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BS: New UFO measurements

Donuel 02 Dec 19 - 03:52 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 19 - 05:30 PM
Donuel 02 Dec 19 - 06:52 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 19 - 07:14 PM
Donuel 02 Dec 19 - 08:21 PM
Donuel 02 Dec 19 - 08:50 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 19 - 08:53 PM
keberoxu 02 Dec 19 - 08:56 PM
Donuel 02 Dec 19 - 10:41 PM
Donuel 03 Dec 19 - 08:53 AM
Donuel 03 Dec 19 - 09:04 AM
Steve Shaw 03 Dec 19 - 09:55 AM
Iains 03 Dec 19 - 09:59 AM
Donuel 03 Dec 19 - 02:21 PM
banjoman 04 Dec 19 - 05:24 AM
Jack Campin 04 Dec 19 - 07:09 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Dec 19 - 09:32 AM
Iains 04 Dec 19 - 09:37 AM
Jack Campin 04 Dec 19 - 09:50 AM
Donuel 04 Dec 19 - 10:40 AM
Donuel 04 Dec 19 - 11:12 AM
Donuel 04 Dec 19 - 11:58 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Dec 19 - 02:13 PM
robomatic 04 Dec 19 - 06:42 PM
Donuel 05 Dec 19 - 12:38 PM
Donuel 05 Dec 19 - 12:42 PM
Donuel 05 Dec 19 - 02:28 PM
Donuel 05 Dec 19 - 03:03 PM
Donuel 05 Dec 19 - 03:35 PM
Donuel 05 Dec 19 - 05:20 PM
Donuel 05 Dec 19 - 07:56 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Dec 19 - 08:14 PM
Donuel 05 Dec 19 - 09:24 PM
Donuel 07 Dec 19 - 05:26 PM

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Subject: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 03:52 PM

It has been my personal anecdotal experience that Naval Intelligence is the most open minded of our armed forces. They have released information to promote National Security and have given everyone a chance to decipher clues given by UFOs in light, temperature and other factors. An average temperature of the ufos that have been tracked by the Navy is 700 degrees F !
Radar when unfiltered to include ground clutter is more revealing of ufo returns. More accurate speed measuremnts now come from real time tracking. More clues have been as revealing as LIDAR is to archeology. Speaking of lidar, I would suggest that fighter gun cameras include lidar to reveal unseen detail.

What the new data can do is see if it fits various theories of propulsion or not and by process of elimination concentrate on what is left, you know like Sherlock Holmes.

Anyone can access US NAVY tracking video now
I wish Alan Hynek was here now and wouldn't have to deal with those A holes in the airforce.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 05:30 PM

UFOs my arse.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 06:52 PM

Aw shucks, you and your iminical ways.

History denial is a dangerous thing Steve.

I'm not afraid of the truth


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 07:14 PM

I'm sticking my neck fearlessly out. The only UFOs are the prosaic earthly ones that our "intelligence" forces haven't immediately spotted and identified. There are no aliens here. You know the physics so I have no idea why you cling to such notions. By the way, there are no ghosts either, no poltergeists, no evil spirits, no hauntings, no Other Side, no nothing. I've tried to tell you a thousand times that reality is wonderful, diverse and mysterious enough without the imaginings of the Harry Potter brigade. Having said that, I'm pretty good at suspending disbelief. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the sublime Marriage Of Figaro otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 08:21 PM

Well I was afraid of the sound one ufo made due to its deep bone conducting electrical vibration in the late 1990s. I was not alone. I was also a ufo researcher, hypnotist interrogator and radio ufo guest up until my wedding day.
I was shown J Alan Hynek's work on the classification of ufos at his home months before his death. It was a grid of about 32 types. One day it may be completed with answers like 'make' and 'model'. Alan remarked that he knew 3 hypnotists and we all had similar beards. The beard is gone but the interest remains.
In my life I have encountered more than 3 types. Alan never encountered even one. But those were not the most unusual experiences over the years. Except for one encounter the most memorable were reserved by remarkable humans. I have asked myself more than once, "why me?" In this decade I am in good company.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 08:50 PM

As for new measurements the Navy has underwater sonar evidence of well over 200 knots and in the atmosphere over 8,000 mph.
Hot ionized air trails ufos in motion.
There are experiments how molten sodium in circular motion can do some amazing things and can coincide with some ufo tech.

After millions of eye witnesses in the past we are now in a new epoch of evidence, tip of the iceburg, but evidence all the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 08:53 PM

"I was also a ufo researcher, hypnotist interrogator and radio ufo guest up until my wedding day."

I hope no-one was stupid enough to actually pay you...


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 08:56 PM

Remember that the late lamented John McCain was a Navy pilot.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 10:41 PM

Do you really want my tax return Steve? Oh you've simply come here for an argument? This is new information, you want down the hall to the right. yes there you go...no a little farther..

... your connections remind me of Watson from jeopardy
You've put the lamented blind horse behind the cart
At the risk of being wierdly smeared, sued and screwed, the lewd strange dude is also known as 'He who wants to be obeyed'. I do not like your old school bigotry but I respect the person.

"I would like to argue but not listen'

Your argument has strange rules like
Thou shalt not insult you with facts.
Thou shalt not insult you with truth.
Thou shalt not offend you with reason
Thou shalt not tender history but your own
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's truth
Thou shalt not take any tour sight seer before him
Thou shalt not honor any gourmet recipe but hers
Thou shalt not covet any experience but his
Thou shalt not speak of opinions until he tells you what they are.
Thou shalt see that everything is his, this land is her land

"I didn't say those were my rules and this is not the argument I wanted"

Yes it is ... besides the truth and evidence is now out there.
not even Eve's ghosts and Hogwarts fictional diversions
can deter what is specifically revealing itself.
Or we can obey Eve who can not see his/her shoes
but knows all that is above the sky.
________________________________________________

My history remains true but your argument is just a tissue of old school hate. Yes it can also be viewed as funny.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 08:53 AM

The Prophet by Donuel Gibran

And then a man stepped from the group of villagers and asked the Prophet “In these troubled times behind this veil of tears what should we be most wary of?” The Prophet said, “Beware the great long lasting lies and those who defend those lies. With this in mind, keep an eye out for the man who builds fake golden towers and temples so people may worship, pay and obey him. Having a Canadian Passport is also not a bad idea.”

Then a young woman approached the Prophet. She looked up at his pleasing appearance and asked ,”why do men seek to possess and control my body?” To this the Prophet said, “ Some men covet the divine curve, the flower of creation and some men want to have power over a woman's body in a misguided attempt to have power over creation and an advantage in the work space.”

Then a child asked, “why are some things beliefs and others just exist?” The Prophet said, “One demands evidence and the other does not. The standard of evidence should be the same but there are some who lack the reason to argue the evidence.”
“How will I ever know the difference?” asked the concerned child.
Donuel said “Unfortunately that is up to your free will in the long run.”


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 09:04 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/09/18/those-ufo-videos-are-real-navy-says-please-stop-saying-ufo/


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 09:55 AM

"Hate"? Don't say daft things, Donuel.

There are definitely unidentified flying objects. Stray planes, birds, flocks of birds, swarms of locusts, drones, bombs, bullets, missiles, you name it, all from here on Earth. There are amazing optical effects through droplet and ice crystal clouds. I even believe in ball lightning because I've seen it (it looked just like a UFO) but I'm not going to make a big thing of it. Alien UFOs are nobbut childish fantasy (which there's room for, of course, as long as we recognise it for what it is). You know the physics. You know the light years. You know that there's money to be made out of dramatising the mundane and the seriously earthbound. Reality is beautiful enough and it no needs no embellishing with fake alien fearmongering or gods or ghosts. That'll do me. Of course, I can't disprove even the stupidest notions.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Iains
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 09:59 AM

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 02:21 PM

It is not full disclosure because that would admit a Pentgon failure to back engineer or provide coherent answers, but it IS a big deal.

It is an initial invitation for the world to participate in solving a question thousands of years old.

Step one, admit the phenomena is real.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: banjoman
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 05:24 AM

So many unexplained mysteries its a bit naff to dismiss them all.
Definitely an area we should take an active interest in.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 07:09 AM

I preferred Kurt Vonnegut's take on measuring aliens in one of his books.

Length and circumference of their penises?


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 09:32 AM

Well I am definitely interested whilst at the same time mostly dismissive. The presence of aliens is a bit like the presence of God. There's plenty of fertile imagination for both but not a scrap of genuine evidence for either, and they both break all the laws of physics as we know them. But that doesn't mean I'm not interested. Ask Joe. There are times when he's found it nigh impossible to shut me up about God, even though I'm convinced that there isn't one. If I'm shown to be wrong about either I'll hold up my hands and shout fair cop, guv.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Iains
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 09:37 AM

The presence of aliens is a bit like the presence of God
they both break all the laws of physics as we know them.

speak for yourself laddie. I thought you professed to be a scientist?


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 09:50 AM

OK, how long is God's penis, then?


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 10:40 AM

Jack sucks the Universe :^/

More than half the people of the world accept ufo realities.
I believe that people have certain innate and instinctual knowledge.
Partly for survival and partly because we are made of and by the universe.

For example you probably concieve of the universe as round or curved despite being taught it is flat. WELL IT IS CURVED. PLANCK DID NOT LIE AND WITH RECENT BETTER MEASUREMENTS ITS CURVE IS EVIDENT.

Admitedly we can't think well in non intuitive quantum realities.

Make no mistake the Navy brass did not want to make the 'AFO' video public. It came from the bottom up by the pilots and outraged intel officers who were directly effected.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 11:12 AM

300 years ago aviation consisted of falling off cliffs or hot air ballooning. Look at us now.
I can imagine a culture with a billion years of 'aviation' advantage. But we are speaking of experience and not imagination.

UFO research was not my day job but the data amassed has shown me that it is ubiquitous global phenomena.

The measurments of ufo performance tells me what is possible and sometimes how it is possible.

I've mentioned my association with J Allan Hynek but I did not mention Dr. John Mack Harvard with whom I found different explanations. Mack had to go to London unfortunetly to be killed by a cab.

I found that some hypnotists shamelessly led witnesses to the point of worthless information. I saw the honor suffer from such published frauds and left the field.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 11:58 AM

Most of you have seen Dr. Hynek in a cameo if you have seen the movie Close Encounters of the 3rd kind which is from one of his books classifications of alien encounters. (Little beard, glasses and pipe)

Dr. Mack specialized (on his own time) in abduction testimony.
To this day of the hundreds I interviewed regarding abuction I found none credible.

Like Steve the boundries of my open mind still has walls.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 02:13 PM

No walls this end. I'm open to everything, given credible evidence. Even God.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 06:42 PM

Don'l ever listen to "Coast To Coast"?

Or, given your extensive background in almost everything, been ON "Coast To Coast".

I find the time travellers pique my interest more.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 12:38 PM

I didn't discover Coast to Coast with Art Bell until the Washingtom Post clued me in toward the end of the show then it was handed over to the dull, bravery bereft and religious creationist nut George Noorey.

My folks used to listen to the Amazing Randy.

C&C did cover the remote viewing decades accurately from my experience. The CIA kiled the program when it became to hot to handle. If you know what I mean.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 12:42 PM

The Time Traveler Story is still on the web. I wonder if his quest for an obsolete IBM machine succeeded. By the looks of our present, I guess he failed :^/


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 02:28 PM

Come to think of it, while I was not on the show I did dedicate a 16 sq ft painting to Art Bell - of the twin towers on fire among other disasters, 2 years before 9-11.
Consciously I made the painting to depict the pole shift but obviously the meaning changed over time.

Due to Art being under some heat/paranoia at the time and some FBI snafus, the painting was not delivered to Pahrump but was sold to a collector in TX instead.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 03:03 PM

I did some good that is still evolving with hypnosis.

I did help define hypnosis within a framework of biology and psychology. This grounds hypnosis in science and promote threapeutic/clinical applications.

Hindered by semantics and popular misconceptions, hypnosis tends to be disregarded by the mainstream of healthcare research and practice.

I called my office Hypnosis Technology to promote clinical application, professional education and research. The technology were ideas, not some hardware. This after 2 years of practice and Thrapeutic Hypnosis. On my own I saw about 12,000 clients. Toward the end I did the experimental regressions in connection with ufos'

It is well established that in healthcare encounters, language, relationships and attitudes have significant and powerful effects on outcomes, both psychologically and physiologically. Clinical hypnosis harnesses those forces for the benefit of patients—helping them help themselves, while increasing the efficiency and effectiveness of health interventions as in surgury prep and outcomes. I always had my secretary call the clients GP to ask if there were any reasons not to use hypnosis with their patient. There was never a reason or denial given.

Hypnosis is still a skill set that helps others to change their thinking and reframe concepts, experiences and beliefs in constructive, healthy ways. Like hypnosis, trance is another word that is bogus and is better served by “mind plasticity” and adaptability and PHS.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 03:35 PM

My exposure to many high strangeness encounters with the CIA, Naval Intel, Mafia, Jesuit Church, Secret Service etc, All were because of my hypnosis centric base.

It is kind of revealing that such 'power brokers' took an interest in a specialty that I had chosen to do, only for good. But as suspects go, no one had ever heard of a good hypnotist. The stereotype was always an evil hypnotist in the movies.

It is high time I gave a coherent retrospective to these events although in time it will never be found known or read or understood.

In short, Yeah, all this shit really happened! As to exactly what happened I will save it for the book I have procrastinated writing for decades.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 05:20 PM

Writing a recollective is not for puffery or defensiveness reasons but to gain a perspective I did not and could not have while I was in the midst of various diverse adventures.

If I had been a better cellist or never became enlightened by the consciousness movement, none of the hypnosis/science rabbit holes would have been created. I found having eclectic knowledge solved problems for me so I could take ideas off the shelf in new combinations, If I were creative enough. Besides I knew I wasn't the right kind of smart to be a rocket scientist.

Like everyone I can be smart in one sphere of influence and pretty dumb in others. As a kid I was told who you know is important so I gravitated to pioneers or masters of their trade in a range of disciplines. (I don't like name droppers either) so enough of that.

Curiously my innocense was a plus even in difficult hypnosis cases.
I didn't know enough to know if there was no hope so my hopefullness rubbed off. Now that I'm older and wiser I am less hopeful at times.
So enough about me, what happened to you robomatic? [;^?


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 07:56 PM

I see.   

Well I listed my pros in all honesty, now for the cons. In all honesty I have no impeccable expertise, I had no professional oversight or peer review. The dangers there is a death or lapse of expertise or group think intelligence. I'm sure there are other cons to list but they are mostly the typical messey human stuff like migrains and relationships.

Mistakes that could happen did happen because I was unaware of all the possibilities, like the woman who disappeared for 3 hours because the song 'Long Way Home' could be heard during her session from the waiting room. Her doctor called it a temporary aphasic state. Or the weight lifter who died during his workout because I did not know of his Performance Enhancement Drug Routine/Addiction.
I would call that negligence. When training a police department in the use of hypnosis to aid rape victims as well as obtain evidence, I was not a police instructor and as such, all information had to be filtered through a resistant Sargent so it was a total waste of time.
I realized there were certain individuals who seemed like therapists who did seem to monitor what my technique was like and what the messages were like so I am pretty sure there was a kind of oversight but I never knew exactly who. Like who gave me a subscribtion to the American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis?


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 08:14 PM

I want reality. Don't want no hypnotising (you wouldn't manage it on me in a million years). Don't want no homeopathic bullshit. Don't want no weird skinny needles stuck in me. Don't want no herbs, no friggin' arnica. If you have a treatment for any condition I happen to have, I want to know what the science is behind your remedy.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 19 - 09:24 PM

Anyway, the hypnosis career went against the grain of ufo enthusists since it provided no supportive evidence. I have said here that ignorance has become a virtue for an increasing number of people.
Emotion has trumped fact and reason to the point where the evidence of facts has zero impact on some people. Its been like beating a dead horse to the chant; beat a dead horse, harder, harder...beat a dead horse- A Pelaton is better exercse.

There is an epidemic around us that resembles Trumpism but has symptoms of vampirism where it only takes one bite for the victim to impulsively offend and insult and lose the ability to tell others they have been bitten. After Pense and Grassly were bitten the disease spread rapidly to Nunes and Mccarthy and nearly all Republican Senators. Forget about witch hunts (real witches are offended) you should be on the look out for Republican Vampires.
The test for this form of psychological vampirism is in the victims reaction in the presence of facts or truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: New UFO measurements
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 05:26 PM

Well this is dismaying. The official policy seems to be to keep lying
https://www.indiatoday.in/trending-news/story/ufos-are-real-videos-should-never-have-been-released-us-navy-1600711-2019-09-19


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