lease of life by the disgraceful Johnson.

And now they're comparing (unfavourably, of course) Corbyn with Pol Pot, Idi Amin and Uncle Joe. Bring it on!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM

Lies and evasion from Mr. Not-so-Cleverly.

What a bloody plonker!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 08:17 AM

Whoever wins we get a despicable wanker, do we not!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 08:46 AM

God, I love Piers Morgan and I hate Piers Morgan...No, I love him but I hate him...But...

Ah, shit!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 08:57 AM

Polls all over the shop - no surprises there!
The zombie Parliament finally dissolved.

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 09:16 AM

when the chimps at Monkey World wanted a new alpha male to lead the group, They got together and killed Rodney. The staff just found him dead one morning.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 10:09 AM

More Stupendous Revelations. No doubt the working-class Tories would believe it...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 10:40 AM

Kay Burley interviews an empty chair on Sky TV when Cone-Head Not-So-Cleverly chickens out...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:20 AM

However the true story is: Kay Burley ’empty chaired’ James Cleverly this morning and the video is doing the rounds on social media, with almost 200,000 views it has been – shared by left-wing figures and Labour activists like Owen Jones. The only problem is Cleverly wasn’t booked to come on her show…
The true story from Guido, of course!

https://order-order.com/2019/11/06/oh-kay-burley-empty-chairs-cleverly-wasnt-booked-show/

"Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:40 AM

I know you like to make up insulting names for those you don't approve of, BWM, but who does "Cone-Head" refer to?

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:46 AM

Read the post.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:48 AM

So Kay Burley lied when she said in the video that he was booked to appear, and was fifteen feet away from her, refusing to appear, as she spoke?

If so, she’d make a good Tory politician.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:49 AM

It's OK BWM. Between typing my question and hitting the submit button, I went off to make a pot of tea. I have now read the response from Ians, referring to James Cleverly.

My interest in your post stopped when I got to the Cone-Head insult so I hadn't noticed that you had worked in another "comic" reference later in the sentence.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:59 AM

My interest in your opinion stopped at your attempt to insult me.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 01:10 PM

My poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "On the 2001 Election"


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 01:28 PM

It's started then. The greased albino piglet used both of his unelected string puller's phrases in his election starting address. Has it really come to this? People would rather hear TV style catch phrases than sensible policies given in a serious manner. Politics has become a reality TV show where the only winners are the rich and powerful. How depressing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 01:59 PM

I noticed that as well, Dave. I am sure we will hear them both hundreds if not thousands of times in the next few weeks.

As an abstract discussion 'dither and delay' is a much smarter slogan than 'strong and stable'. As we saw, the problem with the latter slogan is that you can mess it up, or have it messed up around you by P45 pranksters. Because it describes a quality you claim to have. But even the most incompetent Tory can barely mess up 'dither and delay' because it is not about the speaker, but the other party. Also, both of them are statements about the future, whereas 'strong and stable' leaks into the present.

As I say, quite smart. As is Labour's 'get Brexit sorted' because it dilutes the 'Get Brexit done' and sows confusion in the minds of people who do not follow politics closely.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:07 PM

At least "For the many, not the few" has been a consistent slogan and does actually tell us something of policy.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:41 PM

"Grefell Tower"
Wonderful cartoon in The Times showing Rees Mogg spraweled flat, as he was during Parliament's most important debate, like a superior despot - this time in the gutter
THat sums up perfectly this lot's attitude to those who elected them - everything that happens to them is their own fault for being poor

No surprise that these who showed themselves unwuilling to give the survivors the use of vacant property rather than upset the status quo should continue to support this cartoon caricature
So far in the debate, when people ask fro the right to homes jobs and education for their kids, Tories have described these please as "envy politics" - as if anybody would with occupy the same place in society as these greedy degenerates
The lie of health expenditure was inevitable - as was pointed out in a debate this morning, there will be no extra money being put into health but in fact the results of expenditure cuts over the last few years will be promised to be softened slightly (until after the election)
They have no intention of addressing the causes of crime - the continuing alienation of the poor - instead, the g' old US solution of bigger and better jails
You can bet your last on arming the police isn't that far way
Brexit has proved itself a total fiasco, so all they can hope for there is people will vote to end the war of attrition it has become (The LIb Dems appear to have shot themselves in the foot by apparently treating the people with the same contempt as the Tories with partonoising "don't worry you little heads - we'll make nasty Brexit go away without your help
What a ***** shower
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 03:11 PM

It was all progressing without problems for a couple of days! I wonder why that was?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 03:48 PM

"the greased albino piglet"...he'd probably like that language, Dave!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 04:00 PM

It was his colleagues in the party that coined it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 07:17 PM

Great start for the Johnson's Junta that the Welsh Conservatives are entering a General election totally leaderless as a Welsh Cabinet Minister has been forced to resign for his involvement in interfering in a rape trial and there is nobody to replace him
It is totally unprecedented that any party should lose a senior minister after on the same day the former Prime Minister visits the queen to confirm an election, but this really is something else
The rape victim has said that not one of his party colleagues has contacted her for this appalling behaviour - shows the type of people Britain is being asked to elect are having to vote for   
Great to be back - just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water - eh-what !!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:17 PM

Great start to Labour's electioneering.
The labour second in command has just quit.
Former Labour MP John Woodcock joined Ian Austin in calling on voters to back the Conservatives, because Jeremy Corbyn could not be trusted on national security and is unfit to lead the country.

You could not make it up.

Yet more spiffing news:New Speaker Sir Lindsay has confirmed he will ban MPs trying to tear up the Commons rule book in future, and reverse Bercow’s reforms that allowed Remain MPs to block Brexit. Against the advice of constitutional experts at the time…

Speaking on Nick Robinson’s Political Thinking Podcast, Hoyle said his approach will make it much harder for a future House of Commons to resist the government of the day; specifically around whether MPs can amend business motions that set the way in which the Commons structures its debates.

Latest polls:

YouGov: CON: 36% (-2) LAB: 25% (-) LDEM 17% (+1) BREX: 11% (-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:55 PM

For those discussing the rape trial which led to Alan Cairns resigning his position. It takes a little searching to confirm that there was actually a rape. The offender has been jailed for 5 years at a re-trial. details here
I may normally side with the Conservatives, but in this case, the truth needs to be available so that people can make informed comments.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 02:54 PM

" It takes a little searching to confirm that there was actually a rap"
It was the judge who castigated your hero and it was up to the court to decide whatever it was rape - not you
The bastard you are defending stopped a pssible rape victim from the right to put the man she accused on trial
Is that your idea of aa conservative brave new world give Johnson's promises on law and order?
Yours is a scurrilous defense of an evil act
You should be well used to doing that considering the serial behavior of your glorious leader
im Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 04:22 PM

Jim:
" It takes a little searching to confirm that there was actually a rap"
It was the judge who castigated your hero and it was up to the court to decide whatever it was rape - not you
The bastard you are defending stopped a pssible rape victim from the right to put the man she accused on trial
Is that your idea of aa conservative brave new world give Johnson's promises on law and order?
Yours is a scurrilous defense of an evil act

I thought better of you. I have not defended this.
Read what I wrote, not what you wanted to read into it.
The point of this is that, because of the actions of Ross England, the original trial was called off. It was not for me, or the judge, or that court to say whether there was, in truth, a case to be answered.

I was not defending Ross England, but making clear that there has been a re-trial, at which the original defendant was found guilty, and sentenced to 5 years.

If there is anything 'scurrilous' about this, it is your attack on me, when all I was doing was setting the record straight, and confirming that this was NOT a case where I would side with the offender.


Try reading carefully before responding.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 05:45 PM

An unscientific snapshot coming up.

I had to take my daughter to the fracture clinic at the Royal Cornwall Hospital this morning. We were seen promptly and were treated with kindness and friendly smiles all round. But the staff, from tbe receptionist to the healthcare assistants to the nurses to the consultant, were clearly overworked. One nurse told us that he had a huge queue of patients to see. The receptionist was, at one point, clearly overwhelmed and couldn't keep up. She was dealing with a ten-deep queue of patients trying to book in and, at the same time, the anxious phone calls from confused patients. I saw two nurses running in the corridor to get from one patient to another, not because of any emergencies but because there were too many patients and not enough of them...

Welcome to Tory Britain. Understaffing, under-investment and a cynical disregard for ordinary people. A&E departments overrun. Operations cancelled wholesale. Waiting lists off the scale. It doesn't affect Tories, of course. They have their queue-jumping contracts...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 06:00 PM

That's a very short poem WAV - rather cryptic.

I'm not good at cryptic - still keep at it, one day you'll come up with The Charge of the Light Brigade.

I'm jealous. I can't do poems.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 06:20 PM

As you may have seen on another thread, the better half has just had a major operation. The staff, bar none, were wonderful. But, to concur with Steve, there was just not enough of them. Particularly over the weekend. This is a direct result of Tory cuts and wage caps. They are now making matters worse by trying to rid us of the immigrants that the NHS rely on to run hospitals. Boris continues to lie. As long as the gullible continue to fall for it things will get worse. Labour are the only party that can turn that round.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 01:50 AM

while on this theme, the good and the bad of the NHS. My wife had a hip operation due on 5th December. We were told yesterday that it has been postponed to 6th February because of lack of funds.

But for comparison, a little over two weeks ago my nephew went to his GP with bleeding from his bowel. They have discovered major cancer needing 20 inches of bowel removed, plus 10 lymph nodes and potentially part of his prostate and pancreas. He has a 6-8 hour operation today to remove this section and see what can be done.

So while he may not live through this, or if he does not for very long afterwards, the NHS is doing everything humanly feasible to sort it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 02:21 AM

I suppose I need to tie that last post more explicitly to the election. Ok, the cancellation of my wife's operation was explicitly put down to funding problems. I don't like it, of course, but we do recognise that the funding can't be unlimited, so we can tolerate some postponements as long as it is a small proportion of the operations. Last year there was a moratorium on all non-urgent operations, such as hip replacements, because of funding limitations. That is not acceptable. So we need to have increases in funding sufficient to prevent those. We are unlikely to have a repeat this year, but I suspect that is prevented more because the Government does not want that in the news during an election than because of anything else.

Then my nephew's operation. It hardly bears thinking about how much that would cost if we lived in the USA. Even with insurance, it might exceed a limit on cover. Promises that the NHS is not for sale do not impress me, because we have had lots of promises about lots of things that have not come into being. And any promise can be broken if there are financial issues, under the umbrella of 'taking hard decisions'. As a minimum I would want such guarantees to be written into laws so that Parliament would at least have to explicitly vote to overturn them. (And of course the NHS is not a single thing - it is possible to privatise aspects while claiming the NHS as a whole has not been sold.)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:20 AM

bonzo mentioned big tits swindon , is this a religous cult if so can i join, big tits swindon,
wav could you write a poem about big tits swindon


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:29 AM

"I thought better of you. I have not defended this."
Did you not suggest it might not have been rape ?
You and yours defend the behaviour of these scum-buckets with your silence - you do runners whenever their antics are pointed out
You present yourself as a Government supporter - you need to say why when you take into consideration the damage thay have already done to Britain

I watched with pleasure last night as the Tory speaker on Question Time was slated by speaker after speaker from the audience - she remained totally silent on everything too
That seems the only way that your Tories are going to win anything
Every time you open your mouths exposes a fresh horror for Britain

I really would think better of you if you actually participated in this discussion - this forum 9and the country) actually needs an honest opinion from a Tory Hman Being - god knows, there aren't ant in Westminster
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 04:12 AM

Meanwhile back in the real world it is all going swimmingly well for compo and his coterie of clowns?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1201591/general-election-jeremy-corbyn-video-labour-manchester-john-mcdonnell-liverpool-brexit
From their electioneering twaddle:
Labour will “borrow to invest” on an unprecedented scale.
Labour will shift the economic balance of power north
Labour’s borrowing will pay for itself

First they have to try a bit of conjuration to make the magic money tree a veritable forest. Good Luck with that one !


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:14 AM

I get sick of hearing from disaffected and militant ex-party members about what they think of their former leader. I don't want to know what some idiot who's been a Tory all his life thinks of Boris just now, thanks, or what a near-insane ex-Labour man thinks of Jezza (near-insane because no sentient being who has been Labour all his life could even remotely conceivably recommend voting for Johnson). These demented people make for colourful storylines but they merely inject a dose of shallow tabloid sensationalism, worse because the BBC, etc, legitimises them by the way they "adopt a serious approach." I'll make my own mind up from the mainstream campaigning about what I think of the party leaders, not from the bleatings of these idiotic self-marginalisers. You might have thought that the Beeb would learned from the fiasco of "giving an equal platform" to climate-change-denying frauds such as Nigel Lawson.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:15 AM

I really must wear my reading glasses


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:41 AM

Could your view be a tad jaundiced by Labour MPs recommending Labour supporters vote for the Tories?
This is quite a departure from the norm, even for labour! Hilarious.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:47 AM

"I get sick of hearing from disaffected and militant ex-party members about what they think of their former leader. "
Me too - especially right wing Israel supporters who backed Blair's 'Weapons of Mass Destruction bloodbath (suggest a trip to the current film 'Secret Society' will open a few eyes over that fiasco)

Isn't it interesting how see that the only thing these twots have to say about Corbyn's plan to alleviate the damage done to the less well off ois how much it will cost the taxpayer
Not unlike describing attempts to temporarily house Grenfell Tower survivors as "an attack on property ownership"
You've got to give it to these fellers - they certainly know where their priorities lie
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:49 AM

Not to be outdone by the Tories’ damaging coverage yesterday, Labour has had two candidate crises this morning. And it’s not even 10 am…

First out of the gate was LBC’s exclusive that their Liverpool West Derby candidate – a shoo-in at the election – has made a number of “foul-mouthed” posts against female politicians; including calling for a Tory baroness to be “hit the c*** where it hurts”, and another where he called Esther McVey a “b*****d”. Presumably McDonnell will defend him…

Then over in Clacton, Labour’s candidate, Gideon Bull, has just quit whilst denying she called a Jewish councillor a “shylock” in a council meeting. Bull also follow’s Labour’s Gordon candidate who quit yesterday after comparing Israel to a child abuser.

Full details and comments from the bastion of veracity Guido

https://order-order.com/2019/11/08/corbyns-candidate-crisis-continues-clacton/


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:54 AM

Asked if he would legislate to protect the NHS from US intervention, the PM said: 

We can do free trade deals with countries around the world but under us the NHS is not for sale. It’s not going to be on any kind of international trade negotiation. 
This is pure Loch Ness Monster, Bermuda Triangle stuff. 

The NHS, free at the point of use, is a fantastic service and we not only believe in it, but are investing more in it than at any time in recent memory and we’ll continue to do so.




which is a complicated way of saying no we won't legislate. Whatever we may believe at the moment, at a later date we or someone who comes after us can do what they like.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 07:47 AM

I really don't understand how anyone can believe a single word the GAP we have for PM says. From Turkey joining the EU to the election being forced on him by MPs not backing his plan, the words that run from his mouth like sewage from a drain are complete shite. Yet they keep supporting him. What is going on?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM

GAP?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:10 AM

75% of British Jews supported Labour following WWII.

7% of British Jews support Labour following Corbyn's election.

Let that sink in.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:22 AM

Just seen on BBC News that The Nicotine-Stained Man-Frog has announced that he can’t even be arsed to come up with an Election Manifesto for the BrexShit so-called ‘Party’.

He really is a lazy c**t, isn’t he? Why would anyone with a working brain vote for him?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 08:24 AM

No idea either what GAP meant, but the free dictionary acronyms has some possibilities

Great American Products
Generally Accepted Practices .. maybe not.
Global Atmospheric Pollution
Grant Awards Program
Gay and Proud .. don't think it's that
Group for Alternative Policies ... perhaps
General Area Plot.

======

But the most odd one seemed to be their claim GAP is an acronym for 'Integrated Taxonomic Information System.' Don't see it, myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 09:23 AM

Greased Albino Pig, keep up boys.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 10:17 AM

Yet they keep supporting him. What is going on?

Perhaps the brain-dead reality denying 40% of the U.S. population that still support The Trumpshit would have some insight.......


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 10:22 AM

But despite all the plots he is still President and likely to be re elected. Obviously not all share the views expressed on this forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 10:36 AM

Jim:
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:29 AM

"I thought better of you. I have not defended this."
Did you not suggest it might not have been rape ?
You and yours defend the behaviour of these scum-buckets with your silence - you do runners whenever their antics are pointed out


NO! I did not suggest it might not have been rape. I made clear that it was rape, as the defendant had been given a 5 year sentence following a re-trial.

My short post was not that easy to misunderstand, but you have done so twice now. Try to read, and think, before responding with any more insults.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 11:05 AM

A huge new YouGov poll of over 11,500 voters shows the Tories leading Labour by 14%, with the Lib Dems only 3% behind Corbyn – a result that, if repeated in the election, could see Boris win a three-figure majority.

The poll also shows the SNP are on course for a big win in Scotland, taking 42% of the vote and all but three of the Tories seats. YouGov also sees the Lib Dems beating Labour in their former Scottish heartlands.

In even more dire reading for Corbyn, YouGov polled personality traits for him and Boris, and found the PM’s likeability is 25% higher than Corbyn’s.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 11:37 AM

Here is the result for my ward in 2017

Royston Smith - Con   - 21,773 = majority 31
Simon Letts    - Lab   - 21,742
Eleanor Bell   - LD    - 1,421
Kim Rose       - UKIP - 1,122
Rosie Pearce   - Green -    725

Everything is going to hinge on whether the Brexit Party can take more votes from Conservative than the LibDems can from Labour. So I either want LibDem to do spectacularly well to increase their votes nearly twentyfold - I think we can agree that looks unlikely - or do far worse then the Brexit Party.

National polls will not greatly influence my voting decision.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:08 PM

Just looked at your MP's voting history. He's not very nice, is he?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:12 PM

Just looked at your MP's voting history. He's not very nice, is he?

Nope. And he came bottom of a survey by the Independent based on how active they were in terms of interventions, questions submitted, etc.   His response? Someone has to be bottom of such lists.

And when he has responded to emails, he is usually exceptionally patronising.

So all in all, I repeat: Nope.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:30 PM

"Try to read, and think, before responding with any more insults."
If I mistook what you said I apologise Nigel
Hw about you commenting on the calibre of MPs like the feller who resigned out your Prime minister who treats women and non-whites like second class citizens - (to ve used and abused -- in that order)
Sorry again
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:31 PM

Ok .......... it is perhaps not my place to interject on this, but I think Jim you owe Nigel an apology.

If you READ his first post he states quite clearly, at least to everyone else, he is not supporting Ross England.

You, in your attack everyone who disagree with me mode, completely disregarded this.

Engage brain before engaging fingers perhaps !

I shall now sit back and wait to be attacked in a similar fashion.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 12:56 PM

"but I think Jim you owe Nigel an apology"
I hope we cross-posted Rag - I just have

"he is not supporting Ross England."
Delighted to hear it - he should be demanding that his (The Tory Party) contact the victim and offer their sincere apologies (and maybe some recompense) for that fact that it was one of their leading members who deprived her of her day in court
I have no doubt that, if it was a leading Labour figure guilty of shuch behaviour he would be in the from those demanding that a pillory be set up outside Westminster
It seems fairly obvious that those at the top have been fully aware of these shenanigans for eighteen months e and the only reason they have seen the light of day now is that there is a dodgy election in the offing
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 02:14 PM

Louise Webberley, Labour’s candidate in the Leave-voting seat of Totnes, is not exactly going for outreach approach; sharing material on Facebook saying “lower income, less educated voiceless people are so much easier to control.” Labour came second in the seat in 2017…

Her forthright approach is unlikely to gain her much support.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:10 PM

A link to the rest of the post could well be enlightening I suspect.

Someone is WELL known for selective posts and lack of links.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 03:16 PM

You would not be having a go at Mr Shaw would you?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 04:30 PM

Once again, our Extreme Right-Wing Plant has failed to indicate that his post is a direct quote from his boss...

https://order-order.com/2019/11/08/labour-candidate-poor-less-educated-easier-control/?fbclid=IwAR1m_gggNsCMqFr-qFyx52ivadpjRQpv

Disgusting dishonesty. But then, what else would we expect from the Extreme Right Wing but dishonesty and deceit?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:51 PM

OK, lads - all of yis copy this out 100 times:

I promise I will not engage with or respond to Iains' puerile provocation.

Provocation puerile Iains' to respond or with engage not will I promise I.

etc......


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 05:58 PM

Ignore him. He's not worth it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Nov 19 - 11:04 PM

I do wonder why Johnson needs six weeks to read the report on Russian meddling in our elections when he believed it would only take our MPs forty-eight hours to study and assimilate all the implications of his EU Withdrawal Agreement?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM

A lot of the press is reporting the latest YouGov study of voter intentions. Rather less point out that the 'The fieldwork, conducted from 17 October – 4 November' was before the campaign started. So it is a useful baseline to judge the effectiveness of the campaigns against, but like all polls so long before the actual vote, it needs to be handled with considerable caution.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 03:52 AM

In fact, checking a few dates, the fieldwork began before 'Super Saturday' and much of it was before an election was announced. So it is a bit of a mixed bag of intentions: some taken when the PM was still asserting that his deal would get through by 31 Oct without an election and some when it was clear it would not and we were having an election, for example.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 04:15 AM

no overall majority seems to be favourite odds


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 05:37 AM

Not sure about that, Sandman. If you look at actual betting shop odds, they think a Tory win most likely. I won't post a link as such, because the figures change all the time, but sites like

https://www.oddschecker.com/insight/politics

can show the current odds. These may or may not align with what pundits reckon.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM

"Failinng to deal wityh Antisemitism" seems to be a running theme in this election
Shortly after the claim was manufactured Muslim leaders complained to the Press that there was significant anti-Muslim problem in the Tory Party - the Tories have so far refused to address that problem
THIS IS HOW THE TORIES DEAL WITH SUCH CLAIMS

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:26 AM

And following that, in the news today Tory peer rounds on Conservatives criticising Labour over antisemitism for their own failure to tackle Islamophobia

And, also whitesplaining.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:29 AM

There was a 19% swing to big tits swinson's party in Thursday's Croydon council bye bye election - a good pointer. I know of many tories and labour people who will vote lib dem on Dec12!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:37 AM

A manufactured claim would hardly have sufficient grounds for an investigation by an official watchdog. The national front is the only other political organisation to be so investigated. Denial in the face of such compelling evidence seems the hallmark of a ???. As also is trying a spuruious counter argument of whataboutism.

The bookies favourites line up as follows:
PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

    No overall: 10/11 (5/6)
    Tories: 11/10 (6/5)
    Labour: 14/1 (14/1)
    Brexit Party: 150/1 (150/1)
    Lib Dems: 150/1 (150/1)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 06:55 AM

I know it is banging my head on a wall but would you please stop with the sexism, Bonzo.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 07:53 AM

i find it amazing that we are discussing, yet again, labour's response to their supposed anti-racism. or even the tories non-attempts to deal with anti-muslims in the party. when the huge elephant in the room is the hostile environment for foreigners which has been tory party policy for about a decade. their disgusting attitude to the windrush generation is an ongoing scandal yet gets very little press coverage these days. official tory party to attack british citizens! we don't even need to start on grenfell....

(i just read (again) about 'corbyn's anti-semitism' and (again) the first piece of evidence wheeled out was him liking a painting 25 years ago. it's clear that with the help of a few anti-labour people this is one piece of shit they threw at corbyn which seems to have stuck. i've never seen or heard anti-semitism in the labour party/trade union meetings i've been to and had any such bigotry come out i am confident it would have been immediately jumped upon by the majority of anti-racists in the room. by the way - i never saw those guys in the picture as jewish - just thought they were caricature greedy capitalists)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 08:18 AM

'writing in the telegraph, david blunkett despairs about the bullying, anti-semitism blah, blah f****g blah.....' as an ordinary labour party member i despair at the way that prominent labour party members take it in turns at election times to offer their support to the tory party by sticking the knife in Labour. despair all you like blunkett, hodge, mandelson or whoever, but is it too much to ask that you despair in the comfort of your own conservative clubs? don't you think of the morale of thousands of party members who are working hard to get rid of the tories and how depressing it is to read your sour grumbling . to the telegraph. for money.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 19 - 08:20 AM

Fair point, pete. But the reason it is being discussed is that the Tories see it as a major weapon against Labour. Make no mistake (as the other thread would have it), this is not because the Tories are particularly bothered about the Jewish community. Their primary interest is making Labour less attractive to all the well meaning non-Jewish people who rightly think antisemitism is appalling. That there is a Jewish community which has, in large part, voted Labour in the past and may not this time is a welcome bonus, but it is not, in itself, as significant. Those in London, for example, are more likely to switch from Labour to LibDem, not Conservative, especially if they are remainers. This is not about the Conservatives winning votes, just trying to make Labour lose as many as possible.

What you say about the Tory attitude to foreigners is quite right, but it will need Labour or other party to force that into the news against those parts of the media that support the Tories and/or Brexit and are quite happy to keep the focus elsewhere, thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:00 AM

The problem with that DMcG is that a lot of people have that same attitude towards foreigners. If Labour switch the focus to that it could win the Tories some votes :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:27 AM

Labour, You have a problem!
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-antisemitism-corbyn-watson-formby-jewish-ehrc-investigation-a9006466.html


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:45 AM

Richard Ferrer - editor of pro Israeli Jewish News
There goes that link between Antisemitism and the Right Wing Israeli Government again - every accusation confirms where this nonsense of "antisemitism with the Jewish People removed" is coming from
Jim Carroll

Libel lawsuit and criticism
In February 2018, Jewish News lost a libel case brought by Baroness Warsi over allegations that she has sought to excuse the actions of Islamic State terrorists. The article also claimed she had objected to action being taken against British Muslims who murder and rape for the group, which Warsi said was “untrue and offensive”. Jewish News accepted that the article was false: it apologised and was ordered to pay damages of £20,000 and legal costs.[3]

In August 2018, the Jewish News Foreign Editor, who had worked for the paper for six years and been editor on a Jewish news TV channel, took personal leave after describing the paper's coverage of Jeremy Corbyn as "repulsive" in its use of "vicious personal phrases" to "trash" a "dedicated anti-racist". The Foreign Editor said that the paper had an obsession with the Labour Party, leading to "overheated rhetoric", and failed to give a voice to Jews who think differently.[4]


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 06:07 AM

100!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 06:13 AM

Happy Birthday - you don't look a day over 99
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 07:36 AM

There are some quite happy to go Tory bashing but appear unable to see the problems in their own backyard. Copious amounts of red ink does not negate this reality.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 08:11 AM

There are some quite happy to go Corbyn-bashing over a few people with hurt feelings and an agenda, but appear unconcerned about the problem of the suppression of reports on Russian donations to the Tory party, or Russian interference in our elections...

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-blocked-report-naming-tory-donors-linked-to-kremlin-2019-11?r=US&IR=T

Copious amounts of ‘Seaman’ Staines’s propaganda does not negate this reality.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 10:08 AM

Just in case this was missed

In August 2018, the Jewish News Foreign Editor, who had worked for the paper for six years and been editor on a Jewish news TV channel, took personal leave after describing the paper's coverage of Jeremy Corbyn as "repulsive" in its use of "vicious personal phrases" to "trash" a "dedicated anti-racist". The Foreign Editor said that the paper had an obsession with the Labour Party, leading to "overheated rhetoric", and failed to give a voice to Jews who think differently.[4]
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 11:07 AM

The Jewish Chronicle however Has this to say about Corbyn:
Throughout his career, he has allied with and supported antisemites such as Paul Eisen, Stephen Sizer and Raed Salah. He has described organisations like Hamas, whose founding charter commits it to the extermination of every Jew on the planet, as his “friends”. He has laid a wreath to honour terrorists who have murdered Jews. He has insulted “Zionists” — the word used by antisemites when they mean “Jew” because they think it allows them to get away with it

https://www.thejc.com/comment/leaders/to-all-our-fellow-british-citizens-1.491812
Magic grandad is a rather nasty piece of work.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 11:28 AM

Jewish Ccronicle's stated policy
Although JC's support of Zionism somewhat decreased after Greenberg's death, it has consistently devoted considerable space to Israel and Zionism.
Under Leopold Greenberg, The JC was hostile to the Reform and Liberal movements in Britain. Over the years, attention shifted from Orthodoxy in Anglo-Jewry to developments in Progressive Judaism, while becoming more critical of the Orthodox position on halakhic issues.
In July 2019, a Jewish Chronicle editorial declared that "We want to see (the current Labour Party leadership) removed from any significant role in public life."

Isreal political interference again, I'm afraid
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 11:56 AM

Isreal political interference again, I'm afraid

I think not. It is merely you being a racist that refuses to see what is widely acknowledged to be a problem of Labours' leadership.
Even the Guardian recognises that there is a problem
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/11/bbc-panorama-antisemitism-labour-racism-jeremy-corbyn
Even Panorama created a documentary of anti semitism


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7eEQMyzLeo

The Guardian one day ago: "But the most recent poll found that 87% regard Corbyn as an antisemite, meaning an anti-Jewish racist."
When in a hole it is best to stop digging.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 12:38 PM

Lads, lads! You should know better by now :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 12:41 PM

Jonathon Friedland
Israel, Zionism and antisemitism
A leading liberal Zionist in the UK

Whoops
No Jews, no antisemitism
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 01:00 PM

Every single claim of antisemitism has been linked directly to Israel ot its supporters - it is antisemitic by definition to link the actions of the state of Israel to the Jewish people as a whole
The sharp increase in world antisemitsm is directly linked to the fact that, thanks to Israel's efforts it is now impossible to tell the difference between criticism of Israel and persecution of the Jewish People
Will whover is making these claims please stop using the Jewish People as human shields or right-wing political weapons
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 01:30 PM

Will whover is making these claims please stop using the Jewish People as human shields or right-wing political weapons

OH Dear!
1)The Equality and Human Rights Commission think there is a problem
2) The BBC documentary thinks there is a problem
3) The guardian thinks there is a problem
4)The Telegraph thinks there is a problem
5) The Jewish chronical thinks there is a problem.
6).................
7)Even Lord Blunkett has described his “despair” at the “anti-Semitism and thuggery” in the Labour Party and suggested Jeremy Corbyn is on course for a 1983-style drubbing at the polls.

But the troublemaker from Claire reckons there is not a problem!

It is not much of a contest to see who is the fool.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 02:04 PM

For fuck's sake, gang - not this "antisemitism" wrangle yet again. What is this, Groundhog Day?

You know its bullshit, I know its bullshit, virtually every sentient being with even a grain of intelligence on the planet knows its bullshit.

Troll Central LLC (i.e. Inanes, BooBad and HirsuteBruce) will NEVER ADMIT THAT ITS BULLSHIT.

Give it a rest, already!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 02:20 PM

Amen, Mossy.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:00 PM

So Mossback pray tell why is an official government body holding an enquiry into the allegations.
FYI The Equality and Human Rights Commission is a non-departmental public body in England and Wales, established by the Equality Act 2006 with effect from 1 October 2007. The Commission has responsibility for the promotion and enforcement of equality and non-discrimination laws in England, Scotland and Wales.
When the enquiry completes we will know if the accusations have substance.
Trying to deny the accusations when the official enquiry is in progress is not the action of a sentient being.
You will be trying to tell me a government organisation is staffed by trolls next. Get real!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 03:03 PM

I notice my response asking for the claims
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 08:11 AM to be substantiated has been deleted!

More political moderation?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 19 - 05:13 PM

More shit-clearing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 05:23 AM

Apparently someone in number 10 has referred to Nigel Farage as Frodo Baggins, in the context of him succumbing to the temptation of the ring at the final moments on Mt Doom, and so on the point of failing on the mission he has worked so long for at the last moment.


Unfortunately I suspect more people will think of Frodo as the only guy who could successuly rescue all the world from the ultimate evil. Perhaps not what the 'spokesman' intended.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 05:27 AM

And for those who know the book, rather than the films, perhaps not a good idea to point out destroying the ring brought devastation on his homeland ...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 06:16 AM

But possibly worth pointing out, as those who know the books will confirm, in the end Frodo could not bring himself to destroy the Ring. It was Gollum who brought about its end.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 06:24 AM

As my first post said, Nigel, that was the context that the spokesman intended for the statement. I followed that by saying it was probably not how people thought of Frodo.


I am a bit surprised, Nigel, I admit. I expected you to point out that it was not so much destroying the ring as the quest to destroy the ring that impacted his homeland. Still, let's leave this as a Brexit thread than change it into some sort of online book club.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 07:07 AM

"Still, let's leave this as a Brexit thread"
Wot - and miss a free trip to Mordor !!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM

From live feeds: Farage says Brexit party will not fight Tories in 317 seats


I may be wrong, but I suspect this may turn out to be the most significant move in the entire campaign.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 07:58 AM

Even though Greg and friends are in denial, Jeremy Corbyn isn't: Jeremy Corbyn admits his Labour Party has an anti-Semitism problem


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 08:43 AM

Bobad
Israel's ploy of describing its policies - ethnic cleansing in particular, as "Jewish" is the direct cause of the sahrp rise in Antisemitism - that is not just confined to The Labour Party but is happening throughout the world
Israel has not only refused to condemn antisemites like Trump and Orban, but is welcoming them as supporters
Your refusal to even comment on that calls into question your own suppoert for the Jewish People and sgests your interest is more politically driven rather than concern for the Jews
HERE
AND HERE
HERE TOO

I don't suppose this interests you but is sure puts your concern for the Jewish People where it belongs
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 09:36 AM

Jesus, Jim - you're completely hopeless, aintcha? Stuff a sock in yer gob, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 02:53 PM

He isn't worth it, Jim. And the sheer hypocrisy of accusing someone ELSE of having two identities. Bwahahahaha!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 02:56 PM

"Stuff a sock in yer gob, eh?"
Why ?
Do you dispute any of that - if so, what ?
I get tired of me and my friends being accused of being antisemitic by people who awr happy to use the Jewish People as political clubs
- Bobad it the worst bow Bearded Bruce has done a runner
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 04:12 PM

It's official then. Johnson and Farage are joined at the hip. What a nightmarish creature Brexit has spawned!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mossback
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 05:49 PM

"Stuff a sock in yer gob, eh?"

Why ?


Why, Jim? Because the only reason they keep it up is to stick a finger in your eye, and you keep on encouraging them to do so ad nauseam ..


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Nov 19 - 08:39 PM

They do what they do whether we respond or not - but I' take your point
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 04:37 AM

. I expected you to point out that it was not so much destroying the ring as the quest to destroy the ring that impacted his homeland. Still, let's leave this as a Brexit thread than change it into some sort of online book club.

It is obvious you are referring to Corbyn as Gollum as, in the unlikely event he becomes PM, the country will be transformed into an economic wasteland
https://www.ft.com/content/439d7270-cfb8-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f
Their crowning insanity is the wish to nationalize everything from hospital pharmacies to energy suppliers.

But of course to pursue this insanity Labour first has to implement brexit, but display their usual sleight of hand by not making this
clear to the electorate. Such a policy runs counter to EU legislation.
"Under Article 107(I) TFEU, the actions of member states must not distort competition. Interventions by EU member states in the economy can be ruled unlawful if it can be shown that they use state resources, distort competition, distort trade between member states or give enterprises a selective advantage. Article 87(1) TFEU covers “any aid granted by a member state or through state resources in any form whatsoever which distorts or threatens to distort competition by favouring certain undertakings or the production of certain goods, in so far as it affects trade between member states.”

Competitive tendering dominates EU law with the exception of certain defense related industries.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 07:38 AM

Back in the ‘80s, the leader of one of the two major parties was out on the streets, campaigning against the Apartheid regime, and for the rights of black citizens, in South Africa. The leader of the other of the two major parties was out on the streets, burning £20 notes in front of homeless people.

No need to even say which one is which, is there?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 08:26 AM

Interesting to see the out-in-the-open love affait between Fascist Farage and Brainless Boris
Not sure who going to be 'The Fuehrer' and 'Il Duce' if they get anywhere
PITY CHARLIE ISN'T AROUND TO IMMORTALISE THEM
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 04:06 AM

Brtainless Boris - A King's scholar at Eton(awarded for academic excellence) Degree from Oxford.
Braindead corbyn - Privately educated until age 11, then Grammar school(one of the top 50 schools in the country)left with 2AL grade E.
Then Corbyn began a course in Trade Union Studies at North London Polytechnic but left after a year without a degree after a series of arguments with his tutors over the curriculum.

Corbyn an excellent example of the old adage:
You can lead a horse to water, but cannot make it drink!

Boris supped heartily at the foot of Athena, Compo got lost on the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 04:21 AM

A highly educated King PASSING HIS EDUCATION ON TO HIS FAMILY
Britain has always been ruled by educated apes
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 04:44 AM

Britain has always been ruled by educated apes.
Does that include Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown?

more stunning stupidity off little jimmie.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 04:57 AM

I see Arron Banks is telling the Brexit Party to stand down more candidates 'There are 48 hours to save Brexit and save the country from a Corbyn government," Banks said.'


He doesn't sound confident of a huge Tory majority, does he?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 05:25 AM

I saw that DMcG. It confirms exactly who is running the right wing and brexit extremists. It should be plastered all over by the remain campaign. A vote for brexit is giving the thumbs up to unelected multi-millionaires to run the country!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 06:06 AM

I see that Sayeeda "why-was-she-ever-a-bloody-Tory" Warsi* is getting increasingly animated about the widespread culture of Islamophobia in the Tory party, rightly so too. Am I alone in detecting the distinct whiff of hypocrisy in the air, considering the concerted onslaught of mostly false accusations against Labour over the last few years?

In a very odd way, I'm finding that I can't take any interest in this election campaign. It could be brexit exhaustion (brexhaustion?) on my part. Maybe I'll warm up a bit as time goes on...

*Along with Dominic Grieve, Justine Greening and Sarah Wollaston...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 06:11 AM

‘Corbyn is coming for your car!’ Labour plots huge cost hikes to cut drivers by 60%

That will be a sure vote catcher in rural constituencies!
"An internal Labour Party report has revealed plans to increase fun duty and company car tax, along with mandatory road pricing and charges to park vehicles at work. Motorway speed limits will also be reduced in order for cars to travel more slowly and pollute less. And all planned road improvements will be scrapped too. But the Tories have warned a tax rise this could hit struggling motorists the hardest. It is now clear that Labour have secret plans to clobber hardworking people with a barrage of tax hikes on their family car, that would leave families with less money in their pockets.

“Labour’s extreme economic policies would be a disaster for drivers.

Tackling climate change is vital but independent experts and even Labour’s own unions say their promises don’t stack up.”

Tim Roache, head of the GMB union, which is Labour’s third-largest funder, also highlighted the policy would result in the “confiscation of petrol cars,” which could put “entire industries and the jobs they produced in peril.”

The madness that is Labour!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 06:25 AM

My dad always called the Daily Express the Daily Liar. I see that it came out as "fun duty" in the paper's website too. I've always regarded it as my duty to have fun. The rest of the Express piece appears to be fake news.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 06:26 AM

”Britain has always been ruled by educated apes.
Does that include Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown?

more stunning stupidity off little jimmie.”


Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown never ruled the United Kingdom, any more than Heath, Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May, or Johnson did.

HM Queen Elizabeth ll has ruled the UK since 1952, and continues to do so today. I would have expected a Right Wing Extremist - especially one whose indoctrination during his time as a squaddie would, if he’d been paying attention, have educated him appropriately - to know that.

More stunning stupidity off ‘Seaman’ Staines’s stooge.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 06:56 AM

Stop that right now, John! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:01 AM

Sorry Dave! But, as Baby Staines so frequently says on this forum, “Awkward things, facts, aren’t they?”. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:05 AM

And, of course, allowing oneself the occasional bit of Nigelism can be very satisfying and liberating. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:08 AM

Ok. Just this once then :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 07:14 AM

LOL! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 09:01 AM

Facts are very awkward! Little jimmie first said:
Britain has always been ruled by educated apes.

I merely queried his nonsensical statement. The backward man should try to keep up with the narrative. Perhaps the name is very apt?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 09:45 AM

"Little jimmie first said:"
RThere goes that insecurity again
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 10:27 AM


In a very odd way, I'm finding that I can't take any interest in this election campaign


I know what you mean. I think, for me, it is because there is nothing of substance. The Tory wild estimates of Labour spending are clearly fake, but Labour has not yet said what its real commitments are. The Tories are making no end of announcements but all uncosted and almost all without timescales.

Maybe when we actually get manifestos the vapourware will reduce.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:07 AM

"vapourware will reduce."
I doubt it - what politicians promise will always be "like the barber's cat - all wind and piss (as my mam used to say) unless Corbyn breaks the mold
So far, so good
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:22 AM

”Facts are very awkward! Little jimmie first said:
Britain has always been ruled by educated apes.

I merely queried his nonsensical statement. The backward man should try to keep up with the narrative. Perhaps the name is very apt?”


Nothing to do with Jim, Baby Staines. You brought up Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown, not Jim - time to take responsibility for your own nonsense, all there in black and white for everyone to see.

And, in true barrack-room lawyer ex-squaddie fashion, you resort once again to insults when you have no case. Pure muppetry, and completely ineffectual - I couldn’t care less about a fool who has nothing but insults in his armoury.

Back to ignoring the ignorant, methinks.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:25 AM

not long now!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 11:31 AM

Jim if you propose childish arguments backed with childish jibes it would seem eminently sensible to treat you as a child. Serious communication with you is demonstrated to be an impossibility time after time.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 08:12 AM

Just a reminder that at the time Climate Change has now become a major international probe - - major flooding in Britain and Venice, Bush Fires in Australia, regular devastating hurricanes............... all the climate change chickens coming home to roost at the same time, The Tories have pulled Britain out of the International Climate Change Discussions on the orders to the White House thug now being investigated for impeachment
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:44 AM

There are two programs on BBC4 this evening (UK) about climate change. The first at 9 pm is a documentary investigating a data breach at the University of East Anglia in 2009 that suggested scientists had manipulated data to exaggerate evidence of climate change. and the second at 11:20 pm called Climate change by numbers. I'll be watching both with interest.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:16 PM

"I'll be watching both with interest."
Doubt if Trump the Tweeter and Boris the Braindead will be
One will be changing the locks in preparation for the result of the forthcoming impeachment, the other will be awaiting his master's orders
Both area largely responsible for what is happening to the Planet
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 03:34 PM

The 'Climate change by Numbers' programme says three mathematicians 'reveal three numbers that tell the story about the past, present and future of the earth's climate."

I have yet to see it, but I am EXTREMELY sceptical that three numbers can reveal any such thing. It would be at best an extremely gross generalisation. Not least because it is numbers: three formulae would still be extremely coarse, but might give some vague chance. But even then, it would probably be curve fitting to data, not explaining data.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 04:26 PM

For this reason alone, no decent, responsible, ordinary person should vote for the bunch of A-holes who have put the NHS into this position...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:23 PM

And get this. Migration from the EU down by two-thirds. Migration from outside the EU up by 21%. Businesses who depend on EU migrants struggling. The immigration we could control, from outside the EU, is not controlled and it won't be a lot different after brexit. And the nasty smirking arrogant bugger who's spouting her vicious bile about "controlling our borders," Patel, wouldn't even be here at all had "our borders been controlled" when her folks wanted to move here. You couldn't make it up.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:57 PM

What I never understood about the immigration business is this.

Those poor people who died in the container, and those people in camps at Calais - why are they so desperate to get here? To risk their lives!

After all they're out of the danger zone. they're in a country with a better economy that us. by all accounts better health service, better wages, better education system...

What is the attraction of Britain?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 02:42 AM

You’ve been reading the Daily Fail and listening to that pair of lying c**ts Farage and Johnson again, Al. You’ve fallen for their nonsense, which is designed to appeal to their audience’s confirmation bias’, a.k.a. ‘Tell them what their prejudices want to hear’.

The truth is that the UK gets fewer asylum applicants than many of the other ‘top’ EU Member-States - fewer than Hungary, Sweden, Italy, France, around the same number as Belgium, Austria, and Switzerland, and considerably fewer than Germany - click the link and scroll down to the table headed ‘Number of First-Time Asylum Applicants’.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis

And the answer to your question is, why wouldn’t the minority of migrants who attempt to come to the UK want to come here? Over the past couple of centuries at least, we have been a country that welcomes the weak and disadvantaged, we have stood up and fought tyrants not only for our own freedom but, more importantly, the freedom of other, weaker nations, we have built a successful economy, and we have (for the time being at least) a reasonably decent system of health and social care.

And we speak English - still the standard business-language and Lingua Franca of the whole world.

You like living here - so much so that you want to pull up the drawbridge, isolate us from the world’s biggest trading bloc - our nearest neighbours - and stop ‘them foreigners’ from coming here. Isn’t that what the Brexiteers’ mantra, Cummings’ rabble-rousing slogan ‘Take Back Control’ is all about?

In other words, they see the UK as Safety and Opportunity. Why wouldn’t somebody running from rape, murder, starvation, and other horrors we can only imagine, or even simply economic need, want to come here? And why would any decent, civilised, humane person want to stop them?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 04:50 AM

Taking that a little further, Backwoodsman.

Let us focus on just that section who have for to Calais and still want to get to the UK. why don't they just stop in France?


well, a lot do, as BWM said. Then again as he said, the UK has a history of tolerance. while we have plenty to worry about here with racial attacks we are still a more welcoming country in many respects. For example, France has laws banning the hijab in public. Whatever you may think about that, these migrants have lost home, family, and jobs. Almost all they have left is their sense of identity. And banning the hijab takes even that away from them.

When Belsen-Bergen was freed by the allies there were lots of things sent to their aid: food, clothes, medicine. One day they recieved a large box of lipsticks. The initial response was, in modern terminology WYF? But afterwards some of the people involved said it was the single most important parcel they recieved because it gave the women back a sense of identity" they were women again, not objects.

It does not do to underestimate the importance of the sense of identity; it can outweigh everything else. In some ways, that is the real driving force of Brexit for many people.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:19 AM

I would have thought the vietnamese would have a closer cultural ties with france than us.

You're not listening BWM,   to what I'm saying. You're just coming with the dial a remoaner typical response.

I am genuinely puzzled as to why someone would risk their life to come here from Austria - I believe it was in the case of the Vietnamese. The EU generally though. As I believe you keep telling us. We will losing all the brilliant opportunities of employment in the EU for our own citizens, if we were to leave the EU. These people are not just trotting down the road to find another job. They are risking their lives. There must be some logic in it. I realise I won't get it from you.

I don't read any newspaper s these days. I have always driven on the left when it comes to voting - none of the right wing papers have ever disgraced my home.
You thought processes have been got at BWM.. Try to to achieve some independence of mind in your dotage. take a leaf out of jim's book.

here he is every day defending his pitch against the barbarians. try to be more like him. you know it makes sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: JHW
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:32 AM

'National polls will not greatly influence my voting decision.'
Nor do I expect that my voting decision will affect the national result.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:35 AM

The broadband initiative is a brilliant move.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:38 AM

National polls will not greatly influence my voting decision.'
Nor do I expect that my voting decision will affect the national result.


That depends where you live, JHW. In my ward, the Conservatives had a majority of 31. The Tory is an ERG member, the defeated Labour man was strongly remain. There was at least one vote on the Brexit dance where speaker had a casting vote, and cast it with the government (which Brexiteers overlook as it does not fit their tale about him.) Had a handful of people voted, or voted differently, that vote and possibly the course of Brexit itself could have changed.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 05:51 AM

Y’know Al, for somebody who has achieved notoriety for playing the victim, and pissing and moaning about other people’s rudeness, you can be a very insulting fucker yourself, can’t you?

I tried to present a case which makes sense and isn’t mired in the racist propaganda of the Brexit Brigade. If you’re so intellectually bereft that you can’t understand the perfectly sound facts and reasons I presented, and feel the need to vent your considerable spleen on me, there’s nothing more I can say, other than that I suggest you find another victim.

Have a nice day.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 07:11 AM

The broadband initiative is a brilliant move.
Snigger, snigger
BT’s share price dropped almost 4% on opening this morning, following Labour’s late-night announcement yesterday that they plan on nationalising parts of BT to provide free full-fibre broadband to every household. They’ve costed it at £20 billion, which, in comparison to the rest of Labour’s manifesto, borders on pocket change…

Doing the media rounds this morning, McDonnell has promised re-nationalising British Telecoms really is the “limit of their ambitions”, however it has been pointed out he said the same thing when announcing he’d nationalise water, energy, rail and the post office…


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 07:56 AM

BWM - much as I love you and would never abuse you.

You are not engaging with the point that puzzled me, you are calling me a Daily mail reader - which frankly hurts. And comes nowhere in answering my question.

i really don't think our history, which has as many bloody tyrants as any other country, is the reason why people would risk their lives to get from Austria to here. I REALLY don't get it. And by the look of it - neither do you. Its just never occurred to you.

i will probably vote for he veggie munching little bumhole - but I don't have to agree with him, or like what he's done to the party I have voted for all my life.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 09:59 AM

At the moment the BT share price is down 1%, which is higher than it was on Nov 12 and roughly on trend for the last month. The announcement does not look as if it had a sustained impact. Of course, as with all share prices, that can change.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 06:20 PM

I think things are getting interesting. The NHS stats that came out yesterday, reflecting pretty accurately nine years of Tory misrule, and the broadband coup today that has wrongfooted the other parties and that is difficult to argue against, could be gamechangers. On top of that, Farage and his motley crew are rapidly imploding on the back of his severe political misjudgements. It's just whether anyone's listening...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:20 AM

I will vote for the labour party


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:30 AM

This could be an interesting week. The Labour Manifesto will be issued, but the Conservative one is not expected just yet. That will create a difficult few days for people like Javid who are stressing their fictitious costs of the Labour proposal. Time and again they are likely to be challenged that the figures they quote are for things not in the manifesto, while simultaneously still unable to cost theirs. And if they start saying what they think the actual manifesto will cost, they will again be open to challenge that they are putting more effort into costing the Labour proposals than their own.

I am convinced that this is going to be an election of individual wards. The conventional approach of seeing what Sunderland does (or other early declarer of the ward result) and basing predictions assuming that everywhere is likely to be an unusually poor guide to what actually happens.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:40 AM

Latest polls:

Panelbase: CON: 43% (+3) LAB: 30% (-) LDEM: 15% (-) BREX: 5% (-3)

PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

       Tories: 8/15 (4/7)(1.53)
       No overall: 7/4 (13/8)(2.75)
       Labour: 20/1 (20/1)(21)
       Lib Dems: 150/1 (150/1)
       Brexit Party: -* (250/1)
If Paddy Power is correct, it is looking GOOD!!!!
Seems the also rans are stumbling at the first fence!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:42 AM

From the poetry of Christopher Logue


I shall vote Labour
I shall vote Labour because
God votes Labour.
I shall vote Labour to protect
the sacred institution of The Family.
I shall vote Labour because
I am a dog.
I shall vote Labour because
upper-class hoorays annoy me in expensive restaurants.
I shall vote Labour because
I am on a diet.
I shall vote Labour because if I don't
somebody else will:
AND
I shall vote Labour because if one person
does it
everybody will be wanting to do it.
I shall vote Labour because if I do not vote Labour
my balls will drop off.
I shall vote Labour because
there are too few cars on the road.
I shall vote Labour because I am
a hopeless drug addict.
I shall vote Labour because
I failed to be a dollar millionaire aged three.
I shall vote Labour because Labour will build
more maximum security prisons.
I shall vote Labour because I want to shop
in an all-weather precinct stretching from Yeovil to Glasgow.
I shall vote Labour because
the Queen's stamp collection is the best
in the world.
I shall vote Labour because
deep in my heart
I am a Conservative.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:51 AM

When I first read that poem, which was when I was back at school, I found it quite confusing. It becomes clearer when you learn Logue was a pacifist and very active in CND. So it is very likely that he felt Labour was not left wing enough: hence the 'deep in my heart/I am a Conservative' couplet.

I am sure he would be far closer to Corbyn than Johnson - but still think Corbyn is not left wing enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 04:55 AM

It really is about time the working-class Tories (or ‘Mucky Toffs’ as my dad always called them) woke up...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-brexit-bus-election-vote-leave-campaign-jeremy-corbyn-a9204591.html?fbclid=Iw


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 05:29 AM

Good resource here

Boris Johnson fact checker


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 07:36 AM

The above is an article explaining the fact checker BTW. The actual fact checker is linked in the third paragraph of the article as "publish them online" or directly here - https://boris-johnson-lies.com/


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 08:23 AM

First visit by a campaigner (Tory: Royston Smith)

I opened by referencing the report that he had had least interventions in Parliament of any MP and had reacted to the news by saying "Someone has to come bottom of such lists".   

The poor guy then asked if I had any other concerns about Royston. "Well, yes, quite a lot, but I think being the least active MP is quite an important one, don't you agree?"

So we didn't even get round to any policy issues....


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 08:59 AM

The Tory Party is now under investigation accused of bribing two Brexit Party candidates to stand down - this early in the contest !!!!
Javid and "denied it, your honour"
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 10:37 AM

Shit! If I'd have stood for election - perhaps someone would have bribed me.....just in case anyone is in doubt, I am totally corrupt, and very much open to offers.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 11:20 AM

This Sky News piece goes to show how, once the Right-Wing-Extremist bullshit, bollocks, and spin is removed, the truth about Corbyn’s economics is that his ideas and policies are, in fact, mainstream policies, far removed from the Far Left policies his opponents accuse him of.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 12:07 PM

"perhaps someone would have bribed me..."
The punchline of an old Miners story about a scab recorded by MacColl was "The bosses only buy the best, not sh**" Al :-)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM

Priti Patel, Sajid Javid and Ben Wallace have blocked at the last minute an agreed plan to repatriate 60 children, including some orphans, of UK Isis families in Syria. A safe exit from the country had been organised, flights home arranged and care plans put in place by various councils across the country. This staggering inhumanity for pure political gain has to be exposed. These Tories know that this kind of ploy chimes nicely with the "tough on foreigners" sentiment they wish to encourage. I thought I couldn't get any more disgusted with these scumbags than I already am, but I was wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:14 PM

""tough on foreigners" "
Thought Brexit had sorted that out years ago with its spike in hate crimes
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 04:16 AM

From the Observer:

"Jennifer Arcuri: ‘I’ve kept Johnson’s secrets – now he’s cast me aside like a one-night stand’"

I don't about anyone else, but to me that reads "Be careful, I still have your secrets I can use when it suits me."


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 05:31 AM

It will be interesting to see if the latest revelations of British atrocities in Iraq ('Britain's Abu Ghraib'), and elsewhere will become an election issue - and how the Tories will inevitably attempt to explain them away, of course
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 07:00 AM

It just occurred to me - this election campaign has a certain resemblance to that old TV programme - The Wacky Races!
I leave you to work out who is Dastardly, Muttley and Penelope Pitstop.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 07:24 AM

I have to say Al that this is the first time for a long time I regret not being able to vote in a British Election
Must be going barmy in my old age !!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:28 AM

The culture that's developed of those in high places being able to lie blatantly to us and think they can get away with it is getting worrying. We all know about Johnson and Trump, masters of the art. But last night we had Prince Andrew telling us that he never saw anything to concern him at Epstein's house, that he couldn't remember a thing about the girl in the photo and nothing at all ever happened with her, that he only went back to stay with post-jail Epstein at his house (not a posh hotel or the British consulate) for FOUR DAYS just to tell him he was breaking it off... I found the whole thing absolutely jaw-dropping.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:32 AM

We're taking bets here whether Prince Eddie the Educated is going to be asked to resign !!
Interesting days
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:48 AM

 But last night we had Prince Andrew telling us that he never saw anything to concern him at Epstein's house.

Possibly true. But whether it would have concerned a police officer or a social worker might have a different answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 10:10 AM

Your jaw drops too easy Steve. i'd have it seen to.

You should see the things he got up to with Budgie the Helecopter.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 11:39 AM

It will be interesting to see if the latest revelations of British atrocities in Iraq ('Britain's Abu Ghraib'), and elsewhere will become an election issue - and how the Tories will inevitably attempt to explain them away, of course
all under Bliar and the Broon I believe. I wonder what comrade corbyn has to say about it?
Obviously not just spellchecker required!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:08 PM

”He takes a breath and adds: “The sole aim of Brexit is to enable the super-rich to move their money around the world, avoiding the regulation and taxation that the EU seeks to impose. They get richer, we get poorer.”

Never a truer word, and a very good reason to get rid of Johnson and the Tories in this election.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM

Blair and Brown were honourary Tories - That's what New Labour Was about
Blair sueezed out of war criminality because he wasn't considered a threat to the status quo
Corbyn would have been banged up in the Tower for have the damage Blair did to British Societ
It's will be fascinating to see how Prinny will be lifted off the hook he is now hung on
They are demanding he gives evidence under oath - wonder if he'll plead diplomatic immunity (or just blame his poor upbringing)
A teminder how the GREAT AND THE GOOD LET THEIR HAIR DOWN
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM

Blair and Brown were honourary Tories - That's what New Labour Was about
Blair sueezed out of war criminality because he wasn't considered a threat to the status quo
Corbyn would have been banged up in the Tower for have the damage Blair did to British Societ
It's will be fascinating to see how Prinny will be lifted off the hook he is now hung on
They are demanding he gives evidence under oath - wonder if he'll plead diplomatic immunity (or just blame his poor upbringing)
A teminder how the GREAT AND THE GOOD LET THEIR HAIR DOWN
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

200!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 01:31 PM

2 rongs don't make a rite!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 02:48 PM

Another Johnson Lie.

Wouldn’t you think that, having led a Brexit campaign based on racism and xenophobic propaganda designed to turn the feeble-minded and easily-led against migrants, that he’d have the numbers at his finger-tips? Well of course he has, but the truth doesn’t fit his agenda, so he lies unashamedly.

A disgusting specimen of the worst kind of human being.


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