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BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

Steve Shaw 23 Sep 21 - 09:29 AM
Donuel 23 Sep 21 - 09:25 AM
Senoufou 23 Sep 21 - 08:20 AM
Donuel 23 Sep 21 - 05:47 AM
Donuel 23 Sep 21 - 04:08 AM
Sandra in Sydney 23 Sep 21 - 03:37 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Sep 21 - 11:57 PM
Donuel 22 Sep 21 - 09:38 PM
robomatic 22 Sep 21 - 07:00 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Sep 21 - 06:29 PM
Mrrzy 22 Sep 21 - 05:58 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Sep 21 - 06:00 PM
DaveRo 21 Sep 21 - 04:10 PM
Donuel 21 Sep 21 - 12:06 PM
Rain Dog 21 Sep 21 - 12:01 PM
Donuel 21 Sep 21 - 11:29 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Sep 21 - 10:14 AM
Donuel 21 Sep 21 - 06:38 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Sep 21 - 08:37 PM
Donuel 20 Sep 21 - 08:32 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Sep 21 - 05:08 PM
Nigel Parsons 20 Sep 21 - 04:47 PM
Donuel 20 Sep 21 - 03:35 PM
robomatic 20 Sep 21 - 02:36 PM
Senoufou 20 Sep 21 - 08:56 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Sep 21 - 08:43 AM
Senoufou 20 Sep 21 - 08:28 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Sep 21 - 07:45 AM
Senoufou 20 Sep 21 - 07:20 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Sep 21 - 04:28 AM
Senoufou 20 Sep 21 - 04:05 AM
Stilly River Sage 20 Sep 21 - 12:31 AM
punkfolkrocker 19 Sep 21 - 06:14 PM
DaveRo 19 Sep 21 - 02:48 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Sep 21 - 01:53 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 Sep 21 - 01:01 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Sep 21 - 12:31 PM
punkfolkrocker 19 Sep 21 - 12:29 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Sep 21 - 12:29 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Sep 21 - 12:04 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Sep 21 - 12:00 PM
Donuel 19 Sep 21 - 11:35 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Sep 21 - 10:51 AM
Stilly River Sage 19 Sep 21 - 10:25 AM
Mrrzy 19 Sep 21 - 09:24 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Sep 21 - 07:01 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Sep 21 - 06:41 AM
Rain Dog 19 Sep 21 - 06:15 AM
Sandra in Sydney 18 Sep 21 - 09:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 18 Sep 21 - 04:22 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 21 - 09:29 AM

Perhaps you could run that by us again, this time in plain language...?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Sep 21 - 09:25 AM

Confidence is emotionally good. The odds of a vaccinated death is much less than 1% percent but getting the variant (Breakthrough infections) can go up as much as ~20%.

J&J says 2 shots brings their protection up to 100% but the other vaccines don't go that high.

at least thats the NIH propoganda I have been taught.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Sep 21 - 08:20 AM

There seem to be several youngsters with Covid in our village, quite a few in our street. And what puzzles me is that their siblings are happily strolling down our road to board the school bus to the high school, or moseying down to our little village primary school. I would have though all members of a 'Covid household' should be quarantined until they all test negative?
Since my husband cleans at the same school, I'm worried he may be exposed to these 'carriers'. He seems to believe that the two jabs he's had are magic and he'll never get Covid! The pupils are all around him during the afternoons, and he's cleaning toilets etc. He promised me he always wears his mask and visor.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Sep 21 - 05:47 AM

The US has more than 2,000 agonizing Covid deaths per day.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Sep 21 - 04:08 AM

There was a village built of crumbling clay and rotting wood, and it squated under a broiling sun like a sick and mangy animal that wanted to die. This village had a virus shared by its people. It was the germ of squalor, racism and hopelessness. Those who claimed faith had lost their faith. For the faithless the hopeless and the misery laden, there is time, ample time, to engage in one of the pursuits of men. They began to destroy themselves. Every person had their own side, their own facebook page and harbored in the safety of annominity, their savory hate.
Gradually that hate grew openly and expressed itself beyond the digital world into the streets, into the school board meetings and into their guns with bullets. The only reward was the self satisfaction of owning or disgracing the other side. There was the sickening competition of the number of the dead. The only good dead were the 'other' ones. Sadly your own tribal dead were the real people, the decent folk who hated all the right folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 Sep 21 - 03:37 AM

I'm looking at the state government COVID regulations page & there it is - a bald statement, but oh, how so true what with anti-vaxxers & "freedom" marchers around. COVID-19 RULES IN NSW

It also rules in other places around Australia.

In Melbourne, Australia's 2nd largest state capital "Freedom" marchers have taken over in the past few days. Yesterday they occupied the
Shrine of Remembrance

As someone said recently, we don't have enough villages for the idiots we are producing.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Sep 21 - 11:57 PM

Washington Governor Criticizes Idaho Leadership: “Stop Clogging Up My Hospitals”

Washington Governor Jay Inslee (D) criticized Idaho leadership, saying that Idaho Governor Brad Little’s (R) disregard for the Covid-19 pandemic is “clogging up” Washington’s hospitals.

“Today in my state, Washington citizens in many cases cannot get heart surgery, cannot get cancer surgery that they need, because we are having to take too many people of unvaccinated nature and unmasked, many of whom come from Idaho, and that’s just maddening frankly,” Inslee told MSNBC.

“So we are calling for Idaho and the leaders there to lead and take some commonsense measures,” Inslee continued. “I’m disappointed the governor of Idaho has spent more time trying to reduce protection by reducing vaccine usage instead of concentrating on this, and then clogging up my hospitals.”

Inslee proceeded to criticize the Republican Party in its entirety.

“Unfortunately, that entire party, the other party, is not helping out, pulling on the rope here. Many states are in the same position and many governors will experience the same frustration I have. So it’s time for people to start pulling on the rope and do an American duty. Get vaccinated, have useful use of masks where appropriate. If we do these things, we know we can best this pandemic,” he said.

Health care workers are exhausted as Idaho’s Covid-19 cases continue their upward trajectory.

“The numbers continue to increase, and we expect them to continue to increase,” said Dave Jeppesen, the director of the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Sep 21 - 09:38 PM

All Idaho, Alaska and Montana hospitals are on [crises status].
translated: The entire state is on a kind of DNR where a triage of patients will now deny hospital service to those who are judged to probably not survive. This will apply to all patients whether they have Covid or not.
The mantra of the right that safety standards be it masks, vaccines or other mitigating procedures is a 'personal matter' is clearly not true.

I suppose this is happening due to the thin healthcare network in those states as well as the overwhelming pandemic numbers. I'm sorry, people are more than just numbers.
This development is a challenge for gallows humor comedians but I'm sure it can be done. I imagine 'crises status' might work well all the time to save money, time and suffering for patient's families, besides the dead don't pay hospital bills reliably.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Sep 21 - 07:00 PM

Good Bono joke.

That kind of humour is on display in a good show to watch during the Covid Continuation: Ted Lasso. It celebrates the mutual appreciation between our two sides of the Atlantic Ocean, where an American football coach is hired to manage a Manchester UK football team. I'm quite enjoying it.

The local headlines have been focused on our sad rate of Covid infection, which apparently leads the nation in per capita cases. According to the Daily News, people have died due to lack of availability of treatment room and proper medical equipment. Because of our low overall population the death count is very low. Most people I interact with are healthy, masked, or both. Our schools are open for now. The epidemologists are calling attention to the likelihood that Alaska lags the other states, so they hope our numbers start to decline within a week or so after the Labor Day celebrations.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 21 - 06:29 PM

Yeah, don't ask me why, but Raindog's quip reminded me of that yarn about Bono (the most pretentious man on the planet apart from Sting, or possibly Geldof): "At a U2 concert in Glasgow, Bono asks the audience for some quiet. Then in the silence, he starts to slowly clap his hands. Holding the audience in total silence, he says into the microphone, 'Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies.' A voice from near the front pierces the silence: 'Well, stop clapping your fucking hands then!' "

Anyway, enough of the diversions. Back to the substantive. Joe wants the world vaccinated. He's yet to tell us how it can be delivered, but I like the sentiment. The way out can only be by vaccination, and we are not safe until everyone's safe.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Sep 21 - 05:58 PM

Rain Dog, best guffaw in weeks!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 06:00 PM

Vaccines are the only way out of this. Boris says that his priority is to protect the British people via booster jabs. The World Health Organisation calls for the west to suspend boosters in order to get the rest of the world jabbed all the faster. I know who's right.

But I'll still take the booster when offered...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: DaveRo
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 04:10 PM

Donuel wrote: ...another shocking statistic is from Alaska that reported more deaths than births for the first time in our recorded history
Unsurprising. The population increase in the US is very low - about 0.35% in 2020 (ref). It suggests to me that the mean age of the population of Alaska is increasing a bit more than other states.

Bear in mind also that most Covid deaths are brought forward a year or two, and births are the result of, er, sentiment, 9 months earlier. So it depends on the period that the statistic applies to.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 12:06 PM

Robomatic, another shocking statistic is from Alaska that reported more deaths than births for the first time in our recorded history. One statistic means next to nothing but a myriad of statistics start to tell a tale that is incontravertible.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 12:01 PM

Here in the UK we just bury them once.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 11:29 AM

Statistics can be shocking and factual. In the US we are burying a pandemic victim every 35 seconds.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 10:14 AM

Nigel stated facts, Steve, he didn't challenge you. And if anyone else states facts you can take it from me now that they're simply stating facts, they're not here to challenge your opinion.

Update: JUST STOP the arguing and discussing moderation. You've said the same thing over and over and this won't end well if you keep it up.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 06:38 AM

Its worse than the Spanish flu.

Hard nose, red nose
some cut it off
When science is denied
the gift of life is lost

When loved ones died
of course we cried
from the terrible cost
of nature's holocaust

Here is the cure
"But I'm not sure"
Please take it anyway
"Perhaps I should just pray"


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:37 PM

Complete bollocks (which started with yada yada trolling). Still, as long as you're enjoying life.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:32 PM

yada yada yada
Lets get back to whats important, his feelings
In the land of the annoyed when the Earth and life was destroyed
in novel new ways as it has been for billions of years,
Manunkind could 'end' in a pyramid myriad of alerts and fears.
There were digital attack alerts, domestic terrorist alerts and climate
fire flood and tsunami alerts even Hawaii flirted with nuclear alerts.
What I will miss in advance, are mysteries and histories left unknown,
not just human mysteries but of whales wondering about the space
between our fingers and the dark of the deep.
Secrets of all life that time will forever keep.
Mutations won't drive evolution into a rapidly changing world
as much as our exogenetic genes from our past that turn back on.
Life may spread by pan spermia and death may spread by space virus.
We don't really know what is next for us.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 05:08 PM

Nigel, I've undertaken to not discuss this. You've seen the post. So it's rather unfair of you to challenge me, frankly. I completely disagree with you, but that's as far as I'm prepared to go for now.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 04:47 PM

Steve Shaw:
If one in a hundred of us is infected, then 99 in a hundred are wearing masks for no good reason and are not protecting anybody.

There may be many wearing masks to protect themselves from the 'one in a hundred' who is infected yet doesn't wear a mask. The one infected person in a hundred does not necessarily know that they are infected.
So the other 99 are not wearing masks for 'no good reason'. They are protecting themselves, and by doing so are are protecting others by avoiding some of the risk of catching Covid.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 03:35 PM

A pandemic related thread? How odd. I was expecting a market crash post next.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 02:36 PM

In Alaska, I've only associated with a few people, all vaccinated and careful, and while there was a Summer stint without masks, the onset of the Delta variant along with a substantial unvaccinated population in the State and a consequent loss of spare beds in the local hospitals has led to renewed mask self-mandate, the 'self' part of it being that Anchorage has elected a Mayor who is not into the whole 'action' response to the pandemic. Likewise the Governor is no better. They both owe their electinos to the right wing pro-business people (who are not the same thing, but if you campaign carefully you can get a majority).

And the folks I assoiate with now have other associates who have been marked by Covid infections. This has lowered the degrees of separation we have experienced from the disease.

Meanwhile due to some youtube presenting with other folks, all of whom were declared vaccinated, I'd been exposed to some people I know but haven't socialized with for over a year. Anyhow, about twelve days after starting the project I awoke with a sore throat and a slight temperature. My regualar friends suggested I get a Covid test and I agreed, although I suspected I was fighting off a non-Covid virus. I was able to look up among the various test options in town and register over my cellphone. Then I took a fifteen minute drive to a church parking lot where there was a line of cars. As I have found in Alaska, things were run very efficiently. There were two health aides at once taking samples from cars, and things moved faster than I expected. They promised to post results within 48 hours and it was more like 30 hours. And it was negative as I expected.

looking both around the world and back in history, it seems that the level of variation in response and experience is not that exceptional. There are many photos you can find of people wearing masks during the Great flu pandemic, but many not so garbed. The medical establishment then was far more primitive than that of today. And if you look at the Israeli situation, it seemed to start out so progressively and has deteriorated sharply with many vaccine deniers and breakthrough infections, and I believe that most other countries have their version of non-vaccinated at various levels of fantasy and mistrust.

Wishing everyone well and coming back to the standby slogan: "Keep Calm, Vaccinate, Mask-on".


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:56 AM

Ah yes, the Science teacher! Has had a very extensive education, knows and updates everyone about many interesting topics in the world of Science, and enjoys gourmet dinners with fine wine.
Actually I had a Physics teacher who was a rampant misogynist and despised his female pupils, a Chemistry teacher who also taught rugby (ferocious chap) plus a really lovely Biology teacher who knew how to teach with enthusiasm and insight. Thanks to them all I passed with Grade 1 in all three subjects.
My favourite though was a very camp, gay English teacher, Mr Shearn. He read out to us all the poems and quoted Shakespeare with feeling. He acted out the parts as if he was on stage. I was fascinated by him and got an 'A' at A level thanks to his dedication.
It takes all sorts eh? (innit?)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:43 AM

You forgot to mention the science teacher... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:28 AM

Hee hee Steve!! Careful, you might end up buying the Daily Mail and voting Tory (Quick! Send for an ambulance!!)
I often feel that Mudcat is rather like a lively staff-meeting in a school. There's the young student teacher tentatively making a tiny comment, the Head Teacher trying to keep things moving along and squashing the strident teachers. Then the airy-fairy Arts teacher who side-tracks the discussion with aesthetic remarks. Not to mention the Politics/Economics person who knows an awful lot and wants to enlighten the others.
Me? I'm the dotty old tea lady. "Tea and crumpets anybody?" (yap yap yappity yap)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 07:45 AM

Cheers for that, Eliza! I agree with you, and, naturally, I'm not at all biased! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 07:20 AM

No, Steve is merely forthright and speaks his mind without timidity.
We all have our different characters on here, and for me, it makes it all the more interesting!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 04:28 AM

Well I haven't dismissed anybody. I've said repeatedly that I respect the wishes of those who want to wear masks, and that I would personally never break rules. I think that's a respectable position. Please don't misrepresent me then go for the last word. On the issue of masks, that's me done now. OK?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 04:05 AM

I agree Stilly that bickering on and on and on serves no purpose really. And perhaps it would be better if people could just 'agree to disagree'.
We always wear a mask (paper ones that we throw away after use) Our lovely neighbour gets multi-packs of them for us in a Poundsavers shop when she visits a nearby little town.
But we don't mind at all wearing one. (Cheeky husband says it 'improves me'!!) However, we very much respect the views and feelings of those who can't bear having their noses/mouths covered and who believe there is no benefit. Each to his own. But we personally need to protect ourselves, being a bit vulnerable.
Same as getting a vaccine/booster etc. We wouldn't 'harp on' to anyone about it, but just quietly (and thankfully) whizz off to our local surgery to get the latest offering (booster soon!)


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 12:31 AM

Steve, when the bickering is removed, it really isn't a good move on your part to continue the conversation. Your view on masks has registered and been rejected. Leave it at that. You combine science and opinion as if they are the same thing, and dismiss those who have a very good reason for wearing masks to save their health and lives. "It could be that masks are incredibly effective. But I don't think so." STOP RIGHT THERE. Just give it a rest.

No more.

Most of us don't agree with you, but as you come in and argue again and again how it doesn't work, you feed into the arguments of the antivaxxers, and we're just not having that here. I don't want to close this thread, but my options are to block you or stop the conversation.

It's in your court. We'll see how this goes in the morning.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 06:14 PM

Whatever the stats...

It is an objective fact that too many folks I encounter
who seem sensible and considerate enough to wear masks,
are too inept at wearing them effectively and safely..

I can guess there is a factor of passive aggressive deliberate misuse,
from those anti maskers so timid of breaking compulsary mask wearing regulations
that they comply by defiantly wearing them wrong with their noses poking out...???

Then there are the many good folks who do agree with wearing masks
but still fail to do it properly.
They are a frustrating liability...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 02:48 PM

punkfolkrocker wrote: I don't bother with statistics...
Statistics is (are?) interesting.

For example, in the UK, we know the number of vaccinated people but not the number of unvaccinated people, so some claims are misleading:
Take care with claims about unvaccinated case rates

When masks became no-longer compulsory on trains around here we bought some higher spec (FFO2) ones.

The other day I was in a busy art gallery and realised I had to sneeze. Do I sneeze in my mask or what?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 01:53 PM

Well I know I run the risk of being associated with such types, but I am not of them....

Here's where I am:

I don't think masks do much good, if any.

In fact, I think that the majority of mask-wearers are guilty of mask-abuse (using the same mask for days, in and out of their snot-rag pockets and contaminating their notes and coins, left festering on the dashboard, down-up-down-up, fiddled around with, scratching nose through...), any or all of which renders masks potentially worse than useless...

I want to show my face and I want to see others' faces too.

If one in a hundred of us is infected, then 99 in a hundred are wearing masks for no good reason and are not protecting anybody.

I'm sick of seeing mask-litter everywhere I go...even in Bude...

I've seen plenty of examples of mask-wearers being complacent. Coming up close, reaching across me in shops. I can honestly say that not one single unmasked person has ever done that to me, and I don't do it to other people.

Finally, there can't be good science with regard to mask efficacy. I won't repeat myself again on that one. We wear masks mostly because "higher authorities" are constantly pushing them. And they have no better evidence than we do.

I've kept every rule on this to the letter ever since the first lockdown. I won't rebel. But I'm wondering what kind of a country we're turning into when we are told that for months on end we can't be in the same house as our loved ones, we can't have Christmas, we can't go here and there and that we must hide the one physical attribute that is the most human of all, our faces.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 01:01 PM

..But I also wear masks as my futile protest in a tory town centre of mostly maskless inconsiderate morons...

Considering I look more like an old working class ukipper, than a lefty SJW..

I'll do whatever I can to confuse the gammon buggers who might presume I'm one of theirs...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:31 PM

A good, sound, sane post. The difference between us is that I exercise MY free choice by wearing masks when compulsory. My arguments are not rebellion.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:29 PM

I don't bother with statistics...

Obviously, no certainties..

But I just continue voluntarily wearing masks, using anti bac hand gel, and social distancing,
based on a well informed reasonable probability it just might
help keep me, my loved ones, and any strangers I encounter
safe and alive...

It is a pain in the arse, and masks are uncomfortable,
and likely mostly an ineffective effort,
but there are worst things in life to endure..

It's my free independent choice.

The real sheeple are all the easily manipuated brainwashed conformist alt right / relgious death cultists...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:29 PM

"Steve, you need to stop characterizing others' understanding of science based upon your own. There is no confusion here. Masks protect me, and protect others. End. of. story."

That's as far away from any understanding of science as it's possible to get.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:04 PM

I have no certainties and you won't find any in that post. Even if the science re masks became miraculously strong (which it can't, for reasons I've given, but hey ho), there STILL wouldn't be any certainties. There never are in science. The science behind global heating is rock-solid but still there are no certainties. Ironically, you make this assertion, which is unsupportable by evidence, as a certainty: "So I mask for myself and my neighbor and make encounters 70% safer." Like to tell me how you arrived at that??


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:00 PM

Steve, you need to stop characterizing others' understanding of science based upon your own. There is no confusion here. Masks protect me, and protect others. End. of. story.

Breakthrough cases of COVID-19.

Your Health: I Got A 'Mild' Breakthrough Case. Here's What I Wish I'd Known (via National Public Radio, Sept. 12, 2021)

I was just one more example of our country's tug and pull between fantasies of a post-COVID-19 summer and the realities of our still-raging pandemic, where even the vaccinated can get sick.

Not only was I sick, but I'd brought the virus home and exposed my 67-year-old father and extended family during my first trip back to the East Coast since the start of the pandemic. It was just the scenario I had tried to avoid for a year and a half. And it definitely was not the summer vacation I had anticipated.

Where did I get it? Who knows. Like so many Americans, I had loosened up with wearing masks and social distancing after getting fully vaccinated. We had flown across the country, seen friends, stayed at a hotel, eaten indoors and, yes, even went to a long-delayed wedding with other vaccinated people.

I ended up in quarantine at my father's house. Two rapid antigen tests (taken a day apart) came back negative, but I could tell I was starting to feel sick. After my second negative test, the nurse leveled with me. "Don't hang your hat on this," she said of the results. Sure enough, a few days later the results of a PCR test for the coronavirus (this one sent to a lab) confirmed what had become obvious by then.

It was a miserable five days. My legs and arms ached, my fever crept up to 103 and every few hours of sleep would leave my sheets drenched in sweat. I'd drop into bed exhausted after a quick trip down to the kitchen. To sum it up, I'd put my breakthrough case of COVID-19 right up there with my worst bouts of flu. Even after my fever cleared up, I spent the next few weeks feeling low.

Of course, I am very lucky. I didn't go up against the virus with a naïve immune system, like millions of Americans did until vaccines were widely available. And, in much of the world, vaccines are still a distant promise.

"You probably would have gotten much sicker if you had not been vaccinated," Francesca Torriani, an infectious disease physician at the University of California, San Diego, explained to me recently.


You've Had a COVID ‘Breakthrough Infection’—Can You Really Spread It to Others? (via Yale Medicine, published August 11, 2021)
Experts stress that vaccination is the best way to prevent infection—and transmission.
COVID-19 breakthrough infections—where a fully vaccinated person becomes infected with the coronavirus—are occurring across the globe, due, in large part, to the highly contagious Delta variant. Here in the United States, many Americans are concerned for their unvaccinated loved ones, including children and those who are immuno-compromised—and given this news, for themselves as well.

Many of us believed that the COVID-19 vaccines offered complete protection from infection, not just from severe disease and death. And though these breakthrough cases are relatively rare, they are a reminder that the pandemic is far from over.

Apart from getting sick, there is also worry that with the Delta variant, a fully vaccinated person who becomes infected may spread the coronavirus to others. According to recent reports from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), this can happen—a finding that may be a game-changer, affecting decisions on how to safely go back to school; return to the office; attend concerts or theater and sporting events; and even whether it’s safe to date.

“The CDC data comes at a critical time, when cases—mostly due to the Delta variant—are on the rise in the U.S. Areas with low vaccination coverage are being hit especially hard with the highest daily case rates in months,” says Yale Medicine infectious diseases expert Jaimie Meyer, MD, MS. “Even though many people were ready to throw away their masks and get back to ‘normal’ life this summer, the latest spikes show us that the pandemic persists. We have to use the CDC data to reassess our understanding of our personal and community risk.”


5 Things Vaccinated People Need to Know About Breakthrough Infection (via Houston Methodist, a large hospital and medical system in Texas, Published August 17, 2021)

COVID-19 Delta variant cases are rising — especially among the unvaccinated — causing a rapidly growing surge for our communities and our hospitals.

But, you're vaccinated, so does the Delta variant really mean anything for you?

Unfortunately, yes.

"The new Delta variant spreads much easier than versions of the virus we've seen previously. The good news is that, in terms of preventing severe disease, this variant is still largely susceptible to vaccination. However, no vaccine is ever 100% effective at preventing infection, and breakthrough infections are occurring," says Dr. Drews.

This is OK, though, since vaccines aren't the only safety measure we have to protect ourselves from getting sick and spreading illness.

"It's once again time for each of us to take action towards flattening the curve — even those of us who are vaccinated," says Dr. Drews. "This means putting our masks back on and taking other precautions we've seen make a difference throughout this pandemic."

So, as we take on this new COVID-19 surge, here are five things vaccinated individuals need to know.

1. What the numbers say about your risk
"Breakthrough infections are occurring, but the truly good news is that vaccinated individuals who do get COVID-19 are much less likely to be hospitalized than those who aren't vaccinated," says Dr. Drews. "The death rate is also much, much lower for vaccinated individuals."

According to CDC data, vaccinated individuals are:

8 times less likely to get COVID-19
25 times less likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19
25 times less likely to die of COVID-19

"This is welcome news since it reaffirms that the vaccines are very successful at their primary job — preventing serious disease," says Dr. Drews. "In fact, recent estimates suggest that COVID-19 vaccines have saved a quarter of a million lives and prevented more than 1 million hospitalizations."

In most cases, fully vaccinated people who do get infected with the virus are asymptomatic or experience only mild symptoms. So, while the vaccines aren't perfect, they're pretty darn close.

"The major concern about breakthrough infections during this surge is that fully vaccinated people can inadvertently spread COVID-19 to others, and it may be hard to determine how common this is," warns Dr. Drews.

This is why it's so important for all of us to take precautions right now.

"We must all take steps to not only prevent getting sick, but also prevent spreading COVID-19 to someone more vulnerable — even if that person is vaccinated and his or her risk is lower than it was previously," adds Dr. Drews.

2. What's risky, what's still safe and when to wear a mask
With COVID-19 cases rising by the day, you might be looking for help understanding what's still safe and what's risky again.

"If you're vaccinated, you can still feel relatively safe gathering indoors with a small group of vaccinated individuals," says Dr. Drews. "You'll want to be more cautious when a larger group is involved or you are in an indoor public space."

If cases are high in your area, Dr. Drews recommends moving large gatherings outdoors, as well as taking extra precautions indoors when you don't know the vaccination status of people around you.

As for those extra precautions, here are six times and places to start wearing a mask and social distancing again:

  • While running errands
  • In an indoor public space
  • Attending a worship service
  • While using public transportation (including during domestic travel)
  • In a hospital, clinic or doctor's office
  • Visiting with someone who is high-risk


"You may also choose to be more judicious about traveling and spending time in indoor spaces where wearing a mask and maintaining your distance are challenging — such as at bars, restaurants and group exercise classes, for instance," recommends Dr. Drews.


There is a lot more to each of these articles.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 11:35 AM

I went on vacay right before Delta got a strangle hold and had maskless outings. But I would rather be "confused" and be a bit safer than to be as certain as Steve and possibly suffer extreme inconvenience. So I mask for myself and my neighbor and make encounters 70% safer.
Lab creation of Covid 19 is an argument that has become scientifically more robust. The animal theory has as little/no confirmation as the biblical talking snake and has remained stagnant. Deliberate weapon production has no evidence but an accident during wicked research is more possible.
When will we know? It would take a whistle blower, espionage data interception, or a discovery of 2 more segments of other unrelated deady virus.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 10:51 AM

You're confused. According to all the punditry, any "peril" will be faced by the people who come into contact with the maskless me, not me: "Masks protect others from catching coronavirus from you," as they say. Still, as I'm fully vaccinated and I feel well, I suppose I'm probably one of the 99 in every hundred people who are supposed to wear masks pointlessly. We can't go on like this. The people who are truly imperilling you in your country (less so in mine, though they're there) are the tens of millions of vaccine-refusers. They're my target too. Keep pushing masks, though, and we'll be wearing them forever. If coronavirus is here to stay, which I suppose it is, that's what will happen.

As for the science, there isn't any that can get over even a low bar, and I've looked and looked, begod. There can be be no controlled experimentation, and confounding factors are rife and irremovable.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 10:25 AM

Weasel words to you, science many of the rest of us. Ignore masks at your own peril.

I attended an event in a large open indoor arena space yesterday and I'd say about 50% or a little more were wearing masks. I wore a mask the whole time.

The stastics show that one in every 500 Americans has now died of COVID-19. As the pandemic progresses, it will continue to affect unvaccinated adults (anti-vaxxers, Trump supporters, and those who simply have not been able to get to a vaccination location), and children (I consider them politically neutral at this point, they are under 12 and a vaccination isn't available for them yet). So there will be a continued thinning of the willfully-stupid population. As many people get their information and opinions in their personal political news silos, this isn't something to celebrate. Hopefully Biden's insistence upon the next push of vaccinations by large employers and government contractors will break up the surging spread.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 09:24 AM

Moderna seems to have the best no-hospitalization numbers...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 07:01 AM

That, not test. By the way, ""studies suggest..." is also weasel words.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 06:41 AM

"The science indicates..."

Yep, I read this too. That assertion, without enlarging on the "science" referred to or giving a link (which the article didn't), is weasel words.

The reason that this assertion should never be made is that it is impossible to gather scientific evidence for the efficacy of public mask-wearing without it being fatally clouded by confounding factors. "Masks save lives," and comments along those lines, are the absolute negation of science.

I wear a mask where I'm legally obliged to, and I would wear one if travelling on the Underground (which I may be doing quite soon as it happens), as the rules require. I don't break rules and don't advocate test anyone else should. But the usefulness of mask-wearing by the general public is either a matter of opinion or received wisdom. Take your pick.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 06:15 AM

From The Observer

To mask or not to mask? Opinion split on London underground


"Studies suggest masks cut Covid-19 transmission by up to 80%.Although there is disagreement about how much protection different types of mask offer the wearer, the science indicates that pretty much any covering protects the community from the wearer. It is this uneven interdependence that means masks are extremely effective at revealing hypocrisy.

Few places demonstrate the contested role of the mask more clearly than the London underground system. “Face coverings must be worn for the full duration of journeys on the TfL network, including inside our stations and bus stations,” states the Transport for London website, which also lists no less than 11 categories of exemption. This message is continually repeated over loudspeakers, and on advertising hoardings within underground stations.

Yet as many as half the travellers on the system are now ignoring this stipulation. On Friday, I travelled from Queen’s Park to Oxford Circus on the Bakerloo line. When I got off, there were 40 people in the carriage – only 16 of whom were wearing masks."


In my local Morrisons i would say about a third of the customers now wear masks. The non mask wearers include people of all ages.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 09:33 PM

One of the protestors in a recent "freedom' march wore a shirt saying 'God is my vaccine' ...

No doubt she had received her babyhood & childhood vaccinations as she appears to be of an age when every parent lined up & anti-vaxxers did not exist.

Recently I saw a 1950s photo of a gi-normous ward full of iron lungs with a nurse sitting next to each one.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 04:22 PM

.. maybe covid is an apolitical virus...???

But if it is seen as an antibody of our planets immune defense system,
then it is very effective at taking out over-confident belligerent pathogens
which place too much faith in god and guns...


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