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Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh

The Sandman 02 Dec 19 - 03:14 AM
Thompson 29 Nov 19 - 10:53 AM
keberoxu 27 Nov 19 - 11:43 AM
Thompson 27 Nov 19 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Philippa 27 Nov 19 - 10:47 AM
GUEST,Martin 27 Nov 19 - 05:05 AM
Thompson 27 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 25 Nov 19 - 05:50 PM
keberoxu 25 Nov 19 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 25 Nov 19 - 04:32 PM
keberoxu 25 Nov 19 - 01:14 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 17 Nov 19 - 02:34 AM
keberoxu 16 Nov 19 - 03:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 03:14 AM

i wonder if it has the same etymological root as fulminating, i would like to think of my oxtail stew as fulminating


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: Thompson
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 10:53 AM

Middle Irish was up to AD 1200.

Old Irish was from AD 600 to 900.


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 11:43 AM

I'm showing my ignorance here.
The Leabhar Breac is a document of great antiquity, I get that,
so the language in which it is written
is at some remove from the Gaelic of recent centuries.

That said,
I have no clue when you stop speaking of "Gaelic"
and when it becomes "middle Irish"
or "old Irish."


Phillipa, your contribution is especially appreciated, thank you.


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 11:12 AM

Isn't fulacht fia oldish too?


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 10:47 AM

This Irish is too old to be readily understood by modern Irish speakers. I expect fulachtadh is closely related to the words "fulaing" (to suffer or endure) and "fulaignt" - endurance, forbearance, suffering.


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 05:05 AM

Yep - that's part of the cooking/seething sense alright.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 03:47 AM

I wonder if the word's related to fulacht fia, a method of cooking using dug-out and lined pits filled with water; you slung in red-hot boulders heated in a nearby fire, then your meat mummified tightly in grass and herbs. Fia is a deer, by the way.


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 05:50 PM

Interesting indeed. That reference cites it as a “possibly figurative” use of the cooking/seething sense I gave. Who knows? I know an academic and native speaker of Irish who may know more ...

Regards


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 05:16 PM

Here it is.


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 04:32 PM

Sorry to disappoint!

The only connection I can guess at is through “fuil” - which means “blood”. This may look similar but sounds different!

If you point me towards your online source, I may be able to make sone sense of it.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 01:14 PM

I looked online and stumbled across a definition of
blood-letting or butchery.
Knowing me, I got it wrong, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 02:34 AM

Dineen, the standard early 20C. dictionary of Irish gives "seething" as the sole meaning for "fulachtadh" and relates it to "fulacht", with a number of cooking-related senses.

The next word in Dineen is "fulachtain" meaning "tolerant, long-suffering".

So Mumford Jones appears to be on the money, alright.

Regards


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Subject: Gaelic/Irish: the word fulachtadh
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 03:12 PM

However you translate this word, it is not for the squeamish.

The word 'fulachtadh'
appears in the manuscript, the Leabhar Breac.
It is part of a quatrain of verse handwritten in
the margins of the manuscript.
Which stanza reads:

Ach, cer thinn a fulachtadh
tucad er chnes meic Mhuire
tinne leis a dubhachus
do bhí uirraidh-si uime


By the time one encounters the English translation
set to music by Samuel Barber in the song "Crucifixion,"
the first music Barber composed for his song cycle "Hermit Songs,"

it has been rendered thus
(translator Howard Mumford Jones):

Ah! sore was the suffering borne
By the body of Mary's son!
But sorer still to Him was the grief
Which for His sake came upon His Mother.

"Suffering" being the poetic equivalent of "fulachtadh" above.

Is this a euphemistic translation, though?
What does 'fulachtadh' really mean?


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