Creative group

Subject: Creative group
From: Danlbear
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 11:30 AM

I have been on here a long time, but I never post. Well, until today anyway. After reading through the threads, the creativity of this group makes me feel a bit inadequate. Keep posting though. I enjoy reading.

Dan

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Bert
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 12:16 PM

Me too Danlbear. It doesn't stop me from posting though.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 12:23 PM

I made the same statement when someone referred to those who don't post as "lurkers." I had been on the mudcat for several months and found offense at the term. One day I just stepped out of my comfort zone and posted to a thread ... and the rest is history. Occasionally that old devil "folksnobbery" rears its ugly head at someone's post, but less and less, and it even happens to us "oldtimers." So ... my advice is ... if you have something you would like to add, it will be appreciated and will add depth to our "conversations" ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Danlbear
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 12:23 PM

Well Bert...For some reason, it hasn't stopped me this morning...smiles

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 12:30 PM

Welcome aboard Danlbear, whats your favourite music mate? Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Danlbear
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 12:39 PM

Dave...I don't know if you can classify it or not. It definitely is folk music though. Mostly ballads. Greensleeves to The circle game...favorite artists...Gordon Lightfoot to name one of many.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 12:43 PM

A good Canadian singer, he who immortalised the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Good choice, very fond of his Pony Man song myself. used to sing it to the "Sprogs" until one told me I couldn't sing worth a damn, and the other discovered "The Spice girls". Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Danlbear
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 12:50 PM

I can see what the hook is here. I don't know many people who sing folk music in my area anymore. Everybody has gone on to bigger and better things...know what I mean?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Bert
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 12:52 PM

Where's here Danlbear?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From:
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 01:51 PM

Peoria Illinois Bert

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: danlbear
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 01:54 PM

Oops...forgot to set my cookie

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: JamesJim
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 05:24 PM

I'm a new-comer as well(about 2 months) and find my visits very enlightening. I've been singing/playing folk music of all kinds for a lot of years (in Kentucky). It's just good to see that so many people are carrying on this great tradition!

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 05:43 PM

I just wanted to say that although Gordon Lightfoot is not trendy I thought "Boss Man" was a hell of a song.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: JenEllen
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 05:56 PM

Welcome abord Danlbear. Do they still sell hip-waders in Illinois? You'll probably need some if you hang around here for long. Have you tried the various engines related to folk in looking for things in your area? I used to live in Indiana, and there was lots to do. From the ol' Bean Blossom Festivals to local gatherings. Good Luck, Elle

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 06:07 PM

Danlbear,

Welcome aboard. 'Twas I that made that reference to "lurkers". No offense was intended. It's just a common internet term for those who read rather than write.

Moonchild is right. Just pop on in. Don't aim to be creative. The idea is not to keep up with Catspaw or Peter or Seed, it is to share what you have. If you have some information, share it. We also welcome opinions even if like elbows people can have more than one.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: paddymac
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 06:25 PM

Danlbear - My "story" is not unlike moonchild's comment above. You'll find some folks are compulsive posters, and most offer less frequent comment. Most are conversational in tone, and many are more philosophical and scholarly in nature. There are also the occasional "flamers". There is a collective community here that is made up of people who share an interest in folk & blues music, but who also have divergent backgrounds and opinions on almost any topic you can imagine. We try hard to be courteous, but tempers do flare from time to time. Welcome to our global family. Pull up a chair, put your feet up by the fire, and relax. You're at home with the reat of the family.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Victoria
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 06:37 PM

I posted for the first time not long ago, and everyone has been really great and open here (thanks!) I was just so excited (after several disapointments) at finding a folk board where people engaged in discussion and posted regularly, that I couldn't help but jump in! I really enjoy the time that I spend here, so Mudcatters, thanks!!

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: fulurum
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 07:34 PM

i,e only been a "mudcatter" myself for a short time myself. the folks here have helped me and hopefuly i have helped them. looking forward to the same in the future.

"for the good times, and the high times through the suffering and pain it's the songs of generations, singing in my veins, i still hear that old time music of good friends now long gone i am here tonight to pass the music on."

from "Pass the Music On" by Tom Chapin & Si Kahn

welcome new friend

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 07:55 PM

Paddymac - I recommend that your well chosen words above be permanently placed at the Mudcat gateway, so that EVERYONE is reminded before they post or read. Well done, John.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 08:12 PM

I agree with that comment from John in Brisbane about Paddymac's outline of the Mudcat. I think they would fit very well in the kind of FAQ or welcome page being talked about in this thread at the moment.

(In case the clicky thing went wrong, I mean the one headlined "Needed? Song history FAQ ?")

And I quite agree that the term "lurkers" is offensive, and I think we should abandon it here. Maybe "Angels" - for, as we all know, "fools rush in where Angels fear to thread"

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: MMario
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:34 PM

McGrath - that hurt! owww! (you caught me taking a swallow and pepsi BURNS in the nasel cavities!)

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:40 PM

RiB ... didn't remember that it was you who used the term "lurkers." It raised my ire so much that I fired back a rebuttal and never did remember who said it! Reckon you owe me a "Biscuit Blues" lesson at annap's for speaking your mind. G-d know, I am shy and retiring and never, no never, say what's on my mind ... luvya ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: faswilli2
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:44 PM

guessI'm another lurker. This is my first time too. I have been a semi regular at the Kerrville Folk Festival the last few years and have heard that Rod Kennedy will no longer be producing it. the rights have been sold. I find it odd that some artist acquaintances have told me they are booked for this year but the website has not been updated nor the schedules publlished. Does anyone know what is going out there in kville?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: harpgirl
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:45 PM

moonchild...I just don't see the offensiveness of the term "lurkers" I think it is apt and carries no implied disdain....

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: harpgirl
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 09:49 PM

lurkaholics????

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: faswilli2 (Emerson)
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 10:00 PM

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: faswilli2 (Emerson)
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 10:01 PM

How about "lurkverts"

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 10:28 PM

How about renaming it 'silent participant'

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: vikinglass
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 10:29 PM

I officially jumped off the "lurker" train yesterday when I started my first thread......chiggers....... Danlbear, it looks like us "lurkers" are many. I feel privileged to have a special label and am in no way offended by the term "lurkvert", "lurkaholic", etc...and to anyone who is easily offended, well, take a dose of ex-lax and re-lax.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: MMario
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 10:34 PM

"lurker" DOES indeed have negative connotations OUTSIDE of the electronic community....WITHIN a forum such as this, it is the equivilant of "interested party" or "serious observer"

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 11:09 PM

As a non-lurker, more of a chain jerker...Welcome to the 'Cat to all. I read threads for about a month before I posted over a year ago. Also go back and check into old threads using names you see...kinda' gave me a feel for the place. Glad you're all here!

AND JAMES JIM -- Where are you in Kentucky?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 11:27 PM

Sorry, harpgirl, but the word "lurk" is offensive. The definition(s), according to Mr. Webster, are as follows:

1.To lie in wait, as in ambush. 2.To move furtively; sneak.

"Observer" would be the more appropriate word as it applies to those new to the mudcat, who may be intimidated, at first.

moonchild

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: InOBU
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 11:37 PM

Hey Danlbear:
Speaking of the Edmund Fitz. Did you see the report about the finding of the wreck, where the daughter of the helmsman, who most likely died at his post, had the divers place his favorite beer on the bridge console? I was more than touched.
From one of the loadmouths
Larry

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Jan 00 - 11:43 PM

I saw that one...lot of tragic stories and ironies about the Fitz. I love Great Lakes shipwreck stories...Some really fine tales of personal heroism and cowardice...not too mention insanity. But lots of tearjerkers too.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: DonMeixner
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 12:07 AM

Dan,

See the way this thread has deteriorated into puns and bad jokes? We ain't all that creative. Just repetative. Welcome to the fold, when we aren't feeling self righteous, very nearly everyone of us is good folks to hang about with.

Don.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 12:51 AM

Fulurum,

Could you post the rest of that Tom Chapin - Si Kahn song?

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: JamesJim
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 12:55 AM

Hey catspaw! I'm in Louisville. Been singing and playing for a lot of years. Where do you live?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: paddymac
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 01:07 AM

Moonchild's dictionary research notwithstanding, I share harpgirl's sentiment that "lurk" is not a pejorative term in the context of the 'cat. Besides, what could be more euphonious and apt than "lurk 'n learn"?

John in B and McG in H - Thank you for your kind words.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Helen
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 01:38 AM

Hey Banjo Bonnie,

Instead of "silent participant", how about "innocent bystander"?

*BG* while ducking & weaving out of the way of decaying vegetable missiles.

Helen

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Danlbear
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 08:07 AM

I think I prefer Banjo Bonnies definition of a lurker.

Dan

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: harpgirl
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 08:26 AM

...ah moonchild....in the 21st century Webster's number three will be:

3. in the electronic community, to participate silently, to evaluate an electronic forum before participating, to withdraw from active participation....ad infinitem...

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 08:35 AM

Ah my dear Spaw
When I was but a tadpole, my favorite book ws Shipwrecks of the Laks, by Dana Thomas Bowen 1952 Lakeside Printing Co. , Cleveland, Ohio. Lots of great storries and photographs. If you can find it in the library, or Amazon or some rare book cite, you will have a great time with it. Now, some four decades after I found it on the shelf of my fathers library, it still is nesstled among the law and anthropology books about my desk.
REMEMBER THE SEVONA< PRETORIA< IOSCO< & OLIVE JEANETTE!
all lost Sept. 1905 in the same storm on Lake Superior.
If it had a tune you could sing it!
Larry

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:16 PM

My suggestion of "Angel" for Lurker was in fact a serious one - in spite of the tread/thread pun (and the words are in fact pronounced exactly the same way in many parts of the world).

But I like the suggestion that people reading the thread without adding contributions are benevolent spirits keeping in the background until they feel it is time to make a positive contribution - sort of Guardian Angels. Whereas lurker has a nasty sound to it.The Lurker in the Dark Alley. Not a nice thought at all.

I am sure that the use of the term lurker does in fact encourage people to be less friendly to people making a post for the first time. Not so much in the Mudcat, but elsewhere. If you think of strangers as lurkers it's not surprising you get nervous when they suddenly reveal themselves.

Anyway, I think that Angel is a word I'm might try to use instead. As Saint Paul put it: "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, : for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." Which sounds much more agreeable.

And I suppose people who post messages anonymously might qualify as Fallen Angels. Makes sense.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: MMario
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:33 PM

I agree with your rationale, but aware also that if the MudCat adopts this as practice:

1) we will need to re-educate any experienced user who joins the forum, as "lurker" is accepted usage outside of the 'cat

2) we SHOULD post the agreed upon usage to a (readily available) FAQ

3) make sure BEFORE "we" try to change usage here that "Angel" does not offend as many as does "lurker"

my thoughts, such as they are

MMario

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 02:39 PM

Golly! I had never thought of the term lurker as being anything but a joke. How about "visitor" ?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: MMario
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 03:40 PM

Bert - you mean one of those lizard-aliens disguised as people who steal Earth's water and kidnap our children for hors-deuves?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: bbelle
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 03:42 PM

Why do they have to be called anything? Why must everything have a label or monitor attached? Why can't they just be left to observe until they have something they want to say. We're making far too much of this ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Áine
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 03:46 PM

IT'S A COOKBOOK! IT'S A COOKBOOK!

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: MMario
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 03:59 PM

Áine - * insert dumbfounded speechless, but appreciative look here*

MMario

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:03 PM

If someone chooses to participate in the Mudcat but not to post I believe they are doing more than observing.
Who knows how a Thread or posting affects the 'Silent participant'. The reading of a posting can inspire a person to make positive changes for themselves and others.
Posting is one aspect of the Mudcat.

BB

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:24 PM

I was thinking more of the Cornish usage. They use the word "visitor" for "tourist". Well thinking about it, perhaps that's not too different from Mmario's usage either.

Moon baby, I was kind of agreeing with you. You are right, the word "lurker" is nasty, and people who are new to the web may not know that it is in common use. I don't think it's too big a deal, but should we talk about these folk, we don't want to use language that is going to scare them away. Of course it COMPLETELY spoils my verse to The Mudcat Tavern

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:35 PM

After all this discussion about lurkers and angels I hate to seem mundane and bland but how about 'reader'. A fairly non-threatening word describing the actions of someone who reads but doesn't post.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:42 PM

Hi - the term "lurker" has been used for years all over the Internet, with no offense intended, to indicate a "silent observer." I'm sure the use of the term started out as a joke, but this particular usage has become common. Kind of like the folk process, ya know. I suppose you could complain that it's not the "official" meaning of the word; but it's the "actual" meaning of the word within the context of the Internet. Instead of taking offense at the term or trying to change it, why not just enjoy the humor that started this usage in the first place?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:54 PM

Why simply enjoy it when you can have so much more fun talking about it?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 04:59 PM

For what it's worth, I am antoher who see's no harm in the term "lurker" and it's usage in terms of the internet is well understood and is in no way offensive.

There is nothing wrong in lurking and at times, I wish I did more lurking and less posting but my nature is such that I have to say something...

Jon

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:08 PM

I also see no harm in the term but its fun to come up with alternatives. I guess I'm not the only one who sometimes can't help posting. Do they have any local P.A. Posters Anonymous group?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:09 PM

Ever read any HP Lovecraft? The Lurker at the Threshold was one of his creepiest.

LEJ (Fool, not Angel)

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:10 PM

Oh Hey SPAW! All of Bowens Great Lakes Books are available on one of the old book finding cites, I think I saw them on Bibliofind or Bookfinder. I think you would get a kick out of them.
All the best
Larry

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Midchuck
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:15 PM

"Lurker" seems to have become an accepted term throughout the net, with no negative connotation when used in that sense. I think if you tried to use another term, you'd just confuse new people even more than I'm confused already.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 06:20 PM

Some philosophy from a rum soaked illiterate fellah; who when he left school to go to sea at 16, thought that Logarithms was a birth control method for trees; and that Calculus grew on yer teeth if you didn't brush em.

Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open a thread and confirm it. Or,A closed mouth gathers no feet.

But for the nice people who post here, are not afraid of the Human condition; and the timid ones who test the waters prudently before stepping in, Welcome, I for one enjoy you all. Cheers. Dave

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: bbelle
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 11:40 PM

Well, folkies .... I reckon I'm old fashioned. I have a great love of the spoken word and it's definitions. I've never been comfortable changing words into lingo or slang that defy their definition and have not adopted internet slang as part of my vocabulary. So ... I will not use the word lurk as a positive but would encourage y'all to use whatever words you have adopted for your personal vocabulary. I guess that makes me unhip ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: ddw
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 12:19 AM

Don't feel bad, Moonchild — I was delighted to see somebody else who likes to use words as intended, but I'm afraid you and I are being overrun by the whole new world of computerspeak or slang or whatever you want to call it.

I even fall into the trap myself sometimes. I think I used a form of "lurk" a few weeks ago when I posted a "Glad your lurking days are over" not when I recognized the name of a guy I had met just a few days earlier and he told me he'd been reading but not posting for about a year. I liked the guy, so there was certainly no intent to be offensive when I wrote that; it was just the word I'd heard used for people who only read in forums.

But keep up the good fight. People have a hard enough time understanding each other even when the right words are used. I shudder at what might happen if we got too free with definitions. I fight constantly with reporters who think there's no difference between a steamshovel and a backhoe, an armored personnel carrier and a tank (well, they both have guns, don't they?) or an Airbus A300 and a jumbo jet. My answer is, when you can convince me that a cow ran out from under a porch and bit the letter carrier, then I'll believe it's not important to call things by their correct names.

I guess the language has to grow somehow, but there are limits.

Don't, for instance, tell me we just entered the third millennium. I've fought a losing battle in the newsroom for months over that one and — as far as I know — have never once let it slip through in any copy I've handled.

But back to lurker; connotations shift and dictionaries don't actually tell you what a word means. They only tell you what most people take the word to mean.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: paddymac
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 01:01 AM

Gee, just when I was beginning to think we were going to actually have a chat without bringing sex into the discussion, Sophoclese went and snuk it in the back door with the innocent-seeming line "Why simply enjoy it when you can have so much more fun talking about it?" Now if that aint mudcat fer sex, what is? UH-OH. Probably shouldn't open that door. *BG*

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Danlbear
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 10:11 AM

What was the question again??

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:29 AM

Danlbear old pal:
The question? To post or not, to post, that is the question, weither it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of ourtragious posts,... oh that the citemaster had not fixed his cannon against self agrandizement... or something like that...
Good to see ya getting a little talkative, oh once silent on looker!
Larry

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 03:59 PM

I still reckon the term lurker was probably intended as unfriendly by the nettlesome person who first came up with it in this context. The folk process changes meanings, and tradition should be recognised. But I'd like to see Mudcat coming up with the occcasional; new traditions, recognising that this is a friendlier place than a lot of the net, by and large.

"Listener" would be another good term.Got a few spooky overtones, thanks to Waltwer de la Mare's poem:

"Only a host of phantom listeners
that dwelt in the lone house then

Stood listening in the quiet of the moonlight...

For the rest of it visit this site with some good poems, which I found just, which saves me from having to write the poem out in full

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:06 PM

And I've just checked out that site some more - it's from some fella in Co Wexford going under the name of Melmoth, and it's got some great stuff, including splashing water sound effects at one point. Really worth visiting.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: paddymac
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:02 PM

Aine - I remember the scene, at the end of the movie as they're boarding the space ship - but damned if I can recall the name of the film. It's old, B&W, probably late '40s or so.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:09 PM

Why not call them "Gizhygians?" Is THAT offensive to anyone?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:19 PM

Spaw! You can't honestly be thinking of calling them THAT! OH gods and stars above! Just seeing it on the screen and I've had to pour myself a stiff drink to get over the shock. Clearly you've lived an extremely sheltered life and never met the off-spring of a Betelgeusian Inflating Rabbit-Hawk and an Alpha Centauri Polymorphing Shawms Player. Pray you never even THINK of that word if you do. Oh gods where's that drink?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:26 PM

We of the Gizhygian Antidefimation league deplore the implication that a Gizhygian is a non-participant member of any society. Gizhygia, though small and non-agressive, was the birth place of such inspired inovations as the Q-tip and those little kitchy things you hand on the end of light pulling strings. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know, some of your best friends are Gizhygians... Sheesh!
Larry

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:32 PM

Aine and Paddymac - Wasn't that line "It's a cookbook" from The Twilight Zone or Outer Limits?? I seem to remember it was a TV show - not a film. My flair for trivia fades after 10:30 CST. That could be a whole other thread - which was better - The Twilight Zone or Outer Limits?? For my money it was TZ - no contest.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:34 PM

THAT'S ENOUGH!!!!!!!AAARRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!

I AM REALLY PROSTETNIC VOGON CATSASS AND I AM ABOUT TO READ YOU SOME POETRY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: vikinglass
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:35 PM

Dave (the ancient mariner), I like your way of thinkin'....along with the suggestion of sophoclese and a scotch and water, a real hoot could be had reading and posting. CHEERS to all those folks overestimating their importance in the world and the same to mudcat lurkers( both present and former).

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:36 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:37 PM

Hmmm. That came out a little differently than intended. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Night Owl
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:12 AM

sophocleese...is "oh gods and stars above" considered foul language in your family???? My great grandmother's favorite curse phrase was "ye gods and little fishes". Just curious. (Grandmother's favorite...."my stars and garters".)

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:03 AM

I agree with MC. Lurker suggest someone of nefarious purpose hanging out in the bushes waiting to jump out and grab whomever.

How about Hoverfolk, since they kind of hover around?

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:17 AM

Many words have been redefined or taken on new meanins. Some for the better, some for the worse. I feel quite comfortable with the internet meaning of the word lurker and don't see the need for change... thinking of changes the other way, wouldn't it be nice if we could all be gay?

Jon

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:28 AM

I've heard the term "lurker" used on the internet to mean someone who reads messages but doesn't post, since I've been on it. If we have people coming in from other places on the net, they may use the term without the slightest idea someone may take offense. The thing with nefariousness on the internet is the real nasties are never the quiet "lurkers."

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Áine
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:04 AM

Hey Y'all! Sorry it took me so long to get back here, but my computer has expired and I have to share the hubby's with everyone else is the house.

To clear up my 'It's a cookbook!' reference above -- It's a line from the Twilight Zone episode entitled 'To Serve Man,' which was taken from a short story of the same name. I'm sorry that I can't remember the author's name.

The story line is this: Aliens come down to Earth and go around with this book entitled 'To Serve Man,' fixing all of mankind's problems like famine, hunger, war, etc. Everyone thinks this 'visitors' are wonderful. Only there's one fella who doesn't trust them and their little reference manual. At the end of the story, he finds out that the book is not about how to save mankind, but how to fatten them up for the alien buffet. It's one of my favorite Twilight Zone shows.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:09 AM

Well all that aside Aine, what about GHYSIGIAN?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: paddymac
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 09:21 AM

Aine - Thanks for clearing my confusion as to source of the line.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: bbelle
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:25 PM

Jon ... if you are playing games and using the word gay in it's original definition, as in being lighthearted, I can see your drift ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: annamill
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:06 PM

Aine, this is one of my very favorite Twilite Zone episodes. The man who discovers the name of the book "To Serve Man" was a decoder and was able to decode the title, but not the text. He had a young woman assistant that worked with him. They worked on for some time when it became the man's turn to take a much desired trip to their friends, the Aliens, planet. As he was boarding the ship, up runs the girl screaming, "John, John, (It may not have been John), don't go!! The book, the book!! It's a cook book!! Gives me chills everytime I think of it.

I like "Angel". Lurking suggests to me, to me now, something subversive..oooooooo. Old school too, I guess.

Welcome, Danlbear!

Love, annap

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Áine
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:16 PM

Thanks annap! It's been a long time since I've seen the episode, but it has to be one of my top five favourites!

Of course and wouldn't ya know -- It would be a WOMAN that would be able to save the Earth!!! There's more grist for the mill on the 'Sexism in Threads' thread (hehehe).

'It's A Cookbook!' would be a great title for a parody song, don't ya think? Let's see,

They came from the skies,
And to everyone's eyes
They seemed to come in peace
'Tho underneath their covers
Were true 'mankind' lovers
Preferring 'us' above others

Can't think of tune to fit -- anybody got a good idea??

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 04:27 PM

The original "cookbook" story was by damon knight, who always, like e.e. cummings, insisted that his name be written in lowercase. I'll respect that cause I really think it was a great story, one that cried out for a TV treatment, and they did a wonderful job.

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 04:28 PM

Moonchild, to confirm, I was reffering to the origanal definition of gay.

Jon

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:36 PM

start with the whites of two eggs.....

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:48 PM

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to insist on some onions and garlic

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:49 PM

This seems to fit here. Was sent to me by another Mudcatter. Don't know who the author is. WARNING: Not for the faint at heart.

Imagine if you will... the leader of the alien's fifth invader force speaking to the commander in chief... "They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"Meat. They're made out of meat."
"Meat?"
"There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."
"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars."
"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."
"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."
"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."
"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."
"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat."
"Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."
"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?"
"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."
"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."
"No brain?"
Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat!"
"So... what does the thinking?"
"You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat."
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?"
"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."
"Finally, Yes. They are indeed made out meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."
"So what does the meat have in mind?"
"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual."
"We're supposed to talk to meat?"
"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing."
"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."
"I thought you just told me they used radio."
"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."
"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"
"Officially or unofficially?"
"Both."
"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."
"I was hoping you would say that."
"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"
"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say?" `Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"
"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."
"So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe."
"That's it."
"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they won't remember?"
"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."
"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."
"And we can mark this sector unoccupied." ,br>"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"
"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic >rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."
"They always come around."
"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone."

Subject: RE: Creative group
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:55 PM

I got that too Katmyluv and I just cracked up!!

Spaw