The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs

Subject: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: GUEST,SB
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 06:14 PM

The entertainment put on by Farson [the American owner in the early 1960s] Waterman’s Arm [pub.] consisted of both local amateur and professional acts, old-time music hall stars, as well as those that you would not expect to see in a Victorian pub on the Isle of Dogs such as Shirley Bassey.

The audience at the Waterman’s Arms attracted not just the locals, but also those from the West End, and a global set of celebrities from the early 1960s. Names such as Lord Delfont, George Melly, Groucho Marx, Lionel Bart, Trevor Howard, Tony Bennett, Mary Quant, Norman Hartnell, Judy Garland and Clint Eastwood (who wrote the word ‘rowdy’ in the guest book).

Daniel Farson also discovered local talent who went on the perform at the Waterman’s Arms. One of these was Kim Cordell who Farson saw performing at the Rising Sun in Mile End Road and who was described in The Stage as: “In the booming world of pub entertainment, one personality is causing more and more comment. This is Kim Cordell, first seen in Dan Farson’s TV pub show Time, Gentlemen Please! and now the compere/singer of his pub on the Isle of Dogs, the Waterman’s Arms. Kim herself says: ‘Without a doubt, this has been the best year of my life. I seem to have found a real incentive for the first time’. Apart from her success at The Waterman’s, the year has included appearances on TV; two films, one called ‘Songs of London’ for the British Tourist and Travel Association, the other ‘London After Dark’, not yet released; and the lion’s share in a forthcoming L.P. ‘A Night At The Waterman’s'”.

https://alondoninheritance.com/londonpubs/watermans-arms-isle-dogs/

Who remembers the pub. and the t.v programme(s)?

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: GUEST,SB
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 06:36 PM

Are these on the web anywhere?

"Time, Gentlemen Please!"
"Songs of London"
"London After Dark"
"A Night At The Waterman’s”

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 07:48 PM

Well bugger me sideways with a bent banana! This is the first mention of this pub I've heard in 43 years. On 18 December 1976 Mrs Steve and I got married (by Fr Burke at St Mary and Joseph in Poplar) and had our wedding evening do at the Watermans. I know nowt about music at the pub as I was thoroughly soused due to champagne all that day (though it could be that, in my lusty youth, in spite of that I did manage that evening to...well you know what...) the weather that day was so terrible that the wedding photographer had to use flash f or the outdoor shots, even though we'd insisted on black and white... Also, I had the mother and father of a cold, and the next day, on our flight to Tenerife for our honeymoon (first time I'd ever been on a plane), I had to be cuddled and comforted by a beautiful air hostess due to stress caused by my inability to equalise the pressure in my congested head. It didn't exactly put me off flying...

By the way, at the time I lived in Robin Hood Gardens in Poplar, one of the most celebrated examples of brutalist architecture. I was actually very happy there. I believe that a section of that famed block of flats has been carefully reconstructed in the V&A. Good times! I worked at my school with nuns who were very reminiscent of the ones in Call The Midwife, and the series relates to that area. If the series goes on for long enough they'll catch up with the time I started teaching in Poplar, in 1973...

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 08:13 PM

But thanks for providing the history of the pub. Mrs Steve is in bed right now but I'll get her to read your link in the morning. We lived and both taught in that area from 1973 to 1980. Our main watering hole, though, was not on the Isle of Dogs ("the Island"...) but the Exmouth Arms down Commercial Road (in Exmouth Street), a pub we always called the Hollands. It's been closed now for way over 20 years. The greatest pub of my whole life, and I've known hundreds!


...But it was always wise to not mention the Krays... :-)

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Brian Peters
Date: 22 Jan 20 - 08:40 PM

I remember going in the Watermans, though it was on the other side of the Island from where we lived, on the edge of the Millwall Dock. Our locals were the Blacksmith's (a classic East End community pub), the North Star and The Londoner (my Man United scarf didn't go down well there, though).

There was a pub in Limehouse called Charlie Brown's, in which my wife once witnessed a brawl that included a bystander picking up empty glasses from surrounding tables and hurling them at random into the melee. They don't make boozers like that any more!

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 03:20 AM

I lived close to the Waterman's Arms in the 70's. There was still music there but I think Daniel Farson had moved on. One band I remember was the Levity Lancers. A few years later I found out that a friend of mine had been a member for a while. Later the Lancers had a regular gig at a pub near to where I live now. This would have been the late 80's, early 90's and we seemed to spend every Sunday lunch listening to them while playing mah-jong.

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 03:23 AM

I believe Charlie Brown's was the Blue Posts which has now gone. Charlie moved out to South Woodford and had another pub named after him which is still remembered in the name of the roundabout below the A406.

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 08:59 AM

I'm sure Mrs Steve will enjoy reading your link to the Waterman's. We didn't "do" traditional music in those days, so we missed out there. The area where my school used to be has changed a lot (it was called St Philip Howard when I was there, latterly changing its name to Blessed Robert Johnson and then the buildings disappearing altogether. Its address was Upper North Street, Poplar). There was a pub just outside the school's back gates where we quaffed many a pint, especially on the last day of term, but I can't remember it's name or find it on Google Earth. We spent many a Thursday evening in the Bishop Bonner in Bethnal Green for Chas and Dave before they got famous. What a crush those evenings were. If you could actually get to the bar at all you bought double the drinks! Another pub that closed down... :-(

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 09:00 AM

I do know where apostrophe's do and dont belong...

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Brian Peters
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 11:11 AM

I remember 'Charlie Brown's' being the actual pub name, and that it was a different pub from the Blue Posts. However, a bit of research shows that Manitas is right too: there were two individuals called Charlie Brown - father and son - and each kept a pub named after himself on either side of the road. It was Charlie Jr who left the Blue Posts and set up in Woodford.

There's some interesting information about Charlie
here

Correction: the pub in which I had an encounter with unsympathetic West Ham fans was actually the City Arms on the Island. The Londoner was the pub in Limehouse, at the junction of Commercial and West India Dock Rd. It had a sign up in the bar banning drug dealers, prostitutes, drunkards, etc, but it always looked as though all of the regulars fell into at least one of these categories. I remember going into a Chinese restaurant to get a takeaway when I first moved to the Island in 1976 - the place doubled as a laundry and was like a movie caricature of Chinatown in the 1940s. Nice food, though.

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 12:15 PM

I didn't realize that there were a few fellow east enders here on mudcat. When I belonged the SPY (South Poplar Youth Club) in Poplar High Street we used to drink across the road in The Resolute where one of the priests from All Saints Father Apps always in his cassock used to come in and play piano. I remember one of the local housewives lustily singing "Arseholes are Cheap Today" to the tune of "Ta Ra Ra Boom De Ay".
I just took a quick look through my copy of Dan's book "Limehouse Days"
One of the people that he features who might be of some interest to one or two Mudcat contributors is Joan Littlewood.

Guest SB. Re "The Risng Sun" in Mile End Road, are you confusing this with The Rising Sun on the corner or Globe Road and Roman Road? Globe road runs from Mile End to Bethnal Green and there were regular weekly TV shows from there with similar acts to those you mention. Peters and Lee a popular duo started there

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 12:27 PM

I left Poplar as a resident in 1978 but carried on teaching there for another couple of years. I must have supped in dozens of East End pubs and I'm very annoyed with myself for not remembering the names of most of them. There was a pub about half way up Burdett Road (on the left-hand side going towards Mile End) in which Blair Peach and I quaffed many a pint after a frustrating union meeting. There was one just behind Mile End station that was definitely in the category of "dodgy but handy", the Wentworth Arms I think. It's still there, very likely much more respectable these days than it was when it was a Krays watering hole...

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 02:44 PM

Steve,

It was just behind Mile End Station in Eric Street that the Krays had a snooker hall but I think that was gone by the seventies. They did have their own pub later close to St Matthew's Church in Bethnal Green. The Carpnter's Arms.
I can't say if the Wentworth Arms is still there. Good pubs in the East End like many other places are few and far between currently.

And try and find one with live music.

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 03:59 PM

I think it was because the snooker hall was so near the pub that they used it. As far as I can make out, the Wentworth is still there. I've lived in Cornwall for over thirty years now and I rarely get back to the East End. The last time was for a sentimental visit in 2004. Though, oddly, I'll be back there for a funeral the week after next - a teacher who was at Mrs Steve's school (Ben Jonson Primary in Stepney) in the '70s. We used to give her a lift to school in the ould Morris Minor. Mrs Steve lived in Bethnal Green before we got married, in a Council flat (Merceron House) in Globe Road. The 106 bus was our lifeline!

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 23 Jan 20 - 04:32 PM

Bethnal Green is well known to me, family origins. I also worked there for a number of years and have never lived more than six miles away.
My school was in Tredegar Square. My bus was the number 8.

Small world I guess

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 03:26 AM

Tredegar Square? Would that have been Coopers Coburn school?

Thank you for the information on the two Charlie Browns, Brian.

I think the pub in Burdett Road that Steve mentioned was the Railway or perhaps the Engineer.

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:23 AM

I've had a delve but I can't track down the name of that one. In my googling though I have found the name of the one just behind my school: it was the Chimes, sadly yet another pub that is no more... That was our default pub for our end-of-term pissups. I could tell you some stories...

Subject: RE: The Waterman's Arms - Isle of Dogs
From: GUEST,Hootennanny
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:50 AM

Yes Manitas,

Cooper's Company's School now Bow Foundation School for Girls,

Cooper'a boys and Coborn Girls were associated when I was there.