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BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt

The Sandman 09 Apr 20 - 01:49 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Apr 20 - 01:29 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Apr 20 - 01:09 PM
Backwoodsman 09 Apr 20 - 01:04 PM
Iains 09 Apr 20 - 12:38 PM
Workingtonman 09 Apr 20 - 11:45 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Apr 20 - 10:45 AM
Iains 09 Apr 20 - 09:57 AM
Workingtonman 09 Apr 20 - 06:56 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Apr 20 - 06:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Apr 20 - 06:31 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Apr 20 - 04:10 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Apr 20 - 03:59 AM
Iains 09 Apr 20 - 03:33 AM
DMcG 09 Apr 20 - 03:20 AM
Iains 09 Apr 20 - 02:56 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Apr 20 - 02:53 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Apr 20 - 02:52 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Apr 20 - 09:56 PM
Nigel Parsons 08 Apr 20 - 09:06 PM
punkfolkrocker 07 Apr 20 - 03:30 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Apr 20 - 01:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Apr 20 - 12:02 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Apr 20 - 08:01 AM
Rain Dog 07 Apr 20 - 05:41 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 20 - 04:49 AM
Workingtonman 07 Apr 20 - 04:49 AM
The Sandman 07 Apr 20 - 04:35 AM
Iains 07 Apr 20 - 04:30 AM
DMcG 07 Apr 20 - 04:21 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Apr 20 - 03:27 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Apr 20 - 05:57 PM
Bonzo3legs 06 Apr 20 - 05:24 PM
DMcG 06 Apr 20 - 05:18 PM
Donuel 06 Apr 20 - 05:16 PM
Workingtonman 06 Apr 20 - 04:23 PM
Raggytash 06 Apr 20 - 04:14 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Apr 20 - 04:03 PM
Workingtonman 06 Apr 20 - 03:45 PM
punkfolkrocker 06 Apr 20 - 03:42 PM
Donuel 06 Apr 20 - 03:41 PM
Backwoodsman 06 Apr 20 - 03:32 PM
Donuel 06 Apr 20 - 03:24 PM
Iains 06 Apr 20 - 03:21 PM
punkfolkrocker 06 Apr 20 - 12:47 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 06 Apr 20 - 12:23 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 20 - 12:16 PM
punkfolkrocker 06 Apr 20 - 11:33 AM
Jim Carroll 06 Apr 20 - 11:12 AM
DMcG 06 Apr 20 - 10:24 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:49 PM

yes a relative mine will now be out of a job


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:29 PM

Just seen that Debenhams has collapsed in Ireland - the shape of things to come
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:09 PM

ring a ring a tories

a pocket full of excuses

an issue, an issue, they all look down...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 01:04 PM

I’ve learned the art of issue-avoidance from you, Nigs, and sundry other Rightys.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 12:38 PM

BWM I notice you do not dispute the facts though!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Workingtonman
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 11:45 AM

i don't think anyone is really that bothered about brexit just now - it just seems weird that we spent such a long time bitching about it. i always felt the important thing was to get rid of the tories as they were increasingly not bothered about looking after the interests of ordinary citizens - same is true today but of course we are now facing far more important questions


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 10:45 AM

‘Exercutive’?
Executive.

‘Finnancial’?
Financial.

‘Independant’?
Independent.

‘Seperate’?
Separate.

There appears to be something of a dearth of that ‘important attention to detail’ you were proudly crowing about being so careful over recently.

Apologies to everyone else for lowering my standards and lapsing into Nigelism. But no apologies to Iains, of course. ;-) ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 09:57 AM

Europe is made up of separate and totally independent states - talking about "Europe having an ambition" is bizarre to say the least - a creature with a single aim
Utter nonsense


EU law    applies to all   member   states
EU   legislation applies to all member states
A common currencty applies to   all member states, apart    from those   sensible enough   to opt out.
The EU has:
Exercutive
Legislative
Judicial
Finnancial
control over its member states.

To try to say the states are independant and seperate is risible.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Workingtonman
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 06:56 AM

a friend of ours died a couple of weeks ago. apparently they were not able to put him on a ventilator as if they had he would not have been able to come off it. it's not the best thing for everyone apparently and he died very quickly, despite being a very fit and lively man (though he was 81)

seems to me there are 2 narratives going on at the moment - while the overwhelming majority of folk are saying that we must use this shock to make fundamental changes to the way we do things (particularly with respect to public services) However, there is still a refusal to accept this idea with our government who are cracking on with HS2, bonus and shareholders payouts, Brexit - and pay rises for MPs - as if they are assuming they can just carry on after a few weeks while maintaining the systems and privileges they and their friends currently enjoy.

it won't be long before the battle resumes between tories and the forelock-tuggers and more progressive, equality-based people will be resumed. this time it will be critical as the future direction of our countries will be at stake. way more important than the old tory/labour squabbling.

we live in interesting times eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 06:37 AM

MPs given an extra £10,000 to work from home

I am gobsmacked but no longer surprised at the contempt that this lot treat others with.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 06:31 AM

Nigel. Which part of "A very moving personal view" did you have problems with? It was my opening statement. Nowhere do I say it is anything other than that. It does add to the discussion as it reflects the depth of feeling people have.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 04:10 AM

So, Nigel, you're seriously suggesting that I shouldn't bet my life that a ventilator was/is instantly available for Boris should the need arise...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:59 AM

Europe is made up of separate and totally independent states - talking about "Europe having an ambition" is bizarre to say the least - a creature with a single aim
Utter nonsense
There has been no move to federate - it may well be the wish of some, but until the members discuss and propose the idea, that's all it will ever be
This is one of the big lies that brought about this insane leap in the dark
On the other hand, if Britain wishes to trade with countries like America (in particular) they will only be allowed to do so if they are able to stay in Trump the Dump's good books - anybody wish to dispute that !!!
That all free nations should ne so "independent'
"Birthright and mess of pottage" springs to mind
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:33 AM

The EU has the clearly stated ambbition of achieving federalisation. One of the many reasons for leaving and regaining sovereignty. Many here denied that, Glad   to see reality has finally penetrated for some. If   the desire is to centralise then come the crisis leadership is expected. Abject failure is all I see, even to the extent of hijacking each others safety gear. We are lucky we have left, the subsequent bills will be horrendous


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:20 AM

I do find it a bit odd that some Brexit supporters are saying the EU is failing because it is not federal enough. In the past many of them were saying that the problem with the EU is that it had ambitions to become federal, a super-state, a United States of Europe. That recognises that at the moment it is not there yet. However, they are saying that the EU is failing because it cannot override the wishes of the individual countries that it is composed of. That is, its failure is that it is not the thing they did not want it to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:56 AM

Meawhile    we   have left the EU and   the countdown continues until   the end of December, unless of course   we   all   get   fed up with the   disfunctional EU   and simply leave. The behaviour of the    EU over   covid-19 indicates   the union is a basket case. If    it    cannot   deal with a   virus,   what   hope for the   coming   depression? Is southern europe   to be abandonned again?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:53 AM

"improve Britain's performance" (memo to self - don't post till ou wake up)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:52 AM

"So not necessarily reliable."
By that reckoning, nor is anything here of course - just an opinion of a bunch of proles
You have a habit of dodging awkward points in this manner Nigel
Good job the great and the good have the media to get over the information they need us to have eh ?
RThey don't even have to listen to those on the virus-front when they constantly whine about not having enough protective equipment - as for those constantly banging on about losing relatives....
Most of what Dave put up is not only valid, it's self evident
Britain has been far behind Ireland from the beginning, our - China has reached a "no deaths today" situation
Somebody is doing things right and others aren't - bemoanit the fate of our suffering Prime Minister while at the same time covering up his cock-ups isn't exactly going to perfom Britain's performance
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Apr 20 - 09:56 PM

There was a German govt in the early to mid 1940s
which relied on loyal pedantic jobsworth book-keepers...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Apr 20 - 09:06 PM

Dave The Gnome:
I won't replay the whole of your post, as it was just a copy of what someone else said on Facebook. So not necessarily reliable. Do you know the meaning of the word 'Hearsay'?
However, just to cover one paragraph:
My brother, sadly, wasn't lucky.
Jas, 54, died of Covid-19 in Nottingham's Queens Medical Centre a week last Saturday night. Unlike the Prime Minister there was no ventilator for Jas.


Unless the news has moved on, it was confirmed that Boris hadn't had a ventilator either. But whoever wrote it on Facebook shouldn't let the facts interrupt a good rant.

Am I belittling the death of this unknown person's brother? NO!.
I am pointing out that unattributed rants add nothing to the conversation. They may still get repeated ad nauseum without anyone confirming whether or not they include any truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:30 PM

Far better people die everyday,
and won't ever get honoured with grand memorial plaques and statues...

I have two simple categories of folks I don't like..

a] those seriously evil bastards who need to be killed..

b] those folks I'd never wish death upon, but am indifferent if we do lose them...


Boris does not fit neatly into either category...

I'll include him in

c] guilty pleasures..
right-wing comedians I'm not supposed to find amusing, but sometimes do,
and might miss a bit when they do eventually shuffle off...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 01:10 PM

That is a superb characterisation of his character and his disreputable public life. But I still fully want him to get well. I feel deprived of the right to hate his bloody guts. But that isn't why I want him to get better.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 12:02 PM

A very moving personal view from someone on Facebook

Boris Johnson.

A man who has lived his entire life recklessly, selfishly, irresponsibly; without any regard for the consequences. Because he's never needed to. His enormous privilege has protected him from any repercussions.

He is a proven pathological liar, swaggering through the years with no empathy or concern for anyone but himself. Indeed, recently bragging about shaking hands with Corona virus patients. As if it was just another laugh; a jape; just another moment in a life less honourable.

There is a grim irony to him finally, in this manner, being confronted by the consequences of his behaviour. Even he can't lie & bluster his way out of this mess.

One can only hope that the Prime Minister, as he languishes in intensive care, courtesy of the NHS that he and his party have done so much to destroy, deeply regrets the cheering & jeering doled out to nurses by he and his colleagues; when they voted down a payrise for those heroes. If he's lucky he'll now be finding out exactly how valuable these people are.

My brother, sadly, wasn't lucky.
Jas, 54, died of Covid-19 in Nottingham's Queens Medical Centre a week last Saturday night. Unlike the Prime Minister there was no ventilator for Jas.
'Operation: Last Gasp', right, Prime Minister?

I then stood on an empty street, shouting to be heard over the wind, no privacy, no dignity, to tell an old man on a doorstep his child had died. The most indescribably awful duty I've ever had to carry out.

There will, of course, be those idiots, those hypocrites, those bootlickers, who will condemn me for 'politicising' both my own loss & Boris Johnson's condition. They can't grasp that politicians making political decisions and political choices impact people's lives. And sometimes end them. As Jas found out.

Do I wish Johnson dead? No. Do I wish dead the selfish, the greedy and the stupid who voted for him and still, even now, support him? Those who were perfectly happy to ignore the systematic destruction of the NHS while they were all right Jack? Again, no.

My sympathy, however, remains with the terrified & heartbroken victims of this crisis. The appalling & callous mishandling of which is unavoidably the responsibility of Boris Johnson.

It would be nice to think that lessons will be learned; that, individually and collectively, we will discover our self-respect and understand that governments only ever treat us the way we allow; that, when this is over, an enormous reorganisation of the nation’s priorities will be undertaken, by both the politicians and the electorate; that, at last, people will concern themselves with the value of others and much less with the cost of things.

If Boris Johnson, in any way, might be that catalyst then he will have done at least one noble thing in his life.

My breath, however, remains unheld.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 08:01 AM

I'm pretty sure you have quoted that before, Rain Dog. What's your point?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 05:41 AM

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

From Animal Farm by George Orwell.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:49 AM

"Seems to me if someone does not have a good word to say about Boris it would be better they said nothing at all"
A pretty obvious way of dodging responsibility for your own behaviour Iains
Who's to blame you ?
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Workingtonman
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:49 AM

seems to me that if if anyone has a bad word to say about anyone and wishes to do it repeatedly, offensively and with no care, self-awarenessunderstanding or even the suggestion of any basic sympathy (or humour) at least they will be allowed to do so on mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:35 AM

i do not like johnson however i hope he does not die


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:30 AM

Seems to me if someone does not have a good word to say about Boris it would be better they said nothing at all. It really shows up what sort of person they really are.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:21 AM

The Financial Times, 30 March 2020

        Civil service reform has been a key objective of the Johnson government — particularly for the prime minister’s chief adviser Dominic Cummings, who believes Whitehall is responsible for many policy failures

Micheal Gove, 7 April 2020:

The work of government goes on, we have a superb civil service and they have ensured that the machinery is there for decisions to be made by ministers, by medical and scientific experts, and for those decisions to be followed through in a way which enables us to help those on frontline.

===

A week is a long time in politics, exhibit 1.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:27 AM

Of course people are right about not wishing ill on people, but unfortunate there are so many people we have to worry about at present that we all mentally categories them
We made friends among the Traveller families who have remain living in the appalling conditions they were forced to in normal times - I wonder all the time how they are getting on
A close friend in London was a Kurdish refugee living in an over-occupied tower block in North West London - I worry how Ali's family is getting on all the time
Some of my family live in areas poorly served by hospitals at the best of times and cannot afford private attention
That list is endless
Many of the people on it live as they do because of the system either forced or inveigled on us by people like Johnson so, with the best will in the world, while I don't wish anybody ill, he comes pretty low on my 'Get well soon card' list and I have no intention shedding crocodile tears for his recovery - he'll have to wait in the queue like everybody else has to
I'd be fascinated to see how the "let them sleep in the park" crowd would have reacted if it had been Corbyn or the one they keep comparing with a hippo had fallen ill - but that's probably my evil sense of humour
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:57 PM

Dominic Raab was clearly distressed this evening and, I thought, he showed his real unspun self. A rare sight in UK politics. I've got my very vulnerable mum to worry about and I personally knew a bloke who's just died. When push comes to shove we're all human beings and we're all vulnerable. Bad times. :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:24 PM

My wife was in the ICU at ST Georges Tooting 4 years ago after brain surgery - they do know what they are doing.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:18 PM

No one, I hope, would wish this on anyone at all. Johnson is under the management to one of the most experienced ICU in the country, so his chances are a high as we can make them.   We can but hope it goes well, though it may take a good few days before we know.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:16 PM

I would, exclusively for Donald Trump. Donald is deliberately evil while Boris is a natural goofball and deserves compassion.
Wishes don't work anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Workingtonman
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:23 PM

i would be more than happy if i never saw boris johnson again but would not wish ill health or worse on anyone. he is one of many people having a terrible time and lets hope for better news for everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:14 PM

I too add my wishes that Boris Johnson makes a full and complete recovery from this virus.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:03 PM

This is terrible news. Sod the politics. I hate you, Boris, but just get well please. PLEASE!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Workingtonman
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:45 PM

ed miliband back on the front bench......boris johnson in intensive care. coincidence......?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:42 PM

At this point I must restrain my dark sense of humour...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:41 PM

We don't have intensive care


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:32 PM

We don’t have a Prez.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:24 PM

Your prez is in intensive care.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:21 PM

At 7pm Boris moved into intensive care.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:47 PM

Walky - boris is always wearing a mask...


Jim - beware of boris's hospital bed if the curtains are drawn all around it...

"Carry on Nurse" and it's raunchier later 1960s sequel remade for the corona crisis...

"ooooh mr Johnson, you are a one.. giggle.. squeal.. it's more than your temperature that's rising...!!!"

cue comical swanee slide whistle musical sting...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:23 PM

Hopefully, somewhat clumsy Boris Johnson has not passed Covid_19 to anyone but, it seems to me, far less likely if he had worn a mask - as I've been suggesting for weeks, having observed those in nations containing this virus relatively well doing so.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:16 PM

"My hunches"
Or maybe he's faking it for a sympathy shag - we've all tried it :-)
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 11:33 AM

My hunches are either gove got at boris
in some dastardly Agatha Cristie villain like way;
or boris got bored confined up in his pigeon loft
and did something really stupid and hazardous to himself...???

Oranges and binbags comes to mind as a particular tory solitary peccadillo...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 11:12 AM

Ir seems that New Russia is out to cause mischief by spreading misinformation
I can't see much reason for the hospital spokesman lying - a prime Minister on a ventilator is good publicity for a Government which appears fairly short of anything else going for it
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 10:24 AM

What is the coyness about whether Johnson has or has not had oxygen? I know there is a huge reluctance to say any politician may be frail for a while, but I doubt if it can be hidden long term either way, so why not just admit it or deny it?


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