BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 10:41 PM

I am not telling anybody else to wait. I am personally not comfortable taking an as-yet-un-fully-tested vaccine. I am not afraid I will become autistic or grow a second head. I would just prefer to wait for data on what the effects *are* -or aren't.

This from an Embassy brat in the 3rd world in the 60's, regularly punctured, I was, and glad of it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 09:15 PM

Trump called the head of the FDA to the White House this week apparently to harangue them about approval of vaccines. I presume the FDA head will push back. It needs to be done in an orderly fashion, and this won't be one of the usual FDA fuckups, when the rules have been so diluted on other things they do that what they do is meaningless. It often has to do with dollars being cut to agencies like this so they can't do what they're supposed to.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 08:03 PM

The vaccine approval process in the US is not the same as in the UK. In the US, raw data is required, whereas in the UK reports from the vaccine developers are accepted. The difference is a few days. Dr Fauci, who had initially dissed the UK approach as too fast, has now recanted and accepted that our approach is sufficiently rigorous. Whilst I would always accept that the Tories seek hubris as their goal, I think that the rapid progress in approving the vaccine is wholly to the credit of the scientists in this country, not the bloody Tories. They do like to bathe in reflected glory....

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 06:24 PM

On the one hand I never trust UK tory politicians,
so the rush to be world beating first with vaccine approval
is tainted by my attitude on that..

On the other, I suspect USA might take too long to approve vaccines,
because of fears of that American enthusiasm
for mass class law suits...???

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 06:22 PM

I completely agree with all that, Jeri. The only thing is that the scaremongering about vaccine safety is rife on social media, and the companies are slow when it comes to removing it. I read a piece somewhere today that the scaremongering is spreading to community forums like this one. Two people here have already bigged up their scares about vaccine safety. It's unfounded, it's irresponsible and it's not on. Even on this strange little music forum. If you're scared of the vaccine, good for you. But those fears are not founded on any known science, so (to be less diplomatic than you), these guys need to shut up and keep their irrational fears strictly to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 06:07 PM

The problem is when people are afraid of the vaccine because they think may have bizarre side effects. Vaccines stimulate the immune system. If you're afraid they might make you hallucinate, grow a second head, OR CAUSE AUTISM, it's not just ignorant, but destructive.

The worst thing I believe that can happen is it won't be effective. Other things are soreness at the injection site, maybe more of your arm, flu-like symptoms (the immune system response), and... that's pretty much it.

So if you're afraid to get the shot, don't get the shot. Just keep wearing a mask and keep avoiding crowds, or being physically close to people you don't know well, an keep doing that until the virus isn't circulating very much. And don't try to frighten people who don't have an issue with the vaccine. At worst, it could kill people. (Nobody is probably paying attention, anyway. Strange people on a strange little music forum.)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 05:08 PM

You are scaremongering. The urgency of the situation has galvanised research workers and the approval system, and corners have not been cut. The science has been utterly amazing. If we waited for your suggested five years, millions more people may die. There's far too much of your kind of bollix being propagated and it's very worrying that it's spreading like wildfire from social media on to community forums like this one. Your choice: don't have the vaccine and let the rest of us move up the queue. Fine by me.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 04:20 PM

All other vaccines were tested for years, and nasty side-effects removed, before said vaccine ever got to market. *That* is where the guineapigging is. Imma wait 3-5 years, if I can. Mind you I am not an essential worker, so I can afford to wait.

And isn't every symptom a body reaction to something, and not that thing itself?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 03:17 PM

Thanks to the modern marvel of the internet,
too many fukwit Brits have been convinced trump
is also their glorious crusading leader...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 02:54 PM

J e r i
You know full well we had a President who didn't give a shit about people and even encouraged people to not wear a mask, had no national response and prferred to push the issue onto all the govenors to scavenge against each other.

Thats why we are #1 with 3,000 deaths a day this week.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 01:40 PM

I'll get the vaccine when I can. I think the worst thing it can do is not work.
I wonder if, in the USA, at least, if we'd been better at wearing masks and social distancing, we could have greatly reduce the number of people infected. We have a federal government that doesn't want to do the job, and a number of folks who won't wear a mask, and the bottom line is we have a society full of people who don't give a shit about others.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 12:06 PM

A local poll showed that in Wash. DC 72% do not want the Covid 19 vaccine shots.

Chocolate city, as its called, is a mostly black population so I suspect a 'Tuskeegee effect' is the fear most blacks have in their mind. Unvaccinated blacks may produce a 'Magic Johnson effect' and cause some white people to be even more wary of blacks.

Obama will be vaccinated on TV. Same with Biden and Trump wants credit for the whole thing.

It is unfortunate that paranoia may rule the day here and abroad that can only inssure more infection and death for a longer time.

I will prefer innoculation to infection.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 11:55 AM

That Telegraph link opened on my PC,
and I definitely aint signed up with 'em..

Yesterday I had to walk to town centre and back
for my twice monthly potential suicide mission
leaving my safe-house bunker to the post office..

This time hardly anyone was wearing masks,
and young men were defiantly maskless inside the post office.
Despite notices stating illegal to not wear a mask on premises...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 11:11 AM

This.

CDC director: Winter could be 'most difficult time in the public health history of this nation'

The U.S. could see another 200,000 coronavirus deaths in the next three months if people don't take mitigation measures such as mask-wearing and physical distancing seriously, according to the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

"The reality is December and January and February are going to be rough times. I actually believe they're going to be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation," largely because of the stress to the health system, CDC Director Robert Redfield said Wednesday during a U.S. Chamber of Commerce event.

The coronavirus is surging across the entire nation, and the health care system is being strained nearly to the breaking point in many states. At least 270,000 people have died, including nearly 2,600 on Tuesday, the highest single-day death toll of the pandemic so far.

Redfield said 90 percent of hospitals are in the red zone, with more than 90,000 people hospitalized.

"I do think unfortunately, before we see February, we could be close to 450,000 Americans dead from this virus," he said, but added the country is not defenseless.

"The truth is, mitigation works. The challenge with this virus is, it's not going to work if half of us do what we need to do. It's not even going to work, probably if three quarters of us do what we need to do. This virus really is going to require all of us to really be vigilant," Redfield said.

The CDC head said one thing that has disappointed him is the inconsistent messaging and politicization over mask wearing.

"The time for debating whether or not masks work or not is over. We clearly have scientific evidence," Redfield said, pointing specifically to a CDC study in Kansas that showed areas with mask mandates saw a decline in COVID-19 transmission, while those without a mandate saw a 100 percent increase.

Redfield said he thinks one of the most "painful" lessons from the pandemic so far is to make sure there's "harmony" among messaging.

"When you really want to get everybody on board, you've got to have clear, unified reinforced messaging. And I think the fact that we were still arguing in the summer about whether or not masks work was a problem," he said.

Redfield did not address the fact that much of the inconsistent messaging and politicization has followed a lack of central leadership. There was no national testing strategy, and no national policy on masks or other public health measures, only recommendations.

States have been left to figure it out for themselves, resulting in a patchwork of differing responses across the country. At the same time, much of the politicization has come from President Trump and others in the administration, who have prioritized the economy while downplaying the pandemic and the benefit of public health measures from the start.

Trump repeatedly promised a vaccine would be ready before the Nov. 3 election, despite what public health officials said. At one point in the fall, Trump phoned Redfield directly to contradict the director's congressional testimony on vaccine distribution and the efficacy of masks.

Redfield drew scrutiny in March when he showered Trump with praise during a visit to the CDC headquarters, and the president inaccurately proclaimed any American who wanted a COVID-19 test could get one.

Then in April, Trump insisted Redfield dispute his comments to The Washington Post that the winter would be especially challenging because of the combination of flu season and COVID-19. The CDC director acknowledged he had been accurately quoted.

Guidance on who to test for COVID-19 was changed to recommend against the testing of people who had been exposed but were asymptomatic, and top communications officials in the Department of Health and Human Services came under fire for trying to control the content and timing of the CDC’s weekly scientific reports on the pandemic.

There are several helpful links to other parts of this story if you follow the link at the top.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 10:10 AM

Them wot know try to predict which flu strain or strains might be prevalent in the coming flu season and include them in the vaccine. I have the flu jab every year and never have any reaction at all (I haven't caught flu since I started having it and I had caught flu a good number of times before that, and I'm not talking man-flu here). Mrs Steve can get a slightly sore patch on her arm for a day or three.

Currently in this nation of ours there's a lot of mad, unwarranted glee about the vaccine(s). The fact is that most people aren't getting it for months, not to speak of the fact that we have a regime that shows utter ineptitude at every stage of dealing with this virus. Let's hope it doesn't lead to complacency. On top of that, we're getting a load of vox pop nonsense on the telly involving ignorant scaremongering about the safely of the vaccine. We appear to be living in a tabloid world.

ALSO SPRACH ZARATHUSTRA...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 09:29 AM

I'm sure most people know this. The "side effects" of many vaccines aren't from the vaccine itself, but from your body's reaction to it. It's the immune system kicking into gear, recognizing and reacting to the bad stuff. It lasts for, at the most, 2 or 3 days. There's a chance you could be incubating the virus before you got the shot. With the flu shot, there's a chance you'll be infected with a strain of flu the shot doesn't immunize you against. I don't know that that has anything to do with the various Covid-19 immunizations, because I believe they're a different type of shot. It's still gonna be about your own immune system.

And I HAVE SPOKEN. (again)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 08:30 AM

Er, that game ain't worth the candle, Dick...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 08:27 AM

Jeri has spoken, it must be true

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 08:04 AM

Can't read that unless I join their club...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 07:41 AM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/03/pfizer-vaccine-covid-biontech-safe/

"What exactly is the Pfizer vaccine, who will get it, and is it safe?
Here is what you need to know about the coronavirus jab approved for use in the UK"

yeah.. it's the telegraph.. but.. it seems ok enough for a starter...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 05:47 AM

It would be a very good idea if persons here who wish to stand out from the crowd refrain from rattling on about the side effects of vaccines. Anything more than a sore arm or a whiffy headache for a day or two is extremely rare. About one person in a million (a stat I haven't made up) might respond adversely to egg albumen protein in a vaccine, and that's about it. Vaccines save millions of lives every year and can wipe out deadly diseases such as smallpox and polio altogether. Millions of children have had their lives protected and been steered away from permanent disabilities by the measles vaccine. If you want to feel special, this is one area in which you need to feel special all by yourself, in private.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 05:42 AM

Donny - you do obsess about throw-away details in other folks posts .. dontcha...

There'd be less 'lab rat' anxiety and suspicion about the first to be distributed vaccine,
if conniving amoral callous tory politicians were not at the forefront of bigging it up...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 05:16 AM

I had a bad side effect from a vaccine. It was short and I am alive.
Every calculated risk you take is an experimental journey in life, a temporary state, so believe as you wish and be a happy alive lab rat.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 11:33 PM

Given that it takes 5 years to test for vaccine side effects yes, everyone taking these vaccines is an experimental subject.

Covid claims the life of 94yo Valéry Giscard-d'Estaing, who was president of France during most of my adolescence, when I still lived in francophonie.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 05:42 PM

For god's sake tie your goat down and give it RFID chips and back up tracking devices. No one should get your goat with proper precautions.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 01:52 PM

Sorry, Maggie, but only the first source you quote isn't either popular "science" or tendentious evangelism. The first one seems to hinge on viruses invariably being spread in airborne droplets. The actual size of a virus particle is hundreds of times smaller than the ones captured by the best particle-trapper cited in the article, and you are ignoring what I said about the aggravated spread of virus from improperly-handled used masks. And an infected person, out and about not knowing that they are infected, would pollute their mask within seconds of putting it on. Yes, masks stop some droplets. But then what? Whip it off, chuck it on the dashboard until you get to the next shop. Then put it back on, using your fingers on the fabric to bend the wire back round your nose. And not all virus will be in droplets, and droplets evaporate. I'm not campaigning to get rid of masks and I wear a mask according to the rules wherever I go. The really wilfully stupid thing is to look at data with the intention of getting it to prove what you already believe. As I said a couple of posts ago, any one of us can easily find sources that claim that masks are a good thing and others that claim that masks are a bad thing. There is plenty of scope on both sides for getting it wrong, which is why vacuous unqualified statements such as "masks save lives" get my goat somewhat. I know how hard it is to be totally neutral and even-handedly sceptical when looking at data, but that's the way I was trained. Ask Joe about me, him and God...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jos
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 12:15 PM

It is reported today that “Health Secretary Matt Hancock offered to get vaccinated live on television to help convince people the coronavirus jab is safe.”
Those who remember an earlier minister, John Gummer, being shown feeding a beef burger to his daughter to persuade people that eating beef would not give them bovine spongiform encephalopathy [“mad cow disease”], may be less easily convinced.
I am not aware that his daughter became ill as a result, but 177 British people not only caught the disease, but died from it,

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 12:00 PM

Geez, Louise, some of you are being willfully stupid about masks.

Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2

Masks Save Lives

Facemasks: What the Data Say

Masks Save Lives.org

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 11:24 AM

The shingles vaccine was surprisingly achey. Mrzzy you are not a lab rat to take covid vaccines, but you do risk contamination in manufacture. However in a perfect world you would be paid $50 grand to take it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 11:11 AM

Anybody taking vaccine for covid in the next, oh, 5 years *is* being a lab rat / guinea pig / experimental subject.

My dad used to warble If you have to take vaccine, take it orally / for you know the other way can most painful be...

I am looking forward to the data we will get from these experiments, though. No other way to test that I can think of. And with my lack of risk factors I got time before the jabs roll around to me, so thanks to all y'all willing to be guinea pigs for the likes of me.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 10:15 AM

Steve - I want a vaccine asap, but...

.. by the time my demographic 60 - 65 gets called in for a jab,
I'm hoping it is truly safe and effective.

.. and not just 'safe enough' for boris to blow his own 'Britain first in the world' trumpet fanfare..

Pragmatic me can understand the tories trialing the over 80s as mass guinea pigs for pre xmas tory good cheer PR..,
but I'm concerned NHS and care home/social workers
are also being hurriedly used as lab rats for this first run of Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine...???????

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 09:59 AM

"My own health has deteriorated due to being stubbornly reluctant to risk setting foot in my GP surgery."

I'm in exactly the same boat.

I'm not sure what a Labour government would have done different and I think it's pretty pointless to surmise. The dreadful clampdowns and long-term misery the country is enduring - along with a huge number of deaths, especially of the elderly - are squarely the fault of this Tory government. The lockdown was delayed, therefore needing to be more severe, the NHS was unready and under-resourced, they sent untested old people back into homes from hospitals in droves, the rollout of testing was scandalously bad, PPE provision was crap, billions have been wasted on a track-and-trace that is totally unfit for purpose, beaches and resorts were allowed to be swamped by tourists from all over the country, a useless tier system, unpoliced of course, led to another lockdown... Any bets on the vaccine rollout being efficient and fair?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 09:54 AM

We have always lived by calculated risk anyway. I broke quarantine over tooth pain and my wife over a death in the family. To each their own.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 09:40 AM

While I am not claiming immunity from the syndrome called Covid fatigue
you guys are showing all the initial symptoms. Your blamegame won't kill anyone but letting down your guard will. When common sense is compromised mistakes are more easily made. Take care and stay safe all.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 09:18 AM

Steve - we've all been buggered raw by this last year of pandemic.

I've not see my mum since February,
and have some really difficult decisions hanging over me,
to make about her with adult social services.

My own health has deteriorated due to being stubbornly reluctant to risk setting foot in my GP surgery.

The UK vaccine news just announced today may be a genuine positive game changer,
but naturally enough I distrust any 'good news' trumpeted from our tory govt..

However I'm not convinced a more honest and transparent Labour govt
would have performed much better during pandemic,
and not needed to make similarly drastic draconian decisions
for our own safety and longer term chances of survival...?????

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 09:00 AM

In another thread Donuel bemoans the misuse of the word incredible. I think you are both misusing the word inconvenient.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 08:33 AM

Yep, this pandemic is a bit inconvenient, innit..

Just to think.. we are all descendants
of the survivors of that century ago pesky flu bug...

How many, 100 years from now, will be able to say the same thing
about their great grandad and granma
being sensible or lucky enough to stay alive during covid...???

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 07:57 AM

Man points vial of pandemic virus at Jack "Your inconveinence or your life".......Well?...
Jack finally says "I'm thinking".

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 07:27 AM

No you don't what?


Controlling people's lives, throwing millions out of work, wrecking thousands of small businesses, telling folk they can't leave their homes, shutting down schools for months, telling them they can't see their families for many a long month, trapping and isolating old people in care homes*, threatening the mental health of millions... Yep, it's all about "helping" people, innit...

*Yep, I'm biased. Since early March and through to late October I saw my profoundly deaf mum just a handful of times through a perspex screen. Before that I used to go to her room in the home to sit with her four or five times a week, and I'd take her out for drives and shopping and cups of tea. At least I was allowed to be at her side in hospital as she died.

I don't want to be in a world that thinks it's fine to treat people like this.

Subject: RE: BSilly shit on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 06:14 AM

No I don't.

I did assume the unspoken foundation of all Covid 19 threads was about helping people.
For example you can not get Covid 19 from vaccines. Yes your arm will ne sore and you may even get a short term fever but that is your immune system working.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 05:13 PM

Maybe a difference twixt you and me, Jeri. You google "proof that masks work." I googled "evidence for mask wearing." We can both find opinion (not proof) either way, and I admitted that. You seek confirmation bias...?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 05:05 PM

Think about it, Dick. You can justifiably claim that a mask will stop some droplets (though what then happens to the trapped viruses in those droplets is fully at the mercy of the mask owner). What you can't claim is that wearing masks saves lives or that not wearing masks kills people. Your opinion can lean one way or the other, but evidence cannot be available, and claims either way are specious. Now what time is Spooks on...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 04:58 PM

Dick, do you need help with a Google search? Try going to this magic website, and type in the words "proof that masks work" (you can copy and paste that). After that, you can pick the links of hits you want to read.

I hope this helps.

Oh - try going to the links to WHO (World Health Organization) of CDC (Centers for Disease Control) first. They're usually pretty informative.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 04:37 PM

stilly river sage, can you provide us with the evidence please. i wear a mask but there is lots of conflicting stories about their success in stopping the spread of covid 19,perhaps some masks are more effective than others lets have the data

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 04:02 PM

Be like me and watch Spooks repeats on Drama. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now but I love it...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 02:11 PM

Depends how it's expressed..

Maybe I spend far too much time late at night
'researching' malignant crackpot far right, and dodgy misguided liberal,
youtube channels...???

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 01:47 PM

Well I doubt that too many of those are here, and, if they do put their heads above the parapet, we'll take them on. Incidentally, I don't think that expressing doubt in a measured way or asking for more evidence is being "negative ..."

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 01:33 PM

Steve - I can't say my scepticism is too different to yours..

I'll put up with the discomforts of wearing masks,
in the absence of any other better proven tangible self defense
against the potentially lethal mass morons in society..

Where we differ, is I'll keep doubtful negative opinions on masks quietly to myself.

When liberal/lefty smartarses like us air our doubts publicly,
all that does is further legitimise and enable
the selfishly undisciplined far right libertarian anti masker covidiots...

They love it when we sound like we agree with them...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 01:12 PM

I challenged Donuel's assertion by questioning his lack of evidence. You make your assertion, telling me to google it, by telling me to "stop quibbling." You do have form when it comes to your rather aggressive mask promotion. In fact, there is little evidence that masks outside hospital settings save many lives. There are plenty of googlable reports (try the BMJ and the Royal Society, the first two that I saw when I obediently googled it) that conclude that the negatives outweigh whatever positives there are (as ever, I tend to avoid what newspapers or popular science magazines say). Much of what you can read about this, on both sides of the argument, is no better than informed opinion, which is not evidence. You certainly can't present direct evidence, in terms of numbers, that masks are saving lives, as you assert. I can't present evidence to the contrary, either. However, it's patently obvious, just by observing people's behaviour, that poor compliance with the rules for how masks should be used is rife. Not only that, it's highly likely that mask wearing gives a false sense of security to many people. I've noticed (without actually looking for trouble) that quite a lot of mask-wearers ignore social distancing in shops and neglect to clean either their hands or supermarket trolley handles on their way in. It's likely that they are largely the same people who misuse their masks. Once again, I'm simply questioning the efficacy of mask wearing in the community. I'm not an anti-mask campaigner or a rebel and I cheerfully do what most people do, i.e., wear a mask where required. If I feel sceptical about other people's assertions, I put my hands on my hips and say, where's your evidence? I don't accuse them of quibbling. Cheers.

---

This post contains unsubstantiated opinion and untrue information about the safety involved in wearing face masks during the time of COVID-19.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 12:00 PM

Injecting bleach into the mouth is a common step in a root canal procedure.

I don't know if its true, it just feels true: People with excruciating back pain are in general argumentative over stupid shit...

I wear a N-95 with a 2 or 3 layer mask outside to seal the edges.

I also have a heavy duty gold visor air tight helmet used for oil well fires. I haven't had the occaision to use it yet. Besides I don't have the insulated oxygen tank or rebreather but I have the fireproof pants and coat.