BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Dec 19 - 10:28 AM

Nothing so obvious to us over here, Big Al. And Iains is wrong as usual - Trump has been impeached. Hard stop. The rest of it may appear to be window dressing, but the opinions that say it doesn't really happen until it reaches the Senate are of the "wishful" variety.

The trouble with Trump will be 1) he won't leave the White House after he is unelected, 2) he'll quit right away and leave Pence in charge for the last 2.5 months, or [shudder] 3. he'll do like that sore loser governor from Kentucky and release the worst of the worst convicted murderers on the general population just to get even.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 06:55 PM

Well as you know, if you follow our posts - we all broadly agree that the UK is a pretty fucked up place, Thatcher and later Blair got up to some very blatant sleight of hand abuses of power using the hidden world of security forces.

However we do seem to have one redeeming factor. If you fall foul of the law and you get nicked - you really are in the shit. I'm not saying this is a good thing - ask the Birmingham Six.

In America however - this doesn't seem to be the case, Your President seems to have been caught in an act of wrongdoing, and the consensus of opinion in this thread seems to be whatever the evidence - he's going to walk, he's going to be President another four years.

A bit sad really.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 12:54 PM

Trump has been impeached (from CNN)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 12:49 PM

Thats why must agree on rules we invent to detail the trial together.

Another year gone of which were not fond
For it was full of fear throughout the year
If there's one more election for Trump to abscond
We may see the Presidency become a life long career

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 12:27 PM

Other authorities hold:
The Constitution doesn’t say how fast the articles must go to the Senate. Some modest delay is not inconsistent with the Constitution, or how both chambers usually work.

But an indefinite delay would pose a serious problem. Impeachment as contemplated by the Constitution does not consist merely of the vote by the House, but of the process of sending the articles to the Senate for trial. Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 11:48 AM

Errrr, Trump has been impeached.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Iains
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:50 AM

Donuel. Will Trump be impeached?
Will Pelosi off the VP as well?
Will she become President by default
Will she appoint Hilary as Santa's little helper and then resign to give Hilary the Presidency

Will the deplorables take this on the nose?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 08:45 AM

Dear British, We Amricans are currently suffering from severe Trump fatigue. Any discussion of the big Cheeto is virtually impossible.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 06:40 AM

, predicated on a lie, that killed a million innocent civilians and which visited terrorism on our countries right up to this very day.

How soon we forget, Saddam Hussein was a maverick, who threatened to harbour Al Qaeda training camps if the West threatened his fiefdom. It is believable he would do things like that. True, in that event the numbers killed would have been smaller but still significant.

Life ain't binary. As we can see from the twists and turns above. Though how you can throw peach coloured mud at an orange pile of dung and tell that there is any mud on him anyway...................

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 19 - 05:21 AM

The majority did not vote for Trump. The electoral college worked in his favour. That gives me hope that the majority of people of the US can see through his lies. You are lucky in that you have a chance to rid yourselves of him next year. We have up to 5 more years of lies in the UK before we get the same chance:-(

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Iains
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 01:46 PM

Pelosi is smarter than you think, Donuel. And I tend to think she's smarter than both McConnell and Trump.

No doubt Corbyn thought the same in the UK.
Dismissing Trump supporters as populists is a denial of democracy. Insulting the majority does nor win votes. Calling them Deplorables, racists misogynists may make you feel better, but does not win votes for you.
Pelosi arguing standard procedures can be bypassed because of the severity of the problem sorta loses credibility when she stalls at the last hurdle. Rush rush to delay suggests legal ploys were based on myth rumour and fantasy.
I predict it will rebound on Democrats with a vengeance.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 01:10 PM

So, McConnell delayed Obama's last Supreme Court appointment until after the election, saying he would "let the people decide." The impeachment in the House was a benefit to the Democrats, but the trial in a Republican Senate is not. Maybe Pelosi should keep delaying the Articles of Impeachment until November, and "let the people decide"?
It would also serve to keep Trump at a disadvantage for the whole of 2020. Pelosi is smarter than you think, Donuel. And I tend to think she's smarter than both McConnell and Trump.
At the very least, Pelosi deserves to be able to compel Trump Administration officials to testify in the trial. If McConnell won't allow witnesses, then Pelosi should hold out until the election...and "let the people decide."
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 11:10 AM

meself... No, McConnell pushing thru judges is not 'directly' relevant to the impeachment trial, but it is important to understand that it a major reason for McConnell's attitude.
    As was mentioned above, Republicans see changing demographics and the decline of 'general' religion as threatening their power, so, like authoritarians everywhere, they resort to even more Draconian measures to cement their hold on their base and are trying to pack courts with judges to guarantee as many wins as possible as they purge voter rolls, intimidate migrants, vote themselves lenient tax laws, etc... etc.

   IF they can hold on to the Senate and the presidency for another 4 years, they can make serious inroads into their ultimate goal of keeping power even as a minority party, much as Saddam Hussein did for years in Iraq. No.. it can't last forever, but the current batch.. as far as I can tell.... seems to think.."Well, no matter what happens 10-20 years from now, at least *I* can coast during *my* lifetime!" Cynical? Yeah...

   The serious goal for Democrats right now... beyond dumping Trump... is to keep control of the House... because controlling the House means controlling the census and being able to undo the Gerrymandering of voting districts. And of course, the new, often unqualified, batch of conservative judges will try to derail that plan! If the current attempts to purge voter rolls and restrict minority voters is successful in just a few swing states, the &$@#^&* electoral college may keep electing Republicans, no matter what the majority vote is! Hillary beat Trump by 3,000,000 in 2016. It could be even worse if they control voting machines and **foreign interference** keeps happening.

So.. impeachment is just a way to make a point. Defeating McConnell would make a HUGE point. Winning the Senate would scare the Republicans badly, but beating Trump is the most likely. There's a lot to do this coming year.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mossback
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 10:53 AM

Joe,
RE: yours of 19 Dec 19 - 11:09 PM. All perfectly true, but your statement that the prosecuting counsel is Mitch McConnell is still incorrect.

Jeri,
RE: while Trump's brain-dead followers are loud, there aren't large numbers of them.

I suppose that depends upon what you call a large number. Taking recent polls into account (for whatever they're worth) and the number of voting-age people in the U.S. as ca. 235 million ---

we're talking somewhere around 94 million moronic Trump cultists infesting the body politic. That's certainly more than large enough to place the country in very, very deep shit, Trump of no Trump- for the forseeable future.

God help Amerikkka.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 10:49 AM

But he was impeached! I am so surprised!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 08:31 AM

Whatever 'sticks to the wall', however false, is what will be exploited the most for public consumption.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 08:27 AM

McConnel may be caught in the trap of announcing he is taking the opposite stand to the oath he must deliver regarding impartiality.
Moscow Mitch needs only to lie but the people will not forget his initial statement "I am in total coordination with the white house"

As with most politics, whatever sticks to the however fase is what will be exploited the most.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 19 - 08:18 AM

dubious. Republicans have proved they do not abide by rules even when those rules originate with republicans. There is no Pelosi grand strategy here despite the theory Joe has seen in the media. However the longer impeachment continues without a possibility for acquital the more interesting things become.

Back to why people like Trump. Immortal people (corporations) enjoy the tax break Trump has given them. Now 91 of Americas largest corporations pay no income tax what so ever. The one percent are in line with Trump as long as business grows stronger even if dmocracy grows weaker.

The religious right has forsaken Jesus teachings for grandios Trump power and court appointees.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 11:09 PM

Yes, Mossback, the "managers" from the House will present the case, like prosecuting attorneys do in a usual court trial - but they don't have the power that prosecuting attorneys usually have. The rules for the process of the case are set by none other than Mitch McConnell, who may well be able to orchestrate the unfolding of the case exactly as he sees fit.
So, while the managers may have many of the functions of district attorney in a trial, it is McConnell who holds most of the power of a district attorney. The managers will be actors in the play - but McConnell will write the script. That's why Speaker Nancy Pelosi is not sending the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate right away. That would forfeit what little power the House has left at this point. She wants leverage to force McConnell to play fair, by forcing him to set the rules before the Articles of Impeachment are sent to the Senate.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 09:43 PM

For the last 100 years the Republican King makers have seen 'usefull idiot Presidents' as gifts from heaven. Now so does Russia.
Weaponized cruelty is the only thing on the menu at Trump TV rallies.
They are similar to right wing rude radio shock jocks.
People expect it and they get it. Donald is the Don Rickles of vindictive politics.
The cruelty of the show is the center of it. Donald is out there doing the worst kind of sadism which is to exploit the pain of grieving, whether its the parents of dead soldiers or the wives of deceased Congressmen or Senators like McCain.
The next day it is explained away by some anodyne statement like "He could have said it differently". So people are entertained by that Schaudenfreude secret pleasure of smacking down other people.

Why else do people like him? Ask people why they like him and you get the gutteral feeling of a backlash against authority, be it the FBI or CIA or anyone they don't like. Regular people are not driven
by poliicy or even the Constitution. Its immature and ill informed revenge.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 06:37 PM

Well "far-left" Corbyn voted again the Iraq invasion, unlike "centre ground" Blair (and just about every Tory) who voted for a strategy, predicated on a lie, that killed a million innocent civilians and which visited terrorism on our countries right up to this very day.

I'm far gloomier than you, Jeri. The populist agenda is so firmly set that Trump will only be strengthened by this. I seriously want to be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 05:17 PM

Pelosi is playing a very smart game.
I told someone way-back-when that I didn't think Trump would be nominated, but if he was, it would change the Republican party completely. I think we're watching its very slow demise. They are not running for re-election, or they are being defeated in surprising places, and while Trump's brain-dead followers are loud, there aren't large numbers of them.

I think the "win" in the impeachment business is simply tacking the shame of it onto him. I think the Senate will say the criminal activity is fine, just fine, and everyone will see them do that. I don't know if that will change anything, but it's certainly going to stick.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 05:15 PM

The House is off for 2 weeks anyway for New Years. If however the 'holding pattern' continues much past the Super Bowl then new problems could appear.
There is only one sentence in the Constitution about this,"the Senate will then hold a trial".

The -rule writers- could not have imagined the Senate leader AND President would be beholdin to the same foriegn power.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: meself
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 05:02 PM

"It is **almost** impossible that anything will change while McConnell is able to fill courts with conservative judges..." But that has nothing to do with the impeachment trial - does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 04:30 PM

Al... it's not a 'trial' in the sense of a court. In the judicial system, there are clear rules and a citizen's jury. Impeachment sends the case to the Senate... which conducts itself however it decides to... using rules under the control of McConnell. When Nixon was almost impeached, most senators were already convinced of his guilt.. they told him he had only a few votes, so he resigned.
   When Clinton was impeached, the senate discussed rules and voted 100-0 on how the 'trial' would be handled, and he was not convicted.
Now, there is an entirely different attitude among Republicans, and they are in the majority with at least two promising that there is NO chance of a conviction of Trump. It is **almost** impossible that anything will change while McConnell is able to fill courts with conservative judges... so there is no chance of getting 2/3 majority needed to remove Trump.

Right now, the Democrats are in a holding pattern about when.. and if... to send the case TO the Senate. The impeachment does not expire...ever... so if the senate remains a lost cause, it is possible to just wait and see in Trump can actually get re-elected... then send the case over for trial in a year.

There's no easy answer... the deck is stacked and only the voters can remove this &@$$%^!#...

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: meself
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 02:46 PM

" ... the Senate cannot acqit" - Seriously, are you serious?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 02:34 PM

Well surely if they prove he is a crook, and the evidence was presented in a way that is clear to everyone, then the Senate cannot acqit. I think Trump would make an unimpressive witness cross examined by a counsel who knew how to keep him in his place and defuse all the bumptiousness.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mossback
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 02:22 PM

And the prosecuting counsel is Mitch McConnell,

Not.

The prosecuting counsel, such as they are, will be a team of lawmakers from the House, known as managers, appointed by Nancy Pelosi.

As for Punchy Pirate..... that's likely Nunes.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 02:15 PM

I presume Pelosi has joined Trump's dream team for the upcoming Presidential Election. First appearances suggest the tactic is working well.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 12:51 PM

[In the voice of Suzy Sorority of the Silent Majority] Rah!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 10:53 AM

Al Whittle sez: if theres a trial - doesn't the result depend to some extent on the skill of the prosecuting counsel?

Joe sez: And the prosecuting counsel is Mitch McConnell, the Majority Leader of the Senate and a big Trump fan.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 09:51 AM

Pontius was a shit pilot anyway, high flier with feet of clay - never got off the ground.............

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 06:49 AM

Theres plenty to be ashamed about.
Particularly the recorded words pf Republican Congressmen.

They said it ws a shit show, The Impeachment process was as bad as Stalin, McCarthy, Pearl Harbor BUT it was WORSE than the cruxificction of Jesus Christ by Ponchess Pilot.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 05:12 AM

the Democrats have a good chance of taking the Presidency and the House and Senate in 2020

Sorry Joe, but the lesson from UK politics is not to have a divided opposition, and not to have a leader so burdened with his/her baggage that it gives mixed or refused messages.

And FWIW I predicted Corbin would never be prime minister based on similarities with Michael Foot. (forget the differences). Principles are all very well (maybe), but when the fight is against a pugnacious lier & cheat, that sensible people laugh at, don't laugh too soon!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 04:51 AM

if theres a trial - doesn't the result depend to some extent on the skill of the prosecuting counsel?

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 03:35 AM

Joe, I think Trumps foreign policy gives the lie to russian collusion.
I would argue the war in Syria was a energy and pipeline war. Quatari gas wanted a pipeline through Syria to Europe.
Russia wanted their nordstream pipeline to supply europe, as they controlled the taps. Assad did not want to play ball, hence the war. The US is still ensconced over the oil fields around deir er-zor in the north east.
(BBC)"he US announced a withdrawal of its forces from northern Syria in October, but has since said it would retain around 500 troops to guard oil facilities, along with Kurdish-led forces, who are currently the main beneficiaries of the production.

US Defence Secretary Mark Esper has said US troops are there to guard against not only Islamic State fighters but also Russian and Syrian government forces.

For their part, Russian forces are helping Syrians try to regain control of oil production and have their eyes on these facilities."

We're keeping the oil, remember that. We want to keep the oil. Forty-five million dollars a month."
Donald Trump
US President
All Syria has is the small Ash Shaer field west of Palmyra.

Putin's puppet does not compute - Sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 02:49 AM

Well, we've succeeded in impeaching him, and we're not ashamed at all. In fact, we're rather proud of succeeding in the third impeachment of a U.S. President.
The U.S. Senate has never convicted a President after impeachment, and I don't think it will happen this time. Trump will do his best to play the martyr and try to turn the Senate acquittal into a "win," but I think the Democrats have a good chance of taking the Presidency and the House and Senate in 2020.
The Ukraine issue is relatively minor, but I think it supports the greater issue - that Trump has catered to Putin to the point where he can be considered to be Putin's puppet.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Iains
Date: 19 Dec 19 - 02:33 AM

I have a suspicion this impeachment/attempted coup will come back to haunt the Democrats come election time. The deplorables will exact a terrible revenge. Look at the election results in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 04:23 PM

Its an interesting one.

Trump has done almost exactly what Nixon did. He has used the security services and machinery of the law   against his domestic political opponents, allegedly. And this we are told is against the law of the land.

Don't you find he has an odd way of expressing himself? There was this clip of him saying he had written a perfect phone call/communication with the Ukraine bloke.

Strange word... not perfectly legal, but perfect.

he's got more chutzpah than Al Jolson singing Mammy. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get away with whatever it is that he's done.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Elmore
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 04:03 PM

I want the orange clown impeached, but watching these guys work today is worse than watching the making of sausage.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 09:20 AM

The fan already stinks.
I am preparing what youe guys call a considered post for later.
I only roughly quoted you but the second half of your assumption for the future has yet to come to pass. It is unlikely to happen because Republican Senators are too scared,
yet
one can not be brave without being scared, so there is a glimmer of hope there will be 2 brave Senators.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 04:07 AM

Three years ago Mr. Red wrote that th Republicans want Trump to get the courts staffed full of republicans and then find a good reason to get rid of him

So I was right - predicting the future, in these interesting times, is bound to trip you up.
Or is it..................................?

Wake me up when the S hits the F.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 08:42 PM

I assumed there is a bunker in Mara Lago.
But you could be right

Bannon is already in Italy.
Still
There is always Argentina.

Predictions are dangerous but Bill's is classic

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 08:34 PM

I'm glad they are impeaching him, even if we KNOW the senate would not convict him. It's a note for History about "..the slimey bathtub ring"

If he's not removed, he'll serve till the election. If he loses the election, watch for him to resign and Pence to "do a Ford" and pardon him for federal crimes. Then... you read it here first... watch for him to look overseas for escape.... and wouldn't it be funny to see Putin & Erdogan refuse? Maybe the Philippines?

Even funnier to see marshals waiting at the Democrat inauguration...if he attends.

Much to muse on.. less than a year to wait.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 08:06 PM

Yes I am proud of the impeachment if only to highlight the slimey bathtub ring Trump has left around America.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Dec 19 - 12:51 PM

Three years ago Mr. Red wrote that th Republicans want Trump to get the courts staffed full of republicans and then find a good reason to get rid of him.

I thought he was right but that is not the case.

Primary elections are being cancelled allowing only Trump to be the candidate, republican Senators are called upon to vote for Trump to be innocent of obstruction of Congress.
Constitution be damned so that power can be retined by ignoring the Constitution. All this by the party who claimed that the founding fathers were only on thier side.

The vote is today to impech but chairman Nadler is attending to his sick wife. I hope Putin poison is not the cause but nothing would surprise me anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:25 AM

I can't see any connection between Trump and the English election

You don't have 2020 vision!

Austria, Marine le Pen, the warmonger in Turkey, Putin has been around for many stolen elections and many other movements to be taken into account. The angry mob are in the ascendancy, it is a worldwide phenomenon.

You have to look up, not in. And sideways isn't a bad policy either. There is a lot of trouble out there beyond the blinkers.

We are living in interesting times, predicting the future is always fraught, but recently unwise. But it shouldn't stop you being wary. Yet it does obviously.

If you thought global warming had no effect think again. We are heading for a car crash and we know it! We are ALL taking what we can before there is none.

Except, possibly, you and me, and I am not so sure about you!:)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 03:41 PM

I can't see any connection between Trump and the English election.

Of course the FBI are looking into him if he's a crook. To suggest that arresting a crook who happens to be President is an act of treason is nonsense.

You know what the principle is (as it says in the Lonesome Death of Hattie Carrol) - 'the letter of the law has no top and no bottom'. (Even if Jim says its not folk music!)

Being President is not an acceptable line of defence - as Richard Nixon found out.

Wrongdoing is wrongdoing.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 03:21 PM

Well Donuel we may well have to wait a few years to see who is right and who is wrong. Ad hominem attacks may make you feel better but do not really address the subject matter. Who authors a piece is irrelevant. It is what they may have to say that is of importance. Either the Democrats or Republicans are on the side of the angels.
I think Trump is favourite for another term.

It is a salutary fact that despite the machinations and propaganda of the left in the UK they lost resoundingly in the recent election. For some inexplicable reason they were convinced they would win, despite adopting a position on brexit of both being for in and out. (on an election based on brexit such a stance is self cancelling.( Not too bright a tactic, as events demonstrated)

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 11:56 AM

Trollish Iains. By Kunstler's or Dershowitz's standards our mothers were all perpetrators.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 09:52 AM

An alternative screed makes compelling reading


https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/the-war-of-the-narratives/

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 08:19 AM

Come to that we never got to the bottom of WMDs and Blair.

Did we ever get to the bottom of the Roger Casement case. Were the black diaris forged?

Our secority services do their own thing. I couldn't believe Thatcher stayed out of jail over the Spycatcher business. From her strenuous efforts to get the book banned, I don't think she could believe she'd get away with it either.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 08:08 AM

A presidential pardon only applies to federal crimes. A preemptive pardon a la Ford/Nixon would provide no protection from state charges. If the state of New York has enough evidence to pursue tax evasion charges against Trump, there's nothing anyone on the federal level can do about it. Only a state's governor can issue a pardon for state crimes, and the chances of Andrew Cuomo pardoning Trump are nonexistent.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 06:29 AM

The attempt at impeachment will fail in the senate, and only embolden his followers, even if it is a warning shot to him (all bets are off on that!).
Well, not to be too Brexitist about this, but experience tells us, and I was right the first time (in this parish). Re 2020.................

"Be afraid America, be very afraid"

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:22 PM

Not now. Once he's out of office, if anyone decides to pursue the cases, he's toast. Unless someone pulls a Gerald Ford and pardons him just to avoid all of the trauma of the trial. At least Twitter could probably close his account, that would be enough torture for the putz.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:56 PM

It is. But we can't throw the bastard in jail is what I'm saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:53 PM

well its a reckoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:52 PM

Sorry, Al, but impeachment hasn't got anything to do with the US legal system. Even if found utterly guilty, yer man can't be fined or imprisoned. He can be removed from office and that's it.

Subject: BS: Don't be ashamed of impeachment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:20 PM

I can remember at the time of Nixon being threatened with impeachment, I was talking to an American friend, and he said he was bitterly ashamed of his country and what was going on.

I remeber saying to him that he shouldn't be ashamed. In fact it showed that the legal system of his country worked.

Furthermore I was willing to bet that if any Prime Minister in England had been up to dirty dog tricks, i am pretty sure that MI5 or some shadowwy organisation like that would hush it all up.

In a way it showed that they had a more open society than us.

What do other people think?