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Broadcasting Folk on BBC

GUEST,eddoho 19 Feb 20 - 07:22 AM
Dave Hanson 19 Feb 20 - 07:45 AM
r.padgett 19 Feb 20 - 08:46 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Feb 20 - 08:47 AM
GUEST 19 Feb 20 - 08:47 AM
Joe G 19 Feb 20 - 08:56 AM
FreddyHeadey 19 Feb 20 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 19 Feb 20 - 03:29 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Feb 20 - 05:57 PM
r.padgett 20 Feb 20 - 06:18 AM
Bonzo3legs 20 Feb 20 - 06:22 AM
r.padgett 20 Feb 20 - 06:28 AM
G-Force 21 Feb 20 - 05:58 AM
GUEST 21 Feb 20 - 06:36 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 20 - 06:52 AM
Stanron 21 Feb 20 - 10:06 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Feb 20 - 11:44 AM
r.padgett 22 Feb 20 - 03:23 AM
The Sandman 22 Feb 20 - 04:27 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Feb 20 - 04:57 PM
GUEST,kenny 23 Feb 20 - 04:36 AM
GUEST,kenny 23 Feb 20 - 04:38 AM
The Sandman 23 Feb 20 - 05:17 AM
Jim Martin 23 Feb 20 - 06:12 AM
Bonzo3legs 23 Feb 20 - 06:40 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Feb 20 - 09:13 AM
GUEST,Jerry 23 Feb 20 - 11:38 AM
The Sandman 23 Feb 20 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,crumbly 24 Feb 20 - 05:56 AM
Dave Hanson 24 Feb 20 - 06:42 AM
Dave Hanson 24 Feb 20 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,Jerry 24 Feb 20 - 06:50 AM
GUEST,crumbly 24 Feb 20 - 08:51 AM
GUEST,kenny 24 Feb 20 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,crumbly 25 Feb 20 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,banksie 25 Feb 20 - 06:58 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 25 Feb 20 - 07:03 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 25 Feb 20 - 07:04 AM
Nigel Paterson 25 Feb 20 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,kenny 25 Feb 20 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 25 Feb 20 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 25 Feb 20 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,Jerry 25 Feb 20 - 07:03 PM
r.padgett 26 Feb 20 - 02:51 AM
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Subject: Folklore: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,eddoho
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 07:22 AM

Jack
"adding layers to Google..." but the way around is simple to get the BBC iPlayer working in USA or any part of the world and the best part is Its all free...


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 07:45 AM

The BBC hates folk music and broadcasts next to none in the UK.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 08:46 AM

This is due to the serious lack of recording of folk singers from UK in the 1960s, 70s 80s through probably present days 2020

Where are the Peter Bellamy, Nick Jones, Pete Coe, Dave Burland, Tony Capstick, Harvey Andrews, Derek Brimstone etc tv recordings? I would ponder ~ are they ALL Radio?

I see that some Folk Festivals have Screens to aid sight of performers nowadays ~ I do hope that current star are being recorded?

Ray


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 08:47 AM

There have been "folk/world music" programmes on BBC Radio 3 in recent years, and what we might broadly regard as folk music does work its way into the classical pot-pourri-style programmes such as Essential Classics and the early evening In Tune Mixtape. It feels like integration, for which there's much to be said, as opposed to the segregation of separate folk music programmes. I use the word "segregation" deliberately tendentiously. The Beeb has been doing the same thing with jazz.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 08:47 AM

They like talking about it, but often ill-informed & misleading, and totally unwilling to provide a platform for singers & musicians to actually sing and play!
Unless they are famous, of course.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Joe G
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 08:56 AM

Local BBC radio has several very good folk programmes that certainly don't just feature 'famous' people.

I'm not sure that 'famous' is even an appropriate word in a folk context. Most people will not have heard of a single recent folk artist or group


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 09:22 AM

^^^^^ !!! I know I'm not technically minded enough to know if it's safe to click and follow a link from an unidentifiable guest on their first post?

usersearch.cfm?who=GUEST%2Ceddoho


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 03:29 PM

I worked for the BBC for 32 years and retired a couple of years ago. I am utterly disgusted with them at the moment, however that is another thread.
The BBC will not allow Folk music on the TV for one simple reason. It is not visual.
I was filmed several times showing my work with Gypsy Wagons. I sang a few songs and about a quarter of one verse went out on air. That's how it is and will be I'm afraid.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Feb 20 - 05:57 PM

The Beeb doesn't allow performances of late Beethoven quartets on TV either, Nick. I'm not complaining, even though those quartets are the music of the spheres. As it happens, I'm listening to the E flat quartet, Op 127, right now.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: r.padgett
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 06:18 AM

Yet BBC Alba put Gaelic music and great music too with Port and Seirm and Celtic Connections (some years old) which demonstrates great musicianship and instruments like Uilleann pipers, Gaelic and Irish and the wonderful Julie Fowlis

What are the current BBC English programmes doing? Bearing in mind the incredible standard of British music from a highly talented youthful cohort of folk singers who are interpreting traditional songs and music and writing their own folk songs?

Not a lot I hear you say!!

Ray


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 06:22 AM

But then Gaelic music and silly Irish dancing has street cred with the BBC!!


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: r.padgett
Date: 20 Feb 20 - 06:28 AM

So what does it take to get street cred back ~ if was even there to start with?

Morris and Sword are oft seen in adverts and many participants work and play around the practices as do singers

More popular than the BEEB seem to think, yet a minority participative pastime and following?

Ray


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: G-Force
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 05:58 AM

Music on television has never really worked. Even the proms and the young musician comp. seem to need endless gatekeepers getting in the way.

Agree regarding BBC Alba - without watching it all that much, I reckon I see more folk on there than all the rest of TV put together.

Also agree regarding Beethoven's last quartets - brilliant stuff, they're 200 years old and I still don't reckon I've got my head round them.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 06:36 AM

Live music of ANY sort is hard to find on TV- plenty of talking about it!
Why could they manage it in the early days of the revival?-

'Hootenanny'etc with Ray & Archie Fisher, the Spinners, Nadia Cattouse, alex Campbell were just folk club acts at the time- a knowledgeable & sympathetic MC, with a sense of humour, in a convivial atmosphere, would still work, I reckon.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 06:52 AM

That's the delicious thing about 'em, G-Force: a whole lifetime wouldn't be long enough for that. I find scholarship regarding them to be woeful on the whole, but one book I'd recommend without reservation is The Beethoven Quartets by Joseph Kerman. I can't sight-read music but I can follow a score, and I've found that to be quite instructive when listening to the quartets (though I generally prefer to sit back and absorb!) This post is a blatant sidetrack, of course, but I'd point out that even Beethoven's late quartets contain allusions to folk music: there's a German country dance ("alla tedesca") in Op 130, a strong hint of a pub band slightly losing its way in the second movement of Op 132 and a solemnly jolly rustic village-green stomp in the finale of Op 127. The mischievous scherzo of Op 131 has a tune that sounds like it came from a silly folk song or kiddies' playground song.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 10:06 AM

You do get Folk on the BBC, but you don't get regular Folk programs. Seth Lakeman was a guest on a Radio 3 program maybe last week and he talked some and played and sang some stuff as well. Radio 3 will play the occasional jazz track, the occasional world music track and the occasional folk track embedded in it's mostly classical output.

There's a program of Early Music on a Sunday afternoon and that is not a million miles away from Folk Music. BBC 4 has the occasional Folk program although there is more American Folk than UK based.

Friday night tends to be music night on BBC 4 and tonight's emphasis is in Rock n Roll. I don't have much difficulty in seeing R n R as pretty much the same kind of thing as Folk Music, and Early music the same, so I suppose I'm easily satisfied.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Feb 20 - 11:44 AM

I agree with all that.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: r.padgett
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 03:23 AM

So still NO tv coverage and no recording of the English folk singing and playing and therefore nothing to look back upon in time as to the highly competent instrumentalists and singers ~ the BBC ARE doing a disservice to the British folk scene ~as I say above gone on for near 50years now

Ray


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:27 PM

i fail tosee why bonzo describes irish dancing as silly is he barking?


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 20 - 04:57 PM

Nah. He's Croydon.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:36 AM

Very good Steve - got me off to a good start today that did. :)
There have certainly been several good folk music programmes here in Scotland in the past, and I don't see why it couldn't happen again, if the will was there.
"The Corries" had an excellent series in the 1980s. They did their thing, but what was great was the quality of the guests they had - I can remember Christy Moore, Finbar Furey, Loudon Wainwright III, the Chieftains, and, memorably, a stunning performance by Paco de Lucia.
The 1980s had a series recorded in Edinburgh, "Fiddles & Whistles An' A'", which had early "Silly Wizard", Dougie MacLean, June Tabor and Martin Simpson, the Albion Band.
I can't recall anything of similar quality since then, apart from some of the excellent productions on BBC Alba.
I started off taking an interest in this music, and was introduced to much of it in the first place by the programmes which my parents liked by "The Spinners" in the late 1960s. The folk scene at the time looked down their noses at them , and the Corries here in Scotland, but these were popular programmes, with respectable viewing figures.
It could happen again, but how to bring that about is the question. Any answers to that ? Would it be worth the effort ?


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 04:38 AM

I should add for the sake of clarity, that I'm not 100% sure these were BBC programmes, may have been STV. In any case, I don't care who makes the programmes.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 05:17 AM

Isuppose all the pollution in croydon must affect the grey matter.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Jim Martin
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 06:12 AM

'Ceol aig a Chaisteal' was a good series on fiddle music which Grampian TV produced and was subsequently repeated on STV and BBC Alba.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 06:40 AM

Actually very South Croydon, roughly 500 yards from open fields and woods!!!


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 09:13 AM

You can't wriggle out of it, mate. Croydon is Croydon!


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 11:38 AM

I thought the Aly Bain and Phil Cunningham sessions were a rare example of good TV showcasing of roots music. However, I daresay it was again largely Celtic and American music, with little English folk music being covered. BBC4 does have some great music documentaries, but English folk music is very rarely covered.
The problem is that English folk has a serious image problem to rise above, and TV companies can rarely portray it without reverting to banal stereotyping (bales of hay, etc), or ensuring that a presenter talks over any such performance (eg pub musicians forever consigned to the backdrop).


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Feb 20 - 12:34 PM

wouldnt surprise me if he really lives in penge, the croydon penge border used to be known as croinge, perhaps he is from croinge


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 05:56 AM

If it was in Ireland, Croydon would have a lyrical song in its praise...

'Sweet Croydon stands in Surrey, a place of lovely fame
The blossom on the cherry trees in town it does remain
The lovely people of all hues do show their many charms
And welcome you to Croydon town and take you in their arms'

a lot of cobblers, yes, but why no songs in praise of Basildon or Middlesbrough or Motherwell?-

I mean, have you ever been to 'Sweet Tralee' or 'Limerick (She's a Lady)'?- if they can do it, why not British places?


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 06:42 AM

The Song Of Swaledale.

Beautiful Dale Home of the Swale.

Beautiful beautiful dale.


Dave H


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 06:45 AM

Should have written,

Beautiful Dale, home of the Swale.

How well do I love thee,

How well do I love the,

Beautiful, beautiful Dale

Beautiful beautiful Dale

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 06:50 AM

Apart from being unexceptional (ie of nondescript character, which is no crime in itself), none of those places have names that either rhyme or scan easily if to be used in verse or song lyrics. Many Irish place names, for example, have a lyrically pleasing arrangement of short and long syllables, as do many Native American and native Australian names for settlements.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 08:51 AM

Adieu to thee, sweet Basildon, you were my native home
Tis many years since I did travel o'er the foam
O when will I behold your retail parks again,
For now my exile's fate is lovely sweet Gravesend'

how's that? more crap but two for the price of one!


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 24 Feb 20 - 11:48 AM

Great example last night on BBC Alba, who broadcast the Irish TG4 "Gradam Awards" from Belfast. I missed the first half, but both the BBC2 Folk Awards and the Scottish "Trad Awards" could learn a lot from the Irish way of doing things. No competitive element pitting 1 musician against any other. These awards are given on the basis of achievement in the field of Irish traditional music. In the hour I managed to see , awards were given to the following :

Fiddler Josie Nugent - for her work in music therapy working with musicians with Downs syndrome.
Fiddler Seamus Connolly - for services in teaching and promoting traditional Irish music in Boston for over 40 years.
Tipperary accordion player Ned Kelly who has created a "folk orchestra" of what seemed to be between 40 and 50 young musicians. He and the orchestra have raised around 250,000 euros for various charitable causes over recent years.
Harp player Laoise Kelly was awarded the title "Musician Of The Year", for her work over the years promoting the harp and teaching and encouraging young players.
The award winners played out with a selection of music commemorating Johnny Connolly, Paddy Fahey and Arty McGlynn, who had all departed from us last year.
If you're going to have awards at all, this is how to do it, but that's another argument for another thread.
I just wanted to put on record my gratitude to BBC Alba for broadcasting this programme. Would that we could get programmes of music of similar quality here in Scotland.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,crumbly
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 05:11 AM

sounds like a sensible approach by TG4- traditional music is NOT about competitions, even if the UK TV people would like it to be, so they can have another moronic hit show with the 'Masked Melodeonist'


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,banksie
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:58 AM

The does seem to be a desperate fear of appearing xenophobic by having any concentration on almost any English art form that is not `high' art.

A good few years ago now Channel 4 had a series running on world music, so I wrote in and asked: `really great you have a programme on world music.....can we have one on English music?' and was told I was being xenophobic for even asking. There does seem to be a line of thought here that having an interest in English folk music ipso facto means strong affiliation with the organisations stretching forward from the Empire Loyalists to the BNP, and the Tommy Robinson EDL crowd, and I suspect that could not be further from the truth


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 07:03 AM

Kenny forgot to mention Josephine Marsh, composer of the year. And she too deserves a mention.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 07:04 AM

And Sharon Howley, young musician of the year, they were probably in the part Kenny missed.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:01 AM

Back in the 60s when BBC Radio employed producers of the calibre of Frances Line & Ian Grant, folk music had a more secure foothold in the broadcast schedules. Our work was respected & valued.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 11:12 AM

Haven't seen that part of the programme yet, Peter, as you guessed. I look forward to seeing it on the "repeat".


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 12:46 PM

It should be
Here : Gradam Cheoil 2020


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 06:10 PM

I think if the BBC did folk music, it would probably be awful.

An English White Heather Club.   see BBC4.

We need our own channel on Amazon prime.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 25 Feb 20 - 07:03 PM

Yes, I’m sure it would be awful, but only because of the ignorance and prejudice against that part of our heritage. At one time it was thought too subversive and left wing for wider coverage, but now perversely too likely to be construed as right wing and nationalistic. How on earth did we end in such a parlous state, when every other country seems to treasure their musical heritage? No wonder our performers have to go elsewhere to receive the audience and accolades they deserve.


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Subject: RE: Broadcasting Folk on BBC
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Feb 20 - 02:51 AM

So unless some one comes up with inroads to tv we are unlikely to have proper coverage of English folk song and music ~ in my view the ultimate "merger" between pop and contemporary folk will become further blurred ~ leaving traditional songs and music ~could these splits become useful in the future?

Ray


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