BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 03:28 PM

Backwoodsman:
"This story broke in the Jewish press an entire day ago". Maybe the main newspapers haven't reported it because it is NOT news. The quote is from something Amjad Bashir said in 2014 in the European Parliament, when he was a UKIP MEP.
Perhaps, if this had been brought up during the recent selection process, he would not now be standing as a Conservative. But 'news' it certainly is not.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 01:15 PM

Funny how the mainstream media scream about ‘Labour Antisemitism’, yet Tory Antisemitism goes unreported .

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 05:48 AM

Good to see the wee crankie and libdumbs lost their court case to clutter up the airwaves with their election drivel in the Boris-Corbyn head to head debate on ITV.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 05:24 AM

Vaz has been a running sore for decades in Labour and I for one am glad to see the back of him. He's been mired in all sorts of murky business and has often been found wanting. Don't wanna get sued, or tarnish anyone with darkly unsupported insinuations, but a quick reading of his biography on wiki will sum the bugger up for you. He's one of those politicians who thinks that the Westminster bubble immunises him from criticism. Well he's recently found out that someone has pricked his personal bubble and such immunity ain't the case. He'll whine for a bit and try his best to hand this to the Tories (a disease among the ranks of the Labour disaffected, unfortunately). I wish him a long, happy and silent retirement.

But yes, it's another sideshow that I'm sure a Tory or two will think they can make hay from. Never fear, there are plenty like him in their own ranks. Now let's concentrate on the best interests of this country in this election campaign. Read the Oborne piece, good people.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 04:36 AM

not much of a story though, steve? not compared to some bloke in the midlands leaving the party.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 04:08 AM

Well done yerself, John, for beating me to it by linking to that Oborne piece. Of all the people to take Bozo to pieces! Who'd have thunk it!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 04:07 AM

"Another one bites the dust!"
ANOTHER HOW MANY BITE THE DUST - (TOO MANY TO COUNT)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 03:19 AM

The chairman of Keith Vaz’s Leicester East Constituency Labour Party, Councillor John Thomas has written to Jennie Formby, the party’s General Secretary, cancelling his membership of the Labour Party after 30 years and resigning as the chairman of the Leicester East CLP.
An Extract:
    “This is great disappointment to me, realising that I have spent over 30 years of my life working for a party that I now know that I have nothing in common with. This is not the party I joined, the party for decent working people. I can no longer follow the clown that leads the Labour Party, he is heavily influenced by the Trotskyite Len McCluskey and is now as the Hoki Coki leader, in out, and shake it all about he has turned this great party into a laughing stock.

    Please cancel the direct debit made in favour of your party by me and return all money’s taken by you through Leicester City Council Labour Group to me. I am also shocked that you have chosen a candidate who is a Councillor in Jeremy Corbyn’s Islington CLP to be the Labour Candidate for Leicester East for the next General Election. Where is the democracy in all this? It is a fix and a disgrace.”

Another one bites the dust!(The full story at guido, of course)
It looks like he has taken some of my story lines as well.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 01:52 AM

Well done, DMcG! It’s so refreshing to see Nigel out-Nigelled! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 01:50 AM

Peter Oborne on Johnson’s lies. As Mark Twain said, “It’s easier to fool people than convince them they’ve been fooled”.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 06:17 PM

As I said, Nigel, I don't that interpretation is solid. The only way I could afford my house was to take out a mortgage. But there was also a lot of money from elsewhere as a deposit. To me, that 'only' referred to the objective (in my case, getting the house.) It did not imply the only funding that went into the house was what I borrowed.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 05:52 PM

I wonder how many times you think Cameron with his ill-starred referendum, May with her strong and stable government and Johnson with his litany of lies have fooled you?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 05:35 PM

His 'only' seems to be a statement that borrowing is the 'only' way to rebuild the country. That does not seem to support the first half of the bullet point being to Win the battle for credibility over tax and spend. .
Part of the problems currently with the NHS (among others) was the idea that new hospitals could be built by getting the health service to put itself into long term (debt) repayments which should have been the governments responsibility, but were a method of keeping the spending off the budget sheet.
A new Labour government, if we ever get one, could prove to be more fiscally responsible than those which have gone before. But I believe in the basis "Fool me once . . ."

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 12:59 PM

my apologies, Nigel. In responding to Steve I ended up referring to you in the third person. I should not do that.

Perhaps you would want to elaborate on whether you regarded the word 'only' to refer to the means of funding the investments?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 12:27 PM

I agree Nigel's point seems wide of the mark. Saying you are borrowing to invest in no way prohibits you from using money raised via taxation towards that investment as well. It may be that he is interpreting the word 'only' to apply to the means of funding, rather than it being the achievement of the desired end, but that would need a pretty determinedly wrongheaded approach to understanding.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 12:21 PM

There is nothing clashing in Paul Mason's first point. You can raise money both by raising taxes, or at least not making rash promises to cut taxes, and by borrowing. Interest rates for government borrowing are very low and there is plenty of scope for borrowing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 11:57 AM

https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1195805054588084224

Oh Dear compos losing it!
45% of the toffs will vote Tory.
45% of the blue collars will vote Tory

Voting intent
Conservative 45%
Labour 30$
Compo's theme toon

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 11:47 AM

Even the very first point of Paul Mason's guide looks wrong:
1. Win the battle for credibility over tax and spend. Explain why borrowing to spend money on long term infrastructure is the only way to rebuild our country.
If borrowing to spend is the way forward, that does not support a call for a regime of tax and spend. He is carefully explaining the fallacy of his own message.

Of course, if he meant that to be two separate messages he could have separated the points out. But it is not clear that that was his intention.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 11:02 AM

Oh dear, It all seems to be going Pete Tong for the fat, loud-mouth Russian collaborator currently posing as our Prime Minister.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 08:34 AM

Wise words from Paul, Steve. We need to make as much as a can of his point about being lied to as often as we can. Here is a reminder of the link I posted earlier

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 05:55 AM

Inspirational stuff from Paul Mason, a brilliant Labour activist, from today's LabourList. He's a good lad is Paul, not least because he went to the same school as me!

I’ve spent three Saturdays on the doors in marginals and, though it’s tough in places, we’re making progress. Every seat is different, but what I’m picking up is that the sheer volume of “undecided” voters is large. The Tories will try to tip these voters over with a campaign of fear and carefully targeted lies in the last ten days of the campaign.

That’s why I’ve pulled together the ten things that I personally keep in mind when I’m canvassing and at the hustings. I hope these tips help…

1. Win the battle for credibility over tax and spend. Explain why borrowing to spend money on long term infrastructure is the only way to rebuild our country.

2. Win the battle for verification over assertion, truth over lies. The entire Tory strategy is to normalise lying and get the broadcasters to accept it. Stop the broadcast until lies are corrected and demand an on air correction.

3. On the doorstep… Listen. Understand where the anger is coming from and tell a different story – of hope about the future of our communities and our country.


4. Relentlessly focus resources on real target seats and wards. Feel-good events won’t win the election but do boost morale of volunteers, so keep them short and interesting. Polls show we’re making progress, which means we have to adjust our targets in real time, unsentimentally, both nationally and within single seats.

5. Accurate voter ID and preparations to get out the vote (GOTV) will be key. Many traditional Tory activists are discouraged from campaigning by the nastiness of their own offer, and the tie up with Nigel Farage. Their campaign looks heavily digital – our strength is in human connections.

6. Be proud to be Labour. We’re a mass party rooted in every community. The Tory strategy is to stigmatise us – it’s not working because our ordinary working class members are our secret weapon.

7. Accept that some voters are already making tactical decisions in response to the Farage-Johnson pact. And there will be more towards the end. Make sure they know that if they lend us their vote to stop a far-right government there will be humility from us in return. If a Green or Lib Dem candidate stands down, say a public thank you and keep saying it.

8. Align the ground war with the air war. Over the last week, it has been about NHS waiting times and free broadband. As a news journalist, I know it takes three to four days for any big news to clarify into people’s minds – don’t move on until the big issues have “landed” on the doorstep.

9. Focus your time online effectively. We have to be our own media, so after campaigning tell everyone in your social media network what’s come up, spread the party’s key messages in your own words – with selfies, videos, posts. One genuine short video to sent to 50 friends is worth five retweets of a Jeremy Corbyn meme – but keep RT-ing as well!

10. Our campaign is focused on a mix of defensive marginals and offensive ones. It’s not just about taking new seats: just like in warfare, the resolute defence of a place where our opponent is wasting huge resources trying to capture can be a route to victory.

Finally, remember the final phase of this campaign will be a frenzy of Tory lies, amplified by the media. The feeling that “We’re being lied to…” is one of the strongest reflexes in working class life going back generations. I think if we can win the battle for credibility and truth now, that’s a great investment for moment the fake news factory goes into overdrive.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 04:42 AM

Anyone know compo's Brexit policy then?
In moving pictures and sound from the BBC yesterday.
linked Courtesy of guido, of course.
https://order-order.com/2019/11/17/corbyn-refuses-five-times-say-whether-hes-leave-remain/

Kinda hard to deny his wriggling boyos! What a joke!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 04:33 AM

O what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 03:37 AM

You really couldn’t make it up! Wonder how many of the ‘Take Back Control’ bunch will vote for him?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 03:25 AM

Must be a bit like compo then, sucking up to hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 02:48 PM

Another Johnson Lie.

Wouldn’t you think that, having led a Brexit campaign based on racism and xenophobic propaganda designed to turn the feeble-minded and easily-led against migrants, that he’d have the numbers at his finger-tips? Well of course he has, but the truth doesn’t fit his agenda, so he lies unashamedly.

A disgusting specimen of the worst kind of human being.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 01:31 PM

2 rongs don't make a rite!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

200!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM

Blair and Brown were honourary Tories - That's what New Labour Was about
Blair sueezed out of war criminality because he wasn't considered a threat to the status quo
Corbyn would have been banged up in the Tower for have the damage Blair did to British Societ
It's will be fascinating to see how Prinny will be lifted off the hook he is now hung on
They are demanding he gives evidence under oath - wonder if he'll plead diplomatic immunity (or just blame his poor upbringing)
A teminder how the GREAT AND THE GOOD LET THEIR HAIR DOWN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM

Blair and Brown were honourary Tories - That's what New Labour Was about
Blair sueezed out of war criminality because he wasn't considered a threat to the status quo
Corbyn would have been banged up in the Tower for have the damage Blair did to British Societ
It's will be fascinating to see how Prinny will be lifted off the hook he is now hung on
They are demanding he gives evidence under oath - wonder if he'll plead diplomatic immunity (or just blame his poor upbringing)
A teminder how the GREAT AND THE GOOD LET THEIR HAIR DOWN
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 12:08 PM

”He takes a breath and adds: “The sole aim of Brexit is to enable the super-rich to move their money around the world, avoiding the regulation and taxation that the EU seeks to impose. They get richer, we get poorer.”

Never a truer word, and a very good reason to get rid of Johnson and the Tories in this election.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 11:39 AM

It will be interesting to see if the latest revelations of British atrocities in Iraq ('Britain's Abu Ghraib'), and elsewhere will become an election issue - and how the Tories will inevitably attempt to explain them away, of course
all under Bliar and the Broon I believe. I wonder what comrade corbyn has to say about it?
Obviously not just spellchecker required!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 10:10 AM

Your jaw drops too easy Steve. i'd have it seen to.

You should see the things he got up to with Budgie the Helecopter.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:48 AM

 But last night we had Prince Andrew telling us that he never saw anything to concern him at Epstein's house.

Possibly true. But whether it would have concerned a police officer or a social worker might have a different answer.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:32 AM

We're taking bets here whether Prince Eddie the Educated is going to be asked to resign !!
Interesting days
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:28 AM

The culture that's developed of those in high places being able to lie blatantly to us and think they can get away with it is getting worrying. We all know about Johnson and Trump, masters of the art. But last night we had Prince Andrew telling us that he never saw anything to concern him at Epstein's house, that he couldn't remember a thing about the girl in the photo and nothing at all ever happened with her, that he only went back to stay with post-jail Epstein at his house (not a posh hotel or the British consulate) for FOUR DAYS just to tell him he was breaking it off... I found the whole thing absolutely jaw-dropping.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 07:24 AM

I have to say Al that this is the first time for a long time I regret not being able to vote in a British Election
Must be going barmy in my old age !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 07:00 AM

It just occurred to me - this election campaign has a certain resemblance to that old TV programme - The Wacky Races!
I leave you to work out who is Dastardly, Muttley and Penelope Pitstop.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 05:31 AM

It will be interesting to see if the latest revelations of British atrocities in Iraq ('Britain's Abu Ghraib'), and elsewhere will become an election issue - and how the Tories will inevitably attempt to explain them away, of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 04:16 AM

From the Observer:

"Jennifer Arcuri: ‘I’ve kept Johnson’s secrets – now he’s cast me aside like a one-night stand’"

I don't about anyone else, but to me that reads "Be careful, I still have your secrets I can use when it suits me."

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:14 PM

""tough on foreigners" "
Thought Brexit had sorted that out years ago with its spike in hate crimes
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 02:03 PM

Priti Patel, Sajid Javid and Ben Wallace have blocked at the last minute an agreed plan to repatriate 60 children, including some orphans, of UK Isis families in Syria. A safe exit from the country had been organised, flights home arranged and care plans put in place by various councils across the country. This staggering inhumanity for pure political gain has to be exposed. These Tories know that this kind of ploy chimes nicely with the "tough on foreigners" sentiment they wish to encourage. I thought I couldn't get any more disgusted with these scumbags than I already am, but I was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 12:07 PM

"perhaps someone would have bribed me..."
The punchline of an old Miners story about a scab recorded by MacColl was "The bosses only buy the best, not sh**" Al :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 11:20 AM

This Sky News piece goes to show how, once the Right-Wing-Extremist bullshit, bollocks, and spin is removed, the truth about Corbyn’s economics is that his ideas and policies are, in fact, mainstream policies, far removed from the Far Left policies his opponents accuse him of.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 10:37 AM

Shit! If I'd have stood for election - perhaps someone would have bribed me.....just in case anyone is in doubt, I am totally corrupt, and very much open to offers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 08:59 AM

The Tory Party is now under investigation accused of bribing two Brexit Party candidates to stand down - this early in the contest !!!!
Javid and "denied it, your honour"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 08:23 AM

First visit by a campaigner (Tory: Royston Smith)

I opened by referencing the report that he had had least interventions in Parliament of any MP and had reacted to the news by saying "Someone has to come bottom of such lists".   

The poor guy then asked if I had any other concerns about Royston. "Well, yes, quite a lot, but I think being the least active MP is quite an important one, don't you agree?"

So we didn't even get round to any policy issues....

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 07:36 AM

The above is an article explaining the fact checker BTW. The actual fact checker is linked in the third paragraph of the article as "publish them online" or directly here - https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 05:29 AM

Good resource here

Boris Johnson fact checker

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 04:55 AM

It really is about time the working-class Tories (or ‘Mucky Toffs’ as my dad always called them) woke up...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-brexit-bus-election-vote-leave-campaign-jeremy-corbyn-a9204591.html?fbclid=Iw