BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 03:20 AM

I do find it a bit odd that some Brexit supporters are saying the EU is failing because it is not federal enough. In the past many of them were saying that the problem with the EU is that it had ambitions to become federal, a super-state, a United States of Europe. That recognises that at the moment it is not there yet. However, they are saying that the EU is failing because it cannot override the wishes of the individual countries that it is composed of. That is, its failure is that it is not the thing they did not want it to be.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:56 AM

Meawhile    we   have left the EU and   the countdown continues until   the end of December, unless of course   we   all   get   fed up with the   disfunctional EU   and simply leave. The behaviour of the    EU over   covid-19 indicates   the union is a basket case. If    it    cannot   deal with a   virus,   what   hope for the   coming   depression? Is southern europe   to be abandonned again?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:53 AM

"improve Britain's performance" (memo to self - don't post till ou wake up)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:52 AM

"So not necessarily reliable."
By that reckoning, nor is anything here of course - just an opinion of a bunch of proles
You have a habit of dodging awkward points in this manner Nigel
Good job the great and the good have the media to get over the information they need us to have eh ?
RThey don't even have to listen to those on the virus-front when they constantly whine about not having enough protective equipment - as for those constantly banging on about losing relatives....
Most of what Dave put up is not only valid, it's self evident
Britain has been far behind Ireland from the beginning, our - China has reached a "no deaths today" situation
Somebody is doing things right and others aren't - bemoanit the fate of our suffering Prime Minister while at the same time covering up his cock-ups isn't exactly going to perfom Britain's performance
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Apr 20 - 09:56 PM

There was a German govt in the early to mid 1940s
which relied on loyal pedantic jobsworth book-keepers...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Apr 20 - 09:06 PM

Dave The Gnome:
I won't replay the whole of your post, as it was just a copy of what someone else said on Facebook. So not necessarily reliable. Do you know the meaning of the word 'Hearsay'?
However, just to cover one paragraph:
My brother, sadly, wasn't lucky.
Jas, 54, died of Covid-19 in Nottingham's Queens Medical Centre a week last Saturday night. Unlike the Prime Minister there was no ventilator for Jas.

Unless the news has moved on, it was confirmed that Boris hadn't had a ventilator either. But whoever wrote it on Facebook shouldn't let the facts interrupt a good rant.

Am I belittling the death of this unknown person's brother? NO!.
I am pointing out that unattributed rants add nothing to the conversation. They may still get repeated ad nauseum without anyone confirming whether or not they include any truth.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:30 PM

Far better people die everyday,
and won't ever get honoured with grand memorial plaques and statues...

I have two simple categories of folks I don't like..

a] those seriously evil bastards who need to be killed..

b] those folks I'd never wish death upon, but am indifferent if we do lose them...


Boris does not fit neatly into either category...

I'll include him in

c] guilty pleasures..
right-wing comedians I'm not supposed to find amusing, but sometimes do,
and might miss a bit when they do eventually shuffle off...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 01:10 PM

That is a superb characterisation of his character and his disreputable public life. But I still fully want him to get well. I feel deprived of the right to hate his bloody guts. But that isn't why I want him to get better.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 12:02 PM

A very moving personal view from someone on Facebook

Boris Johnson.

A man who has lived his entire life recklessly, selfishly, irresponsibly; without any regard for the consequences. Because he's never needed to. His enormous privilege has protected him from any repercussions.

He is a proven pathological liar, swaggering through the years with no empathy or concern for anyone but himself. Indeed, recently bragging about shaking hands with Corona virus patients. As if it was just another laugh; a jape; just another moment in a life less honourable.

There is a grim irony to him finally, in this manner, being confronted by the consequences of his behaviour. Even he can't lie & bluster his way out of this mess.

One can only hope that the Prime Minister, as he languishes in intensive care, courtesy of the NHS that he and his party have done so much to destroy, deeply regrets the cheering & jeering doled out to nurses by he and his colleagues; when they voted down a payrise for those heroes. If he's lucky he'll now be finding out exactly how valuable these people are.

My brother, sadly, wasn't lucky.
Jas, 54, died of Covid-19 in Nottingham's Queens Medical Centre a week last Saturday night. Unlike the Prime Minister there was no ventilator for Jas.
'Operation: Last Gasp', right, Prime Minister?

I then stood on an empty street, shouting to be heard over the wind, no privacy, no dignity, to tell an old man on a doorstep his child had died. The most indescribably awful duty I've ever had to carry out.

There will, of course, be those idiots, those hypocrites, those bootlickers, who will condemn me for 'politicising' both my own loss & Boris Johnson's condition. They can't grasp that politicians making political decisions and political choices impact people's lives. And sometimes end them. As Jas found out.

Do I wish Johnson dead? No. Do I wish dead the selfish, the greedy and the stupid who voted for him and still, even now, support him? Those who were perfectly happy to ignore the systematic destruction of the NHS while they were all right Jack? Again, no.

My sympathy, however, remains with the terrified & heartbroken victims of this crisis. The appalling & callous mishandling of which is unavoidably the responsibility of Boris Johnson.

It would be nice to think that lessons will be learned; that, individually and collectively, we will discover our self-respect and understand that governments only ever treat us the way we allow; that, when this is over, an enormous reorganisation of the nation’s priorities will be undertaken, by both the politicians and the electorate; that, at last, people will concern themselves with the value of others and much less with the cost of things.

If Boris Johnson, in any way, might be that catalyst then he will have done at least one noble thing in his life.

My breath, however, remains unheld.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 08:01 AM

I'm pretty sure you have quoted that before, Rain Dog. What's your point?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 05:41 AM

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

From Animal Farm by George Orwell.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:49 AM

"Seems to me if someone does not have a good word to say about Boris it would be better they said nothing at all"
A pretty obvious way of dodging responsibility for your own behaviour Iains
Who's to blame you ?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:49 AM

seems to me that if if anyone has a bad word to say about anyone and wishes to do it repeatedly, offensively and with no care, self-awarenessunderstanding or even the suggestion of any basic sympathy (or humour) at least they will be allowed to do so on mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:35 AM

i do not like johnson however i hope he does not die

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:30 AM

Seems to me if someone does not have a good word to say about Boris it would be better they said nothing at all. It really shows up what sort of person they really are.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 04:21 AM

The Financial Times, 30 March 2020

        Civil service reform has been a key objective of the Johnson government — particularly for the prime minister’s chief adviser Dominic Cummings, who believes Whitehall is responsible for many policy failures

Micheal Gove, 7 April 2020:

The work of government goes on, we have a superb civil service and they have ensured that the machinery is there for decisions to be made by ministers, by medical and scientific experts, and for those decisions to be followed through in a way which enables us to help those on frontline.

===

A week is a long time in politics, exhibit 1.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 20 - 03:27 AM

Of course people are right about not wishing ill on people, but unfortunate there are so many people we have to worry about at present that we all mentally categories them
We made friends among the Traveller families who have remain living in the appalling conditions they were forced to in normal times - I wonder all the time how they are getting on
A close friend in London was a Kurdish refugee living in an over-occupied tower block in North West London - I worry how Ali's family is getting on all the time
Some of my family live in areas poorly served by hospitals at the best of times and cannot afford private attention
That list is endless
Many of the people on it live as they do because of the system either forced or inveigled on us by people like Johnson so, with the best will in the world, while I don't wish anybody ill, he comes pretty low on my 'Get well soon card' list and I have no intention shedding crocodile tears for his recovery - he'll have to wait in the queue like everybody else has to
I'd be fascinated to see how the "let them sleep in the park" crowd would have reacted if it had been Corbyn or the one they keep comparing with a hippo had fallen ill - but that's probably my evil sense of humour
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:57 PM

Dominic Raab was clearly distressed this evening and, I thought, he showed his real unspun self. A rare sight in UK politics. I've got my very vulnerable mum to worry about and I personally knew a bloke who's just died. When push comes to shove we're all human beings and we're all vulnerable. Bad times. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:24 PM

My wife was in the ICU at ST Georges Tooting 4 years ago after brain surgery - they do know what they are doing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:18 PM

No one, I hope, would wish this on anyone at all. Johnson is under the management to one of the most experienced ICU in the country, so his chances are a high as we can make them.   We can but hope it goes well, though it may take a good few days before we know.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:16 PM

I would, exclusively for Donald Trump. Donald is deliberately evil while Boris is a natural goofball and deserves compassion.
Wishes don't work anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:23 PM

i would be more than happy if i never saw boris johnson again but would not wish ill health or worse on anyone. he is one of many people having a terrible time and lets hope for better news for everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:14 PM

I too add my wishes that Boris Johnson makes a full and complete recovery from this virus.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:03 PM

This is terrible news. Sod the politics. I hate you, Boris, but just get well please. PLEASE!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:45 PM

ed miliband back on the front bench......boris johnson in intensive care. coincidence......?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:42 PM

At this point I must restrain my dark sense of humour...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:41 PM

We don't have intensive care

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:32 PM

We don’t have a Prez.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:24 PM

Your prez is in intensive care.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:21 PM

At 7pm Boris moved into intensive care.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:47 PM

Walky - boris is always wearing a mask...


Jim - beware of boris's hospital bed if the curtains are drawn all around it...

"Carry on Nurse" and it's raunchier later 1960s sequel remade for the corona crisis...

"ooooh mr Johnson, you are a one.. giggle.. squeal.. it's more than your temperature that's rising...!!!"

cue comical swanee slide whistle musical sting...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:23 PM

Hopefully, somewhat clumsy Boris Johnson has not passed Covid_19 to anyone but, it seems to me, far less likely if he had worn a mask - as I've been suggesting for weeks, having observed those in nations containing this virus relatively well doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:16 PM

"My hunches"
Or maybe he's faking it for a sympathy shag - we've all tried it :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 11:33 AM

My hunches are either gove got at boris
in some dastardly Agatha Cristie villain like way;
or boris got bored confined up in his pigeon loft
and did something really stupid and hazardous to himself...???

Oranges and binbags comes to mind as a particular tory solitary peccadillo...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 11:12 AM

Ir seems that New Russia is out to cause mischief by spreading misinformation
I can't see much reason for the hospital spokesman lying - a prime Minister on a ventilator is good publicity for a Government which appears fairly short of anything else going for it
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 10:24 AM

What is the coyness about whether Johnson has or has not had oxygen? I know there is a huge reluctance to say any politician may be frail for a while, but I doubt if it can be hidden long term either way, so why not just admit it or deny it?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 08:35 AM

Or we can stay where we are safest, at least for the rime being rather than put Britain's fate in the hands of an obvious mental deficient
I'm sure Europe would make an exception for such a lapse of concentration
If you think getting this far was hard - you ain't seen nuffin' yet

Johnson's carers have denied that he is on a ventilator and it is now claimed that the story has been spread by Russian hackers - that's what 'freeing Russia fro tyranny" does for you eh !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 07:16 AM

I sincerely hope the kicking the economy is already taking forces Britain to rethink this leaving home like a sulky teenager

But we have already legally left at the end of January, so our options are limited. We can, however, still choose whether to leave like a sulky teenager or to leave like a mature adult. For all his faults Boris is a pragmatist and I think would try to find a reasonable working arrangement. Raab is a true believer who will not be swayed whatever evidence might arise that leaving at the start of say Jan 2022 rather than Jan 2021 would be beneficial to the country.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 06:52 AM

"it would seem a bit reckless to go to the hospital just 'for tests' and unless the prime minister's condition is more serious than that"
In this case he had been mixing freely with people who already had it and obviosly not sticking to the rules he was laying down for everybody else
In the case of a prominent public figure he needs to set an example, if not practice what he preaches

As far as Brexit is concerned, I sincerely hope the kicking the economy is already taking forces Britain to rethink this leaving home like a sulky teenager rather than being forced to go cap in hand to the Predatory Prat of Pennsylvania Avenue
Jim arroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 06:52 AM

It wasn’t aimed specifically at you Steve. It was a general comment on the pointlessness of engaging with a troll whose only purpose is to stoke the flames. Those whom the cap fits should wear it. Otherwise...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 06:11 AM

What do you mean, John? I didn't engage with anyone. I expressed a very simple sentiment which set politics aside for a sec, then out of the blue a big bollocking post from a mod appeared. Doubleyou tee eff?

See above. I was agreeing with your post whilst trying to point out the uselessness of some one liners. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 06:09 AM

It’s especially significant, considering that our leaders have grabbed EU funding for fourteen repatriation flights for U.K. citizens (reported in the FT but, as it’s paywalled, I’m unable to provide a link that’s of any value). That’s despite the fact that, as our resident Europhobes gleefully celebrated on this forum, we ‘Got Brexit Done’ at the end of January.

“Take are cuntry back”? Only when it suits, apparently.

WE still make payments to the EU until the end of the year.Therefore it is only right we make use of facilities we pay for.....

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 06:04 AM

An extremely good article here from Rafael Behr in The Guardian, drawing attention to the pointlessness of Brexit in the face of the Coronavirus crisis.

It’s especially significant, considering that our leaders have grabbed EU funding for fourteen repatriation flights for U.K. citizens (reported in the FT but, as it’s paywalled, I’m unable to provide a link that’s of any value). That’s despite the fact that, as our resident Europhobes gleefully celebrated on this forum, we ‘Got Brexit Done’ at the end of January.

“Take are cuntry back”? Only when it suits, apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:55 AM

when we are being asked to stay away from public spaces and hospitals in particular it would seem a bit reckless to go to the hospital just 'for tests' and unless the prime minister's condition is more serious than that

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:34 AM

"they give cover to the trolls."
Agree with this to a point but I think were's
re all on edge at present and the drip-drip-drip of their venom becomes a little untakeable at times
I'd rather show them up fo the twots they are on occasion
Finished now - were's me white horse - Yi - ho - Silverrrr
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:29 AM

"Good wishes and a speedy recovery to all"
I can't but agree with thet, it would be inhuman to do otherwise, but recalling the dismissal of concerns for health workers with inadequate protection as "leftie negativity" by those falling over themselves to send get well soon cards to Prime ministers, it rings somewhat hollow
Johnson will undoubtedly be given the best treatment available by well-protected medical staff while the rest will just have to cross their fingers
Not too long ago Johnson made public that he was refusing to be tested after hobnobbing with victims of the virus
Given the behaviour of Boris's barmy army towards the hoi-poloi over this period I very much doubt if the phrase "serves them right" wouldn't have put in an appearance on more than one occasion were it the lower orders who had behaved in this dangerously selfish manner
I recall being lectured by one of them about my duty to isolate and not to worry too much about getting enough food in few days ago
Nothing about forcing Boris to get tested before he becomes a Typhoid Mary
I find some of the inhumanity on display almost as distasteful as the double standards - but that's politics for you
How about us moving on ?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:14 AM

Yes Steve, that’s the problem when people ignore the forum advice and insist on engaging with trolls - they give cover to the trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:13 AM

I merely agreed with the sentiments expressed by Mr Shaw. The subject matter should be non political

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:02 AM

Who was that aimed at? I don't understand the last two posts. One purports to quote me but changes all my wording (I didn't mind), then a fierce enjoinder from out of nowhere...?

I was agreeing with your post, Steve but aiming the other comment ( in general) at some one-line posts that were obviously flame-baiting.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Barb'ry
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:48 AM

'Good wishes and a speedy recovery to all' is a great one-liner: others are not so good. A one-liner used to score meaningless points in the poster's own internal competition serves no useful purpose but to inflame, flame-bait or behave in a trolling manner.
Please desist. Thank you.