BS: UK politics

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:42 AM

I noticed Enoch enjoyed VISITING India and think he was an anti-immigrationist not a racist.

I don't like Germans pricing young Spanish couples out of the property market any more than moneyed English - I want English and Germans to VISIT Spain and the EU to dissolve.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:35 AM

What we voted for:

“Independence, the freedom of a self-governing nation, is in my
estimation the highest political good, for which any disadvantage, if
need be, and any sacrifice are a cheap price." Enoch Powell

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:28 AM

More ridiciulous mathermagic with numbers! All pointless of course.
Those with a vote voted for brexit. We won. You lost. Get over it.
It ain't gonna change.
Off we go to the sunny uplands! I suggest you hitch a ride on the Hogwart's express.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:26 AM

We can argue until we’re blue in the face, but the simple unadorned fact is that the Brexit-Brigade got it their way and we’re out.

But this isn’t the end, it’s the beginning of Brexit, and the people who pushed us over the cliff have now got to start living up to their promises. If they thought it was tough getting to this point, they ain’t seen nothing yet.

And it’s not Remainers who need to hold the Tories’ feet to the fire, it’s those who supported and voted for Leave. If, as the majority of Remainers believe, the Leavers were persuaded by dis-information, mis-information, and barefaced lies, the Leavers are the ones with the responsibility of ensuring that the promises of ‘sunlit uplands’ and ‘easiest deal ever’ etc. are lived up to. They voted for it - time to take responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:18 AM

17 million wanted to leave and wanted a referendum

16 million wanted to remain and did not want a referendum

13 million did not vote and did not care for the referemdum

An overwhelming majority (63%) had no appetite for a referendum.

Would anyone care to give a logical counter argument rather than engage in personal abuse and try to get the thread closed?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 03:13 AM

someone's woke up on the far right side of the bed this morning...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 01:58 AM

If there were no call for a vote on our being part of the EU, when offered a vote we would not have voted to leave.

Nigel. Once again I must point out that 17 million voted to leave, 16 million voted to remain and 13 million did not vote. Just think about that. 16 million wanted to remain and did not want the referendum. 13 million did not vote and did not care about the referendum. That is a massive 29 million who had no appetite for it as opposed to 17 million who did. Now come back and show us how Steve's analysis was incorrect.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 01:09 AM

Hectoring folks that something is wrong, it's the fault of foreigners,
so we should all turn our backs and walk away from it..
is a damn sight easier than persuading enough of them to stay to try to fix it...

..anyway, life after a decade of tory austerity goes on regardless...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 11:30 PM

My thoughts..

Leave obsessives were long in advance better organized and mobilised to vote,
hence the very slender majority referendum win...

Remainers were not as well organised to defend an obviously flawed status quo.

The rest of the population were not well prepared, particularly interested, or sufficiently enthusiastic,
to vote at all
on such a complex and arcane topic...

Whatever, better hope brexit works out for the benefit of us all,
and not just the profiteering wealthy elite...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 09:54 PM

At least a lot of brexit obsessives are going to wake up this morning/afternoon
with chronic hangovers and sickness...

The bastard in me hopes their next door neighbours start up early dawn
non stop
DIY hammering and drilling...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 09:33 PM

And your understanding of politics is so facile that you make me feel like I'm losing faith in people like you having the vote. Go to bed for chrissake. Anyway, I thought I'd celebrate this inauspicious occasion, though it's long past me bloody bedtime, by listening to Lennie Bernstein, one of my great US heroes (Gershwin being the other, along with Woody), conducting the "freiheit" version of the finale of Beethoven 9. Very poignant, as the ode to joy has been sort of adopted by the EU, and that Beethoven, though a man of his times, was ultimately a great internationalist and a believer in the good of mankind. Unlike these bloody vicious, idiotic, xenophobic brexiteers who want to pitch "England" back into those illusory glory days of yore wot never happened...sick man of Europe, etc... Even more poignant in that Lennie died less than a year after that great occasion. Bedtime, Stevie boy!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 08:41 PM

Spot on Nigel. I'd known for decades that I had not had a chance to vote for the UK becoming subject to EU law. The 70s vote was to remain in an economic union. I had voted for that and when the EU was formed I felt cheated. I have no doubt that most people who were paying attention felt the same. As for sides, Margret Thatcher was ousted from power because she was becoming more and more anti EU. Remember "No no no"? The sides go back to then, if not earlier.

Steve Shaw lives in a land of make believe and wishful thinking. His sarcasm is kind of comic.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 08:36 PM

Having read through this entire thread in one go - as an American author advised we should do, and he noted for his horrific imaginings - I found many facts and opinions of interest, two of which I think might bear a little more "input".

First, punkfolkrocker posted "France's Brexit song", in which, as Hugh MacDiarmid observed nearly a century ago, the singers "use 'England' when the UK's meant". Lord Goold, once a high-ranking Conservative Minister, once said that the Tories wouldn't bother about demands for Independence in Scotland until people were smashing windows in Sauchiehall Street (and anyone adding, "you mean every Saturday night?" runs the risk of being "called out" for stereotyping...).

Secondly, re. "electability" (Labour Party & its leader), bearing in mind the power of the Press &c., as instanced several times above. What does this actually mean? A leader and a party deemed acceptable by whom? Just setting a perr o' mappys jinkan.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 08:27 PM

"Typical Steve Shaw bollocks. He claims there was no appetite in this country for a referendum."

That's very gratuitously rude. In fact, REAL fact, there was no passion abroad in this country for a referendum. None at all. You lost the elections in 1997 and 2001, and arguably in 2005, despite earnest campaigns by deluded Tory leaders to use Europe as your trump card ("24 hours to save the pound" etc). Cameron, the biggest bloody idiot in our politics for a century, called that referendum to try to sideline his own right-wingers and to marginalise Farage. Nothing to do with the interests of the country. He was, in his hubris, convinced he'd win. He was lamentably wrong, in the same way that privileged and entitled ex-Etonians are always wrong. So here we are, a country terribly divided. You think that will heal quickly? Well, your ex-Etonian tousle-haired hero thinks it will but it absolutely won't. Get real, Nige. This is just the beginning.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:35 PM

From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:44 PM
Your "side," which you gleefully espouse, is what has split this country down the middle. Your man in 2016 called a referendum that there was no real appetite for in the country in order, he thought, to see off the people like you on the far right of his party and to sideline Farage. Your man failed miserably and created the sides that you are now pretending that you disapprove of. Let's hope that the split doesn't define this country for years to come, but, if it does, be assured that your lot created the "sides" that simply didn't exist before 2016. Therefore, get real just for once.

Typical Steve Shaw bollocks. He claims there was no appetite in this country for a referendum. If so, why did the leave voters win that referendum.
The 'sides' he mentioned (those for leaving the EU, or remaining in the EU) certainly existed before that time. It was just that the leavers had no major political party which espoused their viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:27 PM

I'm trying not to snack after midnight. I've just eaten half a pound of Spanish cherry tomatoes (no calories...) and am still quaffing the dregs of that bottle of Sicilian red. I'm not quite pissed enough yet on this sad and momentous night, so I might just see if I can find a drop of Scottish single malt. Three countries mentioned there, two still solid EU members and one which may well be again soon...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:23 PM

It's a rare mistake if I attack individuals here (click on my name, if you wish) but, at the same time, receiving personal attacks won't stop me criticising the status quo and offering solutions - I just copy/pasted similar to the above on the Facebook pages of CNN, Fox, ITV, Channel 4 and 5 news, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:08 PM

Even though it's gone midnight, I am tempted to brew another mug of tea..
and have a mini Crunchie bar..
I am British after all...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:05 PM

Anyway, I've ended this week, and month, happily playing with my new fuzz box..
Got it half price brand new..
It does a full range of vintage 1960s and 70s tones..

These are the good positive small things in our insignificant lives..

I usually don't care what someone else's politics are when we are getting along talking about guitar gear..
Unfortunately international online guitar forums have become soap boxes
for loud mouthed extremist far right xenophobic bigots,
mostly American and East Europeans.
Though all parts of the world are over-represented by converts to neo fascist populism....

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:02 PM

And that isn't a reply. It's just a yah boo sucks post of no actual substance. Finish your EU prosecco and go to bed, old man. You'll wake up a free man tomorrow, somewhere in mid-Atlantic, with no no friends....

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:58 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: Your "side," which you gleefully espouse, is what has split this country down the middle. Your man in 2016 called a referendum that there was no real appetite for in the country in order, he thought, to see off the people like you on the far right of his party and to sideline Farage. Your man failed miserably and created the sides that you are now pretending that you disapprove of. Let's hope that the split doesn't define this country for years to come, but, if it does, be assured that your lot created the "sides" that simply didn't exist before 2016. Therefore, get real just for once.

Just about everything in this post is wrong, from 'no real appetite' to '"sides" that simply didn't exist before 2016'. You express an ignorance of what was actually going on that is no real surprise to me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:57 PM

Prosecco is a thoroughly EU drink. I'm drinking a glass of Sicilian appassimento Nero d'Avola on purpose. I've even been to Avola. Little Englanders don't think this way...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:50 PM

Stan - I've never been one for actively taking sides,
it's an unwelcome concept imposed by circumstance and other folk's bad habits;
which I just fall into and go along with as I have to...


It's usually other folks who decide I'm the enemy on their opposing side..

They set themselves apart, and put me in a spot from where I need to resist...

I don't hate other folks, but I do despir of most of 'em...

I don't do tribalism..

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:47 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: He's way too bitter to listen, pfr.

No bitter tonight but I cracked a half bottle of fizzy Prosecco at 11:00 pm. In pubs bitter was my drink. My favourite was Hydes Anvil at the Jolly Angler behind Piccadilly station but it's years since I was there. The pension is adequate but wont stretch to Pubs and taxis.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:44 PM

Your "side," which you gleefully espouse, is what has split this country down the middle. Your man in 2016 called a referendum that there was no real appetite for in the country in order, he thought, to see off the people like you on the far right of his party and to sideline Farage. Your man failed miserably and created the sides that you are now pretending that you disapprove of. Let's hope that the split doesn't define this country for years to come, but, if it does, be assured that your lot created the "sides" that simply didn't exist before 2016. Therefore, get real just for once.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:38 PM

He's way too bitter to listen, pfr.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:37 PM

Could it be that part of the problem is the concept of 'sides'?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:19 PM

Stan - when we can honestly recognise the dickheads on our own sides,
and stop defending them;
then we all might stand a better chance of getting along more amicably
with the good folks on the opposing side...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:13 PM

Don't be so blind, Stanron. Just look at his recent postings here, and look at the related bits of cod-poetry and "blogging" on his website. You don't have to look very hard. People like you and him have got the vote. You should thank the Lord for that flaw in democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:09 PM

We've taken back control! We have Trump and Pence leaning on us over 5G and we're bending! We take chlorine chicken and GM beef or we're stuffed! We kowtow to the EU over trade - or else!

The only thing I feel I have control over is my bladder. And at my age even that might not last long....

We've regained sovereignty! Well, except that the US will be telling us what we have to do far more than the EU ever did...

But we've got democracy back!

Ditto that last point...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Stanron
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:06 PM

I'm glad we've left the EU (check the time) but I don't want to see it destroyed. I think it may well destroy itself in the next decade. If it does there will be a chance to create what it should have been.

Don't worry about accusations of misogyny and xenophobia. It's standard UK lefty technique when someone has the temerity to say stuff they don't want to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:03 PM

...and no UK.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:03 PM

"all peoples united", Dave, under the United Nations - no EU, no Commonwealth, no G7/8 or G20, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 05:50 PM

If you imaginary friend did exist I think he would rather see all peoples united rather than shunning their neighbours.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 05:36 PM

Don't include me either. You have a record of xenophobia (or worse) and misogyny here, as I've pointed out before.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 05:19 PM

Those are not "xenophobic" words, Dave, and neither are these - God's speed to all Scottish (and English and Welsh) Nationalists.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:59 PM

We don't just want to brexit the EU but help get rid of it

Who is this we?

Don't include me in your sweeping xenophobic statements.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:05 PM

We don't just want to brexit the EU but help get rid of it; apart from some local government, all any citizen of our world needs is their own nation & the UNITED NATIONS; my poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "Nationalism without Conquest"

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 03:51 PM

Brexit is today, right? Bon courage!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 01:11 PM

200

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 12:51 PM

THE FRENCH BREXIT SONG

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 12:01 PM

"Isn't it great to be British and a brexiteer?"

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 11:55 AM

It's funny how some people keep reliving past events. It's almost as if they want to derail any discussion on the failings of the present administration.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 11:46 AM

That took you over an hour to assemble
from your go-to kit of prefab right wing rhetoric phrases and sound bites..

At least it keeps you occupied and give you some purpose in life...

I'll do what I can to help sad folks, I'm nice like that...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 11:26 AM

Unless they intend using their newly grasped power in attempt to dismantle democracy,
What utter nonsense!
Find yourself a proper opposition party if you do not like what is on offer. Giving support to a party hellbent on suicide, and then talking about the party in power dismantling democracy by grasping power shows a woeful lack of grip on reality.
How can a party be accused of grasping power when they won a majority in a lawful election?
The only people that could legitimately be accused of dismantling democracy are remainiacs and labour. Their antics, aided and abetted by the treacherous speaker are a matter of public record. Theyt frustrated breixit from June 2016 until December 2019, when the electirate had their say.
and we all know how that turned out, don't we?

Democracy restored on the 12Dec.
followed by
Sovereignty restored 31st January

Isn't it great to be british and a brexiteer?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 10:16 AM

Antisocial buffoons can gloat as much as they like about winning an election.
It's keeping the electorate on side
and winning the next one that really matters..

Unless they intend using their newly grasped power in attempt to dismantle democracy,
and install themselves as leaders of a permanent one party state...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Iains
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 10:02 AM

I see the remainiacs are still trying to spin the idea that a minority voted for brexit.
Funny that Brexit was won then, is it not?

The luddite labourites and adherants to cult corbyn insist they won the argument. What a quaint idea!
However we won the election and that is the only thing that counts.
Prior to the election Chris Curtis, the political research director at YouGov, the UK's biggest pollster, summed it up:

    "The chances of the Labour Party getting a majority are about as close to zero as it's possible to get."
Ipsos Mori found only 16 per cent of voters were satisfied with Mr Corbyn's performance, compared with 76 per cent who were dissatisfied.

That made him the most unpopular opposition leader since Ipsos Mori began polling 45 years ago.

Former Labour leader Michael Foot had an approval score of -56 in 1982 — a year before he lost in a landslide to Margaret Thatcher.

and now the wallys are about to elect a corbyn clone as leader.
Talk about turkeys voting for christmas! 'Tis a joy to watch.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 08:37 AM

Ann Widdecombe has just said this is one of the best days of her life..

Well.. she's never had a wedding day, or given birth, and is possibly still a virgin;
and she adheres to strict religious views on life and pleasure..

So she's not exactly a 'normal' women who's judgement of what constitutes a "best day"
has much in common with most other folks...

Still, who's to deny her what little she does find to celebrate in her quirky restricted life...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:24 AM

Lots of truth here in the New Statesman.

I sincerely hope I live long enough to tell the brainwashed, malleable minority of the U.K. population who were persuaded by a tiny number of immensely-wealthy, immensely-powerful people to vote for this tragedy that “I told you so”.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 07:08 AM

Remainiacs and exiteers could not have seen a global pandemic coming but the fictional suspense novel 'Beach of Immunity' brings to life the story of the Immune Island of Britain as the last harbinger of life for humans. .. until Volume 2 https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Breach-Immunity-Hite-Molly-Saint-Martins/3051087042/bd
:^)