BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 07:35 AM

In the US you will see FREE TESTING SIGNS however many people are ending up with bills between $2,000-$3,000 for that free testing depending upon the response of the testee.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 04:35 AM

Speech marks optional.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 04:34 AM

Why thank you, Mr Red, for misrepresenting what I posted. Here, for your delectation, is the full quote as you should have reproduced it:

"Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless in the way you put them.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jun 20 - 03:00 AM

Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless

Hmmmmmm. They tell us that the statement is that wearing masks is better than not wearing. And may I quote (Sir) Peter Piot, director of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, AND who has headed up numerous UN AIDS groups.

"I would be happier wearing a mask at 1 metre, than not wearing one with 2 metre separation".

Having survived he said "after years fighting infectious dieases** - it was COVID that finally got me. Trust me, you don't want it, it causes organ damage"

I'll take my cue from Baron Piot KCMG, FRCP, FMedSci

**notably AIDS and the discovery of the Ebola virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 09:10 PM

MD as in Maryland, where DC is, but not an MD, as in medical doctor. Politics seem to trump everything, including science, concern for others.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 08:58 PM

The rates in MD are fairly low (IMO) and going down, but Congress itself is a bunch of crossroads. Supposedly, masks are required in committee meetings. I don't know if anyone will enforce it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 08:17 PM

Your politics is stark staring mad, so I tend to pay no heed.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 06:46 PM

The punchline is that the Republican congressman involved is an MD.

He advises his constituents *not* to wear masks - so as to defy the "misrepresentations" of the "media."

Mad, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 04:53 PM

I can't read that. Present the unalloyed facts about masks as we know them to the people, make recommendations and leave it to us. I don't want to know what your politicos think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:42 PM

"Citing 'irrational fears' of killer pandemic, Republicans fight face masks in Congress":

https://news.yahoo.com/citing-irrational-fears-of-killer-pandemic-republicans-fight-face-masks-in-congress-204027452.html

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:31 PM

To you. I've cleaned my reading glasses.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 01:29 PM

If you don't want fights, please don't start them. My response you was civil and consistent, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 11:39 AM

Funerals in the age of Covid 19 are lonely affairs no matter what the cause of death. So if we are going to have one, let the wake be now.
"For he was a folly good jello, for he was a folly good jello
For He was a folly good JELLO
which he always did deny".

Thanks everyone for tolerating the final episode of The Steve Diversion Hour , he always loved those so much, "Its always about ME" Diversions were his favourite. His never changing request that others must change was steadfast to the end. Amen

Now back to news: Arizona has broken records of of infection
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-sets-covid-19-records-with-case-treatment-increases1

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 11:19 AM

I'm not going to fight, Steve. I don't need that.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 10:15 AM

Not nice to make that little bandwagon slur, Jeri. You seem to be on Donuel's gas oven bandwagon. In a post yesterday I tried quite hard to be clear that I recognise the different situations our two countries are in, using Cornwall, where I live (very few cases) and Texas (major crisis). I also said that I am not anti-mask, and that I do possess masks. I've said that there is no mask-wearing culture round here, which, with our risk level low and getting lower, is perfectly understandable. I have said that I will (and do) wear a mask if required to do so. Along with many other people, I do have a lot of doubts about the efficacy of masks in many situations: misuse, improper reuse, false sense of security, ineffectiveness in part. Mask evangelists do not have a monopoly over the truth of the matter, though you would think so, reading some of the rather moralising comments here. I've said that I don't sport a mask myself but that I don't laugh at mask wearers. I support all the government advice on social distancing, travelling and visiting or meeting people and I stick to it all assiduously. There is no advice to wear a mask unless you use public transport. I shop for vulnerable people. My hands have never been cleaner or more sanitised, and my standard of personal hygiene, as I've said, is high. If you think that puts me in league with white supremacist trumpers or the purveyors of mass extermination, well you'll just have to go on thinking it, won't you.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 09:49 AM

Steve lives in a country where the rates have come way down, because nobody is as dangerous as what passes for the US federal government. I'm not entirely sure they aren't actively trying to kill citizens.

The fact that he's on the same bandwagon as the white supremacist Trumpers is just a coincidence. If the UK doesn't advise people to wear masks in public, then he doesn't need to. They only have had 309K cases and 43K deaths. No big deal.

Promoting not wearing masks in a country with 2.5 MILLION cases and 127,000 deaths is what idiots and/or killers do. But that's not what Steve was suggesting, I believe. I think it's personal, and *he* just doesn't want to wear a mask.

Personally, I find it's easier to avoid going anywhere when I can and wearing a mask when I can't is best.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 09:20 AM

Thanks elf! Yeah, I posted the new ones separately.

Underlying condition risk factors have changed, per the CDC. Pregnancy is in. Age is out.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-at-increased-risk.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fneed-extra-precautions%2Fpeople-at-higher-risk.html

Blicky

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 07:24 AM

Do try not to be so bloody daft.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 07:09 AM

By doing nothing, more people will get sick and die yet this is becoming the official policy in the US which is now passing its earlier all time high infection rate. This is because of the judgment that " we must not make the cure worse than the disease". So we open too early, force certain workers into infection chambers at work, roll back testing and contact tracing, have unmasked political gatherings inside and not support people who are unemployed. Go to crowded events andparty We must decide if we should try to save those who succumb to the virus at all if there are not enough beds, PPE or medical treatment.
We must not make treatment worse than the effect on the economy.
So go ahead and take no personal responsibility. DO NOT WEAR A MASK.
Be a fancy free Steve. You don't have to chant 'Lets do nothing' but just be sure to take no social respodsibility.
Not caring for the sick and dieing is easier than it sounds. It is the last intrusion on our lives. All that wasted money is saved. WE DON'T NEED TO BURY THE DEAD. That has shown to work best with ovens.

Gas is cheap now, so take a flight and smirk. That reciculated air in a hypo baric pressure tube is less dangerous than an infected TSA agent. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 04:39 AM

Well I suppose that I could wear a mask all winter too to make sure that I don't kill anyone by giving them flu, another disease that is infectious before symptoms show...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 08:48 PM

"Live with that."
As you're far away, and couldn't kill me or anyone I care about if you were infected, you just do whatever makes you happy.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 08:09 PM

Preventing infection is pretty important this end. My 91-year-old mum is in a care home six miles from here and we are all obsessed with making sure that they don't have an outbreak. We've been a bit shit nationally concerning all this here, but not as shit as you your end, it seems. But here in Cornwall we have done incredibly well. And we still don't have a mask-wearing culture. Live with that. We do.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 06:53 PM

Steve, if you search for "studies on wearing masks to prevent covid-19 transmission", you'll find loads of information. I'd post links, but I think you're smart enough to do your own research.

In any case, preventing Covid-19 infection may not be as important to you as it is to people in the US, since we've got rates of infection through the roof. Even so, it's worse in some states than others. I suppose if you don't have to worry about accidentally killing someone, you don't have to think about wearing a mask.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 04:20 PM

Your view may be coloured by the fact that your state is in the middle of a terrible coronavirus crisis, Maggie. My view may be coloured by the fact that we don't know anybody who's been infected and that Cornwall has the lowest infection rate in the country. So you want masks and I can't be arsed. Can we agree that we both get it?   ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 03:10 PM

Weird, I only copied the symptom list. It seems to have pasted the whole page. Sorry!

Live now first coronavirus task force briefing in months, on CNBC and likely elsewhere. Pence's head is so far up his ass it's coming out of his neck.

Ooh I am proud of that phrase.

---

Some of that extra text the page loaded into your cursor was removed. But those symptoms were reported in April and that doesn't seem to have changed. --mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 01:28 PM

Everybody knows the boat is leaking
Everybody knows the captain's drunk

The negative postive test is flawed by a third. The antibody test is not much better. Then that data gets massaged further for national reporting.

The Pense pandemic task force is 99.9 % pure refined gourmet bullshit. The more bullshit the less time they leave up the graph showing that the worst area is the southern border. Then they put you to sleep and you wake up refreshed 48 minutes later.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 12:21 PM

This virus grows stronger with our laziness, division, exhaustion and ignorance. Without people who are willing to sacrifice their life to believe mr trump we would be on the downward curve but instead we are at the all time high in infections and deaths.
There are no viruses that attack only the stupid but it helps.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 12:03 PM

CDC adds 3 new symptoms:

Congestion or runny nose
Nausea
Diarrhea

Posted: Apr 24, 2020 / 10:44 AM PDT / Updated: Apr 24, 2020 / 10:44 AM PDT

SAN FRANCISCO (KRON) – The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Friday expanded the list of coronavirus symptoms, which may appear anywhere from two days to two weeks after exposure.

Here is the updated list of coronavirus symptoms from the CDC:

Fever
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Chills
Repeated shaking with chills
Muscle pain
Headache
Sore throat
New loss of taste or smell

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 11:17 AM

Jon, your list makes the case basically - the only two "cons" that make any difference are the possible misuse and self-infection. That is always a risk with masks like this. The rest is for fussy users and are excuses for not wanting to wear one, not reasons why they shouldn't. Big difference.

It is now MANDATORY in Tarrant County, Texas, to wear a mask if you go into a business. Places are putting up announcements and saying they will offer a disposable mask to people who arrive without, but that no one can go in without a mask. This is in the most Republican county in Texas, as one poll revealed, yet it starts this evening at 6pm and runs through early August. The local officials are now finding themselves in the same place as New York City a couple of months ago and are finally taking it seriously. So don't bother with the "can't articulate clearly" or "waste management" excuses, just wear it.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 10:56 AM

Steve is indeed healed and back to his same old self
regretably.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 10:30 AM

Plenty of real scientists have expressed doubts.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 10:10 AM

I'll go with a real scientist in Dr. Fauci every time.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 10:07 AM

OK, so show me data supporting mask-wearing that doesn't have confounding factors.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:56 AM

I'll amend that last sentence to read:
Of course, at this point that pales in comparison to the number he killed with his politicization of and slow reaction to the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:49 AM

If Prez Jackass had been following his own CDC guidelines and wearing a mask in public and not disparaging their use all this time we'd have fewer deaths and fewer people soon to die and get sick. Of course that pales in comparison to number he killed with his politicization of and slow reaction to the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:48 AM

Um, there *are* data on masks helping.

There is also this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/dudes-who-wont-wear-masks/613375/?utm_source=digg

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:31 AM

And I do have to wonder how you get to be "a senior risk analyst"...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:25 AM

You have no more idea than I do as to how much or how little mask-wearing helps. There are many negatives, as has repeatedly been pointed out in this thread. Anyway, I've just bought a pack of five, just in case someone decides to force me to wear one.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:19 AM


Here is a fascinating graphic on long-term issues.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/whats-at-risk-an-18-month-view-of-a-post-covid-world/

The mask is to protect others. Every little bit helps.

And yes, a death rate of half of one percent *is* better than a death rate of 5%.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:15 AM

Whatever your figures are, they are meaningless in the way you put them. It's about time you learned the good manners to express things in a way that doesn't do the discourtesy of forcing us to do a whole load of unnecessary mental processing. What you do is not clever, even if you think it is.

I've just got back from Morrisons, busy as it's Friday. Again, I didn't do a count, but I should say that fewer than one person in ten were wearing masks.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 09:08 AM

Everything could be meaningless. But be that as it may
"wear the damn mask"

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 06:28 AM

With mask - 3% infection   Without mask 17% infection

Meaningless.

Here in Cornwall there is no mask-wearing culture, so most people are clearly stubborn, accidental people-killers. You have to wear them on buses (which are as rare around here as rocking horse shit anyway) and trains (nearest railway an hour's drive away) and if you go the doctor or hospital. The nurse at our medical centre gave me a sort of papery mask that she said I can use over and over again. I'm puzzling over the hygiene aspect of that, even though I'm an assiduously hygienic sort of chap myself. Two days ago in Morrisons a mask-wearing woman brushed past me to get a bag of frozen peas. Yep, made physical contact. I've had a fair number of similar and unwelcome close-ups like that with mask-wearers. Mask-wearers are far more likely to ignore the other cautions, it seems to me, though I haven't done any counts. You see masks worn under the nose, etc. If they make masks compulsory, yet don't give people loads of free masks, a lot of people are going to reuse masks that they shouldn't be reusing. There plenty of negatives that you mask-zealots are ignoring. Oh, and by the way, this county, full of those stubborn accidental people-killers, has the lowest infection rate in the country. We don't know of anyone who has had the disease and neither does anyone else we know. Well, we did hear of an outbreak in a care home 30 miles from here...

I am not anti-mask. A couple of you are so pro-mask that your posts are beginning to sound a bit evangelical. The fact is that the efficacy of masks in many settings is questionable. There are downsides, some dangerous, that you are ignoring. I don't laugh at people who wear masks and I'll wear a mask when I'm ordered to do so, and I'll do it properly. The case for the defence rests.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 05:27 AM

With mask - 3% infection   Without mask 17% infection.
oversimplified yes, since factors like viral load is even more important/

3 days before symptoms a carrier will be most infectious. Thats why health are workers treating the people with symptoms are as protected as they are.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 03:49 AM

Its not about you, Steve. - quite!

Most clinical looking masks have gaps but at the sides, deflecting the breath to the side and backwards. On face-to-face meetings that is a plus.

The real problem with masks is the way they are worn. I see mothers deliberately cross the loops to enhance the gap at the cheeks. While their children have them under their chins because of the restriction in breathing. Not even the bus drivers wear them, most of whom are nearing or over retirement age, though the older of that group seem to have disappeared currently. Not that I have observed many, I walk the 5 miles to town and not along the road where possible. Has anyone noticed how fat (ie vulnerable) a lot of bus drivers are?

My masks fit around the sides better, but then I chose carefully from the internet pictures and had them printed with my artwork advertising my website. Wearing on the bus is OK, but I wouldn't want to walk far in them. But if I take a bus it s because I am tired and the mask weighs heavy then.

FWIW the UK deaths graph has bottomed, and looking pretty flat at around 120/day mark (rolling average). The coming weekend may reveal something, numbers plummet Sunday/Monday which must be an artifact of reportage. I keep a spreadsheet and the FFT shows a strong spike at 7 and 3.5 days which is obvious on the daily graph.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 20 - 01:46 AM

Oh I don't know SRS, although I think I'd opt to wear a mask if going out and it being my decision, things are blurred to me. Fwiw, I' try to copy a bit of what the WHO had as "interim guidance" on 5th June. I'm too tired to try and go back and find the link and don't know if it has been updated since.

First off, I'll try to present one table:

Table 2. Examples of where the general public should be encouraged to use medical and non-medical masks in areas with
  known or suspected community transmission
    Situations/settings                         Population                                       Purpose of        Type of mask to consider
                                                                                                 mask use          wearing if recommended
                                                                                                                   locally
  
    Areas with known or suspected               General population in public settings, such      Potential         Non-medical mask
    widespread transmission and limited or      as grocery stores, at work, social               benefit for
    no capacity to implement other              gatherings, mass gatherings, closed              source control
    containment measures such as                settings, including schools, churches,
    physical distancing, contact tracing,       mosques, etc.
    appropriate testing, isolation and care
    for suspected and confirmed cases.
  
    Settings with high population density       People living in cramped conditions, and         Potential         Non-medical mask
    where physical distancing cannot be         specific settings such as refugee camps,         benefit for
    achieved; surveillance and testing          camp-like settings, slums                        source control
    capacity, and isolation and quarantine
    facilities are limited
  
    Settings where a physical distancing        General public on transportation (e.g., on a     Potential         Non-medical mask
    cannot be achieved (close contact)          bus, plane, trains)                              benefit for
                                                                                                 source control
                                                Specific working conditions which places
                                                the employee in close contact or potential
                                                close contact with others e.g., social
                                                workers, cashiers, servers
  
    Settings where physical distancing          Vulnerable populations:                          Protection        Medical mask
    cannot be achieved and increased risk
    of infection and/or negative outcomes       •     People aged =60 years
                                                •     People with underlying comorbidities,
                                                      such as cardiovascular disease or
                                                      diabetes mellitus, chronic lung
                                                      disease, cancer, cerebrovascular
                                                      disease, immunosuppression
  
    Any setting in the community*               Persons with any symptoms suggestive of          Source control    Medical mask
                                                COVID-19
  *This applies to any transmission scenario

Now I'll try to give what they see as pros and cons:

Potential benefits/advantages
The likely advantages of the use of masks by healthy people in the general public include:                                                   

• reduced potential exposure risk from infected persons before they develop symptoms;                                             
• reminding people to be compliant with other measures. However, this can also have the reverse effect (see below);                                                         
• potential social and economic benefits. Amidst the global shortage of surgical masks and PPE, encouraging the public to create their own fabric masks may promote individual enterprise and community integration. Moreover, the production of non-medical masks may offer a source of income for those able to manufacture masks within their communities. Fabric masks can also be a form of cultural expression, encouraging public acceptance of protection measures in general. The safe re-use of fabric masks will also reduce costs and waste and contribute to sustainability.                              
                                                                  
Potential harms/disadvantages
                                                                     
The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include:                                    
                                                                     
•    potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;(48, 49)
•    potential self-contamination that can occur if non-medical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify.
•    potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;                                 
•    potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for         
    long hours;(50)                                                
•    difficulty with communicating clearly;                        
•    potential discomfort;(41, 51)                                 
•    a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene;                           
•    poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children;                                                
•    waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard;
•    difficult communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading;
•    disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 11:09 PM

Steve, it's a stubborn stance and ignores the solid amount of information that indicates that wearing masks does protect you and others.

I'm pretty sure Mossy was simply yanking chains with that signoff.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 08:45 PM

It's Greg. He probably just forgot about "Bill".
But what he said... the mask is to protect OTHER PEOPLE if you're an asymptomatic carrier. If you don't care that you may kill other people accidentally, don't wear a mask.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 08:35 PM

Er, and that's the unsettled science...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 08:33 PM

"Greg"...?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mossback
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 08:23 PM

Its not about you, Steve.

Its about protecting OTHERS who might become infected by someone not wearing a mask.

Its about being responsible and considerate of other folks.

Best,

Greg