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BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

The Sandman 02 Feb 21 - 06:04 AM
Jos 02 Feb 21 - 04:46 AM
The Sandman 02 Feb 21 - 03:26 AM
The Sandman 02 Feb 21 - 03:24 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 09:42 PM
punkfolkrocker 01 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM
robomatic 01 Feb 21 - 08:51 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 08:42 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 07:50 PM
Donuel 01 Feb 21 - 06:37 PM
punkfolkrocker 01 Feb 21 - 01:13 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 12:59 PM
Doug Chadwick 01 Feb 21 - 12:31 PM
Mrrzy 01 Feb 21 - 12:24 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 12:19 PM
Donuel 01 Feb 21 - 12:02 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 11:52 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 11:38 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Feb 21 - 11:24 AM
Stilly River Sage 01 Feb 21 - 11:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 01 Feb 21 - 08:24 AM
Doug Chadwick 01 Feb 21 - 07:52 AM
Steve Shaw 31 Jan 21 - 07:11 PM
Allan Conn 31 Jan 21 - 06:42 PM
Senoufou 31 Jan 21 - 04:19 PM
Doug Chadwick 31 Jan 21 - 04:00 PM
Senoufou 31 Jan 21 - 03:45 PM
Steve Shaw 31 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM
Senoufou 31 Jan 21 - 01:49 PM
Donuel 31 Jan 21 - 10:52 AM
Thompson 30 Jan 21 - 05:52 PM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jan 21 - 11:40 AM
Donuel 30 Jan 21 - 11:17 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 Jan 21 - 09:56 AM
Bonzo3legs 29 Jan 21 - 10:27 AM
Donuel 29 Jan 21 - 10:19 AM
Mrrzy 24 Jan 21 - 09:23 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Jan 21 - 10:59 AM
pattyClink 20 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM
The Sandman 19 Jan 21 - 04:22 AM
Stilly River Sage 15 Jan 21 - 05:56 PM
Mrrzy 15 Jan 21 - 05:28 PM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 12:44 PM
Thompson 15 Jan 21 - 11:20 AM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM
keberoxu 12 Jan 21 - 05:33 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Jan 21 - 06:36 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Jan 21 - 05:53 PM
Rain Dog 06 Jan 21 - 02:36 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 06:04 AM

td is the irish equivalent of MP.What does TD mean in Ireland?
Teachta Dála
Deputy. Member of the Dáil; also known as a TD (Teachta Dála) Dáil Éireann. The Lower House of the Oireachtas; known as the Dáil for short. Dissolution.Jun 18, 2019


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 04:46 AM

TD?

I've done an internet search, and looked down through fifty threads, but perhaps it was in a post that has been deleted. Could be 'truth denier' I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 03:26 AM

.But the fact health services have been run down and cannot cope with a pandemic is the fault of those who govern us.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 03:24 AM

Why should anyone shut up , fortunately we have free speech and we are also free to ignore others comments, and make our own decisions.
Further more i do not think a TD should be sacked for saying the virus is no worse than the flu. I may disagree with him or i may not ,but starting to sack people for having a different opinion is a step towards Fascism and Totalitarinism, People are turning on each other .But the fact health services have been run down and cannot cope with … See more


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:42 PM

Alleluia, Scrumpyshire bro...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM

"Your comic relief is tolerated pfr but your contribution to pandemic relief is poor or absent."

That's an improvement..

Please try to continue restraining yourself to quickly read and discounted
snappy one-liners like this..


Btw.. when you invent a proven to work miracle cure for covid,
then you might have earned the right to posture
as the superior 'Big I Am' of pandemic relief..

However, until then you are no more important here then any other BS poster
with a keyboard and an arse to sit on...

Also remember many more folks are much closer to death on the front line than you are..

Key workers and their families live in real daily fear..

For us, this is not just an intellectual academic game
for scoring ego points against forum rivals.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM

I think that what you say about Dr Fauci chimes very well with the general tenor of my BBC piece. "Experts" are frequently derided, and often, when invoked generically, are the victims of weasel wordery, but in this pandemic we have really needed the real experts to calm us all down. They do that best by telling us how little we actually know so far and by being measured in their cautions to us. What we don't need is scary non-experts, who abound, who think they own the truth when in reality they simply want to make themselves stand out from the worried crowd, ending up worrying the crowd even more - if we let them...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 08:51 PM

Considering the title of this thread is specifically related to 'news' it invites folks to reproduce within thread things that pass for news. Unfortunately 'news' is not facts.

Two quotes, one by a famous guy, one not:

In a documentary about himself and his life, physicist Richard Feynman said: "I know how hard it is to actually KNOW something."

And this guy I knew who was a project runner on the Alaska Pipeline was being briefed while walking through a facility and remarked to the guy: "Is this relevant or is it just information?"

Listening to Dr. Fauci I am constantly reminded that the experts and researchers on the frontiers of medicine are still learning about this particular incarnation of coronavirus. That means the reactions and treatments of the disease are also subject to change including the vaccines. To date Dr. Fauci has been consistent to get vaccinated because that limits transmission and transmission limits the spread of mutations in the virus.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 08:42 PM

Apropos of the effectiveness of the various vaccines against new variants, here's what the Health Editor of BBC News Online posted today. Not the last word, just a single source, but far more sober, sane and balanced than some of the more hysterical stuff flying around. Please hang on the words and reflect that I've refrained from highlighting what I thought are the most germane points (I was tempted, but we can all read).

I'd also add that vaccines that appear to lose efficacy can relatively easily be tweaked in a fairly short time. No panic, no amateur dramatics needed, just patience and intelligent concern. Once we've had the vaccine we should thank a scientist, and a good way of doing that is to show enough respect to look their stuff up before sounding off with sweeping statements and flailing around in all directions.

All viruses, including the one that causes Covid-19, constantly mutate into new versions or variants.

These tiny genetic changes happen as the virus makes new copies of itself to spread and thrive.

Most are inconsequential, and a few can even be harmful to the virus's survival, but some variants can make the virus more infectious or threatening to the host - humans.

There are now many thousands of variants of the pandemic virus circulating. But experts are concerned about the South African variant, or 501.V2.

Is it more dangerous?
There is no evidence that the South Africa variant causes more serious illness for the vast majority of people who become infected.

As with the original version, the risk is highest for people who are elderly or have significant underlying health conditions.

But there are concerns it can spread more readily and vaccines may not work quite as well against it.

What do experts say?
The South African variant carries a mutation called E484K, among others.

It's different to the recently discovered UK or Kent variant that scientists have also been studying in the UK.

Both variants appear to be more contagious, which is a problem because tougher restrictions on society may be needed to control the spread.

While changes in the new UK variant are unlikely to harm the effectiveness of current vaccines, there is a chance those in the South African variant may do so to some extent, say scientists.

It is too soon to say for sure, or by how much, until more tests are completed, although it is extremely unlikely the mutations would render vaccines useless.

Scientists have tested the Pfizer Covid vaccine against one of the mutations found in the South African variant, called N501Y, using blood samples from 20 people.

In that preliminary study, vaccination appeared to work against the mutated virus.

More studies are needed though.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 07:50 PM

The third Mumsnet "Tom" thread was duly deleted but there's yet another one running now. There's a lot of unjustified speculation about the holiday he took in December and about his family and what's happening to him in hospital, though there a lot of holding-back going on that wasn't there before. I think we can do better.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 06:37 PM

Your comic relief is tolerated pfr but your contribution to pandemic relief is poor or absent.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 01:13 PM

"Which would you prefer:
To never read my words again.
OR
Be pain free from all your conditions for the rest of your life.
"

I'd prefer you to be more disciplined & considerate,
and resist persistently swamping serious threads
with your excessive egotistical indulgences.

It's tiresome having to wade through it all
every time I find a few spare minutes
to catch up on these debates..

Try better at communicating your points more concisely...

Not every thread needs to be "The Donuel Show"...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:59 PM

No I can't. The two earlier threads were deleted, but I was able to see the first couple of lines of a few posts when I googled as I told you, which were indicating, or criticising, speculation about him and his vaccine. Maybe you could try that, or maybe it's too late. The third thread, which I've read but which is now being deleted *as I understand it), avoided mention of the vaccine (maybe because there was so much dispute in the first two threads, who knows, and that it is now clear that the efficacy of the vaccine is irrelevant to discussions about Tom).

Here's the Mumsnet HQ message that announced the deletion of the third thread:

" YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet (MNHQ)    Mon 01-Feb-21 17:30:33

Hello everyone. We are getting a lot of reports about this thread. As several posts have been deleted and many more are continuing to break our Talk Guidelines, we have decided to delete it now as it's really not making anyone look good at this stage."

I completely agree with that sentiment. I've said more than once that speculation put up as fact, sweeping statements and scaremongering in discussions about coronavirus are not only harmful but they also bring this website into disrepute. "Not making anyone look good," right?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:31 PM

I am surprised that you see that as 'attack mode', Steve.

I tried Googling "Mumsnet Captain Tom Vaccination" but all I got was an opening page with a couple of messages wishing him well and subsequent pages, each with a message saying that the thread had been deleted. The message acknowledged that the majority of posters were wishing him well, but said that posts speculating on his health or other aspects did not seem to be in the spirit of the site right now.

There was nothing that I could find that told me anything about discussion on the effectiveness of the vaccine. Perhaps you could provide a link?

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:24 PM

Ok interesting article here on Australia&s response. My Tazzie sister's life is normal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/world/australia/perth-lockdown.html

Blicky.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:19 PM

I'm interested in facts. On this topic it's vital that we avoid propagating misinformation in the guise of facts. And if we don't yet know all the facts to sufficiently support a claim, then that claim should remain under wraps. If we post speculation we should be crystal clear with our caveats that we are indeed posting speculation. It also helps if we can stay cool.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:02 PM

So Steve you are not interested in truth as much as condeming my sentences. I am in favor of your freedom but not when you attack truth. For that, a hard rains a gonna fall.
If your goal is to hurt me, its never gonna happen. (unless you visit)
Which would you prefer:
To never read my words again.
OR
Be pain free from all your conditions for the rest of your life.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:52 AM

And I've said this before and I'll say it again. Jumping on snippets of "information," especially those coming from journalists who are after scoops, taking them out of context and sounding alarms, is a practice that's rife all over the internet and we should squash it firmly when it rears its ugly head on Mudcat. The work on the efficacy of all the current vaccines in the face of variants of the virus is ongoing and is in its infancy still, relatively speaking. It takes time to amass sufficient field data on this, and some of the vaccines are hardly out of the starting block, and some of the variants are very new, or at least newly-discovered. We need to to be patient and we need to be sceptical about sources until we have checked, checked and checked again. Sweeping statements about vaccines (plural) being less effective, etc., of the kind we've seen here say a lot more about their propagators than they do about the science.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:38 AM

Well, Doug, the Mumsnet thread was deleted with a message from headquarters that a thread speculating about Captain Tom is inappropriate. But you can read enough from the results from googling "Mumsnet Captain Tom Vaccination" to see that there was indeed much misinformation and unwarranted speculation going on, with implications that the vaccine (which he hadn't had) was ineffective. Always worth a double-check before adopting attack mode.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:24 AM

Maggie, please read his completely unqualified sentence again. Not for the first time your criticism of me is out of order.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:11 AM


"Varients do have changed binding sites that makes original vaccines less effective."

This is fake news. You absolutely have to STOP doing this.


Sorry, Steve, but if you've been listening to people talk about how the vaccine evolves, that is exactly what is happening. The way these things bind, the part of the virus shell that does this part, has changed, making them "stickier" and harder to eradicate with a vaccine or various treatments so far attempted. And it means several of the vaccines (Johnson & Johnson, in particular) are less effective.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 08:24 AM

My take on Capt. Tom becoming infected,
is that even at his level of importance, frailty, and protection,
someone has been too bloody careless...???

Is a hasty investigation being conducted...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 07:52 AM

..... that some git on Mumsnet is implying that the vaccine doesn't work because Capt.Tom has been vaccinated but still got infected.


Be careful, Steve, that you you don't fall in to the trap yourself, of reading what you want to read rather than what is actually written. A poster here repeated a piece of misinformation, taken from Mumsnet, that Capt. Sir Tom had been vaccinated. The conclusion that

"..... that one can still contract the virus after having the jab"

May have come from Mumsnet but, equally, may have Senoufou's own opinion.

Wherever that conclusion came from, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is implying that the vaccine doesn't work. It may have been expressing a note of caution that, since none of the vaccines claim to be 100% effective, vaccination does not make us invincible and that mask/distance/hygiene precautions should still be followed.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:11 PM

Yeah, right, Sen, misinformed. Well done for clearing that one up. Here's the thing with me that pisses me off bigtime. There are two lots of people living round here near me, good friends for donkeys' years, who I like a lot, who suck in this kind of blatant misinformation and for whom it is bias confirmation, as they are already readily susceptible to conspiracy theories. They are easy and gullible recipients and the misinformation fed to them is put out lazily and with no evidence to support it. On the other hand, we who have to counter this nonsense have to work so bloody hard to dig out the evidence in order to be persuasive enough to negate it. It is not a level playing field. What I'm saying, for example, is that some git on Mumsnet is implying that the vaccine doesn't work because Capt.Tom has been vaccinated but still got infected. Fake news. We have someone here saying that vaccines are less effective against new variants (I tried to spell that last word correctly). Fake news. I'm getting bloody sick of it, to be honest. I'm biased because I have that stupid uphill battle with the nice people round here who I know. But please let's not see Mudcat get infested with this stuff. Please?

And best wishes to the admirable Capt. Tom, a man I admire greatly.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 06:42 PM

Also depends when he was vaccinated? It doesn't give you instant protection. The protection builds over a couple of weeks or so. So I take it someone who only got the vaccine say a few days ago would be susceptible. Plus of course the efficacy is not 100% in any of the vaccines.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 04:19 PM

Ooops Doug, you're quite right, he hadn't received the vaccination. My mistake. I read it on Mumsnet, but the poster must have been misinformed.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 04:00 PM

I've just learned that Captain (SIR!) Tom Moore was actually vaccinated,


The BBC are reporting that he had not yet received the vaccine because of the medication he was on for pneumonia. He is not in intensive care so, hopefully, he may recover.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 03:45 PM

I've just learned that Captain (SIR!) Tom Moore was actually vaccinated, which goes to show that one can still contract the virus after having the jab. Hopefully however this may make his illness less severe.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM

"Varients do have changed binding sites that makes original vaccines less effective."

This is fake news. You absolutely have to STOP doing this.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 01:49 PM

Captain Tom Moore now has Covid. He was admitted to hospital with pneumonia, and a few days later it was confirmed he now has Covid too.
The man is 100, and was knighted by the Queen for his indomitable efforts to walk around his residence to raise money for the NHS.
So ironic.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 10:52 AM

Science by press release is not science. But its all most of us have.
Varients do have changed binding sites that makes original vaccines less effective.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 05:52 PM

pattyClink - While ventilation is important, another factor that's recently been recognised is that humidity is death to the little scamps. Don't let your home get too dried out. (I don't know how to measure humidity, unfortunately, but reckon that giving the washing a final dry on racks and radiators probably helps.)
bonzo3legs - Sympathies for the greyhound. I used to have a dog that had big trouble with eczema and it turned out to be mainly triggered by milk. My current adored-one gets diarrhoea from milk.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 11:40 AM

Donny - Life is too stressful;
and spare time is too limited
to be wasted constantly trying to make sense of your lengthy self indulgent posts...

Please try to communicate more effectively,
with consideration for any of us struggling
to search for the meaningful gems in your stream of consciousness drivel...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 11:17 AM

Thats the spirit Nigel - not that you can agree with me BUT that a truthful post regarding scientific findings, unencumbered with political spin or orthodox dogma, can be more helpful than believing a convenient lie.
Orthodoxy is a finding plus excessive time. Its time to take a critical look at all the facts assembled over a year. Critical thinking is easy when you don't care how it reflects on us or feel any need to sugar coat a damn thing.

Perhaps you even looked up the evolutionary virologist scientists I mentioned earlier.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 09:56 AM

Donuel:
They also have found that covid 19 is 90% likely to be lab produced and from a scientific point of view was never a conspiracy theory but a reasoned finding
We can only guess at your 'sources' (if any) as you provide no links.
However:
A research paper claiming to prove that the coronavirus was cooked up in a laboratory has been widely dismissed by mainstream scientists.

The paper, which was posted online earlier this week and hasn’t been peer reviewed, says that “unusual features” of the virus’s genome suggest “sophisticated laboratory modification rather than natural evolution”. The authors allege that the modification of one or more bat viruses was carried out in a Chinese government laboratory in Wuhan.

From New Scientist, September 2020



This response to several now-deleted COVID-19 conspiracy theory posts and responses is left because it provides a useful link. ---mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 10:27 AM

Mrs Bonzo had the Oxford jab this afternoon, and also a nice little outing in the back of the car for our greyhound who is housebound at the moment with a nasty skin infection - rear left leg heavily bandaged and she has to wear a big cone to prevent licking the bandage.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 10:19 AM

Attack of the varient viral mutants VVM is well underway.
The great city of London is now added to apoint of origin story like Wuhan. Maybe in came from Feltwell in Norwich or Gravesend
Some doctors are more concerned about the English varient than all the others. My question is will the new varients continue like the flu on an ongoing annual basis?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 09:23 AM

I already read it was.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:59 AM

There are a lot of individual obituary threads for musical people who have died of COVID-19. One non-musical but very well known, at least in the US, is talk show host Larry King.

    Larry King, the longtime CNN host who became an icon through his interviews with countless newsmakers and his sartorial sensibilities, has died. He was 87.

    His son, Chance, confirmed King's death Saturday morning.

    King hosted "Larry King Live" on CNN for over 25 years, interviewing presidential candidates, celebrities, athletes, movie stars and everyday people. He retired in 2010 after taping more than 6,000 episodes of the show.

    A statement was posted on his verified Facebook announcing his passing.

    "With profound sadness, Ora Media announces the death of our co-founder, host and friend Larry King, who passed away this morning at age 87 at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles," the statement said. "For 63 years and across the platforms of radio, television and digital media, Larry's many thousands of interviews, awards, and global acclaim stand as a testament to his unique and lasting talent as a broadcaster."

    The statement did not give a cause of death.


He was hospitalized and in the ICU in recent days, but he had a number of health issues over the years. I suspect the conclusion will be that his death was COVID-related.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: pattyClink
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM

Thanks, Sandman. I'm seeing a lot of people not 'getting' that ventilation is a really big deal; busy scrubbing doorhandles and taking their temp, while foraying into poorly ventilated indoor venues where the virus is lurking. Next issue, we have no process to 'rate' buildings as to their safety.


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Subject: RE: De-clutter & Fitness in a Pandemic: 2021
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 04:22 AM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rcnl d
Irish Times
ventilation is key to stopping the spread of Covid-19
Clean air far more important than clean hands
Thu, Oct 8, 2020, 00:55
Orla Hegarty


Covid-19 has meant hard choices and serious consequences, with an escalation in restrictions and enforcement. But, if the rules aren’t being effective, could the rules be wrong? Last week the HSE gave a briefing about recent outbreaks. One case resulted in the infection of four restaurant staff and six people at another table; another cluster involved 14 of 27 students in a class. It was confirmed that Nphet guidelines were being followed, but when asked how this could have happened the HSE response was that “this virus is very unpredictable”.

This week there are 31 outbreaks in nursing homes and 25 in communities where people live in close proximity. A cluster from a cafe in Cork resulted in 57 infections; and of the 28,000 cases nationally up to the end of August, more than one in 20 were workers in meat plants.

All of these outbreaks follow very similar patterns to other countries and they all happen where crowds gather in very specific conditions – indoors in poor ventilation.

What is sidestepped in public health advice is that “super-spread events” are clear-cut and can be prevented. “Super-spread” is defined as an occasion where five people or more become infected, and up to 97 per cent happen indoors, according to research from Japan.
High-risk conditions

Moreover, just 10-20 per cent of those carrying Covid may be causing 80 per cent of new infections and it happens in known high-risk conditions. So, public health advice to “halve all contacts” is unlikely to halve the new cases when the majority of contacts are low-risk and where these known super-spread conditions are permitted, even at Level 5. Evidently, targeted prevention in specific locations is the only way to significantly reduce new cases.

In Ireland, a drop in cases coincided with warmer temperatures when activity moved outside and buildings were ventilated freely. Recent household infections have been attributed to people disregarding the rules, but perhaps it was the weather that changed rather than their behaviour? In the absence of public health warnings, most people are simply unaware that opening windows can reduce or eliminate the virus spread in their homes and cars.

Conversely, in meat plants ventilation is reduced in summer when air is recirculated to operate at 10 degrees. Research from Germany confirms that airborne virus in these conditions infected workers as far as 8m apart. At another super-spread event in Washington, one person at a choir practice infected 52 of 61 others, two of whom died. Increasing ventilation and shortening the event would likely have halved the infections. It is known that singing, shouting, exercising and even talking can increase the virus in the air.


Spread is airborne

It is now believed, from these and other cases, that most spread is airborne, that there is no safe distance in a poorly ventilated room and that conditions can move from low- to high-risk within 15 minutes.

Recent research spans environmental engineering, particle physics and virology and points back to how Ireland beat tuberculosis with space, sunlight and fresh air. In the last century disease – Spanish Flu and TB – changed the way that buildings were designed and it will again now.

Yet, while international research is providing answers, we still have “rules of thumb” for two-metre distancing and two-hour duration, now understood to be unsafe oversimplification. Without a science-base, these rules are resulting in unknowing high-risk behaviour on the one hand, and unnecessary social isolation and business closures on the other.
Higher indoors

All along, building ventilation has been hiding in plain sight in different rules for indoors and out. Covid-19 is a respiratory virus, it is caught from breathing. In the open air, the virus is diluted and dispersed in the air, but inside, aerosols, the particles small enough to remain in the air, can linger, spread and build up to dangerous levels, similar to cigarette smoke. Ventilation is key to prevention because the risk of breathing in Covid-19 is 20 times higher indoors.

Air quality in buildings can be measured, managed and monitored, so improving ventilation reduces or eliminates these risks.

Active and targeted prevention of specific high-risk conditions, such as in meat plants, direct provision, overcrowded housing and schools is key to both keeping buildings open and people out of hospital, without compromising the health services or the economy.

Last February, Japan identified ventilation as critically important to preventing conditions for super-spread. Public health advised avoiding the 3 Cs “closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings”. With a population of 126 million, the total number of deaths from Covid-19 in Japan is just 1,578 which is lower than in Ireland with a population of five million, with 1,806 mortalities.
Critical weapon

Comparisons between countries, are very difficult but the arguments in favour of ventilation as a critical weapon are compelling, and now confirmed by public health advice in other countries. What will it cost in lives and businesses for Ireland to wait for more proof, particularly when fresh air is free?

The HSE is soon to employ 500 contact-tracers to track future Covid-19 patients, asking where they went and who they met. But, how many people are employed to look at our houses and buildings to prevent tens of thousands of people becoming infected in the first place?

Escalation of this pandemic is not inevitable. Science-based rules, targeted public health advice, risk assessments and enforcement are critical now, not loose rules of thumb.

There is little cost in moving outside, spreading out into safer rooms, avoiding crowds, re-setting ventilation systems, and opening windows.

Clean air is far more important than clean hands.

Orla Hegarty is assistant professor at the School of Architecture UCD


R


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:56 PM

It belongs in the Trump era news, for one. But it's good news wherever one reads it!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:28 PM

Does the NRA going bankrupt belong in this or the Not About The Virus new news thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:44 PM

We are told to anticipate 90,000 new deaths over the next 3 weeks.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:20 AM

Ireland, having had the second-best figures in the world for months, allowed everyone to come home and go out and socialise over Christmas, and now has the second-worst figures in the world. People are absolutely raging, those of use who are not in hospital.
Here's the graph of what our outbreak looks like (today anyway; the graph may change in time on the website as it doesn't seem to be dated).


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM

Life insurance is SNAFU due to virus
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/covid-unknowns-leave-survivors-fearing-life-insurance-rejection


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Subject: positive update on Marianne Faithfull
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 05:33 PM

The interview in Mojo magazine is obviously from months back,
as is usual with periodicals like this one.
I got a look at a copy on a newsstand today,
but the interview goes back to the last calendar year.


"She Walks In Beauty" is going to be her latest record album,
a tribute to the English Romantic poets.
Marianne Faithfull is still mourning the loss of
producer Hal Willner.
Like her, he contracted COVID-19;
unlike her, he did not recover, and died last year.

Faithfull made the recording after being released from hospital.
COVID-19's immediate effects
were the loss of short-term memory, lung function, and her voice.

She stated in the update interview
that her lungs were very badly affected,
but that they are healing now,
adding,
"My short-term memory is affected.
But I'm told that when you have coronavirus as badly as I did, that happens.
But your memory comes back,
and mine is coming back.
And my lungs are coming back too.
I've made a beautiful record."


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:36 PM

One supposed lockdown too many there. Oops...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:53 PM

My surmise is that the new variant IS more transmissible, and I haven't said that it isn't. But someone here has put an arbitrary figure of "70% more contagious" which was a rehashed comment made by one quasi-maverick bloke in the UK and which is a claim bereft of evidence. The responsible thing is to base our opinions on credible facts. It is not responsible to jump on a titbit of a unsupported comment made by one person and use it to tell people of more measured opinion that they are pretending. That's all. And there's no need for you to disagree. I'd be quite happy to be wrong.

The infection rate here has burgeoned. It is a cold winter. Ten million people in London and around were in an ineffective tier until not long before Christmas. The government failed to call a firebreak at the October half term. Instead, we had a panic-stricken December lockdown...in which schools were allowed to stay open, fer chrissake. Secondary schools in particular are known to be virus pits. All through the autumn, people from the most infected areas were allowed to go on holiday in droves. Here in Cornwall, where rates have been low, we were swamped with tourists from the biggest and most infected urban areas right up to the beginning of November. It was actually phenomenal. Round here today, the roads are as busy as ever. In the March lockdown, in contrast, there was no traffic. Yesterday, in a supposed lockdown, in a three-mile drive from Bude to my house, I saw five motor homes and a camper van, on the first day of a supposed lockdown, and the locals round here can tell you of second homes still occupied.

Yes there is a variant that may be - probably is - more transmissible. That variant first exploded into action in London and around, a big crowded city that was still enjoying it pub and cafe culture. But when you're trying to get your head around the parlous state the country is in, to use "a more transmissible variant" as the exclusive explanation as to why we have so many infections is just what this benighted government wants you to think. Nice way of diverting the blame away from them. In all probability, it is just one factor among all the others I've just listed. Let's not be taken in, and let's go with all the caveats that you can pick out in this post, if you bother to look.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 02:36 PM

Over a 1000 covid related deaths announced today in the UK. Highest daily rate since April

Surrey and Sussex hospitals declare major incident due to large number of covid patients being treated.

Heard today that vaccine will start to be issued here in Dover and Deal from week starting 11th January.


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