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Solo guitar and harmonica rack
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Subject: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: GUEST,SoloSongwriter Date: 19 Nov 19 - 06:06 PM Can anyone recommend recordings of solo guitarists who play harmonica on the rack besides Dylan? Trad folk artists preferred, and I'd like to avoid suggestions of blues artists. I play both 1st and 2nd position well, and playing in the rack with guitar is where I'd like to concentrate. I'm especially interested in players with guitar styles similar to Bert Jansch or Martin Carthy. Thanks in advance. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Nov 19 - 06:47 PM Jim Malcolm and John McCutcheon do that, but I can't think of individual songs to recommend. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: GUEST Date: 19 Nov 19 - 07:27 PM Not known as a guitarist, but look at Andy Irvine for harmonica technique. Roger. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Mark Ross Date: 20 Nov 19 - 10:13 AM Woody Guthrie, Bob Bovee, Pop Stoneman. Bovee is the best straight harp player around these days, playing fiddle tunes not for note on a rack. For blues, check out John Hammond and Paul Geremia. Mark Ross |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: John MacKenzie Date: 20 Nov 19 - 02:45 PM Andy Irvine is a wonderful harp player. He plays if "backwards", and by that I mean he plays with the low notes on the right, I think he may also play it blues style, with the emphasis on the draw notes. I'm not 100% sure, but listening to him play I get the feeling that he plays 2nd position, ie, when he plays in E he uses an A harp, likewise a D, when he plays in A, but don't quote me on that one. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 19 - 03:35 PM I wrote to Andy a good few years ago to ask him about harps, positions and tunings but he didn't get back to me. An issue with playing harp with guitar is the fine tuning of the harp. If it doesn't match the guitar tuning pretty closely you hear all sorts of distressing out-of-tune notes (usually harp sounding flat). Harmonicas that come in Just, or fine tunings close to Just, can be a pain. The old Marine Bands could be an issue. I haven't a clue how really good guitars come, but I've seen so many guitar owners tuning with a cheapie tuner that will give them equal temperament, sort of. In that tuning the Suzuki and Lee Oskar harps work well. I haven't bought any harps for a few years so I don't know how the evolution's going, but if you want to sound as good as can be this might need attention. I never got on with neck racks. Your harp playing can be basic only with such a setup, and don't even think of buying a cheap rack. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: meself Date: 20 Nov 19 - 04:32 PM "Your harp playing can be basic only with such a setup" - I can't agree with that one, Steve. It's like a lot of things: it depends how much time and effort you're willing and able to put into it. Obviously you can't get hand effects with rack plus guitar, but otherwise I can't think of anything that could be played without a rack that couldn't be played with a rack. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 19 - 05:00 PM I'm a long-time, seasoned harmonica player. If you're not holding the thing in your hands you are making a ton of compromises. It may be good enough to fit with what you're strumming and singing. But in terms of tone and projection, there is no competition. I'm not suggesting that rack playing isn't valid. But basic only is what it can only be. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Acorn4 Date: 20 Nov 19 - 05:35 PM If you are playing solo it's about the only way you can put an instrumental break in a song if you don't really do lead guitar. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 19 - 05:49 PM Yep. And why not! With caveats, as ever... |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: lefthanded guitar Date: 20 Nov 19 - 06:57 PM Not considered pure trad, but I think that Donovan and Neil Young played that way. You can still get a very nice a sound from playing harmonica on a rack, even though you won't get those special tones from using your hands. It does pay to get a good quality rack. If you do happen to have a cheap rack or ( in my case) an old one that's started to 'slip' - you can use gaffer's tape to keep it holding the harp steady. Inelegant solution, but it works. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 19 - 07:07 PM I bought a couple of racks years ago and found both of them to be a terminal slippin' hassle and a God-given formula for a stiff neck. Totally agreed on the special tone thing. Your throat, lungs, buccal cavity, diaphragm and hand cup are all vital elements when it comes to getting "that tone." Take any one of those away and, well, I suppose you can always hope that your audience won't notice... It might be a peripheral instrument in traditional music, but, like the music man, I can play, I can play-ay... |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: G-Force Date: 21 Nov 19 - 11:59 AM Jez Lowe plays pretty niftily using a hatmonica rack. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: punkfolkrocker Date: 21 Nov 19 - 12:51 PM kazoo.... |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Jack Campin Date: 21 Nov 19 - 01:10 PM I have recently discovered that my tilinko in C works very well played along with a blues guitarist doing stuff in C, with or without harmonica. It took me a long time to pick that tilinko out of a rack of dozens of them - I wanted one with an accurately tuned fundamental and as many harmonics as possible. I am presumably blowing to avoid harmonics that clash - I can only be totally intuitive about it, this is a theory-proof instrument. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: meself Date: 21 Nov 19 - 04:26 PM I respect Steve's achievement on the harmonica, and acknowledge his right to speak with authority on the subject - however, as a harmonica-player with just enough seasoning myself to claim some small authority, I will simply say that it is apparent that authorities are not unanimous on the question as to what can be accomplished on the harmonica in a rack. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Acorn4 Date: 21 Nov 19 - 05:15 PM Now playing a kazoo in a harmonica harness - that is a real challenge! |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Jack Campin Date: 21 Nov 19 - 07:16 PM The guy I was playng with this week did it. The kazoo was fixed onto the harmonica with rubber bands so he could switch between them. I didn't take in the exact geometry of the arrangement - he didn't bother with the kazoo while I was doing my thing with the tilinko. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Nov 19 - 07:27 PM If the harmonica playing is the point of the thing, the harmonica must be hand-held. The hand cup is a crucial element in tone and projection, whether or not you're using a mic. If you want the harmonica to be a mere adjunct to whatever else you're doing, Bob Dylan doing his cluster-note malarkey for example, the rack is fine. It's all valid, horses for courses and all that. From what I've heard from many a rack player, blissfully unaware of his fine-tuning, I would suggest that the average kazoo player is far more likely to be in tune. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: meself Date: 21 Nov 19 - 07:51 PM As I say, and it will be my last word on the subject,'authorities are not unanimous'. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: punkfolkrocker Date: 21 Nov 19 - 07:53 PM I've been enjoying listeng to kazoo virtuoso Ray Dorset [Mungo Jerry] this week... .. and he's known for gigging with a harmonica rack... |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Nov 19 - 08:22 PM The point is that I've spent years trying to get the harmonica accepted as a serious musical instrument. To that end I contributed over forty articles and God knows how many tunes to Harmonica World. I've seen way too many rack players who think that cluster-blowing on harps not in tune with their guitars is a valid way of doing "instrumental breaks" in their songs. I've seen one or two very decent rack players too, I hasten to add. The harmonica is no toy. I really must put up some more up-to-date YouTubes some time. Next time it rains... |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: punkfolkrocker Date: 21 Nov 19 - 10:44 PM Two things I want to learn to do before I die is learn to sing and play harmonica... Though not at the same time, well.. unless it's though a harp into a bullet mic plugged into a delay pedal and distorted valve amp.. Now that is a monster tone... |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Nov 19 - 03:26 AM Donovan was mentioned above. Here's an example, with Crystal Gayle: |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: John MacKenzie Date: 22 Nov 19 - 04:31 AM I treated myself to a Hohner Flexrack, which is adjustable several ways, and it certainly makes a difference. What I always found with all the other racks I've tried, is that they present the harp at a downward angle, and make playing very hit and miss. https://www.hohner.de/en/instruments/harmonicas/accessories/flexrack |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Nov 19 - 05:09 AM A brilliant rack player is Rick Epping. He plays the harmonica and concertina at the same time and begod he's good. Nice chap too! |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Nov 19 - 05:14 AM Iain Grant (who I think Steve may have met) usually played a set of tremolo diatonics on a six-way spindle. You can't get your hand behind the moothie that way so I guess it must be much like a rack? Iain was a superb melodic player, and while I never saw him use a rack, I know he did once - he entered a trad music duet competition, between himself on moothie and himself on electronic bagpipes. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Nov 19 - 09:26 AM ...and come to think of it, Iain would mostly use a single moothie for slow airs, where he'd want to get the best control of pitch and dynamics possible. Steve's posts explain why. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: meself Date: 22 Nov 19 - 11:12 AM Not 'folk' - but I think you'd agree that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wDtPLmwG38&list=FLDl8bUGgkIXs9uMYblKsqBQ&index= manages to do a passable job. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Nov 19 - 01:21 PM I don't recall him, Jack, though I can't be relied on that way :-( Those spindles of six are amazing but I couldn't handle such a thing! Many Chinese tremolo players bolt two harmonicas one above the other, a semitone apart, the thinking being that all notes are then available. I tried rigging that up for myself but my frontal head conformation seems somehow wrong for it. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: punkfolkrocker Date: 22 Nov 19 - 01:48 PM I'd like to see someone attempt to play guitar and melodica at the same time... neck racked would be even more entertaining... |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Jack Campin Date: 22 Nov 19 - 02:15 PM Eddie the diatonic player from Glasgow had a 12-way spindle of tremolo diatonics in every key, arranged in the circle of fifths. It was so heavy he had to swing his head rather than the moothies. |
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Subject: RE: Solo guitar and harmonica rack From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Nov 19 - 04:19 PM The alternative is to just stick the harps required for the medley on the table in advance and just do a quick swap. No-one notices as long as the fiddle player is carrying the change. There are YouTubes up there showing how you can do a seamless harp switch when the key changes. A bloody great big huge bunch of twelve harps (most of which are in keys that have to be paid for yet rarely used) doesn't do it for me. I need beer money. |
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