BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 01:57 AM

Pretty certain the fake ‘Tory Manifesto’ site had nothing to do with the Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 02:12 AM

As whoever has now bought that site, what I would suggest is replacing by a very sparse page saying "This is NOT the Conservative manifesto site. It was created as a reaction to the Conservatives creating a false Labour site, to show how easy it is to spread false information.

The actual Conservative manifesto has not yet been released. When it is, we will link to it from here."

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 02:21 AM

Good idea, DMcG.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 04:46 AM

The Labour manifesto:
The Madness that is Corbyn !

Beattie asks:
Why would anyone vote for Corbyn?
(apart from the unwashed, brainwashed guardian readers)

From Guido(of course!)


https://order-order.com/2019/11/22/beattie-asks-anybody-vote-labour-party/#disqus_thread



The great proof of madness is the disproportion of one's designs to one's means. (even with the abbacus doing the sums!)

Napoleon Bonaparte

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 06:05 AM

The Beattie advertisement is worth thinking about. It was paid for by Mainstream, which is lead by Ian Austin, which claims to be "The campaign against extremism."

But what, supposedly, was the final straw for Beattie? Antisemitism? No. She talks about that, but it was not the final straw. Other racism? No, that's not even mentioned.

So what does Mainstream, in the guise of Beattie, regard as the final straw?

"... getting his allotment hands on my broadband ... he wants to take it away and ruin it."

Is that really the final straw for "The campaign against extremism"? Really? That is what pushed you over the edge?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 06:47 AM

Latest polls:

IpsosMORI: CON: 44% (+3) LAB: 28% (+4) LDEM: 16% (-4) BREX: 3% (-4)
ComRes: CON: 42% (+1) LAB: 31% (-2) LDEM: 15% (+1) BREX: 5% (-)

Survation – Great Grimsby Constituency: CON: 44% (+2) LAB: 31% (-18%) BREX: 17% (+17) LDEM: 4% (+1)

PaddyPower Majority Odds (Previous in Brackets):

       Tories: 1/2 (4/9)
       No overall: 7/4 (15/8)
       Labour: 25/1 (25/1)
       Lib Dems: 250/1 (250/1)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 07:35 AM

Apparently Farage is claiming the Brexit party would introduce a “citizens’ initiative”, triggering a referendum if 5 million people sign a valid register calling for a public vote on a particular issue.

What was that about a never ending referendum on Brexit? I am sure remainers can find 5m, and then whoever wins the other side can find 5m, and again, and again ...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 09:32 AM

I think the key to that is the term 'valid register', by the way. I suspect he will be the one to decide on the register's validity.   Or to put it another way, to have ultimate control.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 04:07 PM

Just watched the question time special and remembered why I stopped watching in the first place. They still haven't realised that the Daily Heil plants in the audience are just too obvious.

Still, it was worth it to see Bozo flailing round cluelessly when confronted about lying and the NHS.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 04:41 PM

Jeremy did pretty well, I thought, maintaining dignity, sounding well-prepared and able to explain Labour's policies and defend himself against the usual attacks. Even the odd spot of levity (a bit more of that from him would be good). Nicola wasn't closing any doors either. The audience made mincemeat of the shallow Swinson and tore Johnson to pieces. Does it matter? Who knows...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 04:48 PM

I was out at a choir practice, so did not see it. Is it worth trying to find on some catch up service?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 05:24 PM

Well the Beeb 10 o'clock News remained painfully neutral about it. Maybe Newsnight will be better. Whether you watch it back depends on how valuable you regard the remaining hours of your life to be. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 05:35 PM

I’m pretty much with Steve - except that, for me, Nicola Sturgeon was the most impressive, answering every question intelligently and in terms that everyone could understand, with JC a close seecond. Jo Swinson was a car-crash, and Johnson was, as you would expect, all bluster, lies, catch-phrases, wind and piss.

I could have punched the South African-sounding cock who rattled on about ‘anti-semitism’ in his obnoxious face - an obvious plant.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 05:53 PM

I shouldn't think Newsnight will be better, with Emma Barnet, who I find an exceptionally poor interviewer (sorry: presenter. Newsnight doesn't call them interviewers.)

This is not a matter of agreeing with her or not: I don't agree with Andrew Neil much, but his is a far more capable interviewer.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 06:15 PM

Gosh, yes, Emma has a message all right. I agree with BWM's analysis. I think that there's the germ of a progressive alliance there between Nicola and Jeremy. They are prowling around each other a bit at present but in the event of a hung parliament, which is the best I can hope for, I think that realpolitik will kick in.

One thing's for sure. Jo Swinson is doomed.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 03:46 AM

I think I must have watched a different program. Magic grandad still cannot say if he is coming or going. His previous supporters can see straight through his policies and are scattering like chaff in the wind to find safety and solace in the Tory party

It is the mark of the man and a measure of his astounding insensitivity or political naivety that he launches his manifesto in Birmingham on the 45th anniversary of the IRA bombing that killed 21 and injured 182 people. He and his cabal have some very dodgy political affiliations and people will not like having their noses rubbed in it by his grandstanding above. Shame on the man!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 03:51 AM

Pretty fair analysis in The Guardian

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 04:22 AM

Let's remind you about the post I made on the 21st November:


The EU is "open to" Labour's Brexit policy of renegotiating the Brexit agreement to include a customs union and single market membership, Leo Varadkar has said.

Asked about the Labour manifesto the Irish leader told public broadcaster RTE that the bloc would be "very happy" with sitting down with "whoever is prime minister" and that the opposition's policy would not be a problem.


Emma and others can argue until they are blue in the face - what a fortunate alignment between cliché and stance - that the EU will not try to negotiate a deal unless Corbyn says he would support leave or remain, rather than be avowedly neutral, but she can only do so by ignoring what they have already said.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 04:28 AM

By a very wide margin, the best moment of the programme last night.

A blond, lying buffoon outclassed and schooled by a quietly-spoken, classy woman, young enough to be his daughter.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 04:54 PM

I begrudge voting for any such low grade leaders I must say!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 08:33 PM

I was pleased to see the Labour manifesto promises to allow the Chagos Islanders to return home.

And I'd be getting back my free TV licence.

And four new bank holidays, one for St George, one for St Patrick, one for St Andrew and one for St David.

Lot of good stuff there in the details.
.............

I think Jo Stimson has blown it completely. What made her performance look even worse was that it came after Nicola Sturgeon's master class.
..............
I am puzzled by the suggestion that the EU would be the least worried by the thought that Jeremy Corbyn would not be campaigning to encourage people to back a deal he had negotiated. All the evidence I've seen is that they would see a referendum outcome for Britain to remain in the EU as far preferable to any deal for its leaving.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Nov 19 - 04:01 AM

I agree, MacGrath. And it is worth looking at the other outcome as well. Both the EU and Labour understand that the result of a second referendum is not a foregone conclusion: Leave might win. So it is in both their interests to agree the best deal they can in case they have to implement it. The only thing that is ruled out is the hardest of Brexits, but since that is not what Labour would be arguing for, and is not what the EU want, that is not really a limitation.

And of course, a soft Brexit is 100% compatible with what the famed 17.4m voted for.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 24 Nov 19 - 05:08 AM

And of course, a soft Brexit is 100% compatible with what the famed 17.4m voted for.

Merely an opinion with jackshit to support it. 17.4m voted for brexit.
It was not soft, hard or covered in chocolate within a fancy wrapper. It was simply brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Nov 19 - 07:50 AM

Precisely. That is why it is as compatible as any other interpretation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Nov 19 - 08:00 AM

The Official Mouthpiece of The Conservative Party - the BBC - at it again, Editing their reporting in an effort to make our National Liar-in-Chief appear to be slightly less of a deceitful Wankpuffin than he actually is.

Time they changed their name to the CPC - Conservative Propaganda Corporation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 12:01 AM

Corbyn's stance on Brexit, explained in pictures, so that Johnson and other feeble-minded people have a chance to understand a grown-up's way of dealing with the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 11:22 AM

631 Conservative Candidates have today written a letter to their Labour opponent asking them to clarify their own personal positions on crucial issues at the election. An important tactic given Corbyn’s indecision…

The letters ask Labour candidates to outline:

    Their Brexit position
    Whether they’ll also remain neutral during a second referendum
    Whether they want a Scottish Independence referendum

The letter claims their position as Corbyn’s candidate “needs urgent clarification to help local people make their choice”

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 11:35 AM

Deflection - the standard Tory-weasel tactic.

They’d do far better, and do their voters a far bigger favour, by writing to Johnson asking him to stop putting them in the difficult and embarrassing position of having to defend his shameless, bare-faced lies when they meet members of the public during their campaign.

The Official Conservative Mouthpiece - the BBC - is having to apologise for aiding and abetting him in his non-stop deceit...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-laughing-question-time-video-edited-general-election-a9217141.html?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 11:56 AM

It is hardly deflection to ask Labour what their brexit policy is. After all the main driver for the election is the question of brexit.
It seems very reasonable to ask kama sutra corbyn to clarify his many positions on brexit.

below is a link to his new battle wagon, titled The Prime Ditherer
(From Guido, of course)
https://order-order.com/2019/11/25/tories-new-election-poster-unveiled/

With Labour it musr be remembered, when reading their manifesto:

“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.” Thomas Jefferson

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 12:26 PM

No, Baby-Staines, Labour’s policies and ‘positions’ are a matter for Labour. The Tories need to concentrate on their own Rizla-thin manifesto. Writing to Labour demanding to know what their policy is on anything is simply a diversion from the paucity of their own policies.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 12:34 PM

I would add that if Johnson is to be trusted (ahem!) Brexit will be 'done' by Jan 31st, 2020. That leaves something like 4years 11 months of other stuff. Brexit is important, certainly, but so is the roughly 98.3% of the rest of the Parliamentary period.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 01:05 PM

No doubt in a few more weeks we will discover what the electorate thinks of all the posturing. But a confused message from labour will simple continue to haemorrhage former supporters to more worthy causes.
The polls are meaningless until we are at the eve of the election,and even then, unless the polls widen, prediction is uncertain.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 01:22 PM

It seems Johnson has raised the question whether New Zealand is closer to China than Wales. That is be no means as straightforward as you might think. By air it may well be closer. But the most likely common product in which Wales and New Zealand compete is lamb, and that is typically sent by ship, not air. Which means the ships either have to go through the Panama, which is expensive, or round South America, which is expensive and takes a long time. Either puts Wales at a competitive disadvantage.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 02:18 PM

the partick thistle manager has just announced he will be signing 20 new players in the january transfer window. great - hope they are loads better than the 20 players we currently have

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 04:35 PM

The vote in 2016 was on the form of words on the ballot - to leave the EU or not. Nothing about any of the other things peole might have had in their heads that led them to vote either way. Nothing about immigration or single market or customs unions.

Talk about what degree of "hardness" is or is not compatible with "Bexit" is irrelevant. We didn't vote about "Brexit', just on leaving the EU, which is a political structure that has only existed since the Maastricht Treaty, long after we'd been linked into what became the EU. So it's quite right to say that the "softest" departure from the polittical structure of EU, without disturbing Any of the other links we have built up with its members, is perfectly compatible with the referendum result.
...........

If I'd had any difficulty in deciding which way to vote, the promise in the Labour Manifesto to give so long delayed justice to the Chagos Islanders would swing it for me.
If the name doesn't ring a bell, read this summary of the snameful episode. And of its if anything more shameful sequel, lasting till today.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 04:59 PM

Thanks, MacGrath. You are quite right: I admit to a degree of sloppiness when I referred to the vote for Brexit. Of course, there was not actually any such thing: it was a vote for Leave. Referring to it as a vote for Brexit is bringing a whole mass of assumptions into it that have no right to be there.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 02:57 AM

I think if I was a Tory candidate the last thing I would want to do is try to point out any other parties faults With austerity, trashing of the NHS and a serial liar as leader to name but 3 that party has enough faults of its own.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM

I see the Chief Rabbi - a close personal friend of The Liar-In-Chief, Johnson - has decided to stick his oar in this morning.

Perhaps, instead of getting his knickers in a twist about a few people’s hurt feelings, he should be directing his bile at those who allowed the Grenfell Tower to be clad in highly-inflammable materials, or whose austerity has caused an estimated 120,000 unnecessary deaths during their term in office.

We keep hearing about ‘Russian interference’ in our political processes, but we should be equally concerned about Israeli interference.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 03:52 AM

And a reminder to the disenfranchised and left-behind about who it was that broke this nation...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 05:08 AM

it is not really about whether Corbyn is fit to be leader. It is, given the choice between Corbyn and Johnson, which is better.

in Johnson, we have a man who has resisted all attempts to constrain his power, and has written into his manifesto that he wants to reduce the power of the Lords, the courts and individual citizens to hold him to account, and in many cases move powers from Parliament his personally appointed ministers.

Were I Jewish, I would find that a cause for concern.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 05:34 AM

It isn't just the far-right chief rabbi. Justin Welby has joined the chorus, as has Julia Neuberger and a senior rabbi in Maidenhead (who has written to all 823 families in his congregation asking them to vote against Labour whatever they do).

There is something very unpleasant going on here when people of religion appear to be ganging up in a very partial way during an election campaign against the one party that is actually being seen to be tackling a discrimination problem within its ranks. There are over half a million of us and the finger of antisemitism has been pointed at fewer than one tenth of one percent of us. I don't think Labour should respond to this by indulging in mudslinging whataboutery, but let me just say that it would be good if these prayerful Tory hypocrites would pause to reflect on the fact that, by dissing Labour (specifically Corbyn, again whom it seems that any smear will do), they are heightening the chances of the country being led by an incompetent serial liar and Trumpist who is at the top of a party riddled with racism and Islamophobia. Attacking the one and not the other in an election campaign is an abuse of their platforms (don't get me started on that...) and it certainly goes against the supposed word of the God they love to invoke.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 06:21 AM

Is it just my imagination, or has our political arena been turned into something akin to the Final of ‘Strictly Come Dancing’?

My wife was recently offered a good job in Rotterdam but, due to wider-family responsibilities, we decided that it wasn’t feasible at the present time. How I wish now that we’d decided to go for it...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 06:33 AM

I have mentioned that before, John! Glad it's not just me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 06:40 AM

There is something very unpleasant going on here when people of religion appear to be ganging up in a very partial way during an election campaign against the one party that is actually being seen to be tackling a discrimination problem within its ranks.


Magic grandad is a thoroughly nasty piece of work unsuited to high office. He leads a party undergoing an official enquiry into antisemitism,
He encourages candidates such as:
Labour’s Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner candidate Peymana Assad is in hot water after social media posts surfaced of her saying she would “100% take up arms against the [Afghan] government and its allies” which at the time included the US and the UK. Now Jewish people are questioning an oddly worded tweet from Peymana, which talks about a “10 lost tribes of Israel joke” and a man who “got gassed”.
She has now deleted her Facebook account, you have to wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 06:50 AM

I note that the hallowed chief rabbi is opposed to women rabbis and same-sex marriage. Do you mind if I call him a backwoodsman, Backwoodsman? :-) He's also a big mate of Welby. Funny, innit, that Justin came out with his anti-Corbyn nonsense just after the chief rabbi came out with his. The phone lines must've been buzzing yesterday... These men of the cloth need to wrap the cloth round their bloody mouths during election campaigns, in m'humble.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:13 AM

I am not sure if the Conservatives will find this a helpful intervention by the Rabbi and the Archbishop. Their core strategy is to keep an intense focus on Brexit and this diverts attention away from it. If that is not enough the Muslim community has used to comment on the Tories' weakness on Islamophobia. Then some, like Lord Dobbs, are saying that the Rabbi has gone too far. It all distracts from the only thing Johnson's team really want to talk about.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:30 AM

Call him a backwoodsman if you wish, Steve! FWIW, I wear the epithet, ‘Backwoodsman’, as a Badge of Honour after one of the vilest, nastiest people ever to infect this forum used it in a failed attempt to insult and provoke me. I actually live in a very nice, very civilised part of the country!

In the meantime, and back to the real issues of the election, here’s Emily Maitlis speaking the truth about the ‘Get Brexit Done’ horse-shit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM

And I hate to say it, but I have a feeling that the great British public aren't as interested in antisemitism as some of Corbyn's detractors would like to believe. Anyway, Labour should continue to go high. Obviously, the biggest potential Tory weakness is the obnoxious character of their leader and that needs to be a focus. Apart from that Labour must emphasise how they are going to right the wrongs of the last ten years. Plenty of meat on that bone...

Barefaced lie about "50,000 nurses" duly noted...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:48 AM

On the subject of ‘50,000 extra nurses’, here’s HIGNFY’s view on it. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:49 AM

And 300