BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 04:52 PM

I thought Johnson came over very well for a change in making the announcement for lockdown.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 05:12 PM

But who was under the table operating him like basil brush, or sooty and sweep...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 05:17 PM

Interesting!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 05:30 PM

Oi, pfr, I can see the lower reaches of the Bristol Channel from my house (when I want to act posh, I tell people it's the broad Atlantic...) I don't want to see corpses floating by...

Just give us a listen, mods. We're a bunch of hairy-arsed Brit twats all right, but we're not brain-dead and we can see what's going on. And,though you can never, ever accept it, for reasons best known to yourselves, there is no cabal, no conspiracy, no usual suspects. I have this half-arsed theory that we don't have proper folkie forums here because "the English folk scene" (as opposed to the actual music...) tends to live up its own self-regarding bottom, and it's best viewed from a distance...There have been lively forums in Irish music, such as Jezza's TheSession and the moribund Irtrad, then there's that fish 'n' chipple of yours (yawn...)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 05:56 PM

Boris seems to get it, 3 months late. People are dieing here at a hundred a day and accelerating.

If one compares the 'decorum' in your Parliment with the US Congress you will understand the culture shock Americans can have with Brits.

The Pound is now at $1.15

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 03:39 AM

Back to the subject:
Clear    incisive action off Boris last night. real Churchillian behaviour. What a hero!
1)First he asked nicely for people to behave themselves and obey social distancing. He was ignored.
2)Now he has waved the big stick with the most draconian measures ever seen in peacetime Britain.
3)If his    edicts are still ignored the next escalation will be the army on the streets and   not to carry little old ladies shopping.

If a success, these measures will start to show results in another two weeks.

I   think the behaviour shown by a large sector of the public clearly
indicates why responses have to be staged and commensurate with what the dubious data dictates.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lessons-from-past-outbreaks-could-help-fight-the-coronavirus-pandemic1/

Lockdown has   worked in China, S.Korea and apparently the rate of infection is slowing in Spain.

As a total aside: It is interesting the actress Remainer-luvvie Emma Thompson, who in February won a lot of publicity by moving to Venice with her husband in the wake of Brexit, has fled back to a cottage and barn in Scotland after northern Italy became a no-go zone due to Coronavirus.
One can almost understand Emma’s decision, as the media’s advice on running away to second homes has been far from clear. On Saturday, the Daily Mail published the now-deleted article, “Britain’s brilliant boltholes: The best places to revel in splendid isolation, from the lonely Lancashire hills to the Welsh wilderness”, even recommending activities in case rural boredom sets in. Such behaviour is strictly contrary to official government advice (besides hacking off and overloading the medical facilities of the locals)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 03:55 AM

As I made a mess of saying yesterday, I am quite significantly affected (indirectly) by this lockdown, as three family weddings in the next few months are cancelled - even if the restrictions are relaxed in 3 weeks I don't see them being relaxed sufficiently for those to take place.

Nevertheless, I think it was a necessary action.

Equally, I don't think they go far enough. I haven't seen what is happening in the shops today, but I expect them to be stripped like nothing before. And that will continue for a few days. I don't really see how we prevent that without formal rationing. Just like the 'advisory' distance was ignored by a sizeable number of people, attempts by the shops to limit sales per customer are too easily cheated.

Some solution to the lost income for zero hour contract workers will also have to be found.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 04:19 AM

This legislation may have had an embyonic existance is some dusty Ministry canbinet, but until dusted off and brought into play all sorts of essential items will have been overlooked or tackled maladroitly. Clarity is only achieved when shortcomings are recognised and responded to. This will not happen overnight.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:27 AM

You all have the choice of setting up your own boards. How many of you have done that?

It is just a handful of people, not even two handfuls, who tend to post to these political threads. To what end? Yours (and mine) amusement? I certainly don't think anyone ventures down here for political enlightenment. If they did I would be worried about them.

I came here originally for the music section. I do read quite a few of the posts there and I appreciate the information that I have gained from quite a few of the threads. Even there so many of the threads end in the usual argumentative tedium, trotted out by the usual suspects. I simply choose to scroll past those posts. The shame is that some of the usual suspects also post stuff that I do enjoy and find of interest. Just a matter of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

We live in interesting times. I am sure that we all have more important things to concern ourselves with. I hope that you and yours stay safe.

Now, give us a song will ya'?

PS

Please ensure that you wash your hands after reading this post.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:49 AM

Far be it from me to hold punkfolkrocker up as a paragon of virtue, but he is. He's feisty, and he makes it known when he doesn't like something. But he doesn't get nasty or angry. He always has a good sense of humor, and he's often hilarious. And he seems to have a good time here.

If we all could lighten up and follow the sterling example of PFR, I think we'd all have a good time here.

I notice that there are very few gentle people and almost no women who participate in these long, angry threads. I think the animosity scares them away. People often tell me that they don't come to Mudcat because they don't like the animosity. I feel bad about that.

Joe

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:20 AM

PFR takes a position I may not always agree with but he manages to put it across without incendiary unsupported statements.
Perhaps a lesson for many!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:23 AM

and now for something completely different.
The senseless British tourist seen being arrested in a Facebook video which has gone viral has been identified as Labour councillor, Unison staff member, and three time Labour Party parliamentary candidate, Joanne Rust. Last week she was dramatically arrested having been dragged from a swimming pool in Tenerife for breeching Spain’s strict hotels quarantine rules.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:30 AM

You could start by stamping on that post, mods. We know precisely what he's up to, and I reckon you do too.

---

No, we don't. Not without looking it up. Most of this British fighting words stuff is gibberish on this side of the pond. That's why you would do better to ignore than to expect we know what the hell you are fighting about.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:33 AM

Steve, am I correct in thinking that both The Session and Gaughan's forum were members-only? Our tradition is to be an open forum. We changed to members-only in the BS forum only reluctantly, and we won't do that in the music forum.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:45 AM

It has to be said yet again, but the one and only way to defeat the trouble maker is to completely ignore him.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:52 AM

Well Mr Shaw without starting WW3 you own coterie is very good at posting all sorts of unsubstantiated whispers and rumours undermining the government of the day. IF everone listed the facts on which they base their arguments the arguing would drop dramatically. You would be nonexistant for a start, having never constructed a link in your life. I present facts and interpretation of facts. How many posts by the left have been purely ad hominem attacks because the argument could not be refuted.
I suggest any contentious post without supporting facts immediately generates a week suspension.
My post above is documented, proven and with video evidence. The fact you do not like the substance of the post does not alter the fact it is true. Live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:59 AM

I don't know what the hell Iains is talking about, but seems to me that it is purely political, which isn't prohibited here.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 08:20 AM

Joe: FYI

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8144171/British-woman-dragged-Tenerife-pool-police-hard-left-unionist-rabble-rouser.htm
and

https://order-order.com/2020/03/24/labour-candidate-arrested-spanish-swimming-pool-breeching-quarantine/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE5UmxWMOPs

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:33 AM

As we appear to be stuck with this feller, parhaps it's worth reminding people of this fact
He is an open supporter, if not a member, of a Neo-Nazi organisation and
has advocated in support of the criminal behaviour of the leader of one
of the Britain’s leading ultra-right groups, ‘The English Defence League’
When Robinson was jailed several years ago for attempting to ‘pervert the
course of justice’ by interfering in a trial that was taking place in the
British courts, Iains began publicising a petition circulating on the
internet to free him
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:40 AM

Gaughan's forum was members only, and you had to be approved to get in.
What's ironic about that is that Dick once posted in Mudcat that he wouldn't join because he didn't like cookies. Things change as people adapt.

This place was created to discuss music, not provide an arena to fight in, which is undoubtedly why the moderation doesn't make those fighters happy. I doubt that ANY would. It's a terrible shame that there's no place on the Internet to discuss British politics.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:05 AM

Sorry Jeri, I don't understand
Yes, Mudcat was created to discuss music, but the organised was astute enough to realise that some of us had other interests and was generous enough to allow us a place to discuss it here
That you consider healthy, sometimes enthusiastic debate as "fighting" is your prerogative. of course; some of us "healthy, sometimes enthusiastic debate"
It's what happens hen people take their interests seriously
There is a great deal of healthy, sometimes enthusiastic debate and politics, football.... ans all other aspects of life in Britain at present
Myby the Trump administration has managed to stamp it out in the US - I wouldn't put it past their trying !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:09 AM

This place was created to discuss music, not provide an arena to fight in

Join in a thread about source singers, Walter Pardon, Ewan MacColl, the quality of modern folk clubs or "what is folk?", and you can cover both bases. (Add your own topics to the list as you feel fit!)

DC

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:43 AM

Joining the Gaughan forum was no harder than joining any other forum. One massive difference is that anonymity wasn't allowed, though you could still use your pseudonym. I utterly agree with that (and have always used my real name on any forum I've been on). I hear mucho bullshit from people who think so much of themselves that they feel that "for professional reasons/insert own excuse" they must remain anonymous. Maybe there are one or two that that might justifiably apply to, people who have been personally targeted by past trolling, for example, but anonymity on this forum has all too frequently been used by trolls, and there are many well-known musicians and song-collectors, etc., here who use their real names cheerfully. The mods should have a straight line to every member's real name and email address, and, if you don't want to join, tough luck. You have no good reason not to do so. It honestly doesn't hurt, does it?Several good threads above the line have been wrecked by a stalking and garrulous ex-member in recent weeks, but the mods prefer to blame Jim instead. Of course, members-only wouldn't solve every problem here. Back to my post on consistent moderation then...And do try to get on with each other better...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:00 PM

Yup - that's the one
"A petition has been set up by his supporters on change.org calling for Theresa May to free him.
"Tommy Robinson has been arrested and jailed for reporting on Muslim grooming gangs," it says."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 01:35 PM

I've never been called a "paragon" before..

I suppose I'd better look it up in a dictionary before I get kneejerk reaction offended,
and complain to a mod...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 01:43 PM

"paragon - "I suppose I'd better look it up in a dictionary"
Not sure, but I think it might be referring to a missing British soldier during the Northern Ireland conflict :-)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 07:55 AM

Prince Charles tests positive for Coronavirus

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 10:32 AM

Well that might solve that inconvenient problem for royalty fans
who'd prefer William next...

..useful silent targeted assassins, are pandemics...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 11:05 AM

Could have been worse - he might have had Andrews problems and caught something else
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 11:06 AM

I've never been called a "paragon" before..

I suppose I'd better look it up in a dictionary

A Paragon is a Clifford Essex banjo. The tenor versions have some popularity in Irish music, probably helped by Barney McKenna of the Dubliners playing one for years.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 11:18 AM

i don't know if charles has had much contact with his parents but wonder if they are unwell. i don't really watch tv but have not heard much from the queen - it is her role to appeal to and try to reassure the country at times like this. and it wouldn't do any harm if some of the younger members were helping with the national effort. forgive me if i've missed it but they could be doing a lot for people who like that sort of activity

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 11:53 AM

The yarn goes that he last saw mother on the 12th but has only been infectious since the 13th. Lucky queer old dean, eh? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:01 PM

And I note that many a big world leader thinks that Boris has screwed up big time on this pandemic. Too little, too late, lessons not learned, bollox-speak about getting it done in twelve weeks (stick that on a red bus, Boris), NHS seriously run down after ten years of Toryism, can't get the kit to hospitals, can't get more than a next-to-useless 5000 tests a day done (even his old mucker Jeremy *unt - with apologies to Jim Naughtie - has bollocked him for that)... Nearly got me 'ead ripped off for saying that this government is killing people, didn't I...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:12 PM

"The tenor versions have some popularity in Irish music"
Not in Clare they don't
The co-founder of the Willie Clancy Summer School, the late Muirís Rochain was pressurised into eventually including them in the School after 40 years
He reluctantly agreed saying "We'll give them a try, but we don't want to encourage them buggers too much, do we"
Lovely man
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:47 PM

pfr:
Is that the same BBC News who were saying 3 hours ago that: Coronavirus: NHS capacity 'won't be breached at national level' on their online news channel?: Here

If they've repudiated that claim since, they haven't let their online news channel know.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:49 PM

UK coronavirus mass home testing to be made available 'within days'

As yet, we have little detail of this, but I hope the instructions that come with it as absolutely clear, because misuse could lead to a massive rise in infections. I am basing this on what little has been said so far, but it could change when we get more detail.

I fear that a lot of people who have a test that shows them to be clear will interpret that as meaning they can go out safely. The government and medics will really need to hammer home that is the exact opposite of how to understand the test. The 'best' result is that is shows you have the antibodies, at which you then stay in isolation for another two weeks. Only then is it likely to be safe to go out.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:57 PM

Nigel - remind us if you are one of those ideologically motivated beeb bashers,
grateful for any opportunity to give the BBC a sly kicking...???

Iains - why would anyone in their right mind even think about Piss Morgan [spellcheck...???],
let alone mention him in this thread...

It actually might have been,
"Keith Neal, emeritus professor of epidemiology of infectious diseases, University of Nottingham"..
Though I'm not absolutely certain...?????????????????
Nottingham rings a bell for some reason..

btw.. the wife's joke was ok enough, but might get deleted here...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 12:58 PM

Last week, Ian Donald, Emeritus Professor at the University of Liverpool, shared a short thread on Twitter explaining why the Government’s approach could be very effective, while noting that it also had its risks.

Before tough measures were introduced, Mr Donald wrote: "The Government's strategy on coronavirus is more refined than those used in other countries and potentially very effective.

"But it is also riskier and based on a number of assumptions. They need to be correct, and the measures they introduce need to work when they are supposed to.

"A UK starting assumption is that a high number of the population will inevitably get infected whatever is done – up to 80 percent.

"As you can’t stop it, so it is best to manage it."

Looks like Dominic's request for freaks and weirdos had results. The accuracy and efficacy of their forecasting will be seen in coming days.

https://newslanes.com/coronavirus-action-plan-how-dominic-cummings-real-strategy-could-be-most-effective/

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 01:17 PM

Johnson appears to be taking a leaf from Trump's book and running miles behind everybody else, then taking the credit for having thought of it first
Chetlenham was typical of the crassness of ignoring advice

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 01:44 PM

Nigel - remind us if you are one of those ideologically motivated beeb bashers,
grateful for any opportunity to give the BBC a sly kicking...???

I wasn't bashing the BBC, but pointing out that their current position (per their website) didn't agree with your memory of a quote you made which you admitted that you were unable to attribute.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 01:46 PM

DMcG:The government and medics will really need to hammer home that is the exact opposite of how to understand the test. The 'best' result is that is shows you have the antibodies, at which you then stay in isolation for another two weeks. Only then is it likely to be safe to go out.

I understood that once one had the virus (or antibodies showing one had had the virus) the quarantine time was 7 days. 14 days is for your family, who may still be incubating the virus.

100

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 01:54 PM

Nigel - it's real life as it unfolds..
Rolling news headlines interspersed with shoehorned in live interviews..
While home viewers are trying to digest 'latest' info and advice,
despite domestic distractions..
A headline reporting boris's bluff 'n' bollox from 3 or 4 hours ago,
may not have been updated as rapidly as you require...

btw.. are 24/7 news channels now operated by overwhelmed emergency skeleton teams,
just so they can even stay on air...

Well done Aunty Beeb, keep up the good work as well as possible
in these extraordinarily trying times...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 01:59 PM

Nigel - BTW.. I never "admitted" anything - that's a naughty twist of emphasis by you..

I merely "accepted" I was unable to read the academic's name and University caption at that precise time...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 01:59 PM

Yes, Nigel, you are probably right that seven days will be enough. That will also be something I hope they make clear when they start rolling the test out. But it was more how people treat the 'all clear' that concerns me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 02:24 PM

1)Johnson appears to be taking a leaf from Trump's book and running miles behind everybody else, then taking the credit for having thought of it first
Chetlenham was typical of the crassness of ignoring advice
2) Mr Donald wrote: "The Government's strategy on coronavirus is more refined than those used in other countries and potentially very effective.
author number one qualifications ex sparky
author number 2 qualifications BA; MSc; PhD; CPsychol; AFBPsS. Professor Psychological Sciences(Emeritus) research; Behavioural factors in Anti-Microbial Resistance.

Well who to believe? Life is such a challenge at times!
Whose advice did Boris ignore? We look forward toyou offering enlightenment! Are you trying to say Boris ignored his own experts, or you feel your expert is more qualified? or are you saying you are more qualified tomake the judgement call.

You accept IPCC pres offerings as valid yet they are based on vastly more variables and models of proven uncertainty, or was that new runway in the Maldicves designed for flying submarines?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 02:25 PM

Trum seems to have contacted a brain-eating virus
Despite it being announced that the US is due to be the next epicentre of the spread he has annonced that he expects all the churches to be full at Easter in a few weeks time
He apparently has his advisers beside him at news conferences who immediately contradict what he has just said
The analysis is that he has decided to put the economy before the well-being of the American people
I hope to go his British poodle has instinct enough to head for the bushes
Were the Yanks so bad as to deserve a leader that bad - I always got on with the ones I met
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 02:30 PM

A brain-eating virus would have starved to death in trump's cranium.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 02:31 PM

"Well who to believe? Life is such a challenge at times!
Whose advice did Boris ignore? We look forward toyou offering enlightenment! Are you trying to say Boris ignored his own experts, or you feel your expert is more qualified? or are you saying you are more qualified tomake the judgement call.

You accept IPCC pres offerings as valid yet they are based on vastly more variables and models of proven uncertainty, or was that new runway in the Maldicves designed for flying submarines?"

if that's aimed at me..
you wasted your time, I'll ignore your attempt
to drag me into a pointless argument of your own concoction..

But if it was aimed at someone else.. good luck...

That's why I start my posts with:

"Name of mudcatter - well.. I disagree with your propaganda.. etc.. etc..."

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 02:41 PM

"if that's aimed at me.."
It wasn't he seems to aim everything at whoever will listen in the vain hope somebody is
Or maybe that's the royal "we" - h seems to spend a great deal of time talking to himself nowadays - Baccy's right - about time
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 02:58 PM

PFR you were the last person on my mind.
I tried to make the point not veryclearly that potentially the error bar on all the estimates is quite large. The data is patchy and some of doubtful validity. The superforecasting techniques apparently used by the government is supposedly a little more accurate forecasting tool that other techniques.
The over riding concern is to balance the needs of patients, the NHS and economy. The intention is not stop infection but control   the rate of spread. It is not an easy task as letting the economy sink into the ground also has an impact on mortality figures down the road. If facilities are swamped, pensioners will go to the wall, not because they are exopendable but because they will tie up vital resources for a time period that would probably treat 2 younger fitter patients.
These decisions are not easy and far from clear cut. This is completely outside the normal realms os experience and events require judgement calls on the fly. They will not all be correct when studied with hindsight. That is life.