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Origin of verb 'to gig?'
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Subject: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: WyoWoman Date: 03 Jan 00 - 06:37 PM Does anyone know where this word came from and when? Tx/ww |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: charcloth Date: 03 Jan 00 - 07:55 PM It sure didn't come from frogs! |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:04 PM I think (which means I don't know) it originated from the light and cheap horsedrawn carriage of the same name. All musicians could afford you see. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:06 PM The American Heritage Dictionary says "A job, especially a booking for a jazz musician." Perhaps that provides a lead on where to look. Roger in Baltimore |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: WyoWoman Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:17 PM Well, I know the definition, but I don't know how it came to be what it is, don' cha' know. (And yes, in my youth, the only gigging I knew applied to frogs and it wasn't very friendly, from a frog's point of view...) In the "gig from Hell" thread, it seemed as though an equal number of postings came from our neighbors in other countries, so I wondered if it was an American jazz word that's made it around the world, or if it was a British term that bounced over here... ww |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:19 PM WW, We are on the chase. You asked about the verb "to gig". It clearly comes from the noun "gig" defined above.
Murray L. Pfeffer says on his web site in discussing gig's entomology says, Of course, you may have already guessed that someone would throw sex into the issue. If the latter statement is true, what does it have to do with a job? Roger in Baltimore |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: WyoWoman Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:29 PM Oh, my lord. Well ... uh ... I guess on one level EVERYthign comes down to sex -- certainly with musicians. But, I certainly can't think of the connection, unless it derived from streetwalkers and musicians simply adopted the word for their own form of "prostitution." (Hey, I have a fertile imagination.)
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:36 PM WW, This may be the definitive information. It is provided by The Word Detective aka Evan Morris who's column appears in "finer newspapers." Obviously, they have excluded your newpaper. What's that mean?
At his web site he says the following:
"Gig," on the other hand, has remained in fairly constant use since it first appeared in its slang sense among jazz musicians in the mid-1920's. Meaning, as you say, a musician's "date" or engagement to play, "gig" is actually both a noun and a verb, though it's more common to hear a musician speak of "playing a gig" than "gigging." Though a "steady gig" is prized in the notoriously unpredictable life of a musician, the word itself carries overtones of the short-term "one-night stand." Reflecting its roots in jazz, "gig" is almost exclusively used by jazz, pop or rock musicians -- cellists play recitals or engagements, not "gigs."
Most dictionaries say that the origin of "gig" in this sense is unknown, but it really doesn't seem that great a mystery. Appearing in English in the 15th century, "gig" meant something that spins, as in "whirligig." Subsequent meanings included "joke," "merriment" and (aha!) "dance." Since playing at parties and dances is every musician's meal ticket early in their career, it's easy to see how "gig" became generalized to mean any paying job.
This information comes to you courtesy of a quick search on excite.com by Roger in Baltimore |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Dave ( the ancient mariner) Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:41 PM Landlubbers, Gig is a small boat, usually the captains boat for getting ashore from anchorage. The crew were carefully selected, because the boats condition and appearance usually gave the first good impression to people ashore. Hence a "good Gig" was a credit to her ship. A good Gigs crew were the best sailors on the ship. Musicians may have adapted the word Gig for a Small job from the sailors Gig I do not profess to know but posted this in case there is a connection. Yours, Aye. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: jeffp Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:41 PM Just to stir the imagination a bit. Could there be a possible connection to the term gigue? I remember this from my classical music days (I originally studied trombone and received a classical music education), but don't remember what it meant (the 60s were hard on us all). I have no idea if it's relevant, but can't resist posting. Somebody stop me please, before I post again! |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: WyoWoman Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:51 PM It's ok. This is an inquiry. The fun is in the process, not the product. I like the nautical interpretation -- I was all set to go with RiB's, until I read that one. Although, it probably does have more to do with dancin' than sailin'. Still, let's see what other theories are posited... It does seem to me that it's entered the common lexicon more recently. It used to be that the only people you ever heard refer to gig were musicians. (And I worked for years for the Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival -- many of the musicians most certainly did refer to their work as "gigs" -- but then, some of them also worked in other genres as well, e.g. Mark Conner, Edgar Meyer...) ww ww |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: WyoWoman Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:53 PM I mean O'Connor. Whoops. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Jon Freeman Date: 03 Jan 00 - 08:54 PM My dictionary (Chambers 20th Century English) has 2 entries for gig. The first, a flighty girl, a light 2 wheeled carrage, a long light boat and a machine for separating the nap from cloth, is given as being derived from Middle English gigge (a whilrling thing). The second entry is for the noun and the verb as in a band playing and it says that the etymology is unknown. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Gary T Date: 03 Jan 00 - 09:00 PM Well, it's been alluded to but not said directly--"gig", so I've been told, is short for "engagement", obviously coming from the accented "-gage-" syllable. It thus started out as a noun, but over the years also acquired verb status. Since I don't have any written sources to back this up, I can only make the case by appealing to logic--there are any number of words that have mutated over time, usually getting shortened to accomodate the laziness of human nature, and jazz musicians as a group were probably not overly compulsive about precise diction. Makes sense to me, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: stupidbodhranplayerwhodoesn'tknowanybetter Date: 04 Jan 00 - 05:56 PM There is some speculation that the term "jig" came from an old French term 'gigue' or something like that. I don't know if there is a connection, but to many old folk musicians, dances were their only paid perfomances, therefore would be a "gig". Slan, Rich |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Date: 04 Jan 00 - 06:09 PM Random House, 1966 says,
1)light boat; light one-horse carriage; to ride in a gig [ME gigge, gig flighty girl,?
2) spearlike device from fizgig
3) an official report of a minor infraction of regulations, as in school, the army, etc.
4) the term we all know from jazz
gigue (zh-long e g) a dance, jig, often forming the concluding movement in the classical suite [F, also < It. giga, orig., a fiddle or lute)
From a modern French dictionary, gigue is a haunch of venison; (coll) leg; (slang)long-legged gawky girl |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Caitrin Date: 04 Jan 00 - 07:36 PM Out here on the Carolina Coast, we also have Flounder gigging (to go along with Frog Gigging) but it doesn't have anything to do with music, either. At least, not much. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: _gargoyle Date: 04 Jan 00 - 08:25 PM The Random House Dictionary of Historical American Slang1996, v.I, pp 890-891, gives detailed definitions with examples of usage for the word "gig", (1.5 pages very small print, very big pages. too much to post) in general chronological order of their appearance:
1. the vagina [orig. unkn] 1698-99
Personal notes: Surprised at the French #1-2 (I thought it was only the Greeks) that confused a vagina and an anus.
Texas A&M uses the expression "Gig em' Aggies" at football games….their use is derived from the military heritage…..ie. unpolished shoes, or an un-buttoned button is a "gig-point." aka demerit, black-mark.
BTW --- WW --- I have wonderful memories of the Santa Fe Opera (before enclosure) and a "Flying Dutchman" performance, the natural elements added their own spectacular effects with wind, lightning, lots of lightning, and a little rain.
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: emily rain Date: 04 Jan 00 - 08:31 PM oh dear, i SO don't want to be the nasty letch who read this thread and fixated on the sexual reference... but i have to know... is "giggy" as in vulva pronounced with an initial g as in "go" or g as in "giraffe"? i'm wondering if it's related to the slang phrase "to get jiggy". please understand, my curiosity is purely academic. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: emily rain Date: 04 Jan 00 - 08:37 PM gargoyle, i'm told that although "fanny" means "arse" in america, it means "vagina" in ireland. go figure. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Jon Freeman Date: 04 Jan 00 - 08:46 PM Emily, as far as I'm aware,"fanny" means "vagina" in the whole of the UK - it certainly would be taken to mean that in North Wales where I live. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: _gargoyle Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:03 PM It appears that whole English speaking world is bass-side-ackwards when it comes to vulgar slang.
Another lifetime ago, ..... |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: DougR Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:04 PM Garg: I have been led to believe that in Ireland the slang word for the part of the female anatomy is "Gee" pronounced with a hard "G". Would any of our Mudcat friends in Ireland set me and Gargoyle straight? DougR WW: Sorry I strayed from your original question. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: JedMarum Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:12 PM interesting turn of commentary in this thread! but I can't add to the learned comments on vulva, vagina, fanny or other such bits of interest ... but I had always presumed that 'gig' was short for engagement, as has been cited by several others above. It makes sense. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Brendy Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:24 PM I'm from the North, and sometimes it would be referred to a 'Gee', the 'G' as in GO! Probably more dialectic than anything else, really. However me oul' boy used to ask me if I had a 'jig' tonight (pronounced as spelt). I thought he was just trying to be 'hip' to the lingo. Should have asked him really. 'Fanny' is indeed the 'Gee'. Maybe it's called 'Gee' because that may well be what one would say upon viewing it! B. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Remi From Paris Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:58 PM In French the "jig" - danced throughout Europe is spelled "Gigue". Might be an origin of the word... |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: MMario Date: 04 Jan 00 - 10:11 PM I never thought about this much until the topic was raised on another forum. I grew up in an area where frog gigging was known, but gigging for herring was common. a hooked spear (technically a gaff, I believe, but called a "gig") is used to pull the herring out of the runs by their gills. At that time at least, nets were illegal during the run and spawning herring won't take a hook (or so I'm told)) I always assumed that it was a "gig" because the musician was using his performance to "hook" in money (tips). Odd that none of the frog/fish "gig" definitions seem to have made the books... at least from the above examples, though I can see one definition that enters the realm... |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Sandy Paton Date: 05 Jan 00 - 01:15 AM I dunno, but I always liked musician/Mudcatter Joan Sprung's reference to a "small gig" as a "giggle." Works for me! Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Helen Date: 05 Jan 00 - 01:29 AM In Oz the word fanny refers to vagina, too. The British influence preceded the American influence there. Helen |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Date: 05 Jan 00 - 08:54 AM MMario, perhaps that is where the "hook" in a song comes from. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: WyoWoman Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:43 AM Remind me not to discuss my "fanny pack" when I'm anywhere but in the U.S. of A. This is such an interesting discussion -- I suppose the conclusion it's leading me to is that the term "to gig" has been in the language for a very long time, probably having to do with "a job, an occupation" and maybe having come from the word for the female anatomy, then having to do with prostitution, then meaning a job, then jazz musicians took it up to describe their paying jobs, then blues musicians took it, whereby it was transmitted to rock musicians and then, ka-BOOM, in the '60s and '70s, as with so much in popular culture at the time, it became part of the language of the streets, then part of everyday speech. And now, we have lawyers, doctors, journalists-for-sure and, I'd imagine, the occasional Indian chief referring to their work as a gig. Ain't language a kick? ww |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 05 Jan 00 - 01:06 PM Ladies and Gentlemen, The discussion of anatomy could benefit from learned study; we appear to be suffering what Winston Churchill would have refered to as "Terminological Inexactituted" so for your edification and delight (sung to Gilbert and Sullivans Constabulary Duties)and not the Secret Policemans other Ball. Yours, Aye. Dave THE DOCTOR'S LAMENT The portions of a woman that appeal to Man's depravity Are fashioned with considerable care; And what at first appears to be a common little cavity Is really an elaborate affair. Now doctors of distinction have examined these phenomena In numbers of experimental dames And given to these ornaments of feminine abdomena A number of delightful Latin names: There's the vulva, the vagina and the jolly perineum And the hymen in the case of certain brides; And there's lots of other gadgets you'd just love if you could see'em The clitoris and Christ knows what besides Now isn't it a pity that when common people chatter Of the mysteries to which I have referred That they give to this so vital and so elegant a matter Such a very short and unattractive word. The Layman's Reply The eminent authorities who study the geography Of this obscure but interesting land Are able to indulge a taste for feminine topography And view the graphic details close at hand. We ordinary people, though aware of the existence Of complexities beyond the public knowle Are usually content to view the details from a distance And treat them, roughly speaking, as a whole. Moreover when we laymen probe the depths of femininity We exercise a simpler form of touch And do not cloud the issue with superfluous minutia But call the whole concern a such-and-such. For men have made this useful but inelegant commodity The subject of innumerable jibes And while the name they call it by is something of an oddity It seems to fit the object it describes. The Woman's Retort You erudite philosophers are really rather comical Despite your pseudoscientific facts, For all your heated arguments on matters anatomical Have very little bearing on your acts. You may agree to differ and make learned dissertations On the relative importance of a name, But we women find that when it comes to intimate relations You reactions are essentially the same. Moreover when you analyze, in phrases too meticulous Our relatively simple little vent You overlook the verbiage, so rude and so ridiculous Which designates the gadgets of a gent. But then perhaps it's 'cause you find the emblems of virility So very, very difficult to hide, That your jealousy induces you to scoff at our ability To tuck away our privacies inside. @medicine @sex filename[ NAMEANAT RG
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Micca Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:39 PM I wonder if at least part of the vaginal reference might not relate to the pre-historic clay female figures found throughout neolithic Europe (but mostly in Ireland) with raised knees and very exagerated vaginas which are always referred to as "Sheila-na-gig" which the usualy render as "sheila of the large vagina" |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:45 PM Micca, I think you have just enlightened the world, given us the key to decode the Australian langage. Yours, Cordially, Aye. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Margo Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:07 PM FASCINATING, WONDERFUL! This really is a kick. Yes, language can be construed wrongly because of the vernacular changing from location to location. I had a friend, who when down, was told by a Brit to "keep your pecker up". Of course, she was referring to her chin, not male anatomy. The kicker of the whole situation was that the friend who was down went by the nickname "Muff". Go figure. I'm sitting here chuckling as I write... Seeing all the definitions of gig, I think probably the answer to the question of it's origin as a musician's job is more mundane and unexciting and not so mysterious. If Garg's dictionary is somewhere correct about the date of it's usage that way, then I would guess it started as some colloquial expression and spread. Look at the way our new gadgets and phenomenae get named and how fast, because of technology, the expressions are adopted by whole countries. Margo |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Brendy Date: 05 Jan 00 - 08:47 PM Try singing Margo's post to the tune of 'Constabulary duties to be done'! |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: _gargoyle Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:30 PM Dave... ............now THAT .................. is a real addition to the DT files |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Steve Parkes Date: 06 Jan 00 - 03:25 AM WyoWoman, if you're in the UK you'd call your FP a bum bag. Many people over here fondly (but mistakenly!) believe this is from the US word bum meaning hobo or tramp, instead of the Norse or Anglo-Saxon word meaning, well, bum; and follow the practice of wearing them at the front instead of the back ... so I suppose we could call 'em ... no, that doesn't sound like a good idea! Steve |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Penny S. Date: 06 Jan 00 - 12:13 PM Sporrans |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: annamill Date: 06 Jan 00 - 12:49 PM The feeling I get (since we're only speculating anyway) is that it would come from the word "gigue (zh-long e g) a dance, jig". I can hear a musician saying "I have a dance to do tonight" or " I have to go to a dance tonight" using the word gigue. "I have a gigue to do tonight" or "I have to go to a gigue tonight". I don't know. That seems to make sense. Love, annap |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 06 Jan 00 - 08:11 PM Maybe some kind person would advise Timbrel of "The Doctors Lament" she may care to sing it in a pub version. Yours, Aye. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: WyoWoman Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:19 PM A Lady Sporran? Sporanette? Sporanna? (I sing sporanna, but I sure can't spell ...) A tummy pack? (Perfect gear for wandering far afield, as we have, and so often do...) I had a friend from England who, on her first night here in the states, asked her landlord to "knock her up around 7 in the morning..." She said he looked for a moment as though he'd like nothing better until he discovered she only meant she'd like to be wakened at that time... ww |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: sophocleese Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:25 PM Dr. Suess' Sleep Book uses the word fanny to mean the bum. My English cousin had to leave the room when his wife read the book to my kids because he was laughing so hard. |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Muriel Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:15 AM |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Muriel Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:19 AM I always spelled the fish-catching variety of "gig" with a "j", as in "squid-jigging." And the expression "Sweet Fanny Adams" has a whole new meaning for me now. Also the "Man in the Ice" who was discovered a few years ago, dating from about 5000 years ago, if I remember correctly, was wearing what amounted to a fanny pack, or bum bag if you prefer. Wonder what HE called it? |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Cap't Bob Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:54 AM I really don't know if this would have any connection to the meaning of the word gig but it could possibly provide some connection between the frog/fish gigging and the musical gig. There have been times when we have played for money in a fish bowl. The band usually has to provide their own fish bowl on these occasions. It usually helps to put a few bucks in the fish bowl so the audiance gets the idea and/or their attention. ~~ In ice fishing, jigging means to bounce the bait up and down to get the attention of the fish. If you see any sexual connection here it's your idea not mine.... Cap't Bob |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: emily rain Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:10 AM i no longer have any worries about being the lone nasty letch. thank you all. and now i know. : ) |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: WyoWoman Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:28 AM Well, bounce my bait, matey! You gonna play that thing or just dance a gig ... er, uh, jig ... uhn ... nivver mind
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Pete peterson Date: 07 Jan 00 - 04:39 PM I just sang it through to the tune which I call "A policeman's lot is not a happy one" and have lost it about 6X laughing while doing so. I'm going to have to print it out and learn it. Thanks. Thread creep-- God(dess) bless it! |
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Subject: RE: Origin of verb 'to gig?' From: Micca Date: 07 Jan 00 - 10:18 PM Muriel, for heavens sake do not start this lot on the origins of "Sweet Fanny Adams" |
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