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BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

Allan Conn 06 Jan 22 - 02:59 AM
Allan Conn 06 Jan 22 - 02:38 AM
Stilly River Sage 05 Jan 22 - 09:50 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Jan 22 - 08:48 PM
Donuel 05 Jan 22 - 06:39 PM
Stilly River Sage 05 Jan 22 - 03:11 PM
Donuel 05 Jan 22 - 09:29 AM
Mrrzy 04 Jan 22 - 06:49 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jan 22 - 01:15 PM
Stilly River Sage 04 Jan 22 - 12:10 PM
Donuel 04 Jan 22 - 11:23 AM
Donuel 04 Jan 22 - 09:31 AM
Sandra in Sydney 04 Jan 22 - 09:07 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Jan 22 - 08:56 AM
Stilly River Sage 02 Jan 22 - 03:26 PM
Donuel 30 Dec 21 - 06:59 AM
Donuel 30 Dec 21 - 06:56 AM
Nigel Parsons 30 Dec 21 - 06:53 AM
Steve Shaw 29 Dec 21 - 06:57 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Dec 21 - 06:25 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Dec 21 - 05:03 PM
Donuel 29 Dec 21 - 02:24 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Dec 21 - 01:02 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Dec 21 - 07:43 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Dec 21 - 11:21 AM
Donuel 26 Dec 21 - 08:50 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Dec 21 - 09:38 AM
Rain Dog 24 Dec 21 - 08:59 AM
Rain Dog 24 Dec 21 - 08:46 AM
Nigel Parsons 24 Dec 21 - 06:34 AM
Donuel 24 Dec 21 - 06:30 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Dec 21 - 03:21 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Dec 21 - 03:56 PM
Dave the Gnome 23 Dec 21 - 11:54 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Dec 21 - 11:20 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Dec 21 - 10:46 AM
Donuel 23 Dec 21 - 10:29 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Dec 21 - 08:22 AM
Donuel 23 Dec 21 - 06:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Dec 21 - 02:58 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Dec 21 - 08:08 PM
Donuel 22 Dec 21 - 07:46 PM
Nigel Parsons 22 Dec 21 - 02:40 PM
Donuel 22 Dec 21 - 01:23 PM
Donuel 21 Dec 21 - 12:18 PM
Donuel 21 Dec 21 - 10:10 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Dec 21 - 08:04 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Dec 21 - 06:43 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Dec 21 - 05:46 PM
Mrrzy 20 Dec 21 - 04:44 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 02:59 AM

The daily reported cases are an under-reporting and that is stated on the media. Here in the Office For National Statistics carries out a weekly general survey which is reported widely and this always gives a much higher rate of infection which will be nearer the correct figure. The latest figures are below. Estimated rate in England is one in fifteen people have the virus.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infect


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 02:38 AM

The idea of reporting all cases I suppose is so that they get an idea of what % are testing positive. Hence the daily figures give you a % of what tests are positive. It helps them with knowing what is going on. So the instructions on the box ask you to report all results whether positive or negative or even if it is a non result.

I imagine they know very well that lots of people just take the test and don't bother reporting it unless it is positive which I suppose is the main thing.

If positive then of course they want to know so that they can contact anyone you have been in close contact with in the preceding days. Up until this week if testing positive then you were supposed to then book a PCR test.

Once registered on the site for the lateral flow test reporting it is actually a very quick process to report test results. Though it does seem to confuse some folk. One of our club members reckons it took him two and a half hours and that he had to register on several sites. Whereas it took my 5 or 10 minutes to register and it is only one site. I suspect because he is in Scotland he thought he needed to register on the NHS Scotland site too - but the instructions on the site are pretty clear that you only do that if you are an NHS or care worker or visiting a care home. Everyone else is redirected to the same shared UK site.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 09:50 PM

Too bad you're not cooperating - that could help the government with the contact tracing it needs to do to figure out what is going on in your neighborhood. You should reconsider.

I fill out an online survey every week or two. It's anonymous, narrows down to my zip code for location. And if I am asked or need to take and report at test, I will. Because it's better for my whole community if I do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 08:48 PM

Well we struck early and obtained a good stash of lateral flow test kits. So far, no positives. But I hear that the government is desperate for us to report all results. Well I'm not going to be doing that. I know what to do if I'm unwell or if I test positive at home. I wouldn't dream of putting myself out and about knowing that I had the thing. I'll monitor myself and police myself, thanks. I don't need a government to be telling me what to do. I need a government to fill the potholes and fix our rotting school buildings.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 06:39 PM

Compared to this time last year, deaths from Covid are waaay down.
It really looks like a flu shot AND a covid shot every winter will be the way smart people stay healthy depending on emergent varients.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 03:11 PM

According to a report this morning on my Texas public radio station, the "normal" positive rate in COVID tests administered throughout the year (since they have been in place for general access) is around 11%. During the last big COVID surge that level was up to about 22%. Right now in Texas they are seeing a rate of 34% of tests are coming back positive.

There are several regions of the state with ICUs at 100% and they're going to have to start triaging patients (or moving them long distances).


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 09:29 AM

Holy Cross hospital in town has closed its Pediatic Intensive Care Unit PICU to kids and are filling it with adults. Kids with Covid are going to NICU. There ought to be a SICU - super infectious care unit. :+o
But...Deaths are slightly down.

Testing and quarantine protocols are screwed up now but I don't blame CDC.
In fast and furious times like these it is unlikely to ever get ahead of variants.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jan 22 - 06:49 PM

Likely way underreported, I agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 22 - 01:15 PM

We have over 200,000 reported infections in a day. As our population is about a fifth of yours, that makes us about equal. Note the word "reported." Because this is a milder disease, and because most of us have been jabbed, there's bound to be massive under-reporting of infections. If a third of people don't know they have it, and children just get a bit sniffly as they do every winter, and lots of people with mild symptoms won't report, it could be that the reported numbers could be underestimates by a massive amount. That could be good news as it means that the virus may soon have nowhere to go. Of course, a new variant could scuttle any early optimism.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 22 - 12:10 PM

U.S. Covid-19 Infections Top One Million After Holiday Backlog
States report backlogs of cases after pausing for the New Year holiday

That's from the Wall Street Journal so you may hit a paywall. Here is some of it:
More than one million new Covid-19 infections were reported in the U.S. as global health officials scrambled to increase measures to counter the fast-spreading Omicron variant.

The U.S. reported a record 1.08 million Covid-19 infections on Monday as most states worked to clear backlogs after pausing during the New Year’s holiday. The reports pushed the seven-day average of daily reported infections to 480,273, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of Johns Hopkins University data. That level is nearly double the peak reached at the height of last winter’s case surge.

Hospitalizations for confirmed or suspected Covid-19 cases reached a seven-day average of 97,855 on Monday, according to data posted by the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services. That is up 41% in the past two weeks but below both the pandemic peak of 137,510 on Jan. 10, 2021, and the smaller peak of 102,967 on Sept. 4, 2021, during the Delta-variant surge. While Covid-19 tests remain in short supply in much of the U.S., testing was less robust last year, complicating comparisons between pandemic surges.

Six states aren't included in those numbers, most of those overwhelmed by the numbers.

"The U.S. seven-day average of daily reported Covid-19 deaths was 1,236 on Monday, according to Johns Hopkins data." This is "relatively unchanged" - for now. Reports of deaths "tend to lag," so the death numbers will be more accurate in a few weeks looking back at this time.

This is just the US - but that article goes on to point out that Europe has also been clobbered.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 22 - 11:23 AM

Other possible good news is that Omicron does not infect lung cells aggressively in the vaccinated and leaves no lung scaring among the sinus infected.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 22 - 09:31 AM

Delta makes no antibodies for Omicron but Omicron makes a few antibodies against Delta. ???
Its darkest before dawn when you step on the cat. :^/
I didn't, but absent any mice the cats are leaving my socks all over as evidence of their hunting prowess.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 04 Jan 22 - 09:07 AM

meanwhile in Australia - ‘A shambolic mess’: the only example Australia is giving the world now is how not to manage Covid, by Dr Kerryn Phelps. We thought the government would develop a Covid strategy for post-lockdown life. Instead, they have chosen to ‘let it rip’ Where did it all go wrong?

How did Australia go from being the envy of the world with our best practice public health measures, low case numbers, a prepared health system and an economy ticking along nicely to what can only be described as a shambolic mess?

... With the new New South Wales premier, Dominic Perrottet, in charge, the chief health officer Kerry Chant was sidelined as the new policy to “let it rip” was rolled out ... In one previously unimaginable act, the premier, in a double act with (Prime Minister) Scott Morrison, announced a lifting of all restrictions including mandatory mask wearing and QR code check-ins.

Despite the warnings that the health system was under pressure and that party season was about to kick off, the message to the community was: “Go out there and spend, head to the pub and get back to normal.”

... As the holiday period approached, many testing facilities would be closed down with little warning, leading to queues stretching for kilometres and waiting times blowing out to hours. In some cases, ill people waited in their cars overnight. Results were taking five or six days to be reported.

... We were all told to go and get rapid antigen tests (RATs). The government resisted providing the tests for free as the UK had done, with Morrison saying he “did not want to undercut businesses”.
When a journalist specifically put to him that “not everyone can afford rapid antigen tests”, the PM casually replied: “Some people can, some people can’t.”
In another throwaway comment that will not age well, he said: “We’re at a stage of the pandemic where you just can’t make everything free.”

... The minimalist approach to pandemic control has hurt businesses more than it has helped, with many cancellations at restaurants and hospitality venues. Supermarkets are now struggling with supplies because employees at every stage of the supply chain are becoming ill. (read on)

covid testing queues & delayed results
=======
My cousin is a manager of a pathology unit in a large hospital & like all her colleagues in the medical world across Australia is overworked & stressed trying to deal with staff absences & massive volumes of tests. Our plan was to meet up after Christmas ...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jan 22 - 08:56 AM

The majority of people in intensive care have not been vaccinated or boosted, so it's largely their own fault.............................ah I'm forgetting - they haven't been taking vitamin D capsules
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 22 - 03:26 PM

Omicron is spreading at lightning speed. Scientists are trying to figure out why

So far, omicron's best trick — what helps explain its success more than anything else — is dodging our immunity: the antibodies and other immune defenses put on by the body after vaccination and/or prior infection.

The variant's many mutations on the spike protein allow it to infect human cells more efficiently than previous variants could, leaving many more people again vulnerable. Because of that, "immune escape" alone could be the major reason why the variant looks so contagious compared with delta, which was already highly transmissible.

In fact, omicron has been spreading at a pace that's comparable to how fast the original strain of the coronavirus spread at the very beginning of the pandemic, despite the world's newfound levels of immunity.

"The playing field for the virus right now is quite different than it was in the early days," says Dr. Joshua Schiffer, an infectious disease researcher at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. "The majority of variants we've seen to date couldn't survive in this immune environment."


and this, further down in the essay:

With so many mutations, it's still quite possible that omicron does have additional advantages that make it more contagious than other variants — advantages that rely on more than breaking through our prior immunity.

Maybe omicron can produce more copies of itself in a cell? Or maybe it sticks to cells more effectively? Or maybe it's better at hanging in the air and staying infectious?

"Any of those things would make the virus more contagious," says Schiffer of Fred Hutchinson.

One key difference emerging with omicron is just how quickly someone who gets infected becomes contagious.

Omicron appears to have a shorter incubation period and that can substantially speed up infections across the population. A study of the Oslo Christmas party outbreak found the incubation period could be about three days, compared with 4.3 days for delta and five days for other variants. A small study from CDC also puts the incubation period at about three days.

"That's actually a fairly significant difference," says Schiffer. This would mean there are many more cycles of infections and less time for people who are exposed to take precautions not to expose others.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 21 - 06:59 AM

Sorry about the accidental double negative.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 21 - 06:56 AM

The most intense viral 'blizzard' is expected for all of January.
Wild and wooly claims are being made including half of child infections having/getting long haul along with hospital staff shortages 20-40% compared to the last surge. Half a million new cases in a day is the most recent report for the US. Such numbers can not be sustained but it hasn't turned around yet. Testing issues along with dire news is producing new policies like not allowing Universities to not allow students off campus to go out on weekends. Mass new year's eve celebrations are being changed. A blowback of some sort can be expected imo. It may be the best of times with new medications but it is the worst of times for some.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Dec 21 - 06:53 AM

Slowly getting used to the terminology, PCR & LFT
I can understand the use of LFT (or of 'Lateral Flow Test'). Looking at the box for the tests the other option for naming would have everyone discussing this as 'plague'.
I'm glad they didn't start calling the 'lateral flow test' the 'Rapid Antigen Test'.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 21 - 06:57 PM

Good to hear it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Dec 21 - 06:25 PM

I just took a quote from the larger page, Steve. You could have probably figured that out, because if they're talking about masks, they're going to also be talking about vaccines.

The county has an aggressive and agile vaccination program - they recently started a vaccine bus operation to literally drive into the neighborhoods where people either can't get out (no transportation) or don't have the time it might take to go somewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 21 - 05:03 PM

Well I note that your county health department has a lot to say about masks but nothing at all about getting vaccinated. Of the one thing that will save us from this, not a word. Boris Johnson is a complete buffoon, but in every one of his public messages he encourages us all to get the booster. The vaccines and the boosters, incontrovertibly, have decimated deaths and hospitalisations. Wear your mask wherever and whenever you like. I wear mine where I'm legally obliged to, end of. There is no scientific evidence that masks are anything more than fiddling round the edges. The lack of balance in your quote is staggering.

Almost all the people in intensive care and/or on ventilators in the UK are unvaccinated. Now that is evidence. On the other hand, we had a maskless summer in 2020 and a virtually maskless one in 2021. In both summers, case rates hit almost rock bottom. As a scientist, I know that I mustn't extrapolate from those obstinate facts, and I won't. But if I'd chosen to, I'd at least have a darn sight more to back me than the mask obsessives ever have.


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Subject: This is not news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 21 - 02:24 PM

The canary in the coal mine right now is South Africa regarding the latest more efficient variant. A future successful variant will make sense in hindsight but predicting what random mutation will or can do is "unpredictable".

"Predicting is hard especially about the future."
quote: Casey Stengle

There is still value in potentialities and likelyhoods. Go for it. I often do. :^/

The scientific method takes longer but works better. If we're guessing...
My guess is that Omicron is neither a blessing or a curse.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Dec 21 - 01:02 PM

To be totally unscientific, I think that the fact that the variant is so catching and so mild will mean that there's a good chance that it will burn out. So many people will catch it and become immune to it (and the vaccines will help) that, within weeks, the virus will have nowhere to go. It may linger for ever in all our communities, but we will, one day, if we're sensible, not exactly laugh it off but at least learn to live, maskless, with it...

The advice from my county health department today:

The C.D.C. has recommended that even vaccinated people should wear a mask in all public indoor places in Tarrant County. This helps protect people who may be particularly vulnerable to the virus and also to prevent spread.

If you feel sick, you should stay home and get tested. If you were in close contact with someone with Covid-19, you should get tested three to five days after exposure. Until you get a negative test result, you can take extra precautions by wearing a mask in indoor public spaces and staying at least six feet apart from other people. If possible, consider also taking these precautions inside your home. If you cannot get tested, it’s safer to take these extra precautions for 14 days after exposure.

If you or someone in your household is older or has other risk factors for severe Covid-19, you may choose to wear a mask in public indoor spaces even when Covid transmission in your area is low. You may also consider upgrading to a close-fitting mask with good filtration, or wearing two close-fitting cloth masks. Regular handwashing also helps prevent the spread of Covid-19 and other diseases.

It's only Wednesday but already three friends' households this week have informed me that they have COVID. I wasn't in contact with any of them, but this is rapidly becoming widespread. It's time to stay close to home for a while.

Dallas County, directly to the east in this conurbation, has declared itself to be Code Red as of today.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Dec 21 - 07:43 PM

Avoid this post if you require solid science, free of whimsy. Evidence-innocent, this is what I think of current developments.

In the UK, the worst prime minister we've ever had by a country mile has "decided" to take no further action on restrictions at least until after New Year.

Well first, he hasn't decided it at all. His "decision" is predicated on two factors. First, his credibility is completely shot because of the exposing of all the parties that he and his lackeys enjoyed last year while the rest of us were locked down. Indeed, over 500 people died on the very day that he and his mates were having an illegal jolly in Number Ten. So there's no way he can "instruct" us to do anything at all. Second, his right-wing backwoodsmen, at least 100 Tory MPs at the last count, are threatening to undermine not just him but also anyone with aspirations to replace him should they back further restrictions.

Well what I think of that is that the right decision has been reached for all the thoroughly wrong reasons. I can't think that telling us not to mix with our families, or to desist from going to pubs, etc., is now going to make the slightest difference any more. This variant is sweeping through us like mad. One in twenty in London have got it. But it's mild, and most of us have been vaccinated. The only problem that's worse than previous problems (and I don't seek to minimise it) is that many workers in the health service and care sector are off work sick. This isn't the time to bash the Tories for their severe neglect of the NHS, but I heard an NHS manager say that a hospital department that lost just two nurses to coronavirus is in serious trouble. Well why is that? Surely our health service should have far more built-in resilience than that. And that is the direct result of the lack of Tory investment in the NHS, the self-same NHS that the Tories opposed the formation of in the 1940s.

To be totally unscientific, I think that the fact that the variant is so catching and so mild will mean that there's a good chance that it will burn out. So many people will catch it and become immune to it (and the vaccines will help) that, within weeks, the virus will have nowhere to go. It may linger for ever in all our communities, but we will, one day, if we're sensible, not exactly laugh it off but at least learn to live, maskless, with it...

End of whimsy. Feel free to shoot.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Dec 21 - 11:21 AM

I heard a part of a story on NPR last week about international travelers at LAX (Los Angeles International in California) arriving at the airport and being offered any of the COVID vaccines if they haven't already had it or the booster if they needed it. No forms, no insurance, just offering the vaccine. Those who were interviewed in the vaccination area at the airport were glad to make use of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Dec 21 - 08:50 AM

Thurgood Marshall Baltimore International Airport had their cadre of men with machine guns dressed in all black on duty and wore no insignias.
They remind me of Putin troops or Isreali security. There were few passengers.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Dec 21 - 09:38 AM

No confusion, Nigel. My vaccination record automatically updates to the regular NHS app that I've had for years (not that confounded covid-19 one that I deleted long ago). I never have to do anything. It's just there. I think that a club, pub, theatre or what have you has the right to ask you show that you've been jabbed before they'll let you in. I'd like to see the government advising but otherwise keeping their big noses out. I want the government to run the schools and hospitals, to get my bin emptied on time and to fill potholes. That sort of thing.

"You don't believe that people should be forced to have the jab."

As with God, I don't do belief. It's my opinion. My view all along has been that persuasion is the best way to get people to take the vaccine and that the government hasn't done anywhere near enough public campaigning to counter the Facebook (et al) nonsense. Including the nonsensical reasons that anti-vaxxers give for refusing the jab. Take them on, but we can't shut them up. We're not quite China running Hong Kong just yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Dec 21 - 08:59 AM

Just found the following on the BBC

The anti-vaccination movement that gripped Victorian England

An interesting read.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Dec 21 - 08:46 AM

"There wouldn't be anywhere near as many refusers were Facebook et al not to exist."

Good to see that you have included 'et al'

What next? Close down the interweb?

You don't believe that people should be forced to have the jab. Does that mean you would allow them to tell others via the interweb why they refused it?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Dec 21 - 06:34 AM

Steve What I think about that is that the government should not be implementing a vaccine passport scheme, or whatever else you want to call it. Let individual institutions make their own rules. If a shop or an event won't let me in without proof of vaccination, I'd defend that to the hilt.

In the absence of a Government backed passport scheme, what would count as 'proof of vaccination'?
You seem to be confusing the Government providing vaccine passports, which can be used in any situation where the business owner requires them, with Government insistence that all businesses (or certain businesses) must require passports.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Dec 21 - 06:30 AM

The 4th BOOSTER shot is being consicered in Isreal.
In some US circles it is established as beneficial after 6 months but we can't get ahead of ourselves is the opposite camp.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Dec 21 - 03:21 AM

I am not as sure about a voluntary scheme. People prove to be easily swayed over and over again. As you pointed out, Trump, Johnson, Brexit...

Same with Faceache. I think they should be as regulated as the press, if not more so. Difficult as it is international but, hey, so is the rest of the media nowadays and they have to abide by the rules.

Careful you don't Spoonerise FaceBookers BTW. Maybe that is the real reason for the change to Meta :-)

Merry Christmas

Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 03:56 PM

What I think about that is that the government should not be implementing a vaccine passport scheme, or whatever else you want to call it. Let individual institutions make their own rules. If a shop or an event won't let me in without proof of vaccination, I'd defend that to the hilt. When masks weren't compulsory, one shopkeeper attempted to shepherd me out of his shop in order to do business outside his door. Another one politely asked me to wear a mask if I had one (I did). Guess which one got my custom. An establishment seen as being too liberal about vaccination requirements would lose the custom of many of the more cautious. I think a voluntary scheme would catch on, and we'd feel that we were doing it ourselves, rather than having stuff imposed by a thoroughly disreputable government. Let's build that ethos. The public have shown in the last couple of weeks a damn sight more responsibility than the gits in Downing Street. That gives me hope. And you never know: this pandemic could, as we speak, be having its last hurrah.

As for Facebook, etc., its self-regulation is, cynically, way behind the curve. Its damage is well and truly done. Your call now, Facebookers...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 11:54 AM

I don't think I have ever suggested anyone getting forced to do anything, Steve. I asked the question, "Why is their freedom to not have the vaccine or their freedom to not wear a mask any more important than my freedom to go to public places without a major risk of getting the virus?" I don't defend Facebook either. I just said use it carefully. I may withdraw my support unless they either self regulate or get made to regulate fake news in the not too distant future.

My point still stands. Their freedoms are not any more or less important than mine. When the two conflict, who should decide which should be upheld? I would go for the majority but I don't know if that is right. Maybe more will be made of the Covid passes that seem to be being lined up? You can't go to certain countries without getting a vaccination. How about you cannot go to unnecessary events (pubs, nightclubs, theatres, sporting events etc.) without a Covid pass?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 11:20 AM

Well life ain't perfect. When you go out and about, especially in winter, you'll encounter people who have bad colds or even the remnants of flu. Or a dose of the shits (mind that supermarket trolley handle...). They haven't all been well-advised, they are not all being especially careful or kind-hearted, but no-one seriously suggests that they should be made to stay at home. Forcing someone to get jabbed is tantamount to assault. Sacking care workers or hospital workers for refusing the jab is not only wrong-headed (in m'humble) but is also destined to make matters much worse. That Facebook thingie that you defend has done so much harm in putting people off the jab. There wouldn't be anywhere near as many refusers were Facebook et al not to exist. Some people are easily persuaded and easily deluded and 'twas ever thus. Vote Boris, vote Trump, vote brexit. It could be that choosing vaccine-refusers to excoriate is shooting at the wrong target.

Like almost everyone else I'm obediently masking up. There was a woman who appeared to be perfectly able-bodied and sprightly swanning around Bude Sainsbury's yesterday, maskless. I reflected on how indignant I'd felt because she was breaking a rule that I don't agree with and feel is a waste of time...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 10:46 AM

Fauci indicated he thought the Omicron surge would occur over about three weeks and then subside. Alas, surging over the holidays when more people are out is part of the problem.

I spoke with my next door neighbor this morning, she sounds really tired, I think she's been sick for about 3 weeks now. I fear long COVID might be what she's experiencing. Timing-wise it seems like she probably caught the more serious Delta version (as an unvaccinated person).

Last week I ordered a set of the rapid tests, but they won't arrive for another couple of weeks. The company must have a backlog of orders.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 10:29 AM

News could have cool water
When the fever runs high
But its got the look of dark clouds
In the sky
The news is in crazy motion
'Til facts calmed me down
It took a little time
But facts calmed me down

When something goes wrong
I'm the first to admit it
I'm the first to admit it
But the last one to know

When something goes right
Well it's likely to lose me
It's apt to confuse me
It's such an unusual sight
I can't get used to something so right
Something so right

When something goes right its hardly reported
Its hardly reported and just goes away
When something goes wrong its talked about strong
Its talked about strong and seems here to stay
I can't get used to something so right
Some thing so right


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 08:22 AM

Steve: I think it could burn itself out very quickly.

Highly likely. Today's BBC radio news says there are reported to have been 1 million cases last week. If that is correct, and it continues doubling every 2 days (unlikely as it would run out of prospective infectees) then a fortnight would mean that the UK population had been affected and were in recovery phase.

Number of available contacts available to be infected must be dropping rapidly, which means that doubling every 2 days cannot be sustainable.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 06:59 AM

Hospitalizations are at a breaking point here due to medical staff shortages, available beds and a large unvaccinated population.
Of course there was no supply chain crises as predicted here so just maybe we could dodge this hospital crises.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 02:58 AM

I don't think anyone on here is an anti-vaxxer. I know Steve doubts the effectiveness of masks but will wear one anyway. So I don't know if anyone on here can answer my question. Why is their freedom to not have the vaccine or their freedom to not wear a mask any more important than my freedom to go to public places without a major risk of getting the virus?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 08:08 PM

There's the beginning of a hint of calming down this end over this omicron thang. It's mild (as long as you've been vaccinated). It seems to not cause an explosion in hospitalisations and deaths. The main problem is that infected people can't go to work, which means difficulties in the health and care sectors (both severely run down by the Tories, but hey ho). I think we won't get any more restrictions (I live in hope anyway). If this variant can spread so damn fast, then I think it could burn itself out very quickly.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 07:46 PM

I was reviewing quotes and quips of Lincoln today and the 'quote' is more of a paraphrase that my memory provided.
Over the next 2 months a projection of 140 million new cases of covid are expected. Where are the public service television shows that follow hundreds/thousands of the unvaccinated to their deaths? Show the actual trauma of the covid death. As I said seeing is believing. After a million deaths are we really too prim, proper and polite to hide the reality of avoidable disease suicide?
There were public service ads anf documentaries about drugs but covid is more lethal than Fentanyl.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 02:40 PM

Donuel:
Lincoln said that only the government can do the things individual citizens can not do.

Either you're misquoting Lincoln, or on that occasion he was wrong.
Couples can do things individuals cannot.
Sports teams can do things individuals cannot.
Etc. etc.

I would be interested to see the source of your "quote"


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 01:23 PM

Covid is the 3rd leading cause of death here. A million deaths are too vast and abstract to grieve over for me. Most people here feel it didn't have to be this way. I don't know but if most of us can anticipate a need for more tests around the holidays, then the government could too. Lincoln said that only the government can do the things individual citizens can not do.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 21 - 12:18 PM

Joe Biden refers to omicrom as a 'wildfire'. Thats a poor word choice imo portraying incineration and hot agonizing pain.

We are still in an anecdotal zone of data but there are indications in South Africa and the US that omicron infection is less severe.
Still the 2 day infection spread is unprecedented for a respiratory virus.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 21 - 10:10 AM

Essentially you can
pick from column A and add 'of omicron' in any region town or country
A:
Tidal wave
eruption
doubling
sky rocket
surge
gush
rush
outpouring
regurgitation
stream
flow
sweep
swell
billowing
stream
flow
burst
cascade
overflow
brim over
sweep
spout
spurt
roll
swarm
rise
jet
(thinking aloud)
It seems Long Haul dangers includes heart problems akin to symptoms like angina and a host of other yet provable effects which can be a pain in the ass but survivable for >99% of us.
BUT we may be looking at the start of covid burning itself out. The problem is that there have been break through infections of the vaccinated even in people who were previously infected with Covid/Sars2.
Afterall, we did defeat small pox and polio. Therefore I'm still hopeful Covid will someday diminish to flu levels of fatality.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Dec 21 - 08:04 PM

As I understand it, the lateral flow kits given out here must conform to a high standard. They are reputed to be not as reliable as the PCR tests, but I don't believe that. I think that any unreliability is down to user error/inexperience. Carried out properly, following the instructions on the box, there's no reason why they can't be pretty reliable. Not one hundred percent, of course, but what is?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Dec 21 - 06:43 PM

The test came back negative, but I've been looking for a particular brand of kit that is highly effective (the other kits you get two tests and it says to retest a couple of days later to see if the first one was effective.) I prowled the shelves of my local Walgreens and nothing - and then when I got home to get it from Amazon, they were out. And when you search on the test then follow the results you kit the pharmacy information page - they're all out. The one I was looking for is called FlowFlex and I think it's made a few miles from here at Alcon labs.

Looks like a good time to stay home, and buy the less effective test and take it twice. 7 Rapid At-Home Covid-19 Tests—and Where to Find Them


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Dec 21 - 05:46 PM

Looks like no restrictions added in England before Christmas. Whilst I fully agree with that outcome, if it comes about, the way it's been arrived at is simply laughable. Johnson is trapped between the backwoodsmen in his cabinet (and on his backbenches) and the scientists, and has been stalled into fearful inactivity.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Dec 21 - 04:44 PM

I have seen home test kits at my usual grocery store.


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