Types of folk music you like or dislike

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 12:51 PM

Ah, Ok. Thanks for the clarification Crumbly.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 12:36 PM

NO i wasn't referring to your post, dave...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 11:16 AM

One important musician I forgot to mention in my 'likes' is the late Martyn Bennett - just been reminded by a track of his being played on the BBC Folk Programme which I'm catching up with. He created some of the most interesting, exciting and innovative interpretations of folk song I've ever heard - his album Grit is astonishing!

Certainly not one for the folk purists but highly recommnded for open minded folkies who have not heard his work yet

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 09:15 AM

I certainly wasn't alluding to you, Crumbly. I don't even know who you are! There are some who enjoy the 100mph sessions but I personally don't. I agree with you about the rhythm mainly but there are certain tunes and songs which do change rhythm - Princess Royal for instance - where it does work.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 05:17 AM

This is about the music we like & dislike- if it is me who is being accused of 'showing off', you need to be more specific.
I thought I was fairly clear that I have a dislike of arhythmic Irish music as that was the subject of discussion- this is normally fast music and Irish music seems to be especially afflicted- maybe Scottish too, says Kenny, but I wouldn't know?

However, slow airs can be similarly mangled by a lack of understanding of the music & I gave examples of mature musicians to listen to- there are plenty more....

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 16 Jan 20 - 04:54 AM

A world famous jazz musician once despaired of some of the younger generation of players as playing "fast nothing". I hear far too much of that in Scotland these days. I don't condemn it. I just ignore it.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 06:58 PM

By the way, Steve, grrr. "Stevie G" is it now. Well you know that there is only one Stevie G, he dressed in red and his surname is Gerrard... I'm thinking you did that on purpose...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:52 PM

>>>>>>I get a bit marked when I hear a session get hijacked by someone who just wants to show off.<<<<<<<

Spot on, Dave, but it doesn't just happen in Irish sessions. I have been known to speak up on odd occasions as you can imagine. Even worse when it's a mixed session and there are relative beginners trying to get to grips. To compound things this one I'm thinking of used to arrive late at session and then play all the tunes that had already been played at normal speed, at twice the speed.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:47 PM

Yeah they were amazing!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:44 PM

Chops is one thing. Getting under the skin of the music is entirely another. I don't condemn all fast playing and I'd never insist that everything on a CD should be played at dance speed. A great example of a CD with a lot of fast playing that still sounds great (at least to my ear) is Barking Mad by Four Men and a Dog.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 01:57 PM

Love fast music as long as it still has feeling (which is hard to define you just know it when you hear it!)

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Booden Gad
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 01:49 PM

I'm not too bothered by the speed as long as there is still clarity and rhythm. Can be fast,slow leisurely,or whatever as long as it sits right still, if you know what i mean. As i said we are lucky as plenty of fine players around.
    Telling the young fit and able not to play too fast is pointless when they have the chops, imo. Most mellow a bit as they age I'd imagine. Hurts my wrists and fingers watching some of them.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 01:13 PM

Some truth in this, illustrated by the strange keys which were sometimes the result of '78' technicians speeding things up to fit the disc- four minutes was the exception rather than the rule- 3 minutes was and still is the length of a standard track/tune/disc

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM

Steve - a friend of mine coined the term (well I think he did!) 'Mindless virtuosity' when we were watching a once famous (in folk circles!) trio many years ago!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 11:42 AM

I think the Morrisons and Colemans quite often went hell for leather because they were trying to fit their sets on to four-minute sides of 78s.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 09:20 AM

Inordinate speed seems to be a serious affliction of younger Irish players, or should I clarify- players of Irish music.

Younger players become older players, and arhythmic speed playing is becoming the norm. Many young players have never played for dancing, even 'Shoe the Donkey' or the 'Stack of Barley'and HERE LIES RHYTHM!!

However, it is true that some of the classic Irish players like Coleman, Morrison etc didn't hang about either, although their rhythm was always there.

I think there is a demand for fast, exciting music in many musical contexts, and maybe some of the 'tutors' and alleged experts (often with short apprenticeships in the music) are influenced by a parallel interest & taste for current genres of madcap pop music- hardly surprising?
Such tutors have a responsibility to emphasise the VARIETY of rhythms which make up Irish music, and make a point of listening to some more classic sources - e.g. Martin Byrnes, Bobby Gardiner, Leo Rowsome rather than globe-trotting 'Celtic' folk/rock bands who can remain nameless- no intention of starting a furore!   all IMHO of course

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Booden Gad
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 06:49 AM

Irish tune players with no awareness of the lack of rhythm and interest in their phrasing, is a slight bleh of mine, I'd never comment just agree that they're great. No problem if they understand they have an issue though.
    The Like question is harder as there's so much past and present it would take some lengthy listing. Cormac Begley (concertina) is one of the current younger players who imo is showing the way. Lots to like as lots of great tune players around both young and old, happy days for us enthusiasts.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 06:23 AM

I do know what you mean. I get a bit marked when I hear a session get hijacked by someone who just wants to show off.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 05:45 AM

Not really a "type" of music, but an aspect of "our genre" that I dislike, is what I could misguidedly call unwarranted virtuosity. That's not the same thing as easy felicity, emanating from skill, a deep understanding of the music and the mastery of the instrument which makes the music sound amazing (and the lack of it :-( wot makes me sound positively clunky at times...) I can't listen to stuff that is making the instrument the point of the thing, rather than the music. I find that a lot of the young bucks especially are so anxious to show us how good they are on their fiddles/flutes/whistles, etc., that they can't resist playing flashily and/or with excessive speed. If you're playing a piece of Paganini, well you're supposed to be showing your virtuosity. But when it's applied to some jigs or reels I'm not happy. Know what I mean?

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:41 AM

Thanks Steve and...

100!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 04:38 AM

Sure, Dave. Though I thought that what I posted gave a good flavour of my musical predilections, which is what the thread is about. Just in case anyone thought I was nowt but a political nutter! Point taken, howsumever...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 03:56 AM

Can we keep this thread on track please Steve and Steve?

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 20 - 03:47 AM

You have all the credentials, Steve, but why the antagonism and aggression?

Stevie G

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Karen Impola
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:45 PM

Getting back to the questions at the top of the thread (hi, I'm new, by the way - been reading here for ages, maybe posted once or twice as a guest)

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

Yes, but I think it's an acquired taste. I was initially drawn in by the more polished revival singers. I find that once I fall in love with a song or a tune or a style of music, I want to trace it back as far into the past as the history of recording technology permits.

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

Like I said, they are the gateway drug. I probably spend more time listening to them than to source singers, but that's mainly because there are more of them around.

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

Yes.

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Both, although I prefer songwriters who are rooted in traditional styles to ones who aren't.

What about electric folk?

Of course! I imprinted on Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span at a young age. How could I not like it?

Dance music, social or ritual?

I like dance tunes a lot, even when I'm not dancing to them.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:03 PM

By the way, if Joe Offer happens to be reading this, the same Joe Offer who accused me of having nothing to say about music (he closed the thread before I could reply), I've posted 120 times above the line in the last calendar month. I don't know an awful lot about folk song, though I have many CDs of that genre, as my main interest is in the harmonica and in traditional Irish instrumental music, somewhat tangential issues on Mudcat. But I've played in pub sessions for over twenty years, just about once a week minimum, and strutted my Irish stuff at gigs for many a wedding and St Pat's nights and on many other occasions. I've made a CD and have penned over forty articles for Harmonica World, the mag of the National Harmonica League. I'm on YouTube and have submitted many a tune to the NHL, both scores and performances. My credentials are up there with anybody else's here. Just thought I'd mention it. You're welcome to check me out, Joe...

I love Nic Jones too.... :-)

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 09:20 PM

Is Christy folk? Well that's a tough one (so tough that I tend to care not a jot...). He's one of those who you could, if you really wanted to, regard as an offshoot from the offshoot that was Planxty....

I've seen Christy live four times, usually travelling hundreds of miles to see him. Christy live, uniquely among all other performers, is a totally different animal to the bloke you hear on most of his CDs ( a lot of which, to me, simply don't capture the man at all...). Go and see him live if you can. He sings Woody songs, Shane songs, Jimmy McCarthy songs, his own songs and lots of other songs. A man who sings Pair of Brown Eyes, Fairytale, Missing you, Bright Blue Rose, Ride On.... That'll do me!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:49 AM

Bobby Sands died on the day my youngest son was born BTW. We kept a copy of the Daily Mirror from that date for years. No idea what became of it.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 10:20 AM

Yebbut is it folk? :-0

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 06:42 AM

Bobby Sands also wrote McIlhatton, another great song adopted by Christy.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 06:18 AM

Bright Blue Rose was written by Jimmy McCarthy. There's a treasurable version of the song sung by Christy Moore and Jimmy on Youtube. I always have trouble finding it. Jimmy also wrote Ride On, Mystic Lipstick, Missing you and No Frontiers, among others. He has a way with words that I really like. I hope Jack isn't reading this. ;-).

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 04:34 AM

Glad you enjoyed them

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 04:07 AM

Just found it. The Bright Blue Rose. Performed by many but the Mary Black version is very good indeed.

And, yes, the tune for Sands' Derry song was based on Lightfoot's.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 20 - 03:32 AM

They were very good. Primarily Irish stuff. Both traditional and contemporary. Not all to my taste but all performed skilfully and with obvious enjoyment. I need to look up one particular song, the blue rose, as it stood out for me. I also need to check if Bobby Sands "Back home in Derry" is the same tune as Gordon Lightfoot's "The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald".

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 02:04 PM

Have a good night. I don't know them either. Looking forward to the report back

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM

Thanks Joe. I think we have very similar tastes!

I'm always up for something new though and off to see a trio I know nothing about tonight - Setanta. If Brendan will let me out of the front door!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 01:26 PM

Finally got some time at the PC to respond to this!

Do you like and listen to recordings of the source singers?

No - have heard the Coppers & Joseph Taylor singing Brigg Fair and that's about it - though I do recognise their importance and understand why others find them of interest or even enjoy them

Do you prefer revival and present day singers?

Yes - my way into folk music was largely due to people like Johnny Handle, Jez Lowe & Ged Foley, the singers at the Nursery Folk club then folk rock - Steeleye and Five Hand Reel were the earliest - I didn't really get to know Fairport until much later

Do you like songs accompanied or unaccompanied?

Generally accompanied but very good unaccompanied singing can be a joy. I'm thinking particularly about Coope, Boyes and Simpson (together and individually) and a Yorkshire based, mostly unaccompanied female trio Yan Tan Tether who perform an interesting arrange of material including Bulgarian songs which I love

Do you like traditional, contemporary or both?

Both but with far more emphasis on contemporary. When I listen to traditional I prefer the arrangements to be interesting - eg Jim Moray, Jon Boden & Remnant Kings, Bellowhead. I prefer songs that have a direct relevance to the current day or recent past - though I love mining songs, many sailing songs and other industrial songs. I am not so keen on rural folk songs. Favourite contemporary songwriters not already mentioned here include John Tams (a folk God in my eyes!), Robb Johnson, Reg Meuross, Joe Solo, Grace Petrie, Nick Hall & Michelle Plum, Joseph Porter of Blyth Power (a genius with lyrics!) - there are so many more!

What about electric folk?

Oh yes in all its forms from crusty folk rock to modern electronica - eg Broadcaster, Jim Moray again, Runrig (once my favourite bands and still up there - got their final concert DVD for Christmas, Skippinish - again so many more!

Dance music, social or ritual?

Used to adore ceilidhs but my other half isn't up to them now and I'm getting that way. Blowzabella are a candidate for my all time favourite band along with Tickled Pink. Still love the music. Used to be in a morris team in my late teens but I was always going up when everyone else was going down so I didn't follow it through to adulthood once I moved away from home. Still enjoy the music though

As well as British and Irish folk I particularly enjoy music from around the world with the exception of the Far East (for the want of a better term). Not overly keen on South Asian music either but there are of course exceptions - Ragu Dixit is tremendous!

Enough for now - I've missed lots of people I love but gives you an idea. No suprises in there I suspect! :-)

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 08:57 PM

The deletion neurotic seems to have struck...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 08:14 PM

Naughty!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 07:04 PM

The proper Mudcat answer is "all types" because any that I don't like don't qualify as folk music. Or did I entirely misunderstand the arguements in the "state of folk music" thread?

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: RTim
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 06:48 PM

I also dislike Parodies...and Rounds...

But love many types of Folk Music incl. European....

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 05:06 PM

At the risk of offending the Interplanetary Folksong Society I hate Martian folk music.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Nick
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 03:37 PM

Walter Panda. I’m a big fan meself.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM

I'm a big fan of W*lt*r Pa*d*n meself...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 01:07 PM

oooh.. at least this thread aint closed yet, while I'm still thinking about it's title question...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 11:06 AM

Two types of folk music I dislike:

parodies - often mean-spirited and dirty-minded. I have stopped looking at parody threads

supposed lyrics to dance tunes which were merely quick and dirty mnenomics to help fiddlers recall the tune

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 07:00 PM

Paintbrush me red

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:28 PM

Stop beating about the bush, gilly...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:21 PM

whoops, wrong thread.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 06:20 PM

Michael Hedges, of course.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 05:56 PM

There I was trying to go incognito and Nick blew my cover ;-) My thoughts will be with you when I am back at the PC. Genuinely touched that you are interested in my enthusiasms Dave :-)