BS: New rules for the coming pandemic

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:38 PM

I give up. Off-topic off-color squabbling posts have to be removed one at a time and it's a waste of my time - there's no resurrecting this hot mess. You all need to go outside to play for a while. Or pick up a musical instrument and create some music. This thread has run it's course (unlike the COVID19 virus).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:47 PM

Steve - count back to who inconsiderately spunked it away...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:40 PM

Flippin' 'eck. It suddenly jumped from 999 to 2003. Twats...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:38 PM

Bollerks, pfr. It's mine...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:36 PM

Sorry mates - you can't claim "1000" right now..

But wait for a few deletions.. then the race is on...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:30 PM

Donny - If you must, have the last word.. [you obviously will..]

But before you do.
Why are you being more of a supercilious wanker than usual right now...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:26 PM

Opps its late here too edit NIAID not non inflamatories :^/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:21 PM

Its past their isolated bedtime in the UK. Frustrations will only grow in the Idiocracies of the world. If I had as big an ego as they think, I might care.

The 'Plot against America' looks promising.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:19 PM

And no conspiracy here. As you can see, I cross-posted with pfr...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:17 PM

Trouble is, Jeri, you're so obsessed with thinking that you're surrounded with pains in the arse (esp. a la Brit...) that you don't recognise a real pain in the arse when you see one. And there's no bloody need to effin' swear...You're a mod, right? What would you think of a footie referee who charged around the pitch effin' and jeffin' at all the players...? You're supposed to be that ref, Jeri...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:16 PM

Ohio is cancelling "nonessential" abortions. Funny, I never heard of cosmetic abortions...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:16 PM

Donny - I will stop being polite or tolerant..

I am not in the mood for this unnecessary pointless antagonism from a smug conceited pretentious arsehole..

You started this stupidity for absolutely no sensible relevant reason...!!!

"From: Donuel - PM
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:06 PM

In the absence of Mad Magazine I'm glad pfr is here.

but his politics are horribly blind."...????????????????????????????????

I'm probably not the only Brit who wishes you could be barred from
inflicting your wankery on UK politics threads...

Mods, please read this exchange before deleting all the posts related to it.
But please leave it up long enough for other mudcatters to see it,
to form their own opinions...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:08 PM

Will you people grow the fuck up?!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:04 PM

I started this thread due to my association with the NIH and NSAID. While your expertise is now about bar fights.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:49 PM

Hee hee Helen! He starts his 'deep cleaning' tomorrow at the school. I don't know whether they'll give him a mask (several pupils will be there, as children of Key Workers can continue to attend school)
I reckon his boss won't be too happy if he turns up in a bra mask...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:22 PM

When he looks like he's having a panic attack, Senoufou?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:16 PM

An F cup would support a small child on a swing.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:06 PM

In the absence of Mad Magazine I'm glad pfr is here.



but his politics are horribly blind.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:03 PM

I've just told my husband he's going to be wearing a mask made from one of my F-cup bras. He's horrified (He tends to believe everything I tell him) I said not to worry as we'd both be in matching masks.
When should I confess I'm only teasing?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 03:39 PM

Sen - oddly enough, me and the mrs were discussing that,
after I was sat on the bog noticing her washing drying over the bath...

All fun aside, they might actually be a serious contender for make shift emergency masks...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 03:30 PM

Or an old bra pfr, each cup would make a nice mask (mine are quite large)!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 03:03 PM

"still no advice to follow the likes of Korean and Chinese citizens in wearing masks..?"

howzabout making your own from a patriotic British cricket box and jockstrap...???

Howzat...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 02:39 PM

Advice to over 70s in self isolation..

Enjoy catching up on movie and TV boxsets..
But probably best to avoid any TV series which dragged on for more than 2 or 3 seasons,
which were granted a final episode with a satisfying end
to character an narrative arcs...

I'd stick to short mini series, myself.. just in case...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 02:08 PM

...just watched the latest update from Boris and co and still no advice to follow the likes of Korean and Chinese citizens in wearing masks..?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 01:29 PM

I theorize it was all Steve's fault. Watch as this thread gets closed over his UKistic insistence the world live by his rules.

If you are anywhere on this planet your odds are broadly 40% to 80% that you will catch this special cold. If I got a flu test it would still be subject to a 30% false report average. I do not know the exact accuracy for a covid test, If a physician thinks there is a 50 percent chance of the patient having COVID-19, the test will be positive 85 percent of the time. Fifteen percent of the infected patients will incorrectly be diagnosed as not having the disease. If the patient does not have the disease, only 70 percent of the patients will have a negative test. It would take four consecutive negative tests to conclusively prove the patient did not have the disease.


btw I see nothing odd about having the sensation of a lung infection in one lung only.

With Casinos closed we will have to wager on our own that Nigel stays but Steve goes into the eternal yonder soon.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 12:56 PM

One for all and all for one??????

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-french-protective-mask-manufacturer-scraps-nhs-order-to-keep-masks-in-france

https://globalnewshut.com/french-border-guards-impound-trucks-filled-with-130000-face-masks-bound-for-britain/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/business/eu-exports-medical-equipment.html

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 12:21 PM

”I was astounded at the insensitivity of whoever closed the last thread at a time like this - let's not lose too many more with a "it wasn't our side" blame game”

I was astounded at the insensitivity of the three people who wouldn’t stop the flaming and squabbling, despite my appeal as the OP to behave in a civilised manner.

They got what they deserved. Fuck ‘em.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 12:13 PM

Donuel, stop theorising. I'd also add that a one-sided common cold is a phenomenon that is quite possibly, er, new to science...

A man from China coughed right in front of me in Richmond M&S two weeks ago. And what do you know, I didn't catch anything. This is true, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:36 AM

If you had an upper cold as opposed to a deep cold you probably had rhino.

I attended an exclusive dinner with about 25 Chinese people in December. I got a deep painful cold on the right side later. Im not tested but I am curious now if I have covid antibodies. With no high fever I am just whistling past the graveyard.
If I could get tested I could be helping instead of hiding.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM

This is why it isn't going to work to quarantine - because we keep ordering stuff companies shipping through delivery services with workers who aren't given sick leave, and who are penalized if they take sick days anyway.

I may be staying out of the path of most people, but I have ordered a couple of things. So my next goal is to order less, or do it all at one time so there is just one box. And I'm going to set up a hand-washing station on my front porch.

"Terrified" package delivery employees are going to work sick

Truckers and warehouse workers at UPS and FedEx feel they have no choice but to keep showing up, even with coronavirus-like symptoms.

Hour after hour, day after day, the packages keep arriving: food, medicine, clothes, toys and a million other items brought to the doorsteps and building lobbies of Americans who are hunkering down as the coronavirus sweeps the land.

An increasing number of the workers sorting those boxes, loading them into trucks and then transporting and delivering them around the country have fallen sick.

They have coughs, sore throats, aches and fevers — symptoms consistent with the coronavirus. Yet they are still reporting for their shifts in crowded shipping facilities and warehouses and truck depots, fearful of what will happen if they don’t.

“I have been coming in sick because I’m worried that I’ll lose my job or just be punished if I call out,” said Angel Duarte, a package handler at a UPS hub in Tucson, Ariz. “I am 23, and I have no savings, and I have a 4-month-old son.”

UPS, FedEx and XPO Logistics are three of the largest shipping and logistics companies in an industry that collectively delivers about 18 trillion dollars’ worth of goods every year. With millions of Americans now on lockdown, home-delivery orders have soared, and the companies have become among the few power sources keeping the lights on in the darkening United States economy. UPS, for example, is one of the main companies that deliver packages for Amazon.

Public health experts said the odds were relatively low that ill warehouse workers or truck drivers would infect the recipients of packages, in part because the virus does not survive on cardboard surfaces for very long.

But as state governments race to contain the fast-spreading pandemic by shutting down businesses and banning gatherings of more than a handful of people, more than 30 employees of UPS, FedEx and XPO said in interviews and emails that they were worried that their warehouses and trucks had become breeding grounds for the virus.

Some warehouse workers said supervisors had rebuffed them when they pleaded for bleach, masks, gloves and a ready supply of hand sanitizer. In some facilities, even hand soap and paper towels are scarce, employees said. Employees continue to be jammed shoulder to shoulder along conveyor belts and required to maintain rituals such as security pat-downs.

Many workers in the logistics and delivery industry get at most a handful of paid sick days a year. That can push them to work through coughs and fevers. Now, with so many people and businesses relying on a functioning delivery system, the pressure to go in has only intensified, workers said.

A package sorter in a UPS facility near San Francisco said she had been going into work every day, even though her “throat feels like broken glass.” The worker, who requested anonymity, said she was petrified that she would lose her job if she called in sick. “I can’t afford to be homeless,” she said.

Another UPS package handler, Jeff Donigian, who works in Manchester, N.H., said he had been showing up to work feeling ill and coughing. He told a supervisor; he was told to go in anyway.

A UPS driver with a compromised immune system said she had been hauling packages around Northern California despite feeling sick for a week. With an avalanche of orders, her supervisor told her that UPS could not afford to lose her, even for a couple of days.

“While it is possible to find an exception, our work force has been provided information and supplies to manage health risks,” said Steve Gaut, a UPS spokesman.

He said that the company had “substantially increased cleaning and disinfecting surfaces throughout our facilities,” and that the vehicles and equipment were disinfected every day. Masks are being made available to drivers who made deliveries to health care and assisted-living facilities, and the company is “distributing an additional 250,000 bottles of hand sanitizer.”

Mr. Gaut declined to comment on the experiences of the drivers or workers handling packages, but emphasized that UPS did not want sick employees to go into work, adding that the company provides paid time off for those who are infected.

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At XPO, which handles shipping for companies like Disney, Nike and Verizon and has a large fleet of trucks that haul goods nationwide, warehouse workers and truck drivers do not get any paid sick days. The company, which has faced intense criticism from employees about dangerous work conditions in its warehouses, offers to “lend” workers up to 100 hours of time off, but employees have to repay that time.

An XPO warehouse worker and a driver said in interviews that as a result of the company’s policy on sick leave, they had been going into work with coughs and worse.

“The company is shifting the financial burden on the people who can least afford it,” said Mike Zangrillo, a 67-year-old driver for XPO in Miami. If he gets the coronavirus, he said, he plans to keep driving his eighteen-wheeler.

Bob Josephson, an XPO spokesman, said the company had started offering paid time off for workers to be tested for the coronavirus and, if necessary, quarantined. “As the situation evolves, we’re listening to our employees’ concerns and adjusting our policies in real time,” he said.

Dan Baker, a part-time package handler for FedEx in Nashville, worked through a sore throat and stomach problems this month. When he developed a fever, he told his supervisor he needed a day off.

“I really need you here today,” Mr. Baker’s supervisor told him in a text message reviewed by The New York Times. He took the day off anyway. The company marked his absence as unexcused, meaning he got a demerit. Too many demerits can get a worker fired.

“I went to human resources to ask about it, like, ‘Why was I given an unexcused absence, why’d I get in trouble for this, when there’s a pandemic going on?’” Mr. Baker said. “And they were like, ‘I don’t know what to tell you.’”

Mr. Baker described a macho culture at his warehouse, where people have not been taking the virus seriously. One colleague who wore a mask was teased so relentlessly that he took it off. Mr. Baker overheard another colleague telling a security guard that his mother had tested positive but that he had to gone to work anyway.

“It’s not going to do these people who are ordering and hoarding this stuff any good if everyone handling the packages are sick,” he said.

Jenny Robertson, a FedEx spokeswoman, said the company had been urging employees “to take any signs of illness seriously and seek medical attention as needed.” She said that the company had been frequently disinfecting facilities and vehicles and that it had recently increased paid sick leave available to some employees.

Ms. Robertson arranged for The Times to speak with a driver in Garden City, N.Y., who said FedEx had provided him with gloves, hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes for his truck. The driver, Raymond Wenz, said he had nine days of personal and sick days to use if he fell ill. He said he was confident that, if needed, he could use his three weeks of vacation, which must normally be scheduled in advance.

“I’m pretty sure that if I’m in a bind, they would work with you,” Mr. Wenz said.

Truck drivers for UPS, FedEx and XPO said they were grateful for a recent change: Customers no longer need to sign for deliveries. That means no shared pens and no need to get within six feet of customers.

The drivers described operating in what felt like a world hollowed out by sickness. On Facebook, they swap photos wearing gas masks. Regular customers will not let the drivers use bathrooms. It can be hard for them to find places to wash their hands along the routes, especially as more and more businesses close.

Nick Perry, a 32-year-old UPS driver in Columbus, Ohio, said his supervisors had told him that he could not have Lysol wipes or hand sanitizer in his truck without paperwork listing the ingredients, as required by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. Mr. Perry said he feared for his twin boys, who have a history of serious respiratory problems.

“I didn’t think I’d be on the front line of the pandemic,” he said. “But here I am, and I am terrified for the public’s health, and for my parents and for my family.”

On Wednesday, Gov. Mike DeWine of Ohio urged businesses to take the temperatures of all employees before they entered workplaces and to be “aggressive in regard to cleaning surfaces and having soap/hand sanitizer available.”

Mr. Perry said a manager had told him that the governor’s directive was not a “mandate” and that UPS’s Columbus trucking facility did not have the necessary resources to comply.

Some UPS workers created a petition to push the company to better sanitize common areas and give employees 14 days of paid time off if they needed to be in quarantine after exposure to the coronavirus. In about 24 hours, more than 10,000 workers signed the petition, according to David Levin, an organizer with Teamsters for a Democratic Union, which helped coordinate the petition.

On Wednesday, UPS agreed to give people 10 paid days to stay home if they or their members of their immediate family received a coronavirus diagnosis or if they needed to quarantine themselves.

But Fen Davidson, who identifies as nonbinary and works at the same UPS hub in Tucson as Mr. Duarte, said there was still pressure to come in.

This week, Mr. Davidson said, a supervisor told them that taking too many sick days could cost them their job. “They don’t want people faking sick, I guess, but what they are doing is creating a climate of fear,” said Mr. Davidson, 33.

One of the workers nearby on the conveyor belt line has been complaining of body aches.

“He has been coughing all week,” Mr. Davidson said. “But he can’t afford to lose this job.”

The New York Times is making it's coronavirus information available without going through the firewall.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:23 AM

"Novel corona" [sic] doesn't generally "kill." The vast majority of deaths are caused by the virus in cahoots with other serious medical conditions, and the death rate, admittedly proving difficult to pin down, always represents a small minority of infections.

A considerable majority of common cold infections may be put down to rhinoviruses, possibly most. Human coronaviruses cause a minority of colds. A number of other virus types can also cause colds. Comment is free but facts are sacred (and easily accessible).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:05 AM

I am still meeting Trumpists who believe this really is all a hoax. They are persuadable only to a halfway point but not a behavior change. More Democrats are in isolation than republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:01 AM

Yes Steve rhino virus does cause some colds.
How does novel Corona kill? Xrays show cotton like areas in the lungs that resemble end stage tuberculosous. The unique pnumonia is brought about by a cytokine storm which floods the lungs suffocating its victim.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 10:05 AM

For heaven's sake, can you not take this personal vendetta elsewhere before you close yet another thread? We all know you don't like Steve. Or Jim. Or me for that matter. Well, not many people like you either, Iains, but we don't go all out to shut down the threads you post to. We are all in this together. The government of the day will always get criticised. Grow up and get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 09:53 AM

I think the real explanation for the Chinese figures flattening is that when they say lockdown it is both an edict and strictly enforced.
Elsewhere it is being treated as playtime.
The next few weeks will show the error of their ways by way of increasing rates of infection and no levelling off. Numbers doubling every 4 to 6 days become un-manageable within a couple of weeks.
Figures suggest critical care runs at 70% bed occupancy in the winter months. A respiratory pandemic on top in the UK will soon swamp both these and other emergency facilities. This pandemic is also taking a toll on doctors, nurses and ancillary staff further exacerbating the problems.
In a democracy response to a pandemic will always be too little too late, and then the responses endlessly criticised!
as exemplified by
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 10:58 AM
By all means close schools and cancel football matches in hotspots. Otherwise, give me one rational reason for the suggested panicky overreacting we are getting, even in this thread. Nice opportunistic swipe at money-spinnng events, etc. But you can bet your life that the real reason for the draconian actions of the Chinese regime is a lot more to do with ensuring that their money-spinning capitalist economy doesn't go into free all, and watch that space if the US gets a few more cases...
and
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:42 AM
The only people now being tested in this country are people in hospital. From here on in, stats on numbers of infected people are useless. Now excuse me as I'm off to panic buy five bananas.
and
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 06:23 PM

He's out of his depth, and we are well behind the curve when we look at what other EU countries are doing. The talk of herd immunity was the talk of scoundrels. Without an effective vaccine, herd immunity would be achieved by the vast majority of the population catching the disease and tens of thousands, at best, dying. The term is generally used only in the context of immunity achieved via vaccination, not via plague.
and
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 07:30 PM

Right.

I've watched Johnson's press conferences. I've watched him bumbling along, clearly totally out of his depth, clearly not understanding what's going on.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 09:37 AM

Most colds are caused by rhinoviruses, not coronaviruses.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:46 AM

Brits are not known to be a touchy feely culture with broad sweeping hand gestures, Italiens are.

Culturally Arabs/Persians speak to each other at about 22 inches. Americans normaly have a distance 4 or 5 feet.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:36 AM

I do not think a predacessor of Covid 19 confered a partial immunity to the Chinese. Old fashioned Corona virus is the common cold and we all have had a cold - except Bruce Willis in unbreakable.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:29 AM

I read today that Italy's population is quite elderly with a average age of 47. I don't know what China's average age is but I expect it to be quite younger. Those presenting with symptoms would have been weaker.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:25 AM

The total lockdown appears to have worked, if external experts are to be believed.

I wish you were right but that fact that their graph of deaths shows an asymptote, Italy's doesn't yet with number of deaths not dissimilar.

China has seen something similar in the past which confers a measure of immunity, that Italy hasn't, IMNSHO.

Maybe Italian culture is not as obedient, but military guns on the street! Who would argue?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:11 AM

As cataclysims go this is a really gentle and fun one.
Our homes are not reduced to rubble from n earthquake, we can breathe the air until sick, unlike a mega eruption or an asteroid impact. we can drink the water which is mostly free of radiation. We can listen to music of our choice. We can gargle with Drambuie if we want and of course a spike in births will occur in 9 months.

You can even watch the disintegration of the world on TV. No need to miss a single moment of the agonizing holocaust.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 06:56 AM

Well Trump predicted that the virus will go away like magic abracadaver POOF

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 06:36 AM

Bill Gates called it in 2015 on TED.com he ain't no mug, and he warned us after the Ebola debacle in 2015.

he reckoned it would cost the world 20 trillion dollars in an outbreak. and 10 million deaths. Well the first prediction is probably understating it, let us hope his other prediction is way over the top.

But he didn't get to where he is today .............................

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 06:10 AM

Some real figures with attached critique. I suspect China's crackdown will be a salutary lesson to us all. The total lockdown appears to have worked, if external experts are to be believed. Meanwhile where Italy is today there is an unfortunate chance other European countries will follow in the nexr few weeks.


https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Countries where the rate of increase is levelling are China, N.Korea and Iran. More obedient society? or draconian controls? or willEuropean trajectories flttae.
The link has some interactive charts.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:43 AM

mg, I hope your brother recovers and that you can be strong to help him and to look after yourself as well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 04:44 AM

UK Gov figures update brace yourselves, stiff upper lip Brits.

BBC on Italy the graph shows Italian deaths v China and Italy is being hit much harder. I see that as showing that Chna have had previous outbreaks of a parent viruses of COVID-19 that didn't travel far. Thus there are more people who had relative immunity in the Wuhan area. And maybe there are climatic factors in the Lombardy region that favour COVID-19. We truly don't know what we are dealing with, fully.

The link shows Italy has armed military on the streets. It is war! But on the plus side we are fighting a common enemy, the self-isolation is bringing us together.
We are indeed living in interesting times.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 04:16 AM

I also wish him a full recovery mg. Thinking of you. Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 03:35 AM

mg I wish your brother a full recovery

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 02:14 AM

it looks like my brother who is handicapped has it. helping him will be difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 07:12 PM

Mortality figures do mean something, if the source is reliable. China for that, anyone? Figures for numbers infected give a massive ballpark country by country, but are otherwise useless, as testing regimes are too varied and as we know that many infected people either don't know they're infected, don't want it to get out that they're infected, or can't be arsed. There's an egregious case in Bude at the moment of a very wealthy second-homeowner who has been exposed to the virus in London but who came down yesterday anyway. And was seen chatting upclose and personal to our unsuspecting postman this morning. Multiply pillocks like that by tens of thousands. It don't take many like her, does it? I chatted to our postman this morning after the incident but before I knew about it. I wonder how many other people he's chatted with today...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 03:53 PM

Crude data requires more than crude interpretation.


https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/8eadd0-an-analysis-of-the-438-cases-of-covid-19-in-ireland-as-of-wednesday-18-m/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 03:25 PM

The figures speak for themselves. Italy 10% mortality. Uk 5%. Norway 1%.

The explanations are not as simple.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 03:05 PM

If you do not like the way the figures are presented I suggest you take it up with the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Controlwho collated the figures. I suspect they knowa little bit more about it than point scoring nit pickers. The figures in the table were the Situation update for the EU/EEA and the UK, as of 21 March 2020

For EU hospitalbed for varying levels of care see below
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8/tables/2
Research from Italy into 355 deaths found that only three (0.8%) had no other illnesses. Nearly half of them - 48.5% - already had three or even more health conditions Another 25.6% had two other 'pathologies', while 25.1% had one other illness

0-8   1.2%
19-50 25%



I

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 02:10 PM

I still don't know how many of our UK reported deaths
would have probably died anyway around about now, or fairly soon;
if covid hadn't finished them off first..

why does it matter...???

In treading a careful balance between panic and complacency,
the media needs to keep a sensible perspective on the developing story.
Not over-sensationalise the crisis...

What are the stats for deaths of younger fitter victims
[with no pre-existing underlying health problems]...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 01:24 PM

The figures above only show the vast difference between the number of cases recorded between countries.

Italy 40000 cases and 4000 deaths is 10% mortality. UK is 5%. Norway is 1%. Work out the rest yourself but either someone is understating the number of cases, the health care in Italy is crap or the figures are otherwise skewed.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 12:31 PM

EU/EEA and the UK         Sum of Cases         Sum of Deaths
Italy                                  47021                      4032
Spain                                 19980                      1002
Germany                           18323                      45
France                               12612                      450
United_Kingdom             3983                         177
Netherlands                      2994                        106
Austria                              2649                        6
Belgium                            2257                      37
Norway                            742                         7
Sweden                            1623                        16
Denmark                         1255                         9
Portugal                           1020                        6
Czech_Republic               904                         0
Ireland                              683                         3

It helps to keep some sort of perspective and stop politicising

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 09:23 AM

That site may help many make decisions in the long run Mr.Red.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 08:56 AM

Gov Figures/graphs

the daily figures are panning out to display the classic saw-tooth pattern. Which I see as the natural rise of cases, with Gov advice/edicts reigning back the numbers in steps as they kick in. Given the task it is the best they can do medically. Financially we are in for a nuclear winter.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 08:24 AM

Daughter told me via Skype this morning that a friend had a tin of soup actually taken from their hand yesterday.

Depressing that some of us are at that point.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 08:14 AM

That's a great piece by Marina, John.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 07:15 AM

Lets hope your sturdy neice has a 14 day quarantine

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 04:39 AM

Our village shop and the pub 'The Fox' (which has had to close) have posted on our village residents Facebook site that they will deliver food and even cooked meals to those who are isolated for whatever reason. And the village hall committee have also drawn up a system for checking on elderly residents who need assistance. Our vicar too is doing all she can to organise food deliveries and support.
It's wonderful to see this community spirit springing into action.
My sister has now formally registered as a retired consultant available for specialist ventilation care in her local hospital. And my niece has now recovered from what we think could have been Covid 19, to register as a volunteer.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 03:49 AM

from a member here..
hang a red cloth from your window if you need help. what a great idea.


Red cloth to ask for help
MARIE-FRANCE LÉTOURNEAU
The Voice of the East
Share

The City of Granby is following suit with the red cloth initiative launched on social networks in France, as part of the COVID-19 pandemic. She encourages single people who need help to hang a red cloth on the window to signal it to their neighbors.

Cultural and Community Life (VCC) in Granby promotes the idea on its Facebook page.

“In these times of isolation at home, people can find themselves alone and with few means to communicate their needs for help, whether for missing medicines or a lack of food. If you find yourself in this situation, we invite you to hang a red cloth on your window, on your door or on your balcony, in order to indicate to your neighbors that you need help. You can hang a towel, a scarf, a sweater or a tie for example ”, argues VCC.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 09:24 PM

The Global pandemic is no longer coming, it is here there and everywhere. (the heart goes on)

Every night on TV
I see it, I hear it
That's how I know Covid goes on
Far across the distance
And spaces between us
You have come to show you go on
Here, there, wherever you are
I believe that the virus goes on
Once more you open the door
And you're here in my nose
And my cough will go on and on
Covid can touch us one time
And last for a lifetime
And never let go 'til we're gone

Once more…

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 07:34 PM

There has been a fall in the confirmed numbers in Ireland
Thursday : .......an increase of diagnosed cases with 191 new confirmed cases.

Friday :"There have been a further 126 cases of Covid-19 confirmed in Ireland, the Department of Health has said, bringing the total number of cases here to 683. "
The RTE online report doesn't allude to the drop other than by quoting the head of the Health Service, Dr Holohan, saying

"Now is not the time for complacency,"

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 05:15 PM

Marina Hyde, right on the button In the Guardian, about Dom & Dumber’s (mis-)handling of the UK’s crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 04:39 PM

I get it now. Go ahead and take out whatever stress or frustration on this thread or elsewhere. If ever there was need to do so, it is now.
Mental health will be advanced with freedom - not additional rules.

Sorry, Im not usually a rules kind of guy.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 01:49 PM

There are so many recriminations to go around we are in danger of focusing only on that to the exclusion of a small detail that will increase your chance of survival. So..

So and So FUCKED UP

Move on And defend yourself.

IN CASE YOU NEED a fix...
The US President just said moments ago "I have not received the credit I deserve".

- CLEARLY SINCE HE'S NOT BEEN HUNG UPSIDE DOWN LIKE mUSSOLINI

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 12:17 PM

Two points..

1] mg - please don't take this the wrong way, it's not sarcasm or intended as any slight against you.
But instead a practical suggestion..

Her goes.. In the UK at least we are being implored by official sources
NOT to spread internet hearsay and rumour about the virus or possible remedies..
Official fact checkers are working flat out to list believable sounding
but stupid ideas circulating social media..

So, mg - my suggestion is why don't you open a separate thread
where you can notify us of things you hear and speculate about.

That way we can discuss them fairly,
but open mindedly with full objectivity and sensible consideration...



2] Politics - Politicians should be held to account
for trying to weaponize this pandemic for their own gain over rivals.
But that aint gonna happen in the real world..

However in this thread, we ought to keep partisan political party allegiances out of the discussion
as much as possible.

Here in the UK it is inescapably relevant to acknowledge if a Govt was too slow to act positively
and effectively,
because of entrenched Laissez-faire ideology.

But a reality check kick up the arse is now at least motivating them to to try to look as though
they know what they are doing to send corona packing...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 11:41 AM

CAPITALISM ROWS IN TO FIGHT THE EMERGENCY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 07:26 AM

The data below shows the worldwide numbers infected.
Do the figures for Italy Spain and France and even Ireland indicate the road the UK will follow when it comes to the progression?

Country #/milliom       Deaths
Italy          679             3406
Spain         427             1002
Iran            219             1284
Germany   198             44
US             17               43
France      168             372
UK            48               144
Ireland      113             3
Interesting the worldometer site sees fit to list the rate of infection per million of population as a useful metric.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 07:06 AM

Our usual death population is 2.7 million per year. CORONA will add another 2.2 million - doubling our dearly departed.

"when you put it that way, it only sounds serious"
The Donald

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 06:43 AM

Schools here shut down at the end of today. Husband (full-time school cleaner) has been told there will be work for him as usual, deep-cleaning and so on. Also, there may be a few pupils accepted if their parents are 'key workers', so he'll be cleaning toilets and one or two classrooms, taking out rubbish etc.
He's been issued with a sort of mini hazmat suit of plastic, and must wear two pairs of rubber gloves one over the other (!) Extra disinfectant has arrived in large quantities, so it all seems well thought out.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 06:28 AM

The COVID-19 death rate — the number of known deaths divided by the total number of confirmed cases — varies widely by country right now. In Italy, as of Tuesday, it was about 8%, while in the US it was 1.7%.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 05:56 AM

current totals on Gov figure are 3269 cases and 144 deaths.

Death rate of < 0.5%. That tells me that:

1) not all cases are reported to official channels. eg Self-isolation rather than resorting to health systems.
2) or in the UK enough have acquired a level of immunity from previous rounds. And I have heard of several examples of coughs (dry?) that lingered for 4 weeks and other symptoms, occurring before Xmas.
3) The UK are an unusually tough bunch (unlikely, but we can dream).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 05:03 AM

There should have been testing, at least of NHS workers

In fact, even that is not good enough. Yes, you can filter out the ones with the illness. But those who are clear are only clear at the moment of the test sample. So actually the NHS staff need to be retested fairly constantly: weekly or daily if possible.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 03:07 AM

worse than I would have predicted. i have thoughts along those lines but pm me if you want to hear them.

Is anyone here a respiratory therapist ? I am wondering if what is used to treat cystic fibrosis patients, at least in the past, would be helpful if no ventilators. I believe they need help breathing because of fluid or sticky stuff in lungs..if they could dislodge it, wouldn't that be better than nothing? Also all I hear about is ventilators...don't they use suction? It seems if you could get rid of the gunk that would help.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 20 Mar 20 - 01:33 AM

Funeral homes 're-using body bags, gowns' due to COVID-19 supply restrictions

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 10:48 PM

It won't help me, mg, because my sense of smell has always been problematic. It has its up sides sometimes. I could work as a forensic pathologist or a garbage collector.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 10:47 PM

If you end up on a ventilator your odds are still 50-50.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 09:29 PM

wasn't letting me type. anyway, some people are now reporting a loss of smell as a symptom. Could help to diagnose.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 07:30 PM

Right.

I've watched Johnson's press conferences. I've watched him bumbling along, clearly totally out of his depth, clearly not understanding what's going on. I watched the confounded idiot Hancock on Question Time, alternating between bumbling-fool mode and nodding-donkey mode.

This government is actually killing people. There should have been testing, at least of NHS workers, preferably of everybody with any symptoms. South Korea is testing five times more people per day than us, and they're knocking the thing on its head. As it goes, we don't know who's got the thing, who's had the thing and who hasn't. We can't track down contacts. Sick doctors and nurses are passing on the germ to patients, because they don't know they're harbouring it. We've told kids hoping to get to university that they can't go to school any more, but we haven't told them how they're going to be assessed. There are millions of people who are suddenly going to be laid off, but we haven't told them as yet how we're going to stop them from sleeping in cardboard boxes in doorways this time next week. It's bloody shocking, it is. And it's Tory Britain, to the nth degree. They run down the NHS. They mercilessly strip local councils of their funding. They promote the gig economy and zero-hours contracts but they won't support the millions who are forced to live that way when they're suddenly shafted by their "employers." Gimme strength...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 05:28 PM

A thought:
The UK Gov have declined to have a legally enforceable lock-down.
Call be a curmudgeonly old cynic but we are edging visibly closer to April 6th. Traditionally the Income Tax submission deadline. Proof of history.

With a legally enforceable curfew businesses can claim on their insurance for losses, depending on clauses thereto. Which the insurance companies have recourse on Gov. & a lot of workers' out-of-work benefits are seriously affected.

Curfew too early and people can massage (falsify?() their accounts to favour some advantage.

Now, what is the deadline for company accounts?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 04:54 PM

From the punk graffitti I saw spray painted in University District Seattle:

"OBEY ALL LAWS! BE A MODEL CITIZEN!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 02:03 PM

More wisdom via SRS
1. Your life will begin to feel like Groundhog Day. Be prepared.

2. Glass half full, people. Remind yourself how lucky you are to be alive. It makes the self-quarantining seem like less of a big deal.

3. Watch those movies and read those books on that ever-growing list in the notes section of your phone.

4. Take advantage of the extra time with your family and loved ones, if you are not sick yourself.

5. Explore journaling and meditation to deal with increased anxiety.

6. Most importantly, take it seriously. Follow the advice from the CDC and other health experts.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 01:21 PM

Love the pattersong!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 01:14 PM

Let's leave that kind of humor for another thread and another day.

During the daily press conferences from the White House there is information from experts and there is nonsense and whining from the resident. These public events would be much better with only those who know what they're talking about being given access to the mic. Let's leave the BS in Washington, D.C. for now.

Making masks - as someone who has a lifetime of sewing experience, I wonder if we're going to see home-grown mask production one of these days soon? Given the materials, people could crank them out, then if they're all run through an autoclave to sterilize them, they'd be good to go. If people can knit artificial pockets for kangaroos and covers for baby penguins, maybe it's time to start turning that creativity to something that can be standardized (sort of) and put to use.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 12:47 PM

Daily hilarity about bums and poo keeps my old mum's spirits up,
now she's wearing nappies again..

..can't be snooty about good healthy toilet humour...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM

Educated consensus seems to be established that the general public wearing face masks
is a pointless false sense of security..

But some 'experts' are still recommending such protection,
and news reports show global wearing of makeshift scarves, tea towels, and hankies, etc..

Wrapping our heads in cling film and breathing through a snorkel...???

Is there actually a serious definitive conclusive scientific/governmental decision on this matter...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 11:24 AM

Hello.. is this the daily roll call thread for mudcatters who are still breathing...???

pfr - HERE...

[though if the register is alphabetical, any mudcatters with names beginning with "Z"
might have snuffed it by the time their names are called...]

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 05:03 AM

The Gov graphs are showing the dip I thought was a false dawn was just that. Daily case in the UK still rising, and not decelerating yet.

But on the plus side shops are trying to attract trade with humour so am posting photographs on my website(s):

covid-19.mister.red (opens in new tab) - Enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 04:44 AM

This is starting to go the rounds, I thought I'd cut'n'paste it here before anyone else!

I am the very model of effective social distancing!
I listen to the experts on the topic of resistance-ing;
I know that brunch and yoga class aren’t nearly as imperative
As doing what I can to change the nation’s viral narrative.
I’m very well acquainted, too, with living solitarily
And confident that everyone can do it temporarily:
Go take a walk, or ride a bike, or dig into an unread book;
Avoid the bars and restaurants and carry out, or learn to cook.
There’s lots of stuff to watch online while keeping safe from sinus ills
(In this case, it’s far better to enjoy your Netflix MINUS chills)!
Adopt a pet, compose a ballad, write some earnest doggerel,
And help demolish Trump before our next event inaugural.
Pandemics are alarming, but they aren’t insurmountable
If everybody pitches in to hold ourselves accountable.
In short, please do your part to practice prudent co-existence-ing,
And be the very model of effective social distancing!
(Credit unknown)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 04:00 AM

Behind the curve? Fortunately yes compared to certain other EU countries:
Cases of Covid19 infection.(ECDC 18.3.20)
Europe: Italy (31 506), Spain (11 178), France (7 730), Germany (7 156), Switzerland (2 650), United Kingdom (1 950), Netherlands (1 705), Austria (1 332), Norway (1 308), Belgium (1 243), Sweden (1 167), Denmark (1 024), Portugal (448), Czech Republic (434), Greece (387), Finland (319), Ireland (292), Slovenia (275), Iceland (247), Poland (238), Estonia (225), Romania (217), Luxembourg (140), Russia (114), San Marino (104), Turkey (98), Slovakia (97), Bulgaria (81), Armenia (78), Serbia (72), Croatia (69), Latvia (61), Albania (55), Hungary (50), Cyprus (40), Malta (38), Belarus (36), Georgia (34), North Macedonia (31), Moldova (30), Azerbaijan (28), Lithuania (25), Bosnia and Herzegovina (21), Kosovo** (19), Andorra (14), Ukraine (14), Monaco (9), Liechtenstein (7), Montenegro (2) and Holy See (1).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 01:54 AM

yes. and actually they are saying something called hydroxychloroquine is even more hopeful.

There are a lot of hopeful things being looked at, in terms of testing and possible treatments. One was vitamin c and b1 with another compound. I do not think things will get as bad as possible but I do think it is very serious indeed.

Has everyone seen the Irish doctor who talks about not waiting to be 100% sure because by then you will be too late. I think there are things that are not harmful, like eating garlic, wearing more face masks even if they are out in stores..people are making their own and plus hospitals are asking for home-made ones..some traditional chinese medicine...

elon musk is being persuaded or encouraged to make ventilators in his factories. that would be good. he asked where they were needed. i mentioned some seattle hospitals, but basically everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 01:43 AM

mg, I just read this in an ABC New (Aust) article about the study on an older HIV drug and chloroquine:

Could existing drugs treat COVID-19 infections?

"Early signs are promising, after Australian researchers this week revealed they are ready to begin clinical trials of a potential treatment for COVID-19 — using two existing drugs.

"The drugs in question are an older HIV drug and an anti-malaria drug called chloroquine, which is rarely used now as the malaria pathogen has become resistant to it.

"'There's certainly positive signals either this HIV drug or this anti-malaria drug actually work really well against COVID-19,' David Paterson, director of the Centre for Clinical Research at the University of Queensland, told The Project.

"'There's certainly positive signals either this HIV drug or this anti-malaria drug actually work really well against COVID-19', David Paterson, director of the Centre for Clinical Research at the University of Queensland, told The Project."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 10:11 PM

If you click on "share" (under the video, to the right side) a box will appear with a much shorter version of the URL than if you search and grab it from the top of the page.

https://youtu.be/ZzNqJ7iu8GU

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 08:46 PM

was trying to make a blue cicky but clicky machine was down. that is the astoria shake

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 08:45 PM

https://youtu.be/ZzNqJ7iu8GU

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 06:42 PM

if you are out of toilet paper and using substitutes, do not put them down the toilet.even kleenex..put in a closed can and burn if disposable. causing all sorts of plumbing problems. someone posted four of eleven pumping stations are clogged with wipes and other products. if you need a plumber, will they be available? i think it is a prime group for catching anything and might be slow to adopt gloves, masks, etc. Some studies suggest fecal droplets can spread virus. you don't want to add a clogged up toilet to your woes.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 06:40 PM

For those worried about finding loopaper, and distrustful of modern newspapers, Private Eye has a solution

Fortunately Private eye still relies on old-fashioned print and paper...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 06:23 PM

He's out of his depth, and we are well behind the curve when we look at what other EU countries are doing. The talk of herd immunity was the talk of scoundrels. Without an effective vaccine, herd immunity would be achieved by the vast majority of the population catching the disease and tens of thousands, at best, dying. The term is generally used only in the context of immunity achieved via vaccination, not via plague.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 05:44 PM

My feeling is that Russia is very likely correct in indicating their numbers of infected is low. When they want to clamp down on people acting in ways that spread the infection, the clamp down is pretty effective.

As has been the case in China, once they'd got a grip on things - the figures for new cases appears to be way way down now.
...........

The initial evident decision of the UK government seems to have been to go for minimal efforts to stop it spreading, in the hope that if everyone got it, and the survivors would have "herd immunity".

Problem being, if 50 million got it, and there's a one in a hundred chance of dying - which is a lot lower than some estimates - that would have meant half a million dead. So, faced with the situation that everone else was doing everything to stop transmission, they fortunately seem to have made a U- turn. Trying to disguise things by talking about introducing things tgat would reduced transmission "only at the right time", as if somehow slowly infection rates reduced the danger of a peak of infections.

It's frightening to look at Boris Johnson waffling on and looking life a terrified rabbit in his daily press conferences. Almost as bad as looking at Trump babbling away.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 03:38 PM

pfr, I've been wondering about Russia but I suspect they would be playing their cards close to their chest by keeping their data under wraps.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 03:09 PM

Well said, SPB-Cooperator Date: 18 Mar 20 - 07:43 AM

In Australia, following the prolonged years of drought, catastrophic bushfires, then floods our farming areas have copped a severe beating, however they are making a comeback so we are relying on them to supply food to the nation. A lot of farmers were already leaving their farms after years of drought so the other natural disasters might have been the last straw for some. The big hit of rain that we had helped with the drought so crops and livestock had a better chance of survival, but then caused floods in some areas.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 03:00 PM

"and for added security as an eight years old as well!"

that'd make bedtime with the mrs a bit too pervy...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 02:57 PM

Pfr if it is A you are bugg***d or you can self identify as Type O and for added security as an eight years old as well!

MayoMick Yes it was Imperial released the study and the government broke the gearbox while ramping up through the gears in order to make the requisite moves to combat a vastly increased perceived threat.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196234/covid19-imperial-researchers-model-likely-impact/
It presents a vicious problem as the data is dodgy, patchy and vastly inadaquate for the required task. But it is all there is to work with
The Great Flu pandemic of 100 years ago still has little confidence in the accuracy of the numbers impacted and the true mortality rate. Such is the nature of the beast.
The 250k death rate presumably accounts for the rapidly ramped up response by government and similarly I would suggest that locking up granny an d social exclusion measures may"optimistically drive the projected deaths down by 90% to the stated 20k. Let us wish them good luck with the measures and hope they are 100% successful.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 01:32 PM

It's a bloody good job I don't know my blood type...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 01:25 PM

I hope that the revised figure is right .Was it the Imperial College London study published two days ago predicting 250,000 deaths in the UK that you were referring to,Iains? I was going to post a link but see that it's been taken down.

The New York Post is quoting a limited study in China suggesting that people with A blood types are more susceptible to the virus and more likely to die if they do catch it:
The study also examined 206 patients who died from the virus, finding 85 victims, or 41.26 percent, had type A blood. Just 52 of the deaths, or about a quarter, had type O

https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/people-with-blood-type-a-might-be-more-susceptible-to-coronavirus-study-finds/?fbclid=IwAR3cpfn6JwqAaelC2kMdXaXwJdDi42Dw9bGBcygfZhPSdWxEe5HVfM9GgGk

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 12:59 PM

"Sounds like good news to me."
Me too - though that sort of good fortune is bound to be resented bitterly in some quarters, as has become quickly obvious
Perhaps it would have been better to let this thing take its course as they are doing in Northern Ireland by refusing schools permission to close when some of the pupils have been struck down according to today's news
It's still a toss up whether it#s going to happen in Britain as a whole
FECKIN' INSANE
Great thing living in the 'free west' sometimes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 12:57 PM

The problem of insufficient accurate data
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-withou
It provides a reasonable summary of the problem

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM

The measures adopted in China were "Draconian" and obeyed.
Western society is less obedient and the state does not have absolute control and can only react to events in a way the public will mostly accept. We see the impact of that approach in the numbers infected in Europe. To suggest a death toll in the UK of 20000 when common flu kills 17000 each year is optimism on steroids I suspect. It is either a far less dangerous infection than they say or there is a cunning plan to stop infection outright somewhere down the tracks.
I do not believe either.
.A figure was quoted of 220k UK deaths several dats ago now 10% of that figure is quoted as an optimistic outcome. There has been no explanation for the revised anticipated mortality and does not correlate with 55 deaths equating to 55k infected in the community. Maybe an explanation will be forthcoming.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 12:20 PM

‘THE Chinese Virus’!!

Bloody iPad predictive text!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 12:19 PM

Wonder why Trump insists on referring to Covid-19 as They Chinese Virus’? He’s just done it again on TV at the beginning of his press-conference.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 12:18 PM

There is too much of this rapidly escalated global emergency shut down,
which raises suspicions amongst us more politically cynical folks..

The world needs to pull together and pool resources to combat a real viral threat..

BUT.. when super powers and money markets are involved.....??????????

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 12:07 PM

It seems that in China the number of new cases is dropping and they are now lowering the state of emergency. Sounds like good news to me.

What does puzzle me is that if this is so and given that the global deaths is now 8000 and odd, how does the prediction of 20000 just for the UK fit in. What am I misding?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 10:21 AM

that should of course be 2626 tested positive. (some of my keyboard jkeys are getting a little iffy)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 10:19 AM

262 tested positive today. Doubled in 4 days.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 09:47 AM

BBC news reported last night on the blaming of the Kremlin for a massive info war
to destabilise the West's response to pandemic...

Is Covid to scared of Putin to risk infecting Russia...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 09:33 AM

And I wish sites like Twitter would apply that policy to Donald Trump...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 09:30 AM

I hope people can avoid using this forum as a place to post dodgy rumours and shaky statistics.

It may be too optimistic to think that there won't be some people who can't resist doing that - in such cases it would be good if the posts were deleted, and the posters responsible asvised they risk been barred.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 08:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EH1G4EwljM
This has been updated for pensioners: (Dad's Army)
       "We are cocooned!"

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 08:16 AM

Short of recriminations, repeating myself or info that can be found anywhere, there is nothing more I can add.

Harden your defenses, enjoy what you can and be safe.
Is been fun.
Donuel

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 07:53 AM

Listening to a fascinating broadcast on How Trump is handling the crisis politically
He started y claiming it was all "DEMOCRATIC PLOT" based on "fake news"
Now he is saying that HE KNEW IT WAS A PANDEMIC ALL ALONG
Instead of taking the lead he has appointed representatives to take the brunt - if all goes smoothly he takes the creadit, if it goes wrong he blames them
There's a description of how he blamed his main man for not doing enough, he was told, "You're the \president - you do more"
He blames China for the virus while his aides have been publicly telling anti-Chinese racist jokes to an Asian reporter
He hasn't forgotten THE PUBLIC in all this, of course

I thought our lot were bad.....
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 07:43 AM

Are we, as a nation, adequately prepared for this summer's/autumn's labour shortages in getting food stuffs from the fields to people's tables? We have already told seasonal agricultural workers that they are not welcome here. Are we really going to be able to mobilise enough vulnerable domestic 'workers' to fill the gap? And in the next couple of years, how much land use will go over to more profitable commodities like bio-fuels. I understand that this has already caused food shortages in other parts of the world.

The world needs to wake up, start doing joined up thinking or openly admit that human lives are expendable in the pursuit of wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM

We are back to the begining:


From: Donuel - PM
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 04:21 PM

The spread of the human to human mutation of the Coronavirus has already put 33 million people on lockdown. Once infected there is a death rate of 1 in 3 (34 %)?

Might I suggest relaxing Mudcat rules on posting to BS after the pandemic passes in 3 years.

There are currently no known antivirals or vaccines. Do not believe Trump> there are no connections to Mexican beer, in fact the disease began in snakes.

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Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel - PM
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 04:25 PM

..there are no known cures or antivirals and vaccines to treat this strain, however its DNA genome has been sent to labs worldwide.

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Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons - PM
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 04:40 PM

The BBC quotes 26 deaths from 830 confirmed cases. This is hardly a death rate of 1 in 3.
Please don't spread doom and despondency without some simple facts.
I accept that you may have misread the BBC pageHere which states:
How deadly is it?
Twenty-six people are known to have died from the virus - 3-4% of the known cases.
But the infection seems to take a while to kill, so more of those patients may yet die.

Note that that page says 3-4%, NOT 34%

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Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:10 PM

It has nothing to do with us Genomes. You can't even spell it right!

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Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel - PM
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 07:05 PM

Nigel , without your knowing incubation time and spouting nonsense from your state news service you have drawn an ill informed conclusion as well.
This brand new mutated version does not obey the rules you have assumed. I thought I introduced the subject with appropriate levity.
Thats OK, I know the messenger is seldom believed.
In any disaster in the initial early stages, reported numbers are highly massaged.

You have a case in Scotland and Ireland already.

The new rules for locking down areas of China is unique and involves 20-35 million people during a holiday month. The Great Wall is closed along with all amusement parks, theatres etc.

Incubation is 5 days and will bloom starting this weekend.

Dave: Please disregard any warning containing a spelling error but please do not try to fly to WuHan province.

I suppose many Americans don't know that 8,000 have died from the common flu this season.
1 in 3 is not as bad as the Ebola death rate which has decreased this year.

Check the language from the CDC

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Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains - PM
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 02:56 AM

Apparently the median age for deaths is 75, so likely underlying conditions have an impact.

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Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red - PM
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 03:52 AM

so likely underlying conditions have an impact.

So that's OK for the demographic of Folkies then?

Apparently the impact of the lock-down at Wuhan (8 Million) and neighbouring large cites is mostly all embracing, helped by the lunar new year. Maybe panic is the wrong approach, but serious caution is warranted. The Scottish cases hadn't been confirmed as the coronovirus as of last midnight (GMT), but the suspected cases were from Wuhan. And there are reckoned to be 2000 people being traced by UK authorities in connection. Some of who may have been in transit to other destinations.

Face masks are common in Wuhan right now.

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Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons - PM
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 07:54 AM


I'm guessing you have no facts to base your doom-mongering on,

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 05:45 AM

From today's Guardian (they clain truth was not hurt during the making of this article)
What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?

It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization’s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.
Several things to note about the article.
The WHO mortality rate is rude crude and grossly exaggerates.
The common flu has a mortality rate of 0.1%( annual fatalities uk 17k)
Yesterday the UK figures quoted suggested that because 55 had died the number infected countrywide was 55000.
a 1% mortality = 550 deaths
a 0.1% mortality = 55 deaths.
It is a given that an old population and a polluted environment will skew the rate upwards, as will be the case when numbers start to swamp the system.
Assuming 80% eventually get infected that is 56 million so s death toll on those optimistic mortality rates is still 1/2 million deaths.
still early days so all numbers quoted are highly quesstionable.
The great flu pandemic death toll varies depending upon source. 2.5% - 10% mortality are quoted. But antibiotics to deal with bacterial pneumonia were not in the tool box back then, neither were ventilators or today's more advanced medical techniques.
In the early stages mortality rates are inevitably high calculations.
This is no bad thing as it forces government to look into the abyss and plan accordingly. The measures being taken now would have caused revolution a month ago.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 01:34 AM

WHO Now Officially Recommends to Avoid Taking Ibuprofen For COVID-19 Symptoms

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 11:26 PM

This may have already been discussed here way back in the thread..

But an obvious consideration is:
how many of the increasing UK covid fatalities
would have died anyway this time of year,
if the pandemic hadn't finished them off a few days or weeks quicker...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 09:07 PM

Speaking of shameless exploitation of the corona crises, AMC is starting production of 'The Coughing Dead'.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 08:54 PM

Mossback, Steve did not write the brilliant dittie. Run it through Plagiarism.org

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 08:45 PM

We always used to use a Sears catalog in the out house. I suspect modern newspaper print might not be so good - different texture paper. But in a crisis it should do well enough. Lots of paper in a paper.
.........
Interesting to consider how many wartime slogans and terns fit the times. "Is your journey really necessary" , "Careless talk costs lives" (applicable to the fools of hateful micrcocephallic disttinction who malitiously pass on rumours about miracle cures and so forth they have come across on neo nazi websites), Then, the most appropriate term to use when talking about how long it will last is in the fullest of time".   "Make do and Mend", "Coughs and Sneezes Spread Diseases".   

And of course "Keep Calm and Carry On" - which never meant pretending there's nothing wrong, but don't panic and give up, control yourself and do whatever needs doing without fussing. Which is mediocre advice.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 08:25 PM

Trouble is, Kevin, I'm having increasing difficulty finding newspaper that has photos of Thatcher on...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 08:21 PM

We always used to use newspaper in the loo. I suspect modern newspaper might not be so good - different texture paper. But in a crisis it should do well enough. Lots of paper in a paper.
.........
Interesting to consider how many wartime slogans and terns fit the times. "Is your journey really necessary" , "Careless talk costs lives" (applicable to the fools who gaily pass on rumours about miracle cures and so forth they have come across online), Then, the most appropriate term to use when talking about how long it will last is ¿the duration".   "Make do and Mend", "Coughs and Sneezes Spread Diseases".   

And of course "Keep Calm and Carry On" - which never meant pretending there's nothing wrong, but don't panic and give up, control yourself and do whatever needs diing without fussing. Which is excellent advice.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:54 PM

there is talk that hydroxychloroquine ? can be helpful, especially when combined with an anti-HIV drug. Google it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:49 PM

It’s the Wurst Käse scenario.

BRILLIANT !

Ta, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:22 PM

In Germany everyone’s panic-buying sausages and cheese. It’s the Wurst Käse scenario.
And apparently Greece is running low of hummus and taramasalata, leading to fears of a double-dip recession.
Apparently French supermarkets look like a bomb site. The only thing left is de brie.
In Holland people have been stockpiling cheese. It’s like they don’t give Edam about anyone else.
And in a supermarket in Cardiff a sign reads 'Please shop responsibly and caerphilly'

I'll get me coat...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 05:04 PM

perhaps the most honest government ad I have ever seen: (2 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 04:56 PM

So the $ that hourly workers get from Trump is just enough to pay landlords but little else. For the 100 millon people who need to eat more money is needed. BUT if you refuse to pay rent you can have many grocery runs.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 04:26 PM

pfr, you've rumbled my little game!

I just went down to the nearest supermarket, stood in a long line which was getting longer by the minute, had a nice chat to the people around me, heard the rumour that the shop had no toilet paper, smiled at the two attending Police officers when I reached the door, showed my ID, asked the supermarket man at the door whether they had any toilet paper and he said there had been none delivered today, so I turned around and went back home.

Luckily it's only 10 minutes drive from my place and I have enough TP to last a couple of weeks maybe and I am hoping fervently that the panic buyers might have woken up to themselves by then.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 04:15 PM

Have they forgotten that many pensioners are still criminals,
or even just spiv black market sellers...???

How many times can organised gangs of grannies go back
to fill baskets up with essentials to sell on ebay...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 03:11 PM

In Australia a couple of major supermarket chains have introduced an hour a day for the elderly and for disabled people. It started yesterday. Eligible people need to show a relevant government-issued ID card, e.g. pension or Seniors card etc or disability card.

Good idea but they didn't think one thing through. The people with carers who help them with their shopping. The carers were not allowed in because they were not eligible.

At least one supermarket chain has acknowledged that their strategy needs some tweaking.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 03:05 PM

Mad as a box of frogs...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 03:00 PM

Can Trump ever make his mind up from one day to the next,
if he is good mates with China...???

It's like little kids in infant school...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 02:49 PM

Blaming foreigners? How about Trump and his "Chinese virus?"

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 02:29 PM

Merci beaucoup Mrrzy! Je n'ai pas encore eu d'autre nouvelles, mais depuis qu'elle soit assez jeune (29) on a un peu d'espoir qu'elle sera vite guérie, ('Inch Allah' comme mon époux Ibrahima dit!)
Ta poste m'a bcp levé le moral. Gros bisous Mrrzy!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 02:12 PM

Apologies Doug - I hadn't seen it before now and didn't check the date - I should have
I think the blaming of foreigners is on the cards as this problem continues; I didn't want it to b an issue here
I stand admonished
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 02:01 PM

I thought in needed nipping in the bud ...

The original comment was made on 1 March. Most people followed the recommended practice of not rising to the bait and letting it wither away of its own accord. Over two weeks later, you bring the subject to the fore - hardly nipping it in the bud. You must have known that the person who made the comment would react, so I can only assume that a fight is what you wanted.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 01:45 PM

Bonne guérison à ta nièce, Senoufou!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 01:43 PM

Have the UK army and other forces been so cut down
they no longer have fleets of trucks and other utility vehicles,
which could be co-ordinated for food deliveries, etc...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 01:19 PM

UK Gov graphs again shows a fall in the daily number. And it looks to be a false dawn, it is too low for the Gaussian expectation. It may show people are responding, which means a useful delay but will put the tail further out into the festival season. Good for the NHS. Medically. But longer pain. Early days.

Have a nice day...................

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 01:01 PM

Mr.Red 2 million dead is a walk in the park and a bus trip back compared to 400 million +.

100,000 is still better innit?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 12:48 PM

"Can a moderator please delete the tame idiots ramblings before he destroys yet another thread"
You are the one who chose to introduce refugees as a threat rather than the victims they are destined to be Iain's
I thought in needed nipping in the bud before that sort of thing took hold
Job done, I hope - lets's see
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 12:42 PM

vaccine being fast-track trialed in humans but up to 18 months from production.
It says

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 12:05 PM

2 Million deaths are more than the US deaths of the Civil War plus WWI WWII, plus Viet Nam . Don't forget Spanish 'flu killed 18-20 million (recorded). in 3 waves. I would bet that US + Europe + Australsia (say) would be about 400 million then. Throw in India (& Pakistan) and you get to the 2-3% death rate.

As for conscripting/volunteering van drivers - surely the drivers would do the picking at local supermarkets. Clever ones would know when the lorries arrive and be able to be there when the shelves are stocked. The real problem is bona fides, vetting the volunteers/conscripts when the service is needed yesterday!

PS I walked 5 miles to town (along the pretty canal) and the rain forced a bus trip back. Life in the COVID-19 era is complicated innit?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 12:03 PM

In 2 weeks hourly US employees should get a thousand dollar check from the government.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 11:47 AM

Those of us in the UK have genuine concerns about Johnson oversimplifying a serious social issue. it is too easy to say 'we should just adapt our lifestyles' but where adapting our lifestyles means that we are putting ourselves at risk by everyday activities like buying food because little has been put into place to help people to make these adaptations I find being accused of idiotic rambling offensive.

I have an online delivery arriving in 15 days, but I am lucky that I have enough food at home to get by in the meantime. If before then I want to get fresh milk or fresh food I have to put myself at risk - and although so far I do not have any symptoms because there is limited access to testing, for all I know I could be putting others at risk.

I am not playing party politics - whatever party is in power, we should be looking towards strong leadership rather than Johnson's populist babbling. We have a role in protecting ourselves and society as best we can. Society, in turn, has a role in protecting us as best it can.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 11:27 AM

When people are feeling helpless they lash out.
Facing reality is what this is about. That includes when people go a little crazy. Emotions will recover

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 11:21 AM

plotting the date/positive infections in a simple exel spreadsheet is showing a steady increase in the rate of infection in the UK.   1,950 were confirmed as positive today. 1543 yesterday.
and for those that wish a booking in the argument room, see below
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 11:18 AM

Nothing is final unless it is willed.
Its going to be tough. You will have to relearn how to queue.
We will have to relearn that how we treat the least of us is important to our health...
etc etc etc but true.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM

Rather then delete 2i's last post, and many more to come, no doubt, wouldn't it be easier just to show him the door.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 11:12 AM

Can a moderator please delete the tame idiots ramblings before he destroys yet another thread

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 11:09 AM

"I see Verhoftwat is worried that Erdogan has allowed numerous refugees to escape into Europe. Will this include Isis carrying the corona 19 virus?"
Humanity to the fore from the usual quarters, I see
Italy, the worst effected country to date, had 189,243.00, reported refugees in 2018, a 13.14% increase from 2017.
They are forced to live in cramped, unsanitary conditions, often with insufficient food and almost non existent medical care - a breeding ground for illnesses such as this
Perhaps Iains might suggest where he wished then to be sent, o perhaps he welcomes disasters like this as a 'final solution' to the refugee problem
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 09:34 AM

DMcG:
No need to apologise. It's not a problem of your making. Unless your employed in biological warfare ;)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 07:52 AM

There are reports that some of the mobile phone operators in the UK are having connectivity problems and I would imagine we will see similar effects on fixed lines. Moving firms to homeworking and video chats, and lots of people watching steaming videos from home while isolated is a completely different pattern of usage than these systems were designed for. It remains to be seen how well they will cope.

Sorry about that!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 07:37 AM

Controlling the numbers in a shop at one time helps with socials distancing, but how will this be maintained when people are queuing to get in? I can't really imagine people standing two metres apart along their high street. Maybe pre-booked time slots could help except for those who are digitally excluded.

Another issue - with supermarket shelves being stripped bare of non-perishable foods - this is going to put foodbanks in crisis.

It is all very well for Johnson to spout platitudes about what we should be doing as individuals - and I cannot disagree that we all have our role to play in personal responsibility - but I have absolutely nothing about mobilising public services and putting pressure on the private sector to make this possible. The response has to be cross-sectorial, and I am sure that charities are doing their best within their very limited means to help.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 07:22 AM

Lidl Ireland announced that it is prioritising older shoppers at stores nationwide from 9am until 11am every day from tomorrow morning. The initiative will be in place in all 163 stores nationwide until further notice. People will be able to avail of prioritised queuing and additional assistance during this time.
Tesco about to follow.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 07:17 AM

Good points SPB, Grocery stores are as important as they are dangerous.
Please take precutions and weigh the risks

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 07:11 AM

Other social impacts - people being laid off from work and living in private rented housing paying a rent more than the LHA. Unless they have adequate savings the could face eviction, so this is another area which needs primary legislation, or at least universal guaranteed income.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 07:03 AM

"Supermarkets could not have been expected to plan ahead for this sudden increase in demand for home deliveries. Hopefully things should settle down a bit once people have got their stockpile in."

The private sector, particularly the corporations that make billions out of retail have an equal responsibility to individuals and the government. They have the financial means of rapid response if they are prepared to take a dent in their profits/wealth.

The reality is that people who are isolated are effectively being advised not to eat if they don't have social/family networks they can depend on or their networks are also being advised to self isolate.

Sure local authorities can put resources into supporting the infrastructure, but are you personally prepared to make the decision about which individuals should forfeit their social care, or which at risk children should forfeit their protection to pay for this?@ It may have escaped your attention but local authorities have been forced to make sweeping cuts to their budgets over the last 10 years.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:55 AM

Crises has a definition of a course of a disease when a patient either lives or dies.
We are in a real crises

That is where we are NOW

(Depending upon how you behave)! and the risks you take The US will experience as low as 100,000 deaths or as many as 2 MILLION.

2 Million deaths are more than the total US deaths of the Civil War plus WWI WWII, plus Viet Nam .

I can not predict peoples behavior so I err on the side of people being stupid OR not heeding the January warning early enough..

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:55 AM

"If the UK government is prepared to make the resources available - maybe requisitioning private hire vans/drivers it can be done."

In theory yes but in practice it probably would not be that easy. The distribution centres are most likely already working near or at capacity. Not so easy to open up more distribution centres in a short space of time.

What would help is people trying to pool their orders. That would make a difference right away. I know that it is not that easy for everyone to do that but it is worth considering.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:46 AM

My poor poor sister has just told me her daughter who lives in Edinburgh is ill and coughing blood. She's only 29, so we're hoping she's strong enough to recover if it's Covid 19.
The girl is self-isolating (she lives alone, and has been 'working from home' for the past week)
Sister is now registered as an ITU-experienced doctor volunteer, and will turn up at Dundee Ninewells Hospital if/when required.
We're so worried, but what can one do?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:44 AM

If the UK government is prepared to make the resources available - maybe requisitioning private hire vans/drivers it can be done.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:44 AM

Crises } has a definition of a course of a disease when a patient either lives or dies.
We are in a real crises

That is where we are NOW

(Depending upon how you behave)! and the risks you take The US will experience as low as 100,000 deaths or as many as 2 MILLION.

2 Million deaths are more than the US deaths of the Civil War plus WWI WWII, plus Viet Nam .

I can not predict peoples behavior so I err on yje side of people being stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:39 AM

"emergency legislation to force supermarkets to reduce delivery times to no more than 2 days and waive delivery costs and minimum order sizes."

Seriously? You expect them to buy more vehicles, hire more staff to make even more deliveries than they are doing now?

The sensible suggestion would be for friends and neighbours to pool their order so that one delivery could be made for 2,3 or 4 etc households.

Supermarkets could not have been expected to plan ahead for this sudden increase in demand for home deliveries. Hopefully things should settle down a bit once people have got their stockpile in.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:32 AM

Watched the government advice, and decided to check out internet shopping. 15 days waiting list for delivery slots - with a £4 delivery charge and £40 minimum order size. Absolutely perfect for over 70s who are not used to monthly shopping"!!!!!! In store collection of pre-paid goods are the same.

So how are the government going to either force social distancing in supermarket queues? If vulnerable people have to go to convenience stores instead - how will government force them to price match so people on low incomes can still afford to shop? How do government plan to keep fresh food safe to eat?

There needs to be an immediate investment in home delivery capacity, possibly at least double maybe much more and emergency legislation to force supermarkets to reduce delivery times to no more than 2 days and waive delivery costs and minimum order sizes. For example there is a limit to what I can buy and keep fresh and if I have to spend £40 I need to buy stuff I don't need or be forced to bulk buy.

People on low incomes may be able to do this once or twice, but everyone gets to a stage where all that people need is to replenish stuff that runs out.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Mar 20 - 06:26 AM

France is somehow a very early site. - Ya know, I keep thinking back to the unusual cold I got (as others reported) at Gloucester Cajun Festival where there were several good dancing partners over from France.

We have evolved to see patterns, so maybe I should be looking at the things that don't correlate. But it makes me feel safer to think of the correlations. Do I have immunity? Was I a carrier for a week? The GF was on holiday at the time so I can't use her as a control.

Still, I will walk the 5 miles to town, and avoid the bus. It is a nice enough day. Not dancing, walk will be exercise. I may be some time...........................

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 09:26 PM

Nah, let's leave it to you.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 09:20 PM

here is italy. of course need many more data points. but again it seems traveled to netherlands and dropped down. one strain. other seems to have come from china, over ukraine and not belarus. but somehow malaysia is involved. any (intelligent, educated) thoughts?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 09:06 PM

https://nextstrain.org/ncov?f_location=Delft,Haarlem,Nieuwendijk,Nootdorp,Rotterdam ( think these towns are in netherlands but I could be wrong..)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 08:59 PM

https://nextstrain.org/ncov?f_location=Kirkland,Pierce%20County,Seattle

https://nextstrain.org/ncov?f_location=Kirkland,Pierce%20County,Seattle

would love for an epidemiologist to look at this and tell me what they see. I have watched the graphic several times. It looks to me like it came from france heading west and from east via china to germany and back again? heading west. Could this be right? It does not appear to have come straight from China. France is somehow a very early site. Also look at maps of Netherlands. Interesting. Also Australia...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 08:13 PM

check out this if you haven't already. you can sort by location. it keeps looking to me like france was so at the beginning. https://nextstrain.org/ncov https://nextstrain.org/ncov

it also looks (to me) like italy got it perhaps from france and not directly from china. it is extremely informative if you watch it on a timeline. iran figures apparently not available.   

kirkland is where most of the washington nursing home deaths occurred. that needs to be studied and studied and i am sure the university of washington is on it. the numbers of not just infected (and now many dead) residents are shocking..but what is more shocking is the numbers of staff, who are not even tested yet as far as I know. some hospitals at capacity in Seattle area. which is not the problem..i personally could sleep on a smelly army cot in an ice rink..but ventilators are a problem. Dyson is said to be turning to manufacturing them...or perhaps they were just asked.

A country can not turn loose of its manufacturing ability or its agricultural land or its water. And a country that can not get many many thousands of masks and hospital gowns made quickly, assuming supplies were available, is in serious need of realignment.

I would love to again from statisticians about everything, especially about the nextstrain charts.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:23 PM

Yeah, Donuel, I get it ...

as in:
where were you when the lights went out ...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:09 PM

Expect to see a spike in the number of births in 10 months.

Trump rallies; gee I would hate to see those neo nazis Darwin themselves out of existence. :^]

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 05:59 PM

How is Twit going to survive without his redneck love-fest rallies, that is assuming he cancels them.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 05:58 PM

The role of teachers is to keep kids out of the way so that grown-ups can do stuff untrammelled by brats. Naturally, this philosophy applies just to state schools, not public schools. The latter are there to provide the next generation's ruling class. Ask any Tory politician.

We have a terrible shortage of doctors, nurses and care workers, driven by ten years of Toryism. If any of those workers had to stay home to look after children, the NHS would collapse. There is no wriggle room, either in terms of staff, A&E or hospital beds, for a crisis. And there should be. But Tories don't think that way. They can pay the state-educated doctors to let them jump the queue, so why would they?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 05:58 PM

WASHINGTON March 16, 2020 — Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, is holding up the House-passed coronavirus relief bill and preventing it from being delivered to the Senate for a vote.

He's probably also recommending that poor folks without computers or internet access (see "Cancellation" thread) use their "Obamaphones" to continue their primary, secondary and university level studies during the current shut downs and quarantines or use "public computers" at all of the public places that have been shut down as well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 05:53 PM

Today in a bored voice Trump came a little closer to reality when he said "The virus will probably be among us until July-August", then it will be flu season again

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 05:39 PM

Mossback did not display even a hint of bigotry. Either you knew that, Helen, and were trolling, or you have a lot to learn about the subtleties of expression in our language. Why not have a little word in the shell-like of your friend mg instead? Or did you miss that post of hers?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 05:38 PM

Like Woody Allen, Mossback is a bigot, but for the left.

In Italy health care workers are exhausted, cremation workers are overheated, the over sexed are horny, bad/no haircuts abound and toothaches are cured via 'Cast Away' means. They only have 2000 reported deaths.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 05:30 PM

Australian National Folk Festival is cancelled. I just saw it mentioned on the ABC News site.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 04:56 PM

A way for airlines and other travel companies to (just) survive may be to simply allow free changes to flight times, etc., which I know Emirates are about to do as I have just received an email; that way some money comes in/less staff will have to be laid off.

That said, I'd nationalise all airlines and do away with capitalism altogether - replacing it with something like this "Global Regulationism"

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 04:23 PM

Nigel - you should know my sense of humour regarding tory motives by now...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 03:55 PM

Funny video! Or maybe not!

Posted by Iains 16 Mar 20 - 08:51 AM

pfr, the Australian government is in two minds (nothing unusual) about shutting schools. One good reason to keep the pupils in school is that otherwise they will be hanging out at the shopping malls infecting the wider population. At least if they are sitting in classrooms with an adult supervising them the contagion might possibly be held back for a while.

Hubby works at a high school as an IT coordinator. I have the same fears about him bringing home the problem. He told me that his school will shut two weeks earlier for the Easter term break, making it a four week shutdown.

Not an easy problem to solve.

Mossback, you are a bigot. Why assume that the people who go to ski resorts are only French or Italian?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 03:31 PM

In my dismayed opinion,
REFUSAL to shut UK schools, keeping them open for up to three weeks until the Easter holiday
is deliberately treating teachers and school staff as expendable..
For a different view, it also continues mixing people (schoolchildren) with those they already mix with, rather than releasing them from those confines and allowing them to mix more widely.
Which is the correct line to take, I don't know. But whichever the government chooses I would not attribute dishonourable motives.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 12:41 PM

Having been warned back in early January we are moderately prepared.
In many ways these are the good ol days with fresh citrus, varied food stores, medicine and entertainment. However health insurance does not allow stocking insulin in a national emergency so next week in this avaricious climate I will have to go on an insulin hunt. I will rely on the kindness of strangers as always.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 11:23 AM

There is an issue with scofflaws who are out and about. State Troopers have new orders to deal with them. There is alot more homeless than surfers before a hurricane.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM

MD govenor Hogan has made 5 PM the LAST CALL for all bars and sit down restaurants. Also landlords may not evict anyone for the duration.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 11:08 AM

actually my graph is still not the right picture. The Gov figures & graphs similarly are listing the totals to date. What is needed for analysis is total suffering at the moment because that demonstrates the chances you will meet someone infectious. Allowing for those that don't show appreciable symptoms, but still infectious, you could double any number. But at a rough try 2000 germ carriers in a population of 66 million is not bad, until you factor in full commuter buses and trains. Hence the work at home advice. I have tried taking into account 14 days infectiousness, but the larger numbers are all in that timeframe, and smaller numbers won't give a good picture either.

My advice, in this context (trust me), is never trust a fart, and don't sit on a loose stool.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 10:50 AM

Or I can make her strip off and swab her self with bleach, and burn her clothes
outside the front door...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 10:49 AM

....french infestation involving a ski resort..and italy very infectious ski resorts.... people wiping noses on ski gloves and then leaving them on restaurant tables etc.

Yah, that's just the sort of thing those filthy Frogs and Dagoes would do, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 10:40 AM

PFR I predict closure will occur very shortly, it was only a couple of days ago Ireland closed schools and Colleges and shock horror, not a case of no beer in the pubs, but locked doors!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 10:25 AM

In my dismayed opinion,
REFUSAL to shut UK schools, keeping them open for up to three weeks until the Easter holiday
is deliberately treating teachers and school staff as expendable..

Maybe it's a ruse to eliminate older higher salaried teachers...???

Maybe it's a vindictive hostile ideological attack intentionally punishing the teaching profession,
who far right govt allied influencers accuse of being too leftist...???

Whatever, It doesn't matter how cautious I am outside in town,
I'm resigned to my wife's school being my most likely source for me to get infected..

She's always been bringing home coughs and colds...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 09:17 AM

Fear doesn't seem to be rampant in this area, the folks I know are just being cautious and sharing info but I've got to say that Jared as the COVID 19 czar is fear-inducing, look for an outbreak of profiteering by the Twitler clan.
As far as the crime rate going up or down I see sales on guns and ammo have spiked so you better leave people's T.P. alone.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 09:08 AM

We all know that Covid 19 is only one of TWO immediate contagions.
The other is fear.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 09:02 AM

Its easy and psychologically normal to go negative. It is even harder to be positive now that I know that Jared Kushner is now also in charge of a federal response to the corona virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 08:53 AM

Very good representation of how different scenarios affect the spread here. Strict social isolation seems to be the best way.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 08:51 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNsTndy9CZo

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 08:42 AM

How long before those silver linings begin to fade? Not long, I will guess.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 08:38 AM

I am wondering if crime will go down..or up?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 08:13 AM

~third day of isolation. The more people who do this the better. Not everyone can. [health care workers| Breaking the exponential transmission to less than one is the goal. Its like pandamonium vs pandemic.
Stop, duck and cover comes to mind.

SILVER LININGS:

LESS POLLUTION
MORE ART PRODUCTION
HOAX ADVOCATES FADE
STRONGER FRIENDS & FAMILY

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 07:03 AM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:28 AM

After a lifetime obtaining, collating and interpreting data I guess I can read more into the situation than you.
I doubt you will be crowing by mid April.
I would like to be proved wrong but I think it most unikely. Unprecedented measures being taken worldwide would tend to suggest desperate times.
Maybe you copious prosecco consumption will give immunity, or simply projects you to cloud cuckoo land. Bon Voyage!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:32 AM

Based on age demographic, how much longer will the House of Lords be able to continue sitting?
House of Lords demographics

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:28 AM

"My dry cold and loose stools..."

At least they're dry and not sloppy-loose. You're shitting shards, mate...But why are they cold? Have you been sitting on stone walls?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 06:14 AM

@Mr Red. Thanks for that graph. As you say, early days! By the end of April it will be a vastly changed world. With the asymptomatic carriers all   impersonating typhoid Mary the spread will be inexorable. A shortage of bogrolls is a harbinger of a drastically altered reality that people are very slow to wake up to. We are either being fed a line(unlikely) or governments are quietly shitting themselves. Conservatively the numbers are doubling every 4 daysin the UK. If front line care workers follow anything closely resembling the wider population we are in a world of hurt within a couple of weeks.
Several weeks ago the UK government suggested that at its peak 6.5million of the workforce would be ill. For the sake of argument double it for the entire population 13 million. If the projected 20% need to be hospitalised that is 2.6 million at peak. No health service can cope with those figures. Hardly surprising the projections are not headlined!
But the usual caveats apply. Just like climate change graphs, the above is based on projections. As is the crude mortality rate of 3+%.
Most say that allowing for skewed testing and collation figures 1% is a more realistic projection. But like anything else you have to work with the data you have. Absolute accuracy can only happen after the event and even that is very questionable. But it is a sobering thought that it is approximately ten times more lethal than flu that kills roughly 17000 per year. Obviously at the time of peak infection the mortality rate will rocket due to demand outstripping supply. The arguments as to who is entitled to what in the way of care is discussed at length both by UK gov and the wider world for those that wish to look rather thamn nitpick. Below is a starter for 10!

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/03/09/covid-19-triage-in-a-pandemic-is-even-thornier-than-you-might-think/
(The comments include my meagre contribution)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 05:08 AM

Government graphs over a longer timeframe and it will hopefully updates as and when.
which show the same trend, and tell me that my dry cold and loose stools** (you didn't want to know, tough!) are consistent with the symptoms/timescale. Early adopter, maybe.

**cornflour and water helps, I chose Pomegranate juice & custard powder, much more palletable. Arrowroot didn't help. 'Scuse rushed typing, gotta dash (never trust a fart!).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 04:13 AM

Every picture tells a story and tells it better than Iains list of numbers, but this is based on those numbers.

a chart of the progression of COVID-19 in the UK (opens in new tab/window)

Those who want to carp and denigrate the efforts to explain should not look at it.

But what it tells me is that it hasn't reached the peak yet. The Gaussian bell curve is not even half way. Imprecise assessment, but the trend is obvious. To an engineer anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 03:00 AM

Some very hard criticism here of the initial response of the US to Coronavirus.

In case anyone decides to employ the tactic of attempting to devalue the piece by denigrating the qualifications of interviewee, here are his credentials.

Reading it, I wonder how our own UK government’s efforts to handle the epidemic will be viewed by independent medical experts. We have a very long way to go, this is just the start...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 01:59 AM

check out this website https://nextstrain.org/ncov or follow @nextstrain on twitter. absolutely fascinating graphics of where different strains developed and traveled to. it looks, and don't take my word for it, that it went from china to Kazakhstan to belarus and into europe and approached washington state from that direction, as well as directly from china. many places seem to have multiple strains from different places. obvious travel has quite a lot to do with it. in the very original screen, where it start t==[ to show china, it also shows a spot in france. i know there was a very early french infestation involving a ski resort..and italy very infectious ski resorts and i think colorado. saw an article talking about people wiping noses on ski gloves and then leaving them on restaurant tables etc.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 09:19 PM

Why is it always guardian versus guido with you...???

It isn't. I quote both when the factual content suits. It is a mudcat mod that has an issue by deleting most items by guido. Presumably egged on by a certain person. Having a fixation on the man rather than his news is totally inexplicable. As I have said many times whatever he posts can be checked if it is factual and the bulk of his material is factual. If it was not it would not be read by so many MPs.

Donuel surely the growth is exponential looking at most of the graphs below. With the exception ofchina and north korea.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus


Prof Chris Whitty, whose boots you are not fit to lick, would shit on your head, Iains, if he wasn't such a nice bloke. Which he is, unlike you, so you're safe. Unfortunately.

I wonder how many rules of posting on mudcat you broke with that post?
will you be chastised I ask myself? will it even be deleted?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:54 PM

Prof Chris Whitty, whose boots you are not fit to lick, would shit on your head, Iains, if he wasn't such a nice bloke. Which he is, unlike you, so you're safe. Unfortunately.

Nah then, pfr, I am totally cash-poor in spite of the fact that I accidentally cashed in on at least three house-price booms in the seventies and eighties. I own my house but I have to live in it. I have a bad back and half my teeth are missing, and I'm not totally sure about my prostate, and I'm seeing my doc next week about my bloody rotten shoulder, and I have multiple family issues, not least my 91-y-o mum who is now in lockdown. So, if it's OK with you, I'd prefer it if you didn't describe me as "rich..."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:48 PM

Why is it always guardian versus guido with you...???

I don't read either..

The guardian because it is too middle class and boring,
guido because it is ruling class and shit...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:40 PM

Is the Guardian scaremongering or scary?

The coronavirus epidemic in the UK will last until next spring and could lead to 7.9 million people being hospitalised, a secret Public Health England (PHE) briefing for senior NHS officials reveals.

The document, seen by the Guardian, is the first time health chiefs tackling the virus have admitted that they expect it to circulate for another 12 months and lead to huge extra strain on an already overstretched NHS.

It also suggests that health chiefs are braced for as many as 80% of Britons becoming infected with the coronavirus over that time.

Prof Chris Whitty, the government’s chief medical adviser, has previously described that figure as the worst-case scenario and suggested that the real number would turn out to be less than that. However, the briefing makes clear that four in five of the population “are expected” to contract the virus.

The document says that: “As many as 80% of the population are expected to be infected with Covid-19 in the next 12 months, and up to 15% (7.9 million people) may require hospitalisation.”


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised
If guido said it it would be deleted(like the many factual video clips posted earlier)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:34 PM

Steve - It's encouraging to know that despite your political beliefs,
you are rich enough for the tories to consider saving,
if it's a toss up who get's an ambulance and ventilator...

I however am a bolshy lefty who owns not much more than eff all,
so will probably be left for dead...

For what any of this matters to this thread...??

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:29 PM

Logarithmic increase is closer to the truth than exponential growth

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:24 PM

Funk polka rocker
You are on a roll and make a good sandwhich.
But can you catch the virus from pizza?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:20 PM

are there any statisticians or mathematicians here? I am trying to remember the meaning of exponential growth. I have googled it and yes, there is of course an equation. I was mixing it with logarithmic growth..   I was thinking if it is a constant rate, like it goes up 4% a day, that would be a linear growth. Even if it is by 50% a day. If it went up 4% one day, 16% next, squared or by a constant rate of increase..that would be exponential. I know it does not mean lots and lots and lots of growth in vague terms and no mathematics..i took graduate statistics years, nay decades ago..so I would like to see this discussed by people who know..

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:20 PM

"yeah but.. moderate and conservative mudcatters can counter that with "ultra-left-wing Steve"..."

Yeah, they could, but I live in a half-million quid country house that I own outright, with a half-acre garden in one of the most beautiful coastal locations in these islands, and I'm most decidedly not hard up... Let me assure you that my leftie credentials, which are still exceptionally the real McCoy (Blair Peach was my best mate...look him up...), are still sound. Damn any bastard who would characterise me otherwise. And I bloody mean it. Try me.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:14 PM

2 = "

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:13 PM

"I learned that restaurants in Ohio may stay open only for delivery.
But things are fluid...2..

what.. liquid meals fed by drip...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:10 PM

Btw.. my mrs had a go at me today for being too cynical about boris, dom, and worst tory govt possibly ever's
plausible true agenda and intentions,
in opportunistically exploiting this health crisis for their own advantage...

re - culling the expensive burdensome weak and old,
who aren't rich enough to care about saving...

She can't allow herself to believe even this govt could be that callous and inhumane...???

My wife is too innocent and trusting in human nature...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:05 PM

This is where some would rather argue than inform or observe.
There is a time to be whimsical and a time to die.
We can only hope that Steve will not attend your/our funeral, as it might become embarrassing for all. I see his posts as a comma in the thread of life. Sorry I had to resort to the truth Steve, but you are still funny. :^/

I learned that restaurants in Ohio may stay open only for delivery.
But things are fluid...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:03 PM

yeah but.. moderate and conservative mudcatters can counter that with "ultra-left-wing Steve"...

so carrying over that crusade into this thread aint really achieving much that's positive and constructive for us...???


.. innit...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:56 PM

Anyway, Helen aside, back to the substantive (as we used to say). It's amazing how quickly events are unfolding, and how the Boris government is seen to be behind the pace. I think that the proposal about over-seventies being obliged to stay at home is a step too far. That's more about covering up the Tory-led deficiencies of the NHS than it is about protecting old folk. The thing is, day by day events are overtaking us. I can't go to see my mum in her care home any more, as of yesterday (I've already written her a long letter). I can't ring her as she is profoundly deaf. Damn.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:52 PM

Some COD Science for the resident pedant.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:41 PM

Oh, hello, Helen! You really haven't a clue as to what's going on in this thread, or about ultra-right-wing Iains, have you? The grudge that keeps on giving, Helen? Do you actually realise that you're throwing your lot in with a bloke who supports the alt-right?    Bejaysus, you're so transparent, so naive! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:27 PM

Well Steve, some of us don't really give a flying flock what you think. You don't have to read the figures. You don't have to read this thread. You don't have to post. But I guess you need something to whinge about.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:07 PM

It's not that we don't like the way the figures are itemised and presented. It's all very nice. It's that we really don't give a rat's arris for the tedious and repetitive way you're presenting them, as though you were somehow the gubernatorial voice, which we all know you're not. I mean, we can all read the (decent) papers. You're a bit weird, aren't you.   And I have tried to tell you how everything is meaningless bar the death figures. Still, don't let us stop you. Bejaysus, John, I've spoken to him. Pardon my slip! :-) Mea maxima friggin' culpa!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 06:49 PM

I always prefer to go to the original sources sources for my data, As I have said previously the figures are obtained by the government at 0900 and published at 1400 For those that do not like the way the figures are itemised and presented I suggest you take the issue up with Gov UK Public Health. At the base of their web page is the following:

Is this page useful?
Yes this page is useful No this page is not useful
Is there anything wrong with this page?
I always endeavour to post accurate data and unlike some I usually offer links.

The official government figures below clearly show the escalation and the staged government response.and can be correlated with date, numbers infected and deaths. These are raw figures and   the rationale behind the testing regime is in the link below, but inevitably it has an element of hit and miss. Howvever it has captured the basics of the severity and spread. It gives a crude mortality of about 2.5% but that is only of those tested and positive. Acute bed occupancy is quoted as averaging 90%. This leaves little slack for a sudden epidemic. There is a vector of the asymptomatic that can only be modelled with unknown accuracy and they play no part in the crude mortality ststistics, but they pose an obvious danger to those most at risk. ie the70+(like myself) asthmatics, diabetics etc etc.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-initial-investigation-of-possible-cases/investigation-and-initial-clinical-management-of-possible-cases-of-wuhan-novel-coronavirus-wn-cov-infection#interim-definition-possible-cases
(the above will not link)
Official source   
GOV.UK
Guidance
Number of coronavirus (COVID-19) cases and risk in the UK

Date          + Test    Deaths   Total tests
1                 23            0        
2                 40            0        
3                 51            0        13911
4                 85            0        16574
5                 115          0        17968
6                 161          1        20338
7                 206           2        21460
8                 273           2        22513
9                 319           3        24950
10               373           6        26261
11               456           6        27476
12               590           8        29764
13               798           10        32771
14               1140        21        37746
15               1372        35        40279

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 05:42 PM

A very different, positive view of this pandemic...

LOCKDOWN

Yes there is fear.
Yes there is isolation.
Yes there is panic buying.
Yes there is sickness.
Yes there is even death.

But,

They say that in Wuhan after so many years of noise
You can hear the birds again.

They say that after just a few weeks of quiet
The sky is no longer thick with fumes
But blue and grey and clear.

They say that in the streets of Assisi
People are singing to each other
across the empty squares,
keeping their windows open
so that those who are alone
may hear the sounds of family around them.

They say that a hotel in the West of Ireland
Is offering free meals and delivery to the housebound.

Today a young woman I know
is busy spreading fliers with her number
through the neighbourhood
So that the elders may have someone to call on.

Today Churches, Synagogues, Mosques and Temples
are preparing to welcome
and shelter the homeless, the sick, the weary

All over the world people are slowing down and reflecting
All over the world people are looking at their neighbours in a new way

All over the world people are waking up to a new reality
To how big we really are.
To how little control we really have.
To what really matters.
To Love.

So we pray and we remember that
Yes there is fear.
But there does not have to be hate.

Yes there is isolation.
But there does not have to be loneliness.

Yes there is panic buying.
But there does not have to be meanness.

Yes there is sickness.
But there does not have to be disease of the soul

Yes there is even death.
But there can always be a rebirth of love.

Wake to the choices you make as to how to live now.
Today, breathe.
Listen, behind the factory noises of your panic

The birds are singing again
The sky is clearing,
Spring is coming,
And we are always encompassed by Love.

Open the windows of your soul
And though you may not be able
to touch across the empty square,
Sing.

- written by Fr. Richard Hendrick, OFM
March 13th 2020

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 04:28 PM

UK tries a unique but old cure https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 02:56 PM

well.. if all this doesn't make folks decisively quit smoking and vaping for good..

.. or are they panic bulk buying fags and vape fluid to last weeks of self isolation...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 12:58 PM

Mrs Steve and I are both under 70, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 12:58 PM

I still think "confirmed negative" testing is a waste of time and finite resources..*

Most of 'em will probably catch it sooner than later...

Test folks while obviously ill - to confirm diagnosis;
then again after they recover, to prove they are fit to return to work...

[*Unless cure researchers are hoping to find folks with a magic immunity to the virus...???]...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM

And about 66 million haven't been tested, and even if you're at home with a mild or moderate illness you are not GOING to be tested. The likelihood is that the number of infections is far higher than the positive tests suggest, and that we'll never know the true extent of that number. The only useful figure is the total number of deaths caused by the virus and the rate of change of that number. That is at least a partly useful number for comparing us with what's happening in other countries, though numerous other factors also need to be considered to do with demographics, age profiles, living conditions, quality of reporting and the condition of the medical services. Extrapolating data to come up with "death rate" numbers under these circumstances is pointless and downright unscientific. Comment is free but facts are sacred.

I worry that thousands of people who have mild or moderate symptoms, which we're told will be the case for most victims, will either not associate their symptoms with this disease or will keep it to themselves in order to avoid long lockdowns in their lives. The government in this country, helped in no small part by sensational tabloid headlines, has engendered a climate of fear among elderly people by apparently proposing that over-70s should be put under what amounts to house arrest for months on end. I hope that won't happen, and there's little doubt that the interests of the elderly are coming a poor second to the political need to sweep the devastation meted out by ten years of Toryism to our NHS under the carpet, which would become all too clear if many elderly patients were ill. Seems to me that that's going to happen anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 12:54 PM

Considerably more useful than simply quoting numbers is this piece from an anonymous source which has been shared by a number of my contacts. Good advice based on personal experience, and I have no reason to question its authenticity...

” Hello all, I am writing to you from my fourth day in coronavirus quarantine, here in Barcelona, Spain. This is a message to everyone- family, friends, former colleagues, peers and teammates back home (or wherever you are in the world). Please take this virus seriously. I want to share with you what is happening here now, what the consequences are of a delayed response. I hope this will help you to understand that all jokes and toilet paper memes aside, your action needs to be taken now.

A week ago here in Spain, we only talked about coronavirus. We already had some cases, but it just didn’t seem that bad. We saw the suffering in Italy and said “That won’t happen here.” Changes were not made. People still went out on the weekend, went to the gym, went to work, to school, etc. Preventing the spread of the virus was not a priority. Fast forward just 1 WEEK: Spain is now in a state of emergency. The virus is here and it is tearing through this country. I have coronavirus. My friends have coronavirus. Parents of children have coronavirus. Teachers, students, business people, researchers, politicians, bus drivers, etc. have coronavirus. In a matter of days, the number of confirmed cases spiked from just a few hundred to well into the thousands. Hospitals and medical clinics are completely and entirely exhausted, operating at over-capacity, with quickly depleting resources and staff. Hundreds of doctors, nurses and other medical personnel have caught the virus and have been issued to quarantine. Those who remain are working 24/7, non stop. It is not just the elderly or the immunocompromised who are checking in for treatment- people of ALL ages are needing medical care. With each passing day, the death toll rises and the situation grows more severe.

In just 1 WEEK the coronavirus has caused Spain to crumble and it appears the worst has yet to come. Now having one of the fastest rates of COVID-19 contagion in the entire world, the Spanish Prime Minister stated that the number of cases could top 10,000 by early next week- almost double the current level. Just yesterday, cases rose by 1,500. If the pressure on the health care system is already unbearable, then what could possibly happen in the following days? We could ask our dear friends in Italy, as they are about a week ahead of us, with thousands of infected people trying to get into hospitals with only a few spaces left. With doctors and nurses having to CHOOSE who to save and who to let die because there are not enough medical professionals, supplies or space left to treat the growing number of patients. The Spanish government can see we are following in Italy’s footsteps and the pressure is on, to make up for a lack of action taken in the beginning.

All schools and universities have shut down. Public events and sports games have been cancelled. Roads have been blocked, entire regions of the country are under lockdown and towns and villages have been quarantined. Businesses, cafes, restaurants, gyms, bars/cubs and shopping centres have all closed, with the exception of the supermarkets selling food and pharmacies. Police roam the streets to ensure people stay inside. The rest of the world can see the risk now too- 62 countries have suspended flights from Spain.

To think, if preventative action could have been taken just 1 week before, if the mindsets of people could have shifted 1 week earlier, we could be living a very different reality right now.

To all the people back home in Canada or wherever you may be, please understand that this virus will change things very quickly. Once it becomes an issue, it is very hard to control. Being proactive and taking precautions now is absolutely necessary; every day counts! Be diligent with your health practices and be responsible with your decision making to be out in public!!! Going to the bar, the mall, the movies, the gym, etc. is truly just not worth it right now!!! Save it for a week that isn’t potentially life threatening to you or the humans around you. Push for work weeks at home and online classes!! Nothing is worth the risk. Social distancing is CRITICAL. And if you are sitting there feeling like you don’t have to be cautious because you are young/healthy, PLEASE remember that we as human beings have a responsibility to look out for one another. You being careless could lead to the loss of someone’s grandmother or grandfather, someone's parent, someone’s coworker, or someone’s friend. That is what is happening here and it’s a lot more difficult to stop now that it’s started.

I hope you take something away from this going forward. Stay home and be cautious. Start today if you haven’t already. You will make a difference!!! Please stay safe everyone. “

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:59 AM

As of 9am on 15 March 2020, 40,279 people have been tested in the UK, of which 38,907 were confirmed negative and 1,372 were confirmed as positive. 35 patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:55 AM

From here on in, stats on numbers of infected people are useless. Now excuse me as I'm off to panic buy five bananas.
However the experts say:
In 2009, we saw that our previous reporting systems were not dependable; they relied on patients presenting to physicians, which is influenced by public alarm among other factors. Initial case fatality rates for H1N1 differed by up to 50-fold . Conversely, ICU admission criteria are relatively fixed over time. Cases and deaths can be easily tracked, making ICUs ideal places for surveillance of severe pandemic influenza. To use this strategy, it will be important that intensivists understand the size of their catchment (or referral) area so that they can accurately estimate the local incidence. The creation of early warning systems was one of the main goals of the International Forum for Acute Care Trialists (InFACT) and ongoing efforts such as the SPRINT SARI study
https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-019-2616-1
An interesting article although the implications for where we are now are "thought provoking"..

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:55 AM

If a test can identify who had the virus, has recovered, is no longer infectious, and is immune..

Then that is the only test result that really matters for getting key personnel and volunteers back to work
helping others...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:33 AM

Therefore it's pointless to keep posting about the number tested.

Well it interests me, (and I trust the figures when they echo the BBC) but if I had to be pedantic it is pointless stating all three numbers, total, negative then positive.

Seeing the figures makes me mentally compare with, say, US, France and Italy to see where we are heading. And how we are doing by comparison.

EG do I drive or risk the bus. Annnnnnnnnnnnnd.........
Was my strange cold following Gloucester Cajun festival late January (as others also reported) the unseen onset? Strangely I hope so, it means I have a measure of immunity.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:01 AM

Oh well done Monique! Thank you so much - you are clever!

Sister also told me the Government is thinking of forcing all those over 70 to isolate themselves in quarantine at home! Gulp!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Monique
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 10:47 AM

Here you are, Eliza!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 10:35 AM

The Republican Senate response to the House Covid 19 bill is to add some ammendments and subtract care for the public

Add : splitting witheld payroll taxes between employer and employees.
Payroll taxes normally pay for social security and Medicare/

Anyone who blames Donald Trump for the invading foriegn virus will be charged with sedition.

Remove : provisions of expanding social security and medicare

A quagmire is assured.


There are still some Republicans who claim the virus is a hoax devised by US democrats.
HOWEVER
A Herd mentality, immunity and insanity also sweeps the UK

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 10:26 AM

That link doesn't pull up the article, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 10:15 AM

The one and only UK approach of 'herd immunity' can be sped up by applying an infected fecal matter&snot cocktail beneath thier nose on thier stiff uppr lip. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-going-to-be-daunting-uk-considers-opposite-approach-to-the-uss-by-allowing-more-people-to-

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 10:10 AM

My sister just sent me a very funny song which is on Youtube. (I can't do those blue clicky things) It's by Sam Chaplin, and it's called 'Covid 19'. It's a spoof on 'Come on Eileen', and it really made me laugh.
Can someone a bit more techie do a blue clicky for me?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:42 AM

The only people now being tested in this country are people in hospital. From here on in, stats on numbers of infected people are useless. Now excuse me as I'm off to panic buy five bananas.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 06:19 PM

If you are immunosuppresent drugs, CDC says sit tight for now and don't change things until notified.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 05:14 PM

Things are beginning to look serious... the latest from Peston on ITN News.

Looks like there might be quite a few of us here with time on our hands pretty soon....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 04:10 PM

People with mild symptoms who self-isolate are not being tested. Many will have the virus. Therefore it's pointless to keep posting about the number tested. Cheers.

Funny the uk government sees fit to update numbers at 2pm daily.
Is it simply a myth that the world is turning upside down because of a declared pandemic and is reacting to what an exteacher regards as pointless numbers? Those that are asymptomatic or suffering mildly   cannot be quantified, but in terms of treatment are unimportant. The rate of increase of hospitalisations, the numbers requiring acute care and the mortality rate are the vital numbers for maximising the use of resources and driving planning measures to attempt to control the rate of increase.
Perhaps our keyboard warrior feels he should be in charge. No doubt he would use a Ouija board as a planning tool as hard data is "pointless."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 02:30 PM

Not a single case here in Norfolk so far. But in Tesco and Morrisons this morning, entire shelves were empty of rice, toilet rolls and any sort of cleaning fluid/disinfectant. We weren't looking for those things anyway, but the check-out lady said the shop had been going like a fair all week, with trolleys piled high with 'prepping' goods.
Mad.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 12:08 PM

People with mild symptoms who self-isolate are not being tested. Many will have the virus. Therefore it's pointless to keep posting about the number tested. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 11:47 AM

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/world/gallery/coronavirus-empty-spaces/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 10:32 AM

As of 9am on 14 March 2020, 37,746 people have been tested in the UK, of which 36,606 were confirmed negative and 1,140 were confirmed as positive. 21 patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

For those of a conspiracy bent:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-covid-19-made-in-china-or-made-in-america/5706272

Interestingly Graham Vanbergen, mentioned as a serious journalist on the uk politics thread, is a frequent contributor to GlobalResearch.
Just sayin like.
As an aside, the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, in Fort Detrick, Md. was closed back in August.
Safety concerns have led the government to shut down research involving dangerous microbes like the Ebola virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 10:30 AM

Two weeks ago President Shitbird was declaring it a Democratic Hoax, even while it was raging in other parts of the world and instead of organizing a response to it he has been mostly spreading misinformation about it before and since. His main concern in this regard is his reelection, which is his "stay" out of jail free card. He is behaving the exact opposite of the way of a president should in time of crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 10:15 AM

"The virus will not have a chance against us" (Donald Trump)...why did so many vote for him?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:55 AM

BEWARE OF VIRUS CLICKBAIT emails/sites
You could get a virus/malware.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 06:38 AM

I've just had a thought. Apologies if it has been mooted before in this thread/parish But...............

How about all those who have had COVD-19 and have long (enough) survived to be (tested &) conscripted to do necessary jobs in quarantined areas?

A sort of GetUback initiative. Restart society & the economy.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 08:22 PM

The last US sport standing (with special Presidental exception) is
the UFC.
There are No CNN hoax wimps in the UFC https://www.ticketmaster.com/ultimate-fighting-championship-ufc-tickets/artist/806762

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 11:08 AM

The 2 types of Corona indicate a recent mutation
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/04/coronavirus-chinese-scientists-identify-two-types-covid-19.html

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 10:46 AM

As of 9am on 13 March 2020, 32,771 people have been tested in the UK, of which 31,973 were confirmed negative and 798 were confirmed as positive. 10 patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 08:05 AM

In case anyone hasn't seen it here is the CDC on preventing the spread of the virus-

click

and this is what they say regarding hand cleaning-

Clean your hands often

Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, especially after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing; going to the bathroom; and before eating or preparing food. If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol, covering all surfaces of your hands and rubbing them together until they feel dry.

Soap and water are the best option if hands are visibly dirty. Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth with unwashed hands.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 06:59 AM

Burial pits for Covid 19 victims in Iran are so large they are seen frum space.
It is clear to see prayer has not worked.

perhaps it is working.

World wars often take the lives of our young men.
Finally the old men who ordered attacks will be on the front lines.
Sorry about the collateral damage to the women.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 06:35 AM

The paucity came from the top. Trump ordered HLS to slow the testing because it would only raise the numbers he wanted tp haee to show his victory over the walled off virus. The time to fight over this will come.
WE ARE SHUT DOWN, SCHOOLS ARE SHUT DOWN AND TELEWORK BEGINS monday

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 05:39 AM

My sis is a brilliant bridge player, and gives master classes several times a week, in addition to playing in tournaments etc. She's quite worried about the virus being transferred onto the playing cards.
A smelly old bloke plays in her local bridge club. He wipes his nose on his sleeve and smells horrible. She found the poor old sod rummaging among the large biscuit tin to find his favourites, and nearly had a fit! She reckons the bridge meetings will soon be put on hold (there are cases of the virus in Tayside already)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 05:31 AM

Is a huge bloom a Bloomberg?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 04:51 AM

Low dose Asprin (acetylsalicylic acid) has been shown to reduce the risk of certain cancers. Apparently it reduces the number of platelets which thins the blood, and it reduces inflammation.
No surprise it has benefits with COVID-19. There is a risk with bleeding in the stomach which is mostly related to other underlying conditions like ulcers though.

Dammed for what you do and dammed for what you don't
As long as they give a damn. They wanted the job, it comes with approbation, they can take it. If it helps us, we the sufferers, the funders, the workers, to get through the day - so be it. There are no clean neat solutions here, it will be messy. There will be mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 04:27 AM

With the paucity of accurate information, making meaningful decisions is the stuff of nightmares. Some reports say a person can be infectious up to 10 days before exhibiting symptoms, some say the virus is viable on certain surfaces for up to 3 days.
Some experts say the UK situation is perhaps two or three weeks behind Italy.
Kids are a source of infection both in and out of school. The infection is out there so reducing the rate of spread is the only game in town.
Any government facing this crisis will encounter accusations of too little too late. Other experts say "act too soon and you will simply cry wolf and be ignored".
This is a very different situation to sitting in a bunker trying to dodge a direct hit. It will rely on self policing to an extent and those worthy of a Darwin award will ignore all advice and be a potential risk to themselves and others. How do you deal with that?

A pandemic
A market crash
an oil price collapse
A perfect storm.(all sorts of bad news can be safely buried)


and a minor concern. How resilient will the internet be with all these people working from home?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 12:25 AM

It looks like mg was right to worry about the disposal of infected bodies:

Italian man pleads with authorities to collect sister's body during coronavirus

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 12:18 AM

Well said, pfr:

"Govt's are putting too much faith in the intelligence and altruism of our populations..."

Lucky you weren't on one of these trains:

People stuffed onto a train in Tokyo, Japan

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 10:37 PM

I had to venture out on a train today to see my mum...

As I got off at my destination,
I saw the young woman ticket collector/seller openly cough into her bare hand...

Govt's are putting too much faith in the intelligence and altruism of our populations...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 08:04 PM

Blooms will occur no matter what. They simply could be smaller than a possibly exponentially huge boom.
20% vs 60% bloom

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: matt milton
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 06:46 PM

"As could a strategy of delay. Dammed for what you do and dammed for what you don't. You would need to be able to walk the high wire for this particular game."

Yes indeed, not an easy decision. I have a lot of respect for Whitty but my intuition is that the government are not taking enough action here. Personally I think all businesses that have the capacity for their employees to work from home should tell them to. This strikes me as the least economically painful containment strategy. I think the government should have strongly recommended all UK businesses do so.

I would also be looking at ways to re-skill or provide useful activity to businesses, sole traders, shopkeepers, small one-person operations that will be put out of business (either temporarily or permanently) while everyone is at home.

I think I would probably delay closing schools, as the gov have done. But it is a massive gamble. The government are clearly gambling on corona cases not spiralling out of control before the Easter holidays and some kind of breathing space until summer holidays.

This could go disastrously wrong if cases increase exponentially as they have in Italy; it would mean schools would eventually have to close with thousands more people infected (and hence the most vulnerable being much more at risk than they would have been if more drastic action had been taken sooner)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 06:02 PM

As long as I have a cup of coffee...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 05:56 PM

If there are any preppers reading this, would toilet rolls be the top of your list for a "must have" in readiness for armageddon?

Back in the late 70s, anti-nuclear activists took a look inside some of the observation posts the state had positioned around cities that were expected to get nuked. Among the supplies provided to the observers while they were radioing reports back and waiting to die were tins of toilet paper.

British efficiency would probably have meant some of them didn't get a tin opener.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 05:18 PM

i don't think we'll starve in us but we might be eating a lot of soybeans. but i worry about if truckers start to get quarantined. certain stores? I take the wipes the stores leave out and wipe down everything I can. talked to UPS driver yesterday and asked about their pens etc. and she said they don't have to use them now. thank heavens. wash hands after getting mail. i was at post office yesterday and wanted to ask what they were doing..not so much as a sign up anywhere. i ask everywhere i go what are they doing. my grocery nearby is going to list all precautions she is taking..hope it drives busines her way. she said all people who came in one day last week were from seattle.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 05:14 PM

If there are any preppers reading this, would toilet rolls be the top of your list for a "must have" in readiness for armageddon? Or could it be that MRE's are really that bad. I have noticed baked beans have taken a hammering off the shelves also. However shelves of spam and corned beef are relatively unscathed. Strange priorities!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 04:43 PM

Lower petrol prices. So if people are laid off and unable to go to work, it will be even cheaper to stay at home?????? Latest craziness at my end - people are bulk buying flour!!!! I get through a packet, usually, every 2-3 months. I wish people would get it into their heads there are no shortages - it is just that sore managers are failing to bring in sufficient stock to meet the unprecedented demand - ie 30 times the normal toilet roll deliveries if they are selling a months stock in a day.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 01:42 PM

The chief medical officer for England, Professor Chris Whitty, has said behavioural science shows that if you start very tough measures too early people's enthusiasm will run out and if that happens at the peak.

He warned this strategy could have catastrophic effects.

As could a strategy of delay. Dammed for what you do and dammed for what you don't. You would need to be able to walk the high wire for this particular game.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 12:51 PM

House Covid 19 economic Bill proposal:

$1 billion in food assistance
$5 million emergency paid sick leave
Expand Social Securty
Expand unemployment insurance
Require virus testing

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 12:09 PM

The Prez OPPOSES the house corona virus bill that $upports people who are laid off or unable to phone in work, instead he says lower gas prices will put money in people's empty pockets.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 12:01 PM

UK response to Covid-19 labelled ‘pathetic’.

An expert’s opinion of the UK’s handling of the epidemic so far - doesn’t fill you with confidence, does it?

(Professor John Ashton CBE is a former lecturer and professor of public health at Southampton/London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and the University of Liverpool Medical School - Wikipedia)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 11:12 AM

As of 9am on 12 March 2020, 29,764 people have been tested in the UK, of which 29,174 were confirmed negative and 590 were confirmed as positive. Eight patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 09:49 AM

Our Alliance Française has cancelled everything. UVa is not holding classes oon campus. The branch of UVa I am hoping to teach for in the fall has cancelled everything for the spring. I am waiting to see what else is going under the chopper...

Subject: RE: BS: the last 3 standing
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 09:08 AM

Cruise ships are forbidden to dock in Venice.

The health system is under immense strain in Lombardy, a northern region of 10 million people where Milan is the main city. Regional hospitals are running short of beds and treating patients in corridors.

The health ministry says the average age of deaths from the coronavirus is 81.4 years.

Italy has one of the world's oldest populations. The virus is particularly dangerous for the elderly and those with underlying health conditions.

World Health Organization (WHO) chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has praised Italy for making "genuine sacrifices".

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 20 - 07:54 AM

11.35am update: Ireland lockdown

Irish Prime Minister, Leo Varadkar has announced emergency measures following the outbreak of the coronavirus.

Mr Varadkar announced all schools, colleges and childcare facilities in Ireland will now be closed until March 29.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 06:03 PM

No aspirin is not a cure but the right protease cutter would be.
Do not try this at home, protease cutters are tricky.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:40 PM

No audiences for March Madness tournments
NBA?
Universities are closing down
NO declaration of National State of Emeregncy for pandemicc, which 'he' did for a caravan of immigrants

Belittling, name calling and tweets doesn't seem to work on virus'.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:39 PM

A friend raised an interesting point tonight. On 7th May we have elections for London Mayor and London Assembly representatives. Should people who have been advised to self-isolate forgo their democratic right to vote and/or should the UK government be putting emergency proxy measures in place? - I can't see the latter happening as low voter turnouts tend to favour the tory party.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:27 PM

Pandademic
I wish.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 01:33 PM

At least it's not a 'pandademic'...

They might look cute and cuddly, but they can turn vicious...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 01:18 PM

The WHO has now declared the virus has created a pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 12:22 PM

But how many of the newly confirmed negatives will catch it soon enough...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 12:10 PM

As of 9am on 11 March 2020, 27,476 people have been tested in the UK, of which 27,020 were confirmed negative and 456 were confirmed as positive. Six patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 08:58 AM

Report on a Lancet article about what makes people more likely to die. (Link is in this news story).

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120173086/coronavirus-heres-who-is-most-at-risk-of-dying-from-covid19

The one thing that stands out for me is coagulation risk. I'm on microdose aspirin anyway, as is my wife; in general this does not seem like such a good idea for the general population as it did a few years ago, but in this situation it looks like it might make a difference, and it's about the only factor they look at that you can actually do anything about.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 08:54 AM

Never have so few done so little to kill so many.

I'm afraid its all bad news from here out...

The US is 1 week away from hospitals being overwhelmed.

That is what mitigation was deigned to slow down and prevent hospital insffectiveness.

The collapse of civilized behavior is the PANIC that we are told DO NOT . This is more likely to arrive on the other side of the bell shaped curve spike.

KIDS under 10 seem immune

Over ` 58 not immune

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 07:19 AM

UK Threat Level raised...    ;-)   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 20 - 05:45 AM

The story below is reported in various other media outlets so would appear to be true.
So much for EU solidarity!


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1253621/coronavirus-italy-eu-ursula-von-der-leyen-brussles-andre-loesekrug-pietri


www.nytimes.com › business › eu-exports-medical-equipment

Health ministers squabble over face masks at coronavirus talks
www.politico.eu › article › health-ministers-squabble-over-face-masks...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 03:31 PM

Hope for the best
expect the worst
You hope Obama
but get Robert Durst

Life's always fatal
From grave to cradle
You can't always right the wrong

Hope for he best
expect the worst
You have an idea
but bubbles burst

Life's always fatal
From grave to cradle
You can't always right the wrong

Hope for for the best
expect the worst
There's executions
and you're the first

Life's always fatal
From grave to cradle
You can't always right the wrong

Hope for the best
expect the worst
you may be blessed
or devil cursed

Life's always fatal
From grave to cradle
You can't always right the wrong

hope for the best
expect the worst
you got the lead
but its unrehearsed

Life's always fatal
From grave to cradle
You can't always right the wrong

Hope for the best
expect the worst
You have a Porshe
but its submersed

Life's always fatal
From grave to cradle
You can't always right the wrong

Hope for the best
expect the worst
The dead aroma
could be corona

You can't always beat the odds

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 02:29 PM

When you can't work from home or can phone in work you are likey to be laid off. UNLESS the government makes special assurances. Pharmacies obey insurance companies even in a pandemic? Yep
There are policies in NYS now that is tackling these issues including food deliveries.

Its up to localities or Governors to help you. Big Government not so much.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 01:58 PM

pfr - you are supposed to wash hands with the alcohol, not drink it!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 12:50 PM

How effective would a military surplus gas mask,
and discount sports shop boxing gloves,
be as street & shops wear to combat corona infection...???

Maybe wellies, and disposable plastic music festival poncho as well...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM

Has anyone noticed UK supermarkets are not re-stockng the shelves of the cheaper brands of items. Toilet rolls and porridge oats, are things I have noticed at several supermarkets. Things with a long shelf life. Not happening with food like yoghurt, bananas or bacon etc.

Using contingency plans formulated for a no-deal Brexshit, it has been said by spokesmen for the supermarket trade. Price rises predicted but not quite in this way.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 12:33 PM

This is at a time when local GP surgeries are closing down
to consolidate into big joint clinics
sharing much larger waiting rooms,
full of far more patients...

So when one suspect patient causes a town's mega big GP surgery to go into emergency shut down....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 12:33 PM

As of 9am on 10 March 2020, 26,261 people have been tested in the UK, of which 25,888 were confirmed negative and 373 were confirmed as positive. Six patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

Some interesting graphs below. Who has confidence in the Chinese one? Did lockdown work or is someone telling porkies?
Compare China to Italy


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51235105

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 12:25 PM

A doctor's surgery very near our Morrisons supermarket over in Fakenham closed a few days ago, and put a huge warning sign on the door. Apparently a patient had exhibited signs of the virus in their waiting room. But a mere one hour later it re-opened! It had all been a hum. I can't see how they could have tested the person so swiftly though. (It isn't our surgery, not that it matters.)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 11:34 AM

But I think you're right about Ebola. I suppose there could be other exceptions.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 11:30 AM

We've had this before here. Dead bodies don't harbour pathogens. Disease-causing organisms require living tissue and/or body temperature. After death, decay organisms quickly take over. A smell issue rather than a health issue. I did point to a website, funerals.org I think, that clarifies this. I mean, how do you think embalmers, funeral directors and cremation attendants would get on if they were constantly having to handle "diseased corpses?" The answer is, they don't. The organisms lose their virulence shortly after death. I believe that HIV could be a rare exception to that. When this came up before, someone mentioned anthrax spores. Well I don't think we need go around worrying about that too much. If you're going to get anthrax it probably won't be from your dead granny.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 10:32 AM

The UK are having a few events cancelled, but the Gov are saying no need to cancel (as of this date).

Listening to the news it struck me that if the Gov are serious in saying that, they haven't asked for everyone at events to provide contact details. Our event was ticketed by the venue and some punters would have left details via credit card etc. But some paid cash on the night!

The reason contact details are useful is: once a case is reported, the Gov claim to be tracing all possible contacts. This is how they can.

Another thought struck me is that the only way we lick this virus is when sufficient peoples' immune cells have been exposed. ie herd immunity

The containment phase will only delay that, but also the severity of the peak of the cases. But if the delay is long enough a vaccine may have been found. And history tells us, those that listen, there will be second and other waves as people relax and the virus mutates. It already has.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 10:22 AM

mg:
'Mandatory cremations' would be objectionable to many on religious grounds. A partial list can be found Here.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 09:18 AM

I don't think dead people carry coronavirus the way they carry ebola.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Mar 20 - 06:44 AM

:^}

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 07:17 PM

Two things to add to Donuel's list..homeless populations and prisons. Oh dear, I have brothers who work with each.

I don't understand why Seattle did not proclaim one hospital to be the place to have CV patients instead of one here and three here etc. You could have economy of scale with personnel, quarantine, training, housekeeping, machinery etc. At some point with a spread, they must do that and we might have to lower expectations of what a hospital is...a cow barn in south dakota??

What is concerning about the Kirkland WA case is the number of staff showing symptoms..70 out of 182 I think are quarantined or self quarantined. It was about the same rate as the elderly residents. Also the very high rates among the cruise ship staff.

There also need to be corona-free clinics for walk ins and corona possibility clinics for hopefully prearranged people. Everyone screened regardless.

One of my main concerns is the transportation of bodies and the safety of the personnel and the cleaning of the vehicles. Also I can't believe that there don't seem to be mandatory cremations or other immediate procedures of confirmed deaths. Memorial services should be by Skype or something.

Dink around with epidemics, especially in places with huge homeless populations, at your peril. It might be good that the Seattle area got hit the hardest first. Excellent medical and biotech and all sorts of tech capabilities. Bill Gates sponsoring test kits and making available soon. UW epidemiology dept., where I used to work in unrelated work, excellent.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 06:33 PM

Many can not afford to hunker down for long

Red so you are multi talented.
Gilly, good on you.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236544-coronavirus-are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/?utm_campaign=onesignal&ut

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 04:07 PM

The world economy was being driven by China. There were fears as it slowed down (relatively) it would cause a re-adjustment (aka recession stylee). We were due a re-adjustment. Oil prices?

COVID-19, or the actions in various countries to contain it, can't exactly lift the world economy. The repercussions will linger. It has a tail, and we ain't there yet.

UK floods don't help. It will mean higher premiums. Promises to build better defences will mean more government borrowing. Pound will be affected, imports more expensive.

And there are more costs ahead for the UK. Change costs money, payback (if & when) will be long coming.

All of which feed into pension pots, for those that expect to have a pension in future. Or are in receipt now.

If anyone cares to predict the effects of a mix of the above - welcome. But we are heading for troubled waters, in financial liquidity.

Personally I see the coronavirus as more of a concern - immediately. Ya can't wash yer hands of .............. er, should I re-phrase that?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 01:46 PM

It wasn't about financial benefit, it was a symbolic move that helped me sleep better at night.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 01:42 PM

If you moved 3 million you will not gain anything but you will not lose either.(other than inflation) The 3 million might provide you with the equivalent $ of a part time dishwasher's annual salary.
10 year US bond rate is now 0.4 or less
One could do worse than what you did.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 10:28 AM

In January 2019 I moved all of my investments into money market and non-volatile bond funds so as not to support the Trump economy and now I'm glad I did. I don't wish ill on anyone (I might make an exception to that regarding Trump, Miller, Pence, Barr etc.) but if this flagging economy and this pandemic helps rid us of the terminal disease that is the Trump administration the whole world will be better off in the long run,IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 10:21 AM

As of 9am on 9 March 2020, 24,960 people have been tested in the UK, of which 24,641 were confirmed negative and 319 were confirmed as positive. Three patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

The stock market was opened and then shut down automaticly after 15 minutes of a total collapse. Sure, everything is fine, its normal, nothing to see here.

Is that due to:
1) the corona virus?
2) The russians and saudis squabbling over the price of oil?
3) both?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 09:42 AM

The stock market was opened and then shut down automaticly after 15 minutes of a total collapse. Sure, everything is fine, its normal, nothing to see here.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 09:29 AM

The last time I 'caught' anything was that Russian flu, in 1977. It was rather nasty (high temp, weakness etc) but from all reports at the time you'd think it was going to be the Dreaded Lurgy. I didn't find it all that bad.
Haven't had anything since (not even a cold!) so I'm hoping my immune system is in good order. Being a teacher all my working life has probably given me a lot of antibodies, having been exposed to a myriad germs and bugs from my pupils.
At the end of the day (hate that expression!) we can't do more than wash our hands, eat sensibly and avoid large crowds if possible.
If I ever dared to look glum,my blooming father used to say, "Cheer up! It may never happen!" Good advice really...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 09:18 AM

With no overarching plan, you are in the hands of your local/tribal authoritiess or assume it is every one for themselves.
Good luck to each of you.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 09:10 AM

And how a government should not react:

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/coronavirus-ireland-response

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 09:08 AM

When I hear people saying that most people who get the virus will only have quite a mild illness , it makes me feel optimistic but then I wonder if that only applies to young , healthy people.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 09:05 AM

From the CDC
This is a rapidly evolving situation and CDC’s risk assessment will be updated as needed.
Current risk assessment:
    For most people, the immediate risk of being exposed to the virus that causes COVID-19 is thought to be low. This virus is not currently widespread in the United States.
    People in places where ongoing community spread of the virus that causes COVID-19 has been reported are at elevated risk of exposure, with increase in risk dependent on the location.
    Healthcare workers caring for patients with COVID-19 are at elevated risk of exposure.
    Close contacts of persons with COVID-19 also are at elevated risk of exposure.
    Travelers returning from affected international locations where community spread is occurring also are at elevated risk of exposure, with increase in risk dependent on the location.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 09:03 AM

I find the person in charge of our reponse and information regarding this disruption of life and possibly life itself, guilty of campaigning instead of organizing and preparing for a pandemic.

Res ipsa loquitur

So far the President HAS NOT TOLD THE PEOPLE:
What do we do except wash hands
How do we get tested
What shut downs may occur;
Financial crises
Schools
Hospital procedures
Sports
Rallys
Concerts
Cochella
Groceries
Regions
Travel
Worship
Voting
Cover ups
Congressional shut down
How long will communities be forcefully quarantined
Should we quarantine
What should we have on hand.

Will any response to our questions be forthcoming or not.

Will conservatives who are told it is just a media hoax become the chief carriers who infect the rest.

The answers to these questions come instead from yourselves piecemeal and contradicting.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 08:51 AM

I agree about industrial residue in clothes coming out of the washing machine. I often put them through with no detergent at all, and they come out quite nice and clean nonetheless.
I only have a bath every three days (I know, I know, Mrs Smelly!) because, like Prince Andrew, hee hee, I don't sweat much at all. And I only use the water, no products. I have very short hair, so it's not a problem. I just like the rose scent of my soap for hand-washing.
People often remark on how good my skin looks.
Some scientist/medical chap on the News last night was saying that most people who get the virus will only have quite a mild illness.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 07:23 AM

I knew a bloke at one school I worked at who caught flu three times a year, once a term. The odd thing was that he always caught it in time for Thursday and was fully recovered by Tuesday...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 07:03 AM

I don't want to stop your optimism, Steve, but that distorted reporting also happens with flu, so the comparative rate between coronavirus and flu is probably about right (pending more data.)

Of course, one of the major distortions on flu is people filling in sick forms for work, and flu is probably over-reported because of that, since 'flu' is a bit of a catch all on sick notes ...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 06:21 AM

There may be thousands of people who caught this disease who never knew they were actually ill, or who shrugged off mild symptoms as something else. There may be thousands of others in non-quarantined areas who didn't report themselves sick for fear of being locked down for weeks. The vast majority of such untraced people will be better by now, and they were never included in any counts. What I'm thinking is that figures for death rates are not very reliable. The fact that different regions seem to have different death rates seems to reinforce this. In addition, death rate numbers for areas with cases in the low hundreds or fewer would be intrinsically unreliable ("sample size" too small and possibly unrepresentative of the population). If a hundred people round here tested positive, but 15 were in a old people's home, and twelve of them died, to invent a hypothetical example...

So I have a feeling that the true death rate could be a fair bit lower than is currently being reported. End of optimistic musings...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 05:23 AM

THE CORONAVIRUS crisis has sparked a collapse in global oil prices with industry experts predicting the biggest one-day decline in 29 years today as demand dries up in the wake of the outbreak.

One new rule    from this event is that the business model for shale oil and gas is totally destroyed.
THE CORONAVIRUS crisis has sparked a collapse in global oil prices with industry experts predicting the biggest one-day decline

60%/bbl is commonly quoted as the breakeven price for shale
With WTI at 32$/bbl hell is coming for breakfast

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 09 Mar 20 - 04:09 AM

The Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission published on Feb. 28 by WHO is based on 55,924 laboratory confirmed cases. The report notes that "The Joint Mission acknowledges the known challenges and biases of reporting crude CFR early in an epidemic". Here are its findings on Case Fatality Ratio, or CFR (the mortality rate):

"As of 20 February, 2,114 of the 55,924 laboratory confirmed cases have died (crude fatality ratio [CFR: 3.8%) (note: at least some of whom were identified using a case definition that included pulmonary disease).

The overall CFR varies by location and intensity of transmission (i.e. 5.8% in Wuhan vs. 0.7% in other areas in China).
Wuhan also suffers considerable air pollution.

The London fog of 1952 killed 12000 people
Respiratory problems from air pollution exacerbated by complications from the   corona virus likely account for the higher death rate in Wuhan. The quoted percentages are likely suspect and may well change
over time (probably downwards)
The WHO suggests 7 million are killed each year by air pollution.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 10:05 PM

Well get her to do so. I'd be very interested.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 09:34 PM

Steve, Dorothy Parshall could speak to that subject.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 08:14 PM

A few years ago I was diagnosed as having lichen planus in my mouth (thankfully, and I believe oddly, I don't have it any more). The consultant told me to avoid all products that contained sodium lauryl sulphate. He prescribed me some iron tablets. When I picked them up I found that an ingredient was...yes, you guessed it!

SLS is a detergent that is strong enough to be an industrial degreaser. It's in all sorts of things such as toothpaste and shampoos.

For a few months I tried to avoid all soaps and detergents, including shampoos. In addition, I always give my clothes three extra rinses after machine-washing, even though I'd moved on to hypo-allergenic washing powder. I did very well but eventually I ran into the rough with my hair ( which I'm a bit short of) so I now use a pea-sized bob of shampoo in the morning.

I don't use any soap or other bodily treatment that contains added perfume. When I get out of the shower I use Simple light moisturiser on my face, arms and legs. I've felt a lot better with this regime and I no longer get itchy skin in parts of me that are in intimate contact with clothing. Before that, life could be miserable. I have a feeling that detergent residues in our clothes, towels and on our skin are making a lot of us feel miserable. The best washing machine on earth is a failure when it comes to that final rinse. If you don't believe me, do a wash, take the clothes from the machine and put them in a sink full of water. You'll be amazed at what's still in your clothes. Enzymes, bleaches, perfumes, optical brighteners...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 07:48 PM

It would be incredibly helpful all round if we could move on from associating Asians with face masks.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 06:40 PM

Iains, thanks for the link to the article on some of the reasons why some Asians wear face masks. Very interesting reading.

I have also been thinking about population. China's total population is almost 1.5 billion, which tops this list of
countries listed in order of population 2020 but Australia comes in at #55 on the list at almost 25.5 million. Our population is on land of approximately 7.6 million acres while China's land area is approximately 9.4 million acres. Not much bigger land area than ours.

In Australia we are very sparsely populated by comparison.

The populations of the cities of Shanghai and Beijing are each almost the same as the population of the whole of Australia.

If a huge number of people are living, working and socialising within a specified area like a city then the risk of passing infections from person to person has to increase dramatically compared with the scattered population of Australia, as an example.

It is uncommon in Australia normally (i.e. not during a pandemic) to see people wearing face masks in public but it is very common in Asian countries where the members of the population are in closer proximity to each other on a daily basis.

Just thinking out loud, in writing, on screen.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 03:01 PM

I would never use harsh soaps on my skin, neither would my husband. As Steve says, it does more harm than good. I just wash my hands with Woods of Windsor rose-scented soap while singing 'Skinny Malinkey Longlegs' all through. Husband sings some nice African ditty in Malinke.
We visited three different supermarkets yesterday, as I posted, and another this morning. One hand wash sufficed.
If we're all 'doomed,doomed I tell you' (Dad's Army) best eat some nice food, do the Mapouka and have a laugh.

Subject: RE: ALERT
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 01:18 PM

Dr Tony Fauci says " We are now In the mitigating phase of the pandemic".

We have treatments for the pandemic of AIDS . No-Vaccines

No treatments for Covid 19 . No vaccines

If Covid 19 goes down to low levels (like HIV) in the future but never burns out it will continue to kill in ever cumulative numbers annually.
or it could burn out, we don't know.

Thats why funding health Defense should switch budgets with the Defense Dept.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM

I have personally seen the results of obcessive compulsive hand washing and it is ugly.

The middle path is fine young grasshopper.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 12:27 PM

Nigel - you're always a bit too literal minded when it comes to sarcasm and any form of irony based humour..
But we are used to it by now...

Steve - You gotta remember it's how other more moderate fence sitting ordinary folks
observe and interpret us 'loony lefties' behaving,
that will influence how much they are willing to take us seriously enough
to eventually agree with our progressive ideas for a more positive future...
We must not constantly conform to the negative stereotypes of us
that boris and dom's lot have polluted voter's minds with...

That's my humble opinion.. for what it's worth...

Anyway better news.. Sumo is on and starts very soon at 4.30 on NHK channel 507 on Sky,
but an empty arena , no audience.. that'll be weird...

Also, BBC news headline, "Tesco to ration some essentials"...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 12:27 PM

Obsessive use of soap will do more harm than good. If you kill off your natural skin flora with anti-bac soap you are leaving yourself open to pathogens arriving on your skin that no longer have competitors. Not only that, you are favouring any resistant mutations that will multiply and which your soap can't kill. I'll carry on with our normal Carex Sensitive whilst singing Happy Birthday, and never fail to use hand sanitizer when I've been touching supermarket trolleys and before I grab the steering wheel. A little bottle of that lasts me for ages. As for viruses, soapy water loosens the dirt and grease on your skin and the viruses go down the plug hole.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 12:16 PM

Dawn anti-bacterial soap / Triclosan or Benzethalconium chloride.......vodka, washing up liquid ans water........Dettol / Chloroxylenol........

Knock yourselves out, but none of these are virucides.

(Dettol will kill your cats, tho.)

If there are indeed any readily available virucidal soaps FDA / CDC / MHRA approved I'd be interested to hear about them.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 12:10 PM

pfr: But look on the bright side..
Elderly life-long real racists will die in the coming months.....

John Donne Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.

I prefer the John Donne quote.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 12:08 PM

Be fair, pfr. I didn't kneejerk-accuse anyone of racism. My response to the post in question started with this:

"...had an Asian appearance."

Maybe I'm being a bit thick, but what's the significance of this?

Later on I followed up by asking for a reason for making the distinction that the mask-wearer was of Asian appearance. You couldn't glean a reason from the post, so I asked for one. I haven't accused anyone of being racist at all, and the matter has now been explained. OK?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 11:49 AM

We watch 45 hours of sumo wrestling beamed from Japan each year.
By now it is no longer a novelty seeing their social norm of wearing surgical masks in public..

Many westerners are not so used to this,
and can make clumsy poorly considered remarks when first noticing it.
But, in the greater context of this developing 'pandemic' crisis,
knee jerk accusations of racism
are somewhat self indulgent, and do create distracting unhelpful antagonisms...

.. and we still don't know for certain if the March sumo tournament is still going ahead...???

But look on the bright side..
Elderly life-long real racists will die in the coming months.....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 11:24 AM

I was intrigued to hear that people were clearing shelves of Hand sanitiser. I had previously refilled a 100 ml 'Lens Cleaner' spray with a mixture of vodka, washing up liquid ans water. Quite successful it was too. So I got a 300 ml 'Garden Hand Spray' off Ebay, about 1/3 full of vodka, a couple of good glugs of washing up liquid, a cap full of Dettol (kills 99% of germs) and topped it up with water. It cleans my hands very well. Even if it doesn't kill the virus I can still drink the rest of the vodka.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 10:55 AM

I've been using Dawn anti-bacterial soap, the same one we do the dishes with, for more than a decade and haven't had a common cold or the flu in that time. It's important to take your time, be thorough and especially to get up under your fingernails.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 10:36 AM

This would work.

Texas Coronavirus Prevention

Wash your hands like you
just got done slicing
jalapeños for a batch of
nachos and you need to
take your contacts out.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 10:06 AM

As of 9am on 8 March 2020, 23,513 people have been tested in the UK, of which 23,240 were confirmed negative and 273 were confirmed as positive. Two patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 10:01 AM

The remark about Asian appearance was a gratuitous inclusion in the post.

No, it was a relevant caveat. East Asian folks (at least the ones who visit the West as tourists) have a far lower threshold of infection risk perception than others. So seeing a bunch of them sightseeing in masks isn't a sign of general mass panic. Seeing the same number of Indians, Arabs, Germans or gammons in masks would suggest that.

I've seen hundreds of East Asians in masks in Edinburgh and Midlothian in the last couple of weeks, and nobody else at all doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 09:48 AM

Anti-viral soap is more drying and is more of a problem that good old-fashioned soap. I never use it if I can help it.

Dry cracked hands from too much washing can be a problem also. Use a moisturizer.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 09:41 AM

As of Friday Dulles airport were doing no fever screenings.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 09:21 AM

I am glad that racism is at a minumum here.
In a pandemic its moot anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 09:13 AM

https://qz.com/299003/a-quick-history-of-why-asians-wear-surgical-masks-in-public/

Which woke will wake first?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 08:23 AM

In my local YMCA gym yesterday, where attendance is about half of what it was 2 weeks ago, there were 2 people there wearing masks and they were both either Asian or Asian-American. Make of that what you will.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 07:50 AM

The remark about Asian appearance was a gratuitous inclusion in the post. You should have removed it before posting. Yes, you explained yourself later. Had no-one picked up on your remark, you wouldn't have done that. It behoves us all to review what we've typed before sending it to this forum. No more from me on this.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 07:50 AM

Random new rules:

The CPAC rally for Trump and Pence, in attendence, had a Corona virus carrier.

A old age home in town is on lock down after an infected guest visited.

People who fear these nursing homes like petri dishes for virus have a point. They want to be with loved ones as expressed on npr.

Starbucks do not fill reuseable cups anymore.

No Pope masses or appearances. NY govenor makes official a health emergency

The Covid 19 is officially in town here.
local churches have our new rules.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 06:53 AM

Last night at Stroud Ceilidhs the caller Fee Lock asked us to put a notice to the effect "wash hands before dancing" - so moving into high gear I put out surgical spirits in a spray bottle, anti-bac soap in a dispenser and foam anti-bac dispenser. And 4 notices.

The venue were asked to fill the soap dispensers in the loos a day before, and we are not over-impressed by the venue who didn't seem to respond, and even asked very pointed questions implying a poor choice of my personal, hard found, best 3 compromises. "Is it anti-viral?"

In an environment of specific shortages of anything appropriate. Attitudes to intelligent precautions, such as they were, when the venue can't even attend fairly basic health requirements.

It doesn't auger well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 05:36 AM

All this talk of racism, about something that was principally about religion. There is a natural discomfort with people who cover their faces. Criminals and IRA style terrorists eg. And there is a natural aversion to the subjugation of women in a society that has attempted to embrace equality.

We have, perforce, had to accept face masks so that may dilute the perception of hidden faces. But it is not all plus!

As is clear from an arrogant minority of peeps in this parish, lack of non-verbal communication causes poor comprehension and poor communications. The face is our principal conduit, you can't even use emoticons behind a mask. (:-!)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 05:30 AM

The sort of hospital care needed

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 05:24 AM

I woke up this morning and immediately thought, "You silly old woman! It was bitter aloes not alum!" Senile dementia sets in!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 05:16 AM

Alum does taste foul, but aloes is more likely the substance intended. I presume it's related to aloe vera but I've knly encountered it in literature (referencing the Bible?).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 08 Mar 20 - 04:42 AM

The post of 07 Mar 20 - 05:17 PM must have originated in the argument room. Fortunately no one took the bait,

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 10:46 PM

As I said earlier: "I was thinking more of the totally unfounded racism which some people have been displaying towards Asian people since the COVID19 scare started."

This pandemic is bringing out the worst behaviour in a lot of people. People who make assumptions about other people and then act on those assumptions without checking their facts.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 08:56 PM

it had apparently had foundation work done prior to using for quarantine.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 08:12 PM

... no-one speaking of the collapse of a hotel used for quarantine.
I looked it up enough to see
that the hotel existed before the pandemic,
this place was not hurriedly built to accommodate the contaminated.
What horrifying photographs as well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 07:52 PM

Well, Jeri, in your culture such remarks might not raise hackles. This end, we really do want to know why anyone would raise the ethnicity of someone wearing a face mask against Coronavirus. To us, it's just a PERSON wearing a mask. If there's a point to be made about a person "of Asian appearance" wearing a mask, well let's be having your reason for making that distinction. If you can't, well it does make you sound, well, a bit racist...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 07:30 PM

You assume she was talking about race, as in biological race. She may have been, but I assumed it was cultural. Things you learn from your family and people in your community.

In my opinion, there is oo much here of looking for the worst possible meanings in what people say, so there is some lame excuse to feel superior and lay into them. At the very least, ASK them if that's what they mean.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 07:19 PM

It's a very good idea to not get alum in your mouth. As a grownup you really shouldn't need toxic chemical reminders.

The 06.01 PM post is a risible attempt to backtrack on what was a gratuitously-pointless remark as to the ethnicity of the people the post referred to. The remark could just as easily have been made, with the same force, without that reference. I'm sorry to have to say this, but when I was in Western Australia I came across this attitude routinely, much as I loved the people there. References to ethnicity other than to white settlers and their descendants were routinely in the vein "I'm not a racist, and this is these people's country, but..."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 07:08 PM

I have just been reading an Italian FB thread from someone in Modena, on the edge of the shut-off zone. They are monumentally pissed off. Everybody in charge seems to have buggered off to their holiday homes as far away from the problem as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:59 PM

Ah! Have you tried tasting it?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:54 PM

That's funny, mg. Let's do it!

Senoufou, coincidentally I just recently bought some alum because I want to take up natural dyeing of wool again. I used to do it about 30 years ago. Alum is a mordant for the wool to fix the dye from the plants. Most were fairly muted but some of the colours were amazing.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:22 PM

Helen, I seem to remember my parents using something called alum to stop us sucking our thumbs. Very bitter-tasting.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:09 PM

Well said, Jeri.

Hmmm? "Cone of shame" to remind us not to touch our faces or eyes or suck our thumbs.

What was that vile tasting but harmless stuff which old fashioned parents used to put on their kids' thumbs and/or dummies to wean them off the habit? I'll have to drag that bit of obscure info forward out of the dusty dungeons of my brain.

However, aroma therapy may provide a useful solution. It doesn't have to be vile smelling. Just an aroma which becomes a reminder. When you smell it on your hands you will remind yourself not to touch your face or eyes, or suck your thumb - that is, if you are still enjoying that habit. My choice would be lavender. Not only could it help to retrain the brain, but it is supposed to have a calming effect. It might even help to prevent toilet roll envy and the accompanying overwhelming sense of panic. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:09 PM

i will start a new thread about pestilential buzz flies so not to distract from this very important thread.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:01 PM

Actually, I was thinking more of the totally unfounded racism which some people have been displaying towards Asian people since the COVID19 scare started. I was also wondering whether people of Asian appearance may be being subjected to pressure to wear a mask, wherever their ancestry is located, and regardless of whether they have had any contact at all with people who may have been exposed to infection.

I was more concerned that the lady may have felt pressured by other people to wear a face mask.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:57 PM

Cultural thing. I remember it happened with SARS, and probably did before that. NPR said that people were swiping masks from hospitals, where they're NEEDED, so they've ordered new ones, which are on backorder, and who-knows-when they'll come in.
Me, I figure I'm technically elderly, but I'm in good health, with an effective immune system.
We really need some type of "cone of shame" to remind us not to stick our fingers in our eyes or noses, or suck our thumbs.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:48 PM

As for fear it is our most primitive and deep seated emotion that has evolved the least to respond to danger. It gets exaggerated easily.
Expect to be lied to. The world has 'elected' the biggest liars.

Expect to survive. Biological inertia is amazing.

Expect to be nervous. We tend to think in possibilities not probabilities.

Expect lots of BS From people who do not know what to expect.

Expect people to do anything to survive, stupidly. Even toilet paper fights

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:43 PM

Very common to see - especially Japanese people. Every time I’m in London, I’m struck by the number of (apparently) Japanese wearing surgical masks, been that way for many years.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:31 PM

Nigel is right. Almost all the people I see wearing masks in Edinburgh are East Asian. It's been that way for 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:22 PM

Beijing residents wear masks usually due to the pollution alone.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:17 PM

Do enlarge on your theory, Nigel. Careful now...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:05 PM

This week, I've been hearing talk of cancelling singing sessions because of coronavirus. Tonight's chantey sing in San Francisco has been cancelled because of staff illnesses, but apparently not because of coronavirus.
-Joe-

---

Here's the announcement from Chanteyranger:

Ahoy from Hyde Street Pier –

Because of temporary park staff shortages due to illness, this Saturday’s March 7 chantey sing is cancelled. Be safe, everyone, and see you at the April 4th chantey sing, if you would like to reserve for that one. I will be back at this desk on Wednesday, March 11 and will respond to messages after then. Sorry to bring you this news. I know what a great community event the chantey sing is, and we look forward to being back with it in April. Thank you for your patience.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 04:13 PM

"...had an Asian appearance."
Maybe I'm being a bit thick, but what's the significance of this?
There does appear to be a preponderance of pictures of people wearing facemasks where the people are of Asian extraction. Maybe they react differently to these types of situations.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 04:05 PM

Coronavirus porn

My wife was on a train from the Borders this morning which was mostly full of rugby types on their way to the big Six Nations match. Most of them drinking Corona.

This feels like Poe's The Masque of the Red Death.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 03:29 PM

A former Scot?
That says alot

That means you got
to cross the river

Thats why you prove
You're as good as another.

when you're more independant
all together

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 03:28 PM

Heh heh pfr and Steve!! There's lots of moss in our lawn after all that rain, so maybe a handful of that would serve? I believe cavemen used that.
We saw a Muslim family in Asda today, and the two women were wearing burkas. We 'as-salaam aleikumed' them, and it struck me that a burka would be quite a good way of keeping germs away. Also, since I've had to have four lower front teeth out, my ever-uglier face would be conveniently hidden from view!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 03:26 PM

Are bidet sales up just now...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 03:21 PM

There's always the grassy slope...Just check for thistles and don't use the same bit more than once a fortnight... You might laugh, but I speak from the experience of spartan living in northern Scotland...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 03:17 PM

"...had an Asian appearance."

Maybe I'm being a bit thick, but what's the significance of this?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 03:00 PM

Sen - right then, hand shaking is definitely out...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:53 PM

Immunity boosting behavior?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:52 PM

My husband doesn't use toilet paper (many Africans don't). He has a small plastic pot with a spout (like a teapot) and washes himself after using the toilet. I could easily do the same if the toilet-paper disappeared from the supermarket shelves. People will just have to learn to be resourceful.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:40 PM

I think I'm going to invest in corn(cob) futures.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:23 PM

"Why have toilet rolls become the emblem of panic? "

Because smart phones and tablets can't replace daily newspapers
for every essential function...


ps.. flattery can sometimes make me so shy I go offline into hiding for days...

Hope any enemies don't use that secret weapon against me...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:13 PM

Thanks Backwoodsman for the quote from Abdu Sharkaway. That says it all for me about the overreactions of some people, usually fuelled by sensationalist media. The advice he gives for calm, rational action is exactly what everyone needs to be reminded of. Unfortunately the Australian federal government is again conspicuous by its absence in dealing proactively with the endemic panic.

I saw a couple at a supermarket this week. She had a face mask, and had an Asian appearance. He had a great big bandanna around the lower half of his face and looked like an ageing surfie/hippy. Now that looked to me like an overreaction.

There was a fight between some women over toilet rolls this week in an Australian supermarket and the police had to be called. The toilet roll shelves in the supermarkets I have visited are almost empty. I was not buying toilet rolls.

Why have toilet rolls become the emblem of panic? I don't know. I don't use sensationalist media sites, or watch their news or read their newspapers. I don't use Facebook. Maybe I missed the message and I am the one who is behaving irrationally.

Iains, tweetment and oinkment. Yep!

pfr, sorry (not sorry) to burst your bubble - in a nice way!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:50 PM

Guest, I jest.

Steve I know you are probably proud, vain, reasonably self informed and a bit inflated. Go with it. You are known for it, as much as Rap, but he makes it fun. You're right I can't help but to poke the bear but I really don't attack the bear. You just make it a delicious thing to do by objecting so seriously.
I'm sure if we want to voice an opinion you will tell us what it is.
See...its a joke but not a terribly good one.
If I didn't tease I wouldn't care.
So be it,
I don't want to make you sick.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:50 PM

We didn't bother looking for hand-sanitiser, disinfectant, wipes etc.
We reckon that merely washing our hands with soap and hot water when we get home should suffice. (We've always done this for years). So those shelves in Morrisons, Tesco and Asda may well have been empty.
I use bleach in the kitchen to sanitise the sink and occasionally the surfaces.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:31 PM

That was me. Someone ate my biscuit.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:29 PM

"Two people who tested positive for Covid, 19 died"

Reread Iains' post. You have fatally misquoted.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 12:58 PM

"Steve self aggrandizes..."

Steve does not self-aggrandise. I have my own careful way of expressing myself using decent English and I review every post carefully before I send it. I delete more than I ever send before sending. I avoid excessive sweariness and I don't bite back unless I'm attacked. I know how to be provocative but I don't target mild-mannered people. That's my way of doing things and I'm consistent enough. You attack me gratuitously all the time when I'm leaving YOU alone, and frankly, Donuel, you make me sick. You are weak-minded in your inability to prevent yourself from setting yourself up as some kind of unfunny cod-judge of some who are are clearly better people than you. I don't include myself in that. I've asked you before several times to lay off but you appear unable to help yourself. If you can't help yourself you're going to get a lot more of this kind of excoriation, and not just from me. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 12:51 PM

I severely doubt that of:
"Two people who tested positive for Covid, 19 died"

Thats like a 900% death rate!

The 2 most 'burning' questions on Twitter are "Will you prefer cremation by wood or gas"? and "While dead or alive"?
Electric car drivers chose wood and Catholic martyrs chose alive.


But here on the more intellectual mudcat forum we PROPOSE
WHAT TO DO AFTER YOU HAVE DIED?
To settle this great debate we have invited 3 guests who have died,
Konstance Coughlin, Prof. Franklin Finchbiter and Eleanor Handbasket.

Prof. Finchbiter, please begin our debate...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 11:36 AM

https://www.change.org/p/ebay-stop-online-sellers-cashing-in-on-hand-sanitizer-amidst-covid-19-crisis?recruiter=85704538&recruit

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 11:20 AM

As of 7am on 7 March 2020, 21,460 people have been tested in the UK, of which 21,254 were confirmed negative and 206 were confirmed as positive. Two patients who tested positive for COVID-19 have died.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 10:51 AM

In Edinburgh, Asian mask wearers were everywhere during the SARS epidemic and I've been seeing several every day for weeks now.

And the murderously stupid cunts in charge of the rugby industry have gone ahead with a Scotland-France match today. I've seen busload-sized tour groups of French rugger buggers sightseeing this week. While whole cities in France are locked down. Enough to send the epidemic in Scotland completely out of control.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 10:31 AM

I'm just wondering how long before I see a surgical mask wearer in town...???

How good am I at stifling laughter these days...

I remember my amazed reaction when I was a young boy
and saw my first long haired Hippy in the same shopping high street...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 10:27 AM

That’s funny Sen, I’ve been out to our local Mozza’s this morning and it seemed unusually quiet and lacking in customers. The bog-roll shelves had very little on them (although I did manage to get a 9-roll pack of our usual bum-fodder), the tea shelves were thinly stocked - not a Taylor’s of Harrogate Yorkshire Tea-bag to be had - very few boxes of tissues, cleaning materials very sparse (no Dettol surface-wipes of any kind), and no hand-sanitiser.

Yet everyone I talk to claims not to be panic-buying or stockpiling!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 10:13 AM

We've just got home from quite a long journey around our part of Norfolk.(Husband needed new work trousers, steel toe-capped shoes and thermal Long Johns) It may just be my imagination, but everywhere we went, people seemed to be super-smiley, extra-pleasant and supremely courteous.
Could this be a modern-day sort of Dunkirk Spirit? A kind of 'Keep Calm And Carry On' under adversity type of thing?
No-one had been panic-buying. We got all our usual supplies in the supermarkets, including toilet rolls, which I'd heard have been stock-piled by frantic customers elsewhere, leaving empty shelves.
Hope this positive attitude continues - in my view it's the only sensible way to proceed.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 09:36 AM

Bugger it.. I've just found out I'm a nice reasonable bloke..
I blush at the praise...
but now feel a bit unsure of my punk rock identity...

OK, science expert on BBC news just squashed rumours that infected items,
eg toddlers toys that have been slobbered over,
can be - cleaned killing virus - by a few hours in the freezer..

Instead he suggests old fashioned swabbing down with weak solutions of peroxide or bleach...

.. or chucking batches of things in the dish washer.
Provided they are dishwasher safe and separately washed
from food utensils and crockery...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 08:48 AM

Now you've got the idea.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 08:45 AM

CTFO :^]

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 08:28 AM

You should have that tattooed to your forehead. -------- In reverse to be read in the mirror?

Annnnnnd........


Eyeore would get diarrhea with COVID-19 which would make him ..................











Winnie the poo (ISIRTA 1971)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 08:12 AM

"One can, with practice, say more with fewer words"

You should have that tattooed to your forehead.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 07:15 AM

PFR has the most outrageous and humourous take on current events, Steve self aggrandizes, Helen yells "unfair', mg is on a search of a problem that does mot exist as well as his own thoughts and IRONICLY
Iains and Backwoodsman are consistantly well grounded, focusing on facts we can know.

One can, with practice, say more with fewer words, so...
Chill the fuck out

Expect to be lied to. The world has 'elected' the biggest liars.

Expect to survive. Biological inertia is amazing.

Expect to be nervous. We tend to think in possibilities not probabilities.

Expect lots of BS From people who do not know what to expect.

Expect people to do anything to survive, stupidly.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:40 AM

The doctor on facebook may be correct but I would prefer to have my risk assessments delivered by experts in the field.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525302/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK54163/

I think it would be a reasonable assumption that containment has likely failed. The next objective would be to slow the spread. This time of year seasonal influenza makes a demand on acute care bedspace. Slowing the spread enables intensive care facilities to deal with larger numbers over time.
An uncontrolled spike would rapidly overwhelm available resources. No matter what sort of health system is in place, it cannot deal adaquately with a surge in demand for intensive care. Whatever side of the political spectrum is in power, there will be contingency plans that have been wargamed for a pandemic. We probably will not like many of the proposed control measures and the economy will likely take a massive hit, but pandemics do occur. The bblack death was a particularly nasty example and even today plague pits are treated with care.(though experts say they are unlikely to pose a risk)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:32 AM

Right, Helen!

So far in this thread I've posted substantially either to or around the topic 29 times. I've also posted jovial, jokey, mostly very brief and always inoffensive posts 29 times. I've bitten back against idiocy, mostly or even wholly from two men, six times. I've responded to mg in disagreement several times but never in an abusive manner. An additional fact for you: after many years on this forum I only found out on Feb 21 that mg wasn't a man, after someone used her first name. You have posted around 17 times, few of which posts contain very much of substance about Coronavirus, some of which are now attacking male posters for attacking women because they're women (with very little if any justification) and a couple of which perfectly unjustifiably stereotyped Aussie men.

I never attack women because they're women and that very suggestion is, frankly, a slur. You are currently attacking men because they're men. Feel free to attack me for posting too much (you could be right). What seems quite likely to me is that you are carrying a grudge across to here from another thread on which we crossed swords. I vaguely remember the spat but I can't even remember what it was about now. You really do have better things to do. Do feel free to have the last word. Maybe you could make it as civil as I've tried to make this post, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 06:06 AM

Another, more serious comment from a health-professional...

Cut and paste from Facebook's Abdu Sharkaway (fixed by mudelf)

I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

#washurhands #geturflushot #respect #patiencenotpanic

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:48 AM

For bird flu you need tweetment
for swine flu oinkment

I'll get me hat

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:39 AM

how do you remove a body from a high building, or a basement, without touching them.

Smash out the windows and reintroduce vultures.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:12 AM

I share, without comment, this piece lifted from Facebook...

"Where are we going Piglet?" asked Pooh.

"We need to get supplies," said Piglet. "For the Coronavirus"

"Ahh," said Pooh, nodding in understanding. "Things like bread, milk, cough mixture, tissues and cat litter even though we don't have a cat?"

Piglet did a little laugh, and a sort of leap and bit of a cough. "No," said Piglet. "No, those aren't the sort of supplies we need at all! What we need are family sized bags of chocolate buttons, massive toblerone, jelly babies and crunchies and a freezer full of stuffed crust pizzas, and all of the Prosecco that we can possibly carry, so that when we get quarantined we won't mind it even slightly. THOSE are supplies."

All of a sudden, Pooh thought that the idea of coronavirus didn't seem quite so bad, and actually, getting quarantined with Piglet and their supplies really didn't sound such a terrible thing after all. "Oh Piglet," said Pooh. "I really do think you are a very wise animal."

As they walked along they spotted Eeyore stood by a stream watching the sticks float by.....

“Hello Eeyore.” Said Pooh, “we’re off to buy supplies to sit out the quarantine, would you like to come?”

“No thank you.” Said Eeyore “I’m just going to stand here, look at the stream and contemplate the Economic impact of a media induced panic that several companies are projecting folding straight out of Brexit. Also the NHS being brought to its knees by a huge panic, and the social impact of people distrusting others because they look or are associated with China. People are dumb.”

“Well that’s sad.” Said Pooh “I much prefer getting shitfaced and eating Pizza.”

“The ironic thing.” Smiled Eeyore is that Panic induces the Stress Response, and the first thing the stress response does is switch off the immune system.”

“Huh.” Said Pooh. “why would the media do that.”

“I don’t know.” Said Eeyore “I just watch sticks.”

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 05:03 AM

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---5-march-2020

The word from the WHO is Phase One, containment!
The word from the UK chief medical officer is phase Two "Delay"

England’s Chief Medical Officer Professor Chris Whitty said it was “optimistic” to believe that the efforts to contain the spread of the virus could have been successful.

Talking to the House of Commons health committee, Professor Whitty said: “We have moved from a situation where we are mainly in contain, with some delay built in, to we are now mainly delay.”

I suspect that the word pandemic will shortly be used, unless the world is very lucky.

Well Punk. Do you feel lucky?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:53 AM

mg - jovially pointing out your tendency to over react, spread rumour,
and fantasise about a sci-fi technological response to a developing real-world threat,
is not rude...

You'll know it if I ever resort to real rudenesss,
then maybe I'll gain promotion from "rude person number 4"
to nearer a top spot in the ranking...??

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:50 AM

mg, I think that you are looking for workable solutions to a problem which is in all probability going to happen, but which most people have not even recognised yet. So you are looking into future solutions while the two pestilential buzz-flies are just making loud empty mindless noises around you for no other reason than to draw attention to themselves.

From my observations so far, they do tend to target women more than men when they are being discourteous and rude.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:40 AM

https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/robotics-hardware/robots-helping-to-fight-coronavirus-outbreak robots

what i was thinking during hurricane sandy is how to get the elderly and infirm down several flights of stairs with no elevators. this was a huge problem at the time. you could probably pass some out a big window to a cherry picker outside. or have a sled that sides down the stairs like ski patrol uses. carrying on stretchers would wear people out too quickly. And these people weren't contagious.

now..how do you remove a body from a high building, or a basement, without touching them. think of the basement unit in Parasite..and that is probably a luxurious apartment compared to what many people would have. How do you get a stiff body into a body bag probably adding their medical waste with the minimum exposure. I think robots could drag them down stairs once safely ensconced. I think body bags are not the only solution.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 02:17 AM

None of you will have to step over dead bodies on the side walk.
What you will have to learn is how to live in a different world. One which is more poor with even less sustainable decadence.

While you were looking behind you, a very real 10 trillion dollars was removed from access.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:39 AM

i certainly don't see them as big strong men but perhaps I am wrong. Rude person number four, I am unfortunately not in the category of sensitive folk. I have a heart of steel, forged in a very serious fire. I have known big strong men and I so respect the big strong men and women whose lives are on the line here, china, italy, iran etc.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:28 AM

You are, pfr, but my virtual Aerogard is at the ready for the two annoying and persistent pests.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:22 AM

Helen - spreaders of misinformation and alarmist rumours
should not be humoured or encouraged,
no matter how much you like them as friends...

Sensitive folks might not be happy with our sarcasm and morbid humour,
but we are being far more patient and gentle with mg
than many other sites would...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:13 AM

Shops ransacked by panic buyers.. don't worry..
Big Clive to the rescue...!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgY04l0CuEs

"Emergency DIY hand sanitizers

81,198 views•Mar 5, 2020
bigclivedotcom
598K subscribers
Every time a new virus incident occurs there's a rush on hand sanitizers, often causing shops to sell out.
Here's how to make some simple emergency sanitizers at home,
noting that they are not as effective as just washing your hands,
and only some viruses can be damaged by simple sanitizers.
These options are offered as a last resort when commercial versions are not available."...

Obviously, this video links to similar tutorials now cropping up..
But a lot of us Brits know Big Clive is a fairly reliable bloke...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 07 Mar 20 - 01:11 AM

Steve Shaw and Mossback, does it make you both feel like big strong men when you gang up on women and abuse them? Even from the anonymity of your computer?

Your attacks on people who want to talk sensibly about a serious topic are nothing more than annoying.

Like an annoying, insignificant little, eensy-teensy tiny-whiney mosquito. There is no substance to your comments. Empty words with lots of aggression. Whine, whine, whine, ad infinitum.

Where's the Aerogard?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 06:45 PM

Torpedo the cruise ships in deep water..
Napalm infected schools and care homes..
Equip police with flame throwers to clear homeless folks off the streets..
Wrap yourself head to toe in several layers of clingfilm..
Don't go out unarmed..
Save one bullet for yourself..

There's some ideas for worried Americans...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 06:33 PM

You do sound like you're over-dramatising, that's all...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 06:20 PM

did i say magic up? I think more like trials, in a country where they have been producing them in large scale. I did not say huge fleets. How should bodies be handled? How should they be disposed of and how quickly? How many more places can afford to have their entire fire department on lockdown. How many hospitals have medical staff on quarantine? Sorry for looking foolish and inspiring ridicule from rude people but we all should be looking at every aspect of this and providing ideas, no matter how silly they seem. Some good ones will emerge. For example, how do you get 400 kids' hands washed perhaps coming and going to school? That is a big one. Wipes, I suppose, but they are in short supply...but we certainly could make our own soapy water ones.

Let me add to what planet do I live on. One where the quarantined?? cruise ship now in California is due to dock at a port very near me..and I doubt it will arrive, and if it does, I doubt they will be let off the ship..but if they are, they will mingle with a small town and that is how it goes.

and rude person #3 or whatever you are, I think a country that makes self driving cars could certainly provide five or six as gifts..https://fortune.com/2020/01/07/elon-musk-tesla-gigafactory-shanghai-china-ceremony/ and could ramp up to large fleets if necessary. The more robotic devices that are used for transport, patient care, room cleaning, waste disposal (have we heard anyone talk of this?) food production in these cases, the better for now..

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 05:59 PM

I'd like to know how any country could, in the present circs, magic up huge fleets of self-driving cars, let alone ambulances, in the next couple of weeks...


...mg...?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 05:46 PM

Mary, please seek help. I'm worried about you, really.

Best,

Bill

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 05:03 PM

what planet do I live on?
one where my niece is a pharmacist at a hospital at the epicenter
one where my brother runs the hvac at a jail
one where my handicapped brother works at a homeless (formerly) hotel (thought he was working at a regular homeless shelter but no)
one where my sister is a retired army nurse and could get called up
one where a huge homeless population is living on the streets and already ramping up other epidemics
one where a huge university has shut down in person classes
one where a friend lives right next to the nursing facility in crisis
one where finally some common sense is tiptoeing in..911 calls being screened for conditions, masks are first rationed for hospitals and not oh please don't buy them..one where businesses are really hurting. many will not survive. one where people stand outside the nursing facility to wave to their dying (perhaps) patients (as they should). One where we are obviously unprepared and if we are unprepared how are very financially constrained countries going to fare? Bangladesh? Philippines? Nigeria? And do we not have an obligation to keep our own spread of the virus down so they can weather this storm?

One in which most people are still polite, but that could change on a dime. If you could save lives by having self driving cars (still how do you get a body into the car) on empty streets (I am referring to Wuhan) and there is a huge factory pumping them out (I hope still), why would you take the time to ridicule someone who is trying to think of solutions? A whole entire fire department is quarantined in Kirkland, I believe from exposure to one or more patients they transported or assisted.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 04:52 PM

The president is expected to sign the 8.2 billion dollar Covid 19 budget. Lawyers have advised the president that he can not sue Covid 19 except under special circumstances..

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 02:39 PM

From Harvard Medical School, updated March 5 2020 (yesterday.

Also being covered right this minute on PRI's Science Friday.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 02:21 PM

let's get self driving ambulances and hearses at least in china,

What planet, exactly, do you live on, Mary?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 12:17 PM

BBC website, reporting on the fact that UK Supermarket executives deny the claim by Matt Hancock that supermarkets had been consulted and given assurances on the continued supply of food, and contingency for getting food to self-isolating peeps. Supermarket spokesman (not named) said:

"We are using processes and staffing levels we set up in case of a no-deal Brexit."

The executive added: "While I think people don't need to panic buy and should just shop normally, I'm not sure the government can guarantee all food supply in all instances."

There was no suggestion that there were food shortages, but people bringing forward some purchases was creating logistical challenges, he said.

So on the plus side, Brexshit has proved one bonus, not that it can brag about it, being unforeseen, unwanted and the only one........... so far.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 11:49 AM

As of 9am on 6 March 2020, 20,338 people have been tested in the UK, of which 20,175 were confirmed negative and 163 were confirmed as positive. One patient who tested positive for COVID-19 has died.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 09:51 AM

If the Rugby 6 nations is postponed,
at least we can fall back on the Pandemic 6 Nations competition..

For a change, Italy is winning...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 09:32 AM

11 cases now in Scotland. One of them in Lothian, where I live.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 09:21 AM

Traffic is slow, people are all smiles and have the anticapatory anxiety of a snow storm that will miss us entirely. Grocery stores except for Costco and Walmart are fully stocked.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Mar 20 - 05:42 AM

Living on borrowed time has come to sn end. Its here with 11"found" cases among folks returning from Italy. It time to put the new rules to daily use.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 11:17 PM

Hospitals where I live are screening visitors at their front doors. Just answer a few simple questions correctly and you get a sticky label with the name of whatever day of the week it is to put on your shirt and you're good to go. Answer the questions incorrectly and I'm not sure what happens. Get tossed into the bio-waste incinerator, maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 10:48 PM

David Pogue on CBS Sunday Morning in 2010 did a good story on the subject, with illustrations.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 10:14 PM

I guess I chickened out about going to Berlin in May. I'm 71 and not as strong and healthy as I'd like to be. So, I think maybe it's not a good idea to fly to Europe. We've been wanting to explore Colorado Springs and Pike's Peak and all that, so maybe we'll do that in May.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 08:58 PM

Good for you. But as soon as I've panic-bought at least 500 bottles of red wine and two years' supply of hand sanitiser, disinfectant spray, baked beans, pot noodles, headache tablets and toilet paper, I promise to behave rationally. Honest.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 08:14 PM

let's plan ahead so families are not left with corpses, hospitals can remove bodies quickly, nothing is even taken to a morgue i hope..straight to a cremation facility. let's get self driving ambulances and hearses at least in china, which has a big tesla factory and pretty empty streets..can start there. let's ridicule and shame people so ones who are socially sensitive shut up instead of bringing up necessary subjects. i am socially obtuse and care about almost nobody's opinion anyway so have at it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 08:14 PM

I'll get hysterical once I've bought 500 rolls of bog paper and can then REALLY start panic-buying...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 06:53 PM

BRING OUT YOUR DEAD !!! BRING OUT YOUR DEAD !!!



I mean, lets all get hysterical about this....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 04:03 PM

OMG lol
One can always use a phone book and plastic bag in a pinch.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 03:53 PM

There was a major disaster in Australia yesterday, apparently. A big truck carrying toilet paper crashed and then caught on fire.

"Toilet paper wipeout! Thousands of rolls are feared DESTROYED as delivery truck crashes and bursts into flames."

Hello! This would not have even been talked about by the locals let alone making national sensationalist news headlines without the panic being generated by some irresponsible media outlets.

Sensationalist coronavirus reporting a 'bigger contagion' than the virus itself

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 03:16 PM

There are many bogus and preposterous cures for Corona virus emerging.
India is using clove nose drops with a secret ingredient. pee
Mexico is so superstitious they rely on witch doctors.
Now the US has an organic cure that is going Facebook viral, 0.5 grams of finely grated White Nationalist testicles. Beware of imitations. They advise you get it in person. Make white nationalists grate again.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 03:13 PM

"Never use anything anti-bacterial. If it kills, say, 99.9% of germs, only the .1% strongest are left to multiply. Not good."

Nonsense, I'm afraid. These products, used properly, kill all germs. The manufacturers, however, can't make that claim because there's always the chance of someone misusing their product who will catch the germ then blame the product. The manufacturers are simply covering their arses. In the olden days we had ads for a bleach that claimed that it killed "all known germs." Note the variation on the caveat. I'm an atheist, as much as anyone is an atheist. But I'm only 99.9% certain that there's no God. Same kind of thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 02:34 PM

At the doctor's surgery today, we noticed they'd removed the touch-screen thing for signing in. But the lovely nurse Jayne (she lives in our village just round the corner!) gave me a big hug. I thought this was lovely of her and didn't care one bit about germs.
I was also heartened to see no huge scary notices pinned up about symptoms or 'what to do if...'.
We did wash our hands when we got home, but we always have done anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 02:25 PM

Never use anything anti-bacterial. If it kills, say, 99.9% of germs, only the .1% strongest are left to multiply. Not good.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 02:10 PM

News reports coming in that leading UK pharmacies are now rationing anti bacterial products
as profiteering scum have been buying it all up off the shelves
to put on ebay at extortionate prices...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 01:32 PM

Tea tree oil is brilliant stuff. It is antiseptic. You can dilute it because some people might have a skin reaction if the amount is too strong.

I didn't think of using it for antiseptic hand wipes but it could work. Maybe. Whether it works against COVID19 is another question.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 01:25 PM

Thanks to William Dalrymple for finding this brilliant suggestion.

It's bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 01:02 PM

Hold on... I've just remembered grandad - my dad's dad - got to 80..

But I rarely think about his side of the family,
and I don't recall ever seeing that grandad
awake or move out of his armchair...???

So.. I may have long life genes on both sides after all, that's a bonus..

Not that corona will care much and give a me special pass...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 12:16 PM

I now wear gloves which reminds me if I touch my face.
You will find it the hardest habit to break.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 11:36 AM

no men in my close family have reached 70 since great grandad back in the 1940s...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 11:34 AM

Most of you will be part of this global lottery.
I'm OK with any result since my number is up in 3 years anyway.

How about you?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 11:16 AM

As of 9am on 5 March 2020, 18,083 people have been tested in the UK, of which 17,968 were confirmed negative and 115 were confirmed as positive.
Cases
East of England
8
London
25
Midlands
9
North East and Yorkshire
10
North West
17
South East
17
South West
15
To be determined
4
Total
105

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 07:52 AM

Coal tar soap is for wimps. Far better to go the whole hog and use creosote. I seem to remember reading somewhere it is a thousand times stronger than cresol. The host may suffer collareral damage however.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 07:18 AM

the great trump hunch

Trump has a hunch his numbers are best
his truth is better than all the rest.
The Pense Prayer to walk before you crawl
will save you from any thinking at all

Even if it doesn't make sense
go to work if you are sick or tense
I've done the best, its clear to see
It will all go away if you vote for me.

The Democrat is sickest by far
to politicize a cold like SARS
Its better to kill them if they come near
with all their coughing and media fear

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 05:34 AM

Wiki defines Rubbing Alcohol redirected from Surgical Spirts as either isopropyl based or ethanol based. My bottles of Surgical Spirits are ethanol and methanol at an unspecified concentration but take that as around 127^o proof / 70% ABV.

Not the best thing for continued use but as a back-up can be put in smaller containers for emergency use, say in rucksack & car & shopping bag and &............
How effective is tea tree oil? Ozzies avoided conscription in WW2 if they worked collecting it, they thought it effective.

Pfr - So basically, if we need to clean Dr's clinics and shop touch pads etc, - use a smart phone dabber, and clean that regularly, with alcohol or..............

COME BACK COAL TAR SOAP - all is forgiven!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 04:41 AM

If pilgrimage sites are included in the list of places to avoid for fear of catching something nasty, it rather brings into question the point of pilgrimages.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Mar 20 - 04:14 AM

If I am dead, I will be in purgatory hopefully and it will not matter in the least if I went or not.

All of us, rich or poor, meek or mighty, will be dead in the end. What would be the point of doing anything if it didn't matter in the least if it was done or not? I intend to make the most of what I have got. I will be a long time dead.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 09:26 PM

if i am exposed at home, which i very well could be, i could bring it to airports, hostels, train stations, restaurants, pilgrimage sites, st. patrick's day celebrations. Or I could pick up something there. Not worth the disruption to the lives of others or myself. If I am dead, I will be in purgatory hopefully and it will not matter in the least if I went or not.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:50 PM

so glad i cancelled my trip .....
......so we are probably all exposed.

If you are exposed at home, you may well to catch it anyway, so cancelling your trip could be a waste of time. If it is as bad as some people are trying to make out, by late September you could be just a statistic. I would have taken the trip while I was still alive to do it.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:42 PM

I think I'd rather risk catching it sooner to get it out the way with,
than living in increasing fear day by day trying to postpone the inevitable...

Surviving in an isolated prepper bunker until a vaccine is widely available freely for all,
aint an option...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:28 PM

so glad i cancelled my trip to ireland and spain for next week. rescheduled for late september. would have been on trains, in hostels, heathrow airport etc. had great travel insurance but not worth either bringing bug to europe or bringing something back. i live in washington state so we are probably all exposed.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:54 PM

Another cruise ship actually has infections aboard.
Its docking in San Francisco may be delayed which is a shame because it was only supposed to be a 3 hour cruise a 3 hour cruise.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:48 PM

Soylent for that keto diet you've been looking so forward to!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 05:56 PM

For those who enjoy the entertainment of a good out break movie like Matt Damon's 'Outbreak' there is also Tom Hanks 'Inferno'.

I never liked Z Nation because the infected were healthier than me.

Sunlight disinfects on a dry day
Don't forget to "bring out your bread"...clang

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 05:21 PM

Song for COVID19: If you're happy and you know it, wash your hands.

I can't claim credit for that. It was a parting comment on an item in a forum.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 04:53 PM

Yorkshire ramps up the Covid-19 Threat Level...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 03:27 PM

Jack Campin said, "It also doesn't help if your funeral customs involve the whole family chopping Grandma up to eat her brains".

I was watching a recent episode of Trust Me I'm A Doctor and one of the doctors was test driving a powdered meal replacement/shake. In one scene there was an image of a few brands of shakes and one brand was Soylent.

If anyone is old enough to remember the film called Soylent Green then you would know why I was taken aback. Is this brand name a joke or do they not know what the ingredient supposedly was in Soylent Green?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 03:19 PM

According to its safety data sheet, Servisol Super10 doesn't seem to be alcohol based. Its application is as a lubricant and is a mixture of petroleum distillates. Repeated exposure may cause skin dryness or cracking.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 02:37 PM

"The World Health Organization announced Tuesday the global mortality rate from coronavirus was 3.4%. The death rate so far — which includes more than 3,000 deaths — is many times higher than the mortality rate of the seasonal flu, which is 0.1%. WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said that is at least partly because COVID-19 is a new disease, and no one has built up an immunity to it."

It could also be said that those that have the virus and show a mild reaction to it will not show on any statistics. This would skew the mortality rate and make it appear much higher than it is.

Time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:41 PM

I panic bought half a dozen eggs this afternoon, even though I still had two left in a box. Call me Mr Selfish, but I'll not be deprived of my omelette...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:37 PM

Wife says all the anti bacteria soap has sold out in tesco...

I used to buy Tandy spray cans of contact cleaner.
One with added lube, the other without, so mostly alcohol..
I should have an old litre can of ethanol [or similar] somewhere in the house..

I now have cans of servisol super 10, but can't see contents listed on spray cans..


So basically, if we need to clean Dr's clinics and shop touch pads etc,
all we need is an aerosol of alcohol contact cleaner.. and a lighter...

Spectacular pocket sized flame thrower...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:56 PM

sorry the mood setting was set waay to high for the auto post 2000.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:56 PM

Just to clarify, the WD40 I referred to isn't the usual lubricant version but a special version for cleaning electrical contacts. Yep, propanol = rubbing alcohol. It does kill germs. I used it a lot for cleaning and sterilising harmonica parts from harps obtained from other people. The contact cleaner isn't pure propanol. It's got other stuff in it that might not be so desirable for killing germs on surfaces or skin.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:45 PM

d-5, s-1 autopost 3-4-20:

I hope everyone is happy and healthy on this great Spring day.
Its all sunshine warm with blooming cheery cherry trees and daffodils.

Love always,
Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:41 PM

maybe the excise duty on vodka will be dropped for the duration. Smirnoff is 50%alcohol. However 70% ethanol is reckoned to be best. Any higher percentage may evaporate before it can permeate through the cell wall and terminate the little beastie.
Many hand sanitizers contain up to 60%-95% ethanol or isopropyl alcohol

As of 4 March, a total of 16,659 people have been tested in the UK, of which 16,574 were confirmed negative. 85 were confirmed as positive.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:32 PM

Back when I had an old house and was trying to get a few more years out of the asphalt shingled roof I used a lot of black mammy on it and I was like a magnet for that stuff. After a lot of trial and error I found WD-40 to be the most effective hand cleaner to use after the tarring and, no lie, it left your hands feeling silky smooth. I can't attest to it's effectiveness as a germicide though.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:25 PM

"Rubbing alcohol". I use it for art stuff. It also works great to remove Sharpie writing.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:19 PM

The WD40 version contains less than 20% propanol, so I'm not so sure that it's suitable.

You can't buy anti-bac wipes or Dettox (and similar) sprays round here today.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:16 PM

The safety data sheet for WD-40 electrical contact cleaner spray says, amongst other things, that it is extremely flammable and a skin irritant. Thorough washing with soap and water is recommended.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 12:10 PM

If the alcohol (propanol?) is not too diluted and is used in sufficient quantities, it should work well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 11:45 AM

I'll ask again..

how effective is alcohol based electrical contact cleaner
as a hand wash and surface sanitiser...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 11:38 AM

Funerals:
The real danger is for hospital workers & undertakers. Mind you formaldehyde is not exactly benign itself, but it would kill off most pathogens in the deceased.

Crematory workers would be safe, surely?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 11:09 AM

Bacteria and viruses that cause disease (as opposed to decomposers, which are a smell threat rather than a health threat) generally can't survive more than a few hours in a dead body (HIV may be a rare exception)

The really significant exception is anthrax, where the spores can survive for decades.

It also doesn't help if your funeral customs involve the whole family chopping Grandma up to eat her brains.

Kuru

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 10:58 AM

Just got home from the Dr's [routine appt]...

As you enter there is a big board notice stating if you have traveled abroad
or have symptoms

DON'T COME IN...

Yeah.. I'm sure we can trust folks in our town
to be intelligent, responsible, and considerate enough to comply...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 10:52 AM

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 09:57 AM

Pwaaaaahaaaahaaagh Mossback! Brilliant! I actually love the song from Spamalot, same scene but made into a musical:

"I am not yet dead, I can dance and I can sing.
I am not yet dead, I can do the Highland Fling.
I am not yet dead, no need to go to bed,
No need to call the doctor cos I'm NOT YET DEAD!"

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 09:37 AM

we really should know how and where cremation will take place and how bodies will be transported

Easy! HERE YOU GO

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:54 AM

I've read recently that one step further than woodland burials,
a new eco friendly trend trying to be established,
is processing human corpses for compost...

I'm quite interested...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

I've mentioned this before, but some years ago our local crem. held open days for people to come and see exactly how the procedure was carried out. They told us that any valuable metal (gold fillings, hip replacements etc) got melted during cremation and the resulting lumps were sold off to add to their income.
The coffins were burned to ashes, which struck me at the time as an awful waste.
I've chosen a nearby 'Bluebell Wood', created especially for natural burials without a coffin, where silver birch trees and bluebells are planted among the dead, with no memorials or gravestones.
I don't know how this would serve with Corona virus victims though.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 08:09 AM

I'm hoping in the years of recovery post corona,
that his pandemic finally puts an end to things I've never liked..

Primarily hand shakes, social kissing, and boring expensive social gatherings..

My life already functions comfortably enough on self isolation...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:22 AM

Staggered funerals could be the answer. Two or three minute time slots could allocated for paying respects. As the immediate family have finished, the out-of-town aunties/uncles/cousins could each take it in turn, followed by friends, neighbours, colleagues, etc. Queuing could be reduced by allowing small groups, who are already in direct contact with each other, to visit together and by strict control of the appointment times.

Consoling hugs would be virtual, via social media

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 07:05 AM

The death rate globally is 3.4
I believe without adequate testing of the rate of actual infection is far too low, causing an appearence of a high death rate.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:53 AM

I've just found out that the brass 'andles (and even gold teeth and other bionic bits, but not pacemakers) go into the cremation chamber. It's an interesting subject but I'm just off to find something to cheer meself back up...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:51 AM

Hahahaa Steve! They could sing, 'Abide With Me' but their poor hands would end up with dermatitis after being washed...and washed...and washed... for the duration of all five dreary, slow verses.
At the Norfolk & Norwich hospital last year, they actually had to use a meat refrigeration lorry parked outside the mortuary door in which to store all the accumulated corpses during the flu epidemic. There was an outcry at the indignity of it, but as you say, one can't leave bodies just lying around rotting slowly away.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:35 AM

Catching a disease from the corpse is not the problem with funerals. Rather, gathering together with much weeping and wailing and the resulting consoling hugs is the cause for concern during an epidemic.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:31 AM

Then there's that question I always ask meself at every funeral: are the brass 'andles recycled? Hmm, hard surfaces... the crem attendants must have to wash their hands after unscrewing them...but not simultaneously singing Happy Birthday in the circs...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:25 AM

...Well my initial look-up was on funerals.org. They should know, one suspects... Bacteria and viruses that cause disease (as opposed to decomposers, which are a smell threat rather than a health threat) generally can't survive more than a few hours in a dead body (HIV may be a rare exception). When I come to put on my biologist hat and think about it, I'd say that most pathogens can thrive only at or near body temperature, and death shuts off that avenue of opportunity for them. And as, at least in the west, there's generally an interval of several days or weeks between death and the funeral, a funeral of a corona virus victim, sad though it would be, need not accumulate any further concerns. In m'humble, of course...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:05 AM

"it would be absolute insanity to have a funeral for anyone known to have the virus."

So what do we do, leave them lying around...?

Actually, I'll have to look up how long a corpse can still be infectious. Viruses can propagate only inside living cells as far as I know. Of course, the dead body will harbour viruses on its surface for a little while, I suppose. I'm off to check this out...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 06:00 AM

I wonder if my spray cans of alcohol based electrical contact cleaner like servisol
are any use...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 03:24 AM

The main thing in hand sanitizer is alcohol.

Such is the nature of the average ignoramus today. I went looking for hand sanitizer dispensers and found a 3 foam anti-bacterial bottles on the reduced shelf (my local small supermarket), bought two. Given the way the public react, why sell them cheap?

Then looked for the alcohol gel versions and drew a blank but there were plenty of surgical spirit bottles, and there are spray bottles on sale elsewhere. Bought 2.

Mind you, the antibacterial handwash I found was the last one. It is easier and cleaner than a bar of soap, so even though it won't kill a virus, it will give it a hard time.

There is an analogy when explaining plane crashes that describes multiple layers of protection that have holes in them, and in normality the next layer protects. But when the holes line up you have a problem.
Looking for holes we have: austerity, with economies over-leveraged, low interest rates to tackle a depression (still), we have Trump/Boris, we have uncontrolled fires, we have floods. Now COVID-19 is finding the weaknesses.................

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 03:08 AM

It never rains,but it pours.
Below was a concern even before the globalised virus hit.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/policymakers-worry-china-drug-exports-088126
I wonder how long UK emergency stockpiles of essential pharmaceuticals will last?

I suspect the link below is a bit OTT but the questions raised are valid
I am not sure I believe the percentages quoted,it seems very high.
https://journal-neo.org/2020/02/25/globalization-and-our-precarious-medical-supply-chains/

It seems the holy grail of globalisation has a way of biting you on the arse.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:12 AM

it would be absolute insanity to have a funeral for anyone known to have the virus. we really should know how and where cremation will take place and how bodies will be transported. as for ordinary funerals, probably no worse than going to other church services etc. people could be asked not to hug and kiss and to spread themselves apart. someone could be at door with lysol wipes for handles etc.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Mar 20 - 01:00 AM

A final cheerful thought before bedtime..

If as anticipated corona does cull a significant percentage
of our mudcat age demographic..

and our calendars become overbooked with funeral invites..

How sensible are funerals going to be
as very obvious potential situations for further disease spreading...???

Funerals over skype...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 06:54 PM

They were more rough than intended. I apologize for that.

What is Panic?

Panic is divesting
Panic is doing a bucket list
Panic is a Wall Street habit
Panic is an immobilizing depression...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 04:45 PM

No I'm not OK with your "jokes." And stick to astrophysics is my advice. And even then...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 04:24 PM

Steve my species remark is just a passing thought in the WC scenario.
Yeah you'll say water closet and I say worst case. Absolutely no research went into my remark, but I'll bet a shilling others have.
You do have a searching mind, no doubt about that. How far down the rabbit hole we look is probably our main difference. You went places I didn't go and vice versa. You OK about the jokes? No harm intended.


In Washington State 8 deaths would statistically indicate ~1000 infections.
The viral bloom won't be worth chasing once it is everywhere

robo I knew you asked a casual rhetorical quetion :^/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:20 PM

Yesterday 37 infected, today as of 2pm 51 have tested positive out of 13,911

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 02:32 PM

In UK news today, a passer-by found box loads of Syrian hamsters dumped over a hedge..

I wonder if the callous ex owner heard Syrian refugees might be corona carriers
and panicked...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 02:18 PM

Just now, like within the last ten minutes, a regular Starbucks goer and a well known community member came up to me and said there were (large number over 1K) coronavirus deaths in WA state. I noted that he passed this off as a new fact. I asked him where he heard it at the same time as I did a search on the internet. He said he'd heard it on FOX (TV) news. I could not verify any of this and made sure he was aware. He was also conflating coronavirus with flu which people are doing because of the description of symptoms. But his blithe passing this off uncritically is a sign of the way things are going with people and the spread of factoids vis web. And he's not even Donuel. He asked me on a scale of 1 to 10 I how concerned was I. And I said for today I'm at 1. If I learn that anyone I know knows someone who's got the coronavirus (which is not the same thing as flu) I'll jump it to 2.5. If I hear that anyone in Alaska has been diagnosed, maybe a 2.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:48 PM

what about "Germ Free Adolescents" by X-Ray Spex

that'll take about 3 minutes to sing..

as long as no copyright snitches are listening...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:48 PM

Well, Donuel, who knows whether H.sapiens managed to do away with the other species. And who knows whether those other species might not also have been vulnerable to Corona virus... As the virus apparently got to us from an animal source scarcely related to humans, I have a feeling that you are well wide of the mark, just as you are with your desire for a universal vaccine. One key to varying susceptibilities to pathogens is genetic variation, a characteristic with which humans are abundantly blessed. Thank God we're not all one clone, eh? I'd hate to think that I'd share any more of your characteristics than I absolutely had to...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:34 PM

Phew, that's a relief, Maggie. I feel that you've just saved my life...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:24 PM

Steve, you are free from copyright breach on the song as a mnemonic hand-washing device; copyright expired in 2016.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 01:09 PM

Food distribution and keeping vital services running will be the main concern of government

You might have thought that, but this is the government that gave us Brexit you're talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 12:50 PM

I have an appointment on Thursday at the surgery with the Practice Nurse to check my BP and have some blood tests.
They've got one of those daft touch-screen things where you check in. I shall feign idiocy and merely announce my arrival orally at the Receptionist's counter.
I'm not touching that thing - it's probably riddled with germs and they don't sanitise it after every patient do they?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 12:42 PM

Everyone just needs to calm down a bit

Uk Government announces new measures to ensure calm

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 12:32 PM

In the meantime 80% of the time when somone is infected they won't even know.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 12:24 PM

Robomatic, YOUR QUESTION IS VALID. Just like the flu is endemic every winter season, Corona virus has a similar potential to always be among us. It is NOT likely Covid 19 could be eternally endemic.
There is hope we will eventually create a one vaccine - cures all flu mutations.
As long as we dare speak of worst case scenarios remember we as human beings have reduced ourselves down to only one species. Many millenia ago we had 4 or 5 different human species. Most outbreaks are species specific.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 12:01 PM

Oh will it never end?

I used to save the environment and 10 whole cents by bringing my own mug into Starbucks. Was just informed that now it must be sanitized by Starbucks personnel first. Even If I've already done. . . because how can they know?

I believe that this may have happened eventually, but is brought to currency by current events. Or is it just Super Tuesday?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 11:15 AM

Or you could sing it to Hubert Blaine Wolfe­schlegel­stein­hausen­berger­dorff Sr., a German-born American typesetter...You'd have to be respectful and sing "Happy birthday dear Mr Wolfe­schlegel­stein­hausen­berger­dorff Sr.", not "Hubert..."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 11:13 AM

It is still early days. Real preppers would have topped off their supplies at the first rumours of a pandemic.
Conspiracy theories as to the origin of this plague do nothing to lessen the impact of what is very real, and among us.
By the time sufficient numbers fall ill for a pandemic to be declared, and compulsory control measures put in place, it will be too late for panic buying. Food distribution and keeping vital services rumnning will be the main concern of government, should the numbers infected rise significantly. Most will be able to self medicate and swallow a few aspirin. It is those with pneumonia and other complications that will quickly swamp those intensive care facilities able to aid reoxygenation of blood. If 6000 acute beds exist in the UK what percentage are equipped with ventilators and similar equipment?
The BMJ is giving free online access to corona virus material. Why rely on rumours when expert information is available?
If we are lucky this will merely be a dry run for a future event, but I suspect it will be a very changed world by the end of March. The numbers in the next few days will give an indication

An interesting read below,especially the comment concerning the graphical reppresentation of the rate of spread.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/23/what-happens-if-a-pandemic-hits/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 11:10 AM

Subject it to Amazing Slow Downer, of course. Tsk.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 11:03 AM

Yes but they did not tell us what name to use when singing Happy Birthday. What if you use a name that is too short and die as a result of not washing your hands for that extra second or two?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 11:03 AM

What BPM are we meant to sing it...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 10:59 AM

There's blanket coverage here telling us to not panic. So we're all panicking.

Oh, and you've got to sing Happy Birthday twice whilst washing your hands to make sure you do it for long enough. I'm weighing up whether to get Coronavirus or to go to jail for copyright breach...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 09:38 AM

There was prepper buying at big box Costco stores best suited for stocking up but media is not showing it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 09:33 AM

I have enough food to last for a while, but it's nice to know there are some benefits to being a hermit.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 09:31 AM

The main thing in hand sanitizer is alcohol. You can probably find some of that. (I don't think it's effective when taken internally.)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 08:50 AM

Forget two for one specials. Inventoy is low so there are TWO IN ONE specials.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 08:37 AM

pfr I will try to walk back the conspiratorial musings but what will it accomplish? Will it lessen a hatred of the powers that be that you already dislike/distrust?

Yes an outbreak is a media goldmine that keeps giving. Why wouldn't it be?

Our collective nature has a deny first quality. This happened in China first. Yes time and opportunities were lost. The same here.
The budget to fight and isolate outbreaks wasn't just decimated it was cut by a third. We seem to be in a CANCEL Culture.

I wrote right here 20 years ago of threats to civilization. There are many. I was critisized for doing so. Now Murdoch owns TV stations that always play end of world shows. But this is not the end of the world, Not even close.

Regarding bio weaponry the haunting question that was asked many times was 'what if we weaponied the common cold'? Nature does things better than man when it comes to DNA life or 'half alive' RNA.
It is possible we did it or nature did it. How will that help people of retirement age today?

What are the benefits of this outbreak? There are some. NOT Caring for the old and infirm does save money and resources like pushing grandpa out to sea on a ice flow.

It is of no use to investigate that now whether it is all unadultrated BULL SHIT or not..

I can't think of one thing a conspiracy theory will help except horror stories at night while camping.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 07:46 AM

Reusable body bags would be more eco-friendly and pro life...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 07:40 AM

No coughing while panic buying please. Would that be a bag for life?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 07:33 AM

I might nip into the local undertakers
to see if they start running any buy one get one free promotions,
if we book in advance...

I'm in the 60 - 70 risk group.. my mum is 87...

My mrs aint 60 just yet, so she's still young enough
to take care of the arrangements...

Coffin panic buying - I'd always be happier with a cheap disposable body bag anyway...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 07:18 AM

Crowd of about ten people in an otherwise quiet Bude Morrison's this morning, staring blankly like zombies at the stripped-bare hand-sanitizer shelf. I should have guessed when I saw 'em. It's started... [Note to self: Must panic-buy some Heinz beanz urgently...oven chips...fish fingers...]

I'm still panic-buying Prosecco, as it comes from the Veneto in northern Italy. D'you think I should spray the bottles with Dettox...? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 05:57 AM

At a time when we are spoiled for choice with internet conspiracy theories,
I wonder how we would deal with this if there had been a worldwide media blackout
regarding Corona...???


What if we the public had been protected from news which causes alarm and panic...???

Would we just face up to and deal with what we'd think as a very nasty worse than usual flu outbreak...???

Who knows, but decisions were made for whatever vested interests and hidden agendas
to make such a big media event of this...


It certainly seems to have put a lid on mass protests in Hong Kong, fer instance...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 05:48 AM

Iains said, "It does not require much to create supply chain dislocations, for whatever reason."

In Australia, after the prolonged drought, then bushfires and then floods, our supply chain is already in a very low state. The COVID19 issues may just be the tipping point for us.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 04:35 AM

Chatted with my sis on the phone yesterday, and she told me she's one among only five retired docs in her area with the necessary experience in ITU. She's ready to help if needed, and as she points out, it will be the 'frontline' employed docs who are at risk from infection and who will need replacing from the Oldies' Army.
She's remarkably strong and feisty for her age and I reckon she could do it. But it is worrying nevertheless.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:55 AM

Backwoodman you are correct. However the problem is numerical. Facilities for those with severe respiratory problems are very limited. If numbers infected developing complications spiral those facilities will be swamped.
Interesting how many passenger cancellations are occurring, leading to many grounded flights.
It is still too soon to predict how it will all pan out.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:49 AM

Those stats from a BBC reporter on ‘Breakfast’ this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:37 AM

In the interests of balance and proportion - seasonal Influenza kills an average of 17,000 people per year in England alone (that’s England alone, not the entire UK - Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland ‘flu deaths aren’t included in that number), and around 500,000 - half a million - worldwide.

Covid-19 has a way to go, it would seem. Watch this space....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 03:36 AM

From the gruniard. It must be right
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/03/scott-morrison-calls-for-calm-as-coronavirus-prompts-panic-buying-at-supermarkets

I noticed powdered milk was out of stock where I shop, also handgel and wipes.

Mormons are supposed to stockpile food for one year. Not a bad idea.
It is estimated that the meals in the United States travel about 1,500 miles to get from farm to plate. It does not require much to create supply chain dislocations, for whatever reason.
Lack of widgets from Wuhan is but the tip of the iceburg.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Mar 20 - 02:32 AM

The WHO is still declaring coronavirus an epidemic.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 10:15 PM

Petty minded folks always seem to get disgusted the most...???

It's healthier to be sneered at than sneezed at...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 10:08 PM

Yep - my funny bone was tickled by your mushed up link, mg. LOL


widespread testing matters

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 10:00 PM

i hope this tickles your fhttps://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161824/coronavirus-death-life-care-washington-testing-surveillanceunny bone.

what is very concerning is the high ratio of possible or suspected cases in a population both of elderly patients and working age staff.

I think sneering at this when people are dying is disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 09:44 PM

middle school game was in oregon i think but patient is in walla walla washington hospital.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 09:11 PM

Yes. Pandemic. Spreading rapidly where I live. Port towns, lots of travelers. Lots of sea traffic. Lots of air traffic. Homeless on buses will spread if they get it, and I have a handicapped brother who works in a homeless shelter. King County buying motel for people who have it and must be quarantined. Middle school basketball event somewhere in washington, confirmed case. School staff member in Oregon near Portland I believe a confirmed case. You can wait until you are totally sure you know what you are talking about, or you can report what you hear. Either way there are problems. The truth will be wrapped in a thousand rumers, but that is the way it always is. Our source of truth in USA is being tampered with. Word of mouth will get it wrong quite often, but also get it right. Like I said, if we waited until 100% sure of everything, spread would be probably ten times as high.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 07:51 PM

"rumor has it.. no idea if true or not.. another rumor.. something.. think.. may or may not.. under suspicion..."

yeahh.. we get the drift..

PANICDEMIC...!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 07:38 PM

rumor has it we have one locally. no idea if true or not. was another rumor a person a bit aways from here was traveling and got something. think entire fire crew of kirkland wa usa is quarantined because they visited the nursing home that may or may not have it. many patients and staff under suspicion.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 07:38 PM

rumor has it we have one locally. no idea if true or not. was another rumor a person a bit aways from here was traveling and got something. think entire fire crew of kirkland wa usa is quarantined because they visited the nursing home that may or may not have it. many patients and staff under suspicion.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 05:13 PM

6 deaths from Covid 19 in Washington State sugests 300 more with the virus but they report only 16 infections. Downplaying and filtering information is a terrible thing to do. Mr. Pense you are a bad man.
Of course a virtual inability to adequately test is the reason for the confusion.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 05:11 PM

Good one, pfr!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 04:07 PM

pandemic.. panicdemic...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 03:42 PM

Mr Red. I never thought of that when I used the log-in tablet at the blood donation centre last week. I'll have to remember to use the hand sanitiser before and after I use it next time.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 03:27 PM

now that is pro active

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 03:25 PM

take your own wipes and wipe touchscreens, toilet handles, etc. yourself. I know there will be valid complaints from people with chemical sensitivities, but these items are or should be disinfected anyway. Use a standard brand. Anytime you are in a food place or store where they provide wipes, use those wipes. I ask the bus drivers if I can wipe down the handles and poles etcc. and they say yes. Wiped down some at church yesterday mostly outside rails

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 02:32 PM

I went to the dentist last week, log-in is a touch-screen. Doctor's is too (when you can get an appointment). &............

A friend asks the desk to log-in at the hospital, and despite remonstrations from the receptionist pointing at a machine, she asks "when it was last cleaned". She gets her way, playing the greycard!
I am going to use my smart phone dabber in future, and swab it as often as my hands.

Well? If you want to find a virus, the best place is where all the viruscated sufferers congregate. Hospital.

On the plus side, we should all try and pay with contactless debt (sic) cards. Lets face it, who disinfects cash?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 01:06 PM

Coronavirus COVID-19 has begun spreading in Australia. So, what happens now?

"As Australians are urged to stop shaking hands to reduce the coronavirus risk, authorities are now considering more extreme prevention measures such as bans on large gatherings."

Not shaking hands will be a difficult habit to break for some people. It's an automatic response for people in business or public office.

And, after I posted yesterday saying that I hadn't seen anyone wearing a face mask, I did see one person when I went to the shops later in the morning.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM

As of 9am this morning, 4 further patients in England have tested positive for COVID-19.

All 4 patients had recently travelled from Italy. The patients are from Hertfordshire, Devon and Kent. All are being investigated and contact tracing has begun.

The total number of confirmed cases in England is now 37. Following previously reported confirmed cases in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland, the total number of UK cases is 40.

My old school was shut today for at least a week after one teacher tested positive on Sunday. (never had that sort of luck when I was there, or my father)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 08:24 AM

Right now Axios is reporting a small part of the story but is still in the process of double sourcing. All they have now is a report to Washington from an inspector.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 06:11 AM

Due to a contamination of the Atlanta CDC location, no testing kits will be made there now. Whoops si daisy

when this comes out, sewerage will hit the ventilation system.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 04:36 AM

Dear mod, it's perfectly fine for you to delete posts. But do be kind enough to allow me to say that the stereotype about all Aussie men and beer that you appear to not want challenged is unjustified and untrue. I speak from first-hand experience of having visited Australia and having mixed with plenty of Aussie men. I'm pretty sure that if I came out with unjustified stereotyping of women you'd be down on me like a ton of bricks. Kindly reflect.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:41 PM

Iains posts are lately quite factual but fair and balanced.
I think Mossback has an internet personna thing happenin.

sneezing is not symptom

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:30 PM

Never let the facts get in the way of a good insult Mossback.

Your factual inadequacy is showing again.

SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome)

Geographical distribution

The distribution is based on the 2002–2003 epidemic. The disease appeared in November 2002 in the Guangdong province of southern China. This area is considered as a potential zone of re-emergence of SARS-CoV.


COVID19
• A pneumonia of unknown cause detected in Wuhan, China was first reported to the WHO Country Office in China on 31 December 2019.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:25 PM

And now Scotland has its first case, in Tayside (where my sister lives!). She'd better don a Hazmat suit and get to work.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 04:09 PM

My sister has just told me that the government is going to ask retired doctors who are trained in pulmonary procedures etc to come forward, don a Hazmat suit and do 24 hour shifts at their local hospital if/when the 'pandemic' strikes. She's a retired anaesthetist, so will be much in demand for this work, but it will be very tiring for her.

Also, her local church is considering not offering the chalice around during Communion, as most of the communicants are elderly and vulnerable.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 03:19 PM

Walky - yeah, I know, that sky channel is one of our favourites..
because of the two monthly sumo tournaments...

Fascinating nation, with more than it's fair share of disasters...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 03:05 PM

Sorry, typo: it should have read "but I think all Aussie males consume - or at least know about - a slab of beer."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 03:03 PM

Slabs of beer are a very common animal downunder. Well it is here in the coal mining area historically populated by Welsh miners, but I think all Aussie males consume - or at least know what about - a slab of beer.

There has been excellent media coverage in Australia by the national ABC News - that's Australian ABC, not American.

One of the key points being emphasised is that the people who have died from COVID19 had prior health issues. This was the same with the SARS virus.

I have seen no panic buying here, and I have heard nothing about it in the media. I have seen no face masks here in Newcastle, although they may be being used in capital cities, and probably at airports etc.

Our first death was reported yesterday. It was a man who had been on the Diamond Princess cruise which was quarantined in Japan last month.

John Donne:

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

Coincidentally, I just finished reading a book by Major Edward Dames and in one chapter he was writing about biological warfare allegedly conducted by Russia. He stated his opinion that if Russia wanted to start a war against China it would have more chance with biological warfare than by simply sending in armies. Interesting that both SARS and COVID19 started in China. (Please note, I took a lot of what Major Dames said with a good dose of healthy analytical and balanced scepticism.)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:41 PM

...it's on Sky channel 507, where they have some excellent documentaries, as well as periodic news bulletins and today they mentioned as above on Sumo.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 02:10 PM

Walky - I checked NHK app a day or two ago
and couldn't find any mention..

The audience is as much a part of the fun as the wrestling..

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:48 PM

For northern Italy on Feb 21 the number of confirmed cases was 17. Yesterday it was 1,128, with 29 possible virus-linked deaths.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-29/italy-s-total-known-coronavirus-infections-top-1-000-cases

This perfectly illustrates the problem for governments. A number of horses must be allowed to bolt before public opinion allows the stable door to be bolted. This is a judgement call almost certain to be proved too late.
We shall see.
From the wall street journal a week ago:
"Schools are closed and gatherings are banned as Italy reports a sixth virus-related death"

One disconcerting fact that has come to light is that a person who is asymptomatic may be shedding the virus and could make others ill. How often asymptomatic transmission is occurring is unclear.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:43 PM

PFR - as I enjoy watching NHK World, I can give you an update on your beloeved Sumo: the next big tournament is to be held but without an audience and, if any contestant fails a test, they will cancel the whole event.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:42 PM

Bugger it.. just as I feared.. coughs and diarrhea at the same time...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:18 PM

CORONOVIRUS SYMPTOMS

Fever
Tiredness
Dry cough
Mild aches and pains
Nasal congestion
Runny nose
Sore throat
Diarrhea




The US has the unique added problem of the right/Trump saying the left and media have weaponized the virus which causes a special psychological association and demonizing ones nejghbor.

If you get it early the symptoms won't wipe you out as a rule but the small chance of severe complicatios is 20 times more likely than the flu. One a 1-10 scale a 2 would not include fever or chills or aches .
Some of us won't personally know anyone who died except for celebrities.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:18 PM

Iains - see my post


Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:18 PM

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:03 PM

I see Verhoftwat is worried that Erdogan has allowed numerous refugees to escape into Europe. Will this include Isis carrying the corona 19 virus?

https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US-military-in-Iraq-and-Middle-East-prepare-for-coronavirus-threat-618769


https://www.hstoday.us/subject-matter-areas/counterterrorism/isis-lauds-death-and-terror-of-coronavirus-oubreak/
and for the tin hat conspiracy theorists
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/u-s-intel-agencies-warned-rising-risk-outbreak-coronavirus-n1144891

Just as well we kept out of the Schengen area This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,

The remainiacs would have left us with wide open borders, but eventually, after 3.5 years of strife, we regained our sovereignty.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 01:01 PM

Hahahaa! Reminds me of the jam butty mines of Knotty Ash!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:53 PM

I asked her..
Nope, she's not familiar with it either.
So she googled, and it turns out to be an Aussie slang import..

Over here slabs will be more associated with the older morbid meaning
as the pandemic spreads further...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:42 PM

Well it’s unknown to me, and I’ve never heard it referred as such to in my part of The Backwoods. But I’m not a boozer, so....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:41 PM

My mrs is a valleys girl.. I'll ask her...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:31 PM

A 'slab' is a colloquial term for a flat package of canned beers (usually 24, but sometimes fewer).
I hadn't realised that the term was unknown elsewhere (if that is the 'case').

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:23 PM

LOL pfr! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM

Slabs of Welsh beer are hewn from underground beer seams..
Tiles of lighter ales are hacked out from beer quarries...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 11:48 AM

”Yesterday I went to Tesco and bought two slabs of beer and three of cider.”

Is beer in slabs a Cardiff thing? Everywhere else I know, beer comes in bottles, cans, or draught.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 11:38 AM

that was my guess before I went to bed..
probably nearer 70 - 100 tomorrow...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 11:24 AM

Coronavirus: 12 more cases confirmed in UK, taking total in Britain to 35 – latest updates from the gruniard - presumably not everything they print is false news.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:59 AM

"Panic buying", or at least "laying in supplies" has already started.
Yesterday I went to Tesco and bought two slabs of beer and three of cider.
Of course, my purchases weren't based on any virus, but Wales introduces a new 50p per unit (of alcohol) minimum pricing tomorrow ;)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:48 AM

Social distancing will be a coming source of more disputes if one is even slightly bumped. A resulting fist fight will be judged too costly by both parties.

So far Iran has the worst outbreak. It does make one go to conspiracies sadly.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 10:19 AM

Upon reading this thead twice I found that I said the same thing as Backwoodsman, "there are worse things than Covid 19 like mass shootings..." but his way of saying it was pointed to the point of breaking the skin of nationality. These are the days of going over the top, quick to anger and slow to forgive. Still there is more wisdom here than other places on the internet that goes straight to death threats at the drop of a hat.

So far I have found that correcting normal behavior of the past to the brave new world of pandemic changes, has been met with mixed results. I have seen no obvious changes in supplies. The recession is too far ahead to see at this time.

An eventual vaccine will be memorable. I remember the line for the polio vaccine went outside the school for a quarter mile.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 09:00 AM

From: Donuel - PM
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 05:42 AM

Demise by despair (drugs, guns and suicide) is a catastrophe and is endemic in the US. Portugal has better numbers and policies than the US. The UK has better numbers and policies over guns . Numbers change when people change.

Leave it to say Backwoodsman, we are amused at different things.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:29 AM

”I hear the malevalence in the written voices of some Brits expressing a deep seated predjudice against Aericans/yanks losing their shit. Perhaps in vino veritas. Alcohol changes voices on a Saturday night.
So be it.”

Alcohol doesn’t change my voice on a Saturday night or, for that matter, at any time. I haven’t consumed alcohol since 21st December, 2005 - not a single mouthful.

The USA has an ongoing epidemic of deaths by shooting. Only a fool would try to deny that fact.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:26 AM

If France has banned large crowds with 43 cases of the lurgy perhaps the UK with only half the number should ban small crowds as well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 06:10 AM

Backwoodsman doesn't drink and it ill-behoves you to make assumptions about anyone's posts being alcohol-fuelled unless you're sat next to them seeing them drinking or unless they tell you that they're drinking. You're a disgrace, aren't you.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 05:42 AM

Demise by despair (drugs, guns and suicide) is a catastrophe and is endemic in the US. Portugal has better numbers and policies than the US. The UK has better numbers and policies over guns . Numbers change when people change.

I hear the malevalence in the written voices of some Brits expressing a deep seated predjudice against Aericans/yanks losing their shit. Perhaps in vino veritas. Alcohol changes voices on a Saturday night.
So be it.

Mr. Red, my point is that as individuals we can only change ouselves. I have no say over Turkey. Thanks for being level headed.

For those who want revenge or blame or punative satisfaction, think twice, cooler heads often prevail.

If any/all of us get sick it is better sooner than later, while hospitals are not overwhelmed if needed.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 05:17 AM

Based on the World Health Organization’s declaration that this is a public health emergency of international concern, the UK Chief Medical Officers have raised the risk to the UK from low to moderate.(29th Feb.)10,483 people have been tested in the UK, of which 10,460 were confirmed negative and 23 positive.

France, with 42 cases, bans gatherings of more than 5,000 due to coronavirus (Reuters)

I wonder when the supermarkets start having panic buying?(apart from Oz, where allegedly it is already happening)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 05:04 AM

Quite amusing to hear of Americans losing their shit over one Coronavirus death, while the average of 55 shooting-deaths per day that’s gone on for years and years passes straight over their gun-nut heads.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Mar 20 - 04:20 AM

a bin of bulk licorice candy at the store.

Yea I was going to point out that a UK store (Wilko) that has taken the dead mantle shed by the demise of Woolworths UK and with it the most iconic brand to its bosom.

Pick 'n Mix Sweets

How's that for spreading viruses from kiddies mitts?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 08:01 PM

Wow. an actual death in the USA. Well that should focus your minds. 3000 have died in foreign countries, chaps. But at least they weren't Americans, eh? Reminds me of those spoof headlines we sometimes see that aren't actually far from the truth, "Two Britons and 288 foreigners killed in plane crash," or "Fog in English Channel: continent cut off..."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 06:30 PM

and NO he did not knuckle under like reports suggest.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 05:53 PM

My wife's boss

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 02:03 PM

And now, a death in the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 01:46 PM

Changing the subject back to the actual subject..

[howzat for thread drift...!!!???]

Headlines are emerging about infected people passing the virus to their pets...

..basically it seems worldwide govt strategies to limit routes of infection are f@cked...??????????

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 01:29 PM

Not that I want this thread to degenerate into recriminations and accusations,
So why so post insults? You offer an extremely fertile field for retaliation should one have the inclination.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 01:13 PM

Not that I want this thread to degenerate into recriminations and accusations, I saw Inane pick his nose and wipe it on a Daily Mail magazine rack and Mr. Ted plunged his bare dirty hands into a bin of bulk licorice candy at the store.

New rules people, com'on

Watch and revise your own habits.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 08:15 AM

Not that want this to spiral in to xenophbia & accusations thereof but:

I heard on the BBC news just that Turkey had stated it was opening its borders to migrants seeking to get to Europe.

Given that there is barely enough governance in Syria and Iran has recorded COVID-19 this is clearly a vector that will have a very poor audit trail.

Have a happy Leap Day!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 07:08 AM

Yes, there are a couple posting above.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 05:51 AM

Some people are beyond redemption or any kind of empathy, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 05:37 AM

I would never wish ill-health on anybody, but if someone I don't like, Trump for example, got ill I'd be inclined to wish them an exceptionally gradual recovery...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 03:37 AM

”I have also thought that your Trumpty-Dumpty might pick it up from his visit to Asia.”

We can but hope, Helen - fingers and toes crossed! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 09:28 PM

I saw some news footage of the Pope and a small child held up by its parents to greet him.

That's exactly what I thought of when I saw it. He is risking his health.

I have also thought that your Trumpty-Dumpty might pick it up from his visit to Asia.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 07:34 PM

The Japanese March Sumo Wrestling Tournament
is under consideration for postponement/cancellation..

What'll we do for 15 evenings...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 06:48 PM

The Pope presided over ash wednesday and now has a bad cold.
His events are canceled next week.

He should visit Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 06:18 PM

Yes, an Italian brought it into Nigeria. I feel that if it took a hold in the poorer African countries, there's be utter carnage, as medical facilities and basic care are negligible.
Sadly I can't see it avoiding Africa as there will be travellers passing in and out, and the major cities there are thronged with people out in the streets. Hygiene is pretty poor anyway, and many of the people are not in perfect health.
Same applies to India I expect.
My husband is very worried for his huge family in Abidjan.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 06:07 PM

You say that but it's in sub-Saharan Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 05:01 PM

This virus doesn't seem to like warmer weather...maybe as the northern hemisphere moves into spring its spread will slow down..?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 03:47 PM

USA has quarantine laws. It is not as heavy handed as China.
Trump may deal with immigrants in a facsist manner but pulling over a US trucker, telling him to abandon his load and come with us, is just not going to happen. Jack your data is wierd to me.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 02:58 PM

America will not shut down like China and Japan. Only China can.

And what does an American city look like on public holidays?

The US is a world leader in shutting public facilities down.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 01:36 PM

2020 has got to be the wake up call for the airlines and international tourist travel industry..

The healthy eco friendly future for us Brits
has to be rediscovering grotty seaside caravan parks and holiday camps...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 01:23 PM

My poor sister had a cruise booked for early May around the Med. It was to be with one of her daughters, her daughter's friend and her mother.
They'd spent hours choosing/booking trips from the ship to Barcelona and various other interesting places, including in Italy.
Now of course, flights are threatening to cancel, and even the cruise looks as if it won't happen.
She's so disappointed, but in my view the travel firms are right.
Better to stay put until all this is a thing of the past, and travel picks up again. Feel sorry for her though!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 12:14 PM

I was in Finance in my twenties (I left for ethical reasons and the firm went bust later) and my wife is a Phd senior health economist for the Federal Government.

America will not shut down like China and Japan. Only China can. Schools will not close before Summer. When more people are outside and not in rooms, the contagion will SLOW>
Cooler heads will prevail. The confusion and uncertainty here is due to leadership. As new rules become apparent the economy will settle. Much of yeterday's reaction was from 'automated' sell off triggers. When humans are back in charge things will improve. Lots of refinancing will happen for large corporations with debt.



Long term this will last over a year but corporations are in good shape. Money has no where else to go but here. The short term will be a challenge
but if you are moderately prepared you should only be inconvienenced. Shortages will only increase demands. If you are wealthy do not not buy the dips. Wait a month.
Travel and leisure will suffer more than food. Take a 20 year postion that seems good to you for your kids but don't risk it all.
   

Now the human toll: It will be spread out as to seem less severe than it may be in reality. Even 1919 fatality rates are doubled in estimations.
Mass hysteria seems like somthing out of your hands but your own confidence makes a differnce. We all know for whom the bell tolls and the sadness of grim times.
In short this is not Armeggedon unless an irrational leader sabotages our recovery - which is not impossible but unlikely.

If anyone Says they know the bottom or that this will disappear, they are liars.


btw the firm that went bust was Bear Stearns (BS) which is funny to me.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 12:08 PM

Nobody this patriotic could ever be a terrorist, surely?...

the Geri Halliwell approach

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 12:06 PM

Lol

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 12:02 PM

Tee shirt slogan - "I must rush to the shops and buy up everything now, before all the stupid panic buyers beat me to it...!!!."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 11:48 AM

Jack is right up to a point where bacterial pnumonia sets in after viral infection and is the actual cause of death. At best it helps heal, at worst Amoxicilin buys time. Any wide spectrum AB is worth a shot when indicated.

Actual preppers must feel a sense of great accomplishment, vindication and I told you so's. I have seen many of them over do it. I think sme if them suffer from obcessive compulsive disorder.

FOX is still blaming Dems and vice versa.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 11:46 AM

This going to bugger new anti terror rules banning face covering masks in public...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 11:15 AM

It's that the masks don't work if there is facial hair, ...

No argument there, then - it's pointless in me spending my money on masks. I'm not going to lose the beard.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 10:01 AM

It's that the masks don't work if there is facial hair, not that they work without it necessarily...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 09:35 AM

Augmentin is utterly useless against viruses.

Home delivery is likely to spread the disease even faster than shopping. Firms like Amazon will not pay their workers to stay at home if they get worrying symptoms. They'll have to come in to work no matter what. Coughing all over your parcels before they ship them out. A conscientious driver (with targets to meet) will then easily manage to get them to you while the virus is still viable.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 09:32 AM

I'm a smart prepper..
I must stockpile strategic emergency essentials now before the massed idiots start panic buying
and there's nothing left on the shop shelves for me...

Cartoon sound FX of scampering out of front door and then car screeching out off into the distance...


hmmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 04:51 AM

All I ask for is football and Prosecco. Naturally, Liverpool are fulfilling my dreams and footie must continue until the few more points they need to win the league are in the bag. Prosecco is a worry as it comes from the Veneto. But, thanks to Lidl's special offer last week, I now have a bottle for every barbecue I'm likely to have this summer...

I have more cheapo baked beans stockpiled than you could shake a stick at. Bring it on, you bloody virus...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 03:41 AM

An interesting read on how the UK government will likely respond, should escalation occur and a pandemic be declared.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/213717/dh_131040.pdf

The sections below in particular spell it out very clearly.
(probably not a good time to be a pensioner or have existing medical conditions - Rationing is brutal!)
6.32 - 6.34
7.26

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 03:07 AM

.. though of course, personally, I wouldn't care if football closed down forever...

I may be with you on that page, but it is a drug for the UK masses. And what would politicians have to get behind? Pop musicians? Sound familiar?

But I ask, how ya gonna buy food without traveling to crowded shops?
Home delivery? "Just leave it on the doorstep, in the rain. Ta" In the UK invest in Ocado - it didn't take long jump on that bandwagon

And without buying 60 GBP's worth it all puts up the price. Which I predicted, but not via that particular vector. Life is complex, let's face it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 01:40 AM

I think of the video of the children in Iran struggling to breathe with no oxygen equipment and I think of the snearing comments here some have made. I am not referring to silly jokes..that is OK I guess. I mean trying to ridicule and shame people for wanting to be proactive even if it all blows away and we look foolish. I am fine with looking foolish. I am not fine with abuse, especially on such a serious matter..well all abuse is serious.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 28 Feb 20 - 01:24 AM

It says a lot more about the intellectual and psychological capabilities of a person if he can only respond with abusive comments aimed at another person rather than stating reasoned and fact based responses on the subject being discussed.

Incapable, inadequate, and unable to hold his own in a reasonable, evidential discussion.

Is trollery becoming the new pandemic?

Or is it possible to just discuss the topic of the thread?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 11:14 PM

*The supply chain is being measured by the number of import shipping containers excluding cargo planes.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 10:45 PM

additional facts/advice
Dr. Fauci has been silenced by Trump.
N-95 masks do work
HSS whistle blower has been reassigned/punished.
Nothern CA is in fact a hot spot.
I do not know about Seattle infections.
Replacing enough Covid 19 test kits that work is an existential threat
I am still assembling extra Augmentin, so should you to share.
Dispose of one use gloves outside with care.
Complicating matters is the rapidly shrinking supply chain which is already down 33%.
The veneer of civilization will wear thin, act sooner than later.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 09:56 PM

My 30 day warning and the unvarnished truth is all the help I can provide in this format. Read carefully and selectively and there really is some limited help here. I really am at the close nexus of discussions at the NAID NIH and HSS but distant from the CDC.
Knowledge is power, use it and prepare. My apologies to StillySage for not believing the cavalier unprotected nature of infected citizens brought to TX and CA.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 09:21 PM

I would love to get help. Thank you rude one. I would divert it to my handicapped brother who works in a homeless shelter. Or my pregnant niece who works in the most likely hospital in seattle to get it. or my brother who is in charge of maintenance at a county jail.

Do you have anything further rude to say or are you going to escalate to abuse?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 07:58 PM

Thats his version of sarcasm Mossback.
At least he gets it a little bit. He will understand alot more when his grocery store goes empty.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:44 PM

Anyway, yanks. Sod human lives.

When have Trumpshit and the Trumpshitistas ever shown any con concern for human life?? This is a surprise??

Mary, please get help.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:08 PM

I suggest following ret general Russel l honore' on Twitter. Smartest guy around.wish he would accept presidency. None of candidates inspire any confidence in me.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 05:07 PM

Anyway, yanks. Sod human lives. The Dow has tanked. Be very afraid.


What a bloody stink.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 04:57 PM

The one about the feared beard and moustache backlash?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 04:38 PM

Where is my post about the CDC and beards?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 04:15 PM

But you are going to get it and you won't like it.
Disruption will go to disaster.
You may not change but your world has.
Adapt or die.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 04:07 PM

As usual you just don't get it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 04:07 PM

But he has you licked on metaphysics.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM

Stick to cod astrophysics.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 03:35 PM

Oil down 12%, Microsoft down 14%, 10 year bonds all time low.
Equities up 127 % (scavenges defunct business')
Hedge Funds claim tommorrow Fri will be the ultimate market reaction.
Goldman says there will be no earnings this year.

14% of recovered Covid 19 victims test postive again. (ah oh)
rna virus are notorius for mutation but this may mean something else.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 03:02 PM

At the outset it was said "its not just the virus, its the reaction to it".

Nothing is more spooky than the pense power of prayer on the markets.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 02:57 PM

Chill, USAsians! Trumpshit sez its all under control! And science-denier Pence will PRAY the bugs away.

Problem solved.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 02:04 PM

Got to see the funny side, aint’cha?

Yes, Nigel, I realise it’s a spoof website. It’s called ‘humour’.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:41 PM

CHINESE restaurants are empty, Casinos and Theme parks have plunged and container imports are down 30%.
The DOW is on the longest downturn since 2018.

On the bright side buying TESLA at a 30% discount looks good. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:20 PM

Steve - no problems..

on the subject of "screwed eyes"..

Today walked past Boots Opticians, and noticed a big printed sign on the door.
The gist of it was..
if you've just got back from China, or a list of other regions
I couldn't be arsed reading,

"DON'T BOOK AN APPOINTMENT WITH US"...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:20 PM

Talking about your own ass crack, at your weight, it is more of an ass canyon chasm.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:16 PM

If I want to change the subject I'll change the subject. Beats talking obscurantist shite in five posts in a row any day.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:11 PM

No matter how much Steve likes to change the subject...

Thank Goodness Prisons will not become breeding grounds.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 01:04 PM

Sorry, I was screwing my eyes up trying to read the tiny print on my phone in Tesco car park in Truro when I typed that (and misinterpreted your post...) Mrs Steve arrived back at the car, stinking of some perfume she'd just tried on but not bought, so I had to post without a proper review... I spent the next hour and a quarter driving back to Bude swooning as a result of the overpowering whiff...nothing with any kind of scent ever touches my body...

No piercings either, and no tattoos, though I'm thinking of getting an asp tattooed on my back with its forked tongue just lapping the top of my bum crack...Opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 12:58 PM

Coronavirus is a mild illness in four people out of five. It kills about one victim in a hundred (far fewer, I suspect, because it's not unlikely that tens of thousands of people have got it/had it without knowing it).

The World Health Organization (WHO) had mentioned 2% as a mortality rate estimate in a press conference on Wednesday, January29 and again on February 10. However, on January 29 WHO specified that this is a very early and provisional estimate that may change.

and here is some more
cod science

If you want to make sweeping statements try learning how to link. Like below
https://smw.ch/article/doi/smw.2020.20203

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 12:46 PM

Japan’s government closed all schools through March in an effort to combat the outbreak. Iran canceled Friday Prayers in major cities, a cornerstone ritual of the Islamic Republic. Saudi Arabia barred pilgrims from visiting Mecca and Medina. 50 countries have infections.

ONLY RUSSIA CLAIMS NO INFECTIONS!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 11:17 AM

"Nice opportunistic swipe at money-spinnng events"

Steve - eh...???

I was having a sarcastic swipe at Mail writers/readers,
who are taking an opportunistic ideological swipe at Greta
and the positive progressive movement she represents...

It's obvious I was pointing at their hypocrisy about mass public events..



.. though of course, personally, I wouldn't care if football closed down forever...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 11:14 AM

Flu 0.1 % fatal - not 2 not 5.1

The Iran official who was sick AS he tried to minimize the virus on TV is at home and does not have serious symptoms.

Hey, there are worse things like car accidents and gun violence and extremeism.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 10:58 AM

There are hundreds of thousands of case of flu every year. Flu is never a mild illness and kills about two victims in every hundred. Coronavirus is a mild illness in four people out of five. It kills about one victim in a hundred (far fewer, I suspect, because it's not unlikely that tens of thousands of people have got it/had it without knowing it). By all means close schools and cancel football matches in hotspots. Otherwise, give me one rational reason for the suggested panicky overreacting we are getting, even in this thread. Nice opportunistic swipe at money-spinnng events, etc. But you can bet your life that the real reason for the draconian actions of the Chinese regime is a lot more to do with ensuring that their money-spinning capitalist economy doesn't go into free all, and watch that space if the US gets a few more cases...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 09:21 AM

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/dont-answer-the-door-strict-isolation-plan-to-contain-coro
"People with suspected symptoms of the new coronavirus should self-isolate at home, communicate with their family by phone and consider putting a sign on their front door to ward off visitors."

Here we go again!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_cross

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 07:31 AM

pfr:
Could well be right. Once everyone has been exposed we will have the chance to build up a 'herd immunity'. Unfortunately, doing this quickly may overwhelm the healthcare system for a while, and increase the percentage for whom it proves fatal.
Perhaps this has already happened (to some extent) in China. The news was last night that the rate of new cases is rising more quickly outside of China. Perhaps they are reaching saturation.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:49 AM

Once a person becomes infected, rabies is nearly always fatal without treatment. The number of deaths in the United States ranged from 30 to 50 per year in the 1940s but has since dropped to one to three deaths per year due to not poking infected animals with a stick.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:43 AM

Iains - this may be a bit of a fatalistically 'out there' idea..
but maybe we all do need to be exposed to the virus eventually,
over organized co-ordinated stages planned for by region and time...

similar to childhood 'measles parties'...

It's a lottery which of us will survive, but it will get the threat out the way with,
and probably build up a greater level of mass immunisation
before a vaccinate is miraculously discovered
by profiteering pharma corporations...?????????????????????????????????

I emphasise..????????????????????????????????????????????????...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:25 AM

PFR I agree with you.It is akin to poking a bear with a stick. Why do it if there is no compulsion?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 06:16 AM

As a reasonably environmentally conscious lefty, ie not a Mail reader,
who doesn't live too far from Bristol;
I think going ahead with the Bristol Greta demo is sheer stupidity...

.. but then I'd also say exactly the say about money spinning corporate mass events
like football, other crowd pulling sports, and arena concerts,
at this point in time...

ALL risks to children...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 05:50 AM

There are no questions about containment. There is none.

Quite, but such attempts will slow down the spread, and distribute it over a longer time frame. Which gives the services more time to react, and reduces over-whelming of medical capacity.

Then summer will arrive - and that will reduce the spread (a little).

It looks like history has taught governments something. That is progress I guess. But they have a long way to go still................

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 05:31 AM

Last night President Donald Trump made his Coruna Virus Natuinal announcemnt.

He made cringe worthy claims from the briefing room which has been locked and unused for 1 year. He Dumped the entire Covid 19 task force on Pense.

Trump claimed that Corona is just a flu much less dangerous than the flu. He said the death rate of the flu is many times greater than 3 and corona is lower than flu. He also said the stock market collapse on Monday morning was due to the Democrat Debate Tuesday night.

what a performance

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 03:54 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/26/matt-hancock-clarifies-coronavirus-travel-advice-after-criticism


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8049005/Greta-Thunbergs-latest-rally-place-CHILDREN-risk.html

Lesson number one: Crowds are a wonderful medium for spreading infection, especially when attracting people countrywide.

Looks like some real joined up thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:18 PM

The British home guard will be re-mobilised to turn back inflatables
transporting illegal immigrants to our beaches,
while volunteer coast guards sink and drown them in deeper waters...

"Criminal gangs don't care a fig about spreading virus infested refugee invaders,
cramped together in small vessels like filthy smelly sardines,
breathing their deadly foreign germs all over our sovereign Island"

said one patriotic volunteer holding a cricket bat and walky talky..

"We don't want them here.. ever.."...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 11:39 AM

Virus pandemic vs Brexit:

the patriotic virus mask

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 09:42 AM

From RT so it must be false news
https://www.rt.com/news/481542-milan-zombie-apocalypse-coronavirus/

but
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/animals/supermarket-shelves-stripped-bare-as-coronavirus-fears-grip-milan/vp-BB10kd4x

WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told a briefing for diplomats in Geneva:

    Using the word pandemic carelessly has no tangible benefit, but it does have significant risk in terms of amplifying unnecessary and unjustified fear and stigma, and paralyzing systems. It may also signal that we can no longer contain the virus, which is not true. We are in a fight that can be won if we do the right things.

He obviously views the glass as being half full. Let us hope he is right.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 09:13 AM

There is an internal debate that fatality rates may be as low as 1% due to under reporting and an unreliable demoninator. :^/
Stock up if you can BEFORE the supply chains are effected.
It will be like camping. ;~)

See ya

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 07:31 AM

"The only remaining question is when"
quote yesterday Dr. Fauci

Dr. Fauci

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 07:21 AM

Iains with all due respect you are full of crap

There are no questions about containment. There is none.
The only question is when

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 06:55 AM

I think I'd prefer to cough rather than shit myself to death..

But both at the same time would be most unendurable...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 06:47 AM

Something I read a few years ago: the rate of spread of flu pandemics was the same in the age of jet travel as it had been in the age of sail.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 05:26 AM

It is still too soon to predict how this will all pan out. It will either be contained or not. From decades of frequent long distance flying I can vouch for the fact that aircraft and airports are guaranteed hot spots of infection.(even if it is just the common cold).I am sure it all accelerated when smoking on aircraft was banned. No need to change the air so much so saving fuel. Plus modern aircraft recirculate 50% of the air so infection is spread everywhere.
Plenty of links available from a general search of cabin air quality for the non believers to pursue.
For me flying is a no no until the epidemiology of this particular horseman is better understood and quantified.
Studies of TB transmissability on aircraft show a very low incidence but the data quality is not the greatest.(according to the Eurosurveillance journal) THe European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control quotes
"The transmission of influenza viruses, for example, is facilitated in closed/semi-closed settings through direct person-to-person contact or from contaminated surfaces. At the beginning of the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic in 2009, air travel was the cause of the introduction of this new virus into countries not primarily affected, and aeroplanes are likely to be a major vector when the next pandemic occurs. The outbreak of SARS in 2003, and influenza A(H1N1) in 2009, illustrated how infectious diseases can suddenly appear, spread and even threaten the health, economy and social lives of citizens in countries that are not or not yet directly affected by the epidemic itself." They issue a series of guidelines for specific threats.

I find it surprising that many studies just track passengers 5 rows either side of a carrier instead of everyone. What is the difference between recirulating air and circulating people? That 5 row cut off seems inexplicable to me. There seems little point in carrying out a survey if most of the passenger manifest is ignored. It skews the derived data set and makes it totally erroneus, and potentially seriously understates the risk.
But the WHO says there is lttle risk because in most aircraft The recirculated air is usually passed through high-efficiency particulate air filters, of the type used in hospital operating theatres and intensive care units, which trap dust particles, bacteria, fungi and viruses.
Once again who to believe? My belief is the WHO is massaging the feel good factor. I do not believe a word of it. Flying poses a risk that has yet to be quantified as far as airbourne pathogens are concerned.
The containment does not seem too successful thus far.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 05:24 AM

Your plans are your own. While taking precautions I would rather get sick at home. Odds are I get better and will not get a reinfection except for a mutation of Covid.

Today NIH and CDC officially announced that people should prepare for the virus now. The government basicly says everything is fine, thinking they are protecting the stock market.

To better understand where I am coming from, my Phd wife works for Dr. Fauci. So my early and continued concern has been vicarious at best.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 05:16 AM

I have a trip already booked and paid for and I won't be cancelling. Death is going to get me in the end - if I am going to die of something, I would rather it not be of boredom.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 04:50 AM

I'm not that bothered about catching the thing (though I'd rather not) but we're hanging back on booking holidays for the time being. It isn't always clear under what circumstances you'll get your money back if you can't go/if the trip gets cancelled, or if there are some curtailments apropos of itineraries, etc. I can well live without protracted fiscal complications and wranglings...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 12:08 AM

i don't know. i just cancelled my ireland and spain trip. by may we will know more. i was planning to do a lot of train travel..trains have been stopped between austria and italy and not stopping at some stations. airplanes..i would take gloves and mask and wipe stuff down with clorox wipes. i am taking them on buses now and asking driver if i can wipe down some of the handles etc. told priest at church no more shaking hands. if i went some place i would stay in that place and not travel all over as i was planning to do..plus i was going to stay in hostels with all those backpackers. be prepared on flights with your own food and water and portable toilet.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:16 PM

I was stationed in Berlin in 1972-73, and I've always wanted to go back and spend a significant amount of time there. I'd like to do it this May, but this coronavirus makes me worry. Should I take the risk and go to Berlin, or am I better off staying away from international flights right now?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:33 PM

Oustanding. a
choo   
Gesundhiet

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:15 PM

From The Atlantic:

You’re Likely to Get the Coronavirus

"Most cases are not life-threatening, which is also what makes the virus a historic challenge to contain."

Here's the first part of the article, in case you hit the paywall:

In May 1997, a 3-year-old boy developed what at first seemed like the common cold. When his symptoms—sore throat, fever, and cough—persisted for six days, he was taken to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Hong Kong. There his cough worsened, and he began gasping for air. Despite intensive care, the boy died.

Puzzled by his rapid deterioration, doctors sent a sample of the boy’s sputum to China’s Department of Health. But the standard testing protocol couldn’t fully identify the virus that had caused the disease. The chief virologist decided to ship some of the sample to colleagues in other countries.

At the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, the boy’s sputum sat for a month, waiting for its turn in a slow process of antibody-matching analysis. The results eventually confirmed that this was a variant of influenza, the virus that has killed more people than any in history. But this type had never before been seen in humans. It was H5N1, or “avian flu,” discovered two decades prior, but known only to infect birds.

By then, it was August. Scientists sent distress signals around the world. The Chinese government swiftly killed 1.5 million chickens (over the protests of chicken farmers). Further cases were closely monitored and isolated. By the end of the year there were 18 known cases in humans. Six people died.

This was seen as a successful global response, and the virus was not seen again for years. In part, containment was possible because the disease was so severe: Those who got it became manifestly, extremely ill. H5N1 has a fatality rate of around 60 percent—if you get it, you’re likely to die. Yet since 2003, the virus has killed only 455 people. The much “milder” flu viruses, by contrast, kill fewer than 0.1 percent of people they infect, on average, but are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths every year.

Severe illness caused by viruses such as H5N1 also means that infected people can be identified and isolated, or that they died quickly. They do not walk around feeling just a little under the weather, seeding the virus. The new coronavirus (known technically as SARS-CoV-2) that has been spreading around the world can cause a respiratory illness that can be severe. The disease (known as COVID-19) seems to have a fatality rate of less than 2 percent—exponentially lower than most outbreaks that make global news. The virus has raised alarm not despite that low fatality rate, but because of it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 02:23 PM

Whew. (deep breath) We can relax, Covid 19 is just a hoax to hurt Trump

It is just a common cold afterall, according to Rush Limbaugh.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/25/rush-limbaugh-coronavirus-trump

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:28 AM

How private medicine could make the epidemic very much worse:

get tested and go bankrupt

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 10:06 AM

Shocking but funny. Broiled PETA with honey and ketchup sounds good for carnivores. Vegans may have an edge.

I hope we can laugh our way through this.
He who laughs last laughs best.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 09:40 AM

"Make of that what you will."

Herbivorous veggie animals can get all smug and sanctimonious as they like about carnivorous predators,
until they become lunch...

PETA are also edible...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 09:24 AM

necrotizing fasciitis?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 07:56 AM

I heard on the radio yesterday:
Members of PETA (people for the ethical treatment of animals) have pointed out that 'corona virus' is an anagram of 'carnivorous'.

Make of that what you will.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:19 AM

They call it the infodemic. Wlll this thread become infected?
Will people blame a labor party or US candidates.

Will stupidity take over. Its up to you.

It doesn't matter to the virus.

An ounce if prevention

is worth a pound

of cure

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 03:20 AM

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-information-for-the-public

and here is some meta cod science for mr shaw
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3108006?seq=1

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 09:05 PM

Not until Liverpool get twelve more points in the bag they bloody won't.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 06:02 PM

This was going to be Manchester United's year. Like in Italy, football games will be suspended.

Fox news fake blonde employee McCaughey was promoted to chairwoman of infectious disease by Trump and is telling people on FOX not to go to hospitals because that is where there is the most transmission.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:49 AM

Covid can last 2 hours on a dry surface. Disinfectants can be found in your own area for a time. Even simple hydrogen peroxide is better than nothing. I do not favor one disinfectant over another so there is no link.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 10:11 AM

Here is a superior link to new information .

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/how-covid-19-is-spread-67143

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 07:05 AM

I have maintained WHO is not to be trusted in comparison to CDC usa.
There is a point it won't matter.

Investors are making bets in favor of the virus. The futures market is betting on a 800 point decline in the DOW.

For the wrong reasons, US Border Troops are sent to northern US cities.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 04:21 AM

Don't bother, pfr. They are all links to meta-cod-science-tiny-samples shite. The sort of stuff that poor Iains THINKS is science (see any of his "geological" posts...) but wot is more like the "science" that Guido the Shitbag might espouse...

A spiffing example of trolling.

I wonder if it will be deleted. But as it is posted by the hard left no doubt this post will be deleted instead.

I am sure the respected sources linked to would be delighted to know that an opinionated exteacher delares their content cod science.
The arrogance of the idiuot knows no bounds

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 01:47 AM

For the benefit of misinformed Americans, here is the latest information from the UK government. I prefer to take information from people who actually know what’s going on, rather than trust Twitter and YouTube.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 07:29 PM

Mad as a box o' frogs, Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 07:11 PM

what is happening in clinics in england now is that people concerned about disease are walking into the clinics or emergency rooms and bogging down the clinics..staff have to be sent home, places have to be sanitized...it is a nightmare.

it is a serious problem. just saw a video of a medical person in england I think..don't think i can find it again..saying this exact same thing. don't go the hospitals. call and get instructions.

Where are you getting this deranged crap? Fox or QAnon?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 06:48 PM

Don't bother, pfr. They are all links to meta-cod-science-tiny-samples shite. The sort of stuff that poor Iains THINKS is science (see any of his "geological" posts...) but wot is more like the "science" that Guido the Shitbag might espouse...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:40 PM

I'm cooking dinner, no time to read any of that yet..

So brief summary.. is now time for a sensible decision to stop or start smoking...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:16 PM

Pfr

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(19)30254-3/fulltext

https://www.in.gov/isdh/tpc/files/Smoking_and_Flu_7_18_11.pdf

https://academic.oup.com/eurpub/article/28/1/150/4108100

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 12:51 PM

I'm curious, and it might be of wider scientific interest..

How much of a factor is smoking & vaping
in death rates and survivor rates of the new potential pandemic...???

I doubt there was any meaningful research on this factor in 1918,
when even toddlers in their cribs smoked like chimbleys.....???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 10:30 AM

Where are you getting your information from?

BWM, mg explained where she gets her "facts" from a few posts back - Twatter!

Now, on to that magic wand and those assential oils......

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 07:25 AM

As Steve briefly mentioned the suspicious nature of people can be an even greater threat than the challenges of a bad cold. Hating the homeless like zombies and placing the blame on them leads to a horror of self destruction.

Never forget a King or a pauper are equal in this in vulnerability and falsely blaming others.

There is a real immune response known to actual virologists and on the other hand there is the imagined behavioral response by fearful masses.

Panic, in this case, is the fight we wage against each other.

Do not Panic.
The oods of your survival are VASTLY in your favor.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 07:18 AM

Steve, in 2006 I needed my gall-bladder removed and a pancreatic pseudo-cyst drained by open surgery. It too three weeks from my first consultation with the specialist who diagnosed the condition, to the operation being carried out. It now takes me four weeks to get to see my doctor or my diabetic nurse-practitioner.

There’s something wrong when this situation exists yet we can afford £100,000,000,000 for a high-speed railway line that hardly any of us will ever use.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 06:44 AM

Mr Red. For both rhe Spanish flu and corona virus it would seem the lungs are compromised. Yes we have antibiotics for secondary infections but the fact remains that intensive care is required when oxygenation of the blood is inadaquate. That requires resources and personnel in limited supply. Should rates of infection spiral, those most at risk will invevitably be triaged, just like any disaster when resources are inadaquate for the job in hand. A pandemic would be a repetition of the Titanic. The lifeboats are there but the numbers inadquate.

There are many contingency plans but at the end of the day resources are limited, and the UK is reckoned to be better prepared than most.
http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/78988/E93006.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 06:37 AM

There's a fairly substantial threat of a flu epidemic in any winter in this country. I expect my government to have plans in place for that eventuality, just as I expect it to provide funding to mend potholes and empty the bins. What I don't expect is the blame for overflowing hospitals to be laid on the shoulders of the elderly who have nowhere to go from hospital or people seen sneezing on buses. If we have money for superduper railway lines, we have money for the NHS.

In early 2013, before the Tories had had long enough to wreck the NHS, I was initially seen by a consultant and had my back operation all within three months. A couple of years before that, my wife had a series of operations on an eye. The 18-week time limit was faithfully adhered to, or bettered, every time. I know an elderly man who desperately needs a knee replacement (he's currently almost completely immobile). He was told last week that he can have his operation in 16 months' time. Early last week I made an appointment to see my GP about my painful shoulder. I still have another five weeks to wait for that appointment.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 06:09 AM

The great flu pandemic was reckoned to be a 10% mortality

If you are referring to Spanish 'flu - times were different, medical care was different. And attitudes were.

If attempts to confine the virus fail the aftermath will be untidy eg

I was told that in 1918 - returnees to NZ were anchored off-shore as a quarantine measure, only for Prime Minster Massey to take priority and ignore quarantine. NZ thought they had it sussed! Complacency & nobless oblige! He personally caused too many unnecessary deaths.

History has a habit of repeating itself, it has to, nobody is listening!

Just think, we haven't licked HIV yet, just learned to cope, badly.

But maybe, just maybe - scares like this will result in a reduction of air travel (for a while) and help with that other Sword of Damocles hanging over the human race.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 05:44 AM

Rumour suggests is by way of acknowledging that as yet no accurate data exists.
coronavirus case
78,880
view by country
Deaths:
2,466
Recovered:
23,335
Fatality rate 3.1%
I have deliberately understated mortality in order to avoid accusations of "weasel words" by the usual.
It is a fact of life that as the number of cases increase beyond a certain level the emergency services are swamped. Nominally 350,000 victims at any one time would fill all intensive care beds.
As the number of cases increase, the quality of care becomes compromised. Creating emergency beds is easy - to have them kitted out for intensive care is not. When the lungs need help beyond simple oxygen, you will find ventilators and extracorporeal membrane oxygenation equipment are in short supply. As a result, at the height of infectious cases the mortality tate could be expected to increase markedly.
That unfortiunately is a fact.
It is still too early to be precise about how lethal this infection is. The great flu pandemic was reckoned to be a 10% mortality of the 1/3 of world population who were infected.
If attempts to confine the virus fail the aftermath will be untidy.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 05:04 AM

mg, the only ‘abusive’ posts here are from you abusing me. You made an incorrect statement, I gave you facts, and asked a question - you responded with abuse (twice now). I don’t PM people to argue with them, I’m upfront and keep it on-thread.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:57 AM

If you get ill and have to be treated in hospital you are not "clogging up," "swamping" or "bogging down" anything. That's what hospitals are there for. A decent government in a wealthy country such as ours should ensure that contingency plans are in place in case of major outbreaks of illness, and that includes spare capacity. Instead, we have a government that lets both the health service and care sector rot while it contemplates the next hundred billion vanity project. Of course, it's far easier to blame an innocent holidaymaker or a homeless bloke on a bus...

By the way, "rumour suggests ...." is classic weasel words which entirely destroys the validity of anything that follows.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:34 AM

my answer is that you are abusive and i will not continue any conversation with you as that is my policy about abusive people. if there is a way to not see your messages, and i doubt that there is, i will take advantage of it. do not pm me.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:08 AM

Hmmmmm. No answer then?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:04 AM

oh ffs you are too rude for me to deal with

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 03:56 AM

Semantics. How is ‘bogging down’ different to ‘swamping’?

I live in the UK, of which the ‘England’ you keep referring to is one part of four. There’s no panic. People are not ‘bogging down’ A&E departments in hospitals.

Where are you getting your information from? Here Is the latest advice issued by the UK Government.

The only ‘panic’ I’ve become aware of is here on Mudcat, in certain near-hysterical rants.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 03:49 AM

I heard someone at a shop saying they think they heard someone at church saying they think
they heard a man on a bus
say he thought he read on twitter that the virus came from the moon.. I think...


What "I think" does not matter if I thought wrong...!!!

..and everyone else with any sense
can see I didn't do any proper research or preparation
before committing my thoughts to a public forum post...

misinformation is best friends with panic...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 03:43 AM

Rumour suggests 2% of patients with the corona virus would require intensive care. The UK has around 6000 intensive care beds, of which 30% are for children. It would only require 1/2% of the population to suffer from the virus to swamp the intensive care facilities. The great flu pandemic of 1918 is thought to have infected 25% of the UK population. If not contained the implications are profound.
The critical ingrdeients for most antibiotics are now made in India and China. Most of the world's face masks are made in China and Taiwan.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/12/c_138777213.htm

Perhaps going forward the subject of what constitutes "strategic supplies" may need to be revisited.

As an aside:(New York Post)
"China’s only Level 4 microbiology lab that is equipped to handle deadly coronaviruses, called the National Biosafety Laboratory, is part of the Wuhan Institute of Virology."
"The Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology recently released a new directive entitled: “Instructions on strengthening biosecurity management in microbiology labs that handle advanced viruses like the novel coronavirus.”

Does 2+2=5 in this case?
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-officials-discuss-novel-coronavirus-recently-emerged-china
A lot of jumping going on around the place. The fickle finger of fate or a helping hand?
With places like the Wuhan institute of virology, Fort Detrick and Porton Down can anyone be trusted?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/how-the-british-government-subjected-thousands-of-people-to-chemical-and-biologic

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 03:13 AM

is this what i said or is there something else..it definitely does not mention swamping.

what is happening in clinics in england now is that people concerned about disease are walking into the clinics or emergency rooms and bogging down the clinics..staff have to be sent home, places have to be sanitized...it is a nightmare.

it is a serious problem. just saw a video of a medical person in england I think..don't think i can find it again..saying this exact same thing. don't go the hospitals. call and get instructions.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 02:50 AM

“I never said that people were swamping UK hospitals”

Read your previous post again - it’s exactly what you said!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 01:58 AM

our buses are transports for the homeless population, and quite often make up the majority of passengers. They are absolutely filthy and quite often seem drunk, even in the morning. There is probably drug use but I don't know. They carry huge filthy duffle bags. The seats are made of fabric, which is crazy for a public transport, because they can not be cleaned. I am sure that they probably carry hepatitis, TB, flu A&B which is hitting people hard where I am. There are bad outbreaks of cholera and bubonic plague and who knows what in homeless populations in california. I am not sure what should be done, other than housing them adequately, but it is a public health disaster waiting to happen. We are vulnerable to covid19 because we are basically a port city with ships going back and forth to korea and china. there is one exposure that we know of that occured when a woman came back from travel in china. The local hospital has stepped up precautions. I have a handicapped brother who works in a homeless shelter in Seattle. I think if something hits we will be treated outside. If you tie up a hospital with infectious patients..what if you have a heart attack. what if you are having a baby ..break an arm? It is nothing to ridicule frankly. I never said people were swamping UK hospitals..but they are affecting them and at least a couple of doctors got the virus from people who just walked in (I think.) As for getting information off the internet, CDC posts on the internet. This is nothing to sneer at. The financial repercussions will last a long time, if everything goes smoothly from now. People from a factory in Italy have gotten it; soldiers in Korea have gotten it. Churches, schools, etc. shut down. I can't understand people being snarky about this.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 09:58 PM

Conspiracy chickens come home to roost where ever bio weapon research has taken place. #1 is Russia, #2 is the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 07:55 PM

a bonanza for conspiracy theory nuts...

All the worst affected nations are competitors or enemies of the USA... hmmmm...??????

..meanwhile the vaccine has existed since the virus was developed,
and the select American protected elite have already been immunised... hmmmm...???????

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 05:29 PM

I foresee six months of confusion and initial lawless de evolution of normal civilization as people learn to deal. But who knows, ome of the exitement will be be fun for some. Good times, end times, as events grow worse, its too late to run from the latest curse.
It is good to relearn our priorities from billionaires to minorities.
Two Springs from now will bloom a new common sense that will last, sigh , a generation.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:55 PM

Life ain't binary.
We should panic in the UK.
Our healthcare system has been teetering on the edge for a long time.
It is the politicians, and people who justify their actions that are to blame. We can see some above.

There is one aspect of life generally, that becomes a driver of disaster in systems that can be overwhelmed, episodically.

That problem is use of the word redundancy to be perceived as excess, wasteful, unnecessary etc. Redundancy means insurance against unusual events. Capacity for natures variability.

Hospital beds apply in this context. They are there for your personal 'flu, not sitting idle. There used to be TB isolation hospitals, where are they now? We might need them!

Remember the London Ambulance Service computer system? "Tandem Computers" (clue in their name) quoted £11 million, winning quote £2 million. First few months it collapsed. Collapse & revamp - At what cost?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 11:43 AM

Northern Italy closes schools and suspends gatherings as coronavirus cases mount

https://abcnews.go.com/International/hundreds-chinese-inmates-infected-coronavirus-outbreak-spreads-prisons/story?id=69120484

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 08:31 AM

mg:
we are asked where I live to follow universal precautions..we should anyway on our buses which are certainly sources of prurience in general.

Good grief, what do they DO on buses where mg comes from?

I just got a Facebook message from Ailie Robertson saying she'd had a gig cancelled in Italy due to coronavirus precautions. First public event I've seen to be affected.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 03:38 PM

Pfr as yet it is not a pandemic. Let us hope it does not become one. It would swamp any medical care facilities and the percentage that die (estimated at 2%, would inevitably increase markedly as intensive care facilities simply do not exist for the potential numbers requiring such care. Awkward choices would have to be made that would likely penalise the very young and very old. This supposes that supply lines,medications and vital infrastructure continues to function normally. In this joined up, just in time delivery world,such an expectation is likely away with the faeries in my view. (I hope I am proved to be totally wrong, but....)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 03:24 PM

Interesting link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-7SQGPkijs

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 11:20 AM

Mob panic mentality...

What's the reality of the news reports
of Ukrainians stoning a coach transporting quarantined returners from China...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 10:58 AM

But my original point in response to mg's nonsense still stands - in the UK (or 'England' as Americans erroneously refer to the UK), there is no Covid-19 panic, people are not flooding to A&E depots in our hospitals, staff are not having to be 'sent home', and A&E depts are not having to be 'sanitized', other than the routine cleaning which happens anyway.

In fact, the only person who appears to be panicking is the aforementioned mg.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 10:13 AM

Iains - we must at least make some effort to link this to pandemics,
or you know what will happen top our posts...

I had my own experiences of far too much NHS money being wasted on private consultants under Blair,
which I found completely unacceptable...

So sensible folks should agree both Blair and the tories are responsible for the current ill condition of the NHS,
and it's inability to cope with a realistically anticipated impending pandemic...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 09:37 AM

BUt it is the Labour leaders that send their entitled brats to private schools while the hoi polloi have to attend comprehensives (think abbaccus and bliar blair to name but two)

It was old labour under Tony Crosland that led the Labour campaign to replace grammar schools with comprehensive schools that did not use the Eleven-plus for the selection of pupils. ..."last thing I do, I'm going to destroy every f*cking grammar school in England."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 09:18 AM

New Labour...???

Oh we remember now..
that tory plot to covertly infiltrate the Labour party
in order to take it over and run it from the inside...

The fall back plan at that time when the public were sick of tory govt corruption scandals...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 08:53 AM

Whingeing? Who whinged? Don't you know that is a symptom of Covid 19 3/4?
QUARANTINE THEM AT ONCE

yep expect not just stupid mistakes but over reactions too

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 08:12 AM

Now then, you Tory apologists. A good number of us proper lefties (which Gordon and Tony were most decidedly not) were absolutely against PFIs and the academisation of schools. But be honest. By all means blame New Labour for initiating these things of which you moan, but let's face it: your lot has jumped on them with mighty enthusiasm and ballooned them out of any proportion that those initiators envisaged. You didn't have to do it, so stop whingeing about it, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:35 AM

Gordon Brown, when he was Tony Blair's chancellor, had the 'wonderful idea' of taxing the future. He got all those new hospitals on a kind of 'hire purchase' or 'never-never' system called PFI. He didn't have to pay up front. It would all be payed for by future tax payers. That's us, now. A significant part of current NHS budget goes into paying off that debt. He got the credit and we now pay for it. Thanks Gordon.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 02:46 AM

We have a problem with our NHS which is due to long-term underfunding by the Conservative government that has held power for the past ten years, as they prepare it for a take-over by the American private health industry.
Of course   the rubbish above presumes everyone is ignorant and are    not capable    of a little digging.
THE LABOUR PARTY were the first to float the idea of privatising the NHS by selling parts of it off, starting more than two decades ago and hoping "by 2008 we could have as much as 40 percent in the private sector."   Tony Blair took office in 1997, with the promise of removing “internal markets” in the NHS – the idea that Health Authorities ceased to run their hospitals, but “purchased” care from their own or other authorities hospitals. The Blair government, while leaving services free at the point of use, encouraged the outsourcing of medical services and under the Private Finance Initiative, an increasing number of hospitals were built, or rebuilt, by private companies too.

NHS hospital trusts are being crippled by the private finance initiative and will have to make another £55bn in payments by the time the last contract ends in 2050.
One of Labours cunning wheezes.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 02:16 AM

”what is happening in clinics in england now is that people concerned about disease are walking into the clinics or emergency rooms and bogging down the clinics..staff have to be sent home, places have to be sanitized...it is a nightmare.”

Drivel.

We have a problem with our NHS which is due to long-term underfunding by the Conservative government that has held power for the past ten years, as they prepare it for a take-over by the American private health industry.

SFA to do with Covid-19.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 06:44 PM

I think you would only have to check one language, which would be Latin..could do more of course. I totally forgot about vir/viri..so long since I had Latin but I still have it somewhat as a second language as I was a nice Catholic girl.

Absolutely give up hugging and kissing people in church and most places. Shaking hands at church? I think an awful practice to start with, but at least should have happened before or after church. What I am most concerned about is transportation and I am planning a trip to Ireland and Spain in about two weeks. Someone loaned me a UV wand and I have essential oils. Not too worried about catching it as being quarantined. i probably said this already. I mean quarantined as on a plane and not getting off and no bathrooms etc. I have a specific diet to follow and I will have some food but it won't go far. Plus I will be staying in hostels with all sorts of international travelers. I think I have said many times here that we are asked where I live to follow universal precautions..we should anyway on our buses which are certainly sources of prurience in general.

Also, when I see ads on twitter etc. for flights, cruises, etc. I ask them how they are handling this..best I have found is steam cleaning and UV light plus essential oils plus lysol. I am sympathetic to people with chemical sensitivies because many disinfectants are going to be used..when steam would be harmless. We need not confine our thoughts to covid...there are others waiting to spring up and we can be prepared or we can be stupid. and i keep asking who of the democrats could possibly lead us through an epidemic, which whole cities quarantined etc...I have ancestral memories I think of epidemics..spanish flu and diptheria and others...i have worked in two departments of infectious disease in seattle..uw and childrens' hospital.

what is happening in clinics in england now is that people concerned about disease are walking into the clinics or emergency rooms and bogging down the clinics..staff have to be sent home, places have to be sanitized...it is a nightmare.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 06:24 PM

i believe some of the korean infected were us soldiers. not sure. but both korea and japan have proven really really stupid in at least some of what they have done in terms of releasing people from the quarantined ship..in japan i think with 3,000 passengers plus crew..500 diagnosed I think..2 recently died...they released to go home right away via public transportation. Are they nuts? I forget what I read about Korea...I think a woman from the cruise was not quarantined and went to chuch and spread it. An infectious disease professor has a youtube post and says the quarantine measures on ship were as good as useless and he was not afraid of ebola, sars, etc..but he was afraid of this..not sure he meant the virus itself or the precautions.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 02:32 PM

Coughing and following through with a shart has always been even more stigmatizing..
Something to look forward to as I get older..
if I survive the pandemic...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 01:48 PM

Coughing in public for any reason may become very stigmatizing.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 01:26 PM

FWIW coronaviruses generally are one of several family of viruses we call the common cold. Which is why symptoms of COVID-19 have been compared to colds.

rhinoviruses are another.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 07:24 AM

Early Chinese findings show pregnant women have some special immunity to developing pneumonia symptoms from Covid 19. Seventy year olds do not fair nearly as well. -npr-

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 06:08 AM

One Korean church goer is believed to have infected twelve others.
Korea now has over 100 cases.

New rule; church hugging and kissing may be hazardous to your health.

Adolescent shitstorms and spelling errors are not being investigated by the CDC. I leave that to you folks. Comedic relief is healthy and essential.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 05:38 AM

I quite understand about pupils with various disabilities such as autism (one of our neighbours has an autistic little boy) but these pupils at my husband's school have no disabilities.
And their laptops are paid for by us, the taxpayers. The modern age requires access to technology for students, and many schools here supply all their pupils with a personal laptop each.
No excuse to chuck it in the toilet!
I have to say that despite their atrocious habits in the toilets, lots of the pupils there are very very fond of my husband and greet him cheerily. He doesn't bear them any ill-will.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: peteglasgow
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 04:59 AM

a word of caution about 'nasty spoiled brats' (15 feb - sorry, i've just caught up with this thread) in working with disabled people - and particularly folk with autism - the habit of blocking toilets with full rolls is quite common and a difficult behaviour to alter. if people are away from home on holiday then their confusion about the 'right' thing to do in the toilet may increase. as for electric devices? don't know but i often feel it would be no great loss if we stopped looking at screens and everyone binned the all-pervasive and addictive wee bullies.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 04:34 AM

Perhaps if you followed the Camino Inglés route of the Camino de Santiago you might have been miraculously cured.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 04:10 AM

Well I went to Galicia for my holiday and picked up A Coruña virus...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 02:53 AM

Yes, and we should all be aware of Cornavirus. If you get that, you'll need to see a chiropodist.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 02:37 AM

Has anyone noticed that COVID-19 sometimes gets called:

Corvid-19

Well it is a "bird" 'flu, which is nothing to Crow about.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 05:12 PM

If the birth day for the 'virus' disease usage was 1732, then the birth day for the plural 'viri' is 2020.


For all the girls I loved before is by Willie Nelson.
It is terrible. So is coronovirus.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 03:04 PM

I'm sure that your terrible poetry would go down well on many campi, as long as you could get plenty of alumnuses to attend... I don't want to be one of the hippopotami in the room...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 06:48 AM

To all the viri I've had before
That traveled in and out my door
I'm glad they went along
I dedicate this song

To all the viri I've had before
To all the viri I was blessed
And may I say, I've had the best
For causing me to cough, I coughed a lot, I know

To all the viri I've had before
And every time I tried to stray
The winds of change continued blowing
And they just carried me a way

To all the viri who shared my life
That now are someone else's strife
I'm not glad they came along
I dedicate this song

To all the viri I've had before
To all the viri that attacked me
That filled my nights with stomach cramps
They live within my world

I'll always be a swirl
Of all the viri I've had before
The winds of change are always blowing
And all the viri are always growing

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 05:53 AM

Quite.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 05:30 AM

virus (n.)

late 14c., "venomous substance," from Latin virus "poison, sap of plants, slimy liquid, a potent juice," probably from PIE root *weis- "to melt away, to flow," used of foul or malodorous fluids, with specialization in some languages to "poisonous fluid" (source also of Sanskrit visam "poison," visah "poisonous;" Avestan vish- "poison;" Latin viscum "sticky substance, birdlime;" Greek ios "poison," ixos "mistletoe, birdlime;" Old Church Slavonic višnja "cherry;" Old Irish fi "poison;" Welsh gwyar "blood"). Main modern meaning "agent that causes infectious disease" first recorded 1728 (in reference to venereal disease).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 05:18 AM

Excellent explanation Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 04:44 AM

Well now, mg, there are 7,111 languages in the world and I didn't have time to investigate every one to see if "viri" occurred in any of them. You are correct in that the Latin plural of "vir" (man) is viri, so, to that extent, you've got me there. But, you see, that isn't where we get "virus" from. In Latin, "virus" means a potent or noxious substance, such as the poisonous sap of a plant. That's where we got "virus" from, a word we usurped from the Latin and gave a different meaning to in English. We do that sort of thing quite a lot. In effect we made "virus" a word in English. We anglicised it. Now here's the rub: there is no plural variant form of the word "virus" in Latin (unlike there is for "vir," which you correctly point out), so the only resort available to us is to treat the word as a full English word and pluralise it accordingly. So "viruses" is sensible and "viri", if you insist on using it, just says something about you, but not, unfortunately, the thing you think it says about you.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 02:35 AM

Is the corona virus virile?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 10:22 PM

virile.. not a word heard that often at mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 10:00 PM

of course there is a word viri and it is the latin plural for men.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 08:22 PM

Our council has just turned down an application for a new Travelodge in Bude. A couple of years ago we got a new Premier Inn. That caused ructions...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 07:35 PM

I wish to digress, as this is supposedly a serious topic. There is no word "viri", and if you attempt to use that as the plural of "virus" you open yourself to well-deserved ridicule.

Also, you may decide to use "fora" as the plural of "forum" when referring to platforms such as this one. Technically, you are not wrong so to do, but you cast yourself as a clown if you do. We see a lot of that here.

Now back to the subject...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 06:29 PM

Backwoodsman my good man I'm sorry I didn't write the name Iains. I look forward to all your posts. Actually Iains upsets me less than stale cheese.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 03:59 PM

Donuel. Do you really think any government is going to be entirely honest about a suspected pandemic? It will always be a case of plan for the worst and hope for the best, and like any security issue Joe Public will be kept largely in the Dark. To put everyone infected in isolation can only work when numbers are limited. What do you do when numbers get out of control? Only Mormons and preppers can isolate themselves, the rest need feeding.
You can compare what the Chinese say about it all and other equally dubious sites such as below: Two opposite ends of the spectrum.

https://electroverse.net/coronavirus-the-official-numbers-dont-add-up/

There is controversy over the:
numbers infected
The demographic most at risk
The transmissability
the fatality rate


Who to believe?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 03:15 PM

You talking to me?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 02:07 PM

When I said CDC I meant the AMERICAN CDC.
Not the Chinese government cdc or the FUCDC or Russian news service.

I can not prove your raison d'etre is to cause dliberate harm but it is time to cut the crap.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 01:33 PM

I’ll be down that way next week, visiting a luthiery in the Exeter area....staying in a pub.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 01:05 PM

I believe a new one is opening just off the M5 if you fancy a long holiday trip to Scrumpyshire...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 01:02 PM

your town's buggered then...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 12:50 PM

Our local Travel Lodge is right in the town centre!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 12:34 PM

My hunch is Govt is planning to commandeer the likes of Travel lodge and Premier Inn
on trading estates at the edge of every town...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 12:25 PM

From CCDC
http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9a9b-fea8db1a8f51

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 12:09 PM

I see that the Government has commandeered a hotel near Heathrow Airport (a Holiday Inn) solely for passengers arriving with symptoms/possibility of having the virus. I do hope they 'deep clean' the place after all this is over. I wouldn't stay there for all the tea in ...er...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 11:05 AM

To grasp how small most viri are, fine porcelin will allow a virus to fall through like a plinko chip or a water molecule to run through a sponge. Respirators with an O2 supply are only as good as the seal against the skin which is compromised by facial fuzz.

What 'could' make Covid 19 much more infectious than the flu is that non symptomatic carriers can infect more people in their travels than flu. For example if flu would pass on to another person 1.3 times
before they are not infectious. A bad rate of infection would be 3.3

Learning from mistakes like keeping people on a cruise ship suggests that transmissability is more likely than full blown symtoms.
Ergo more cases overall. The irony is how the common cold became as virulent as right wing politics, again.

To temper speculation with current news, turn to CDC on the web.
They have the best epidmiologists in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 10:57 AM

Masks may filter droplets but any mask that could effectively filter viruses would suffocate you in seconds
I thought that also, but FFP-3 class masks effectively protect the wearer from droplet aerosols, protein molecules, viruses, bacteria, fungi and spores, and even from highly dangerous dusts such as asbestos fibers. BUT!
Protection only works if many other protective measures are taken at the same time: Strict hygiene when putting on a mask, protective goggles, gloves and plastic apron or overall, proper disposal of possibly contaminated disposable items and regular hand washing. In addition, the surroundings must always be systematically disinfected.

IT is not really a solution unless all steps are followed and even then sh*t happens.

https://www.ecowatch.com/coronavirus-face-masks-2645078070.html?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 08:57 AM

I read an [I hope trustworthy] article about 2 weeks ago that masks gave a false sense of security;
and that the more protective ones being sold to the public
previously required formal training and qualification
to be used used correctly and safely...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 08:04 AM

Masks may filter droplets but any mask that could effectively filter viruses would suffocate you in seconds. Masks are a money-making con.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 20 - 07:24 AM

The 'prompt' clinic nearby insists everyone wears a mask, but then everyone must use the same digital pen on a tether to sign in.

If you go so far as to wear a mask I would suggest gloves in public.

When do we start these special rules ?

Whenever you feel prevention has broken down and contagion is out of control.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 04:54 PM

1 plane landed in TX but you will be OK. Hey boss, da plane da plane

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 11:10 AM

Perhaps "don't transport people after they've been confined to a ship full of sick people" would be a useful rule:

Coronavirus Updates: Infected Americans Evacuated from Cruise Ship and Flown to U.S.

From the New York Times

Fourteen passengers, who were believed to be well before they were evacuated from a cruise ship in Japan on Monday, were found to be infected before boarding a charter plane to the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Feb 20 - 10:38 AM

Backwoodsman, I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Feb 20 - 04:57 AM

China export shortages begin this week

The pundits are predicting the pandemic will impact world economy. It was being predicted because the growth of the Chinese economy was slowing anyway, and Trump was meddling, and......, and....... But the pundits never saw this coming!

An example of why predicting the future on historical data, when it gets it wrong, will get it wrong in a bigger way.

I saw a TED.com video that reckoned the 2008 recession was made infinitely worse by Government meddling. A rule that was repealed within a year & saw recovery following.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 07:43 PM

I do not forsee a problem with the water system so I won't have to make the pool or spa potable.
My objective is to have food for 6 months to avoid shopping weekly.
Dry goods, real frontier food. MRE's yuck. so I settled on 300 cans of soup.
Mormons are required to have a year of food.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 05:34 PM

LOL! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 04:43 PM

I've been on several campi meself, BWM...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 04:04 PM

proceed immediately to the what are we eating thread

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 03:07 PM

I used to work part-time as a Youth-Worker at a Youth-Centre on a school campus. It was quite a regular occurrence, when checking the building was clear and secure at the end of the evening, to find one or more of the boys’ lavatories blocked by having several toilet rolls shoved down it, and a pile of human sh*t left on the top.

You have to remind yourself, under those circumstances, that it was just one kid out of the fifty or so who had come through the door that evening. But it’s still very depressing.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 02:53 PM

The pupils are given small laptops to keep and take home, on which to do their homework and have contact with teachers etc. My husband has found more than one of these pushed down a toilet.
He is horrified at all this. In his home town in Adjame, Abidjan (Ivory Coast) the pupils (many with no footwear) were hard-pushed to find a pencil and an exercise book. Yet these nasty, spoiled brats shove their laptop down the loos!
The difficulty is that adults can't go into the toilet blocks when they are in use, as there are rules about privacy (rightly so). My husband is extremely careful to ban entry while he cleans, or he could be accused of voyeurism or worse.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 02:01 PM

Re the school restrooms: I still believe that a minority of students are responsible. How many people among us want to have anything to do with feces?

This situation is a shame, and the administration should step up and do something to end it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 01:23 PM

Perhaps Steve one might catch viri while travelling in numerous omnibi?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 01:03 PM

What if the virus laughs at ultra violet rays
then makes the most of getting a free tanning session...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 11:51 AM

Strong UV light is at the entrance of operating rooms in our area.

I should have kept my 6 ft tall UV unit. (Portable tanning unit)
It was too strong for plants as well.

I would have used it for hair and hands

China export shortages begin this week

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 10:51 AM

"Viri." I love that and have been using it all day! Almost worthy of a thread....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 15 Feb 20 - 04:46 AM

Read up on uv light for destroying viri. Very powerful. They have big robots in hospitals now and developing for planes. Some are being offered to China. I assume China has factory availability right now and could produce them. Very old technology..I think used in wwi. Also powerful steam cleaners will do the job
Where I live in Washington State USA we are asked to practice some universal precautions.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 09:45 PM

"A weak immune system is advantageous to surviving"

..so you wouldn't want to be in your 90s with a strong immune system...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 09:24 PM

A weak immune system is advantageous to surviving Covid 19. A strong immune system over reacts to the virus and that is what kills its victims.

Panic if you must but it is part of the normal deal for survival on the Planet. Virus were probably here first and are always a competator.

As in a collapse of life or merely a civilization in the past there is a spectrum of multiple causes happening together such as; global warming extinctions PLUS locust invasions PLUS a large impact PLUS Mumps PLUS AIDS PLUS viral infections PLUS Nuke plant abandonment PLUS etc.

This possible pandemic is a single incident and as such not a big deal to civilizationin in the long run. Survivability is 97%+

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:53 PM

The bloat dies down. It's the lack of lunch packs you should be worrying about.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:45 PM

but what about our boy band/movie star handsome faces..

we can't be seen in public looking like puffy bloated hamsters...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 06:33 PM

Mumps? Stop worrying, mate. At our age we don't need our bollocks any more.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 05:54 PM

My mrs is always brings home colds and coughs from school for me to catch..
Last year I decided it was time to start paying for a flu jab at xmas...

Still, while we're waiting for the pandemic,
Britain has a peak outbreak of mumps...

That'll be fun...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 05:28 PM

No leeneia, there are six toilet blocks in the high school, including those at the College for sixth-formers. All of them are in the same filthy state, female toilets as well as male ones. So the risk of spreading a dodgy disease is quite high. My poor husband has to clean them all!
In our village there is a lovely infant and junior school, plus a nursery, and children are ferried here from all the surrounding villages to attend.
I do think children could be vectors for a virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 05:16 PM

antibody identified

The biotech community are moving pretty quickly, they need to.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:53 PM

If you've ever dodged a bullet it is scary but happy at the same time

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM

one of the problems with closing schools is that the notso little horrors would be anywhere and everywhere, congregating. And it would take a monstrous effort to stop that!

Lets face it, we have a problem, just not as bad as China.






Yet.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 14 Feb 20 - 12:40 PM

Keep in mind that that nastiness was probably caused by 2 or 3 boys egging each other on. That's 2 or 3 (or maybe just one) pupil out of several hundred.

What's the girls' room like? Clean, I bet. That's 50% of the school.

The adults have no excuse for this. When I was in grade school, our teachers ushered us to the restrooms at a stated time every morning and every afternoon. They would have heard the sounds of vandalizing and stopped it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 05:28 PM

It would be better to close schools sooner than later.
If an infection rate is 1 in 200 its too late to make a meaningful difference imo. Sorry for the hardships it would cause.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:17 PM

He knows that no adult can supervise in the toilet block during school hours. (He places a yellow triangle in front of the door while he cleans) so the pupils can do what they like in there. And as you say Steve, grasses would get beaten up.
He has a special solvent to remove graffiti and the usual genitalia drawings, which shocked him terribly at first!
It's all very unhygienic.
I wonder if all schools would close if the virus should become rife?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 01:05 PM

The kids don't do it when there are teachers around, and you wouldn't dare grass because the perpetrators saw you in there...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 08:24 AM

Ah yes, my husband is a full-time cleaner in a large secondary school. He arrives at lunchtime (pupils are present) and works until 9pm. He starts with the toilets, and what he tells me is dreadful. The pupils make an unspeakable mess, with urine, faeces and other things. Toilet paper soaked in urine then flung up to the ceiling to stick there. (Why?)
He scours himself in the shower when he gets home, and changes all his clothes, which I'm more than happy to wash on a very hot wash cycle, including his cleaner's uniform.
He can't understand why the Headmaster doesn't address this filthiness in the toilets and punish the offenders. He didn't even have a toilet at school in Africa, just a hole in the ground!
If a pandemic broke out, I should imagine schools would be a hotbed of infection.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 07:32 AM

Doesn't matter how cautious I am outside the house,
my wife works in a infant school
surrounded by little festering disease carriers...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 07:22 AM

This is why I religiously wash my hands very thoroughly the minute we get home. But you're right Steve, the arrangements in public toilets for opening doors etc are not ideal. I never ever use public loos. Husband does though.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 06:49 AM

npr suggests that Africa will be hit hard because of so few clinics.
The tongue in cheek remark about the meek inheriting the Earth is gallows humor at its worst when we consider what may happen in Africa.


There is something akin to a grim experiment aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship being held along with over a thousand people by Japan. Some are infected and are moved off the ship as testing continues.

novel corona virus is now named Covid for short.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 06:22 AM

Droplets are quite likely not the main problem. They settle very quickly, so you'd have to be very close to a sneeze to inhale any. So you blow your nose into a tissue which temporarily goes back in your pocket where you keep your clean tissues, banknotes, credit cards or coins. Your contaminated hands then leave virus particles on strap hangers, support bars, door handles, supermarket basket and trolley handles, then on to your own shopping bags, car keys and the car steering wheel. As a bonus you might just pick up some more from the usually disgustingly-filthy buttons on the card machine. And don't get me started on the almost invariable setup in gents' toilets in which the only way to get out is to grab, with your freshly washed hand, a door handle that pulls inwards and that has been touched by a hundred unwashed hands. We all have to touch objects contaminated by couldn't-care-less people (though they do give a shit, literally). Even you with your conscientious disposable wad of Kleenex are a culprit. The public health warnings we're getting represent a load of panic-stricken back-pedalling. They just might do a little bit of good.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 06:15 AM

Oh Iains, what a shame, that would have been just the thing! As you say, 'wonder why it's no longer available?'

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 06:01 AM

currently unavailable (I wonder why?)


https://www.amazon.com/Lakeland-Encapsulated-Expanded-Disposable-2X-Large/dp/B00CMXCJMK?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_11

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 04:25 AM

I agree about 'metal tube with all the coughers and sniffers'.
We intended to go 'up the city' on Saturday (not that there Lunnon, just Naaaarwich) on the Park and Ride bus. But I'm not keen as people do indeed cough and sniff with no hanky, and the windows are always shut. Box of germs. I'm furious when people just sneeze loudly without even covering their mouths/noses. And cough all over everyone too.
I wonder if one can buy a Hazmat suit on Amazon? Perhaps my husband could get a fancy one with Man U or Arsenal logo printed all over it?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 03:32 AM

The healthier and more developed your immune system the more ill you will become if infected. 20 to 50 year olds are more at risk.
The irony is surprising.

That may have been true of the 1918 flu pandemic but so far as is known statistics on corona virus suggest fatalities are concentrateed among the old with pre existing conditions.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2233269-how-bad-is-the-covid-19-coronavirus-outbreak-likely-to-get/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 13 Feb 20 - 03:09 AM

OTOH, us 'fitness freaks' are more likely to be commuting by foot or bike in the fresh air than being stuck in a metal tube full of coughers and snifflers.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 10:37 PM

The healthier and more developed your immune system the more ill you will become if infected. 20 to 50 year olds are more at risk.
The irony is surprising.

The reason is that like SARs it is the over response of your own immune system that kills you.

The meek weak and feeble will inherit the Earth ;^I

I am not a runner or fitness freak. Those who are, might feel cheated.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 07:17 PM

On that at least we can all agree.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 12:31 PM

@ Mr Red. Thank you for the clarification. It was an aspect that I had not considered. Perhaps disposable gloves would be desirable should the situation deteriorate.

For the pedants:
The past tense of pay attention to is paid attention to.
The third-person singular simple present indicative form of pay attention to is pays attention to.
The present participle of pay attention to is paying attention to.
The past participle of pay attention to is paid attention to.

I was taught all this aged 12 and forgot 90% of it by age 13. Now in the days of keyboard communication I consider myself barely literate.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 12:27 PM

Pfr - ‘payed’ is the archaic form, the modern form is ‘paid’.
‘Payed’ is acceptable for certain nautical uses of the word.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/paid-payed/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 12:05 PM

BWM - that one still confuses me.. even when spellcheck is working properly..

..and I was always top of the class in English at school..

It's not like I never payed.. errrmm.. paid attention..
no, I'm sure it's payed..
though paid now looks correct.. dunno though, it could be payed...???

oh bollocks.. it's not like I never listened to teachers explaining the spelling rules...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 10:54 AM

Apologies for my pedantry, but this is the fourth time I’ve seen the past tense of ‘pay’ spelled ‘payed’ on t’Interweb today.

It’s ‘paid’.

Carry on....

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 09:15 AM

Stephen Fry, on QI, who could not tell a lie:

said that the way face masks work, when they work, is to prevent people rubbing their mouths/noses & maybe eyes. After shaking hands &/or opening doors, handrails, loose food etc. It reduces the transference of whatever.

And the BBC prog did advocate the washing of hands more often during a pandemic/scare. A figure of five or more times was quoted.

Another tactic which IS done, is to inoculate key personnel, like medical workers, shop assistance etc. If vaccines have been found/made. The transmission rate, even inoculating key personnel, is probably quicker than the 4 months incubation time of novel vaccines.

Money is another vector for transmission. Indeed one old lady I recorded said her doctor (say in the 20/30s) would be payed by boiling the coins first and only he would remove them from the pan. Clever doctor or common practice in the days before the NHS?
Irene Adey talking of 11 shillings boiled born 1917, she reached 100, about 6 months after the recording.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 08:01 AM

What is the point of wearing a mask when the infection is viral?
An NBC suit would be the only defense.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 06:05 AM

I do not have the imagination to predict how the virus will effect the US election in November. i just know it will have an effect.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 Feb 20 - 04:53 AM

the BBC re-broadcast a programme that included a sophisticated smart phone survey, in the way that only the BBC manage to do. Hannah Fry, the Statistics Professor, with a few Cambridge Uni Alumni and loadsa backroom analysis with moving graphics.

It makes for stark viewing, and obviously was shown to remind people in the wake of this coronavirus instance.

CONTAGION! The BBC Four Pandemic

Enjoy...............

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 12:10 PM

mg I find your new rules valid.

I would add cruise ships to the no go list.

"the mask and GLOVE BOAT is waiting to take you away, the Glove boat.."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 09:39 AM

China is an amazingly strange mess of contradictions..
Technology leaders of the brighter future, hampered by stupidest superstitions of the dark past..

If nothing else good comes out of this pandemic,
the Chinese Govt must crack down heavily on endangered wild species trade...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 09:28 AM

On the BBC today - it’s believed that the coronavirus came from pangolin which was sold on a Chinese market,

Such wonderful irony! The (literal) biters bit.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 08:08 PM

i have some concerns. i just heard something about morgues and funeral parlors in china...WHAT? if you have an epidemic you don't have the luxury of a funeral parlor. What do they think is going to happen? Do you want bodies decomposing? Do you want people assembling? No. Do what needs to be done and do it immediately and that includes people who died of something else..assume they have been exposed.

I think it is past time in us to start taking universal precautions, under the assumption that sooner or later we will have an epidemic to contend with. Quit shaking hands, especially in church. I never like that. We can bow or something. Spread yourselves out. One thing I see in China videos is they seem to crowd together even when there is space. Probably a cultural thing. I am in Scandi land so we don't tend to cuddle together much. I will research steam cleaning and ultraviolet machines. Not sure they work on viruses. There are essential oils that do work. When you give christmas presents etc...give stuff that people would like to have on hand for various eventualities. If you are near a viral epidemic, wear glasses, or goggles if you can, and protect your ears.

Public transportation is a nightmare. I want to fumigate myself after using it. Insist that new buses and trains not have cloth cushions. How can you clean them? Or people take wipes and clean them themselves with only the mildest soap and water of course. Think about pets on public transportation...

lots to think about. i don't think us will be hit much, but sooner or later we will. we also have to deal with the homeless population. no way to wash, no bathrooms etc. not good. and various epidemics are starting up there.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 09:12 PM

But Bloomberg has a track record

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 09:11 PM

I see Pete as the sharpest cookie in the bunch.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 08:58 PM

I hope I am not repeating myself here. But I am seriously wondering who among the candidates can lead us through a possible epidemic. If it only affects a few thousand people in usa, there will still be shortages, panic, job loss, increased poverty etc. Who in our government can oversee this..get medicine (??), food, bedding etc. to various quarantine places. I can not see elizabeth, bernie. Biden OK if he were younger perhaps. Budd perhaps..at least he has military experience. Tulsi might impress us. Booker, gone but nice guy. How is he with logistics? Who is capable of transporting people, goods, keeping a population from panic, keeping a volatile economy going. I keep forgetting about Yang. Don't know. Bloomberg? Don't know much about him. Does anyone strike you as the person to lead us..not inspire us..but get us the goods we need. Pragmatic, cooperative, commanding. General Honore is only person who comes to mind and he is not running. Someone will emerge. Trump will only save 1% and Pence will save only the presaved.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 02:27 PM

I see you've come here for a battle of the CDC's
"No I came here for an argument"
You didn't pay
"Yes I did"
No you didn't

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 01:45 PM

Donuel: From the CDC website:
The 1918 influenza pandemic was the most severe pandemic in recent history. It was caused by an H1N1 virus with genes of avian origin. Although there is not universal consensus regarding where the virus originated, it spread worldwide during 1918-1919. In the United States, it was first identified in military personnel in spring 1918. It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the world’s population became infected with this virus. The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html

For coronavirus
Fatality Rate (CFR)
(WHO early estimate)
2% (?)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 01:18 PM

btw the CDC states the opposite of what Iains suggested.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 01:10 PM

I never expected to laugh out loud over a thread like this.
The true comments are the best punchlines.

[I would switch 'stay on the sunny side' with 'take precautions'
in the panic vs relax post.]

Predicting what may happen, for what ever reason, is secondary to the medical responses. But predict we will and infighting will begin.
It is as inevitable as a cat fight between Pollyana and Pandora, God vs. Lucifer, Voldemort vs Harry or donuel vs steve.

So I propose apologizing in advance should feathers, scales or hair get ruffled.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 12:02 PM

Disclaimer: military historians please note I couldn't be arsed checking WW1 blown to smithereens casualty lists,
so 'most' might be a teeny weeny exaggeration...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 11:57 AM

yeah.. in 1917 most Brits, Yanks, Aussies, Kiwis, Indians, etc, who travelled abroad
went there to get blown to smithereens..

These days most travellers come home...

A far worst potential pandemic threat...!!!

So will I still be joking about it in, say, 2 months from now...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 11:45 AM

As for bad colds, novel corona virus is only a tiny bit more powerful than the 1917 flu.

What is different is a 2020 version of modern medical care.

What is different is the much higher level of international travel in 2020.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 07:03 AM

Donuel the CDC suggests 500,000,000 caught the 1918 flu virus and up to 50,000,000 died.
That makes it far more lethal that suggested statistics, so far available, for the coronavirus.
We shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 06:49 AM

PANIC = tremble in fear, act like a coward, take unusual precautions

RELAX = ignore concerns, feel indestructable, stay on the sunny side

I'm for the middle way, however you define it.


As for bad colds, novel corona virus is only a tiny bit more powerful than the 1917 flu.

What is different is a 2020 version of modern medical care.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 06:18 AM

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 11:37 PM

Panic and anxiety more than likely weaken the immune system...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 10:24 PM

good. i vaccilate between calm and panic. i have a trip planned to ireland and spain in one month..layovers in london. just got travel insurance. if epidemic is raging i will cancel trip. if not, i will go and be very careful. i am basically healthy and not prone to catching things. they say lysol works well. i am probably safer in europe than where i live..we are a port to and from china.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: leeneia
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 09:32 PM

I read in my newspaper that for most people, the novel coronavirus causes an illness similar to a bad cold. People who are compromised (you know who you are) may become very ill, but that's true of most illnesses.

I think we can relax about all this.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 08:15 PM

Regarding this small community I warn you for the last time to find a means of getting and filling prescriptions of penicilin, antibiotics or your most basic medicines in advance of 6 weeks from now.

The reason is that many medicines such as penicilin is 95% made in China and soon they will need it for their own pnemonia cases.
I can only speculate that certain fortunate people will still have access to antibiotics. We are not all fortunate. I would reason further that anti virals, although useless and non specific, will be the first to run out.

Secondary infections are occuring and most likely you will only have spent some time for peace of mind.

Remember China has spent decades cornering the drug manufacturing market and they have unfortunately succeeded.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 06:51 AM

I had an hour conversation with my youngest about novel coronavirus.
Bottom line was to trust the CDC even over WHO.
WHO has slightly more political and economic concerns regarding information.
My son is well versed in the subject but needed guidance navigating social media out of China.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 03:46 AM

I only ever used to shake hands with the wife's best friend. These days, it's shaking hands with the unemployed. Same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 02:07 AM

"Don't Panic" is on the cover of the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

In BIG FRIENDLY LETTERS.

"DON'T PANIC"

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Feb 20 - 01:54 AM

I only shake hands with people I want to shake hands with. And that’s very few indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 03:38 PM

You are smart, not crazy, to avoid reflexively shaking hands in an area of known outbreak.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Charmion
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 03:25 PM

The rules for the coming pandemic are the same as the rules we should have used in the last one, but didn't.

Wash your hands, with soap, and dry them thoroughly. Do it often.

Stay away from sick people. If you get sick, stay away from healthy people.

If that means you can't go shopping, too damned bad; ask someone else to do it for you and leave the groceries on the porch. Do not ask that nice person in for tea, or hug him/her.

If that means you can't go to work; sorry. I know you need your wages, but your colleagues and customers need their health even more.

Wash your hands -- again.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Feb 20 - 10:20 AM

"When the government tells you 'Do not panic', thats exactly the time to panic"
quote: John Cussak in the movie 2012

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 09:31 AM

Oh, 100

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 09:29 AM

"Rules for the coming pandemic"

In the words of Corporal Jones:
Don't Panic!

Excellent first rule.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 08:59 AM

Oh crumbs Steve, I didn't know that. Maybe the blooming thing will mutate into something non-fatal to humans. (I believe viruses mutate rather frequently)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 08:48 AM

Unfortunately, it would take several months to develop a vaccine. After that, it has to be cleared for use on humans, and then it has to be bulked up. The timeline is probably at least one year.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 06:14 AM

The problem with knowing what someone died of when abroad, in tropical climates etc, is getting a proper diagnosis. My husband tells me that so many of his old mates/family members have died in Ivory Coast, and people there always say, "It was malaria". But there are so many possibilities. Diabetes is quite common, dietary deficiencies, typhoid, cholera, food poisoning, anaemia and so on, but the only symptom that they see is the high fever, and they conclude ,"C'était palu.".

We are so lucky in the West that we can be reasonably sure (laboratory tests and skilled doctors) what the illness is. Curing/preventing a virus though, well, let's hope a vaccine is soon forthcoming!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 20 - 05:46 AM

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wuhan-coronavirus-looks-increasingly-like-a-pandemic-experts-say/ar-BBZzYIk?ocid=spartandhp
link
It was MERS that was 1 in 3 three fatal after a mutation.
A mask's porous nature compared to the size of a virus is like rice through a tennis racquet.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 11:19 AM

serious time again..

This has been a sad RIP Andy Gill [guitarist - Gang of 4] weekend..

one of the few 'celebrity' deaths to actually hit home emotionally for me..

A few other mudcatters were also young adults enjoying living the late 70s early 80s Leeds agitpop post punk scene..

Age 64, his death was reported as respiratory problems following an Asian tour at the end of 2019..

No further details available for now...

The obvious first reaction [well.. my mrs ] is to link this to the unfolding pandemic.

Probably coincidence.. but...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:06 AM

Militant bats must have been outraged by a rich white man culturally appropriating
their appearance and mannerisms...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 10:02 AM

Ask Batman. He wore a mask.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 09:41 AM

So how do public health officials get wild bats to wear surgical masks...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 09:36 AM

Hard to reason with stupid!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:49 AM

Government advice fully accords with everything I've said. So here are the facts, stated simply, then you can whine away all you like, as I'm rapidly losing interest. Anything you can't agree with, tell it to the marines.

Bats can carry strains of rabies-like viruses, but this is rare.

27 UK bats, generally specimens found dead then reported, have been found to be infected out of many thousands sent in over many years.

There has been just one single case in the UK of a bat infecting a human. This was a man in Scotland in 2002 who was a licensed bat-handler and who had had prolonged contact with bats over many years.

In order to catch the disease from an infected bat (which are very rare) you have to be scratched or bitten by the bat.

Bats are very shy of humans and are extremely unlikely to show a human any aggression.

You can't catch rabies by touching a bat with unbroken skin.

No bat has been found in this country carrying the novel coronavirus strain.

There is absolutely no need to worry that you might catch rabies from any bats in your house, garden or anywhere else. It simply isn't going to happen.

There are eighteen species of bat in the UK, not one.

Enjoy life.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 04:32 AM

I wonder wwhy the government saw fit to update the link as recently as Oct 2019?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rabies-in-bats
Mr Shaw I regard you as the last person suitably qualified to apprise me of anything as by your own admission you do not differentiate between fact and whimsy. Your pontifications are best ignored

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 04:05 AM

I saw some photos in the paper of quite a few inventive solutions to the shortage of surgical masks in China. Some people had made one from a plastic bottle cut into shape. Even the leaves of a large cabbage(!) and one young woman had attached the peel of half an orange to her face. Bras are apparently useful. But it seems that washing the hands thoroughly after being out is an excellent idea, also avoiding touching handrails/stair rails or doorknobs, then one's face.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 09:56 PM

well.. I was looking out our front upstairs window..

..ermm.. I thought it was a baseball bat..???

Though he is a big Scotsman... he could have been tossing his caber at 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 09:19 PM

Are we still talking about baseball bats? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 02:32 PM

In the UK these days our lives are realistically more likely to be threatened by Baseball bats..

Though sometimes they can be a force for good...

The big Scots bloke across the road
sent a gang of young trouble making skinheads running out of our street
when he started swinging his at 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 10:55 AM

Last I heard it was snakes or minks eaten by people.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 10:54 AM

Like UFO movies, people saw a movie Outbreak and saw 3 seconds of bats causing a viral transfer and 'guess' yes its bats.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 08:45 AM

"In the uk the bat is a protected species"

Hardly "pedantic" to point out this wild and grossly unscientific inaccuracy, along with all the other half-baked nonsense about our poor old bats. One fine day you might just learn to drop the hubris and do what the rest of us do, admit it with a little "oops" (that's all it takes) when you make a mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 08:07 AM

Only our resident pedant would insist on pointing out that bats have chritian names. The rest of us are more than happy to accept that bat is a generic term covering more than 1200 species. Still it managed to waste his time on a Sunday morning, while I sit back and laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 07:05 AM

"Ore facts?" Just goes to show that I have a cast-iron case... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 07:04 AM

More facts. Fewer than 30 UK bats out of many thousands tested have ever been found with the bat rabies-like virus and they were dead specimens collected for analysis, which kind of skews any attempt to put a percentage on how many bats carry the infection. We can say that it's very low. The Scottish case referred to is the one and only case ever recorded in this country. Another fact is that you can't catch rabies through unbroken skin, so you were very safe, Jack. I love bats. Let's enjoy 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:48 AM

Ore facts. Fewer than 30 UK bats out of have ever been found with the bat rabies-like virus and they were dead specimens collected for analysis, which

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:42 AM

You were safe enough, Jack, as long as you didn't deliberately scratch yourself with its teeth or feet. Or eat it raw.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:41 AM

I've apprised you of the vanishingly small risk of infection from bats. A single exception from nearly 20 years ago merely serves to prove the rule. Those are the facts. There are 18 species of bats here, not one. Another fact. "Coronaviruses found in our bats," eh? Well here's another set of facts. Coronaviruses aren't just one thing. There is a whole family of strains of coronaviruses. The one currently in the news is just one, a novel strain which has been named novel coronavirus 2019-nCov. This strain has not been found in bats in this country. You are spreading scaremongering disinformation in your usual sub-tabloid fashion. Fortunately, an ever-decreasing number of people now look at your posts, let alone trust anything in them.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:34 AM

Closest I've ever got to a bat was in the bathroom of a hotel in Langkawi Island, Malaysia. It settled down at the top of the door one evening and was lying dead on the floor next morning. I picked it up and biffed it out of the window. In hindsight picking up a bat in a part of the world where rabies is still endemic might not have been a great idea.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:25 AM

Unfortunate things, facts, aren’t they Steve?
What:
That some British bats are a reservoir of European Bat Lyssaviruses ?
A small number of coronaviruses have been found in a few of our bat species?
A Scottish bat worker died from rabies in 2002.In the case mentioned, the contracting agency, Scottish Natural Heritage was served with two ‘improvement notices’ by the Health and Safety Executive. Vaccination is now compulsory for all those employed to work on bats in the UK, including students.It is further compulsory for all those licensed to handlebats, including volunteers, and for bat rehabilitators, with vaccine either provided gratis by the Department of Health or by the employer where one is identified. (3 injections approx.£200)
The cost ofthe same in the US is scary.
Bat lyssaviruses appear transmissible to all mammals, including humans where they all cause rabies (i.e. serious and invariably fatal disease in the absence of post-exposure treatment). In common with all other lyssaviruses there is no treatment for rabies caught from bats once clinical signs appear and so prevention of infection and immediate post-exposure treatment is vital.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:20 AM

By the way, if you get a bat in the bedroom, shut the door (stay in the room), open the window and curtains and marvel at the creature's amazing ability to home in gradually on its escape route as it flies in circles round the room (it won't collide with you). Five or ten minutes should do it. If it exhausts itself it might rest on a curtain or in a dark recess for a bit. If it gets tangled in something you should wear gloves as you gently free it. It's unlucky for the bat but it gives you a rare opportunity to get up close and personal with such an engaging beastie.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:13 AM

We should look after our bats and celebrate them. A good bat population is a sign of a healthy ecosystem, and bats flitting around in the gloaming of a summer's evening whilst one is contemplating the upcoming barbecue, glass of Prosecco in hand, makes for a very pleasant scene.

I have hazy memories of Basil Fawlty threatening to put a bat up someone's nightshirt...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:45 AM

I too have had quite a few bats flying around the house in the evening, mostly pipistrelles. Once or twice one has got entangled in the net curtain after trying to get into an open window. I love the little things, and just use a tea towel to gently disentangle them and set them free. I've never considered rabies among bats - most interesting.
Now, next question. Er... do spiders carry rabies??

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:19 AM

I have bats in my roof and garden and have had them in my bedroom more than once. The chances of my catching rabies are nil.

Yes, but what if you have them in your belfry? Some contributors to this thread need to know.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:17 AM

Unfortunate things, facts, aren’t they Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:09 AM

In the UK a small number of bats carry rabies caused by European Bat Lyssaviruses.
In the uk the bat is a protected species"

Wow. Nothing like a bit of partial information or misinformation, is there? Hardly any UK bats have ever been found to carry rabies, and the type of rabies in bats is not the same thing as dog rabies. There is NO risk of contracting rabies from a UK bat unless you go out of your way to capture and handle a bat, and even if you were daft enough to do that the chances of its being an infected one are minimal. I have bats in my roof and garden and have had them in my bedroom more than once. The chances of my catching rabies are nil. No bat in this country would ever show unprovoked aggression to humans as they are extremely timid. Finally, as for "the bat" being "a protected species," there are actually 18 species of bats in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 04:26 AM

Scottish NHS advice

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 04:16 AM

It is interesting that Coronavirus is thought to have spread by bats.
The Marburg virus is transmitted to people from fruit bats and spreads among humans through human-to-human transmission. Fatality rates from outbreaks have ranged from 24% to 88%. (When I worked in Niger 40 years ago it was known as green monkey fever)
In the UK a small number of bats carry rabies caused by European Bat Lyssaviruses.
In the uk the bat is a protected species

The Lancet

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 08:40 PM

Against treaty we did engage in bio weapon research but failed in an ethnic weapon development. We do know how kill off the young or the old and even specific middle age people.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:40 PM

Unresolved is probably a safer answer than yea or nay

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ethnic_bioweapon

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:44 PM

pfr racial specific virus have been researched most heavily, believe it or not. As it turns out, specific ages are far more reliably infected than race specific engineered viral infections. But that was then, this is now. Maybe there have been 'new breakthroughs'.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: peteglasgow
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 02:54 PM

while we can feel very sorry for chinese folk and i'm sure they are worried. here in england we have a 'benefits' system for people on hard times that is far more dangerous and responsible for many more deaths. and they don't have to suffer ians or ian duncan shit

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 02:12 PM

An B - I'm English, my mrs is Welsh..

Her proud claims to be 100% celtic are dubious at best...
I know my DNA is a mash up..

Either way, a nasty virus can kill us both equally as effectively.....

Unless bugs are competing to score extra points for culling specific racial demographic victims...???


[cue.. more conspiracy theories about genetically engineered covert bio warfare viruses...]

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 02:00 PM

Robomatic, 27th Jan., 07-00:

Given that many of the administrators of the Raj were Scots (let alone the soldiers), interesting in these "pluralistic" days that it's still not problematic to refer solely to the English. Some are more equal than others.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:59 PM

The police drivers could have got out for a smoke with the Coachie,
out of sight of press cameras..

Maybe a layby burger van with a long queue within cough and spit distance...

This is Britain after all.. we don't see any point in all that PC health and safety hygiene nonsense...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:54 PM

Did anyone else notice, in the videos of the coaches taking the British returnees from the airport to their quarantine accommodation, the incongruity of a passenger wearing a haz-mat suit sitting on the front seats, whilst the driver was wearing his usual clothing?

There were similar "incongruous" photos released during the Skripal, affair.

It does make you wonder about the script we are being fed.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:44 PM

...there was a police escort.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:59 AM

My first office job 40 years ago involved reading maps
to plot the most direct cost effective travel itineraries for coach drivers..

I was young and green, and diligently planned the most logical routes,
which I passed to managers for approval.
My work was immediately returned and I was instructed that the drivers won't comply.
In reality I need talk to them individually about the roads they want to travel on, and where they want to stop for rests.
Because all the drivers have 'personal interests and business' they need to conduct
whilst out on the road transporting holiday makers...

If things haven't changed much since then,
that quarantine coach driver might have stopped and got out at several locations,
for a smoke and banter with other drivers, go for comfort breaks in cafes and girlfriends houses,
do dodgy deals with regular customers out of the luggage compartments,
and have viral contact with loads of random mates from the airport to the emergency zone hospital...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:58 AM

I saw this on the BBC News. Apparently, the person in the hazmat suit in the front seat was a special healthcare professional, who was primed ready to assist if any passenger became ill in transit.
The drivers were told that, since the passengers were behind them, there was minimal risk to their catching anything. I find this extremely bizarre. Afterwards, the drivers would be quarantined at home for 10 days. (Gaily infecting their families?!) I'd have refused this job if I'd been a driver.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:31 AM

Did anyone else notice, in the videos of the coaches taking the British returnees from the airport to their quarantine accommodation, the incongruity of a passenger wearing a haz-mat suit sitting on the front seats, whilst the driver was wearing his usual clothing?

WT Actual F?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:32 AM

Conspiracy theories abound...

well timed Chinese pandemic in relation to Trump's trade war...

USA black ops bat infects patient zero...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:06 AM

I strongly recommend that Americans get their doctors to prescribe up to a year in the future for common ongoing prescriptions because availability may be severely curtailed due to import disruptions as described on MSNBC.

I don't know about the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:30 PM

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2231453-new-coronavirus-may-be-much-more-contagious-than-initially-thought/?utm_campaign=on

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:28 PM

ahem.. this one...

Back in the late 80s - same time as when I drank frequently in Barking pubs..
I was having a few months fling with an older woman from Hong Kong,
she was a daughter of a high up affluent Hong kong family..

On the subject of Chinese eating weird stuff,
she said her old dad was reputed to impress his posh rich business chums
by providing meals of live monkey brains...

[illegal then, if I recall right..]

Never knew whether that was true, or she was just playing up to oriental stereotypes to have a laugh..

But she did know the best Chinatown restaurants to take me out to...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:26 PM

see my errmmm.. intentional clever crossover in the Bertie Russell thread...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:10 PM

"why can't they eat proper grub from supermarkets and fast food takeaways...???"

Reminds of Billy Connolly ridiculing trawlermen for going out in dangerous, stormy conditions by asking why they don't just go to the fish shop like everybody else...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:08 PM

What makes this brand new corona virus so contagious is that it can infect others -before- symptoms appear.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:00 PM

I just had an interesting conversation with a fellow American who emigrated from Vietnam. He is of the opinion that the world has benefitted greatly from English cultural (colonial?) influence and currently from what is effectively pax Americana whether the U.S. is trying to do this or not is a separate issue. The fact of the U.S. being large and relatively just is what makes the world work in his opinion. This comes with a healthy credit to the Judeo-Christian religion which for him provides an ethical basis not found in the eastern religions. He would rather have American/ English unitary cultural influencee over other smaller world countries than Indian/ Chinese/ gulp Russian.

I agree with much but not all of what I'm synopsizing above. If I weighed in personally I would make this conditional on multiple levels and it would be ten times as long as it is. I did have an Indian roommate in school who made no bones about the fact that India would not be a united nation if it hadn't been for the English.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 12:58 PM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-outbreakchinese-live-animal-markets-recipe-disaster/

why can't they eat proper grub from supermarkets and fast food takeaways...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 08:43 AM

For not being omnicient, your pound of flesh is in the mail.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:15 AM

Ah, so you now accept that it is a 3-4% mortality rate, not the 1 in 3 that you originally claimed.
Better late than never.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:06 AM

Corrections;
the incubation period is 5 to 15 days
The 3-4% mortality rate is dominant over the worst possible strain
however this is 3 times as deadly as the flu.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 06:01 AM

I did not know that :^?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 07:01 PM

/Chomolungma

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 06:52 PM

You can't blame us for the cognitive bias of illusory superiority that comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability.
You may as well expect a fish to know the geography of Everest.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 05:36 PM

I guess you never made top of the class for comprehension

I guess you never even made the class for clarity.
Dunning-Kruger applies.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 03:00 PM

Agreed - and increasingly Chinese in other areas or China, too, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 02:50 PM

I do hope wherever they are they are flourishing, WalkaboutsVerse. Betty's Chinese name meant 'There is a fairy in the moon'!! Isn't that lovely? (Most Hong Kong people have an English name as well as a Chinese one)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:28 PM

Maybe they safely repatriated, Senoufou - certainly a beautiful part of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:22 PM

I had a very dear friend when I was at Edinburgh University, called Betty Ko. She was from Hong Kong, and her family had fled from Canton.
Her father was a wealthy businessman, and after being established in Hong Kong he sent his two daughters to UK to be educated in a Catholic boarding school.
Betty was delightful, and taught me Cantonese. She explained how dangerous it had been for them all, and both she and her sister Susan (another one, I seem to collect Susans!) eventually graduated in Mathematics, Susan from London University.
I do feel they would all have been killed or incarcerated in a frightful Chinese Gulag type of place if they hadn't fled.
Sadly I lost touch with her, but I often think of the Ko family, and hope all went well for them in life.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 11:56 AM

"If you can't be British you'd better go back to being Chinese?" (SRS)...pretty much what Gandhi advocated upon repatriating from South Africa to south Asia; as we type, maybe there is a HK Chinese about to repatriate and make a good difference..?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 11:15 AM

It's the self-promotion and bad poetry that is as off-putting as the weird political views. A package deal. And the hubris of suggesting that from your position you can (or should) teach the people of Hong Kong anything that really galls. Reverse-colonization? If you can't be British you'd better go back to being Chinese?

There was a National Public Radio story from Snohomish County, Washington to do with a case of the coronavirus (no transcript yet as I post this).

"Seattle-area health providers monitoring the first confirmed U.S. cases of coronavirus say they're equipped to handle the contagious disease after last year's wave of measles."

The antivaxxers seem to have set up conditions so that healthcare providers responding to the recent measles outbreak in unvaccinated children were ready for the coronavirus as well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 10:13 AM

Stable enough to know I'm not currently winning, Mossback:

Since "Repatriating - Australia to England" in 1997, there has been record amounts of the opposite - economic/CAPITALIST immigration - in both countries...and, sadly, record amounts of terrorism in both countries.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 09:34 AM

Walkabouts not saying I agree but you helped me understand. Thank you for that. More later mebbe.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 09:29 AM

BA Degree in Humanities (majoring in anthropology), higher certificate in management, trade certificate, etc., and travel on a shoe-string through about 40 countries, including a stop-over in Honk Kong, China, last December.

I'm so impressed I could just shit. I assume you're a Very Stable Genius into the bargain?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 04:41 AM

Robo and SRS: BA Degree in Humanities (majoring in anthropology), higher certificate in management, trade certificate, etc., and travel on a shoe-string through about 40 countries, including a stop-over in Honk Kong, China, last December.

From that visit, where as I wanted dim sum and Chinese opera, most younger folk there want French restaurants and ballet or jazz funk and hip-hop.

The "Chinese Communist Party" is now a capitalist party, allowing not just millionaires but billionaires.

If you reflect back to the protests, many were wielding American and UK flags so, as I say, F2F and through social media, "I've at least tried to encourage citizens of Hong Kong (or those who see themselves that separate way) to accept that they are Chinese (British imperialism was evil) and fight to make all of China a better place/help get rid of the Chinese Capitalist Party."

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 10:28 PM

Doctor approved wear for the pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 10:21 PM

Oh my God! I just had dinner in an Oriental restaurant! I'm gonna die! I'm gonna die!

Come to think of it, Steve Chang hasn't been home to Cambodia in years. Maybe I'm safe.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 10:09 PM

The Lunatic Fringe has been heard from, robomatic. Nothing to see there.

There were several cases of ebola in the Dallas area during that big outbreak in the last decade. An African man who travelled to the Dallas area was ill and doctor who had been in Africa came home to be treated. Two nurses treating the African man were infected (due to failure of their protective clothing). It got a bit weird here, and at one point there was a big fuss when someone wanted to put down the nurse's dog because they were afraid of germs. It was a simple matter to quarantine the dog for a couple of weeks. Lots of household possessions were burned, rugs ripped out, etc. I don't know if all of that was necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 09:18 PM

wV:

Why on earth should the HK Chinese take you seriously? I have no idea what you are trying to say. In my experience Hong Kong was a source of strong anti-Taiwanese sentiment. Now they are giving major indigestion to the dictates of people who they have not elected. Maybe they found something valuable in the English experience. How DARE they!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 07:13 PM

I've at least tried to encourage citizens of Hong Kong to accept that they are Chinese (British imperialism was evil) and fight to make all of China a better place/help get rid of the Chinese Capitalist Party.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 07:01 PM

I just remember the panic that the Replicants tried to start during the last (Obama) administration when Ebola hit some
African countries. Existing somewhat primitive clinics were overrun and medical staff without protective clothing were getting sick and dying. The U.S. administration sent professionals with supplies fairly quickly and with the help of the international communicty, got it under control. Some sick Americans came to America and one rightist politician after another tried to either impede their getting home or getting to a safe harbor while blaming Obam for putting the nation at risk. I believe Chris Christie was among them.

Now there is a vaccine for Ebola.

As for coronavirus. If it makes Don'l happy to posit a coming disaster in his continuing voyage through the glory of his omniscience, let him play in the thread some more. Don't confuse him with facts or pollute his threaditudenosity with rationality. You are not wanted.

Meanwhile the mainland Chinese seem to be utilizing their one-party power of the state to put millions of potential victims into an isolation ward. Kind of like if Stalin had used his power for good, maybe. Or wanted to look like it.

That same power has also isolated millions of Chinese Muslims and one hope they are not going to experiment on them. Not that they will, but they could... That's what One Party power is all about.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 04:38 PM

.. and don't watch kung fu movies until further notice..

Unless they are made in America with American actors...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 04:18 PM

China may have been lax in prevention controls for about 30 days.(since Dec.4)
They now have hospitals full beyond capacity in the Wuhan vicinity.
The extraordinary precautions are good for everyone.

CDC is ahead of the curve, but airplanes are some of the best viral incubators we have ever invented with recycled limited air.
We should hire PFR to clean airplanes or take certain planes out of service.

A worst case scenario is no more likely than a virus mutating back out of a contagious state and becoming benign in humans. So basically the only anxiety is 'not knowing' where we are going which happens everyday anyway.

Senafou is right, but out an abundance of caution do not lick packages, do not eat packages and do not have sex with packages from Wuhan China. ;^/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 03:02 PM

That's true. During the Ebola outbreaks abroad, people round here were a bit wary in case my husband was carrying it! (There was only one confirmed case in Ivory Coast, but of course he does travel on flights to Abidjan, and on board may be Africans from several countries)
As he's 'the only black man in the village'(apologies to Little Britain) I suppose it was natural for them to be a bit concerned.

All I do (to avoid catching flu etc) is to wash my hands thoroughly once I get home from an outing to the supermarket. One can't creep about in life being fearful of dying of some awful disease.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 02:58 PM

There are a couple of cases in the US, with thousands of people travelling here from China daily.

From the Washington Post

We’re past ‘if’ on the coronavirus. We’re on to ‘how bad will it be?’

Ronald A. Klain served as White House Ebola response coordinator from 2014 to 2015 and is an adviser to the Biden presidential campaign. Nicole Lurie served as assistant secretary for preparedness and response at the Department of Health and Human Services from 2009 to 2016.

With one confirmed case on U.S. soil, more likely already here and 8,000 visitors from China arriving every day, it is already too late to avoid multiple cases of the dangerous new coronavirus in the United States. We are past the “if” question and squarely facing the “how bad will it be” phase of the response.

Thus, President Trump failed his first test in dealing with the virus, by brashly asserting that the U.S. government has the coronavirus “completely under control.” While there is no reason to panic, we simply do not know, with China’s seventh-largest city under a lockdown, how serious it will become.

The good news is that there have been substantial improvements to global and U.S. public-health systems since the related SARS virus struck in 2003. U.S. infectious disease response systems were particularly improved after the West African Ebola epidemic of 2014. The new coronavirus’s gene was sequenced rapidly, and a test to diagnose the disease has already been developed. The World Health Organization — properly criticized for a flaccid response to the 2014 Ebola outbreak — is moving quickly: organizing a response and meeting urgently to determine if a Public Health Emergency of International Concern should be declared.
But if these are reasons to avoid the kind of fear that spread in our country during the “Ebola Autumn” of 2014, there are reasons for great concern as well. Some gaps in our disease response system were patched at that time, but serious holes remain and new ones have emerged. Policymakers need to move immediately to address four particular issues in light of the new infectious virus.

Chinese city at the center of coronavirus outbreak suspends travel

First, there needs to be leadership in the White House. President Barack Obama followed his designation of an “Ebola response coordinator” in October 2014 with a permanent office on pandemic preparedness and response in 2015. While Trump maintained this structure into 2018, John Bolton abolished it when he took over as national security adviser. With threats such as the new coronavirus requiring an “all of government” response — domestic and foreign; health and security agencies; federal, state and local authorities — someone needs to be in charge at the highest level of our government. Additionally, critical organizing structures throughout the executive branch that have been weakened in recent years — including the Public Health Emergency Medical Countermeasures Enterprise — need to be reinvigorated and empowered.

Second, Congress must change the way it funds epidemic responses. Congress did move on a bipartisan basis during the 2014 Ebola outbreak to fund the Obama administration’s response plan, but even that relatively prompt action created delays in vaccine development and on-the-ground response. When it comes to making a new vaccine to stop an epidemic, developing treatments or deploying other countermeasures, funding delays mean countless people are infected or die as a result.

Last year, Congress did beef up a fund that could be tapped by the president to respond to public-health emergencies without waiting for a specific funding bill. But these funds are limited, and Congress rejected proposals for a dedicated emerging infectious disease fund that could be used to further public-private partnerships to develop diagnostics, vaccines and treatments. These shortcomings should be addressed.

Third, Congress needs to fund the full network of hospitals and treatment facilities nationwide it established after the 2014 Ebola epidemic, which enables prompt testing and isolation of patients with deadly infectious diseases. This funding is set to expire in four months, and while Congress is moving on a plan to renew the 10 most advanced such facilities, that could leave scores of American cities without the kind of testing and treatment centers that could be critical in dealing with the new coronavirus or other future threats.

Finally, policymakers in all branches and at all levels of government must let science and the best medical expertise — incomplete as it is — govern the decisions that lie ahead. The first victim of an infectious disease outbreak is often rational decision-making; fear can spread even faster than disease in an era where social media can transmit misinformation in a manner not ironically called “going viral.” Xenophobia is a particular risk; it’s unjustified when Americans returning home from a foreign trip are just as likely to carry a disease with them as immigrants or foreign tourists. Our government is filled with the best scientists, medical professionals and researchers in the world. Their expertise — not fear or politics — should guide critical decisions.

The weeks ahead will be tense and challenging. But with the right leadership, adequate funding, key investments and scientifically led decision-making, lives can be saved and the risks and damage can be reduced.

I did a long cut and paste because a lot of people hit the Post's paywall when they try to follow links.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 02:47 PM

I just read in the local news that two Bristol police stations were shut down
after a Chinese man who looked a bit unwell was arrested..

[Not joking..]

But later declared all clear...

This is how stupid xenophobic provincial panic is caused,
as no reason was given why he was arrested..
By now social media rumours must be circulating that any chinese looking person at large on the Streets of Bristol
must be reported to the police...!!!?????

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 01:50 PM

Hee hee punkfolkrocker! I'd better not tell that to my husband, he'll freak out! He's bought no end of cheap Chinese tat online, as he loves clothes. He'll be going around in a hazmat suit with a sprayer!

Seriously though, it must be dreadful for the poor Chinese, rather like populations during the Great Plague, not knowing who will be struck down next. I do sincerely pity them.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 12:57 PM

Sen - funnily enough, i was thinking most of the electrical things in our house
were made in China..

Better buy a few bottles of disinfectant to spray down the whole lot..

Can't be too careful with these sneaky foreign diseases...

They might have been lurking for years waiting for the activation signal
from their devilish Chinese communist overlord chappies...

Oh my god.. I just touched an uncleaned mouse and keyboard...!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 12:53 PM

'Experts are seeing shocking similarities between the coronavirus that has now spread beyond China and the SARS outbreak of 2003.

Like the infectious pneumonia that has killed at least 17 people, SARS was caused by a coronavirus that originated in China. But when one of the virologists who helped identify the SARS virus visited Wuhan, where this virus originated, he didn't see nearly enough being done to fight it. People were out at markets without masks, "preparing to ring in the New Year in peace and had no sense about the epidemic," Guan Yi of the University of Hong Kong's State Key Laboratory of Emerging Infectious Diseases told Caixin. Airports were hardly being disinfected, Guan continued, saying the local government hasn't "even been handing out quarantine guides to people who were leaving the city."

The city did disinfect the market where the virus has been traced to, but Guan criticized Wuhan for that, saying it hurts researchers' abilities to track down the virus's source. "I've never felt scared," Guan told Caixin. "This time I'm scared."'

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 12:48 PM

On the BBC News this evening they announced that all Coronavirus tests on suspected carriers among UK travellers have been negative, so there are no cases so far here.
But the situation in China looks dire, poor souls.

Husband asked if it might be dangerous to order goods from China online (he likes to buy clothes and trainers etc) but I told him that the virus can't live in a parcel, as it's transmitted in the air from person to person.
(Hope I'm right!)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 08:21 AM

We beat back SARS and this current response is even better, so there is plenty of room to be hopeful.
Easy now big fella.
With any viral outbreak there are several versions out there.
There are relative good ones and bad

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 08:03 AM

Stiff Brit upper lip cheerio and all that. The only one I see in a panic is you Nigel.

What I see is a NOVEL situation.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 07:54 AM

From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 07:05 PM
Nigel , without your knowing incubation time and spouting nonsense from your state news service you have drawn an ill informed conclusion.
This brand new mutated version does not obey the rules you have assumed. I thought I introduced the subject with appropriate levity.
Thats OK, I know the messenger is seldom believed.
In any disaster in the initial early stages, reported numbers are highly massaged.

I'm guessing you have no facts to base your doom-mongering on, or else you would quote them.
I, at least, found a reputable website to quote. But, despite your comment, I have not formed a conclusion. You have stated that (this) Coronavirus has a death rate of 1 in 3. That is a conclusion, although you now state that there is not the information available to be able to reach such a conclusion.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 04:25 AM

So that's OK for the demographic of Folkies then?
I guess you never made top of the class for comprehension

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3134957/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 03:52 AM

so likely underlying conditions have an impact.

So that's OK for the demographic of Folkies then?

Apparently the impact of the lock-down at Wuhan (8 Million) and neighbouring large cites is mostly all embracing, helped by the lunar new year. Maybe panic is the wrong approach, but serious caution is warranted. The Scottish cases hadn't been confirmed as the coronovirus as of last midnight (GMT), but the suspected cases were from Wuhan. And there are reckoned to be 2000 people being traced by UK authorities in connection. Some of who may have been in transit to other destinations.

Face masks are common in Wuhan right now.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jan 20 - 02:56 AM

Apparently the median age for deaths is 75, so likely underlying conditions have an impact.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 07:05 PM

Nigel , without your knowing incubation time and spouting nonsense from your state news service you have drawn an ill informed conclusion.
This brand new mutated version does not obey the rules you have assumed. I thought I introduced the subject with appropriate levity.
Thats OK, I know the messenger is seldom believed.
In any disaster in the initial early stages, reported numbers are highly massaged.

You have a case in Scotland and Ireland already.

The new rules for locking down areas of China is unique and involves 20-35 million people during a holiday month. The Great Wall is closed along with all amusement parks, theatres etc.

Incubation is 5 days and will bloom starting this weekend.

Dave: Please disregard any warning containing a spelling error but please do not try to fly to WuHan province.

I suppose many Americans don't know that 8,000 have died from the common flu this season.
1 in 3 is not as bad as the Ebola death rate which has decreased this year.

Check the language from the CDC

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 06:10 PM

It has nothing to do with us Genomes. You can't even spell it right!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 04:40 PM

The BBC quotes 26 deaths from 830 confirmed cases. This is hardly a death rate of 1 in 3.
Please don't spread doom and despondency without some simple facts.
I accept that you may have misread the BBC pageHere which states:
How deadly is it?
Twenty-six people are known to have died from the virus - 3-4% of the known cases.
But the infection seems to take a while to kill, so more of those patients may yet die.

Note that that page says 3-4%, NOT 34%

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 04:25 PM

..there are no known cures or antivirals and vaccines to treat this strain, however its DNA genome has been sent to labs worldwide.

Subject: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 04:21 PM

The spread of the human to human mutation of the Coronavirus has already put 33 million people on lockdown. Once infected there is a death rate of 1 in 3 (34 %).

Might I suggest relaxing Mudcat rules on posting to BS after the pandmic passes in 3 years.

There are currently no known antivirals or vaccines. Do not believe Trump> there are no connections to Mexican beer, in fact the disease began in snakes.