Folklore: Raven, Raven what are you doing?

Subject: Folklore: Raven, Raven what are you doing? Russia?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 05:38 AM

Hi

Looking for help on the source, even if it's original/modern, of some lines that I caught from a Russian TV show: "Gogol".
It's a supernatural/fantasy/detective themed show, in Russian, with subtitles. In the opening episode, the following lines (and I may not have reproduced them completely) are heard, and from the subtitles, it goes like this:

Raven, raven what are you doing?
Digging a hole?
Why are you digging?
To find a coin?
Why do you need a coin?
To buy a needle...

I have found a half-reference to something that sounds like it came from a similar source in Google Books - as part of a Russian opera, but it's difficult to find anything clear.

I'm wondering if anyone recognises this as a rhyme or a song. I thought it sounded old and traditional.

Over to you, Mudcatters.


Cheers


Steven

Subject: RE: Folklore: Raven, Raven what are you doing?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:00 AM

Updated to add:

A bit more digging reveals that it's probably from an opera by Rimsky-Korsakov based on stories from Nikolai Gogol - "A May Night"
there's a section in there where Mermaids are reciting lines

...

KHOR RUSALOK
Davajte, devicy,
DAvajte, v vorona!

1-JA RUSALKA
Komu zh byt' voronom?

KHOR RUSALOK
Komu byt' voronom?
Byt' voronom tebe.

1-JA RUSALKA [nasedka]
Voron, voron, chto ty delaesh'?

2-JA RUSALKA [voron]
Jamku roju.

1-JA RUSALKA
Na chto roesh' jamku?

2-JA RUSALKA
Chtob den'gu najti.

1-JA RUSALKA
Na chto tebe den'gu?

2-JA RUSALKA
Iglu kupit'.

1-JA RUSALKA
Zachem iglu?

2-JA RUSALKA
Meshochek sshit'.

1-JA RUSALKA
Zachem meshochek?

2-JA RUSALKA
Chtob soli kupit'.

1-JA RUSALKA
Zachem tebe sol'?

2-JA RUSALKA
Chtob shchi posolit'.

1-JA RUSALKA
Zachem tebe shchi?
.. and so on

When I eventually persuaded Google translate to help out, it came out roughly as :

"1st MERMAID [Mother hen]
Raven, raven, what are you doing?

2nd Mermaid [raven]
I’m giving birth to Jamka./ I think this should be: I'm making a hole

1st Mermaid
What are you digging a djamka for? (hole)

2nd Mermaid
To find dengue. / To get a coin?money?

1st Mermaid
What is your day?

2nd Mermaid
Needle to buy.

1st Mermaid
Why a needle?

2nd Mermaid
Sew the bag.

1st Mermaid
Why a pouch?

2nd Mermaid
To buy salt.

1st Mermaid
Why do you need salt?

2nd Mermaid
What will salt.

1st Mermaid
Why do you need cabbage soup?

And so on... Not sure if it's from Gogol, or from tradition.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Raven, Raven what are you doing?
From: GUEST,julian h
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:29 PM

Well- I see that you are apparently the ONLY other human being on the planet who had asked the same questions as I - I only just saw the Gogol series and was also both enchanted and perplexed by the partial recitation. Since there are no references that I could find either, with ANY search tools, and having read the translations of the play segment "the Drowned Maiden" - I must conclude that this was a creation by the script writers; there IS a "Raven Game" in which children in a circle, holding hands tightly, surround the one who is the raven, and the raven tries to rush forward and pull away one child at a time. It is supposed to represent a mean raven trying to take baby chicks form the nest of a chicken, presumably to eat them! But there is not a rhyme or song like the one done in the TV show. Sp - creative works, the only thing I can imagine- and we will never know what the rest of the song would be, since the show writers did not complete it! Frustrating, but, c'est la vie, eh?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Raven, Raven what are you doing?
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 06:23 PM

Sounds like a version of the story that's universal in folk memory - here's an Irish one, Munachar and Manachar

(which begins:

There once lived a Munachar and a Manachar, a long time ago, and it is a long time since it was, and if they were alive now they would not be alive then. They went out together to pick raspberries, and as many as Munachar used to pick Manachar used to eat. Munachar said he must go look for a rod to make a gad to hang Manachar, who ate his raspberries every one; and he came to the rod. "What news the day?" said the rod. "It is my own news that I'm seeking. Going looking for a rod, a rod to make a gad, a gad to hang Manachar, who ate my raspberries every one."

Subject: RE: Folklore: Raven, Raven what are you doing?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 04:45 PM

Thank god im not the only one that’s watched Gogol! Really glad I found this page!