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BS: Original intent of healing circle

katlaughing 03 Jan 00 - 11:13 PM
MamaTamba 04 Jan 00 - 02:54 PM
MamaTamba 04 Jan 00 - 02:57 PM
MamaTamba 04 Jan 00 - 02:59 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Jan 00 - 03:51 PM
MamaTamba 04 Jan 00 - 04:16 PM
Jon Freeman 04 Jan 00 - 06:33 PM
Lonesome EJ 04 Jan 00 - 06:42 PM
_gargoyle 04 Jan 00 - 08:48 PM
_gargoyle 04 Jan 00 - 08:53 PM
Micca 04 Jan 00 - 09:01 PM
Bill D 04 Jan 00 - 09:08 PM
bbelle 04 Jan 00 - 11:44 PM
DonMeixner 05 Jan 00 - 12:02 AM
catspaw49 05 Jan 00 - 12:16 AM
katlaughing 05 Jan 00 - 12:19 AM
Jon Freeman 05 Jan 00 - 12:37 AM
Lonesome EJ 05 Jan 00 - 02:03 AM
Jon Freeman 05 Jan 00 - 02:18 AM
Danlbear 05 Jan 00 - 02:21 AM
Jon Freeman 05 Jan 00 - 02:36 AM
alison 05 Jan 00 - 09:47 AM
Peter T. 05 Jan 00 - 11:27 AM
katlaughing 05 Jan 00 - 12:40 PM
Peter T. 05 Jan 00 - 01:00 PM
katlaughing 05 Jan 00 - 01:05 PM
MamaTamba 05 Jan 00 - 02:25 PM
Paul G. 05 Jan 00 - 02:32 PM
Joe Offer 05 Jan 00 - 02:35 PM
clare s 05 Jan 00 - 03:19 PM
Áine 05 Jan 00 - 03:44 PM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 05 Jan 00 - 04:06 PM
Jon Freeman 05 Jan 00 - 04:33 PM
Lonesome EJ 05 Jan 00 - 04:55 PM
clare s 05 Jan 00 - 05:47 PM
Jon Freeman 05 Jan 00 - 05:59 PM
Penny S. 05 Jan 00 - 06:11 PM
05 Jan 00 - 06:18 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 05 Jan 00 - 06:23 PM
Jon Freeman 05 Jan 00 - 06:44 PM
Joe Offer 05 Jan 00 - 06:52 PM
catspaw49 05 Jan 00 - 06:54 PM
Mbo 05 Jan 00 - 06:59 PM
Jon Freeman 05 Jan 00 - 07:11 PM
Banjer 05 Jan 00 - 07:26 PM
catspaw49 05 Jan 00 - 07:28 PM
Liz the Squeak 05 Jan 00 - 07:30 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 05 Jan 00 - 07:33 PM
Rick Fielding 05 Jan 00 - 07:39 PM
Peter T. 05 Jan 00 - 08:50 PM
Dave Swan 05 Jan 00 - 08:57 PM
Bert 05 Jan 00 - 09:01 PM
catspaw49 05 Jan 00 - 09:23 PM
Little Neophyte 05 Jan 00 - 09:30 PM
catspaw49 05 Jan 00 - 09:50 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 05 Jan 00 - 10:02 PM
Little Neophyte 05 Jan 00 - 10:07 PM
catspaw49 05 Jan 00 - 10:10 PM
Micca 05 Jan 00 - 11:05 PM
catspaw49 05 Jan 00 - 11:14 PM
Micca 05 Jan 00 - 11:31 PM
Lonesome EJ 05 Jan 00 - 11:53 PM
catspaw49 06 Jan 00 - 12:03 AM
lloyd61 06 Jan 00 - 12:38 AM
Escamillo 06 Jan 00 - 01:25 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 06 Jan 00 - 03:37 AM
Jake Lindstrom 06 Jan 00 - 04:45 AM
Little Neophyte 06 Jan 00 - 07:23 AM
katlaughing 06 Jan 00 - 08:57 AM
kendall 06 Jan 00 - 09:31 AM
Little Neophyte 06 Jan 00 - 10:44 AM
Paul G. 06 Jan 00 - 01:50 PM
clare s 06 Jan 00 - 03:08 PM
06 Jan 00 - 04:27 PM
clare s 06 Jan 00 - 04:34 PM
Bert 06 Jan 00 - 04:47 PM
katlaughing 06 Jan 00 - 04:49 PM
lamarca 06 Jan 00 - 04:58 PM
katlaughing 06 Jan 00 - 05:14 PM
clare s 06 Jan 00 - 05:53 PM
Paul G. 06 Jan 00 - 06:43 PM
clare s 06 Jan 00 - 07:17 PM
catspaw49 06 Jan 00 - 07:26 PM
Little Neophyte 06 Jan 00 - 07:29 PM
Jon Freeman 06 Jan 00 - 07:33 PM
Banjer 06 Jan 00 - 07:34 PM
kat/katlaughing 06 Jan 00 - 07:34 PM
_gargoyle 06 Jan 00 - 08:53 PM
lloyd61 06 Jan 00 - 09:17 PM
sophocleese 06 Jan 00 - 10:22 PM
clare s 06 Jan 00 - 11:08 PM
Lenny 06 Jan 00 - 11:22 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 07 Jan 00 - 12:26 AM
Jiminy Crickett & Miss Manners 07 Jan 00 - 12:41 AM
Mary G 07 Jan 00 - 02:25 AM
Banjer 07 Jan 00 - 05:22 AM
llama 07 Jan 00 - 08:40 AM
Wolfgang 07 Jan 00 - 08:43 AM
jeffp 07 Jan 00 - 10:03 AM
Rick Fielding 07 Jan 00 - 12:38 PM
Peter T. 07 Jan 00 - 01:49 PM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 07 Jan 00 - 02:35 PM
catspaw49 07 Jan 00 - 02:38 PM
Áine 07 Jan 00 - 03:00 PM
catspaw49 07 Jan 00 - 03:14 PM
Áine 07 Jan 00 - 03:24 PM
MMario 07 Jan 00 - 03:53 PM
katlaughing 07 Jan 00 - 04:18 PM
Banjer 07 Jan 00 - 07:24 PM
catspaw49 07 Jan 00 - 07:37 PM
katlaughing 07 Jan 00 - 07:47 PM
Banjer 07 Jan 00 - 08:57 PM
bbc 07 Jan 00 - 10:15 PM
_gargoyle 08 Jan 00 - 12:09 AM
Kristi H 08 Jan 00 - 01:29 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 08 Jan 00 - 02:01 AM
Banjer 08 Jan 00 - 03:56 AM
Banjer 08 Jan 00 - 04:08 AM
clare s 08 Jan 00 - 04:30 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 08 Jan 00 - 04:45 PM
clare s 08 Jan 00 - 04:55 PM
wildlone 08 Jan 00 - 05:02 PM
clare s 08 Jan 00 - 05:08 PM
clare s 08 Jan 00 - 05:10 PM
sophocleese 08 Jan 00 - 05:13 PM
Peter T. 08 Jan 00 - 05:18 PM
clare s 08 Jan 00 - 05:26 PM
wildlone 08 Jan 00 - 06:02 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 08 Jan 00 - 06:08 PM
Banjer 08 Jan 00 - 07:50 PM
Banjer 08 Jan 00 - 08:02 PM
Little Neophyte 08 Jan 00 - 08:07 PM
clare s 08 Jan 00 - 08:26 PM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 08 Jan 00 - 08:49 PM
clare s 08 Jan 00 - 08:57 PM
Jon Freeman 09 Jan 00 - 12:00 AM
kendall 09 Jan 00 - 09:01 AM
Banjer 09 Jan 00 - 09:10 AM
Frankie 09 Jan 00 - 09:45 AM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 09 Jan 00 - 02:04 PM
flattop 09 Jan 00 - 04:17 PM
clare s 09 Jan 00 - 05:31 PM
RichM 10 Jan 00 - 12:33 AM
Jon Freeman 10 Jan 00 - 12:56 AM

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Subject: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jan 00 - 11:13 PM

Dear Mudcatters,

Please use personal messages for healing requests to anyone listed as a willing participant in the original thread.

Please read the following, as it was never my intention to be in anyone's face with spirituality. This is from my original posting about a healing circle.

I know we all rally round when one of us is in need, but I thought the other day, how nice it might be for some who do not want to go public or for whatever reason, if there were any or all of us who would like to be contact people for a healing circle?

what I am trying to say is: how about a list of phoaks who wouldn't mind being contacted personally and/or privately for healing energy or whatever is needed, who can in turn notify others on the list who have some time to devote to specific requests?

Thank you for reading this and thank you for NOT turning this into a thread of controversy.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: MamaTamba
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 02:54 PM

Dear Kat,

Being part of a healing enery flow sounds terrific. I do have a couple of questions.

I'm a real newbie to the net and even to pc's...so please explain the part about using personal messages.

I also have a real consideration about how/who/etc is going to "vet" or forward the requests. As you know, it's pretty easy for bogus or frivolous claims of an energy need to be made. Don't mean to be petty...but that can be really draining instead of replenishing.

I'll check in later to catch any replies.

Warm fuzzies to you and yours, Joan


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: MamaTamba
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 02:57 PM

P.S.

Kat, sorry you've had trouble with what started out as the most lovely of intentions!!!

luv, me again


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: MamaTamba
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 02:59 PM

P.P.S.

Now if I could only spell


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 03:51 PM

"Don't you let nobody
Turn you round-turn you round-turn you round
Don't you let nobody turn you round
Got to keep on walkin
Keep on talkin
Marchin to the Freedom Band

Don't you let the Policeman
Turm you round..."

-Steve Miller


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: MamaTamba
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 04:16 PM

to Lonesome EJ...huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 06:33 PM

LEJ, that has reminded me of this song:

It's a long long journey from you own home
Where your own truth is waiting to be found
And though others may tire you
And try to buy you
Dont you let nobody turn you round

Turn you round, Turn you round
Don't you let nobody turn you round

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 06:42 PM

Mamba,...Just a little tune about doing what you think is right, no matter what other people say. Thought I'd make sure there was some music in this thread.

LEJ


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: _gargoyle
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 08:48 PM

Physician ------------------------

...........................................Heal Thyself!!!

And PLEASE find another forum.........there are Doubtless Others that need thy compassion........and will probably benefit from it....our dear Mr. Catspaw was a unique experience...(I participated and contributed time/money) don't try for a replay....at least not soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: _gargoyle
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 08:53 PM

Waiting for the "loyal twelve" to step in line:

So far, not even a majority of the "regulars" have backed you on this one.....No doubt, there will be a headcount soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Micca
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:01 PM

Mama Tamba and others, as one of the "originals" in this concept, in that with Kat I sorta helped set it on its way, may I say a few words.
1 the intention as, I understood it, both in postings and other was that there were people occasionally on the threads who mentioned, in passing, distress or illness or personal crises in their lives, and wouldn't it be sheer human kindness for anyone who could contribute healing thoughts or energy, prayers for those that pray, healing energy from those that do not, focussed on those in need.
2 All contributors to the stream needed to do was post there intention, this commitment was enough, If the people then went on to pray, meditate, conduct ritual for healing, or just sit in a quiet place and think of the purpose and the recipient. Then the energy would go to them.
3 I do not understand how someone can be offended by this kind of idea, yet it is clear that some are, so do not take part in it. If you do not like threads dealing with this kind of thing, post a music thread, join another discussion, but a community that is not concerned for its members, and I mean the totality of each individual, not just the Folk Music liking bit, but the whole human being, is a sad, sad bunch. Clearly this place is most definitely in the caring helpful category like that in spite of the desire of some to turn the clock back to the mythical "good old days"
4. I can vouch for its efficiency, as most will know I was rushed in to hospital in the middle of the night in great pain with gall stones, a friend posted to a thread about Healing being needed. And my So brought in the printout to the hospital, even the nurses commented on how improved I was in a couple of hours from reading them. .
5. Mama Tamba, to deal more specifically with your concern about misappropriation of energy, as I understand it, it is impossible to steal energy that is not addressed to you like e-mail it is encoded. If you need a more complete answer go to the top of the page Just under the Mudcat Café title, click on the personal pages, scroll down until you come to the heading marked messages, where it says enter code name of the member you want to send a message type my name and an e-mail form will appear type in hit send and next time I log on to the 'Cat I will get it. .

6 I know there are people here who think that This Forum is corrupted by BS threads and reduced by their presence, (see 3 above for my stance) and one took over 2,000 words (in one of the BS threads) to tell us that they strongly disapprove of what these "newcomers" have done to their "beloved site" Well I think you're wrong and not just wrong but totally wrong, it is not like a classroom where you can not hear the Teacher because of the noise, if anything it's an exam room where in dead silence each person writes there thoughts and you can look (or not ) at each script. .
I prefer to see it more like York here in the UK it has a maze of medieval streets called the Shambles and as you walk along each shop is clearly labelled so that I do not accidentally stray into Mothercare or Knitware supplies, unless buying presents, But there are pubs full of conversation and music, some (like Heavy Metal ) I avoid. But I know before I go in, or very shortly after, if it's for me, and if not I leave. I do not expect them to change because I find what they sell or enjoy unacceptable to me. I go on to find what I do enjoy. Here on the 'Cat I do not visit the Irish language song threads as after 45 years my command of Gaelic is non-existent. And certain other threads I avoid for blood pressure reasons. But what I will not stand for is some bleating little wanker telling me what I will and will not like or do, I lived under Catholic thought police in Ireland as a child and I despise censorship either concealed or implicit. .
Oh and for the record I came looking for song lyrics and stayed because of the people, and important tho' the DT is, the really important resource here and in Folk Music in general is the people, and especially Max for allowing this to be such a free running open discussion, Thanks for hearing me. Micca


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:08 PM

-gargoyle, leave it alone! She/they are tring to adjust!!!...you don't even know how to tell when you are winning!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 11:44 PM

Thank you, Micca, for opening up the can of worms regarding the bs on the mudcat and what you think of it, in an effort to evoke yet another round of argumentative threads. When Kat first posted the thread on the healing circle, I knew exactly what she was saying and she has, again, attempted to explain her motives. She asked that this not turn into a thread of controversy and you have just that. I, too, am guilty for writing this and hope it will stop here. Sorry, Kat, for furthering this thread ... moonchild


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: DonMeixner
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 12:02 AM

In a time long ago there was a man,

To the old lies he would not be bound,

So they hung him to a tree,

For telling you and me,

Don't you let nobody turn you 'round.

Jeepers Lonesome, Tom Paxton can turn a phrase. I sang that song for years and then it slowly slipped away. Funny how and why these songs come back to the mind ain't it.

Kat, when the smoke clears and its the end of the day. Remember that you are right and if we are all thats left, I'm in your corner on this one.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 12:16 AM

Sorry Moon, but since this one's back at the top....Coming back, I wanted to say a lot, but the ashes are what's left and I'll not rekindle the flame. Kat knows how I feel, we talked by phone tonight. Leej, your e-mail came back that I sent to you, but you done good bro.....and thanks Don, you're not alone as you know. Kat will be back. Anything beyond this becomes a tirade.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 12:19 AM

Thanks, Don. I wasn't going to post for a few days, but oh well, what the hell, huh?

Moonchild, thank you for your concern, but I feel Micca has every right to say what he wants to in this or any other thread, as does anyone else, esp. since he is a very gifted healer and had very much a hand in starting the original thread. Besides, what he posted is his honest feelings and constructive, whereas one like garg's serves no purpose except to stir the pot.

Thank you,

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 12:37 AM

Don and or LEJ, are the verses you quoted from the same song? Don's verse is one I know from the song I quoted but I can't not remember LEJ's words or see them fitting the tune I know.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:03 AM

Jon. I didn't know it was a Paxton tune. Heard it on a Steve Miller Band album and I liked the Hippie Militance of it at the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:18 AM

LEJ, I had no idea who wrote it. I have only heard one person singing it, Father Liam - a Roman Catholic Priest!

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Danlbear
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:21 AM

Goodnight everyone. I hope everyone can find it in his or her heart to pray, meditate, or at least think about the members of this group who are in need of support and not argue about it. That's all I have to say on the issue. It doesn't matter who you're God is or if you even have one. The human spirit is capable of healing, and there is strength in numbers.

dan


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:36 AM

Danbear, I could have agreed with you up to where you said "That's all I have to say on this issue". I can happily be friends with people with different beliefs to mine and agree to disagree on certain matters but you are already starting to preach and for the record:

It does matter to me who my God is, it does matter to me that I have one, I do not blieve that the human spirit has healing powers and I do not belive that there is strength in numbers.

Can't we leave each other to our own beliefs and stop making statements about what does and doesn't matter and what does and doesn't heal..

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: alison
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 09:47 AM

I think it is a good idea to take this into the personal messages... recently there have been threads where people with problems have been ridiculed........ or it hasn't been taken seriously becasue people assume its a hoax..... this can't be very "healing" for the person concerned.....

Yes we are a community, but we don't need to know absolutely everything about everybody else... some people like / need their privacy.

If it was taken into private messages... those concerned or willing to help could be reached .....

here's another suggestion.. why not take it into ICQ or one of the other "chat" type forums... so you can actually talk things through, or arrange times to meet and "channel energies" or whatever.......

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:27 AM

where do I sign up for the loyal twelve, if that means healing and compassion wherever it rears its beautiful head, and whether you believe in its efficacy or not? Over here, please count my head sir, please!! Where is that line to toe? I'm ready and willing, you bet. Happy to fulfill someone's paranoia on this one, pressed down and overflowing!!!!!
yours, Peter T. P.S. Go soak your head (in the most healing compassionate way, of course).


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 12:40 PM

Peter! LOL! Thank you!

One of the things I've always liked about Mudcats is their tolerance for diversity. Because of the nature of folkmusic, a lot of Christianity is represented, can't be helped, that is part of a lot of its history. Coming here, it was nice to see tolerance for those of us who are not Christian; now I am wondering where its got to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 01:00 PM

No way I am following you down that road, kat. You will turn into your enemy.
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 01:05 PM

Not my intention at all, Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: MamaTamba
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:25 PM

My, My! Leave you folks alone for a couple of hours and you get right back into it! Wow! There is a great big old undercurrent of unresolved (unresolvable?) issues with the regulars at this (GREAT) site.

1. TO LEJ...re my 1/4/00 "huh?"...Thanks for the explain - AND what I read as encouragement for Kat.

2. TO MICCA...re my 1/4/00 concerns about "vetting" etal - I had the (mistaken?) impression that direct or personal contact for support was going to be via phone or e-mail to MY pc. I'm not real comfortable with that.

I WILL get to learning more about navigating this site (and other stuff) when I finally settle down to the same pc and isp for more than 2 weeks at a time.

Thanks for your offer of technohelp. I'll probably visit you WHEN I settle down.

3. TO ALISON...Lots of well-meaning and helpful people like moi) don't know enough to use ICQ or modes other than this.

4. I'm totally mystified over the exchange between Kat and Peter T. over what I perceive to be issues of religious tolerance.

5. I don't agree with JOHN F's BELIEFS...but I do agree with JOHN F (the person) and his right to have and express those beliefs.

6. WHO or WHAT THE HELL IS "GARGOYLE"??...AND ALL THIS STUFF ABOUT B.S., ETC???

MUSIC WITHOUT PEOPLE IS ONE HAND CLAPPING !!!!

More luv and warm fuzzies to Kat and my fellow White Hats (you know who you are)

MamaT.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Paul G.
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:32 PM

Hello...don't know if I'm among the twelve...but I am responsible for one of the recent "healing threads". Kat, I'm with you on this one. The process need not be public, it just needs to be. Message me when you need me. That goes for everyone.

Paul G.


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Subject: Original intent of healing circle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:35 PM

You, know, I think we have a lot of common ground, and it's just a matter of a few subtle differences.
I'm not Jewish, but for me the most moving moment of 1999 was going to the Western Wall ("Wailing Wall") in Jerusalem. This is the holiest place in Judaism, and you'll always find people there at the wall, deeply in one sort of prayer or another. Shula, who was once a beloved member of the group here, needs a heart transplant, and she's been in poor health for years. She loves to sing, but most times she's too congested to sing. I felt compelled to write a prayer for Shula and tuck it into a crack in the wall, along with thousands and thousands of other prayers that were there.
Although Jerusalem is a hotbed of political and religious controversy, there was a certain peace and healing power at that wall that I couldn't help but feel. I think that when it's at its best, the Healing Circle calls upon that same healing power. Reminds me of the Bob Zentz song, When All Thy Names Are One. We're all one - we just don't realize it a lot of the time.
The Healing Circle is a good thing. So is most of what goes on here at the Mudcat. It's just a matter of tone and balance. It seems to me that the nonmusical threads have been so popular that they have overwhelmed the folk music discussions, and that has detracted from the reputation of the 'Cat as a place for fascinating exchanges of information about folk music. The folk music discussions are still here, but they seem to have lost a lot of their vitality and we seem not to be attracting new people to join the folk music side of the discussion.
I think that Kat has the start of a good idea here, and I'm wondering if we can work to develop it. I know of several people who were helped by the warmth and healing power of our expressions of love for them, so this is an important thing that must be encouraged. However, I wonder if a public forum is the best place to express such personal feelings. When we have multiple threads of dozens of expressions of sympathy or healing, the threads develop a certain sameness to them that dulls the warmth of the intentions being expressed. I think that it might be a better idea to ask somebody to moderate a Healing Circle, with only the original request being posted in the Forum, with reponses sent by e-mail or by personal messages. It would be easy for the moderator to set up a separate e-mailbox for the Circle, or maybe a mailing list. Those who have sent messages would then receive updates on the person's condition, or whatever.
There have been several times whan I have been tempted posting a message to a Healing Circle thread, but I did not feel comfortable expressing my sympathies publicly because what I had to say was to similar to everything else that was said. If we can channel these expressions into something that isn't quite such a public forum, I think we may find that the end result is far more powerful that what some people have seen here in the forum threads. Also, there have been several people among us who have suffered one thing or another, people who could benefit greatly from our sympathy and love. However, people often don't want to have their problems or medical conditions discussed in a public forum, in a thread with a hundred messages about them - how can we best express our love for these people who need it?
Those are just my ideas, not a solid plan. I think it's something we can work with, an idea that could develop into something wonderful. I think Kat's on the right track with this one.
What else can we do to break down those barriers that divide us, to honor the needs of all who are here? I know the easy answer is to say that we should just tolerate everything everybody does, but I think that's a cop-out. A good number of people feel that the folk music aspect of our forum has lost its spark because of all the other stuff that's going on - I think those people have a right to have those concerns honored.
Can we come together as friends, and honor the needs of all?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 03:19 PM

If you really think that your 'thoughts' can heal you are sadly wrong. No decently conducted experiment has shown any difference over a control group.

Of course, you are entitled to your beliefs however absurd, but please go somewhere else and leave us folkies to discuss music.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Áine
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 03:44 PM

Dearest Kat,

I just want to say that I support your Healing Circle and the idea of compassion behind it. Since it was originally your concept, I will back you in whatever way you want to handle it, whether that means going 'off forum' or keeping here.

However, I sincerely hope that this wonderful place does not becomes a haven for those 'of a like mind' or for people who find comfort in the thought of 'seperate but equal.' So far, the Mudcat has been an open and public place for communication -- warts and all -- and not a restricted, private club. I can only hope that it remains open for all.

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:06 PM

I have avoided posting to this thread, but would now like to express my views. My religion is irrelevant to this issue. My sympathy and support I give as a fellow human being. (dedicated to saving lives and preventing human suffering) without knowing whom I am supporting. I merely know some kindred soul has requested a caring thought for someone else. That I expressed my simple wishes for health and concern for a fellow human being on this site surely cannot offend anyone? If you do not believe it works, why do you wish people Good Luck, Happy New Year, or God bless etc they will not work either will they? There is one person (a musician to establish the link to this site) who may feel that although facing a terrible challenge to defeat a disease, may feel a little better for knowing that he is not alone and forgotten in this world. If I can give a small sense of comradeship to someone, then I believe in giving that small gesture. let those who wish to continue discussing music continue to do so. I doubt if my posting on another thread will interupt you; or debase and demean the purpose of the Mudcat. If it does then I shall leave this site right now and never darken your door again. I have a daughter suffering from an incurable disease, this site helps me feel better without requesting your help. The thoughts and caring messages my wife and I get from people do help us get by. I have seen much more death and needless destruction than many people on this site. Kindness and courtesy is still alive in this world, I dread the thought that it may perish; and we end up without children who believe in fairies and Pooh bear and The Pony Man and other such useless idea's. I have the honour to be Ladies and Gentlemen, Yours, Aye. Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:33 PM

Kat,

I feel quite sure that the intentions of the Mudcat Healing circle genuine and asking people to pray (or whatever a persons belief system says they should do) is something that I am in agreement with but I do feel that the Mudcat Healing circle is going beyond that level.

You mentioned religions tolerance. I think that most of us realise that Mudcat is made up is made of people from different cultures and with many different religious beliefs. Personally, I am happy to discuss my beliefs with anybody of any faith and listen to their view points but try to do this in the terms of "The Christian take on this is…" rather than to make statements of fact on a subject that ultimately comes down to personal beliefs.

There have been numerous statements on how a person is healed and how one should go about focusing energy etc. All statements in terms of direction have from Non Christians and again, I have seen it happen that when a Christian finally does question the beliefs of non Christians, it suddenly becomes a matter of religious intolerance in the minds of the non Christians. This is not the case, you are preaching your beliefs in the forum and then getting upset when challenged. I don't preach how Jesus Christ is the son of God or the power of the Holy Spirit in this forum because I don't believe that it is the right place for it but I feel pretty sure that if I did, the non Christians would leap on my back and moan about religious content rather more quickly than I have done.

Finally, when it comes to actually grouping together to send out psychic energy from the forum, you are reaching the point of not only preaching but using to forum to practice religions that are totally alien to me.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:55 PM

When asked to participate in a Healing Thread, I pray to Jesus Christ for the well-being of that person in need. Kat may invoke the Spirits of Nature, Seed may focus his own personal healing energy, Spaw may just give his best wishes.As a Christian, I believe that prayer works. I don't know if what they are doing is helping or not, but I believe that they are doing the right thing in the best way they know how to do it. I am proud to be in their company. As Christ said, "My Father's House has many rooms."

Now, as for the method by which this good thing is expressed, I think we're all open to creative suggestions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:47 PM

I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense! None of you possess 'healing energy' none of you can affect the health of a distant person through your thoughts or your love or your prayers

Sad possibly, but true

You may as well believe in Santa Claus

Next time you are ill, try a doctor... not perfect but far more effective than your positive vibes

clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:59 PM

Clare s, this illustrates the problems. In reality, you are expressing your own beliefs on this subject which are no more or less proveable than anyone elses. I have my belifs, Kat has hers, you have yours... I think that most of us can agree that we are concerned about others and are willing to try to help according to our own beliefs but the problem comes in when people start stating their beliefs as if they are hard facts.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Penny S.
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:11 PM

clare s. - I don't think it is possible for there to be a true controlled test of whatever people believe they are doing in healing - you could never have a controlled group where you could be sure no-one was prayed for - and would any God be worth worship who would go along with such an experiment. Yet there are people who believe that they have received help by such methods. If you are right, what harm do such activities do? If you are wrong, then harm could be done by refraining from the attempt to use them.

I think that there can never be proof either way.

I know that prayer does not always seem to do anything useful. It can seem pretty appalling when sincere prayers for someone's healing are apparently ignored, while someone else's request for what can seem trivial (a parking space?) are regularly "answered". But that doesn't disprove anything.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From:
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:18 PM

Here's what one doctor has to say:

An Interview on Attitudinal Healing with Bernie S. Siegel, M.D.

Hope & A Prayer is an indispensable survival guide for patients and health care providers. Its therapeutic message of hope is timely, provocative and entertaining. Dr. Bernie Siegel discusses how hope and a positive attitude can dramatically enhance the quality of the patient's life, and improve the outcome of illness. His brilliant insights and charismatic presentation give the viewer a sense of empowerment and provide practical tools for dealing effectively with serious illness.

In this thought-provoking and inspiring interview, cancer specialist and surgeon Dr. Bernie Siegel motivates us all to utilize our own innate power to create self healing. He speaks sensibly to those facing illness, either directly or through someone they care about, and to doctors, nutses, and others in the medical community.

Bernie Siegel, M.D., practices surgery in New Haven and teaches at Yale University. A pioneer in the field of attitudinal healing, he is a former President of the American Holistic Medical Association. He is the author of the best-selling Love, Medicine & Miracles, published in 1986 by Harper and Row.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:23 PM

It seems to me as a Christian/Hindu/Buddhist/Shinto/Baha'i/etc. that while most posters recognize the right of everyone to practice his/her own religion, a number of the "Christian" posters believe that persons of other persuasions should, out of respect for the true religion, do it elsewhere...

--seed


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:44 PM

Seed, I don't know about other Christian posters, or what you mean by the true relgion (unless that is an ackowledgement from yourself) but personally speaking, I would prefer it if people did limit their parctice of relgion to those of the same of compatible beliefs.

I might be misreading it but you asmost seem to be implying that there is a suggestion that it would be OK for Christians but nobody else to practice thier religion here. I have only expressed my own feelings on a subject and personally, I pracitce my own religion (except for day to day behaivior) in the privacy of my own home or occasionally in the company of other Christians in a church... I just wish people of other persuasions could be as respectful.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Original intent of healing circle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:52 PM

Not quite, BSeed - It's a great thing for all of us to keep and share our religious traditions and perspectives, while respecting and learning from the perspectives of others. However, what we do here that borders on a religious practice, should be done in a way that it includes us all, and does not make anyone feel left out. If expressions of love and good wishes and sympathy are expressed here in a public forum, they can and should be expressed in a nonsectarian way that includes us all.
Evangelical Christians consider it an essential part of their faith to evangelize, to convert people. As a non-evangelical Christian, that makes me uncomfortable when I'm subjected to that sort of evangelization. I think the Christians have done a pretty good job here of not evangelizing, and not doing anything that would cause discomfort to those who believe otherwise. I'd hate to see this place become a sterile environment where people are ostracized for expressing their religious ideas or talking about their religious traditions. Again, note the difference between religious practices, and expression of religious ideas.
I'm a Catholic/Christian (albeit of the liberal, dissenting variety), and I believe we all are blessed in many ways. I believe those blessings come from God and from people who love us, and others believe those blessings come from other sources. When I wish those blessings on my agnostic/sometime atheist friend Fielding, I do it in a way that is acceptable and inclusive to him. Otherwise, he might respond to my well-intentioned but mistaken good wishes with some rather colorful "blessings" of his own.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:54 PM

flip-flop......straddlee.....lean..........TILT!!!

sheesh..........Its terrible, its great, its not Ok unless, but if we do, maybe we could but not, unless we do this, no that.............

Sorry I was off having a good time with my wife the first two days of the week..........

If I decide to ask for support or good wishes for a friend in any kind of need, I WILL. You may respond or not, totally up to you.....no religion, no preaching, no good or bad, no 96 page rulebook. If you want to join me or someone else in wishing the best, get well, happy birthday, or whatever...just do it. You want to post one of those, DO IT. We're all free to respond or not. And if this somehow bothers you, no problem, DON'T DO IT and DON'T open the thread.

Somebody today posted an anonymous "Happy Birthday" to mouldy and Caitrin.........maybe it was a mistake, but if it was truly meant to be anonymous, you gotta' get a laugh out of that much paranoia!

Yeah, I know, I'm an anarchist.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:59 PM

Hey, Seed told me I was one of the twelve!

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 07:11 PM

Spaw, I think we have 2 separate issues. One is the place of BS and the second is of a religious nature. The type of post you are mentioning is purely of the BS nature (unfortunate prefix I know) and would gladly send a get well message or whatever (and in my case for what it is worth, would say a quite prayer on my own) and that doesn't bother me. It is the degree of the religious content that is making me feel uncomfortable.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 07:26 PM

Among the "regular" voices in this forum I find the usual understanding and tolerance of each others' beliefs and thoughts. This is the way this village has operated since I have been here, a little over a year now. Comes one Clare S., who according to forum search has only posted twice, both times in this thread, telling those of us who have been here for some time to "please go somewhere else and leave us folkies to discuss music". If I feel that what I am doing is right, not hurting anyone else and in fact maybe helping someone with words of encouragement or other support, leaving is the last thing I'll do. Either Clare S. is new member, in which case welcome, or someone who would not like their identity know and has logged on with a pseudonymn. In either case I shall NOT allow MY thoughts or beliefs to be swayed by someone not willing to reveal their true identity or so new that they have no idea what is going on! Ray Eanes, BANJER

ILLIGITEMI NON CARBORUNDUM!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 07:28 PM

I understand your point Jon. I wasn't as tuned to that end of it as others were and perhaps I should have been. I try to avoid stepping on "religious" toes so to speak.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 07:30 PM

Lonesome, I think you have said all that needs to be said, way back there. It doesn't matter what image you see when you pray to your God, the prayer or thought is the action.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 07:33 PM

Jon, I think by describing myself as I did, I made it clear that I believe everyone should have the same rights to religious expression, whatever their beliefs. I have sensed in this thread that there are some who feel--as many in the religious right do--that religious freedom is something reserved for Christians.

--seed


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 07:39 PM

Sheesh folks (and especially you, anonymous) don't go putting all your faith (and cash) in the opinions of doctors! They are as tied to pharmaceutical companies as some music teachers are to Mel Bay books. As Joe pointed out I know diddly about religious faiths of any kind, but that sure didn't stop me from thinking about Catspaw for two solid weeks. The mind is an amazing thing and I have no doubt it can affect positive (or negative) changes. Because I can't conceive of the concept of divine intervention, doesn't mean I don't think it's possible. I am firmly in the camp of "Whatever Get's you through the Night"! For me, since the age of 15, it's been music, music, music. Still works great.

Rick


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 08:50 PM

Well, I am a Buddhist, and I personally have been struck by how restrained everyone has been here about their religious persuasions -- unlike virtually all other Internet groups I know of. The reason, I believe, is that as people interested in the community of music, especially folk music, we have borrowed (and recreated) the rules, manners, humour, tolerance and bullshit of people sitting around playing music and having a good time. It is a porch in a strange village. THIS IS A COMMUNITY OF CRAZY PEOPLE, OTHERWISE WHY ARE WE DEVOTED TO FOLK MUSIC IN A WORLD OF STOCK OPTIONS????????. WE ARE ALL TOTALLY, SCREAMING NUTS. WE ARE SITTING AROUND TYPING MESSAGES TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF CARRICKFERGUS!!!!!!!!!! We got chanters, we got St. John's Wort devotees, we got St. John of the Cross devotees, we got nutso Buddhists like me, we got wiccans, we even have banjo players. We got people in the back room that you don't want to tell the neighbours about. If people want to heal people with prayer, that is fine. If people want to pray for me, and they are Hindu Jews, please pray for me, because I sure as hell need it -- it may not work, but what have I got to lose? It is not as if praying for people or asking for them to be healed actively sends out evil ions that will destroy our way of life (which needs to be destroyed, but that is another discussion). It's a porch, with moonshine liquor or Guinness close by -- so we are nuts, so what???? Who's got a tune....?
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Dave Swan
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 08:57 PM

We have never rung in on one of these discussions....until now. Peter, you have said it ALL.

Thank you.

Dave & Pam


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 09:01 PM

That Peter T sure does have a way with words. And good thoughts to go with 'em.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 09:23 PM

Aw to hell with you Peter!!! Yeah, sure, you turn a nice phrase, but what of the fockin' HERON!!! I ask you, how do you sleep at night knowing he's out there and travelling the lonesome road of life in a Waylon outfit....Scorned by his own kind....Rusty strings on his little Telecaster!!! Off with you man...and may your soul be ever burdened by the injustices you have wrought.

(well stroked Peter)

Spaw - One of the ones not mentioned to the neighbors


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 09:30 PM

Spaw what does 'well stroked' mean. Seriously, I don't understand the saying? Is it the stroke of a pen?

Peter, your posting is so wise.
Maybe I should become Banjo Buddha Bonnie. I'll change my tuning and come up with a few monk chants.
I think I would look good in orange.

BB


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 09:50 PM

OH GAWD NO BONNIE....NOT THE ORANGE ROBES....YOU'LL BURST INTO FLAME!!!!! (yeah, I know, I'm goin' straight to all the hells)

"Well Stroked" is a kind of double meaning compliment as in the stroke of a pen AND the "stroke" of the .....uh,..."male member." And BTW....the 3-D reference in the tuning threads refers to all the tunings which have three "D's" in them and the glasses as in the movies....you know, the little paper jobbies with one red and one green lens so the movie looks 3 dimensional??? So when someone starts up about a tuning with three "D's" in it, I always make a dumbass wisecrack about "Its Ok, but I can't stand the glasses."

Sorry.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 10:02 PM

Yes, Peter, what you've said is very true about this place--generally--but in this particular thread and the one it was intended to explain, that tolerance was sorely lacking in many of the posts...

And thanks, Spaw, for lightening things up a bit. And Embo, everyone is a member of the gang of 12--except it's been disbanded, which was hard to do since it never really existed. And if you can understand that--he said, pulling the cigar out from under the painted-on moustache--you're a better man than I.

--seed (the gang of one, now accepting membership applications)


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 10:07 PM

Charles can I join your gang?


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 10:10 PM

TWO

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Micca
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:05 PM

Spaw, apart from the synonym for a crafty sherman, or dating Mrs Palm and her 5 daughters, I think "well stroked" is from rowing where the stroke oar gives the timing to the others in the boat. Can't you just see Bonnie, in orange, chanting and playing a Zen banjo(No strings?) or is it a Shamisen?


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:14 PM

Also true cousin.....And don't you just love listening to the calls of the coxswain???

And no......We'll have to go through another name change with her----Buddha Bonnie Zen Banjo or something.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Micca
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:31 PM

Hey 'Spaw I suppose we must be sorta couzins, sheeeeeit,( bugger its starting to work)That name, Buddha Bonnie Zen Banjo Little Neo III of Toronto is beginning to sound like the names they give pedigree animals at Crufts etc. and I think she's much too nice for that( in my best Uriah Heep style) mind you what an acronym, it probably means something in Polish or Welsh NOI( the only two languages I know that dispense with vowels)**BG**


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:53 PM

Fooled me,Spawser. I thought it was a term used by Crosby after Hope(or was it Stills?) popped the pill out of a sunken bunker on the 12th at Augusta, during the filming of The Road to South Philly. "Well stroked, Junior. Now, Doctor, if you'll kindly allow me to trade this single malt for a pitching wedge, I'll be on my merry way."


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 12:03 AM

And again true....and now it also strikes me (with a stroke of genius) that it also works for the computer terminal, as in keystroke. Becoming one HELL of a compliment isn't it?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: lloyd61
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 12:38 AM

Kat, thanks for this interesting thread.

I have a few questions?

1. Kat what is the source of your faith? What do you consider as the final authority of your faith?

2. Seed you said, "It seems to me as a Christian/Hindu/Buddhist/Shinto/Baha'i/etc.", what is the source of this faith? What do you consider the final authority of your faith?

It order for me to believe in something I need a source and an authority. Whitout this I would drift around living by feelings only.

As a teenager, 45 years ago, I found the source of my faith. With that source came a book that has become the final authority of that faith.

About healing, "Lift the spirt of a person and healing will follow". The person body may not be healed but their spirit may be healed. My brother died of Cancer, His body lost the battel but his spirit "sored" until the end. Don't tell me everyones prayers, love or good will did not heal his spirit, I saw it happen.

When I sing "the Rose", I sing it as a memory of my brother. The last first could have been written with Ron in mind. That song is Healing for me.

Kat, stay the course.

Lloyd


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Escamillo
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 01:25 AM

Regarding religion, I'm only one of the most unsignificant and respectful followers of Jesus from Nazareth as a MAN, not as any divine entity, and don't beleive in energies or forces or astrology or alternative medicine. Then I absolutely adhere to Peter T's opinion. I've recently posted for help and a prayer for Venezuelan people, and I will fervorously accept a prayer or healing for myself or my beloved ones, the day I need them. Just because they come from PEOPLE like you and me. And if you see the list of threads, you'll find 95% music or more. Thanks to all for sending greetings to my son Mariano who was alone in Caracas in Christmas an NYE.
Best wishes to all EVEN IF IT DOESN'T WORK - Andrés :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 03:37 AM

Lloyd, I look for truth everywhere--your book, other books, the wisdom of my friends, my experience, science--wherever I find reason and comfort. I know you are a good person--I appreciate your prayers for my friend--and I am sure you feel your goodness is a result of your faith. I don't question that.

--seed


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jake Lindstrom
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:45 AM

I think the original intent of the thread was to respect someone's choice for privacy - to not be on display in a specifically named thread exposing details of an illness or other crisis for just anyone to read - but who still would welcome the encouragement and support privately through e-mails or personal messages. Kat is a very caring, compassionate individual and is to be praised for her ability to recognize and provide for the needs of others. I don't think this is about religion at all. It is about people caring about people. If it were me, I would not want my situation, well meaning as it may be, in a thread available to the comments of just anyone. Rather I would not mind at all hearing privately from those who might want to wish me well or offer support, encouragement or hope. It would be perfectly appropriate for Kat and/or one or two others to serve as conduits and receive private requests for support and to pass those requests on privately to those willing to respond to someone in need privately. There is no need for anything to be public if the recipient wishes to remain private. But the good that can come from knowing that others genuinely care, one person to another, is priceless. Keep this simple and to the purpose for which it was intended - helping someone through a difficult time.

Jake


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 07:23 AM

Jake, you have made a very good point.
Kat, if I can be of any help through personal messages or email please feel free to contact me.

Lloyd, I feel much the same way as what Charles has posted. My source of faith comes from many things. The final authority comes from my heart.

I have receive bundles of loving kindness from Katlaughing and I am very greatful to have such a caring friend as Kat in my life.

Bonnie


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 08:57 AM

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 09:31 AM

No amount of belief can create a fact. However,if it makes you feel better, isn't that enough?


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 10:44 AM

No amount of facts can create a belief.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Paul G.
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 01:50 PM

To Clare S....Any physician worth his/her salt will tell you that healing in an art, not a science. Science is the physciologic basis, the palate, from which the artist works. I work with medical doctors every day. My clinic cares for kids with cancer, juvenile diabetes, cystic fibrosis, AIDS, cerebral palsey, and every other debilitating, nasty illness of childhood. I observe on a daily basis the miracles of medicine and the men and women who direct them. I also observe on a daily basis the power of prayer, a good thought, a kind word, or just a caring glance in the lives of these children and their families. Without the strength of spirit to which this community regularly contributes, the artist has no canvas upon which to paint his/her miracles. I am not a person of great religious faith -- probably a product of my mixed Lutheran/Jewish heritage. I believe in what I can hear, see and touch. I have seen many times over the healing of a childs, or families spirit by the grace of of a community. For me, that is real.

pg


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 03:08 PM

Paul G, (and others)

Looking back at my previous posts, I obviously didn't express myself as clearly as I might have, or probably should have.

To point out that 'physciologic' is not actually a word, is perhaps immaterial. To point out the true medical nature of some of the conditions which you consider as being 'illness' would perhaps be churlish.

I would however like to make a few points:

So far as we can know, throughout history, there have been 'healers,' people have prayed to whatever god(s) they have chosen to place faith in, have consulted the 'wise' and have wished that those close to them would not suffer. Of course there is (at face value)nothing wrong with this, and it is perhaps a fundamental part of human nature.

Over the last 200+ years, average life expectancy has increased dramatically. I do not believe that there has been any great increase in the number of 'healers' or any advance in the number of people thinking 'healing thoughts.' (apart from the overall increase in global population)

There have however been huge medical / scientific advances. These advances are the reason behind increased life expectancy, not positive vibes.

I do not in anyway disagree that love and knowing that people care for a patient, and believe that the patient will get well, may have a positive effect on recovery. Indeed, various studies suggest that 'belief' can play an important part in the likelyhood of conquering various cancers etc. This is not to say that these vibes have had some 'magical' effect, the medical treatment did that bit...

As an analogy: Two guys who are equally qualified and well suited, go for interviews for the same job. The 1st guy's current boss tells him how wonderful he is, how well suited he is for promotion etc. The 2nd guys boss tells him how terrible he is, how he'd be lucky to keep his current position....

Guess who gets the job?

So, what's my problem with 'healing circles?'

On face value, nothing. And they may superficially do some good. However, I believe that they can be very dangerous. Beyond the possibe benefits that I've outlined above, such beliefs are only likely to increase heartache and pain through believing in god or human inspired 'miracles' which never materialise.

Take care, and thanks for listening.

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From:
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:27 PM

Clare,

you say ...I believe that they can be very dangerous... yes, but so can the medical treatment!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:34 PM

Anon,

I cut my last paragraph short as I thought that I'd written enough. On retrospect, perhaps I should have explained further.

In response to your message, I'd simply say that if I was suffering from some serious ailment, I'd prefer a scientifically trained doctor than any amount of hope and good wishes.

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Bert
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:47 PM

Sorry for the anonymous posting, I was using a different browser. I'm Bert.

Yes we go to the doctors but they are not always that good. When my second wife was dying from Lymphoma, she had one doctor treating the growth as obesity and putting her on a diet and another giving her poison ivy ointment for the skin lesions.

I just wish we'd had Kat and her healing circle behind us back then. At least we wouldn't have felt so alone and helpless.

So, I'm going to send my best wishes to everyone who needs them, they can't do any WORSE than those two quacks. And at least it'll make ME feel better than leaving my friends to suffer alone.

Bert.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:49 PM

None of us were advocating NOT seeking out whatever medical help one might need; so far as I know, none on here subscribe to the Christian Scientist beliefs which shun such.

I don't believe that it is ever that black and white. Wyo Woman's newspaper just carried a story about a baby in our town. This baby was born last summer with a serious heart defect. There were no good options; surgery might not work, it could even kill her; meds would work for a short time and then they would have to seriously look at surgery or death.

There's much more to it than that, BUT what the article focussed on was that despite nothing medically being done to reverse or repair this very real, physical, life-threatening defect, the heart began to mend itself. She is now home for the first time since birth and doctors say she will be able to participate in a normal life. Even the DOCTORS are calling THAT a miracle. They have no explanation.

Our minds are quite powerful. Didn't Jesus say something to the effect of "As you believe, so shall it be?"

Respectfully,

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: lamarca
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:58 PM

This has been a very interesting discussion, with many excellent points made. I find myself most in agreement with Jake Lindstrom; the issue that bothers me most about "Healing Circle" threads is not religious, but privacy related.

Folks, everything we post here is visible to anyone in the whole world with access to the Internet. I think that the well-wishers of the Healing Circle need to remember that discussion of a third party's medical or emotional condition WITHOUT their express consent on the World Wide Web is a grievous breach of privacy.

I think Kat's idea of establishing a Private e-mail circle of multi-faith individuals who would like to dedicate their thoughts, prayers and good wishes for those in need is a good one. People who want to contact the Healing Circle could just post a thread saying "Healing Circle help wanted", giving their E-mail or personal Mudcat addresses in the thread body to contact for details. That way, Kat and other folks who want to help will still get the request, but we won't have public discussions of other peoples' private traumas.

I'm a molecular biologist in the medical field. I don't know whether prayer and healing energy are effective, but I don't think anyone in this group is advocating that any of the people they wish well can get better or solve their crises solely by relying on the Healing Circle. As the old joke about chicken soup goes "It couldn't hurt!" Giving someone a stack of warm messages of support and love to help them through a hard time is a compassionate and charitable thing to do - exposing their hard time to the whole world, however, is not. Let's try to move the Healing Circle communications to the private world of E-mail and personal messages.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 05:14 PM

For the record, phoaks: I do NOT want to be the one responsible for faciitating the Healing Circle. It was an idea and/or suggestion. If someone contacts me, as lamarca suggests, I will be happy to help, but I do not want to carry the ball.

Thank you for your understanding.

katlaughing, who uses that because there IS another Kat who posts ocassionally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 05:53 PM

lamarca,

whoever you are, I think you display a good deal of intelligence

i'm fairly new here and having watched for a while, this is the first lengthy thread that I've followed and contributed to

the only conclusion that I can arrive at, is that, even though our reasons are as diverse as we are individual, no one thinks that 'healing circle' threads are appropriate here

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Paul G.
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 06:43 PM

Thanks you, Clare , for pointing out my erroneous vocabulary, immaterial though it was. As was subsequently pointed out, no one here, that I am aware of, has flatly rejected the value of traditional medicine, simply the utilization of complimentary/alternative intervention on a different level.

Lamarca's comments are on the money as well. My only point is...that if someone asks, I'm there...if only, as Bert notes, to let them know they are not alone.

Welcome to the 'cat Clare...I look forward to your contributions to some of our less controversial threads.

Paul


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 07:17 PM

Hope we can all remain friends.

Maybe I'm a bit slow, but have just realised that my last message said pretty much what Katlaughing said in his/her message that started this whole thing off!

funny how the circle turns around...


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 07:26 PM

I'd point out that the posting of a request still constitutes a thread. I know I'm just a buffoon, but I think a thread with a request for e-mail is still a thread is it not? Therefore I must also assume that the phrase regarding the INappropriateness of healing circle threads must be meant with the best intentions to say that discussions of the "situation" are somehow found not wanted, but its OK to ask for e-mail info???? Do I have it now? Is that it? In other words, A needs help. B posts a thread saying to send to some e-mail for details. C thru O can then write and get the info and send back their whatever. Do I have it?

Just curious.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 07:29 PM

Oy, Catspaw you lost me. But what you typed seemed so important.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 07:33 PM

Clare S (and anybody else), re remaining friends, as far as I am concerned, although I might have dissagreed with a few people in this debate, the idea of not being friends had not even occured to be. I think that you will find the same with just about everybody here.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 07:34 PM

I still don't take kindly to being told that my beliefs, which obviously don't match anothers', are ABSURD....To me that is a sign of intolerance. I may disagree with someone's position on any given issue, but I won't be obnoxious or rude enough to tell them they are absurd. I happen to have more respect for the opinions of others. I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that. Especially from someone that hasn't been around that much yet. She wasn't around in May when we were all sweating bullets on a daily basis while Catspaw was hanging by a thread. But if you ask him he will tell you that knowing we were all concerned about him made him feel better. It may not have helped him to heal physically, but just our contact with him made his ordeal much more bearable. He knew je wasn't alone....And NO, I won't go away....


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: kat/katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 07:34 PM

LOL, Spaw!

Actually Clare, it isn't that I don't think they are appropriate; it's that others don't. This thread will hopefully lead to some sort of compromise.

Have to say I agree with Spaw, though. Seems it would get a little confusing, plus once a thread is started, there is no holding the Mudders back; they will post even if you ask them not to.

Welcome, Clare, thanks for jumping in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: _gargoyle
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 08:53 PM

Kity Meowing - I do NOT want to be the one responsible for faciitating the Healing Circle.

My maternal grandmother used to say:

If not you? Who?

If not now? When?

This is pathetic!!!

Exactly, WHAT HAVE BEEN YOUR MOTIVES?


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: lloyd61
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 09:17 PM

While I believe in prayer for the healing of the mind, body and spirit, I also find lighting a candle helps me focus on a need.

There is a very old Gospel song, " When you pray, will you pray for me, will you mention my name in your prayers." I haven't thought of that song in over 50 years. Thanks for prodding my memory.

Lloyd61


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 10:22 PM

Given some thought to this one. Is it ritual or not? I'd say its the beginning of ritual. You are creating a structure to contain, encourage and control an emotional and spiritual event. In doing this the language used to convey feelings and thoughts is shifted somewhat. Sorry Micca I did not post to the thread about your illness, glad to hear you're better. I find it easier to respond to Seed saying he has friend who is very sick and he's worried than I do to an invitation to join a healing circle to send thoughts towards a sick person. The healing circle is one level of abstraction away from the personal and the immediate. Asking for help because of desperate and life threatening illness is one thing, to set up and discuss a contingency group to do what is already done by members of this group anyway seems superfluous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:08 PM

Banjer seems a bit of a miserable git. Is he always like that?

Lighten up Banj!

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Lenny
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:22 PM

The last few days have been informative and entertaining on Mudcat. I don't think theres a need to eliminate any people's threads or ideas, just maybe try to keep a balance. Perhaps if a thread is started, the original poster could wait for a few replies rather than commenting on each on individually. There is a lot of emotional caring around here, and it's very attractive to new people, but it won't thrive without music and laughter. There is lots of that right now. Thanx.

Len Evans


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:26 AM

Clare, Banjer was right. You came in on a discussion between friends and announced your presence by telling everyone that they were stupid...you seem to have changed your tone as the thread went on, and even, to an extent, your earlier stance that psychology had nothing to do with healing (there have been studies on the psychological differences between those who survive and those who succumb to cancer: optimism and a fighting spirit were stronger in the survivors than in the dearly departed.

We do have a sense of humor around here (I'm amazed you haven't been humorously trashed by Catspaw yet).

--seed


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jiminy Crickett & Miss Manners
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:41 AM

Clare S and Gargoyle

You were supposed to check your flamethrowers at the door, not your conscience and manners!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Mary G
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 02:25 AM

well if we are voting I think it is a great idea and it is certainly no problem to skip over posts you are not interested in...and there is a great connection between music and healing...and there has been some research (I can't say offhand how scientifically sound it is..) about how prayers for people, even people who didn't know they were being prayed for, hence no placebo effect, had some benefit...I say go for it..

mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:22 AM

"Lighten up Banj!"???? Clare comes into what many of us consider our cyber-community, tells us what we believe in is ABSURD and when I take a stand has the unmitigated gall to compare me to a 'miserable git.' Not in my house, my dear!! If anyone cares to take time to trace back my postings one would see I am usually on the side of merriment and fun. I love a good joke, don't mind some of the bad ones, and will use puns wherever they present themselves...BUT, coming into MY house and telling ME how stupid my beliefs are will raise my hackles.
In spite of her obvious lack of consideration for the thoughts of others I still welcome Clare to this little community, but rest assured I WILL NOT change my thoughts based on her attacks and will certainly not "go somewhere else and leave us folkies to discuss music," as suggested in her opening salvo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: llama
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:40 AM

The power of healing is mystical and real. I find it when I play my fiddle...that's not a hard stretch is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:43 AM

'I still don't take kindly to being told that my beliefs, which obviously don't match anothers', are ABSURD'. Banjer, when Clare was writing this you hadn't posted yet in this thread.
'Telling everyone that they were stupid'. BSeed, reread, Clare hasn't.
Thank you, Clare, for your thoughts.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 10:03 AM

It's taken me a while to get involved in this thread, but I want to say that I have benefited from the Healing Circle as both a participant and a recipient. I have no scientific basis for belief in any healing power to be gained from groups like this, but faith does not depend on scientific proof. If something is proven, it is no longer a matter of faith, but fact. And just because something is not proven, that does not necessarily mean that it does not exist.

That being said, I do appreciate the privacy concerns that have been expressed here and I am interested in working with whatever sort of solution the people here can come up with. I am confident that some sort of structure will evolve that will be workable and will not be "in the face" of those who prefer not to be confronted with it.

And please, let's all remember that our goal is to help each other.

jeffp


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:38 PM

Actually Claire, Banjar's a pretty darn good natured Mudcatter, and I think it takes a lot to get him riled up. In future you might preface things with "in my humble opinion", or "no offence intended", or as my daddy used to say "don't talk politics or religion". 'Course here on the Cat, we talk about both..but perhaps a lighter approach might get a more sympathetic response. Welcome anyway. We forgive quickly.

Rick


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:49 PM

Well, I guess I am going to have to come clean, and reveal myself to be a rude, stubborn bastard with evil intentions.
If someone asks for my prayers here or good wishes, and I am concerned, and I want to know how they are doing, I will respond here and ask here. We are a community, and keeping tabs on our various great news and bad news, and wishing people well and so on is part of it. People's threads here are part of the threads of people's lives. I want them here. I will do what I can to keep all the richness of people's lives unfolding right here. It is fun, educational, ennobling, humbling and deeply musicial. I want babies born right here in Mudcatland, the mother typing on her laptop as she goes (just to take her mind off her pain, of course!). I want people so happy about someone being cured or relieved of pain that they spontaneously contribute ballads of joy and choke up all the Internet service providers in the 10 directions.
I have not heard the slightest counter-argument that has any weight so far, just carping. Until someone can give me some intelligent reason why they are offended by people, here, at this place, giving virtual aid to others, I will go on supporting this evil vicious work. If people were posting threads labelled : THE HATING CIRCLE, I would be somewhat concerned, but that is personal taste. I am intransigent about responding here to impassioned requests for the miserable little good we can do for people in trouble, by wishing them well and praying for them. If someone wants to start a healing circle for me or for Hilary Clinton right here, I am for it -- I need it, she really needs it. If there is anyone here who doesn't feel they need to be prayed for spontaneously any time, in bus shelters, on the Internet, in Toys-R-US, by anyone who feels the urge, please let me know, so I can pray for you. And this is from a serious sceptic about the efficacy of healing lights or prayer!! But what possible harm can it cause???? And to have someone you have never met concerned enough about you to pray for you, or place you in a healing circle of light whatever the hell that is!! Is that not an incredible privilege in a world of people who don't give a shit about whether you live or die? Sorry, I just can't help it, I have struggled with it in my heart of hearts for about a micro nanosecond, and there it is. I am just a stubborn, evil bastard. I guess you will have to pray for me to see the light. Oh, rats, not supposed to do that here!!! PHOOOOOEY.
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 02:35 PM

Anyone remember hearing or singing this song as a child or parent? Did it help? I rocked a lonely child to sleep in a hospital one night to this song. (not my own child) his crying was keeping other kids awake, including my own. The poor bloody nurses where so busy, no-one had time for him. My daughter let me go and entertain him for a bit (next room) Why do we sing such drivel when the nurse could have drugged him to sleep? Did it help or heal anyone? what did it cost me? what did I gain? (other than the profuse thanks of five nurses and one doctor and four other parents, and a free coffee) By the way, I cannot sing it anymore; but perhaps someone else might need it one day. Isn't that why it was written? Maybe music/singing is like a healing circle, worthless. But it didn't seem to bother the nurses or the doctor; and it worked for the kid, that night at least. Yours, Aye. Dave

ALL THROUGH THE NIGHT (2)

Sleep, my babe, no ill betide thee, All through the night. Guardian Angels (MUDCATTERS) watch beside thee All through the night. O+er thy cradle stars are beaming, Silver bright the moon is gleaming; Thou shalt tread the land of dreaming. All through the night.

While the earth in calm reposes, All through the night. Thou shalt sleep as sleep the roses, All through the night. Hushed from sorrow and repining, Rest until the sun is shining, In my loving arms reclining, All through the night.

@Welsh @lullaby filename[ THRUNIT2 Tune file : THRUNITE

CLICK TO PLAY S Apr98


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 02:38 PM

Give it up Peter........Ain't nobody gonna' change nobody and more's the pity. I had a reply to this thread, rehashing my earlier post and yours, but I wanted to wait until I saw Banj's reaction to "miserable git."

Actually Banj and Peter are kind, considerate and humane, human beings. Neither would intentionally step on another person's religious toes. Banj, Peter, Kat, Rick, Mick, Leej, Jeri, Seed, Art, Sandy, Allen, Alan, alison, bbc, Duane, and about a hundred or more others did in fact sweat bullets for me back in May. Perhaps one of the best things they provided was support to Karen and a way for her to focus on something other than her disbelief over what was happening to me. She had threads readily available to her that she read every day. She's a lab tech and knew the medical situation, but her need at that time was spiritual. For that support alone, I will always be in their debt.

We are all far more aware of the "religious" issues at this point. Jon my friend, I DO understand. The "Healing Circle" was to me more of a prefix to allow people to know the content of the thread. I state once again, as Peter has......I will continue to post as I see fit to send best wishes or support to anyone here. I'll also say Happy Birthday, Congratulations or whatever if I'm so inclined. YOU may choose to do so too or choose not to post to such threads. Your choice. Privacy can always be requested and indeed such is the case with one of our number at this time. The argument about too much BS is simply that...BS. Max's new search engine makes the forum completely accessible whether you wish to look up Cletus or CarrickFergus, Amazing Grace or POSSUMS!!! Or maybe you want to read the posting of that miserable git, Banj.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Áine
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 03:00 PM

Dear Dave,

Thank you so much for reminding of 'All Through The Night.' My sweet mother, God rest her, used to sing that to me when I was small. I had forgotten most of the words and I can't thank you enough for reminding me of them. Now I can sing this wonderful song to my children.

And as far as the Healing Circle messages are concerned, I guess I'm one of the 'rude, stubborn (folks) with evil intentions,' because if I want to ask my friends here on the 'Cat for their prayers and support, I darn well will.

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 03:14 PM

My darlin' Aine.....So what kind of support can you give to my sagging, tortoise ass?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Áine
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 03:24 PM

Dear Spaw,

You mean you didn't realize that 'I've got your whole world here in my hands'? (insert rude, stubborn, evil snicker here)

Luv ya, Áine


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: MMario
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 03:53 PM

*urk* damn, I wish, I wish, owGAWD I WISH!, you don't know HOW much I wish I wasn't one of those people who visualize as they read.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 04:18 PM

Dear Peter and Spaw,

I was listening to the cut from Musicman's "Farewell" CD on Mudcat Radio when I read your postings. Please know that your words, coupled with that music, helped to "heal" the wounds I've felt over these past few days.

Through the release of tears and sadness, I find a deep gratitude in my heart for such as you and the others who so willingly and lovingly share themselves, their music, and their words with whomever wants to cick on and read.

DavetheAM: Thank you. My sisters and my mom used to sing me to sleep with that song and I have loved it always.

I'd also like to say what Peter, Spaw and Áine said, goes for me, too.

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 07:24 PM

Well, this "miserable git" thinks we ought all put it behind us, let bygones be bygones and get on with what WE think is right. If anyone asks for a little moral support or requests a prayer or two, they've got it! None of us thinks that this could ever replace professional care but it does fill a void that even professional medical care can't provide for....AND...it doesn't cost anything. All of us have at some time in our lives received an uplift from someone, a kind word or deed that helped us along life's way. Let's keep the tradition rolling, lets pass it on so that perhaps some day when WE again need it, it will be there.

Wolfgang, your statement in your post, "Banjer, when Clare was writing this you hadn't posted yet in this thread", I don't understand. I do believe that the moral support given by fellow Mudcatters in time of need is good. Whether I had posted or not, that is still my belief and Clare did make a blanket statement that all who thought this were absurd! Also she is saying that any who take part in this should go elsewhere. That is not right!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 07:37 PM

Yeah, but what do you know you miserable git!?!?!?!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 07:47 PM

Takes one to know one Spaw!!!!!

(IT'S A JOKE, PHOAKS!!!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:57 PM

I don't know a hell of a lot. I don't even know what a miserable git is...Like an old timer I knew was fond of saying...."I don't understand everything I know"


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bbc
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 10:15 PM

I second Banjer. People, you have said it all, more than once. Please let it go or some of us are not going to want to be here anymore.

bbc


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: _gargoyle
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:09 AM

Ah don't know, what ya knaw

But...Glad ya been heeled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Kristi H
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 01:29 AM

You never know when you may need some healing yourselves. Life has a habit of coming up and kicking you directly in the butt. When it does, people like us will not only support you emotionally, we'll make sure you hear some good tunes along the way. K


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 02:01 AM

Wolfgang: These were her words in her first post. While she did not use the word "stupid," she certainly expressed the thought "stupid." So you don't have to scroll back to read them, here is her message:

If you really think that your 'thoughts' can heal you are sadly wrong. No decently conducted experiment has shown any difference over a control group.

Of course, you are entitled to your beliefs however absurd, but please go somewhere else and leave us folkies to discuss music.

If "absurd" doesn't mean "stupid" in that context, I sure as hell don't know what it does mean.

However, I had completely forgiven her that earlier transgression, until she called Banjer a miserable git (the fact that he IS a miserable git is beside the point--he's OUR miserable git). "I don't care if he is a hound/They can't go kickin' my dog around..."

Now Banjer has forgiven, so I can, too. Come out, Clare, and join the community. And Gargoyle, if you'd stop reading the threads you hate, you'd have more time to post to music threads to keep them from dropping off the bottom of the thread list...

--seed


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 03:56 AM

Thank ya Mr. Seed for your kind words...Of course you realize that speaking out in support of us miserable gits makes you one too! At least an honorary one, and it would be MY GREAT honor to bestow the title upon you:

Kneel BSeed
The Seed kneels and gets tapped rather hard on the head with the business end of a banjo, causing him to collapse to the floor
I dub thee 'Miserable Git' Rise now and 'GIT' on with your music. Ahem, I said 'Rise now and......'
Would somebody please help this dazed miserable git offa my floor?

Kristi, a lot of those good tunes you speak of ARE emotional support! Nice thoughts!

"Will the circle be unbroken
by and by Lord, by and by-e,
There's a happy home awaitin'
At the Mudcat for you and me."


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:08 AM

Skin-so-Soft has been used as a very effective insect repellent for as long as I can remember. Of course from what I remember quite a few of those Avon products could repel more than bugs!! Like the time my little brother went out one of his first dates. I think he used a whole bottle of that Wild Country....couldn't get near him for a week!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:30 PM

Being as several of the above messages include views as to what 'Clare' might have meant, I guess I should respond.

Whilst I stand by my view that you are unlikely to improve any medical condition merely through your thoughts or prayers, you are of course free to believe so. Indeed you may help people feel better along the way.

Before I leave this, I'd just ask: what if you forget or are unable to perform your daily / weekly healing prayer / ritual? Does the paient stop recovering?

Banjer, my apologies if I offended you. But if as you say, you consider Mudcat to be your community, well I think you best get used to being offended. Sorry to offend you again, but you do come across as being a bit of a 'stick in the mud' OK I'm new here, but mudcat isn't your house.

Peace and love to all,

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:45 PM

Banjer, no gain withouth pain, I guess. Thanks for bestowing upon me the O.M.G. (Order of the Miserable Git). I will wear the sash proudly over my Oshkosh overhauls and under my Land's End field coat.

--seed(O.M.G.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:55 PM

can i have an OMG too please, or is it limited to certain mudcat contributors?


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: wildlone
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:02 PM

The Prophet Mohammid PBUH once said that a pagan who lived a good life and was caring of his fellows was a better man than a Muslim who lived a bad one.
FOR AS LONG AS PEOPLE DISCOVERED IT RELIGION HAS DIVIDED PEOPLES, IT IS NO MATTER WHO YOU WORSHIP BUT HOW YOU WORSHIP. IF IT IS DONE IN LOVE, WITHOUT HURT TO YOUR FELLOW BEINGS,CAN IT BE SO BAD.
The key word is Toleration.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:08 PM

given the above,

sorry to anyone i upset by saying what i thought

sorry if i was personally offensive by what i thought

sorry that as americans you can't understand me

sorry that americans are (with numerous exeptions) very dim

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:10 PM

Please don't take the about literally

I pray for an appreciation of irony...

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:13 PM

clare, LOL.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:18 PM

What kind of music do you like, Clare?
yours, Peter T. (A Canadian)


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:26 PM

A fairly oblique query...

If it was intended to stop my making 'difficult' comments then it will only serve temporarily. But as you ask:

Nic Jones, Kate Rusby, Pete Morton, Pretty much everything past and present by the Waterson : Carthy clan, oh yes and the Beatles


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: wildlone
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 06:02 PM

clare s,we get this all the time,the one thing that holds us together is our love of music. I think you have pretty much covered what I like in music Apart from most Fellside recordings,Maddy Prior,Sheb Woolley well loads.
dave of Dorset


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 06:08 PM

Sooooooooooo, Clare, where ya from?? We 'mercans aren't always able to tell here in cyberspace. I've followed this fascinating thread in silence but I must say, I'm holding all of you in the Light, until you Lighten Up- there's been a lot of gentle jabs that seem to cut right to the quick and I order you all to hold hands and sing "It's a small world after all" and call me in the morning.
Allison-with-2-ls-who-is-NOT-dim-and-NOT-a-miserable-git NOI BG LOL ESQ


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:50 PM

Well, here I are, the absurd, dim, American, miserable git, and damn proud of it....Clare, in spite of your obnoxious and rude behavior, I still welcome you to the Mudcat, the community of which I am very proud to be a part, my house and the house of all that participate here. There are those that will think me strange for this response, but a community is made up of many different personalities. Some are very lovable, some less likeable. But it takes all kinds to give us a sense of balance. Lord, if we all believed the same thing there would be no need for discussions or debates. What a dull place this world of ours would be. What part of the world do you call home?


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:02 PM

Yes Clare, you too can be awarded the OMG award. You realize of course that makes you as much a Miserable Git as we are. In fact yours can have oak leaf clusters or whatever them things are! Enjoy!

BTW Phoaks, that one post about the skin so soft was meant to go into the chigger thread. How it wound up here I have NO idea!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:07 PM

Clare, would you like us to hold a healing circle for you? I think that could be arranged.

BB


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:26 PM

A healing thread for me - lovely as it sounds, I think a healing circle for me and banjer's relationship may be more in order...

I get the impression that he doesn't like me :-(

He really should lighten up and get a better sense of humour - too serious...

Love you banji banjo man Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:49 PM

Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without. Confucious

Without music, life would be a mistake. I only believe in a God that knew how to dance. Nietzsche

I have found among my papers a sheet.. in which I call architecture frozen music. Goethe

Life is like a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. Voltaire

PAX people, peace please, there are no OMG's here just passionate people talking to each other. Show some charity for each others opinions; and let us have and end to to arguing. Peace, good digestion and pleasure depends upon it for this weekend. Get back to some music. Yours, Aye. Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:57 PM

Well said Dave

Unfortunately, I am amused when the banji banjo banjer man falls for the bait every time...

I will stop now, so long as he or his friend don't become nasty again.

Ceacefire declared

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 12:00 AM

Clare s, I appreciate your calling a ceasefire but you saying "Unfortunately, I am amused when the banji banjo banjer man falls for the bait every time..." does appear to imply that you get some form of pleasure out of baiting or winding people up. I trust that you can confirm that I am mistaken in my interpretation of your words.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:01 AM

The man that hath no music in him, and is not moved by sweet concord of sound, is fit for strategms and spoils. The motions of his spirit are as dull as Arebus. Let no such man be trusted. I may have mis quoted Shakespere..if I did, someone will tell me. You know what they say, a friend is someone who will tell you that you have broccoli in your teeth. As good friend will pick it out for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:10 AM

Well spoken, Kendall. But on the other hand, one can pick one's friends and one can pick one's nose, BUT....one should NEVER pick a friends nose!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Frankie
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:45 AM

I just love a friendly picking session.

"...rhythm and harmony find their way into the secret places of the soul, bearing grace in their movements and making the soul graceful..." Plato (shamelessly edited)

Thanks for "frozen music", Dave.

Frankie


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 02:04 PM

Beautifully edited Frankie, and you are welcome. "In art, and in the higher ranges of science, there is a feeling of harmony which underlies all endeavour. There is no true greatness in art or science without that sense of harmony" Einstein. Nice to see a ceasefire amongst our correspondants. Yours, Aye. Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: flattop
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 04:17 PM

I was a tad cynical about the healing powers of Mudcat until I read Lloyd61's e-mail - remembering a hymn that he hadn't in 50 years. Surely this is proof of a healed memory, a first thread miracle. Throw away your sheet music and praise the Lord!


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 05:31 PM

Jon,

Unfortunatly, you aren't mistaken...

But in the interest of peace and mutual understanding, I won't bother to explain - I'll keep it to myself

Clare


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: RichM
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 12:33 AM

What if...the original message in this thread had been written in the form of a song? Would anyone then have said: "no, it's inappropriate to sing about healing circles? " . I think not...let's all apply some of that same acceptance to this wonderful form of written communication. The internet is a wonderful thing...but it requires that we all know when and where to pick our battles. Better to ignore a thread than to attempt to change a person's basic beliefs.

Richard McCarthy


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Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 12:56 AM

Richard, I think that you have missed the point completely. There are more than one issue involved here but assuming that we accept the non mucisal contend and that whover is the person in need, we come back to the idea of the healing circle.

This was fine by me and did read them. The problems occured when people started to say how they did things and how the person is healed...

As a result, as a Christain, I am then put in the position of at least appearing to believe and agree with those methods and may also at a minimum, be seen to be joining in with the practices that not only I disagree with but are in total opposition to my faith.

If that side of things had been left alone, and people were simply asked to send good wishes and do whatever they believed was right without inflicting their beliefs on others, half the controversy regarding the healing circle would not have existed.

Your last sentence is indicicate of what was starting to happen within those threads and why some objections were raised.

Jon


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 28 November 2:52 AM EST

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