BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 06:05 AM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:54 PM
"The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016.

A didactic statement. Jeremy Corbyn claims to have voted remain, but this goes against his previous opposition to the EU. The referendum was a secret ballot, so we only have Jeremy Corbyn's word for how he voted.
Do we suddenly start believing everything that politicians say?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 06:37 AM

That's up to you, but Stanron is predicating his argument on some weird certainty of his that Corbyn is a liar. Jeremy may be many things but I wouldn't call him a liar. If he sez he voted remain, I tend to accept it. If you dig a bit deeper into his quotes before the referendum you'll see that his claim to have voted remain fits what he was saying. I'm not doing it now because I'm off to my mum's care home. By the way, there nothing wrong with being a reluctant remainer. They are the people who probably thought about it the most before voting, aren't they? If only the brain-dead, xenophobe leavers, of whom there were millions, had engaged in the same way we wouldn't be in this horrible mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 07:12 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Stanron is predicating his argument on some weird certainty of his that Corbyn is a liar.

I never said, and I never thought, that Corbyn was or is a liar. I pointed out that before becoming leader he was anti EU. When he became leader he led on the party line, pro EU, and not his own personal preference, anti EU.

I have heard it said that Labour party policy is set at conference. Momentum started by gaining control of local groups. They have expanded their influence and now control the central position of power in the party. They are in a position where they can control what conference debates and possibly what conference decides. Momentum is now leading the party.

They don't want a leader elected, they want a figurehead.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 07:32 AM

People are allowed to change their minds, Stanron. He may well have been anti EU in the past and then saw the light.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 08:28 AM

It's not that difficult to understand Corbyn's dilemma, if that's what it was...

I don't see a too tremendous personal inner conflict in being against a political body in principle,
but reluctantly accepting that alternatives would most likely be even worse...???

That's something like my own fairly informed reason for voting remain..

I accepted that it was more sense,
and a probably more powerful position,
to try to actively change and improve the EU as a member within...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM

"When he became leader he led on the party line, pro EU, and not his own personal preference, anti EU."

You are persisting with the tosh that he was anti-EU even though he voted remain (which I assume you now accept as you insist you're not calling him a liar). Whatever else you think of Corbyn, he does have a mind of his own and, like the rest of us on the left, he is a person of conviction - and also a person perfectly capable of changing his mind as circumstances change (I certainly changed MY mind about the need for revolution decades ago). Generally speaking, I would say that anti-EU people did not vote remain. Duh. As I said, his various statements made not long before the referendum are completely in sync with his stated remain vote. Now instead of sticking to your smears (Jeremy's going now, in case you haven't noticed, so no need to waste any more energy on him) why not do what I did and go and look up what I said?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 11:32 AM

Does anyone really care how compo voted? He is now consigned to the dustbin of history, thrust into the compost bin on his allotment to wither away like the rot he tried to fool the electorate with.
As Pater Johnson said:
"I think that the best possible thing would be for Labour to continue down the suicide route which it embarked upon.”
he added: “And in that context, I long for Bailey, Rebecca Long-Bailey. “I think that she would do the job superbly.“Labour would be unelectable for the foreseeable future!”.
Also
LABOUR leadership frontrunner Sir Keir Starmer launched his leadership campaign in Manchester, urging his party to "build on" Jeremy Corbyn's legacy, hinting at an even more radical future for the Labour Party.
It is clear the denial of reality runs deep in Labour. I had hoped it was only manifested by the extreme left posting here, but in Labour it is both systemic and endemic.
We have nothing to fear from labour for decades! The patient refuses the only cure.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 11:53 AM

WE can always hope the tories get caught out and exposed again
for serious corruption and depravity scandals...
[Despite all their anticipated damage limitation media cover ups]..

Another one's due fairly soon.....

It's not an unrealistic expectation, which Labour would benefit well from...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 08:07 PM

The main difference between Boris and his dad is that one is a bumbling younger idiot and the other is a bumbling older idiot. The star of Any Questions by a long chalk was the lovely Ash Sarkar. I was utterly bloody amazed at the positive reception she got in Lanson town hall. Lanson is not exactly known for its leftie sentiment (it's about 15 miles down the road from me and I'm there most weeks, mainly for Tesco and Specsavers), and it's solid Tory country these days, but she was cheered to the rafters more than once for her clear-sighted, balanced and articulate - and succinct - contributions. Ash is a Marxist-communist, which I am not (never read any Marx in my life), but she was the shining star on that otherwise tawdry panel. And I have a couple of beefs with Chris Morris, who, until now, I'd thought was sort of OK...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:42 AM

The main difference between Boris and his dad is that one is a bumbling younger idiot and the other is a bumbling older idiot.
Both are very useful idiots, whereas compo is a useless idiot, and useless by any other metric, other than losing.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 02:13 PM

come on you leaver types, admit it - you were sold a stupid lie and you bought it. again. you can't remember why it was supposed to be a good idea but you feel you have to carry on the pretence. it's hard to pretend you don't care about your kids (and mine)and their friends and are longing to reconnect. let it go.....you can be a good, positive person again. just buy your nearest remainer in the pub a pint...a wee apology...and we can forget all this nonsense ever happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 02:55 PM

`Workingtonman it seems to me that you are the one, among many, who was sold an untruth, or a series of untruths, and are not yet able to admit it. When you are I will be willing to accept a pint from you with no hard feelings at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:09 PM

Whichever side lied the most...

Let's see if me and mine get better or worse off in the coming years...???

As long as Brexiteers are prepared to apologise
and reimburse us for any losses their obsession causes us....

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: peteglasgow
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:20 PM

something that is never mentioned in this debate is peace. peace between nations and peace and respect between englsh people. the whole thing is crazy - there is no real reason to rip up any reason to co-operate between us. if there was you might have told us by now. just relax, light a spliff and think - what the fuck was i thinking? it's all totally unnecessary, innit? really?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 07:44 PM

From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:09 PM
Whichever side lied the most...
Let's see if me and mine get better or worse off in the coming years...???
As long as Brexiteers are prepared to apologise
and reimburse us for any losses their obsession causes us....

As long as you're prepared to pay those who voted to leave for any benefits you receive, and when the apocalypse foretold by the Remain supporters fails to come true.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 02:44 AM

You have some catching up to do alresdy, Nigel

Cost of voting leave

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 03:56 AM

Marr on Sunday has some stunning interviews. It would appear Labour Leader front runners are convinced the electorate were wrong and they are right. Arrogance and abject stupidity guarantee that as a party Labour are finished. Time and numbers are not on thornberry's side to even make it onto the shortlist. Obviously the tories are by no means alone when it comes to detesting her. A Labour split is the only way to salvage a viable opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 05:27 AM

You have some catching up to do alresdy, Nigel
Cost of voting leave (link to Independent)

That is an opinion of how much we may have lost due to missed sales/growth. It is not really something which has any method of proof. It is also rather old news (April 2019) and talks about the damage being caused by uncertainty over what will happen. We now have a clear leaving date, and a Parliament in which the influence of those trying to prevent us leaving has been virtually removed.
"A week is a long time in politics", nine months even more so.

It appears that remainers rely on the "Jim Bowen school of economics": "Let's see what you could have won".

Where (after the initial referendum) we were able to compare the UK economy with the pre-referendum scare stories of remainers, we could clearly see them for what they were.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:49 AM

It appears that remainers rely on the "Jim Bowen school of economics"

The vast majority of economists, industry captains and political pundits agree that leaving the EU will cost us money. Which school of economics do you rely on, Nigel? The Rupert Murdoch institute? The Daily Mail academy? The Hogwarts school of making unicorns appear? We have been asking for three and a half years now for you to give us some details of anyone, who knows what they are talking about, saying that we will benefit. All you offer are tired platitudes about it all turning out ok. Eventualy.

Even other leave posters on here have said that we will suffer financially at first but it should get better. Yet they will not put a time limit on that. How about you doing that? When will we, the ordinary people, start to benefit financially? How long will it take to make up for the initial losses suffered?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 06:51 AM

Sorry for the duff HTML. Only the first line of my last post should be italicised.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:08 AM

A gem from Guido
https://order-order.com/2020/01/13/labour-mps-slam-party-hustings-locations/
and another
https://order-order.com/2020/01/13/rayner-compares-northern-accent-black/

Does Labour hate Mondays more than Bob the boomer?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:24 AM

”Naturally therefore with their desire to win back former heartlands, Labour’s NEC last night announced their leadership husting locations – namely: not a single one in......the North West

Liverpool, 18th January
Durham, 25th January
Bristol, 1st February
Cardiff, 2nd February
Birmingham, 9th February
Glasgow, 15th February
London, 16th February”

The criminal, drunk-driver, Right-Wing Extremist Staines demonstrating once again what a dense, ill-educated cock he truly is. He should have spent more time paying attention in his school geography classes....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_West_England

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:48 AM

Date: 13 Jan 20 - 08:24 AM Hilarious!
as is:

https://order-order.com/2020/01/12/long-bailey-think-labour-lost/

Good old Guido has his finger on the pulse, enumerating labour's continuing insanity.

As Brian Wilson said: "There is a chance for Labour if we listen. Another dud leader and it could be all over"

I recommend they listen to the electorate rather than their deluded selves.
Any more for the oblivion express?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:04 AM

"As long as you're prepared to pay those who voted to leave for any benefits you receive, and when the apocalypse foretold by the Remain supporters fails to come true."

errmm... no.. no.. no..

It is the primary default job of all politicians and their advisors to maintain and try to improve
the living conditions of all citizens in our nation..
Not just those who voted for them...!!!

Nigel - I won't expect brexiteer fanatics to ever take any responsibility if their dream turns to long term nightmare
for our economy and ordinary citizens.
Brexiteer zealots will always find ways to shift the blame to anyone but themselves
for a disaster they caused...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:08 AM

"As Brian Wilson said: "There is a chance for Labour if we listen. Another dud leader and it could be all over""

Probably not one of The Beach Boys most memorable surfing songs...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:13 AM

I don't know why you bother following the links, BWM. You know it's going to be a bag of shite!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:31 AM

But the gnome knows in his heart of hearts the links are absolutely correct.
If there is no change, shortly there will be no labour. As sure as night follows day. NO possibility of denial for you I am afraid. The electorate has spoken and as a result Labour is a pale shadow of its former self. Entirely self inflicted as well. Boris is unassailable!
ain't life great?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 10:36 AM

”I don't know why you bother following the links, BWM. You know it's going to be a bag of shite!”

Shitz ‘n’ giggles, Dave! I get some good laughs reading his undisguised, nonsensical Extreme Right Wing propaganda, and considerable amusement seeing who’s soft-enough in the head to set any store by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:05 AM

Rebecca Long-Bailey, Lisa Nandy, Jess Phillips, Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry all secured enough votes from their Labour colleagues to make the cut.
Not an original thought off any of them. The wilderness beckons!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:19 AM

the links are absolutely correct

Absolutely correct facts like Liverpool not being in the North West of England?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:20 AM

Iains - regarding original thoughts.. ahem... cough.. guido..

So try not to crib guido for this..

Seeing as you are so interested, which labour politician do you want to be next leader...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:24 AM

I like all the original thoughts that BoJo has too, PFR. He couldn't say what the weather was doing unless his pal Dom told him first.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:28 AM

Abbreviating his name just gave me another idea. Dom is not short for Dominic at all. More likely Dominator. Boris was a public schoolboy after all :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:28 AM

So whe does Dominic Cumbiscuit get his ideas from...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:31 AM

Public boarding schools and S&M go together hand in..

errrmm best leave that there, this is a family friendly forum...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:31 AM

Cummings and Johnson - Dom & Dumber.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:52 AM

Mock to your heart's content. We hold all the cards, the power and the glory, likely for ever and ever, judging by the dismal opposition candidates. Time for you all to study the cuisine of Witchetty grubs and similar delights, at least Churchill had Chartwell during his wilderness years.
You have not one candidate that would make a competent opposition leader
and you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 11:59 AM

Iains - Well the choice for tory prime minister is a laughing stock,
and he sacked most of the sensible decent tories..

Just because your lot have all the power at the moment,
don't mean you can ever be trusted with it...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 12:53 PM

Whether Tories can be trusted or not is a moot point.
What is not a moot point is that there is jack shit you can do about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:00 PM

Yet more potential hurdles for Johnson to surmount.

I had already suggested that the Fishing Industry would in all likelihood be sold down the river. This report seems to echo that sentiment.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/13/city-access-eu-markets-eu-fleets-uk-fishing-rights-brexit

Second the issue with the Irish border is raising it's head again. Officals within Government are suggesting it could take five years to create a viable computerised system for dealing with trade and possibly see the UK Government in court.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/13/brexit-irish-border-uk-northern-ireland

Get Brexit done …….. yeah right!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:27 PM

Using the gruniard as a bible and constantly quoting it explains why labour is now a spent force.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:37 PM

"Whether Tories can be trusted or not is a moot point.
What is not a moot point is that there is jack shit you can do about it."

There is at least bare naked honesty in admitting
your side ruthlessly seized all the power and will do whatever they like with it,
no matter how reckless or corrupt - so f@ck any reasonable objection and opposition...

well done, right wing junta...


[no... "junta" is not a misspelling....]

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:39 PM

Good to see we are getting a nice easy deal from Australia as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 04:07 PM

As expected absolutely NO response to the actual content of the reports.

As per usual no concept of the issues at play.

It's a bit like having an unintelligent puppy, fun at times but ultimately very boring.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 03:16 AM

It's a bit like having an unintelligent puppy, fun at times but ultimately very boring.
Just like taking the piss out of you opinionated leftie losers! All mouth and no trousers springs to mind.
Rather like those winning labour policies that were so stunningly popular with the electorate,
How many seats did you lose? and how many allegiance switching traitors lost their seats?

Your faux outrage is a source of constant hilarity.
You backed a pathetic leader of a pathetic party with even more pathetic policies.
It really is time you accepted the truth and paid homage to the unassailable might of Bojo.
A toon for us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmd4OLzhQw0

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:13 AM

IGNORE. THE. TROLL. (And yes, I’m shouting!).

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 03:51 AM

A Corbyn clone is heading the race for the Labour party leadership election! This choice clearly demonstrates that Labour has learnt nothing from its recent historic defeat. This prospective leader will totally alienate the electorate (Presumably this is why one newspaper described her as an alien)
Brought to you by Guido:

https://order-order.com/2020/01/16/long-bailey-slips-ahead-latest-labour-leader-poll/
The comments are quite telling.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 03:14 AM

Every human comes with baggage, naturally. One of the things the candidate has to be prepared for is the extent and the viscous was of the attacks. I read last night that Rebecca is a practicing Catholic. Nothing wrong in that, so am I. But there is no doubt whatsoever that some branches of the media will see a "Tim Fallon" style attack as a new weapon in their arsenal.

As we see here, attacks are never limited to the policies: anything all all is used, such a references to Diane Abbott's weight. Similarly, Rory Stewart, for example, was attacked as much for his appearance as his policies, it was a talking point for days that he took his tie off.

One of Corbyn's great strengths was his ability to disregard most of these attacks, but it did him no good in the end because the voters didn't. Whoever comes next will need to find a different strategy to overcome them. Blair did so essentially by being so close to the media that they didn't really attack him, and in the early days he did not downplay too much policy, though even then he made some very unwise compromises.

The new leader, whoever they are, will have this as their main battle, I suspect. Even more than policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 06:09 AM

That such attacks have leached even to as innocuous area as folk music is a sad sign of the times DMcG. Luckily most people rise above the inane posts of the right wing agitators. I can only urge others to do the same and leave it to the moderation team to remove some of the more personal and pointless attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 20 - 07:05 AM

The antisemitism card has to be speedily nullified by whoever gets the job. The way things are going you'd think that the Board Of Deputies were running the party. Well nobody elected the Board Of Deputies at the ballot box and the party seriously has to get them off its back and quickly. There are antisemites in the party but their numbers are minuscule. Whataboutery apropos of Tory Islamophobia, a far worse problem, may be justified but it doesn't play well, and the right-wing media won't touch it. So quick, decisive action needs to be seen to be done. And just because you're not a Corbynite doesn't mean they won't come to get you if it doesn't happen.