BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 08:05 AM

Actually I was being mostly serious, Steve. It goes beyond perceptions, who knows how any of us are going to be in our 80's, if we make it that far.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 07:47 AM

maybe to keep from crying.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 07:46 AM

I love the humour there but somehow I can't laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 07:41 AM

Plus Bernie and Biden would be in their 80's before their first term was out and Warren in her mid-70's. We don't need to recreate the Politburo.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 07:32 AM

I agree with that. The best chance of ousting Trump is to put up a young and dynamic candidate. You really do have to ditch people who look old and worn out, whether they are or not. This is serious.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 06:59 AM

I've disqualified Biden, Sanders and Warren from consideration due to age (think of the orange turd as a cautionary tale, although he's unqualified in so many other ways). Pete Buttigieg is the way forward for me. Though I believe in the liberal , people-oriented policies espoused by Sanders and Warren I'm not looking for an ideologue as president, I want someone who aspires to govern all the populace and not one who appeals to the basest instincts of about 40% of it, like the nitwit we have now.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 06:44 AM

I was hoping for a Warren VP candidate last time

Like Biden, I think she missed her ideal time

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Feb 20 - 04:30 AM

I suppose what I'd say, is that if Senators Warren and Sanders propose their proposals in the Senate, I'll support them wholeheartedly. They have great ideas. If they hold those ideas as a platform as presidential candidates, I would be very much afraid of Trump winning. That's why I want a moderate Presidential candidate, and that's why I liked Obama so much. The alternative is Trump, and that scares me to death,
.
Joe

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 11:33 PM

Well, I get upset by all the back-and-forth accusations here. In the end, I decided Elizabeth Warren is the best candidate. For a number of reasons, I've never donated to political candidates before. But this year, I sent off $100 to Elizabeth Warren. I hope she prevails.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 09:42 PM

Somebody here is being bloody stupid. Not my gig, of course. Honestly, whoever you are, you really do have better things to do....

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 05:06 PM

Honesty is the best policy here and elsewhere.
I had no reason to ever attempt to influence elections in your country.
Iains let me be the first to introduce you to the golden rule.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 04:16 PM

Anything that may represent support of republicans is promptly deleted.
How are you going to deal witth it when Trump is re elected?

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 11:51 AM

During these past four years,
the "Me Too" / "Time's Up" causes have
made a lot of people look carefully
at respect or disrespect for women.

No, I am NOT saying that Bernie Sanders
is a predator ... not at all.
But the public gaze at the treatment of women
has a more glaring spotlight trained thereon.

Maybe Mr. Sanders is too old to change his ways,
that is true of many registered voters his age after all.
And so, as a candidate,
he may not be able to respond carefully and thoughtfully
to the concerns of
1)    candidates who happen to be women
2)    registered voters who happen to be women
3)    participants of any/no gender who want respect for all regardless of gender

so we will see how this plays out.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 10:35 AM

One person alone (seemingly) can't do it, though Trump is aiming at single-handedly getting everyone into a shooting war over there. The big money behind paying for elections comes from the general direction of pro-Israel and fundamental-Christian groups who will hear nothing of Israel being slapped down or restricted from misbehaving.

Hillary did a remarkable job as Secretary of State, and brokered many peace deals. This one was beyond everyone's reach, and I imagine it will take a while once Trump is ousted to get back to a point where the illegal settlements can finally be discussed rationally and those individuals evicted from Palestinian territory, that will then be returned to Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 05:28 AM

Well yes, some rose-tinted specs coming out re Obama. I'd also add that the one Big Thing he should have done, and he did have eight years, was to put right the injustices meted out over many decades to the Palestinians, and he didn't. The running sore that is at the root of so much that's wrong with the world. Like all your presidents, he was manacled to multinationals, the oil industry and the pro-Israel and gun lobbies. The best that can be said is that we over here felt just that bit safer under him and Bill Clinton than we did under Reagan, Bush Jr and the current clown. And I know that feelings aren't everything.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Iains
Date: 10 Feb 20 - 03:18 AM

The Republicans have Trump, The Democrats infighting.
Hardly a recipe for success.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 10:20 PM

Gee, some people sure are putting words in my mouth, and it tastes like bullshit. It certainly isn't fair play. Please respond to what I say, not to what your prejudices make you imagine I might say. I do think that if the Democrats go too far to the left and exclude the moderates, we're in for another four years of Trump. I'm scared of the damage than could be done in four more years of Trump. Obama didn't accomplish all we hoped he would do, but everything he did was good. Better that, than four years of Trump.

I said above that I like the vast majority of ideas that Sanders and Warren have proposed. I just don't think they can get them enacted, and then we're stuck with all the damage Trump has done to systems that have taken decades to build. The first matter of business, if Trump is defeated, is to undo the damage he did, especially to the environment and to immigrants.

-Joe-

P.S. Donuel, I think Lindbergh was a pretty good pilot, but not a political genius.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: khandu
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 07:33 PM

khandu on a stick. Yeah, that's a good one.
k

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 06:43 PM

Mossback; that is a reasonable but daunting request.

Afterall Joe thinks Lindberg was an American patriot.

Mossback whenever you refer to any right wing populist/asshole, I ask you use these special three little words after their name to describe them from now on
'on a stick'

let language paint pictures

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 06:03 PM

Joe, you seem to have swallowed the ridiculous Trumpist canard hook, line, and sinker, that the Democratic Party is "The Radical Far Left" and that Sanders & his ilk are Communist Revolutionaries.

Do yourself a favor & review U.S. political history beginning with Reagan & down to the present day to give yourself a fair sense of proportion.

Said review wouldn't do the 40% of the U.S. population that are Trump Cultists, white supremacists and other species of moron any good, but I have higher hopes for you.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 05:39 PM

Like Steve said "they are moderates"
Joe you see a flat field with a 50 yard line that has been moved to the 10 yard line of the Right.

I see a dynamic pendulum that is about to swing back Left.
The Dems could still miss their putt.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 05:31 PM

And yes, I like the proposals of Sanders and Warren very much. They are what I would consider to be ideal. But I don't think they are politically feasible at this time - so to support them, is to end up with nothing (or with Trump).

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 04:56 PM

I'm scratching my head as to why any of you yanks think that Bernie/Elizabeth are "extreme" and that you somehow need a new moderate middle. This side of the Big Non-muddy they would both be regarded as barely left of centre. They ARE your moderates.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 04:44 PM

Its up to the Democrats to miss another 2 inch putt, and they know how to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 04:23 PM

Joe you are 2 dimensional and see a 50 yard line that has been moved to the 10 yard line of the Right.

I see a dynamic pendulum that is about to swing back Left.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 04:12 PM

It seems to me that the real power in the Republican Party is on the right, and the real power in the Democrats on the left. Both parties seem to be demanding strict adherence to their party line. But I think a lot of us are in the middle and don't find satisfying or realistic answers on either extreme. I like Sanders and Warren a lot, but I don't think their proposals are realistic. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are much closer to my ideal for a President, but Barack has done his time and Hillary is out of favor.
Is there a need for a Moderate Party in the United States? Is there such a thing in the multi-party atmosphere of the UK and other parliamentary national governments?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 02:58 PM

FDR’s third-term election and the 22nd amendment

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 02:23 PM

This is abnormal?
It would be abnormal if FDR were running for his 22nd term.
In his time it was legal to serve multiple terms.
Of course mortality plays its independant role in history.
If there was a tweet order of succesion would we be looking at Kushner or Don Jr.?   

But enough hypotheticals.

In Bill Clinton's 1st term people thought it was abnormal to put Hillary in charge of revolutionizing Health Care. Marriage rights is greater than the Constitution??
The precedent was JFK hiring his brother as AG. Nepotisim was OK said JFK.
But marriage? A full blown war against Hillary began back then in earnest and went over the top. These days the war is a habit like a feud.
Now you know when it started.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 01:23 PM

The trend of electing "Populist" (non-government-trained television celebrities) is happening in much of the world. It's damned scary. If people don't know how agencies work, how to write a bill, how to work the room and foster compromise, then government is not working. At least Hillary and Bernie both know how government works, likable or not. It shouldn't be a popularity contest, it should be an event in which intelligence matters, ability matters. Character matters.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 12:25 PM

The subject of this thread is Hillary vs Bernie. Let's get back to it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 11:49 AM

I met a moustachioed, baseball cap-wearing old yank in Sicily last summer. He also told me that he and his wife had proudly voted Trump. They were by a country mile the two stupidest people I met all last year. I didn't debate them, mainly but not exclusively because I had to keep them away from an almost insanely-furious Scotsman who had also been listening to them.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 11:38 AM

Well khandu, that screed is just about the equal to any of your hero Trump's demented lies and fact-free childish tirades.

I'd have to give you an "Excellent" rating for getting every single point you've made completely and utterly ass-backwards.

I will not debate you. I am not trying to change your mind. You can't cure stupid. You have stated your thoughts, I have stated mine.

Enjoy watching the country go to hell in a bucket.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: khandu
Date: 09 Feb 20 - 10:23 AM

"It's a new game under Trump, and it has completely befuddled the American political system."
I agree with that statement, Joe. Then I believe the opposite of everything that followed.
I voted Trump in 2016. I proudly will do the same in 2000.
Yes, he is abnormal if you consider the insanity of the "Old Rules" normal.
The old rules have been counter productive for decades. A continuation of them will eventually strip or, at the least, severely limited every right the founding fathers spelled out in our constitution. The things written there are the real "Old Rules" that we should bring back.
It Trump the answer? I doubt it. But he has, at least temporarily, derailed the idiot train we've been riding too long.
So I strongly disagree with almost all of you who have posted on this thread. I will not debate any of you. I am not trying to change your view. You have stated your thoughts. I have stated mine.
khandu

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 06:17 PM

I thought it would be worthwhile to post an excerpt from the Hillary Clinton interview that keberoxu referred to in the first post:

When I lost, I was obviously stunned, disappointed, terribly upset. If I had lost to what I would call a "normal" Republican with whom I disagreed on many things, but who I thought cared about the country and put service over self, I would probably still speak out and say, "We don't agree about that." But this is abnormal, what we currently have. We should never allow it to be normalized. I thought for a brief moment between the election and the inauguration that he might be awed by the responsibility of the job, and really try to grow into it. As he had admitted, there were a lot of things he didn't know about the job. But then when he gave his inauguration [speech] and insisted on lying about the crowd size? I've been to every inauguration for 25 or so years; he did not have a very big crowd. And I said, "What's wrong with him? What's wrong with the people that he has around him who he's making go out on TV and say it was the biggest crowd?" It really bothered me because I thought, "That's delusional." It's one thing to have a set of policies that you disagree with, but to have someone following the kind of authoritarian playbook to disrupt reality, to try to force you to believe what he wants you to believe by distracting, diverting and continually lying? That's different. We haven't ever had to deal with that.

It's a new game under Trump, and it has completely befuddled the American political system. Before Trump, there was an element of truth and trust in American politics, even among opponents. Now it's all out the window, and we need to learn how to bring back the Old Rules. We certainly can't survive long under the New Rules Trump has set.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 05:53 PM

I don't have Hulu, but have heard reviews of that documentary, where the history of the remark was featured. Bernie did have some trouble last year with complaints about how he ran previous campaigns in relation to how the women were treated.

Frankly, I think Biden and Sanders are too old to run and have reasonable expectations of full healthy terms. Warren is a few years younger than the other two, I think similar in age to Hillary (who would now be anticipating running for a second term if she had been inaugurated.)

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 10:00 AM

Hey, wait!   Years ago?

The interview in support of the Hulu network documentary
is a recent interview,
in which the interviewer asked if Clinton stood by that opinion now,
and Clinton was affirmative. And detailed and specific in her response,
about Sanders' disrespect of candidates who happen to be women.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 09:56 AM

Context is everything. The Clinton remark about Bernie appears to have been many years ago, but dredged up recently. Care to guess who is stirring the pot?

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 09:41 AM

You are too right, Donuel,
if the Clinton/Sanders discord has been established fact for years,
then I am out of touch as usual.

All these "opportunities for learning and growth" overwhelm one.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 08:38 AM

I am assured Mr Trump will eventually blame the previous administration for the coming pandemic by tweet or speech. If most Americans believe him, I will be resigned that this country deserves decimation.

We will begin again with proof of the need for improved public education and the evils of the new Facebook religion.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 08:20 AM

Trump will win with even larger numbers come November and that will make your arguments even more ridiculous.

Not because he is compelling, but because he has a divided opposition.
Like Brexshit, that augered for a Trump victory, so Corbyn's stance should warn the US. Trump may surprise again, by loosing, we are living in interesting times. All bets are off, or unwise at least.

Come back Obama, common sense and optimism is sorely needed again.

Be afraid America, be very afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 20 - 02:57 AM

If his opponent is a woman (or maybe even a gay man), Trump will try his creepy "hovering" act. It is intimidating and demeaning, but powerful if he's not forced to stop it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 11:35 PM

Pretty much.

The candidates this time around know that anything they sling at each other could be ammunition for Trump, he will use it (and make up shit also). I didn't hear tonight's debate but understand that Klobuchar and Warren did very well for their respective positions. Whoever wins the nomination needs to know how to verbally take Trump off at the knees, to ignore some of his shit and denounce other parts of it. And if he lurks too close behind during the debates like he did to Hillary, turn around and tell him to back off. (I'd love to see him get a knee to the groin, but that won't happen on a debate stage.)

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 09:08 PM

thats OK mg
Objectively Hillary is very talented but subjectively she became toxic via brainwashing the unwashed public.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: mg
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 08:51 PM

no. I will speak for myself. Thank you anyway. I have a gut feeling and that is about it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 08:23 PM

A friend saw Hillary on the "ELLEN" show either yesterday or today. Said she did a good job for herself.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 08:15 PM

We are scathed and scalded already.

I'm sure you can see;

Bernie is a flawed candidate to agists.
Pete is a flawed candidate to homophobes.
Eleanor is flawed to billionaires.

Bloomberg will pick up the pieces the others will drop.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And by the way, the Bloomberg people liked my idea of comedic political ads and is now running them. They are starting with cute and cuddlely anti Trump humor.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


The Clinton Sanders tiff is decades old. If it is news to you, better late than never.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: vectis
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 07:44 PM

Saunders and Biden are far too old to be taking on a presidency. Surely, after four bloody years of the drump, the democrats could have found a decent middle aged candidate to run against him. I foresee another run for the tangerine tw*t and I am not sure that the USA will survive that unscathed.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 07:39 PM

I was listening to the wrap-up of the impeachment hearings on Wednesday and one of the commentators remarked that until Trump arrived the racist xenophobic population that supports him didn't have a voice. Now they're all over the place and energized. With any of the other candidates, or going back to previous GOP candidates Romney or McCain, they would have remained voiceless. McCain corrected followers who had racist things to say about Obama during his campaign.

A long time ago there were people who knew how smart Hillary is and who worried about a political career - and worked to slam her in the "vast right wing conspiracy" that she referred to. It was real. Richard Scaife and his horrible sister Cordeila were behind it. Those negative remarks will have been what MG heard and responded to - if you don't look beyond the propaganda you end up with the wrong information.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 05:48 PM

as I was saying:

The Bernie Sanders assessment was what made me stop and think,
as this is relevant to 2020 -- very relevant.

It is especially relevant to Massachusetts, of which I am amongst the voters.
I have been sitting back and listening/reading as the Massachusetts radio stations, newspapers, and weblogs pay attention to Bernie Sanders. I had a sense that a score was being kept.

Remember, only four years ago -- there are old Mudcat threads to prove it -- people were saying that there ought to be a Hillary/Bernie ticket?
So, now we know what Hillary REALLY thinks of Bernie Sanders.
And this made me consider how seriously Massachusetts, not to speak of other states hereabouts, takes its senators.

Elizabeth Warren, don't forget, is one of the MA senators.
The other one is Ed Markey. Ed Markey is not running for President.
Markey has been a US Senator for a short time, but then
he was a US Representative for multiple terms before being elected US Senator.
Markey, love him or hate him, is the real deal, Senator-wise.
He knows how to write laws -- some of his have become law.
He knows about his constituents and he knows about his peers,
and how to interact with each.

No, I'm not saying I want Ed Markey to be anything other than
US Senator for Massachusetts.

What I'm saying is, what if Hillary is right when she says of Sanders,
"Nobody likes him," meaning Sanders's peers in Congress.

Now, if Elizabeth Warren doesn't like Sanders, it's one thing.
One, she's a rival in the running for US President.
Two, she's a woman, and it seems to be one those nasty commonplaces
that Sanders can disrespect women and get away with it.

However:
if Ed Markey dislikes Bernie Sanders?
If Ed Markey's colleagues dislike Bernie Sanders that much?

It makes me feel sorry for Mr. Sanders, if that's the case,
and this is no time to be feeling sorry for him.

Subject: RE: BS: 'this is abnormal' (Hillary Clinton)
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Feb 20 - 05:24 PM

Joe, God listened to Trump at the prayer breakfast yesterday.
Perhaps the virus will now mutate to only take deplorables.