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BS: New news on the pandemic

Mrrzy 23 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM
Donuel 23 Mar 20 - 11:32 AM
Donuel 23 Mar 20 - 11:35 AM
Iains 23 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM
DMcG 23 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM
Iains 23 Mar 20 - 01:16 PM
DMcG 23 Mar 20 - 01:21 PM
DMcG 23 Mar 20 - 01:24 PM
Donuel 23 Mar 20 - 06:36 PM
Iains 24 Mar 20 - 04:58 AM
DMcG 24 Mar 20 - 05:36 AM
Iains 24 Mar 20 - 06:14 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 20 - 07:11 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM
Iains 24 Mar 20 - 07:29 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 20 - 07:32 AM
Iains 24 Mar 20 - 07:42 AM
Mrrzy 24 Mar 20 - 09:00 AM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 09:36 AM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 09:47 AM
Jeri 24 Mar 20 - 09:56 AM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 10:43 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 20 - 10:58 AM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 20 - 11:08 AM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 11:21 AM
Jeri 24 Mar 20 - 11:41 AM
Mrrzy 24 Mar 20 - 12:50 PM
Backwoodsman 24 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 12:59 PM
gillymor 24 Mar 20 - 01:56 PM
Mrrzy 24 Mar 20 - 04:23 PM
Iains 24 Mar 20 - 05:04 PM
keberoxu 24 Mar 20 - 05:08 PM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 05:12 PM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 05:23 PM
gillymor 24 Mar 20 - 05:24 PM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 05:46 PM
gillymor 24 Mar 20 - 05:50 PM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 05:54 PM
gillymor 24 Mar 20 - 05:58 PM
robomatic 24 Mar 20 - 06:17 PM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 06:22 PM
robomatic 24 Mar 20 - 06:28 PM
Donuel 24 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Mar 20 - 08:32 PM
Iains 25 Mar 20 - 04:21 AM
Senoufou 25 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM
mayomick 25 Mar 20 - 05:16 AM
mayomick 25 Mar 20 - 05:27 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Mar 20 - 05:38 AM

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Subject: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM

Apparently it kills, or can kill, your sense of smell:

https://www.boston.com/news/health/2020/03/23/coronavirus-sense-of-smell/amp

Also Ohio is canceling "nonessential abortions" -- what on earth is a cosmetic abortion?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:32 AM

It is elective surgury.

My sense of smell is off the charts. I'd hate to lose it.

The oldest Congress of US Senators in history is in grave danger

3 are down already


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 11:35 AM

https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/the-115th-congress-is-among-the-oldest-in-history/175/


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 12:15 PM

Almost two thirds of critically ill coronavirus patients are overweight and 37% are under 60, NHS audit reveals

    Excess weight against chest makes it harder for muscles to draw in deep breath
    Weak immune system allows COVID-19 to spread to lungs and cause pneumonia
    These two factors may explain why two thirds of ICU coronavirus patients obese
    Comes as coronavirus death toll in UK rises to 281 and infections sit at 5,600


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 12:37 PM

And in the general population?

"In the 2017 survey, it found that 28.7% of adults in England are obese and a further 35.6% are overweight, making a total of 64.3% who are either overweight or obese. 2 Of obese adults, around one in eight are morbidly obese (3.6% of all adults)"

Or almost two thirds. So the correlation of the virus and being overweight is uncertain at best.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:16 PM

You may be right, after all it   was the daily wail reporting. However the statistic is accurate, as is the explanation for the obese requiring intubation. The factor to carry away is that having the virus is a heightened risk if overweight


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:21 PM

But that is exactly the factor you cannot carry away. In *any* random sample of people from England you would expect about two thirds to be overweight. In so far as the figures show anything, they suggest being overweight has no bearing at all on your chances of survival. Of course, a formal analysis would be required, but the prima facie evidence suggests there is no connection.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 01:24 PM

It matters, by the way, because we don't want people thinking "I am not overweight so my risk is lower." As far as we can tell so far, it isn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Mar 20 - 06:36 PM

best case worst case scenario nyt


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 04:58 AM

Obesity carries inherant heightened health risks:
Heart disease and stroke.
High blood pressure.
Diabetes.
Cancer.
Gallbladder disease and gallstones.
Osteoarthritis.
Gout.
Breathing problems, such as sleep apnea

Many are associated with increased mortality from Covid-19
In Italy, 76.1% of patients who died from COVID-19 had hypertension, or high blood pressure.
One-third of COVID-19 patients who died in Italy had heart disease.
About one-quarter of people who died from the coronavirus in Italy had atrial fibrillation.
Diabetes was the second most common condition among COVID-19 patients who died: 35.5% had the illness.
Of those who died in Italy, 20.3% had active cancer in the past five years.
The study found that 18% of people who died had chronic kidney disease.
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease — or lung diseases such as chronic emphysema and bronchitis — was present in 13.2% of the people who died.
People who previously had a stroke made up 9.6% of COVID-19 patients who died in Italy.
In Italy, 6.8% of COVID-19 patients who died had dementia.Chronic liver disease was the 10th most common underlying condition.
My take on this is that if you are overweight you likely have one or more underlying conditions that rank you with a higher risk.
Statistically if you are obese youa re more likely to die.Reducing weight reduces the risk eg less pressure on the heart, perhaps no more diabetes (if type 2 etc.).................
*Type 2 = remission not cure it might be more accurate to say
My source article insisted on mixing up percentages and fractions- not me.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:36 AM

Again, Iains, you quote all those numbers without saying how common they are in the general population.

No one is saying being overweight or obese is good for you, or is without risks. But as yet there is insufficient evidence that you are more liable to become critically ill with coronavirus because of it. That evidence may arrive in time.

But for the moment: EVERYONE should act as if they are as susceptible as everyone else. Not developing the idea that 'that group is at greater risk than I am'. It is no exaggeration to say that attitude could cost lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:14 AM

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/which-groups-are-most-at-risk-from-the-coronavirus/


https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/22/819846180/study-calculates-just-how-much-age-medical-conditions
Statistically if you are obese you have underlying conditions
underlying conditions make you more vulnerable to covid-19
How many of those conditions are created,enhanced by obesity.
No one argues that cigarette smoking is good for you anymore!
Why is that?
Perhaps the same mindset should apply to obesity(apart from that created by medical conditions)
The reason 60$ of people on ventilators are obese is because gluttony
has a downside.
original report below.

https://www.icnarc.org/About/Latest-News/2020/03/22/Report-On-196-Patients-Critically-Ill-With-Covid-19   (open it up and extract the document inside)

Oxford University research found that moderate obesity, which is now common, reduces life expectancy by about 3 years, and that severe obesity, which is still uncommon, can shorten a person's life by 10 years. This 10 year loss is equal to the effects of lifelong smoking.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:11 AM

I haven't heard anything, in spite of being inundated with Coronavirus news like everyone else, that loss of smell or taste are symptoms of Coronavirus. As for acid environments, the pH up your nose as you inhale virus particles, or in your eyes or mouth, is quite likely to be the much same as everyone else's. I know you like to be different and stand out from the crowd, but I might suggest you stick to known facts when it comes to this issue. It's worrying enough without rumour-mongers putting their oar in.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:27 AM

Well I did just find this:

"The group wants doctors worldwide to tell their patients to isolate themselves for seven days if they begin to lose their sense of smell or taste, even if they do not have any other COVID-19 symptoms, The New York Times reported. Losing those senses is also a frequent symptom of the common cold, another, milder form of coronavirus.


RELATED: Here’s How to Tell If That Sneeze Is Coronavirus, the Flu or Just a Cold..."

Either you're a sucker who believes everything, or you can take cod-science with a pinch of salt. I mean, when you know that most colds are not caused by coronaviruses and that sneezing is not a symptom of Covid-19, would you believe anything else in the article? Losing your sense of smell happens when you get a cold or other upper respiratory tract infection when you already have the other miserable symptoms. Stick to the dry cough and fever is my advice...not that anyone should listen to my advice...


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:29 AM

The American Academy of Otolaryngology posted on its website this week that the amount of anecdotal evidence of anosmia, hyposmia (reduced ability to smell), and dysgeusia (reduced sense of taste) is significant enough that they are added to the list of screening tools for possible infection.

ENT surgeons in the UK also issued a statement urging that anosmia should be categorized as an important symptom that may indicate infection in an otherwise asymptomatic carrier, allowing clinicians at COVID-19 clinics to quickly rule out or confirm this subtle symptom.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:32 AM

I can easily persuade myself that my sense of smell isn't quite as good as it was yesterday. Let's stick to the dry cough and fever.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 07:42 AM

When the asymoptomatic are totally unknown in the population and testing is not general it makes sense to use every tool you can. Were this not the case Doctors would not say:
It is significant enough that they are added to the list of screening tools for possible infection.

Cod are best left in the sea I say - the stocks need to recover after EU depradations.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:00 AM

No abortions are elective, though. They are needed, not wanted.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:36 AM

Mrrzy I understand yet there are meaningful semantics on each side.
owzat for diplomacy? Unlike elective cosmetic surgury it is somthing that can't be postponed.

There are 4 distinct colds caused by a corona varient.

Rhinovirus: This bunch is most active in early fall, spring, and summer. They cause 10%-40% of colds. You'll feel plenty miserable when you catch one, but the good news is they rarely make you seriously sick

Coronavirus. These tend to do their dirty work in the winter and early spring. The coronavirus is the cause of about 20% of colds. There are more than 30 kinds, but only three or four affect people.

RSV and parainfluenza. These viruses cause 20% of colds. They sometimes lead to severe infections, like pneumonia, in young children.



Starbucks will pay employees for 30 days no matter what.


The Stock market has hit bottom and is now becoming a buying opportunity. butcha gotta bee quick.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:47 AM

We would agree that pandemic Corona has now become the #1 cold symptom virus n'est pas.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 09:56 AM

From WebMD:

"There are more than 200 [viruses]that can lay you low.

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

Rhinovirus
Coronavirus
RSV and parainfluenza

There are also a lot of viruses that doctors haven't identified. About 20%-30% of colds in adults are caused by these "unknown" bugs."


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:43 AM

Elon Musk is producing respirators. Some 3D printers are capable of doing so as well.

While Trump wants isolation to end as soon as Monday for the sake of the economy there is not a damn thing he can do about it. Its up to govenors and mayors.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 10:58 AM

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how you objectively assess whether someone's taste or smell has changed between not having coronavirus (when you wouldn't have thought of asking them about it) and having coronavirus. Leading questions, anyone? At least you can hear someone's cough and measure their temperature...The last thing we need is false positives.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:08 AM

"We would agree that pandemic Corona has now become the #1 cold symptom virus n'est pas."

No we wouldn't. The coronavirus that's causing this pandemic doesn't give you common cold symptoms. Stick to what we actually know.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:21 AM

no matter the POV won't save lives.


Trump to NYC "FUCK YOU" I'm keeping ventilators in Federal stock pile


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 11:41 AM

A couple of days ago "#presidentcuomo" was trending on Twitter. I don't know about him being president, but he's sure fulfilling the role Trump SHOUD be assuming. His behavior in this crisis will hopefully wake some of his idiot followers up.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:50 PM

You can only notice your own sense of smell, unless your roommate suddenly can't tell the milk is off.

No olympics.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:55 PM

It really isn’t helpful when the combed-over Orange-Utan currently infesting the White House spreads false information.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 12:59 PM

Since networks have dropped Trump's corona task force which turned into an election rally, so now FOX has an exclusive task force Trump town hall.
Dr. Fauci the world leading infectious disease expert has been REPLACED !

In his stead is the great and powerful Dr. OZ who plays a doctor on TV.    no shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 01:56 PM

I can't find any indication that Fauci has been replaced by Dr.Oz.
Is this another detour from reality?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 04:23 PM

India has shut down.

Texas has joined Ohio in banning cosmetic abortions, whatever they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:04 PM

Interesting article on superforecasting and how it likely shaped Britain's response. It is not often the Express is worth quoting but I have not seen this information elsewhere.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1259539/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-cases-deaths-boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-spt


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:08 PM

Gillymor,
this appears to be another Donuel satire;

Mr. Fauci spoke to the New York Daily News
protesting against the mutterings
about Fauci's absence from Trump's press conference Monday.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:12 PM

The Fox exclusive Trump Town Hall in the rose garden, had Dr Oz for questions, I watched it, they had no other Doctors. What is this detour from reality propoganda. You're the one from Texas where UN conspiracy theories are born. I'm from the beltway where reality goes to die..
As for the Task force with j kushner, who never appears, I don't know.

I am on a Fauci watch later today


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:23 PM

Anyone else missing the little things like a haircut, dentist, pancakes, chinese food, 7-11, WaWa, Subway...?,


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:24 PM

More good common sense from Texas

I figured Fauci's days were numbered, nobody upstages the blob and besides, highly competent, truth-telling, professionals aren't welcome in his administration.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:46 PM

Fauci is back right behind Trump in his fart vector.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:50 PM

btw, Fauci is on stage with Twit for the CV task force briefing taking place at this moment and, good news, it will all be over by Easter and the churches will be full and it will be beautiful. This dude's elevator doesn't go to the top floor.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:54 PM

Hitler would have loved manipulating a pandemic. I think Trump has been drinking liquid luck. Trump argued at his Town Hall how trading old decrepid lives for the economy is practicly a patriotic thing to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 05:58 PM

There is one senior citizen I can think of whose demise would greatly benefit this country and the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:17 PM

Watching NBC on broadcast TV and whitehouse.gov on the laptop. From my vantage point, the television feed is about ten minutes AHEAD of the White House feed. Is the delay I'm experiencing via the internet or is the white house putting a delay on its own feed?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:22 PM

NPR is even ahead of the TV feed.

I suspect each of us has a dark list we will not say aloud regarding the Covid 19 affliction.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 06:28 PM

I think my laptop internet feed was slow not because of a white house delay. Hitting 'refresh' changed the apparent time lag each time.

At least Dr. Fauci is back and still calling the believable shots. Trump looks as usual, like he's a big dumb face on a stick that is trying to control its expression to look serious and like it knows what's going on.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 08:07 PM

I mentioned it once before but it looks like this finding is real.
Men are twice as likly to die of Covid 19 than women. !!!!!!
I don't believe in vengeful wrath of god crap but it looks like older men have a target on their back.'


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 20 - 08:32 PM

That is a very premature conclusion. It may apply so far to Italy and China but not elsewhere. The majority in South Korea, very likely the country that monitors the best, is only very slightly skewed towards males. It's also worth noting that 48% of Chinese men smoke and just 2% of Chinese women. And it is a respiratory tract infection after all. You need to dig deeper before blurting out your simplistic claims.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:21 AM

Gender disparities are seen in South Korea as well, where men make up almost 62 percent of cases, and once an infection takes hold, it is 89 percent more likely to be fatal in men.

https://www.labroots.com/trending/microbiology/17118/susceptible-covid-19-women

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30526-2/fulltext

A still evolving story

In Italy 23% smoke,28% men, in the UK 15%
Italy has an older population.
Itally has greater resistance to antibiotics than the rest of Europe. This does not help when secondary respiratory infections occur.
Professor Walter Ricciardi, Scientific Adviser to Italy’s Minister of Health, reports, “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three.”


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 04:24 AM

Do those Chinese women inhale the men's smoke though Steve? Passive smoking. And from what I've heard on TV, the air pollution in the more industrial parts of China is dire.


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:16 AM

I don't want to sound non-alarmist but .......... https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1wK8PJ-yDvpa3DH-GGJ_3CRP6AhnJBd_I_agfZ33ML_0ewQ7P40AvcwSw
anyone ?


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: mayomick
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:27 AM

click click https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR1wK8PJ-yDvpa3DH-GGJ_3CRP6AhnJBd_I_agfZ33ML_0ewQ7P40AvcwSw


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Subject: RE: BS: New news on the pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 20 - 05:38 AM

Did anyone see the film footage of the London underground yesterday? There was also a news item on construction work in the city. As most of this construction seems to be non essential would it not make sense to call a halt to it?


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