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BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19

McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 22 - 05:55 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 22 - 03:42 PM
Dave the Gnome 23 Jan 22 - 02:44 PM
Nigel Parsons 23 Jan 22 - 02:38 PM
Dave the Gnome 23 Jan 22 - 02:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 22 - 02:18 PM
Mrrzy 23 Jan 22 - 12:40 PM
Donuel 23 Jan 22 - 11:40 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 22 - 11:36 AM
Charmion 23 Jan 22 - 11:30 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 22 - 11:25 AM
Charmion 23 Jan 22 - 11:24 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 22 - 10:02 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 22 - 08:48 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 22 - 08:23 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 22 - 08:11 AM
Donuel 23 Jan 22 - 08:06 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 22 - 06:20 AM
SPB-Cooperator 23 Jan 22 - 05:59 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 22 - 05:27 AM
Doug Chadwick 23 Jan 22 - 05:09 AM
SPB-Cooperator 23 Jan 22 - 05:08 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 22 - 05:01 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 22 - 04:35 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 22 - 04:32 AM
Doug Chadwick 23 Jan 22 - 04:23 AM
Backwoodsman 23 Jan 22 - 04:08 AM
Mrrzy 22 Jan 22 - 11:12 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 Jan 22 - 10:09 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 22 - 07:48 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Jan 22 - 07:39 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Jan 22 - 06:55 PM
Donuel 22 Jan 22 - 06:51 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 Jan 22 - 12:18 PM
Nigel Parsons 21 Jan 22 - 11:49 AM
SPB-Cooperator 21 Jan 22 - 11:34 AM
Donuel 21 Jan 22 - 08:01 AM
Donuel 21 Jan 22 - 07:43 AM
Donuel 20 Jan 22 - 04:14 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 22 - 03:02 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Jan 22 - 12:15 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 22 - 11:51 AM
Mrrzy 20 Jan 22 - 09:49 AM
Donuel 20 Jan 22 - 09:40 AM
Donuel 20 Jan 22 - 09:10 AM
Nigel Parsons 20 Jan 22 - 06:17 AM
Donuel 19 Jan 22 - 04:29 PM
Donuel 19 Jan 22 - 04:06 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Jan 22 - 03:53 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Jan 22 - 03:27 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 05:55 PM

The trouble is the choice not to wear a mask in a time when thousands of people are being treated for what is a life-threatening disease, and many hundreds are dying imposes upon other people.

Freedom of choice to do things that do not damage other people is our right. But, to quote Abraham Lincoln (among others) "My right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins."

Even aside from the small, but still real danger of infecting others (even in the case where we are properly vaccinated and recently tested), not wearing a mask in a crowded tube train is liable to make some people feel threatened, and it also serves to encourage others to choose to discard their marks. Anti-social behaviour is infectious.

There is no equivalence in such circumstances between choosing to wear a mask, and choosing not to wear a mask. The former has no potential to cause harm to other people.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 03:42 PM

Cheers Dave. I've said all along that I respect your choice to wear a mask whenever you want. I just feel that it's always OK to question what amounts to questionable science. I also see the other side, that it's always OK to respect the precautionary principle. I've also said that all along. But I do feel that adopting the precautionary principle, without some pretty convincing evidence, does not entitle you to force that on others. So if you see me next week in Morrisons without a mask, don't judge me and I won't judge you.

And beware of the evangelists on both sides. They won't get us through this. They just alienate.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 02:44 PM

Here is an even stranger link!

https://www.perio.org/press-release/new-study-links-periodontitis-and-covid%E2%80%9019-complications/#:~:text=Of%20the%20568%20p


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 02:38 PM

Donuel: Nigel, you also were early to report the child covid diabetes link some time ago. It appears to be serious.
No, Mrrzy reported it (or mentioned it). I just added links for anyone who wished to read further.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 02:33 PM

I wear a mask out of choice. Having read the case for and against I decided that I would rather wear one. Steve has read the same and decided the opposite but wears one when mandated anyway. Neither of us have tried to force our opinions on anyone else so why all the acrimony? It's becoming like a religion. Wear a mask where and when you have to. At all other times the choice is yours. Make that choice by all means but don't try to force your choice on anyone else. Absolutely bugger all to do with common sense and all to do with intolerance and extremism.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 02:18 PM

"Unmasked. You wouldn't know...¡

Precisely. That makes it worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 12:40 PM

Apparently the antivaxxers are claiming issues with male fertility, but it is covid, not the vaccine, that can reduce male fertility.
Not posting any of the several links where I read that.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 11:40 AM

Downtown today there is supposed to be a mass NO VAX demonstration.
Authorities ask to avoid the area. Yesterday was an anti abortion -no exemptions- demonstration.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 11:36 AM

..."but there’s very little sympathy when the consequences of defiance come to bite the unmasked and/or unvaccinated in the arse."

Unvaccinated, definitely. Unmasked? You wouldn't know...


"Circumstances alter cases"

I've used this expression all my life and you're the first other person I've seen using it. Kudos!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 11:30 AM

Further to my last, the current lockdown in Ontario seems to be working as intended. Schools opened last week, and business closures will end on 31 January. We’ll be back to the 50 percent rule, with masks, and grateful for it.

Meanwhile, the vaccination campaign is chugging along.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 11:25 AM

"Common sense" is all too frequently a term used by people whose attitude seems to be "Well I don't know much about this, if anything at all, and I haven't looked it up, and I don't need to know anyway, I'll leave that to the boffins, etc., but I can still have a valid and loudly-shouted opinion because, well, I've been around, I've got common sense and I'm entitled, innit." Just like the bloke on the park I mentioned.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 11:24 AM

Before COVID hit, I thought wearing a mask, especially indoors, was a strong indication of criminal intent in anyone not female, Muslim, and devout.

Circumstances alter cases.

Britain seems to have descended into social chaos on this issue. I believe — don’t know for sure, but it’s logical and consistent with practice so far — that the Ontario Ministry of Health will rescind its mask orders when the hospitals are no longer jammed with COVID patients.

I’m good with that.

At present, very few vaccinated people who catch the disease even need to be admitted, so the vast majority of in-patients with COVID are unvaccinated.

I have read that the current vaccination goal is 95 percent with at least one shot, and the current level (as of yesterday) is 84.7 percent with one shot, 78.3 percent with two and 35.7 percent with three. On Friday, Health Canada approved our first oral anti-viral drug treatment for COVID.

Even when restaurants, hair-cutting parlours and gyms are allowed to open their doors, clients and customers have to show identification and vaccination certificates that are checked with a QR code reader. All business establishments and gathering spaces are limited to 50 percent capacity. Lots of restaurants, bars and shops have gone under, and no one knows when live music will be allowed indoors again.

People here carp and cavil about the rules, and defy them when they think they can get away with it, but there’s very little sympathy when the consequences of defiance come to bite the unmasked and/or unvaccinated in the arse.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 10:02 AM

"...a breach of common courtesy." I thought it was supposed to be about protecting people..."

It's about both. They are not exactly mutually exclusive. Unless there are very strong reasons I believe we have a duty to do both, and see that as an important aspect of the solidarity that we owe to each other.

I quite agree with Steve when it comes to distrusting the term common sense. Just because most people believe something is right or wrong does not imply that I should fall in line - though it may be a reason to reconsider how sure I am in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 08:48 AM

"Shaw Common Sense never bowled me over."

Thanks for the uncalled-for barb (tediously, yet again). As it happens, I've never assumed a mantle of "common sense" in my life. I once worked with a man on the parks department when I was a student. One day, he roared at me that he didn't need no universities or degrees or exams because HE had a degree in "common sense," vigorously tapping his temple. Six months later (after a sacking for doing a terrible job and absconding to the pub for hours every day when he should have been at work) his alcoholism had killed him. Since then I've always thought that resort to common sense is the territory of rogues and charlatans. I want to make arguments and to be argued back at, thanks. I enjoy that. What I don't enjoy is lazy insults dressed up as argument. As above.

"...a breach of common courtesy." I thought it was supposed to be about protecting people...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 08:23 AM

Dropped a not in that second paragraph . "Not infected and infectious".

And the last paragraph should conclude …do not belong in there. Such things do nothing to benefit others, but rather they infringe on their right to be safe and feel safe. There will come a time when we can responsibly give up the precautions, but that shouldn't be determined by the selfish political calculations of a corrupt politician trying to save his skin. Solidarity!


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 08:11 AM

Questioning somebodies common sense when we disagree with them is neither nice nor nasty,
It's just common sense. Though the very term "common sense" is misleading, since in practice what is being referred to is individual judgements as to what we believe to be true.

The fact that a lateral test shows up negative isn't by any means a 100 per cent guarantee that we are infected and infectious, just an indication that we very likely aren't. And in any case that negative test doesn't show as to someone gets into a crowded tube train.

Failing to wear to wear in such circumstances seems to me a breach of common courtesy.

There are indeed times when we can feel obliged to do things that inconvenience other people or annoy them. Steve gives a set of examples, and most of them are things I've done, and would do again. You do them in the belief that they are in fact in the benefit of the very people you are inconveniencing or snnoying. Failing to wear a mask and social distance do not bein there


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 08:06 AM

SCS or science, you be the judge. In transitional times and places there will always be opposing forces. Shaw Common Sense never bowled me over.
I tried the Johnson's vaccine yesterday. If a varient specific vax is made it will probably take only a matter of 6 months. The learning curve for mrna is behind us.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 06:20 AM

SPB, speed limits, legal alcohol limits, driving on the left and the like are permanent fixtures that are there by general consensus. Until 2020 I hadn't even looked at a mask, let alone worn one. Yet before 2020 it was not regarded as "libertarian" to swan around without a mask on. If anyone ever gave it a second thought at all, not wearing a mask was the default, the norm. In fact, if I'd gone into Morrisons two Christmases ago with a mask on I'd have got some funny looks. Two years later, the morality police are defining not wearing a mask as "a lifestyle choice" (an irresponsible one at that) or as "libertarian." Well how did that change and who's in charge of making those judgements, let alone definitions?

The general consensus, even among the reluctant, has been to accept the restriction of the freedom to go around with our faces uncovered. I'd like to know now at what point it stops being "libertarian" to go back to the halcyon days of pre-2020. Who gets to decide the turning point? Whether you like it or not, there has to be a time when we have to go from compulsory to voluntary. Neither you, I, BWM nor Boris can finger that moment with any certainty. Of course we never know what's round the corner, a perfectly reasonable point to make. But we can't go on like this. As for millions of us being irresponsible, etc., 'twas ever thus, long before the pandemic, and we have to live with that and try to improve things. Long before this pandemic I was sanitising my hands every time I'd touched a supermarket trolley after I'd read a survey that said that 60% of Morrisons trolley handles sampled had actual traces of shit on them (other supermarkets are available...), but there's no policeman watching people coming out of the jacks to make sure their hands were washed. Quite right too. We live in an imperfect world, and coronavirus, like everything else that befalls us, can't be exempt forever from imperfect decisions.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 05:59 AM

Thereby hangs the tail.....

THat then becomes tantamount to victim blaming...

"We said you should exercise common sense, and because others around you who grudgingly take public health measures when they are obliged to have made you sick, then you only have yourself to blame. Don't blame us for allowing others to put you at risk" Same argument used by the gun nuts. "It is up to gun owners to choose not to massacre schoolkids, don't blame us for making it easy for them to do so."


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 05:27 AM

”Over the last few months the message from central government has changed from social responsibility to lifestyle choice. "we are not going to do anything proactive so it is up to the individual to decided whether or not they want to put the lives of others in the community at risk."

And, of course, the true purpose of the government’s approach is to provide themselves with an easy ‘get-out-of-jail-free’ card when it all goes tits-up and infection-rates are on the rise again - “You wanted ‘freedom’, we gave you what you wanted, we advised you to use your common sense, but you didn’t. It’s all your fault, nothing to do with us.”


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 05:09 AM

If a pub or restaurant is fitted with air condition/ventilation then the air breathed out by those sitting and eating will be mixed and distributed to all parts of the room. What benefit will be gained by putting on a mask to move around? It would be better, in my opinion, to keep the one way systems that helped to maintain social distancing. These seem to have been abandoned or completely ignored.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 05:08 AM

Over the last few months the message from central government has changed from social responsibility to lifestyle choice. "we are not going to do anything proactive so it is up to the individual to decided whether or not they want to put the lives of others in the community at risk."

Imagine this level of libertarianism applied to other laws....

We are not going to have mandatory speed limits - it will be up to the individual driver to divide whether or not they are prepared to put other peoples' children's ;lives at risk when driving past schools.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 05:01 AM

Well, as from Wednesday, my personal brand of common sense will consist of testing myself three times a week, keeping my jabs up to date, not going into pubs/restaurants (I want to see those numbers dropping a lot more first) and wearing a mask whenever required by the establishment I'm entering, but not otherwise. I believe that that is showing more than a reasonable level of responsibility to others and to myself whilst trying to get back to a normal life. As for my soapbox, I was reacting to someone who was questioning the common sense of people like me. Not nice.

Here's a bit of cod science for you. In two summers in a row there was no mask mandate, yet numbers went down to almost nothing. Since just before this Christmas there has been a mask mandate, yet omicron has ripped through the country almost untrammelled. Therefore masks are irrelevant. Well, we can all pick out the multiple factors that confound that conclusion. It simply isn't science. Yet the conclusions from the other side of this argument are equally easy to confound. And there's nothing more "soapboxy" than shouting a slogan instead of looking at the science.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 04:35 AM

Oops, pressed ‘go’ too soon…

Meant to go on to say that all four of us did a LFT yesterday, prior to our evening out. All negative.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 04:32 AM

Yes. You know me, Doug, and you should know by now that I don’t hide my light under a bushel, when something needs saying, I say it. He is fully aware of my feelings but, at the age of 40, the days when he did as his father told him are long gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 04:23 AM

... Mrs Backwoodsperson, my son and his partner, and I ...

... I saw only two people using masks when entering, moving around, leaving etc. Those two were Mrs Backwoodsperson and me.

... a substantial percentage of ‘the Great British Public’ have little or no common sense.


Have you discussed the lack of common sense with your son and his partner?

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 04:08 AM

”I don't sense there's too much appetite for chucking common sense among most people”

Unti last night I would have agreed. However, Mrs Backwoodsperson, my son and his partner, and I went out for dinner at a very busy pub/restaurant. In the two-and-a-half hours we were there, I saw only two people using masks when entering, moving around, leaving etc. Those two were Mrs Backwoodsperson and me.

I have a very strong belief that it’s a big, BIG mistake for the government to move to a policy which relies on ‘the Great British Public’s common sense’. The evidence, at least in this part of the Backwoods, seems to be that a substantial percentage of ‘the Great British Public’ have little or no common sense. Well others can do as they like, but we’re not the kind of people who think we know better than virologists, epidemiologists, and public health experts, and we will continue wearing our masks until we believe it’s no longer necessary, and at the moment I’m certain we’re still a long way from that.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 11:12 PM

Thanks, Stilly. Sigh.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 10:09 PM

Bear in mind that there is little or no rigorous science to show that masks are effective. Provocative but inconveniently true.

You need to get off of that soapbox. We're sick of it. It is provocative and it isn't true. Masks. Save. Lives.

CDC: Use Masks to Slow the Spread of COVID-19
Updated Aug. 12, 2021


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 07:48 PM

"... I don't sense there's too much appetite for chucking common sense among most people."

One man's common sense is another man's received wisdom. If your opinion is that mask-wearing is the right way ahead, then consider that that is just your opinion. In that circumstance, it ill-behoves you to castigate people who don't share it. Bear in mind that there is little or no rigorous science to show that masks are effective. Provocative but inconveniently true.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 07:39 PM

That is too much black and white. Now I enjoy the luxury, here in north Cornwall, of never having to use public transport (there isn't any that I could use), so maybe I'm a fine one to talk. I have used public transport, briefly, in London during the time when masks were voluntary. I didn't wear a mask. My view on masks is notoriously well-known on Mudcat (though I would never break the law and I always have a mask with me). I test myself at least three times a week. If I test myself negative on Monday morning, then go straight to Morrisons, I will have to wear a mask. I'm no danger to anyone and, as for me, I'm vaxxed up to the hilt. But I still have to wear a mask, because no-one who sees me knows all that. So if I don't wear a mask I'm, unjustifiably, not to be trusted. And I will wear one, cos that's the rules. But I'm doing it for no other good reason bar making other people feel comfortable. In my long life I've done lots of things that make people feel uncomfortable. I've been on demos and held up traffic, I've lain dead in the street to protest against nukes, I helped the Greenham women, I've organised pickets and I've threatened, as the union rep, my headteacher with industrial action. I had the music room closed in my school after finding blue asbestos in the ceiling, disrupting the school for a whole term. I don't mind making people feel uncomfortable. But I wear a mask not because I'm railing against authority if I don't. I'm wearing a mask to make individuals feel comfortable. I'm not protecting them from anything, and whether I'm not protecting myself is my bloody business. So roll on next Wednesday.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 06:55 PM

Dropping the requirement to wear masks on crowded tube trains and so at this point forth strikes me as pretty crazy. It may serve it's purpose as "Red Meat" for the potentially mutinous Tory backbenches, but I don't sense there's too much appetite for chucking common sense among most people.

But trusting on people to be sensible doesn't solve the problem of the selfish minority who throw over solidarity for misplaced "individual choice".

Freedom of choice ceases to apply when it involves putting others at risk and reducing their freedom to feel free.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 06:51 PM

Nigel, you also were early to report the child covid diabetes link some time ago. It appears to be serious.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 22 - 12:18 PM

In North Texas local health officials are predicting the Omicron cases will rise until the end of the month. But now that more people are using at home COVID tests, they won't know exactly how many cases are out there. Counties are starting to set up self-reporting websites that give enough information for follow-up and contact tracing. Trouble is, it's only in English. I'm not heading into the fray the day after the peak, but it's good to know there is an end in sight. But during this pandemic in my county alone in Texas there have been nearly a half-million cases and over 5,000 deaths. That's the population of a small town. That's the crash of 10 full super-sized jetliners. If it happened all at once I think everyone would be shocked. It would be nice if the doubters could be shocked into getting the vaccines. That would be 25% of the adult population in the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 11:49 AM

More on that:
LONDON/COPENHAGEN, Jan 21 (Reuters) - The UK Health Security Agency on Friday said it had designated a sub-lineage of the dominant and highly transmissible Omicron coronavirus variant as a variant under investigation.

BA.2, which does not have the specific mutation seen with Omicron that can be used as a proxy to easily distinguish it from Delta, is being investigated but has not been designated a variant of concern.


From: Reuters


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 11:34 AM

Just read that a sub-variant of Omicron has been identified in UK. No information yet as to whether it is more or less infectious, or is it is a more or less dangerous strain.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 08:01 AM

viral infections/fertlity


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 07:43 AM

There are more potential side effect claims of Covid 19, more than I could possibly keep track of.
Yet one more claim is a drop in fertile sperm counts for 60 days after infection. Its possible a cold could have had this effect but the research never went in that direction. The more research the more we will see but it all won't have significance.

The most controversial claim I share is that we kinda did this to ourselves, as a species that is. Bio weapon development never stopped. The holy grail to bio war was weaponizing the common cold. However I have no ambition to belabor or debate such notions.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 04:14 PM

Steve is right, there are no real time movies of an airborn virus clinging to an aerosol particle and being breathed in to infect a person. Some things are too small to film.
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/fauci-on-whether-there-is-evidence-of-airborne-coronavirus-spread-87157829795


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 03:02 PM

Yes there are. And there are many, many more unreported cases, including many symptomless ones. In this country millions of us have deleted the utterly useless test-and-trace app. If I catch the disease* I'll deal with it myself, following to the letter the guidelines given by the government. The one difference will be that no policeman will come knocking on my door to check up on me. It's time we were encouraged to take personal responsibility in all aspects of this. Time to edge back to normal.

*Negative test again this morning, which meant I could go out and about.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 12:15 PM

There are many unreported COVID deaths, this is understood in the medical and the actuarial community.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 11:51 AM

Quite right, Mrrzy. That distinction is usually buried here.

No-one is talking about "rounding" the numbers. We are discussing how the numbers we are given could be made more accurate. Inflating numbers in order to make us more cautious, etc., is just dishonest. You are misreading what is being discussed here. So what's new. By the way, the 70% increase in transmissibility (which is probably a good stab at it) has never been definitively put down to "airborne" or other transmission strategies in any percentage combination. Let's stick to the science that we actually know (which is what I've been saying all along).


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 09:49 AM

I am seeing articles differentiating Being in hospital *with* covid and being in hosppital *because of* covid, at least.

My uncle had covid when he died of ild age, for instance.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 09:40 AM

Manuel is willing to believe Facebook, Basil gets embroiled in denying and covering up even rumored infections, Polly tries to talk sense but is worried, Sybil puts things in a familiar frame of reference and Major Gowen soldiers on despite what he reads in the paper.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 09:10 AM

Denial of Omicron's 70% increase of airborn transmissabilty which is at the upper limit of any virus is -fine- if it makes you personally feel better. As for public policy truth is best.
Rounding up numbers is a respondsible thing to do in times of extreme spread and unknowns. Compared to China you have the freedom to deny or take serious precautions and not be forcibly locked in.

If you feel you have made a great discovery that downplays pandemic, embrace it. It is not going to harm anyone but yourself if your guess is 'Fawlty". The Pandemic is bigger than you.
Fawlty reasoning is Towering regarding the way people have reacted to the invisible threat.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 06:17 AM

Unfortunately, on this occasion I have to agree with Steve.

Any 'spin' is being applied by those supplying the figures.
As it stands at present, if a man gets knocked down by a bus, and dies in hospital, he is counted among the next day's Covid statistics if he has had a positive test in the last 28 days.

Any person, or government, basing their actions on the statistics provided needs to have a full and clear knowledge of how the statistics are made up, and any reasons that they may be biased in one direction or another.

Contrary to (some) popular beliefs, the sky is not falling.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 04:29 PM

Only yoooou...
can ever think things through
Only you,
can make your dreams come true

When you hold my gland, i understand
The BS that you do
You're your dream come true
You are a one and only you.



I have come to terms with the notion that you get the pandemic you get and not the one you prefer. A pandemic comes with all the human failings, victories and strategic side steps by a virus.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 04:06 PM

CVS said I had to wait until 6 months passed before a 4th booster.
Walgreens said I had to wait 5 months which is 3 days from now.
Based on this morning's corporate briefing to Walgreens pharmacies.
I'll give the Johnson's a try this time. Its mix and match time, like my socks.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 03:53 PM

Confirmation bias my arse. There is no justification for claiming, as has been claimed in this country for almost two years every day, that a disease that typically lasts about a week or ten days for nearly everyone who catches it has killed everyone who caught it within 28 days of their first symptoms. After ten days, it is not possible to ascribe deaths with any confidence at all directly to the virus. Some terminally weakened, of course, others by another illness that struck them when they were down, others who did not receive adequate treatment (the stories are legion). The current reported death rate as a proportion of omicron-infected people is just about equivalent to the death rate from flu. And even that is based not only on the bogus 28 days but also by neglecting the fact that flu is bloody obvious to everyone who catches it, whereas a third of people infected with coronavirus don't know they've got it and go uncounted, making the true pro rata death rate even lower.

It behoves you to avoid ill-considered accusations of confirmation bias when you clearly haven't thought the thing through. Throughout this pandemic I've often thought that your mask advocacy (which borders on the evangelical), along with your excoriating of those who have bothered to look at what little rigorous science there is on mask efficacy, has been tantamount to the precise thing that you're accusing me of. I've been polite enough not to accuse YOU.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic COVID-19
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 03:27 PM

Sensible to you because of confirmation bias.

They may have died of complications brought on by COVID. They may have been dying of something else anyway. Whatever spin you want to put on it, anyone who doesn't treat COVID like the deadly pandemic it is is a fool.


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