The Curse of the Cassette

Subject: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 19 Nov 19 - 08:39 AM

R4X upload: The Curse of the Cassette (feature, 1997)

In the middle of last Saturday's 3-hour special on R4 Extra, there was a 1997 programme about the cassette that I found rather entertaining. Here it is, with the R4X continuity from the same presenter, for those interested in revisiting attitudes toward the cassette when it still seemed a commercially viable medium.

File: The Curse of the Cassette - 1997-03-08 (R4X 2019-11-16).mp3

Link: https://tinyurl.com/r38bl88

Info:

The Curse of the Cassette

Kaleidoscope Feature, Saturday, 8 March 1997, 19.20
Repeated Friday 9.30pm
Rebroadcast on R4 Extra, Sat 16 Nov 2019 as part of 'Hardware, Software, Anywhere'

Nick Baker discovers the downside of a design classic - the Philips audio cassette. Industrial espionage, audio piracy, romance and lost sticky labels in a tale that fits neatly on one C60. With Tony Benn, the Ayatollah Khomeini, and a real woman who could have stepped out of Nick Hornby's novel High Fidelity.

Produced by Nigel Acheson

===

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: JHW
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 06:34 AM

I have shelves full but they don't play in cars anymore.
Like most things they found a way to make them worse. Later ones had useless skinny boxes.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Acorn4
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 11:38 AM

And as for finding the right place on them...

Apparently a lot of audio recording programs now have a plug-in called "tape hiss" which you can add for the sake of nostalgia.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 12:03 PM

There is an online enthusiasts market for clasic era cassette tapes.
Even 2nd hand ones recorded on, are still desirable if in good condition...

If you have blank tapes still sealed in packaging,
there are buyers waiting...

yes even the humble cassette has it's cork sniffers
with pockets full of cash...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 22 Nov 19 - 12:16 PM

These links may help
How to Convert Cassettes to Digital Music Files YOUTUBE
How to Digitize Cassette Tapes using Audacity. YOUTUBE
https://m.wikihow.com/Transfer-Cassette-Tape-to-Computer WIKIHOW
Two Ways to Digitise Your Audio Cassette Tapes
https://www.nch.com.au/golden/index.html?kw=how%20to%20record%20from%20cassette%20to%20pc&gclid=Cj0KCQiAq97uBRCwARIsADTziyZY3jBc

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GUEST,Lou
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 11:49 AM

Those links are incredibly basic and flawed. I am a professional audio engineer and part of my work is restoring a collection of radio programs from cassettes to digital.

The BIG thing left out of most silly Utube tutorials is how important it is to get accurate playback of the cassettes, whch will enhance the sound of the transfer and give them new life. It is important to be sure the playback head is aligned to the track on the tape. Some better quality decks Such as some Nakamichis) have a knob control to adjust the azimuth, and it ia easy to hear when they are in alignmnt - the treble gets better and pops into focus when the azmuth is properly aligned!

Azimuth can be adjusted on any deck, but it is quite difficult without the actual external cntrol, and you may damage yur cassette deck.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Nov 19 - 02:15 PM

So do you have any links to better information, Lou?

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GUEST,Gilly
Date: 24 Nov 19 - 12:39 PM

Did anyone else ever have any of the Grundig cassettes?They were a fair bit bigger than the Phillips which became the standard size in the same way VHS and Betamax slogged it out a few years later. As I remember the sound quality was a bit better

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 12:04 PM

Apart from the hiss and the echoey print-through and the penchant for getting 50 feet of tape wrapped impossibly around the innards of the deck, they often suffered badly from wow and (especially) flutter, especially if you were trying to listen to piano or clarinet music. Then there was all that brown gunge on the heads and the little rubber wheel and the need to degauss the heads...

They had their place. But, as technology, they were right down there with low energy fluoresent light bulbs...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 12:24 PM

I heard a talk a couple of years ago by the Balkan music expert and singer Brenna McCrimmon. She said that what she would do on arriving in a strange town was what every ethnomusicologist would - head for the market and look for the cassette sellers, as they'd have local stuff you'd never find anywhere else.

I liked the way the Kurdish cassette dealers on the Istanbul dockside used to operate - the stock and ghetto blaster was all under a tent-like cover on a very solidly made handcart so they could run like hell with the whole lot if the cops took an interest.

Then you had the guys who sold sectarian songs and flute band music outside Rangers and Celtic matches in Glasgow. You'd expect them to take sides, but instead each one had a barrow with a precisely 50:50 share of red-white-and-blue Protestant stuff and tricoloured Fenian tapes.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 12:44 PM

And I can spell fluorescent.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 01:56 PM

'Fenian' is a nasty, discriminatory term, Jack Campin. Please don't employ it in future.

Back to the thread, there were still stalls flogging cassettes of 'Country and Irish' music and some trad at markets in my county, Donegal, and also Fermanagh just a few years ago.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: JHW
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 02:31 PM

Blank Cassettes were better quality than prerecoded ones which grind to a halt after a while. I replaced 2 with CDs, more recently available, have also copied some which my machine will play but not the owner's.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 02:52 PM

Folks who grew up with cassettes were mostly glad to see new superior technology replace them...

Young hipsters getting into cassettes for the first time
only have themselves to blame for chucking good money after bad,
just so they can look and feel cool...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 04:38 PM

See who comes over the red blossomed heather
Their green banners kissing the pure mountain air
Heads erect eyes front, stepping proudly together
Freedom sits throned on each proud spirit there
And down the hill twining, their blessed steel shining
Like rivers of beauty that flow from each glen
From mountain and valley, 'tis Liberty's rally
Out and make way for the bold Fenian Men!

We've men from the Nore, from the Suir and the Shannon
Let tyrants come forth, we'll bring force against force
Our pen is the sword and our voice is the cannon
Rifle for rifle and horse against horse
We've made the foul Saxon yield many a red battlefield
God on our side we will triumph again
Pay them back woe for woe, give them back blow for blow
Out and make way for the bold Fenian Men!

Side by side for the cause have our forefathers battled
Our hills never echoed the tread of a slave
In many's the field where the leaden hail rattled
Through the red gap of glory they march'd to their grave
And those who inherit their name and their spirit
Will march 'neath the banner of Liberty then
All who love foreign law, native or Saxon
Must out and make way for the bold Fenian Men!

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 05:52 PM

I could have labelled the other side of those cassette trays at Ibrox/Parkhead as Bluenose music, but I figured the reference to Butcher's Apron livery was snarky enough as it was.

I presume that poster has never been nearer to Glasgow than their Moscow troll farm anyway. Anybody local would have got the connotations of the way I wrote.

You'd have had to be an ethnomusicologist to want to patronize either side of those guys' merchandise anyway. (I have a cassette of Serbian nationalist music from the 1990s which is presumably saying the same sort of thing, but luckily I can hardly make out a word).

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 06:00 PM

What are you on about?

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 10:56 PM

Fenian is a term that seems to be loaded.

I'm just getting started on a cassette digitization project here. Some from friends who gave them to Dad, the lion's share of them recorded by him at Song Circle and other folk events. Lots of notations ahead.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 11:05 PM

From cassette tapes to an argument about about Irish sectarian politics
in only 10 to 12 posts...

Mudcat... for all your petty dispute needs, all under one roof...
see inside for 50% Black Friday time limited special deals...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Nov 19 - 11:37 PM

I still have some C180s. So thin you could see thru the tape.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 07:52 AM

And what about the curse of minidiscs? The name of the curse is Sonic Stage. Well done to Sony for ruining a good idea.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 09:49 AM

The world was in waiting for portable Hi Def micro SD card recorders...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 01:56 PM

'I presume that poster has never been nearer to Glasgow than their Moscow troll farm anyway. Anybody local would have got the connotations of the way I wrote.'

Jack, you're a rare man. It was (and still is) easier to get a bus from Gweedore to Glasgow than it was (and is) to go to Dublin. In my late teens I spent several weekends in the city, staying with relatives and hitting the town at night. More recently, I've lectured at the university.

My elder brother has reminded me that there was a UK rock magazine in the 80s/90s called 'Select' which used to have a free cassette attached to its cover. Were there any folk magazines which did the same?

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Nov 19 - 02:31 PM

Cover mounted free cassettes were common and popular,
until the CD was invented,
and in some cases for a longish time ater..
Early 80s NME casettes have gone down in cultural history,
they were such important compilations...

"Between 1981 and 1988, the venerable British music magazine NME released a staggering thirty-six cassette compilations. These were created as giveaways, intended to be promotional items rather than artifacts of lasting cultural value. Somewhere along the line, though, the C81 and C86 tapes became part of the unofficial indie-rock canon. "

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 03:53 AM

Although cassettes tend to be denigrated now, they were really useful in their day. First you could share music with friends and produce your own compilations of favourite songs, secondly unsigned artists could easily produce their own recordings and sell them at gigs, and thirdly it was the only way you could listen to your own choice of music whilst driving. Having a car with a radio cassette player was great at the time, but eventually they switched over to CDs, making for easier track selection but no home compilations, but now superseded by MP3 or memory sticks in cars. Not sure if that is progress, because you now have to either downstream music or record it in advance onto a stick, which just is as laborious as compiling cassette recordings was in 1980s.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 04:19 AM

I've got loads of home compilations on CDs in my car!

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 05:43 AM

Jerry - Burning compilation CDs was never difficult,
once you established which brands of blank discs were consistent and reliable
with your equipment and software.
Nero took all the donkey work out of it..

Loading tracks onto an SD Card, or USB stick, is nowhere near as much work as compiling a cassette...

I know all this as fact from too much time spent since 1978
obsessively compiling music on hundreds of cassettes and then perhaps even more CDs
for mates to take to university,
long Band van touring drives of Europe,
and music to persuade stubborn aging musician mates
to listen more widely outside their narow preferences/prejudices...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: JHW
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 05:46 AM

'Not sure if that is progress, because you now have to either downstream music or record it in advance onto a stick'
Agree.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 06:04 AM

How is that essentially any different in principle
to recording cassettes from other sources such as LPs and radio...???
.. and if it's that much trouble,
maybe ask a younger relative to do it for you then...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 07:37 AM

Steve Shaw - re minidiscs, Sonic Stage ver 4,3 was developed by enthusiasts to work with Windows 7, and I have found that it works OK in Windows 10.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 08:04 AM

I remember the Philips digital cassette when it was being promoted
as the next big thing at trade shows...

Then not too long after, the HiFi CD recorder was invented...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 08:24 AM

I have a Philps hi fi video recorder and cd recorder gathering dust!

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 08:46 AM

Philps???

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 08:51 AM

The problem is seeing if that dusty tech switches back on again,
and still works properly,
if you need to use it again after so many years of not being powered up...

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 10:02 AM

The problem with the CD recorder was that it only recorded in real time. I would also mention DAT - I have a dead and a partially working Sony D7 DAT recording walkman. To extract a recording digitally you either need the proprietry Sony digital connector cable which cost £120+ back in the day, or you use a diy connector as I do, but you can only copy in real time.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 11:55 AM

Ok, I was overlooking the CD burning facility, but even so it’s the general fag of re-recording recordings in advance, to listen to later, that life can now seem too short for. By the time I’ve completed the second generation recordings, in real time, I’m not always in any great hurry to listen to them so soon again in the car. Or is that just me?

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 12:04 PM

I gave up on Sonic Stage because of all Sony's petty restrictions as to what you could make further copies of. I'll take your word that things have improved but I've moved on.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 01:30 PM

I now use my CD recorder to convert the spdif (is it?) signal from DAT to optical for feeding into my HiMd which can then be transferred to pc via usb, in order to preserve digital quality.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 09:04 PM

I have a http://audio.teac.com/product/ad-rw900/ that I am using to convert a few old LPs and audio cassettes to MP3s. It will also record directly to CDs, but that is another storage problem...., not as bad as LPs and cassettes, but.... (a lot of it is just personal memories, but a few old LPs might be of interest to folkies..(a paper sleeved LP called "Olden Ballads" with Richard Dyer-Bennett on one side and Tom Glazer on the other)
I don't pretend that it is professional quality studio results, but it is a way to save things *I* recorded years ago and LPs rare and long out of print with no commercial CDs that I can find.

It is slow, real time work on a set with many non-intuitive settings, but I am successfully getting copies of recordings I made up to 40 years ago!
I doubt I will ever work my way thru the entire mass of stuff, so I'm being pretty picky about the order in the times I find to work on it.
If I win the lottery, I'll pay some pro outfit to do a bunch... I guess I better buy a lottert ticket, hmmm?

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: BobL
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 01:01 PM

Bonzo, is Sonic Stage still available anywhere after all this time? I use it to import stuff from Minidisc, and it's one of the reasons my old XP machine is still alive.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 01:25 PM

There appears to be an active download link on this forum
https://us.community.sony.com/s/question/0D50B00004IL277SAD/sonicstage-for-minidisc?language=en_US


"megnyc

2 years ago
Hi Atomant,


I am copying here a link to Download SonicStage Ultimate 4.3 from JustJager's item of 4/20/20/16. I just tested and it is still active.


https://mega.nz/#!NthnXRbA!HFXq06CdmUvR63STJc7y7uVUk44wxqnuL6RJjXBCryU


You should read his initial post as it has additional useful info. In fact, I would suggest that you read all the entries in this forum, starting at the beginning, It really won't take you very long and you will glean a lot of useful info.


Good luck and welcome to SonicStage!

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 04:03 PM

You can also use QHIMDTransfer for usb transfer to PC or mac I suppose.

QHiMDTransfer_win32setup.exe

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Nov 19 - 05:22 PM

I have a couple of hundred cassettes on a shelf just behind me. Maybe I should sell them and buy a new guitar?

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 02:21 PM

I recently discarded maybe 200 cassettes... now I have about 50 in the "I think I'd like to convert & save this stuff" pile.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 03:06 PM

I have hundreds of cassettes (mostly Middle Eastern, Indian and Western classical, with a few jazz and folk), have several cassette players, and listen to them regularly. The sound quality is dependably better than MP3 (at least any MP3s I can get and any equipment I have access to for playing them) and the 20-30 minutes of one C60 side is a convenient length for a lot of music (like most classical concertos, symphonies and chamber works, or a typical recorded raga). I don't see myself ever wanting to convert them unless to send one via the Internet.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 03:40 PM

To convert music on cassette to mp3 is sheer lunacy.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 06:04 PM

Not really, Bonzo. An MP3 is eternal. A cassette will one day shock you by being useless (found that out when I tried to play some 30-year-old ones the other day). Just apply the best bit rate you can when converting.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 07:47 AM

Better to convert to flac which is lossless, so no quality is lost.

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 07:53 AM

I'm not sure the easily available converters do FLAC. Ones I've seen seem to be MP3-only.

I have most of Ruhi Su's recordings on cassette and all of them on MP3 (torrent download). I only listen to the cassettes, partly because of the convenience and hearing them in the context he intended, but also because the MP3 conversions have sporadic ear-shattering pops and I've never got round to noting which tracks to avoid (checking through the whole lot would mean the process was much slower than real-time conversion).

Subject: RE: The Curse of the Cassette
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 08:11 AM

I use ffmpeg, a free command line programme, or VU player will convert to flac.