BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 10:25 AM

Here we go again. The evidence for the UK variant being "deadlier" is very limited and based on a small cohort. Maybe it isn't, maybe it is. By a bit. As for evolution, the trait that is being favourably selected for has nothing to do with "deadliness." It's changes in the spike protein which makes it easier for the virus to get into cells. In the larger scheme of things, a disease making itself more deadly is generally disadvantageous; if too many hosts are killed, or die too quickly (from the pathogen's point of view), then opportunities for its own dissemination become more limited. Not a good tactic. We need to avoid doom-laden posts, and the easiest way to do that is to ignore casual media snippets and dig deeper into the facts. And we are now in a context of very effective vaccines that stand a good chance of negating all this pessimism, something neither of you mentioned. I hope that was polite enough.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 08:30 AM

Yes it is what mutations can do in the realm of evolutionary science.
The only acknowlegement and behavior change for me is following the recommendation of Dr. Fauci, is to wear TWO masks. I use an N 95 with a cloth mask over that in public. Pithy perhaps but erring on the side of caution.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 08:15 AM

I loved that there was a national clap. And I love the phrase "national clap."

Meanwhile the CDC director said increasing data suggests the UK coronavirus variant may be deadlier than the original strain.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 08:04 AM

In spite of not thinking much about this clapping malarkey, I have to confess I did go outside yesterday evening and clap for Captain Sir Tom. Everyone else was out there too. I'm afraid it brought tears to my eyes. I thought about all those sad deaths, not just his. Tragic.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 08:01 AM

Getting excited about having my jab on Sunday evening. But worried about why my husband hasn't been sent for. An elderly friend in our village said she asked the injecting person about her husband, and the lady offered to give him his jab then and there! Apparently, someone hadn't turned up so they had a 'spare' jab, which would spoil if not given within hours.
Maybe I can persuade the nurse to 'do' mu husband too. He's so at risk cleaning in a school and being black. (BAME, or black, Asian, Middle Eastern, are more vulnerable)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 09:09 PM

So you think there IS a need for scaremongering then?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 08:56 PM

Yes Sir, we live to obey your rules of redacted truth, Sir.
You sir and the headmaster have total dominion over our perception of truth sir. We live to obey sir. You are not a parrot sir. No kidding sir.

I have seen people panic over voter fraud and baby eating cannabals and even drink the Kool Aid of death so panic does exist sir.


thank you for protecting us from that kind of panic sir.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 06:32 PM

Sometimes I think I'm a parrot. There is no need for any scaremongering over new variants or vaccines. There will be ups and downs and vital tweaks to be done and bulking-up of adapted vaccines to do. That's all within spec. The science is doing incredibly well. We were staring into the abyss a few months ago. That is no longer the case. So let's just cut out the doom-laden new-variant-yadayada statements and look to a better future, eh? Anyone who wants to stand out to be gloomily different, please do it in your own bedroom, along with your other private bedroom talents.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 05:33 PM

Yay Bonzo!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 02:10 PM

Depends what you mean by better job. I think our overall death rate is as bad, possibly even worse than the US, when you look at it per head of population. We do seem to be getting on well with vaccinating though!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 12:58 PM

Yay bonzo.
I obviously get the impression that the UK is doing a better job with the pandemic than the US.
Unfortunately they caught a bad break with the mutation varient.

Cartoon of s guy watching the boob tube and visibly clutching his arm armchair; ...mutants of the original variants of the mutants of these varients of the....

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 08:13 AM

Ist jab arranged for Saturday afternoon!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 11:47 AM

Sir Tom Moore another COVID-19 victim.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 11:46 AM

I live in a West country town where it is not too contentious
to claim objectively,
that we have a significantly larger population of ignorant arrogant chavs and scum..

(It's ok, I'm allowed to use these derogatory words, I could have been one of them if it wasn't for grammar school)

Hence a serious problem of non-compliance with masks, distancing, and use of sanitizer,
in and around town centre shops..

These are the people who have been and still are prime targets for malignant far right/libertarian internet influencers...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 11:27 AM

For the first time in six weeks I've just ventured more than four miles from my house (it has to be four miles because that's where the nearest big shop is!), all of ten miles to go to a country store to get my seed potatoes (was that allowed?). Paid a visit to the adjacent Waitrose while I was there. Pleased to say I wasn't stopped or remanded in custody. :-) Round here, there's no issue with mask compliance. I've never seen a shopper not wearing one. We're like that in the Westcountry. Keeping two metres apart and ignoring shop one-way systems is a different issue. That's apparently caused a good few spats in shops but so far I haven't reacted out loud. Biggest issue for us locals in these parts is second-home owners. They are simply not allowed to be here, but lots of them are, and the police, to their credit, respond quickly to complaints.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 11:19 AM

Rest In Peace Tom. A long life well-lived to the very end.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 11:13 AM

Sadly, Captain Tom has just died. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 10:49 AM

I agree Steve that it's rather a mixed forum, but some of the threads are very funny and raise a laugh (much needed at the present time)
I don't post on there though (I'm not a 'Mum'!)
I don't know yet which vaccine I shall be given, but I just have to trust it will be as near 100% effective as possible. However, I'll still wear my mask when at the supermarket, and socially-distance myself.
Our village has had a few cases now, and one death. Very worrying and sad.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 10:26 AM

No-one's piling on, Senoufou. I actually congratulated you for clearing up the confusion, lest ye forget! Your post opened up another avenue for discussion, that's all. I learned quite a bit about Mumsnet while I was at it. A good few people over there could use a bit more steely focus!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 09:41 AM

Well I seemed to have unleashed a furore of vituperative comments!
I merely wanted to express my concern for the admirable and brave gentleman, since he has had pneumonia and now Covid. I conveyed in good faith (since I read it on a post on Mumsnet) that he had had the vaccine. But I now know that he hasn't.
I do not believe that the vaccine does not protect one from the virus, I merely wondered how/why he had contracted it.
I am due to have my injection on Sunday at our local surgery.
My 'opinions' are generally rooted in Science and The Truth.
I am reasonably intelligent enough not to get enmeshed in Conspiracy Theories or ignorant suspicions.
I hope this clarifies my stance. So you can stop piling on!
Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 08:33 AM

The right to speak FREELY and have different opinions, is something that does not exist in totalitarian regime.
MP and TD,
have all sorts of opinions on abortion, capital punishment taking the vaccine, so what, I do not have to agree with them, just because they represent a constiuency,
but their right to freedom of speech is what distinguishes democracy from totalinarism

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 08:21 AM

Steve , you have misunderstood me, i am not actually refrring to mudcat,
I am referring to what i have seen with my eyes here in ireland, and on the virtual world of facebook,
people in supermarkets accosting and verbally insulting non mask wearers., and getting so worked up that they get close and forget about the 2 meter rule,. the sensible thing is just to give non mask werers more than 2 meters, but to go up to them and shout in their face is stupid .
people on facebook who suggest that people who suggest that the virus is no worse than the flu should be fined[] i am surprised they have not suggested capital punishment.
it is simple, someone not wearing a mask in a building give them more room, problem solved .

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 07:48 AM

I'm not proud of my ignorance, just very frustrated. Often I just look things up and all becomes clear, but not on that occasion.
I know the words Taoiseach and Dáil Éireann, but hadn't ever come across Teachta Dála.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 07:26 AM

Jos, it's kind of embarrassing if people appear to be proud of their ignorance. If you don't know what TD stands for, and what its meaning is, just ask.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 06:17 AM

I don't think anyone's telling anyone to shut up, Dick. Maybe suggesting that it would be a good idea to post with restraint and try to not say daft things... Suggesting being the operative word...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 06:04 AM

td is the irish equivalent of MP.What does TD mean in Ireland?
Teachta Dála
Deputy. Member of the Dáil; also known as a TD (Teachta Dála) Dáil Éireann. The Lower House of the Oireachtas; known as the Dáil for short. Dissolution.Jun 18, 2019

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 04:46 AM

TD?

I've done an internet search, and looked down through fifty threads, but perhaps it was in a post that has been deleted. Could be 'truth denier' I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 03:26 AM

.But the fact health services have been run down and cannot cope with a pandemic is the fault of those who govern us.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 03:24 AM

Why should anyone shut up , fortunately we have free speech and we are also free to ignore others comments, and make our own decisions.
Further more i do not think a TD should be sacked for saying the virus is no worse than the flu. I may disagree with him or i may not ,but starting to sack people for having a different opinion is a step towards Fascism and Totalitarinism, People are turning on each other .But the fact health services have been run down and cannot cope with … See more

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:42 PM

Alleluia, Scrumpyshire bro...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM

"Your comic relief is tolerated pfr but your contribution to pandemic relief is poor or absent."

That's an improvement..

Please try to continue restraining yourself to quickly read and discounted
snappy one-liners like this..


Btw.. when you invent a proven to work miracle cure for covid,
then you might have earned the right to posture
as the superior 'Big I Am' of pandemic relief..

However, until then you are no more important here then any other BS poster
with a keyboard and an arse to sit on...

Also remember many more folks are much closer to death on the front line than you are..

Key workers and their families live in real daily fear..

For us, this is not just an intellectual academic game
for scoring ego points against forum rivals.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM

I think that what you say about Dr Fauci chimes very well with the general tenor of my BBC piece. "Experts" are frequently derided, and often, when invoked generically, are the victims of weasel wordery, but in this pandemic we have really needed the real experts to calm us all down. They do that best by telling us how little we actually know so far and by being measured in their cautions to us. What we don't need is scary non-experts, who abound, who think they own the truth when in reality they simply want to make themselves stand out from the worried crowd, ending up worrying the crowd even more - if we let them...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 08:51 PM

Considering the title of this thread is specifically related to 'news' it invites folks to reproduce within thread things that pass for news. Unfortunately 'news' is not facts.

Two quotes, one by a famous guy, one not:

In a documentary about himself and his life, physicist Richard Feynman said: "I know how hard it is to actually KNOW something."

And this guy I knew who was a project runner on the Alaska Pipeline was being briefed while walking through a facility and remarked to the guy: "Is this relevant or is it just information?"

Listening to Dr. Fauci I am constantly reminded that the experts and researchers on the frontiers of medicine are still learning about this particular incarnation of coronavirus. That means the reactions and treatments of the disease are also subject to change including the vaccines. To date Dr. Fauci has been consistent to get vaccinated because that limits transmission and transmission limits the spread of mutations in the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 08:42 PM

Apropos of the effectiveness of the various vaccines against new variants, here's what the Health Editor of BBC News Online posted today. Not the last word, just a single source, but far more sober, sane and balanced than some of the more hysterical stuff flying around. Please hang on the words and reflect that I've refrained from highlighting what I thought are the most germane points (I was tempted, but we can all read).

I'd also add that vaccines that appear to lose efficacy can relatively easily be tweaked in a fairly short time. No panic, no amateur dramatics needed, just patience and intelligent concern. Once we've had the vaccine we should thank a scientist, and a good way of doing that is to show enough respect to look their stuff up before sounding off with sweeping statements and flailing around in all directions.

All viruses, including the one that causes Covid-19, constantly mutate into new versions or variants.

These tiny genetic changes happen as the virus makes new copies of itself to spread and thrive.

Most are inconsequential, and a few can even be harmful to the virus's survival, but some variants can make the virus more infectious or threatening to the host - humans.

There are now many thousands of variants of the pandemic virus circulating. But experts are concerned about the South African variant, or 501.V2.

Is it more dangerous?
There is no evidence that the South Africa variant causes more serious illness for the vast majority of people who become infected.

As with the original version, the risk is highest for people who are elderly or have significant underlying health conditions.

But there are concerns it can spread more readily and vaccines may not work quite as well against it.

What do experts say?
The South African variant carries a mutation called E484K, among others.

It's different to the recently discovered UK or Kent variant that scientists have also been studying in the UK.

Both variants appear to be more contagious, which is a problem because tougher restrictions on society may be needed to control the spread.

While changes in the new UK variant are unlikely to harm the effectiveness of current vaccines, there is a chance those in the South African variant may do so to some extent, say scientists.

It is too soon to say for sure, or by how much, until more tests are completed, although it is extremely unlikely the mutations would render vaccines useless.

Scientists have tested the Pfizer Covid vaccine against one of the mutations found in the South African variant, called N501Y, using blood samples from 20 people.

In that preliminary study, vaccination appeared to work against the mutated virus.

More studies are needed though.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 07:50 PM

The third Mumsnet "Tom" thread was duly deleted but there's yet another one running now. There's a lot of unjustified speculation about the holiday he took in December and about his family and what's happening to him in hospital, though there a lot of holding-back going on that wasn't there before. I think we can do better.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 06:37 PM

Your comic relief is tolerated pfr but your contribution to pandemic relief is poor or absent.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 01:13 PM

"Which would you prefer:
To never read my words again.
OR
Be pain free from all your conditions for the rest of your life."

I'd prefer you to be more disciplined & considerate,
and resist persistently swamping serious threads
with your excessive egotistical indulgences.

It's tiresome having to wade through it all
every time I find a few spare minutes
to catch up on these debates..

Try better at communicating your points more concisely...

Not every thread needs to be "The Donuel Show"...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:59 PM

No I can't. The two earlier threads were deleted, but I was able to see the first couple of lines of a few posts when I googled as I told you, which were indicating, or criticising, speculation about him and his vaccine. Maybe you could try that, or maybe it's too late. The third thread, which I've read but which is now being deleted *as I understand it), avoided mention of the vaccine (maybe because there was so much dispute in the first two threads, who knows, and that it is now clear that the efficacy of the vaccine is irrelevant to discussions about Tom).

Here's the Mumsnet HQ message that announced the deletion of the third thread:

" YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet (MNHQ)    Mon 01-Feb-21 17:30:33

Hello everyone. We are getting a lot of reports about this thread. As several posts have been deleted and many more are continuing to break our Talk Guidelines, we have decided to delete it now as it's really not making anyone look good at this stage."

I completely agree with that sentiment. I've said more than once that speculation put up as fact, sweeping statements and scaremongering in discussions about coronavirus are not only harmful but they also bring this website into disrepute. "Not making anyone look good," right?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:31 PM

I am surprised that you see that as 'attack mode', Steve.

I tried Googling "Mumsnet Captain Tom Vaccination" but all I got was an opening page with a couple of messages wishing him well and subsequent pages, each with a message saying that the thread had been deleted. The message acknowledged that the majority of posters were wishing him well, but said that posts speculating on his health or other aspects did not seem to be in the spirit of the site right now.

There was nothing that I could find that told me anything about discussion on the effectiveness of the vaccine. Perhaps you could provide a link?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:24 PM

Ok interesting article here on Australia&s response. My Tazzie sister's life is normal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/world/australia/perth-lockdown.html

Blicky.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:19 PM

I'm interested in facts. On this topic it's vital that we avoid propagating misinformation in the guise of facts. And if we don't yet know all the facts to sufficiently support a claim, then that claim should remain under wraps. If we post speculation we should be crystal clear with our caveats that we are indeed posting speculation. It also helps if we can stay cool.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:02 PM

So Steve you are not interested in truth as much as condeming my sentences. I am in favor of your freedom but not when you attack truth. For that, a hard rains a gonna fall.
If your goal is to hurt me, its never gonna happen. (unless you visit)
Which would you prefer:
To never read my words again.
OR
Be pain free from all your conditions for the rest of your life.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:52 AM

And I've said this before and I'll say it again. Jumping on snippets of "information," especially those coming from journalists who are after scoops, taking them out of context and sounding alarms, is a practice that's rife all over the internet and we should squash it firmly when it rears its ugly head on Mudcat. The work on the efficacy of all the current vaccines in the face of variants of the virus is ongoing and is in its infancy still, relatively speaking. It takes time to amass sufficient field data on this, and some of the vaccines are hardly out of the starting block, and some of the variants are very new, or at least newly-discovered. We need to to be patient and we need to be sceptical about sources until we have checked, checked and checked again. Sweeping statements about vaccines (plural) being less effective, etc., of the kind we've seen here say a lot more about their propagators than they do about the science.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:38 AM

Well, Doug, the Mumsnet thread was deleted with a message from headquarters that a thread speculating about Captain Tom is inappropriate. But you can read enough from the results from googling "Mumsnet Captain Tom Vaccination" to see that there was indeed much misinformation and unwarranted speculation going on, with implications that the vaccine (which he hadn't had) was ineffective. Always worth a double-check before adopting attack mode.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:24 AM

Maggie, please read his completely unqualified sentence again. Not for the first time your criticism of me is out of order.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:11 AM


"Varients do have changed binding sites that makes original vaccines less effective."

This is fake news. You absolutely have to STOP doing this.

Sorry, Steve, but if you've been listening to people talk about how the vaccine evolves, that is exactly what is happening. The way these things bind, the part of the virus shell that does this part, has changed, making them "stickier" and harder to eradicate with a vaccine or various treatments so far attempted. And it means several of the vaccines (Johnson & Johnson, in particular) are less effective.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 08:24 AM

My take on Capt. Tom becoming infected,
is that even at his level of importance, frailty, and protection,
someone has been too bloody careless...???

Is a hasty investigation being conducted...?????

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 07:52 AM

..... that some git on Mumsnet is implying that the vaccine doesn't work because Capt.Tom has been vaccinated but still got infected.


Be careful, Steve, that you you don't fall in to the trap yourself, of reading what you want to read rather than what is actually written. A poster here repeated a piece of misinformation, taken from Mumsnet, that Capt. Sir Tom had been vaccinated. The conclusion that

"..... that one can still contract the virus after having the jab"

May have come from Mumsnet but, equally, may have Senoufou's own opinion.

Wherever that conclusion came from, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is implying that the vaccine doesn't work. It may have been expressing a note of caution that, since none of the vaccines claim to be 100% effective, vaccination does not make us invincible and that mask/distance/hygiene precautions should still be followed.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:11 PM

Yeah, right, Sen, misinformed. Well done for clearing that one up. Here's the thing with me that pisses me off bigtime. There are two lots of people living round here near me, good friends for donkeys' years, who I like a lot, who suck in this kind of blatant misinformation and for whom it is bias confirmation, as they are already readily susceptible to conspiracy theories. They are easy and gullible recipients and the misinformation fed to them is put out lazily and with no evidence to support it. On the other hand, we who have to counter this nonsense have to work so bloody hard to dig out the evidence in order to be persuasive enough to negate it. It is not a level playing field. What I'm saying, for example, is that some git on Mumsnet is implying that the vaccine doesn't work because Capt.Tom has been vaccinated but still got infected. Fake news. We have someone here saying that vaccines are less effective against new variants (I tried to spell that last word correctly). Fake news. I'm getting bloody sick of it, to be honest. I'm biased because I have that stupid uphill battle with the nice people round here who I know. But please let's not see Mudcat get infested with this stuff. Please?

And best wishes to the admirable Capt. Tom, a man I admire greatly.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Allan Conn
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 06:42 PM

Also depends when he was vaccinated? It doesn't give you instant protection. The protection builds over a couple of weeks or so. So I take it someone who only got the vaccine say a few days ago would be susceptible. Plus of course the efficacy is not 100% in any of the vaccines.