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BS: the world is going to the hogs

keberoxu 28 Nov 19 - 05:04 PM
Stilly River Sage 28 Nov 19 - 05:13 PM
robomatic 28 Nov 19 - 05:13 PM
Charmion 28 Nov 19 - 06:45 PM
keberoxu 28 Nov 19 - 07:30 PM
Senoufou 29 Nov 19 - 04:20 AM
Jack Campin 29 Nov 19 - 06:41 AM
Mr Red 29 Nov 19 - 07:50 AM
Dave Hanson 29 Nov 19 - 08:04 AM
Mrrzy 29 Nov 19 - 11:01 AM
gillymor 29 Nov 19 - 11:33 AM
Jack Campin 29 Nov 19 - 12:50 PM
keberoxu 29 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM
leeneia 29 Nov 19 - 01:24 PM
gillymor 29 Nov 19 - 02:51 PM
frogprince 29 Nov 19 - 03:42 PM
frogprince 29 Nov 19 - 03:46 PM
David Carter (UK) 29 Nov 19 - 03:46 PM
gillymor 29 Nov 19 - 04:12 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 19 - 05:55 PM
JennieG 29 Nov 19 - 09:26 PM
frogprince 29 Nov 19 - 10:25 PM
leeneia 30 Nov 19 - 11:56 AM
keberoxu 30 Nov 19 - 12:22 PM
Jeri 30 Nov 19 - 01:19 PM
keberoxu 01 Dec 19 - 01:19 PM
Rapparee 01 Dec 19 - 02:24 PM
Charmion 01 Dec 19 - 08:37 PM
keberoxu 02 Dec 19 - 08:54 PM
keberoxu 02 Dec 19 - 11:02 PM
keberoxu 03 Dec 19 - 02:01 PM
Senoufou 03 Dec 19 - 02:12 PM
keberoxu 03 Dec 19 - 07:05 PM
keberoxu 06 Dec 19 - 12:24 AM
Donuel 06 Dec 19 - 06:06 AM
Donuel 06 Dec 19 - 06:13 AM
Charmion 06 Dec 19 - 11:15 AM
Donuel 06 Dec 19 - 11:23 AM
Senoufou 06 Dec 19 - 11:47 AM
Donuel 06 Dec 19 - 11:51 AM
Doug Chadwick 06 Dec 19 - 12:07 PM
Donuel 06 Dec 19 - 01:19 PM

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Subject: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 05:04 PM

Gallows humo[u]r, I suppose ...
there was nothing remotely amusing about
the Texas woman showing up for work, before sunrise,
as a caregiver to an elderly couple,
unaware of the feral hogs outside the house.

Exsanguination, that's the official cause of the woman's death.

The hogs as an invasive species in the US have been around for long enough
that people have got complacent about 'em.
The spread of their geographical area has moved steadily north.
I looked closely at that national/government map
(which I can't locate today)
and there were even some counties bordering
the Connecticut River, heaven help us,
where feral hog sightings have been reported.
Look out, Canada ...


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 05:13 PM

New York Times. Links help when starting a thread on a topic like this.

USA Today.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 05:13 PM

That is a truly sad tale, and I'm no fan of hogs, but if you search youtube with intent, you'll find a score or more of folks who are very proud of taking out whole 'sounders' in high-tech valor and recording it for posterity. I'm assuming they make a lot of good eating.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Charmion
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 06:45 PM

I’m not sure that wild or feral hogs would necessarily be safe to eat, let alone tasty. Pigs catch and carry many diseases that affect humans and, because they are omnivorous, they are particularly vulnerable to some quite horrid parasites.

As for flavour, that is influenced by the beast’s diet. I’d want to know what kind of forage was available in the area where it was shot ... Speaking of shooting, a full-grown wild hog takes a lot of killing. A large-bore rifle would be my choice.

On the whole, however, I would have to be very damned desperate before I would eat one of them critters, and I would want to cook it myself. Thoroughly.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 07:30 PM

One might speculate at a remote connection between
the New Hampshire primary presidential election and

the place known as Corbin Park.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 04:20 AM

In UK, the meat from wild boar (Sus scrofa) has recently been served by gourmet restaurants. Farmers here have raised them in captivity to supply the market. The meat is apparently more tasty than ordinary pork.

However, some farmers illegally released their stock into the wild, and other boar escaped. The wild population is now around 1000, scattered around southern England, particularly the Forest of Dean.
They cause no end of problems, attacking ramblers and charging out of the bushes to savage dogs and people.

The British Wildlife organisations are very concerned and would like the problem to be addressed.

While there used to be wild boar throughout our forests in the Middle Ages (they were considered excellent game for hunting) they had died out hundreds of years ago until this recent 'invasion'.

African wild boar (Hylochoerus meinertzhageni) are huge and have vicious, sharp tusks which can slash flesh wide open. Thank goodness the gourmets in UK didn't decide they wanted to eat those!


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 06:41 AM

Hunting wild pigs was a popular activity in New Zealand when I was there and probably still is. It took a powerful gun as someone mentioned above.

New Zealand would be a better place with all introduced mammals killed off. Its acian ecosystem has been all but obliterated over 800 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 07:50 AM

I well remember a newsagent selling a magazine called "Pig Hunters' Monthly"


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 08:04 AM

Having seen wild boar raised on farms and real wild boar in the forests of Germany, they don't even come close to each other, we saw lots of boar when I was a young soldier in Germany, they were massive beasts, very unlike the ones you see on so called wild boar farms.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 11:01 AM

Somehow Raised in captivity and Wild contradict each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 11:33 AM

I worked with a guy who was a caretaker for a hunting preserve and he was allowed to take one Javelina a month as part of his compensation. He'd capture a hog and feed it on table scraps and store-bought feed for awhile and then we'd be treated to a wild time at an all night hog roast on the fringe of the Everglades.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 12:50 PM

Okay, why does this thread throw up ads featuring designer bras, Playboy models and Titian's Venus of Urbino?


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 01:23 PM

Thanks, Jack, for making me laugh. I needed that.

It depends.
I've seen what you describe,
but not today;
the computer I'm using is at a public station
and I'm not on Google Chrome for a change,
but on Microsoft Internet Explorer.
And I'm looking at this same thread,
with no throw-up ads.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: leeneia
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 01:24 PM

"Three of the four [recent] fatal attacks were by pigs wounded by hunters."

Clearly, hunting the feral pigs is not a good approach.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 02:51 PM

Not javelinas, which are not pigs, but descendants of wild European boar.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:42 PM

boar
noun: boar; plural noun: boar; plural noun: boars; noun: wild boar; plural noun: wild boars; plural noun: wild boar

    1.
    a tusked Eurasian wild pig from which domestic pigs are descended.
       the flesh of the wild boar as food.
    2.
    an uncastrated domestic male pig


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:46 PM

avelina definition: peccaryOrigin of javelinaSpanish jabalina, wild sow, feminine of jabalí, boar from Arabic (khinz?r) jabal?, literally , mountain (pig)


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 03:46 PM

Domestic pigs are Sus Scrofa subspecies domestica, and are genetically little different from wild boar (sus scrofa). In the same way that the domestic dogs are a subspecies of the grey wolf. So when domestic pigs escape in an environment which contains wild sus scrofa, of course they interbreed.

I have certainly eaten wild boar meat in France which was at least billed as not being farmed. Wild boar sausages and burgers in the UK, there I am less sure. Is the meat more tasty than, say, Gloucester Old Spot? There I am also not sure, even having eaten both.

Of course Australia, New Zealand and North America have no indigenous populations of Sus Scrofa. So all wild boar there are descended either from escaped domestic pigs, or from ones escaped from zoos, or in some parts of North America from deliberately introduced ones (why would anyone do that??)

Dave Hanson, are you sure there is not a selection effect there? The farmed boar which would have grown larger didn't do so because they have already been killed and eaten?

As for Hylochoerus (Giant Forest Hog), according to Wikipedia they have never been domesticated even in Africa. I have never eaten one of those.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: gillymor
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 04:12 PM

frogprince, I was correcting my previous post where I mistakenly identified wild European boar as javelinas or peccarys, which I used to see in Big Bend National Park in TX.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 05:55 PM

The only question apropos of the eating is whether the crackling is up to snuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: JennieG
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 09:26 PM

We have wild pigs in Oz, they do quite a lot of damage to our ecosystems.

There is a couple in our choir whose surname is Hogg, but they are nice people and do no damage.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 10:25 PM

From my earliest memory, my father would occasionally mention with amusement that a long-ago governor of Texas named his two daughters Ima Hogg and Ura Hogg. I just now googled and learned that Governor Hogg and his daughter Ima were quite real, but the existence of Ura was a popular joke.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Nov 19 - 11:56 AM

So nobody's bothered by this woman's death?

Where were all the people with guns when we needed them?


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Nov 19 - 12:22 PM

Word, Leeneia!
Word!


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Nov 19 - 01:19 PM

"So nobody's bothered by this woman's death?"

There's not enough in the world to get indignant about. Even at Mudcat, a small music-based website that now includes news of the day, and the Mudcat version of the Dead People Server, where everyone who's ever died gets a thread, there is not enough provocation. [end snark]

So not bothered by one death in the world?
Not enough to harsh my mellow.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 01:19 PM

David Carter in the UK,
I don't know what possessed Mr. Corbin, of New Hampshire's Corbin Park to do it,
but he did exactly that when he stocked it with all sorts of animals:
"214 Prussian wild boar from the Black Forest of Germany,"
according to the (online) accounts from 1956
when somebody sued the game preserve.

When Mr. Corbin had the preserve constructed, it is said,
the fencing went down three feet into the ground,
with the boars/hogs in mind.
So, if the hogs took a notion to tunnel out of the game preserve,
they had to dig deeper than three feet in order to do it.

Mr. Corbin and his succcessors in New Hampshire
reckoned without Mother Nature however.
On two occasions the fence was no impediment to the hogs:
one, during the infamous hurricane of 1938
(rare for New England to get hit with a full-force hurricane,
and that one made history),
and two, forest fires that took the fencing down.

Thus, there are escaped hogs near the Connecticut River in New Hampshire,
and some are said to have swum the river to the state of Vermont.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 02:24 PM

Should I need to shoot one I want to shoot from at least a couple hundred meters using a .45-70 and a 400 grain lead bullet. This is a case of "bigger is better."


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Charmion
Date: 01 Dec 19 - 08:37 PM

I was thinking maybe the 7.62-mm FNC1 service rifle I trained on back in the ‘70s. It had a 20-round magazine.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 08:54 PM

If it's any consolation, Jack Campin,
I'm updating this thread at
a different public-computer setup
with a different browser than before,

and the pop-up ads on the screen are
for the replacement of auto windscreens.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 11:02 PM

At the moment I am visiting the state of Arizona,
where javelinas make themselves at home.
I hope to avoid the dear little porkers.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 02:01 PM

Here's a question for the scientists etc at the Mudcat.

Hogs and bears??

In both species, the female is termed a "sow."
Are they related somehow?


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 02:12 PM

Female Guinea pigs (which are actually rodents) and badgers are also called sows. I don't think it indicates any connection between the species.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 07:05 PM

In an article about black bears in Alaska,
I just read a persuasive statement.

From the perspective of classification,
bears, although they are omnivores,
are included with other animals with claws in their paws, such as
wolves, lynxes, and wolverines,
in the order Carnivora.

The classification of Artiodactyla
includes pigs along with
deer, goats, sheep, and giraffes
which have hooves rather than paws.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 12:24 AM

Elsewhere in Texas,

feral hogs have the locals running scared.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 06:06 AM

There is a misconception - there are 2 separate species?
You can take any domestic large pig, release it into the wild and in 10 years you have an entirely different hog, fangs and all.

Reverse domestication and ancient gene adaptations re-emerge and express themselves.
The same is true for mankind, except for the fangs. 8^;


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 06:13 AM

Er... the offspring reverse evolve that is. True wild boar will only hasten the process.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 11:15 AM

Oh, humans have fangs all right, Donuel. Open your mouth; they're right up front at the corners. Of course we also have metaphorical fangs that are actually more dangerous.

I would rather trust a feral hog than some people; their behaviour is more rational.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 11:23 AM

While it is a family secret as a kid I had 2 extra canine teeth pulled on each side to make room for other teeth. I still like to play ball, be loyal and be petted behind the neck.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 11:47 AM

Fangs for the memory!


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 11:51 AM

Keep Bob Hope alive.


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 12:07 PM

A bite on the breast - fangs for the mammary.


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: the world is going to the hogs
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Dec 19 - 01:19 PM

Woof


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