BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 12:59 PM

One thing that's been crystal clear in this pandemic is that "sick" and "infected" are absolutely nothing like the same thing. I'm not slicing anything thin. I'm remarking upon a blatant inaccuracy from a chap with form in that area. In a crisis during which the truth has regularly been a victim, I think we should insist on it whenever we humanly can.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 02:04 PM

It's a pandemic...!!!

I'd agree it's wiser to be equally tuff on both enemies and allies
if they do not respect objectivity and truth;
carelessly spreading misinformation...


Allies talking unscientific bollocks in public are a liability,
and a tactical gift to the enemy...

We are the ones who need to be the more stringently sensible,
and try our best not to be seen as fukwits
by the wavering undecided as yet unvaccinated...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 02:12 PM

Couldn't agree more. Olé!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 03:03 PM

Dr. Klotman's Video Message - Week 77 Issued today, Sept. 10, 2021.

Baylor College of Medicine's Dr. Paul Klotman reviews the numbers, projections, the latest on vaccine efficacy, fear associated with the delta variant and the latest science.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 07:01 PM

He's a sane voice all right, Maggie. I got half way through, got his message then had to stop to do other stuff. I'll try to remember as close as I can to what he said half way through, that "the only chance we have is to vaccine our way out." Spot on. We will never mask our way out or social distance our way out, not from now on. We must tell everyone how to be sensible, to know how the thing is spread but to allow everyone their freedoms to live normal lives. The playing field has changed, and it's all about vaccines. Unfortunately, unlike here, tens of millions of your countrymen have yet to realise that. Even Joe Biden, bless him, is sounding desperate about it. And let's not be parish-pump about it. We are not safe until the world is safe. And that means vaccinating everyone, everywhere.

A dear friend of mine has a lovely daughter, now in her 20s, who has achieved amazing things in the Royal College of Music. Next week she's playing the solo part in Mozart's clarinet concerto with our local orchestra. I won't be going because I don't want to be up close and personal with hundreds of other people for two hours in our local hall, not while the case rates are so high round here. It breaks my heart, but the risk just isn't worth it as far as I'm concerned. .

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 09:11 PM

a lighter note - T-shirt competition inspires Sydney's lockdown creativity for a good cause

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Sep 21 - 04:04 AM

I think we'll be offered booster jabs fairly soon. We have both had two jabs of Astra Zeneca, but apparently the boosters might be a different vaccine. We're both wholeheartedly 'up for it' and will be thankful for the opportunity to safeguard our immunity. Husband being black and working in a school (while the pupils are present) is at risk, as am I, being elderly and with a heart condition, so 'Bring It On'!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 21 - 06:21 AM

My third jab was mildly sore just like the first two.
When Isreali data is combined with global data, Moderna was slightly better than Phizer and Az.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 21 - 09:36 PM

If memory serves, Dick Army in the dead of night inserted language into a bill giving amnesty to vaccine makers that protected them from being sued by concerned parents that were misled by a UK doctor over mercury content as a preservative. Dick Army was a Congressman who supported the Tea Party loonies on the far right. 24 years ago the hybrid seeds of the wierd right and whacky vaccine conspiracies were planted in the politics of America. Jenny McCarthy and other wierdos kept up thier campaign for years. Today when vaccines are even more important the murky history of anti vaccinators has reached a critical mass. Dick Army went on to be a hero of the Tea Party, although Dick was working against their vaccine conspiracy. He was surely rewarded by big pharma and was a pioneer of groups that were historically insurrectionist friendly like the Tea Party.
I do not give him the credit for the white nationalist nazis or KKK aspects of the current Republican strategy and he did not know how far his Newt Gingrich antics would be amplified but he did start a political fire in the Capitol that night at 3AM. To me it supports Chaos theory about how a small flap of an insect's wings could grow into a deadly storm.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Sep 21 - 10:41 PM

Dick Armey is from Texas, he represented the district that touches Fort Worth on the north and covers much of Denton County. No surprise there. He was/is a jerk.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Sep 21 - 07:43 AM

1 in 500 Americans have died from Covid. Hospitals in the South, Alaska, and even Virginia are so full that trauma and standard care for heart attacks and strokes are absent or limited.
I have made speculations about scenarios that have magnified antivaxxer sentiments but I hold Facebook and Trump most culpable for resistence to vaccination. Face book for amplifying OUTRAGE and Trump for his lies and behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Sep 21 - 03:57 PM

Live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse, as the biker saying goes.

The Sturgis crowd might have to settle for two out of three.

How an embalmer sees it

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Sep 21 - 08:24 PM

Being inside for a year has been associated with an increase in nearsightedness in children. The study I heard about was with third graders. Take'm outside sometimes, apparently...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 21 - 01:59 PM

New York City now requires proof of vaccination if you want to dine indoors. Three women from Texas decided to beat up the hostess who asked for proof of vaccination.

Tourists Attack N.Y.C. Restaurant Hostess Over Vaccine Proof, Police Say
Enforcement of a city policy requiring proof of vaccination to dine indoors began Monday. Days later, a hostess at Carmine’s was assaulted after asking three women for their vaccine cards, the police said.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 21 - 02:08 PM

Caught On Video: Carmine’s Hostess Attacked After Asking Tourists For Proof Of Vaccination

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 21 - 10:23 PM

FDA advisory panel backs coronavirus boosters only for the elderly, those at high risk
The twin votes Friday represented a heavy blow to the Biden administration’s sweeping effort to shore up nearly all Americans’ protection amid the spread of the highly contagious delta variant.

Chances are this won't open, they deploy the paywall pretty quickly. But here are the high points:

WASHINGTON — An influential federal advisory panel overwhelmingly rejected a plan Friday to give Pfizer COVID-19 booster shots to most Americans, but it endorsed the extra shots for those who are 65 or older or run a high risk of severe disease.

The twin votes represented a heavy blow to the Biden administration’s sweeping effort to shore up nearly all Americans’ protection amid the spread of the highly contagious delta variant.

The decision was made by a committee of outside experts who advise the Food and Drug Administration.

In a surprising turn, the panel first rejected, by a vote of 16-2, boosters for nearly everyone. Members cited a lack of safety data on extra doses and also raised doubts about the value of mass boosters, rather than ones targeted to specific groups.

Then, in an 18-0 vote, it endorsed the extra shot for select portions of the U.S. population — namely, those most at risk from the virus.

That would help salvage part of the White House’s campaign but would still be a huge step back from the huge plan proposed by administration a month ago to offer booster shots of both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to nearly all Americans eight months after they get their second dose.

Friday’s vote was just the first step. The FDA itself is expected to make a decision on boosters in the next few days, though it usually follows the committee’s recommendations.

The offering of boosters is also subject to approval by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A CDC advisory panel is expected to take up the question on Wednesday. The CDC has said it is considering boosters for older people, nursing home residents and front-line health care workers, rather than all adults.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 06:05 AM

Boosters are going to be offered to over-50s this end (as well as vulnerable groups, etc.) six months after the second jab. The thing is, we have scant knowledge at the moment about how long immunity lasts. I'm thinking that getting the world vaccinated should have a higher priority than giving boosters in rich western countries. We won't be safe until we're all safe.

But I'll still be accepting my booster...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 06:09 AM

On a lighter note, when I clicked your link I got this message:

Thank you for being a patron of the Dallas Morning News. Unfortunately, our site is unavailable to European Union visitors...

Clearly, news of brexit hasn't yet percolated through to the Dallas Morning News!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 09:23 AM

The Dallas Morning News isn't on view to most of the US unless you are a subscriber. But considering that Dallas is the center of the universe, they should address that issue of readability around the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 10:43 AM

Sydney, Australia-Man leaves Hospital after fighting COVID-19 for 399 days A Sydney man who spent 399 days in hospital recovering from COVID-19 has urged the community to get vaccinated, saying the virus is real.

Sixty-nine-year-old David Avila Mellado was admitted to Westmead Hospital last year on July 29 after getting infected. Earlier this month, he was finally able to go home.

"I start with the COVID, I was in a coma for a few weeks, I came back here, didn't know my name didn't know nothing," he said.

"But now I can say my name. I can say thank you." (read on)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 01:57 PM

There are children with long haul Covid. There is a propensity for white matter damage to the brains of those who have intellectual deficits from the disease.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 03:13 PM

The good news is, covid is nature fighting back against far right religious Americans
and their international devoted social media followers..

The bad news, is it leaves the survivors even more of an uncontrollable deranged danger
to the rest of humanity - and our planet...


.. Sadly as in all wars, there are too many innocent collateral damage victims

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 03:39 PM

You assume virus has political proclivities. The sad part is true.
However the war part is too anthropological. 1 out of 3 ain't bad.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 04:22 PM

.. maybe covid is an apolitical virus...???

But if it is seen as an antibody of our planets immune defense system,
then it is very effective at taking out over-confident belligerent pathogens
which place too much faith in god and guns...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Sep 21 - 09:33 PM

One of the protestors in a recent "freedom' march wore a shirt saying 'God is my vaccine' ...

No doubt she had received her babyhood & childhood vaccinations as she appears to be of an age when every parent lined up & anti-vaxxers did not exist.

Recently I saw a 1950s photo of a gi-normous ward full of iron lungs with a nurse sitting next to each one.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 06:15 AM

From The Observer

To mask or not to mask? Opinion split on London underground


"Studies suggest masks cut Covid-19 transmission by up to 80%.Although there is disagreement about how much protection different types of mask offer the wearer, the science indicates that pretty much any covering protects the community from the wearer. It is this uneven interdependence that means masks are extremely effective at revealing hypocrisy.

Few places demonstrate the contested role of the mask more clearly than the London underground system. “Face coverings must be worn for the full duration of journeys on the TfL network, including inside our stations and bus stations,” states the Transport for London website, which also lists no less than 11 categories of exemption. This message is continually repeated over loudspeakers, and on advertising hoardings within underground stations.

Yet as many as half the travellers on the system are now ignoring this stipulation. On Friday, I travelled from Queen’s Park to Oxford Circus on the Bakerloo line. When I got off, there were 40 people in the carriage – only 16 of whom were wearing masks."


In my local Morrisons i would say about a third of the customers now wear masks. The non mask wearers include people of all ages.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 06:41 AM

"The science indicates..."

Yep, I read this too. That assertion, without enlarging on the "science" referred to or giving a link (which the article didn't), is weasel words.

The reason that this assertion should never be made is that it is impossible to gather scientific evidence for the efficacy of public mask-wearing without it being fatally clouded by confounding factors. "Masks save lives," and comments along those lines, are the absolute negation of science.

I wear a mask where I'm legally obliged to, and I would wear one if travelling on the Underground (which I may be doing quite soon as it happens), as the rules require. I don't break rules and don't advocate test anyone else should. But the usefulness of mask-wearing by the general public is either a matter of opinion or received wisdom. Take your pick.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 07:01 AM

That, not test. By the way, ""studies suggest..." is also weasel words.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 09:24 AM

Moderna seems to have the best no-hospitalization numbers...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 10:25 AM

Weasel words to you, science many of the rest of us. Ignore masks at your own peril.

I attended an event in a large open indoor arena space yesterday and I'd say about 50% or a little more were wearing masks. I wore a mask the whole time.

The stastics show that one in every 500 Americans has now died of COVID-19. As the pandemic progresses, it will continue to affect unvaccinated adults (anti-vaxxers, Trump supporters, and those who simply have not been able to get to a vaccination location), and children (I consider them politically neutral at this point, they are under 12 and a vaccination isn't available for them yet). So there will be a continued thinning of the willfully-stupid population. As many people get their information and opinions in their personal political news silos, this isn't something to celebrate. Hopefully Biden's insistence upon the next push of vaccinations by large employers and government contractors will break up the surging spread.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 10:51 AM

You're confused. According to all the punditry, any "peril" will be faced by the people who come into contact with the maskless me, not me: "Masks protect others from catching coronavirus from you," as they say. Still, as I'm fully vaccinated and I feel well, I suppose I'm probably one of the 99 in every hundred people who are supposed to wear masks pointlessly. We can't go on like this. The people who are truly imperilling you in your country (less so in mine, though they're there) are the tens of millions of vaccine-refusers. They're my target too. Keep pushing masks, though, and we'll be wearing them forever. If coronavirus is here to stay, which I suppose it is, that's what will happen.

As for the science, there isn't any that can get over even a low bar, and I've looked and looked, begod. There can be be no controlled experimentation, and confounding factors are rife and irremovable.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 11:35 AM

I went on vacay right before Delta got a strangle hold and had maskless outings. But I would rather be "confused" and be a bit safer than to be as certain as Steve and possibly suffer extreme inconvenience. So I mask for myself and my neighbor and make encounters 70% safer.
Lab creation of Covid 19 is an argument that has become scientifically more robust. The animal theory has as little/no confirmation as the biblical talking snake and has remained stagnant. Deliberate weapon production has no evidence but an accident during wicked research is more possible.
When will we know? It would take a whistle blower, espionage data interception, or a discovery of 2 more segments of other unrelated deady virus.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:00 PM

Steve, you need to stop characterizing others' understanding of science based upon your own. There is no confusion here. Masks protect me, and protect others. End. of. story.

Breakthrough cases of COVID-19.

Your Health: I Got A 'Mild' Breakthrough Case. Here's What I Wish I'd Known (via National Public Radio, Sept. 12, 2021)

I was just one more example of our country's tug and pull between fantasies of a post-COVID-19 summer and the realities of our still-raging pandemic, where even the vaccinated can get sick.

Not only was I sick, but I'd brought the virus home and exposed my 67-year-old father and extended family during my first trip back to the East Coast since the start of the pandemic. It was just the scenario I had tried to avoid for a year and a half. And it definitely was not the summer vacation I had anticipated.

Where did I get it? Who knows. Like so many Americans, I had loosened up with wearing masks and social distancing after getting fully vaccinated. We had flown across the country, seen friends, stayed at a hotel, eaten indoors and, yes, even went to a long-delayed wedding with other vaccinated people.

I ended up in quarantine at my father's house. Two rapid antigen tests (taken a day apart) came back negative, but I could tell I was starting to feel sick. After my second negative test, the nurse leveled with me. "Don't hang your hat on this," she said of the results. Sure enough, a few days later the results of a PCR test for the coronavirus (this one sent to a lab) confirmed what had become obvious by then.

It was a miserable five days. My legs and arms ached, my fever crept up to 103 and every few hours of sleep would leave my sheets drenched in sweat. I'd drop into bed exhausted after a quick trip down to the kitchen. To sum it up, I'd put my breakthrough case of COVID-19 right up there with my worst bouts of flu. Even after my fever cleared up, I spent the next few weeks feeling low.

Of course, I am very lucky. I didn't go up against the virus with a naïve immune system, like millions of Americans did until vaccines were widely available. And, in much of the world, vaccines are still a distant promise.

"You probably would have gotten much sicker if you had not been vaccinated," Francesca Torriani, an infectious disease physician at the University of California, San Diego, explained to me recently.

You've Had a COVID ‘Breakthrough Infection’—Can You Really Spread It to Others? (via Yale Medicine, published August 11, 2021)
Experts stress that vaccination is the best way to prevent infection—and transmission.

COVID-19 breakthrough infections—where a fully vaccinated person becomes infected with the coronavirus—are occurring across the globe, due, in large part, to the highly contagious Delta variant. Here in the United States, many Americans are concerned for their unvaccinated loved ones, including children and those who are immuno-compromised—and given this news, for themselves as well.

Many of us believed that the COVID-19 vaccines offered complete protection from infection, not just from severe disease and death. And though these breakthrough cases are relatively rare, they are a reminder that the pandemic is far from over.

Apart from getting sick, there is also worry that with the Delta variant, a fully vaccinated person who becomes infected may spread the coronavirus to others. According to recent reports from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), this can happen—a finding that may be a game-changer, affecting decisions on how to safely go back to school; return to the office; attend concerts or theater and sporting events; and even whether it’s safe to date.

“The CDC data comes at a critical time, when cases—mostly due to the Delta variant—are on the rise in the U.S. Areas with low vaccination coverage are being hit especially hard with the highest daily case rates in months,” says Yale Medicine infectious diseases expert Jaimie Meyer, MD, MS. “Even though many people were ready to throw away their masks and get back to ‘normal’ life this summer, the latest spikes show us that the pandemic persists. We have to use the CDC data to reassess our understanding of our personal and community risk.”

5 Things Vaccinated People Need to Know About Breakthrough Infection (via Houston Methodist, a large hospital and medical system in Texas, Published August 17, 2021)

COVID-19 Delta variant cases are rising — especially among the unvaccinated — causing a rapidly growing surge for our communities and our hospitals.

But, you're vaccinated, so does the Delta variant really mean anything for you?

Unfortunately, yes.

"The new Delta variant spreads much easier than versions of the virus we've seen previously. The good news is that, in terms of preventing severe disease, this variant is still largely susceptible to vaccination. However, no vaccine is ever 100% effective at preventing infection, and breakthrough infections are occurring," says Dr. Drews.

This is OK, though, since vaccines aren't the only safety measure we have to protect ourselves from getting sick and spreading illness.

"It's once again time for each of us to take action towards flattening the curve — even those of us who are vaccinated," says Dr. Drews. "This means putting our masks back on and taking other precautions we've seen make a difference throughout this pandemic."

So, as we take on this new COVID-19 surge, here are five things vaccinated individuals need to know.

1. What the numbers say about your risk
"Breakthrough infections are occurring, but the truly good news is that vaccinated individuals who do get COVID-19 are much less likely to be hospitalized than those who aren't vaccinated," says Dr. Drews. "The death rate is also much, much lower for vaccinated individuals."

According to CDC data, vaccinated individuals are:

8 times less likely to get COVID-19
25 times less likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19
25 times less likely to die of COVID-19

"This is welcome news since it reaffirms that the vaccines are very successful at their primary job — preventing serious disease," says Dr. Drews. "In fact, recent estimates suggest that COVID-19 vaccines have saved a quarter of a million lives and prevented more than 1 million hospitalizations."

In most cases, fully vaccinated people who do get infected with the virus are asymptomatic or experience only mild symptoms. So, while the vaccines aren't perfect, they're pretty darn close.

"The major concern about breakthrough infections during this surge is that fully vaccinated people can inadvertently spread COVID-19 to others, and it may be hard to determine how common this is," warns Dr. Drews.

This is why it's so important for all of us to take precautions right now.

"We must all take steps to not only prevent getting sick, but also prevent spreading COVID-19 to someone more vulnerable — even if that person is vaccinated and his or her risk is lower than it was previously," adds Dr. Drews.

2. What's risky, what's still safe and when to wear a mask
With COVID-19 cases rising by the day, you might be looking for help understanding what's still safe and what's risky again.

"If you're vaccinated, you can still feel relatively safe gathering indoors with a small group of vaccinated individuals," says Dr. Drews. "You'll want to be more cautious when a larger group is involved or you are in an indoor public space."

If cases are high in your area, Dr. Drews recommends moving large gatherings outdoors, as well as taking extra precautions indoors when you don't know the vaccination status of people around you.

As for those extra precautions, here are six times and places to start wearing a mask and social distancing again:

• While running errands
  
• In an indoor public space
  
• Attending a worship service
  
• While using public transportation (including during domestic travel)
  
• In a hospital, clinic or doctor's office
  
• Visiting with someone who is high-risk

"You may also choose to be more judicious about traveling and spending time in indoor spaces where wearing a mask and maintaining your distance are challenging — such as at bars, restaurants and group exercise classes, for instance," recommends Dr. Drews.

There is a lot more to each of these articles.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:04 PM

I have no certainties and you won't find any in that post. Even if the science re masks became miraculously strong (which it can't, for reasons I've given, but hey ho), there STILL wouldn't be any certainties. There never are in science. The science behind global heating is rock-solid but still there are no certainties. Ironically, you make this assertion, which is unsupportable by evidence, as a certainty: "So I mask for myself and my neighbor and make encounters 70% safer." Like to tell me how you arrived at that??

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:29 PM

"Steve, you need to stop characterizing others' understanding of science based upon your own. There is no confusion here. Masks protect me, and protect others. End. of. story."

That's as far away from any understanding of science as it's possible to get.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:29 PM

I don't bother with statistics...

Obviously, no certainties..

But I just continue voluntarily wearing masks, using anti bac hand gel, and social distancing,
based on a well informed reasonable probability it just might
help keep me, my loved ones, and any strangers I encounter
safe and alive...

It is a pain in the arse, and masks are uncomfortable,
and likely mostly an ineffective effort,
but there are worst things in life to endure..

It's my free independent choice.

The real sheeple are all the easily manipuated brainwashed conformist alt right / relgious death cultists...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 12:31 PM

A good, sound, sane post. The difference between us is that I exercise MY free choice by wearing masks when compulsory. My arguments are not rebellion.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 01:01 PM

..But I also wear masks as my futile protest in a tory town centre of mostly maskless inconsiderate morons...

Considering I look more like an old working class ukipper, than a lefty SJW..

I'll do whatever I can to confuse the gammon buggers who might presume I'm one of theirs...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 01:53 PM

Well I know I run the risk of being associated with such types, but I am not of them....

Here's where I am:

I don't think masks do much good, if any.

In fact, I think that the majority of mask-wearers are guilty of mask-abuse (using the same mask for days, in and out of their snot-rag pockets and contaminating their notes and coins, left festering on the dashboard, down-up-down-up, fiddled around with, scratching nose through...), any or all of which renders masks potentially worse than useless...

I want to show my face and I want to see others' faces too.

If one in a hundred of us is infected, then 99 in a hundred are wearing masks for no good reason and are not protecting anybody.

I'm sick of seeing mask-litter everywhere I go...even in Bude...

I've seen plenty of examples of mask-wearers being complacent. Coming up close, reaching across me in shops. I can honestly say that not one single unmasked person has ever done that to me, and I don't do it to other people.

Finally, there can't be good science with regard to mask efficacy. I won't repeat myself again on that one. We wear masks mostly because "higher authorities" are constantly pushing them. And they have no better evidence than we do.

I've kept every rule on this to the letter ever since the first lockdown. I won't rebel. But I'm wondering what kind of a country we're turning into when we are told that for months on end we can't be in the same house as our loved ones, we can't have Christmas, we can't go here and there and that we must hide the one physical attribute that is the most human of all, our faces.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 02:48 PM

punkfolkrocker wrote: I don't bother with statistics...

Statistics is (are?) interesting.

For example, in the UK, we know the number of vaccinated people but not the number of unvaccinated people, so some claims are misleading:
Take care with claims about unvaccinated case rates

When masks became no-longer compulsory on trains around here we bought some higher spec (FFO2) ones.

The other day I was in a busy art gallery and realised I had to sneeze. Do I sneeze in my mask or what?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Sep 21 - 06:14 PM

Whatever the stats...

It is an objective fact that too many folks I encounter
who seem sensible and considerate enough to wear masks,
are too inept at wearing them effectively and safely..

I can guess there is a factor of passive aggressive deliberate misuse,
from those anti maskers so timid of breaking compulsary mask wearing regulations
that they comply by defiantly wearing them wrong with their noses poking out...???

Then there are the many good folks who do agree with wearing masks
but still fail to do it properly.
They are a frustrating liability...

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 12:31 AM

Steve, when the bickering is removed, it really isn't a good move on your part to continue the conversation. Your view on masks has registered and been rejected. Leave it at that. You combine science and opinion as if they are the same thing, and dismiss those who have a very good reason for wearing masks to save their health and lives. "It could be that masks are incredibly effective. But I don't think so." STOP RIGHT THERE. Just give it a rest.

No more.

Most of us don't agree with you, but as you come in and argue again and again how it doesn't work, you feed into the arguments of the antivaxxers, and we're just not having that here. I don't want to close this thread, but my options are to block you or stop the conversation.

It's in your court. We'll see how this goes in the morning.

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 04:05 AM

I agree Stilly that bickering on and on and on serves no purpose really. And perhaps it would be better if people could just 'agree to disagree'.
We always wear a mask (paper ones that we throw away after use) Our lovely neighbour gets multi-packs of them for us in a Poundsavers shop when she visits a nearby little town.
But we don't mind at all wearing one. (Cheeky husband says it 'improves me'!!) However, we very much respect the views and feelings of those who can't bear having their noses/mouths covered and who believe there is no benefit. Each to his own. But we personally need to protect ourselves, being a bit vulnerable.
Same as getting a vaccine/booster etc. We wouldn't 'harp on' to anyone about it, but just quietly (and thankfully) whizz off to our local surgery to get the latest offering (booster soon!)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 04:28 AM

Well I haven't dismissed anybody. I've said repeatedly that I respect the wishes of those who want to wear masks, and that I would personally never break rules. I think that's a respectable position. Please don't misrepresent me then go for the last word. On the issue of masks, that's me done now. OK?

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 07:20 AM

No, Steve is merely forthright and speaks his mind without timidity.
We all have our different characters on here, and for me, it makes it all the more interesting!

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 07:45 AM

Cheers for that, Eliza! I agree with you, and, naturally, I'm not at all biased! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:28 AM

Hee hee Steve!! Careful, you might end up buying the Daily Mail and voting Tory (Quick! Send for an ambulance!!)
I often feel that Mudcat is rather like a lively staff-meeting in a school. There's the young student teacher tentatively making a tiny comment, the Head Teacher trying to keep things moving along and squashing the strident teachers. Then the airy-fairy Arts teacher who side-tracks the discussion with aesthetic remarks. Not to mention the Politics/Economics person who knows an awful lot and wants to enlighten the others.
Me? I'm the dotty old tea lady. "Tea and crumpets anybody?" (yap yap yappity yap)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:43 AM

You forgot to mention the science teacher... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Senoufou
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:56 AM

Ah yes, the Science teacher! Has had a very extensive education, knows and updates everyone about many interesting topics in the world of Science, and enjoys gourmet dinners with fine wine.
Actually I had a Physics teacher who was a rampant misogynist and despised his female pupils, a Chemistry teacher who also taught rugby (ferocious chap) plus a really lovely Biology teacher who knew how to teach with enthusiasm and insight. Thanks to them all I passed with Grade 1 in all three subjects.
My favourite though was a very camp, gay English teacher, Mr Shearn. He read out to us all the poems and quoted Shakespeare with feeling. He acted out the parts as if he was on stage. I was fascinated by him and got an 'A' at A level thanks to his dedication.
It takes all sorts eh? (innit?)

Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 02:36 PM

In Alaska, I've only associated with a few people, all vaccinated and careful, and while there was a Summer stint without masks, the onset of the Delta variant along with a substantial unvaccinated population in the State and a consequent loss of spare beds in the local hospitals has led to renewed mask self-mandate, the 'self' part of it being that Anchorage has elected a Mayor who is not into the whole 'action' response to the pandemic. Likewise the Governor is no better. They both owe their electinos to the right wing pro-business people (who are not the same thing, but if you campaign carefully you can get a majority).

And the folks I assoiate with now have other associates who have been marked by Covid infections. This has lowered the degrees of separation we have experienced from the disease.

Meanwhile due to some youtube presenting with other folks, all of whom were declared vaccinated, I'd been exposed to some people I know but haven't socialized with for over a year. Anyhow, about twelve days after starting the project I awoke with a sore throat and a slight temperature. My regualar friends suggested I get a Covid test and I agreed, although I suspected I was fighting off a non-Covid virus. I was able to look up among the various test options in town and register over my cellphone. Then I took a fifteen minute drive to a church parking lot where there was a line of cars. As I have found in Alaska, things were run very efficiently. There were two health aides at once taking samples from cars, and things moved faster than I expected. They promised to post results within 48 hours and it was more like 30 hours. And it was negative as I expected.

looking both around the world and back in history, it seems that the level of variation in response and experience is not that exceptional. There are many photos you can find of people wearing masks during the Great flu pandemic, but many not so garbed. The medical establishment then was far more primitive than that of today. And if you look at the Israeli situation, it seemed to start out so progressively and has deteriorated sharply with many vaccine deniers and breakthrough infections, and I believe that most other countries have their version of non-vaccinated at various levels of fantasy and mistrust.

Wishing everyone well and coming back to the standby slogan: "Keep Calm, Vaccinate, Mask-on".