I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)

Subject: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 03:43 PM

* There's a big asterisk that goes here - this is the European and North American "World." It's the music I know, I wish there were more women on it, but I don't for ONE MINUTE think that the rest of the non-Eurocentric world would concur with this list.

Classical-Music.com posted a pernicious list today: The 50 Greatest Composers of All Time.

#50 is Rachmaninov, #1 is Bach. I'm sure there is a lot of discussion about who is missing and who doesn't belong here, or in what order.

And anyone with well-considered lists of composers from the rest of the world, feel free to share.

(Considering that many of these composers take "folk tunes" as the basis for some of their biggest hits, the discussion can also travel in those directions.)

Also - that song title from The Mikado always bugs me - because the proper name should be "I have a little list," not "I've got." It would scan just as well. And Sullivan is missing from that list.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 04:13 PM

I'm a language pedant, but I'm happy with "I've got a little list".
I agree that "I've got" (I have got) is not a good replacement for "I have", but it would be suitable for "I have been to fetch", or (at a push) "I have gotten together".
If the phrase were to be altered, I would prefer "I've made a little list". This would cover either of the alternate meanings given above, and clarify that this is a list that Koko himself has put together.
But as we don't know W S Gilbert's precise intended meaning, we need to stick to the words as written, even when modern productions change the contents of the list at will.

(My opinions only)

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 04:20 PM

I've got a little list is definitely better than any of the alternatives proposed so far in this thread. srsly. why are people proposing alternatives? why are they proposing worse alternatives???

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 05:25 PM

It's a pointless exercise, because most responders (a) don't know everything about every composer*, (b) are simply going to go for their favourites. Not possible to be objective. In terms of classical composers, there's almost a consensus abroad that Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are right up there.

I can't understand why Wagner and Britten are there in the list at all, but note my total lack of objectivity.

I listened to Benjamin Grosvenor playing Schumann's Kreisleriana yesterday, and for half an hour Schumann was my favourite composer. But Beethoven is my man. But what do I know of all those 20th century modernists? Not a lot, because I turn the radio off when they come on. It's all a bit whimsical, but I suppose whimsy is an important part of being human...

*A fellow teacher once told me that stairway To Heaven was the greatest song ever written. I asked him if he'd heard every song ever written...

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 05:46 PM

It is pointless but it's fun to read the composer's comments.
I'm not familiar with the works of many of those composers but I'm surprised to see Tchaikovsky at #32 and the omission of Gabriel Faure, I'd bump Bartok and Chopin up a few places and have Beethoven at #2 and find a spot for Einaudi.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 05:48 PM

and elevate Ralph Vaughn Williams a bit.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 05:58 PM

Gershwin should be in the top ten. Ravel is far greater than Debussy. Ligeti wrote a piece wot got used in "2001." I love Stravinsky but he's no number two. Hildegard is amazing but I don't know whether we ever hear her the way she wrote her music. Verdi should be far higher. Satie should be number 10,006. In my unconsidered and prejudiced opinion the list is a crock of shite with a few jewels glistening therein. But it's fun.

The whole of this post is "in m'humble" only.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: GUEST,Greg F.
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 06:19 PM

Composers of what, precisely, pray?

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Joe_F
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 06:25 PM

Nigel Parsons: In America, "I've got" can only mean "I have". "I have been to fetch" has to be "I've gotten".

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 06:38 PM

When I was at school many moons ago, "fetch" was a word which referred to a successful bout of masturbation. But then I'm a northerner.

I'll get me coat.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 08:29 PM

The grammatical remark was meant to be an aside, not the substance of the post.

Bernstein, John Williams, Morricone, Rimsky-Korsakov, Khachaturian, and others were popular composers who wrote music for films. Gottschalk is one of the most overlooked pianist-composers of his day (a contemporary of Chopin, who is right up there in my top five and is on this list at #20). I'd have found a way to shoehorn a few of these onto such a list.

Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, they always flirt around the top of the list. But a reason Bach is so well known now is because Mendelssohn rescued him from obscurity in the early 1800s. And he's not on the list.

Making lists is a silly thing to do - my favorite pieces are often times the ones I'm listening to now. My absolute top favorite I would listen to whenever it comes on? Beethoven's Seventh Symphony; the whole thing is great, but that second movement - it is sublime. And his Romances . . . there I go, setting myself off on a trip to YouTube.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 12:45 AM

SRS:

I have rhythm
I have music
I have daisies in green pastures
I have starlight
I have sweet dreams
I have my man
Who could ask for anything more?

Nope.
[Cringe] (grin)

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/have-got-and-have

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 06:16 AM

Beethoven 7 is what got me going on classical music in the early 70s and I've never looked back. The Andante movement is a miracle, I agree. Over the decades I've come to see the Pastoral as his symphonic masterpiece. There are so many bad versions of it around, unfortunately, especially ones that make the finale so lugubrious. For me, head and shoulders above the rest, is the performance given by Carlos Kleiber with the Bavarian State Orchestra. The orchestra recorded all its live performances, but on this occasion the tape was damaged. Miraculously, this concert was also recorded on to a C90 cassette, but it's scrubbed up well considering. Not too many allowances have to be made unless you're an audiophilic nit-picker. It was the only time in his life that he conducted the Pastoral. If you're used to those versions that go oh-so-slowly this one comes as a surprise, though he is actually adhering to Beethoven's tempo markings. It's a miracle!

What keeps Beethoven at the top of my list is mainly his late music, those five quartets, the last few piano sonatas and the Diabelli Variations. I love all the symphonies, and the Violin Concerto and the Emperor Concerto are miraculous. If you have ten minutes to spare listen to Daniel Barenboim playing the little Op. 78 sonata on Youtube. It's a wrestling match at the top for me between Beethoven and Mozart. I know a lot of Bach but I need to delve a lot more into all those cantatas and set time aside to get into those Passions. I went to a performance of the Matthew Passion many years ago. The performance had a lunch break in the middle! :-)

As for have/got/gotten, if any means of expression is common currency there's no longer a fight to be had. Mourn if you want, but mourn quietly.

Right in the middle of my typing this post, Radio 3 played Bach's Cantata no 89!

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 09:23 AM

Where is Vivaldi..? Have I missed something ? I can't believe he is not on the list . Albinoni should be as well. But, I don't know who I would remove to add them. Lists are arbitrary, aren't they.
I was very pleased to see Gershwin there. The op three or four I agree with, especially Bach, I believe he is the greatest ever.
Interesting list.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 03:56 PM

I agree with the placement of Bach (again, limited to Western music). Bach is there for more than one reason as he helped create modern Western music.

I think Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov deserves to be there as well. He wrote some good symphonies that don't seem to be performed often; he wrote many concertos and short works that live in our hearts. He orchestrated a lot of works by other composers that wouldn't be heard at all had he not made the effort.

I could nominate some on that list for pitching out but I'd place Rimsky-Korsakov so high up toward the top of the list that macht nichts. Except Rachmaninov. He deserves to be on it.

And me, I deserve to be there. I can sing Star Spangled Banner to the tune of Noel.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:14 PM

You could have added Erich Korngold to your list of film composers, Maggie.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 04:50 PM

Yes - I was casting around for it but couldn't think of his name when I was putting that short list up.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 09:32 AM

I'm getting like that too. Thank God it's not just me...

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 09:42 AM

If we're including film composers I'd add Rachel Portman and Carter Burwell.
I'd also add Turlough O'Carolan, Yann Tiersen, and George Pelecis. Of course my only criterion is what do I like to listen to.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: GUEST,Mrr inside
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:02 AM

Ah, yes, famous Me Too - era composer Ripsercorsetoff!

I thought in Gilbert and Sullivan one did the music and one did the words?

And what would Bach be doing if he were here today?
Decomposing!

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:12 AM

Hey Mrr, stop Messiaen around.

Subject: RE: I've Got A Little List ('best' composers)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:34 AM

Yes. I had Sullivan on my list as the composer.